Ireland General Discussion

[ag]

Given that some sort of border controls with Britain will presumably now be set up, is there any chance of Ireland joining the Schengen area?

Not unless whatever remains of the UK joins it, or unless the border goes (which is unlikely, though a good deal less unlikely today than it was before last Friday).

We are not going to lock ourselves in a cage for the benefit of France and Germany as part of a spat with Britain. Good will towards the EU is not all that high here and Brexit is capable of doing much more damage to us than to any other EU country already without making things even worse.

Well, but Ireland could insist on the UK joining Schengen as part of the EU negotiations. Would they want to do it?

In general, this is the best chance Irish have had in many decades of getting concessions from the Brits. What would you want?

[ag]

Given that some sort of border controls with Britain will presumably now be set up, is there any chance of Ireland joining the Schengen area?

Not unless whatever remains of the UK joins it, or unless the border goes (which is unlikely, though a good deal less unlikely today than it was before last Friday).

We are not going to lock ourselves in a cage for the benefit of France and Germany as part of a spat with Britain. Good will towards the EU is not all that high here and Brexit is capable of doing much more damage to us than to any other EU country already without making things even worse.

Well, but Ireland could insist on the UK joining Schengen as part of the EU negotiations. Would they want to do it?

In general, this is the best chance Irish have had in many decades of getting concessions from the Brits. What would you want?

We are physically separated from the Schengen zone in any case - the only direct connections are by air or ferry, any land travel has to go through the non-Schengen UK. The disadvantages of joining far outweigh the advantages for us.

Assuming England joins, what ARE the disadvantages for you?

[ag]

Given that some sort of border controls with Britain will presumably now be set up, is there any chance of Ireland joining the Schengen area?

Not unless whatever remains of the UK joins it, or unless the border goes (which is unlikely, though a good deal less unlikely today than it was before last Friday).

We are not going to lock ourselves in a cage for the benefit of France and Germany as part of a spat with Britain. Good will towards the EU is not all that high here and Brexit is capable of doing much more damage to us than to any other EU country already without making things even worse.

Well, but Ireland could insist on the UK joining Schengen as part of the EU negotiations. Would they want to do it?

In general, this is the best chance Irish have had in many decades of getting concessions from the Brits. What would you want?

We are physically separated from the Schengen zone in any case - the only direct connections are by air or ferry, any land travel has to go through the non-Schengen UK. The disadvantages of joining far outweigh the advantages for us.

Assuming England joins, what ARE the disadvantages for you?

This is slightly circular, but the disadvantage is that the UK is not in Schengen and we do not want a heavily-policed border between NI and RoI under any circumstances.

If the UK was in Schengen, that would be irrelevant, but the danger of insisting that the UK join Schengen during negotiations is that if the negotiations then collapse, we end up being expected to join Schengen anyway as a demonstration of some sort of kamikaze European solidarity.

UK has a lot more to loose if negotiations collapse. So, negotiations will not collapse.

[ag]

Given that some sort of border controls with Britain will presumably now be set up, is there any chance of Ireland joining the Schengen area?

Not unless whatever remains of the UK joins it, or unless the border goes (which is unlikely, though a good deal less unlikely today than it was before last Friday).

We are not going to lock ourselves in a cage for the benefit of France and Germany as part of a spat with Britain. Good will towards the EU is not all that high here and Brexit is capable of doing much more damage to us than to any other EU country already without making things even worse.

Well, but Ireland could insist on the UK joining Schengen as part of the EU negotiations. Would they want to do it?

In general, this is the best chance Irish have had in many decades of getting concessions from the Brits. What would you want?

We are physically separated from the Schengen zone in any case - the only direct connections are by air or ferry, any land travel has to go through the non-Schengen UK. The disadvantages of joining far outweigh the advantages for us.

Assuming England joins, what ARE the disadvantages for you?

This is slightly circular, but the disadvantage is that the UK is not in Schengen and we do not want a heavily-policed border between NI and RoI under any circumstances.

If the UK was in Schengen, that would be irrelevant, but the danger of insisting that the UK join Schengen during negotiations is that if the negotiations then collapse, we end up being expected to join Schengen anyway as a demonstration of some sort of kamikaze European solidarity.

UK has a lot more to loose if negotiations collapse. So, negotiations will not collapse.

That assumes that everyone is thinking rationally.

I think this is a pretty reasonable assumption for the actual negotiators.