This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own go

[Greatest I am]

This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

If you are going to use the word of God as evidence then you must also consider in Romans when Paul wrote "For the wages of sin is death..."

If you believe, as I do, that all of us who have had the chance at some point in our lives have sinned then really we deserve nothing less. But yet out of God's grace and forgiveness He allowed for a sacrifice in our place. 


Further I would argue that when God took the lives of people, or instructed Israel to, it was just and never without cause.

There was cause for sure, but was it a moral cause?

Tell us what is moral about God torturing King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it.

Scriptures say that it was because God was angry with David.

Would you kill a persons child because of your anger with the father?

How about the first born of Egypt?

Who was God angry with and who did he kill?

-----------

As to Jesus and his so called sacrifice.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Care to comment on the following.

 Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree with that statement?

You might want to listen to this Bishop before you answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

I think none of us know the truth. 

I agree, and that makes whatever the preachers tell us, --- lies.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

If you are going to use the word of God as evidence then you must also consider in Romans when Paul wrote "For the wages of sin is death..."

If you believe, as I do, that all of us who have had the chance at some point in our lives have sinned then really we deserve nothing less. But yet out of God's grace and forgiveness He allowed for a sacrifice in our place. 


Further I would argue that when God took the lives of people, or instructed Israel to, it was just and never without cause.

Killing someone for stealing/adultery/any one of the many stupid things that the bible says are sins is kind of a dick move.

Indeed.

Strange how the scriptures say that an eye for an eye is close to good justice yet God takes life for a lot less than us taking a life.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Has anyone actually had their mind changed by this guy? Does his odd version of Gnosticism appeal to anyone but himself?

Anyway, good job, you discovered an issue that Christian theologians have looked at for centuries, with various answers. Maybe you should look at what they've said about the issue.

Gnostic Christians and other free thinkers make up a good quarter of the population. You might wonder why we denounce idol worship and losing ones thinking ability by embracing the supernatural on no evidence at all.

What most say about this issue, and what you seem to like, goes something like this from our friend above.

"you cannot call him murderous because he cannot kill any human unlawfully by definition."

Note the moral and intellectual dissonance.

Do as I say and not as I do is a phrase that we should throw back in God's face as quite immoral.

As to Gnostic Christianity. It is a superior theology than the mainstream religions.

We are Universalists who have tied the equality of all souls people to righteousness.

The mainstream are homophobic and misogynous, so tell us which religion looks more moral.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

We should be more thankful that God gives us rainbows when he could just as easily be drowning everybody. Meanwhile, the ways of a perfect being such as God may be hard to understand for imperfect being such as humans, and you should probably stop trying.

Wow. A good way to do as scriptures say. Here is one of the few bits of wisdom within it.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You promote ignorance while your bible doers the opposite.

Are you that afraid of having a look at your genocidal son murdering God?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

I know I will alienate myself from both the atheists and religious types here, but the God I believe in created space and time out of nothing - in essence, creating every single thought you could have.  It's asinine, given that, to project anything close to your idea of right and wrong to such a being.

Yet scriptures say we have God's own moral sense and should be able to do so.

Genesis --- They have become as Gods in the knowing of good and evil.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Why do you think you can figure out what an infinite being is interested in?

That is an excellent question for theists.

All that is said of God by theists is speculative nonsense. Those who argue aga9nst them are allowed then to use other speculative nonsense to put against what they say.

That reciprocity is fair play is it not?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL

How do you know that God isn't suicidal?

I cannot know, but if he was or is, he has had eons to off his immoral self.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Presupposing that its attention could be finite or divided assumes the limits of a material being. This thing would be literally unlimited by any standard we could comprehend.

Yet he seem limited in his ability to show himself or have a true son instead of the hybrid chimera he supposedly gave us.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Presupposing that its attention could be finite or divided assumes the limits of a material being. This thing would be literally unlimited by any standard we could comprehend.

I agree, and my original post was not meant to reject the possibility that God cares deeply about humanity, too.  I obviously believe that God cares for humanity at least in some aspect, but I don't particularly think He/She/It cares about things like premarital sex ... though I could certainly be wrong.

The point I was trying to make, which I think you'd probably agree with, as that a being that created EVERYTHING we are aware of would, by definition, have a "mind" (I believe God to be completely without physical form and literally a "floating" consciousness) that works in ways we couldn't even fathom.

If a Trinitarian, then you would have to see 3 consciousness'. Right?

And if only one consciousness, can you really picture Jesus torturing and killing babies like God is shown to do in the King David myth?

If God is more than one consciousness, would Jesus not have argued with Yahweh against the torture and killing of an innocent baby?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

No, I don't agree with Jesus or any of his "rules" (normal Jew).

??

Most Jews do, --- to some extent.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

The whole point is that Jesus Christ volunteered to take the death penalty even though he lived a perfect, sinless life on behalf of us guilty sinners. 

As far as Satan goes, it was the devil himself who in Genesis 3 tempted Eve by arguing that people could have as much knowledge as God and be righteous on their own (hence having the knowledge of good and evil), and as such cause Adam/Eve eat from the fruit of the Garden and thus lead to sin entering the world.  We can't be good autonomously and we all deserve condemnation because the Bible says that even our good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God if not done in faith.  This is why we need Christ's righteousness.  He came to save guilty sinners by volunteering.  We don't want justice because that sends us all to hell, which is why we need grace! 

I see that you have yet to read your bible. Does this sound like Jesus volunteered?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Jesus volunteering or not is irrelevant to the issue of you profiting from the murder of an innocent man.

The fact that you do not recognize that shows how your religion has corrupted your morals.

