The Next DNC Chair: TOM PEREZ WINS, makes Ellison deputy chair

[SCNCmod]

I hope they pick Buttigieg... he would do the best job & neither side would be completely pissed about the results.  

Buttigieg is a Millennial, Rhodes Scholar, Naval Intelligence Officer... who has engineered one of the best City-turnaround stories in the Country as Mayor of a MidWestern City (where he is in charge of over 1000 employees).  ... And he is Outside of Washington & less polarizing than Ellison or Perez.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I really love all the damn bern bros bitching in the thread that they aren't going to vote Dem if they don't get what they want.  You want to know who is out of touch and who is being a brat, look in the mirror.

Yeah, this thread is getting stupid.

Dismiss "Bernie bros" at your own peril Democrats. It appears that you've learned nothing from 2016.

Man you really are acting like a child. Go out like we are and fight the real enemy instead of being some bitter petty asshole all the time. It does nothing for you but bring you pain and dissatisfaction. 

Way to make stupid assumptions about my character.

After Bernie lost, I went out volunteered a ton of my time to help campaign for Hillary Clinton during the general. I'm active within my local Democratic Party, and campaign for local Democrats in my area. I'm doing my part.

It's you and the rest of the DNC who needs to wake up and take a look in the mirror, because what you've been doing clearly hasn't been working. Democratic U.S. Senate seats have fallen from 55 to 46. Our share of the House has plummeted from 256 seats to 194. Republicans still control both chambers. We've lost 958 state legislative seats. Democratic governerships have slipped from 28 to 16. We're losing, and it's not because of "Bernie bros."

JFC.

Yet instead of trying to fix these things you want to take your ball and go sit in the damn corner.

Don't know how you got that from my post.

I'm about as involved in the Democratic Party as someone my age can get, and yet you think I'm taking my ball and sitting in the damn corner. LOL

Honestly there's no way you can reason with spoiled children like JerryArkansas or Lief.

We're not the ones threatening to leave the party because we don't get our way. That's you guys. Love the projection though. Haven't seen it in a while.

You want to dismiss the Sanders wing as "children who don't know what's good for them", then you pay the price. Considering the leaks that occurred on day 1 of the DNC, I'd say they've given way too many chances.

VP pick: Hillary could've picked Sherrod Brown, Elizabeth Warren, Mark Dayton, Pete Shumlin, Keith Ellison or someone else. No, she picked Tim Kaine

Campaign: Bernie supporters in Wisconsin cry out "Come to Wisconsin or you'll lose it!". She ignores them, assuming it's on lock. She loses Wisconsin.

DNC chair: Bernie supporters rally around Ellison. You say it's ceremonial, so let him have it. Instead, you push Perez in a last ditch effort to maintain the influence of the Third Way centrists.

They would be perfectly within their right to say "get lost", but now their Justice Democrats movement is gaining traction. Some still believe they can change things from within . . . don't piss away that last ounce of goodwill they have.

This is why no one takes you guys seriously

[GoTfan]

I really love all the damn bern bros bitching in the thread that they aren't going to vote Dem if they don't get what they want.  You want to know who is out of touch and who is being a brat, look in the mirror.

Yeah, this thread is getting stupid.

Dismiss "Bernie bros" at your own peril Democrats. It appears that you've learned nothing from 2016.

Man you really are acting like a child. Go out like we are and fight the real enemy instead of being some bitter petty asshole all the time. It does nothing for you but bring you pain and dissatisfaction. 

Way to make stupid assumptions about my character.

After Bernie lost, I went out volunteered a ton of my time to help campaign for Hillary Clinton during the general. I'm active within my local Democratic Party, and campaign for local Democrats in my area. I'm doing my part.

It's you and the rest of the DNC who needs to wake up and take a look in the mirror, because what you've been doing clearly hasn't been working. Democratic U.S. Senate seats have fallen from 55 to 46. Our share of the House has plummeted from 256 seats to 194. Republicans still control both chambers. We've lost 958 state legislative seats. Democratic governerships have slipped from 28 to 16. We're losing, and it's not because of "Bernie bros."

JFC.

Yet instead of trying to fix these things you want to take your ball and go sit in the damn corner.

Don't know how you got that from my post.

