Italy 2013 official results thread

[RogueBeaver]

Speaking of joke candidates...

[You kip if you want to...]

Grillo would make a better PM of Italy than Steinbruck would make Chancellor, so.........

[Leftbehind]

F'ing hilarious.

[Hash]

God bless you Peer Steinbrück. Keep it up.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yeah, that's me as a politician, or close enough. And one reason (of, like, seventy thousand) why I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of becoming one.

[Keystone Phil]

Do these Germans realize what they're doing when they say this stuff? I read today that some officials on both sides of the aisle (in Germany, I believe) took to Twitter to call Steinbrück the real clown in all of this.

[RogueBeaver]

He's hardly the only one: German press/political establishment is throwing a collective hissy fit.

[You kip if you want to...]

Do these Germans realize what they're doing when they say this stuff? I read today that some officials on both sides of the aisle (in Germany, I believe) took to Twitter to call Steinbrück the real clown in all of this.

Yeah. I'm not sure if you've been following the German election, but if you haven't, the guy's pretty unique. His gaffes have been off the charts ever since he was selected as the SDP's candidate for Chancellor.

He's a Mitt Romney/John Kerry style train wreck.

[You kip if you want to...]

Oh, and the actual quote

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[Filuwaúrdjan]

Of course he's not actually wrong.

[You kip if you want to...]

Of course he's not actually wrong.

Well yeah, but you don't say it when you're vying to be the most powerful man in Europe...

The quote's something you'd expect to see on this thread.

[Kitteh]

A gaffe is when you say what you actually think, etc.

[RodPresident]

Renata Bueno was councilwoman in Curitiba (Paraná), but she lost. Her father is PPS leader in Chamber of Deputies Rubens Bueno who ran 2 times for Paraná's governorship. She was very absent in Curitiba's Town Council. Brazilian PPS is the former Brazilian Communist Party turned into a right-wing hack, like NPSI.

[Antonio the Sixth]

What Steinbrück said is factually correct, but he's nonetheless a moron for saying it. And Napolitano was right to call him out.

[Franknburger]

What is making things even worse - I suspect the whole thing was planned the other way round: Two days after the Italians have gloriously defeated a conservative government, Steinbrück meets with Napolitano, congratulates the Italian people on endorsing change and sending a signal of departure to all of Europa (i.e. Germany) thereby displaying his statemanship, etc..

First little problem - there was no glorious centre-left victory in Italy the German SPD can take fresh impetus from.
Second, already larger problem - Steinbrück is neither able to hide his disappointment, nor displays any talent for improvisation (not even speaking of statesmanship)
Third problem: Napolitano realises (if he has not already before) that there is much more to gain for italy if he does Merkel the favour of exposing Steinbrück, than by courting his European comrade...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Don't rule out the fact that Napolitano (despite certainly not being a fan of the clowns in question) might have been genuinely offended by Steinbrück's comments. He has clearly shown throughout his term that he has a strong patriotic feel and a deep sense of national honor.

[Keystone Phil]

Of course he's not actually wrong.

Easy, Al. Your British is showing.

[Franknburger]

Don't rule out the fact that Napolitano (despite certainly not being a fan of the clowns in question) might have been genuinely offended by Steinbrück's comments. He has clearly shown throughout his term that he has a strong patriotic feel and a deep sense of national honor.

Accepted. It may also be that Napolitano has more important issues to discuss with Grillo and Berlusconi than why he met with Steinbrück after such statements.

I just went through some comments on Spiegel online. About 30% of them come out in support of Steinbrück 'a la "After all that Berlusconi has said about German politicians, it was high time someone fired back. 'Clown' was even to mild. Steinbrück has my vote". I hope it was really a gaffe and not a calculated statements - this could get really ugly!

[Antonio the Sixth]

Insulting Italians seems to be fairly mainstream in Germany, so I have a hard time seeing Steinbrück be significantly hurt by that.

[Franknburger]

I have now checked 105 comments: 53 against, 52 in favour of Steinbrück. And this is Spiegel online, not Bild !

What is going on there is not "italian-bashing". Its purely on Berlusconi, along the lines of "He compared German poiticians with KZ guards, called Merkel a 'fat-assed mommy', but when he is being titled a clown, everybody gets enraged".  
The comments on the Italian election itself are quite differentiated. In fact, after the "clown" statement, Steinbrück said "I don't know yet whether Italians have voted against austerity, or rather preferred those with more populist and pleasant messages. In any case, the outcome may contribute to bringing back problems for the Euro-zone."

P.S:  Spiegel online poll (4297 votes so far) Was Steinbrück's clown statement a mistake?

Yes     50.2
No      48.2

[SPQR]

Oh, and the actual quote

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How can you disagree with that?

[Keystone Phil]

Today's headlines: Napolitano stressed that Italy is "not in disarray" and that there is still a government in place with Monti leading it.

Grillo again states that there is no confidence in a center-left government. Meanwhile, a suspicious package was discovered at his residence.

Berlusconi is in the news as part of an investigation going back to 2006 regarding illegal (campaign?) financing for three Senators.

Huffington Post Italia is reporting that if a deal cannot be worked out between Grillo and Bersani, boy wonder Renzi may be called in.


Remember: Napolitano said the country isn't in disarray.

[Tender Branson]

Huffington Post Italia is reporting that if a deal cannot be worked out between Grillo and Bersani, boy wonder Renzi may be called in.

Renzi should have been called in right at the start, at the primary.

Could have been a much better result for the PD, because Bersani was seen as a really boring campaigner.

[RogueBeaver]

That Berlusconi investigation, from what I've read, is about him allegedly offering bribes to senators to cross the floor. Given his public approach to Renzi a few months ago it certainly seems plausible to me.

As for Renzi... he's more moderate, I don't see how M5S would prefer him. Unless it's just to work his charm in negotiations?

[Keystone Phil]

M5S would probably find him to be a more agreeable personality wise and he's a reformer. That's their main concern.

And this Silvio bribe story is hardly new. The Senator-elect in North and Central America claims was approached to flip when he was first elected in 2006. You will recall that the Senate was split 158-156-1 (the other was from one of those local South American parties) in Prodi's favor after that election.