Rep. John Lewis "I do not consider the president-elect to be legitimate"

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

Maybe I am missing something here. I am all for Democrats openly resisting denouncing Trump's presidency, but the ceaseless focus on calling him "illegitimate" is just inane.

It's like the "not my president" BS. Yes he is your president (or will be in a few days), just as Putin would be your president if you were Russian. Refusing to acknowledge the fact means you won't be able to fight him as effectively.

Given the way the Trump and his future administration have signaled their intention to bend over for him, one could argue that Putin effectively will be our president.

-This comment is badly detached from reality. Just look at Trump's statements on the campaign trail and Tillerson's statements to the Senate committee.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Maybe I am missing something here. I am all for Democrats openly resisting denouncing Trump's presidency, but the ceaseless focus on calling him "illegitimate" is just inane.

It's like the "not my president" BS. Yes he is your president (or will be in a few days), just as Putin would be your president if you were Russian. Refusing to acknowledge the fact means you won't be able to fight him as effectively.

Given the way the Trump and his future administration have signaled their intention to bend over for him, one could argue that Putin effectively will be our president.

Sounds about right.

[Intell]

Trump certainly does lack the legitimacy steaming from the popular vote win, while still being legally elected per archaic but still existing stystem.

Comparing a number of pieces left with a number of votes casted by actual people is quite hyperbolic.

Trump got much less votes than his opponent. I don't think anybody can dispute this. There's something weird, at best, to call one country's democratic, and yet have a system under which a man with less support becomes President. Trump has no popular mandate.

Of course, as I've been saying in other threads, you don't get to change rules during the game and he's legally President-elect. Doesn't mean we have to approve the system.

It is important to understand that our country is not a democracy. It is a Republic -  the founders wisely understood that democracy alone is mob rule. (Many would argue that democracy is not even a form of government - it is more a temporary transition into another form of government - usually an oligarchy or totalitarian form.)

The United States is exactly as it is named - a collection of states that are vaguely unified for a common purpose. But every state has it's own laws, rules, edict, and culture - and they all have their own separate interests as well. What is good for Idaho is different than what is good for New York, which is different than what is good for Texas.

It is for this reason that the electoral college exists - so that smaller population states don't get swamped by larger states without any real representation or power to prevent harmful laws to their states from being enacted. Essentially, the founders wanted to prevent the rise of concentrated, centralized power that is not representative of the rest of the nation.

The point is that our system of government makes it EXCEPTIONALLY hard to pass any wide-sweeping, dramatic change in our laws unless it has near unanimous support by ALL states in the country. This is a positive, not a negative - and is probably why our country has been so successful and survived so many historic events that would have toppled other governments.

CA and NY - certainly not representative of the nation as a whole - should not determine our nation's policy alone any more than Texas should. We are a collection of disparate states and all have a voice in this agreed upon union.

AMERICA IS NOT A DEMOCRACY BUT A REPUBLIC LOL.

It's like people don't understand the meanings of these two words, or what democracy actually is.

When america was founded, vast majorities of people, apart from the rich landowning elite couldn't vote, so of course it wasn't a democracy, so the founders supported a republic oligarchy instead of republican democracy.

[Meclazine for Israel]

You could argue that Trump does not have a mandate from the people to pursue his policies because of the popular vote, but that is about all.

But he is the legitimate President.

It's time to move on. Trump will be three weeks ahead of all of these democrats by the time they wake up.

We should not be paying politicians to whine in such an unprofessional and off the cuff manner.

If they dont like him, put forward a candidate in 2020 who is legitimate enough for their tastes. But it appears that certain democrats are above other people in their righteousness and simply cannot come to terms with the will of the American people.

Unfortunately for him, this individual senator has one vote just like every other adult in the USA. I certainly would not discredit his fine work, but he needs to let go and move on.

He clearly thinks that the people voted for the wrong person.

[The_Doctor]

Trump is many things (an idiot, a moron, and grossly incompetent) and probably will be forced to resign or lose the 2020 elections. Or simply not run again.

But he is the legitimate President of the United States. Really wish the Left would stop this "delegitimization" campaign. How well did it work out against W? All it did for W's voters was to make them think they were fighting the Left, not sustaining a President who most people agreed wasn't that great in hindsight. (Not that I agree; I liked W.)

Lewis should focus on positing Trump as a terrible President, not questioning the legitimacy of the victory. The victory was clear and Trump played by the rules and won.

[7,052,770]

Trump is many things (an idiot, a moron, and grossly incompetent) and probably will be forced to resign or lose the 2020 elections. Or simply not run again.

But he is the legitimate President of the United States. Really wish the Left would stop this "delegitimization" campaign. How well did it work out against W? All it did for W's voters was to make them think they were fighting the Left, not sustaining a President who most people agreed wasn't that great in hindsight. (Not that I agree; I liked W.)