I'm about as involved in the Democratic Party as someone my age can get, and yet you think I'm taking my ball and sitting in the damn corner. LOL

Honestly there's no way you can reason with spoiled children like JerryArkansas or Lief.

We're not the ones threatening to leave the party because we don't get our way. That's you guys. Love the projection though. Haven't seen it in a while.

You want to dismiss the Sanders wing as "children who don't know what's good for them", then you pay the price. Considering the leaks that occurred on day 1 of the DNC, I'd say they've given way too many chances.

VP pick: Hillary could've picked Sherrod Brown, Elizabeth Warren, Mark Dayton, Pete Shumlin, Keith Ellison or someone else. No, she picked Tim Kaine

Campaign: Bernie supporters in Wisconsin cry out "Come to Wisconsin or you'll lose it!". She ignores them, assuming it's on lock. She loses Wisconsin.

DNC chair: Bernie supporters rally around Ellison. You say it's ceremonial, so let him have it. Instead, you push Perez in a last ditch effort to maintain the influence of the Third Way centrists.

They would be perfectly within their right to say "get lost", but now their Justice Democrats movement is gaining traction. Some still believe they can change things from within . . . don't piss away that last ounce of goodwill they have.

This is why no one takes you guys seriously

I pointed out legitimate arguments, yet you dismiss them.

This is why no-one takes the Third Way seriously anymore. As soon as someone suggests something slightly left-wing, they get shouted down for being too idealistic.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I hope they pick Buttigieg... he would do the best job & neither side would be completely pissed about the results.  

Buttigieg is a Millennial, Rhodes Scholar, Naval Intelligence Officer... who has engineered one of the best City-turnaround stories in the Country as Mayor of a MidWestern City (where he is in charge of over 1000 employees).  ... And he is Outside of Washington & less polarizing than Ellison or Perez.

Why would the Hillary side be pissed that the candidate whom the majority of the Senators who endorsed Hillary in the primary (and endorsed in this race) endorsed? Said candidate has been bending over backwards for Hillary people. If that isn't enough for the Hillary hacks, then the party needs to join the Whigs.

[OneJ]

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

The DNC rigged the primary and then tried to start a new cold war with Russia to distract people when they got busted. The idea that progressives and the 3rd way establishment are somehow on the same team is ridiculous.

[Confused Democrat]

It seems many Democrats can't discuss differences of opinion or vision for the future of the party without lots of insults. I guess this is yet another reason why we lose elections and can't have nice things.

I'm with Gass in that I supported Sanders and currently support Ellison, but even if Perez becoming chair represents a symbolic victory for the establishment, why is that the end of the world? It's not like Perez is a corporate centrist shill, and it's not like Senators like Sanders will become invisible. Change generally does come from the bottom up, and what's far more important that who becomes the chair of the DNC is who shows up to vote in 2017 and 2018.

I feel like the Bernie wing of the Democratic party has been fighting tooth and nail every step of the way just to have a voice at the table. It's as if the "old guard" of the DNC is resisting us every step of the way, while at the same time screaming in our faces to "suck it up and stay in line!" Why does the establishment need a symbolic victory? They got to nominate Hillary Clinton, and she lost to Donald Trump of all people. Electing Perez is just going further fracture the party and lead to more of the name calling that you seem to despise.

I keep hearing the canned "every one of these candidates would be a great DNC chair" line. But if we're going to be honest with ourselves we all know that isn't true. You can call the Bernie wing childish and unreasonable for wreaking havoc if Ellison isn't elected, but we all know it's going to happen if he loses. This makes Perez objectively a worse choice for party unity. So why not throw "Bernie bros" a symbolic bone and elect Ellison. Everyone seems to think he'll be a great DNC Chair, so what's the problem?

I have a feeling there is something more nefarious at work here.

[Beet]

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

State legislative races are the most important class of election IMO. Who makes state laws, including determining the power of statewide office holders? State legislatures. Who redistricts? State legislatures. Who decides how a state allocates its electoral votes? State legislatures. Who passes Constitutional amendments? State legislatures. Where do candidates for Governor, Congress, and other statewide and federal office even come from? Often, state legislatures.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I really love all the damn bern bros bitching in the thread that they aren't going to vote Dem if they don't get what they want.  You want to know who is out of touch and who is being a brat, look in the mirror.