As to Eden, why did God put Satan in the garden knowing that Eve could not resist God's own deception power running through Satan.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

We should be more thankful that God gives us rainbows when he could just as easily be drowning everybody. Meanwhile, the ways of a perfect being such as God may be hard to understand for imperfect being such as humans, and you should probably stop trying.

Wow. A good way to do as scriptures say. Here is one of the few bits of wisdom within it.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You promote ignorance while your bible doers the opposite.

Are you that afraid of having a look at your genocidal son murdering God?

Regards
DL

I wasn't promoting ignorance, I was just saying God works in mysterious and complex ways which you either oversimplify or don't understand. 

Yet you can somehow understand mysterious ways that include genocide.

Only the vilest immorality embraces any God who uses genocide.

Who is your number two hero? Hitler?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

The whole point is that Jesus Christ volunteered to take the death penalty even though he lived a perfect, sinless life on behalf of us guilty sinners. 

As far as Satan goes, it was the devil himself who in Genesis 3 tempted Eve by arguing that people could have as much knowledge as God and be righteous on their own (hence having the knowledge of good and evil), and as such cause Adam/Eve eat from the fruit of the Garden and thus lead to sin entering the world.  We can't be good autonomously and we all deserve condemnation because the Bible says that even our good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God if not done in faith.  This is why we need Christ's righteousness.  He came to save guilty sinners by volunteering.  We don't want justice because that sends us all to hell, which is why we need grace! 

I see that you have yet to read your bible. Does this sound like Jesus volunteered?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Jesus volunteering or not is irrelevant to the issue of you profiting from the murder of an innocent man.

The fact that you do not recognize that shows how your religion has corrupted your morals.

As to Eden, why did God put Satan in the garden knowing that Eve could not resist God's own deception power running through Satan.

Regards
DL

Look at Galatians 1:4 - Jesus did give himself to be a savior for us - him being foreordained to die for us does not negate the fact that he suffered for us willingly.

As far as why God did what he did in Eden, all I can say is that his ways are higher than ours.  But the point is that sin exists in the world because it is our fault as humans, not God's.  Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, and we see the consequences of that decision in all the suffering around us.

As I said above, voluntary or not, it is immoral for you to put your burden on an innocent victim.

If you cannot recognize that simple moral truth, you show how your religion has corrupted your morals.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Satan loves those who only see the prize and ignore their immorality for it.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

[  Our fine can be paid in full and God's legal case against us can be dismissed right out of court.  It is truly good news.

Only to those with satanic morals.

I put a question or two in post 19. Care to opine on your use of a scapegoat.

Would you punish an innocent son while letting the guilty one off the hook?

Regards
DL

The whole point is that Jesus Christ volunteered to take the death penalty even though he lived a perfect, sinless life on behalf of us guilty sinners.  

As far as Satan goes, it was the devil himself who in Genesis 3 tempted Eve by arguing that people could have as much knowledge as God and be righteous on their own (hence having the knowledge of good and evil), and as such cause Adam/Eve eat from the fruit of the Garden and thus lead to sin entering the world.  We can't be good autonomously and we all deserve condemnation because the Bible says that even our good works are like filthy rags in the sight of God if not done in faith.  This is why we need Christ's righteousness.  He came to save guilty sinners by volunteering.  We don't want justice because that sends us all to hell, which is why we need grace!  

I see that you have yet to read your bible. Does this sound like Jesus volunteered?

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Jesus volunteering or not is irrelevant to the issue of you profiting from the murder of an innocent man.

The fact that you do not recognize that shows how your religion has corrupted your morals.

As to Eden, why did God put Satan in the garden knowing that Eve could not resist God's own deception power running through Satan.

Regards
DL

Look at Galatians 1:4 - Jesus did give himself to be a savior for us - him being foreordained to die for us does not negate the fact that he suffered for us willingly.

As far as why God did what he did in Eden, all I can say is that his ways are higher than ours.  But the point is that sin exists in the world because it is our fault as humans, not God's.  Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, and we see the consequences of that decision in all the suffering around us.

As I said above, voluntary or not, it is immoral for you to put your burden on an innocent victim.

If you cannot recognize that simple moral truth, you show how your religion has corrupted your morals.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Satan loves those who only see the prize and ignore their immorality for it.

Regards
DL

The scriptures you cite show how serious the issue of sin is.  Fortunately, God showed us grace in the Lord Jesus Christ, so that all who believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.  We all have an individual account that will be decided before a holy God, and as such, we must have atonement for it.

As I said, Satan loves those like you who would do the immoral thing and just look at the prize.

Only fools will think a God would condemn you just to turn around and die for you, even while you know God cannot die.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

As I said, Satan loves those like you who would do the immoral thing and just look at the prize.

Only fools will think a God would condemn you just to turn around and die for you, even while you know God cannot die.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Regards
DL

Out of curiosity, as a "Gnostic Christian," do you even believe Satan exists?  If not, why are you using him as arguments against my position?

Regardless, Ingersoll is just a man, but let's look at what the word of God has to say in 2 Corinthians 5:21: "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."  Seems pretty clear to me. 

In my mind, the foolish thing is to call oneself a Christian and deny what Jesus said in Matthew 20:28 that "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Jesus was a sinner like all of us are.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

That aside.

So now you have God asking for and accepting a ransom, to change his usual justice of punishing the evil, to punishing the good.

IOW, God can be bought off.

Again, you ignore your bible.

http://biblehub.com/psalms/49-7.htm
http://biblehub.com/psalms/49-8.htm

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

If you do not agree, it is because Satan has you firmly in hand.

" do you even believe Satan exists?"

No. There is no supernatural or delusional thinking in Gnostic Christian beliefs.

We do not believe in talking serpents and donkeys or a genocidal son murdering God.

Our minds and morals have never been that corrupted. We seek truth. Not lies.

Regards
DL