transgender individuals in the girls HS locker room?

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Why do people who have obviously been to one high school's locker room assume every single locker room operates in the exact same way?  I've seen a myriad of locker room configurations and if I had a 14 year old son or daughter I wouldn't want transexual teenagers in their locker rooms.

This transexual stuff is getting carried too far.  Even as a heterosexual male I think the sexuality thing in high school is really over blown.  With the benefit of a few years hind sight there is no girl I liked or dated in high school that I would date now.  Acting like people have it all figured out when they are 16 is just crazy.  Even if my kid thought they were transexual I would tell them to grow up and learn a lot more about themselves before running around saying they want to use the girl's locker room.

Given the abysmal test scores in America I'm shocked that the most important thing some people can worry about is letting human beings with penises use the women's locker room.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Why do people who have obviously been to one high school's locker room assume every single locker room operates in the exact same way?  I've seen a myriad of locker room configurations and if I had a 14 year old son or daughter I wouldn't want transexual teenagers in their locker rooms.

This transexual stuff is getting carried too far.  Even as a heterosexual male I think the sexuality thing in high school is really over blown.  With the benefit of a few years hind sight there is no girl I liked or dated in high school that I would date now.  Acting like people have it all figured out when they are 16 is just crazy.  Even if my kid thought they were transexual I would tell them to grow up and learn a lot more about themselves before running around saying they want to use the girl's locker room.

Given the abysmal test scores in America I'm shocked that the most important thing some people can worry about is letting human beings with penises use the women's locker room.

Tell me more about your unique insight from this highly unique background!

Also, what a cop-out last sentence. So the reward for getting better test answers is hormones or something? Lmao

I am merely saying this BS amongst heterosexuals that high school is the greatest days of your life is garbage.  Maybe you are right.  Maybe high school life would have been grand for me and held so much more long term meaning if I had done it as a tranny.

I don't care what your orientation is nor what physical genitalia you have.  High school is BS.  If you define yourself or do any substantial sexual exploration in high school your life is pathetic.  The things I have seen and the people that I have met since then really put that whole sad limited confined and ignorant portion of my life into perspective.  I don't know anyone who even spoke to their senior prom date three years later.  It was all meaningless BS.  I think what adults told me was a pathetic snow job.  The best advice I could have gotten is don't take any of this crap seriously.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

I don't understand this stupid obsession with group showering.

It's not an obsession.  It's just a cost effective mechanism employed in certain settings.  By the way never join the military if this ruffles your feathers.  The stories my friends told me from boot camp would give you a heart attack.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

                                                BAN IT

Or we could just have regular locker rooms like the high school I went to and let people explore their sexuality on their own time.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Military ≠ High School gym class

I agree.  Which is why I support transgender people in the military and I support the historical status quo in high schools.

Doors aren't expensive...

Again there is the assumption you have seen every configuration of locker room and can take two seconds to come up with a solution.  Be open minded man.  Just pause for a minute and ponder the possibility you haven't seen everything.



Where do you just put the inexpensive doors?

Well personally I mostly get that this is complex intellectually, I have bathed with people I know to be gay, I don't care, I have been in public shower, while a cleaning lady began to clean the floors, I didn't care neither did the other mens in the showers, we all just ignored her. If I had to shower together with naked women, I would do the same as when I shower with naked men; ignore them. So this person could share locker room with the girls, the boys, having a private one or the school could have a uni-sex locker room. But you people live in another cultural context, so I get it's complex for you people.

And I graduated from college.  That doesn't mean most people graduate from college.  You can't expect the majority of people to live their life the way you do.  You need to be a bit more open minded.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Well personally I mostly get that this is complex intellectually, I have bathed with people I know to be gay, I don't care, I have been in public shower, while a cleaning lady began to clean the floors, I didn't care neither did the other mens in the showers, we all just ignored her. If I had to shower together with naked women, I would do the same as when I shower with naked men; ignore them. So this person could share locker room with the girls, the boys, having a private one or the school could have a uni-sex locker room. But you people live in another cultural context, so I get it's complex for you people.

VS

Forcing kids to shower together, trans or no trans, is pretty grim. Just cough up for some individual stalls, wtf.

Who's right and who's crazy?  Forum, you decide.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

as crabcake said - forcing a trans girl to use the boys' locker room (or vice versa) is pretty much the definition of "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" (udhr art. 5)

That view will never be mainstream in the United States.  Plenty of transexuals have for decades happily lived their lives according to their unaltered external physical appearance.  I realize they don't represent the entire group of what has come to be known as transexual but it clearly doesn't kill someone to spend four years of their early life conforming to their external gender.

First world problems.

mmh. transgender people, as we all know, literally don't exist outside of "developed" countries.

Why are you being so hyperbolic?  Is it because you know they are right?

Most children in the third world are lucky if they have the opportunity to attend and graduate from a high school.  And the assumption those third world high schools even have locker rooms let alone showers is absurd.  This topic really is the very definition of a first world problem.

Paying for a child to go to high school is often the biggest expense for a third world family.  Third world children who are lucky enough to attend a high school don't come home and start complaining because they weren't allowed to express their sexuality at school.  You and a great many people are going to have to come to terms with the fact certain corners of the first world are just hypersexual and we aren't going to cater to their every whim.  Heterosexual, homosexual, transexual, whateversexual kids need to focus on academics in high school and leave the sex stuff for their free time.

This thread is so detached from the real world I don't know what to say.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

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the general issue of forcing trans youth to conform to their birth-designated gender is one of the biggest, if not the biggest problems facing trans people everywhere. it can take a lot of forms.