Yeah, this thread is getting stupid.

Dismiss "Bernie bros" at your own peril Democrats. It appears that you've learned nothing from 2016.

Man you really are acting like a child. Go out like we are and fight the real enemy instead of being some bitter petty asshole all the time. It does nothing for you but bring you pain and dissatisfaction. 

Way to make stupid assumptions about my character.

After Bernie lost, I went out volunteered a ton of my time to help campaign for Hillary Clinton during the general. I'm active within my local Democratic Party, and campaign for local Democrats in my area. I'm doing my part.

It's you and the rest of the DNC who needs to wake up and take a look in the mirror, because what you've been doing clearly hasn't been working. Democratic U.S. Senate seats have fallen from 55 to 46. Our share of the House has plummeted from 256 seats to 194. Republicans still control both chambers. We've lost 958 state legislative seats. Democratic governerships have slipped from 28 to 16. We're losing, and it's not because of "Bernie bros."

JFC.

Yet instead of trying to fix these things you want to take your ball and go sit in the damn corner.

Don't know how you got that from my post.

I'm about as involved in the Democratic Party as someone my age can get, and yet you think I'm taking my ball and sitting in the damn corner. LOL

Honestly there's no way you can reason with spoiled children like JerryArkansas or Lief.

We're not the ones threatening to leave the party because we don't get our way. That's you guys. Love the projection though. Haven't seen it in a while.

You want to dismiss the Sanders wing as "children who don't know what's good for them", then you pay the price. Considering the leaks that occurred on day 1 of the DNC, I'd say they've given way too many chances.

VP pick: Hillary could've picked Sherrod Brown, Elizabeth Warren, Mark Dayton, Pete Shumlin, Keith Ellison or someone else. No, she picked Tim Kaine

Campaign: Bernie supporters in Wisconsin cry out "Come to Wisconsin or you'll lose it!". She ignores them, assuming it's on lock. She loses Wisconsin.

DNC chair: Bernie supporters rally around Ellison. You say it's ceremonial, so let him have it. Instead, you push Perez in a last ditch effort to maintain the influence of the Third Way centrists.

They would be perfectly within their right to say "get lost", but now their Justice Democrats movement is gaining traction. Some still believe they can change things from within . . . don't piss away that last ounce of goodwill they have.

This is why no one takes you guys seriously

I pointed out legitimate arguments, yet you dismiss them.

This is why no-one takes the Third Way seriously anymore. As soon as someone suggests something slightly left-wing, they get shouted down for being too idealistic.

Err...I voted for, canvassed for, and donated to Sanders in the primary...

Anyway, I was referring to your childish threat to throw a temper-tantrum like some spoiled brat if your guy loses.  You don't see Perez supporters threatening to leave the party if Ellison wins.  And Jerry's absolutely right about why the Democrats shouldn't just let Ellison have the Chairmanship without a fight, adults don't submit to the demands of whining children.  And another thing, if you think Perez is a third way corporate shill, you pretty clearly have no idea what you're talking about.  I'm not saying Perez is perfect, but he's not from the Clinton-wing (neither is Obama, btw).

[OneJ]

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

State legislative races are the most important class of election IMO. Who makes state laws, including determining the power of statewide office holders? State legislatures. Who redistricts? State legislatures. Who decides how a state allocates its electoral votes? State legislatures. Who passes Constitutional amendments? State legislatures. Where do candidates for Governor, Congress, and other statewide and federal office even come from? Often, state legislatures.

That what I meant.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

It seems many Democrats can't discuss differences of opinion or vision for the future of the party without lots of insults. I guess this is yet another reason why we lose elections and can't have nice things.

I'm with Gass in that I supported Sanders and currently support Ellison, but even if Perez becoming chair represents a symbolic victory for the establishment, why is that the end of the world? It's not like Perez is a corporate centrist shill, and it's not like Senators like Sanders will become invisible. Change generally does come from the bottom up, and what's far more important that who becomes the chair of the DNC is who shows up to vote in 2017 and 2018.

I feel like the Bernie wing of the Democratic party has been fighting tooth and nail every step of the way just to have a voice at the table. It's as if the "old guard" of the DNC is resisting us every step of the way, while at the same time screaming in our faces to "suck it up and stay in line!" Why does the establishment need a symbolic victory? They got to nominate Hillary Clinton, and she lost to Donald Trump of all people. Electing Perez is just going further fracture the party and lead to more of the name calling that you seem to despise.