Lewis should focus on positing Trump as a terrible President, not questioning the legitimacy of the victory. The victory was clear and Trump played by the rules and won.

Although it had many bumps, it eventually worked pretty well for Republicans to do it to Obama...

[The_Doctor]

Although it had many bumps, it eventually worked pretty well for Republicans to do it to Obama...

Let's recap how well it's worked out against Obama.

1.) The GOP leadership ended up being couped from the Tea Party and forced to submit to the most extreme parts of the GOP base who are pretty wild with rage. Trump stormed in, seized control of a very unwilling party, and then ...
2.) They couldn't win the popular vote.
3.) The mob that was galvanized by the 100% nonstop attacks on Obama have tasted victory. They will not believe in compromise which will ...

4.) Lead to some massive clusterbullpuckey.
a.) Corollary to this. Given their massive demonization of Obama, the GOP have alienated at least 48% of the country who liked Obama and voted for Clinton. Including some of the fastest growing demographics in the country. So, they have very little margin for error.

Do you really think this is an optimal outcome for the Democrats to emulate?

Oh yes - it didn't work out against Bush, because crucially, the Democrats became intellectually lazy and relied on anti-Bush sentiment to get to the White House. "Hope and change" was the motto of 2008, and it is clear now that the Democrats were unwilling to put in the hard work of convincing everyone in 2008 to have a reason to continue voting Democratic in 2010. This is one of the downsides of demonizing your opposition. You don't have to do any work to continue winning votes. Until it's too late.  

The GOP is about to learn that lesson.

Repeating this cycle doesn't help the Democrats. Stopping the demonization and starting the battle of winning voter loyalty is how you put away the GOP for a generation. There's an entire swath of Obama-Trump voters that can be won back - and can stick with a populist Democratic Party. You want to replicate a vibrant and huge Democratic majority? Give the electorate a reason. The GOP sure as heck doesn't have the capability to win 55% of the country on a consistent basis, not with their base, but the Democrats do.

The Democrats should recognize Trump as a legitimate President and go to war with his policies. "We respect the President, but this is why his policies are going to screw you, your family, your loved ones, and your communities and this is why our solution will actually help you."

[The_Doctor]

Trump's victory honestly is - as horrible as it sounds to say this - is a glorious godsend to the Democrats. The timing, the man, and the coalition is great for the Democrats.

Here's how.

Trump is taking over at the peak of the economic cycle. That means with 5% unemployment, rising wage growth, and no economic recession since 2009, what's that mean? It means that there is no crisis to manipulate, no economic "come back" story to stage for the GOP. And it also means there will be a recession at some point during Trump/Pence's term.

So, the GOP gets saddled with the economy at the very moment it's at the climax. It means it's downhill from now. Remember, the last successful GOP presidency took power at the moment the economy was in the doldrums (Morning in America)?  In 1992, Clinton took power JUST as the economy was taking off but unemployment was still at 7.2% when Bush Senior left office. Clinton's timing was amazing as the 1989-1990 recession was right before he took power. W took office again with very low unemployment and we all know how that turned out. 

Second, Trump himself is working with a very limited older white working class coalition. He lost minorities by huge margins and given his promises to his base, will be unable to bring Latinos to the 40s, and raise his AA appeal significantly. Of course, he could still, but given the intensity and the polarization of the GOP base and the country, it's very unlikely. And of course, he lost large swaths of younger white voters.

There are a number of economic and budget crises facing the GOP now (not least unwinding ObamaCare) that the GOP must slog through and lose serious political capital on.

Imagine if Hillary had won. She would be facing a GOP House, an economic recession between now and 2020, and historically low approval ratings. Instead, that's all now on Trump.

So, why demonize Trump? It's much smarter to construct an alternative to the Trump GOP and win for good the loyalty of a swath of voters who can put you in power and allow you to enact your agenda.

[(Still) muted by Kalwejt until March 31]

TD is genuinely onto something here.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump is legitimately the President-elect, but that doesn't mean anyone has to approve of him.

     Which I understand and respect. Rep. Lewis's comment sounds more like a birther, insisting he is illegitimate and holding to that view for no other reason than that he disapproves of him.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/legitimate#Etymology_1

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Trump fails 1 (emoluments clause), 2 (inexperienced, Russian assistance, Comey's interference), 3 (con artist, liar, fraudster) and possibly 4 (at least according to his own standard for public records). And while I'm sure he'd like to make the office hereditary, at present it doesn't pertain to the Presidency.

So while it's certainly silly and counterproductive to to act as though he won't be the titular President (who knows if he'll actually do the job), calling him illegitimate is a perfectly legitimate use of the word..

[hopper]

Trump's victory honestly is - as horrible as it sounds to say this - is a glorious godsend to the Democrats. The timing, the man, and the coalition is great for the Democrats.