Please stop.  Arguing with strawmen only makes you look childish.  We are ONLY talking about the very narrow situation of taking your clothes off and exposing your genitals to other human beings.  Many if not most third world high schools don't have locker rooms let alone communal showers so this is a first world problem.

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are…
are you implying that lgbt+ people in the "third world" don't care about discrimination?
(i mean, not that the rest of this mangled heap of nonsense is much better, but…)

I'm not implying anything.  I am saying, to literate people who can read, that regardless of sexual orientation exploring and expressing your sexuality is not a priority in many third world high schools and is actually actively discouraged.  In Africa there is the fear of HIV/AIDs, in all third world countries there is the fear of girls getting pregnant, in many first world countries there are culturally conservative pressures that demand girls be asexaul, etc.  This may come as a shock to you but there are other people other that transexuals on the planet and for most of them they live far more sexually restrictive lives than transexuals in first world countries.  Again, the narrow issue being discussed in this thread is a first world problem despite all the strawmen you keep throwing out.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

It's a great argument isn't it? You care about Issue A. You heartless monster!? Do you know how many sick kids in Africa who are hungry right now!!!

Unfortunately, this point actually negates essentially every political issue ever discussed in the western world. What, you actually care about healthcare reform/election law/the tax code? DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY KIDS STARVE IN AFRICA, YOU INSENSITIVE PRICK

I presume also you walk up to bereaved widows and tell them to get a grip, because some people in Nepal lost their entire families in the earthquake; and if a man loses his house in a fire you congratulate him because he wasn't rounded up in the Holocaust and you are physically angered every time somebody complains about a minor ailment because they aren't being eaten by a mountain lion?

OMG!  Can people on this forum not read?  You are right.  I wouldn't discuss this issue... if we were in AFRICA!  I am not.  I assume you aren't either.  You ignore all my posts discussing the issue because of one post saying people in Africa don't discuss the issue.  Sorry for being factual.  Should I lie the next time?

Look guys regardless of what country you are in no one is going to rip out a perfectly good communal shower to install a bunch of private stalls on the off chance there may be a transexual student who comes through the school one day and happens to want to shower with the girls.  Maybe a handful of rich school districts on the left coast might but that will be notable because it is the exception not the rule.  Argue on the internet all you want but unless you are donating millions to school district budgets it ain't gonna happen.  And no it will never be wide spread practice in the United States to let anything with a penis jump in the shower with 14 year old girls on government property.  Get a grip.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

What's the point? I've made my points on this thread before, and you've merely vomited the same inane nonsense.

That's one way to make friends and win respect.

Compulsory group showers are weird and creepy relics that should be phased out, like how removing asbestos is expensive but has to be done. If schools don't have the resources to do that that's a matter of funding.

Obviously this is big issue for you.  My advice is to go down to your local council meeting and voice your opinion.  In Texas and Arizona we have school boards editing school books to brain wash teenagers with political propaganda.  Spending millions to rip out perfectly functional showers is not a priority for me nor most tax payers in my country.  If it is a priority for you in your country I can respect that.  You are welcome to take up the cause over there with your taxpayer funds.  I'm not going to stop you or campaign against you.  Good luck.

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Society does not care about gender separate from sex. It never has. The idea of gender as separate from sex is only like 40 years old at most. If you want to be a different gender, ie define yourself by a random set of stereotypes, fine go ahead. Your sex is the same though. Locker rooms, sports, prisons, etc are divided by sex, not gender.

Yeah that is kind of the problem people run into.  At a certain point you have to just stop having a society.  In fact stop having a language.  If up can all of a sudden mean down then everything just loses it's meaning.  Society is just a commonly agreed upon way of doing things.  And the thing is keeping naked 15 year olds with vaginas separate from naked 17 year olds with penises is pretty much a universal fact of human societies that have clothes.  And no society supports letting one penis roam around a room of naked vaginas unless it is a harem or brothel.

Societies do evolve.  I have no idea what human beings will be doing 200,000 years from now.  But this kind of force feeding of weird ideas has been done before with disastrous consequences.  Look at Africa.  Some hypothesize the global spread of HIV is a consequence of European colonization of Africa.  Recent genetic tests indicate HIV has been around for quite some time and caused no large scale problems.

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http://scitechdaily.com/genetic-history-hiv-reveals-pandemics-origins/

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Must be a weird mindset to reduce everyone you meet to their disembodied genitals, Schadenfreude. I'm afraid I don't quite follow your train of thought with the whole HiV analogy (accepting trans people is equivalent to The Scramble for Africa?), although at a guess that train has long since derailed.

Have fun arguing with your strawmen.  If someone wearing a hat dark glasses and an overcoat walks up to a group of women and flashes their penis at them they will describe the person as a "man" when the police ask for a description.  If you don't like that move to Mars with the 2 other weirdos on the planet who would say "I didn't have time to really get to know the person so I couldn't possibly comment on a description."

[Taco Truck 🚚]

Must be a weird mindset to reduce everyone you meet to their disembodied genitals, Schadenfreude. I'm afraid I don't quite follow your train of thought with the whole HiV analogy (accepting trans people is equivalent to The Scramble for Africa?), although at a guess that train has long since derailed.

Have fun arguing with your strawmen.  If someone wearing a hat dark glasses and an overcoat walks up to a group of women and flashes their penis at them they will describe the person as a "man" when the police ask for a description.  If you don't like that move to Mars with the 2 other weirdos on the planet who would say "I didn't have time to really get to know the person so I couldn't possibly comment on a description."

Yes they will say "man". They won't say "a penis flashed me" as you seem to think genitals are synonyms with people. I'm surprised you didn't describe a group of vaginas being flashed and having to talk to a policepenis.

Is word salad yummy?