Do Prisons Without Air-Conditioning Constitute 'Cruel and Unusual Punishment'?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

Not quite, but anything short of Norwegian-style prisons is.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No, but it's an inhumane way to house people in most* of the continental United States.

*There are some places in the United States that are temperate enough that no one other than people with serious health conditions or lack of access to outdoor spaces should need air conditioning. These include all of Upstate New York, for example. Unfortunately, most modern construction ignores passive ventilation and does not even attempt to adapt itself to the conditions of the local environment. Anything built in this fashion needs to be air conditioned as a matter of public health, no matter where it is built.

In my experience (which obviously isn't representative, being almost entirely from the Southwest), 90% of the use of air conditioning in the US is unnecessary, wasteful, harmful to the environment, and actually makes me feel worse than I'd be if the building was left to its natural temperature.

I'm not saying AC isn't necessary in the cases relevant here, just felt like I should point this out.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Prisons in general are "Cruel and Unusual Punishment."

Not quite, but anything short of Norwegian-style prisons is.

Prison isn't daycare, it's a prison.

That's not an argument.

     The point is that these people have committed serious offenses that have led to them losing some of the rights that people are normally accorded. It's not meant to be a walk in the park.

One would think being deprived of one of the three fundamental rights recognized in the Declaration of Independence should be punishment enough of its own, without adding further torments into the mix.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No, but it's an inhumane way to house people in most* of the continental United States.

*There are some places in the United States that are temperate enough that no one other than people with serious health conditions or lack of access to outdoor spaces should need air conditioning. These include all of Upstate New York, for example. Unfortunately, most modern construction ignores passive ventilation and does not even attempt to adapt itself to the conditions of the local environment. Anything built in this fashion needs to be air conditioned as a matter of public health, no matter where it is built.

In my experience (which obviously isn't representative, being almost entirely from the Southwest), 90% of the use of air conditioning in the US is unnecessary, wasteful, harmful to the environment, and actually makes me feel worse than I'd be if the building was left to its natural temperature.

I'm not saying AC isn't necessary in the cases relevant here, just felt like I should point this out.

I agree, but if you're in a poorly ventilated building then you are probably going to be uncomfortable no matter what, and lacking air conditioning during even mild heat would be brutal. Consider how many office buildings in the US lack something as basic as windows that easily can be open and shut. It's ridiculous, but people in this country tend to believe that they are entitled to every cloistered comfort that ample natural resources, cheap energy, technology, and easy credit has made available to them. Which is the only way that the Sun Belt as we know it can exist in the first place.

What temperature is most appropriate is another matter: I am most comfortable at close to 78 degrees when I am sedentary, so the standard 65 or so that public buildings, offices, and commercial spaces tend to maintain is not pleasant for me. Then again, I am usually the first person to add a layer in my office, so my opinion is nowhere near the (obviously wrong, wasteful, and seriously misguided) national consensus on this question.

Very true. The lack of large, openable and/or sensibly placed windows is one of the things that really struck me when I moved in here (my own apartment has a large bay window, but it's a window that faces an inner courtyard in a very tall building, so I don't get very little air or sunlight from it and it really feels like I'm in a bubble).

I'm also more comfortable around 25°C. I actually tend to turn on heating when temperature gets below 22 (which I know is not great either, but I feel like I make up for it by never turning on the AC at any time of the year).

[Antonio the Sixth]

No it doesn't. Criminals lose all of their rights once they are incarcerated. Since they have committed a crime, they no longer have rights.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ideally, the best response to any bad deed is to sit down with the person responsible and make them understand why what they did was wrong and the suffering that it has caused. The guilt of knowing what you've done should then be punishment enough in and of itself, and it would actually make people better.

Of course, that almost never works in practice, both because few people have the patience to try and because most people are not interested in questioning the morality their own actions. The existence of prisons is a testament to this failure of humanity's ability to self-correct. They're a necessary evil, but they should never, ever be mistaken for a positive good, and alternatives should be sought whenever possible.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The existence of prisons is a testament to this failure of humanity's ability to self-correct. They're a necessary evil, but they should never, ever be mistaken for a positive good, and alternatives should be sought whenever possible.

And yet you say concerning the death penalty:

Never in any circumstance.

For truly incorrigible criminals, the death penalty is theoretically a potential solution, tho in practice, one that is unlikely to be widely applied.

There is no such thing as a truly incorrigible criminal. Only a lack of time, will, and ability to make people see the error of their ways.

[Antonio the Sixth]

There is no such thing as a truly incorrigible criminal. Only a lack of time, will, and ability to make people see the error of their ways.

There are mental illnesses that make that impossible for some people.  There are many criminals that are incapable of seeing the error of their ways.  Complete narcissists and those unable to feel any empathy spring to mind.

I'm pretty sure most mental illness can either be treated or at least dealt with in a way that allows people to avoid these situations. I admit I don't know much about narcissism and APD, but I really hope there would be at least a theoretical solution that doesn't involve locking up people for life. It's definitely unsettling because I think the ability to feel empathy is a fundamental part of what makes us human, and many things break down when you relax this assumption.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Prisoners should be treated with air conditioning and the starving children in Africa get what?

There are problems in Africa, therefore there are none here!

I don't want to hear any whining from those starving kids an Africa when there's people getting their heads cut off in Syria.

I love how the same people who say that are also those who whine to no end about how unfair it is that "job creators" pay so much in taxes.