Here's how.

Trump is taking over at the peak of the economic cycle. That means with 5% unemployment, rising wage growth, and no economic recession since 2009, what's that mean? It means that there is no crisis to manipulate, no economic "come back" story to stage for the GOP. And it also means there will be a recession at some point during Trump/Pence's term.

So, the GOP gets saddled with the economy at the very moment it's at the climax. It means it's downhill from now. Remember, the last successful GOP presidency took power at the moment the economy was in the doldrums (Morning in America)?  In 1992, Clinton took power JUST as the economy was taking off but unemployment was still at 7.2% when Bush Senior left office. Clinton's timing was amazing as the 1989-1990 recession was right before he took power. W took office again with very low unemployment and we all know how that turned out.  

Second, Trump himself is working with a very limited older white working class coalition. He lost minorities by huge margins and given his promises to his base, will be unable to bring Latinos to the 40s, and raise his AA appeal significantly. Of course, he could still, but given the intensity and the polarization of the GOP base and the country, it's very unlikely. And of course, he lost large swaths of younger white voters.

There are a number of economic and budget crises facing the GOP now (not least unwinding ObamaCare) that the GOP must slog through and lose serious political capital on.

Imagine if Hillary had won. She would be facing a GOP House, an economic recession between now and 2020, and historically low approval ratings. Instead, that's all now on Trump.

So, why demonize Trump? It's much smarter to construct an alternative to the Trump GOP and win for good the loyalty of a swath of voters who can put you in power and allow you to enact your agenda.

Yeah but some of those whites did vote at least once for Obama though(mostly in the Upper Midwest) so its not like  they were "Solid GOP Voters" to begin with.

I think Big Mistake with his comments about Mexicans. I mean 2/3rd of Latino's identify as Mexican as their sub-ethnicity. I mean really you are gonna alienate the fastest growing sub-ethnic group in America for the past 30 years up until a few years ago? That was just stupid.

As far as ObamaCare it was a disaster to start which only Republicans can mess it up is by making it worse which could happen.

What rising wage growth? I personally haven't seen it myself.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Trump's victory honestly is - as horrible as it sounds to say this - is a glorious godsend to the Democrats. The timing, the man, and the coalition is great for the Democrats.

Here's how.

Trump is taking over at the peak of the economic cycle. That means with 5% unemployment, rising wage growth, and no economic recession since 2009, what's that mean? It means that there is no crisis to manipulate, no economic "come back" story to stage for the GOP. And it also means there will be a recession at some point during Trump/Pence's term.

So, the GOP gets saddled with the economy at the very moment it's at the climax. It means it's downhill from now. Remember, the last successful GOP presidency took power at the moment the economy was in the doldrums (Morning in America)?  In 1992, Clinton took power JUST as the economy was taking off but unemployment was still at 7.2% when Bush Senior left office. Clinton's timing was amazing as the 1989-1990 recession was right before he took power. W took office again with very low unemployment and we all know how that turned out. 

Second, Trump himself is working with a very limited older white working class coalition. He lost minorities by huge margins and given his promises to his base, will be unable to bring Latinos to the 40s, and raise his AA appeal significantly. Of course, he could still, but given the intensity and the polarization of the GOP base and the country, it's very unlikely. And of course, he lost large swaths of younger white voters.

There are a number of economic and budget crises facing the GOP now (not least unwinding ObamaCare) that the GOP must slog through and lose serious political capital on.

Imagine if Hillary had won. She would be facing a GOP House, an economic recession between now and 2020, and historically low approval ratings. Instead, that's all now on Trump.

So, why demonize Trump? It's much smarter to construct an alternative to the Trump GOP and win for good the loyalty of a swath of voters who can put you in power and allow you to enact your agenda.

The GOP's best bet is to impeach Trump in <2 years, after he's done something outrageously bad and offensive even for him. Then they can use him as a scapegoat for the next decade, and hold up their willingness to impeach him as some sort of proof of how "good" they are.

[hopper]

Gotta say I don't agree with Trump when he said John Lewis should go back to his district because his district is poor and needs rebuilding or something to that effect. That was just a snide remark by Trump.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Okay atlas lefties let's hear your excuses for why this is okay in any way.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/01/13/politics/john-lewis-donald-trump-legitimate/index.html?client=safari

Trump agrees that his election was not legitimate:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-believes-voter-fraud-spicer-investigate/story?id=45016322

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[Person Man]

Okay atlas lefties let's hear your excuses for why this is okay in any way.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/01/13/politics/john-lewis-donald-trump-legitimate/index.html?client=safari

Trump agrees that his election was not legitimate:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-believes-voter-fraud-spicer-investigate/story?id=45016322

You must be logged in to read this quote.

He wasn't eleccted. He wasn't sent down for us. He came (up) himself.