I keep hearing the "every one of these candidates would be a great DNC chair." But if we're going to be honest with ourselves we all know that isn't true. You can call the Bernie wing childish and unreasonable for wreaking havoc if Ellison isn't elected, but we all know it's going to happen if he loses. This makes Perez objectively a worse choice for party unity. So why not throw "Bernie bros" a symbolic bone and elect Ellison. Everyone seems to think he'll be a great DNC Chair, so what's the problem?

I have a feeling there is something more nefarious at work here.

Establishment Democrats would rather maintain complete power in the party, even at the expense of winning elections.

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

State legislative races are the most important class of election IMO. Who makes state laws, including determining the power of statewide office holders? State legislatures. Who redistricts? State legislatures. Who decides how a state allocates its electoral votes? State legislatures. Who passes Constitutional amendments? State legislatures. Where do candidates for Governor, Congress, and other statewide and federal office even come from? Often, state legislatures.

A DNC chair who gives a sh**t about downballot races will obviously help. Kaine dropped the ball so hard in the 2010 redistricting cycle.

[OneJ]

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

The DNC rigged the primary and then tried to start a new cold war with Russia to distract people when they got busted. The idea that progressives and the 3rd way establishment are somehow on the same team is ridiculous.

I never said that progressives and the establishment were the same team. Stop putting words in my mouth and actually read. I stated that the Establishment should give Progressives a voice. I don't think they should rig either for anyone.

But "Progressives" like you aren't much better when you refuse cooperate. That's one of the reasons why Democrats have been losing elections.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I just really, really love that Jarkansas' first defense is to accuse everyone else of childishness and defensiveness.

[Virginiá]

I feel like the Bernie wing of the Democratic party has been fighting tooth and nail every step of the way just to have a voice at the table. It's as if the "old guard" of the DNC is resisting us every step of the way, while at the same time screaming in our faces to "suck it up and stay in line!" Why does the establishment need a symbolic victory?

That's how it goes. They aren't just going to hand over control without a fight. They would rather ride the party into the ground then just step aside, especially considering that some of them believe the progressive wing will drag the party too far to the left and make it unappealing in more moderate/conservative areas we need to do better in. Admittedly, I can't say I blame them - the number of purists who think liberals can win everywhere is either growing in the party and/or becoming much louder.

Point is, if the bernie wing wants to take over, it is going to have to fight for it.

[Confused Democrat]

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

The DNC rigged the primary and then tried to start a new cold war with Russia to distract people when they got busted. The idea that progressives and the 3rd way establishment are somehow on the same team is ridiculous.

I never said that progressives and the establishment were the same team. Stop putting words in my mouth and actually read. I stated that the Establishment should give Progressives a voice. I don't think they should rig either for anyone.

But "Progressives" like you aren't much better when you refuse cooperate. That's one of the reasons why Democrats have been losing elections.

You're delusional if you think "progressives refusing to cooperate" is why Democrats have been losing elections. It is incumbent upon the DNC to put up candidates who can win. And it's the DNC's sense of entitlement to our votes that has lost them elections.

[JerryArkansas]

I just really, really love that Jarkansas' first defense is to accuse everyone else of childishness and defensiveness.

When a person says they won't vote or be a democrat because they lost they are a child.  And spell my name right when you try and drag me. 

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I feel like the Bernie wing of the Democratic party has been fighting tooth and nail every step of the way just to have a voice at the table. It's as if the "old guard" of the DNC is resisting us every step of the way, while at the same time screaming in our faces to "suck it up and stay in line!" Why does the establishment need a symbolic victory?

That's how it goes. They aren't just going to hand over control without a fight. They would rather ride the party into the ground then just step aside, especially considering that some of them believe the progressive wing will drag the party too far to the left and make it unappealing in more moderate/conservative areas we need to do better in. Admittedly, I can't say I blame them - the number of purists who think liberals can win everywhere is either growing in the party and/or becoming much louder.

Point is, if the bernie wing wants to take over, it is going to have to fight for it.

Well sure. I don't think anyone's contesting that. But part of fighting is raising a racket every time the establishment refuses to give way.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I just really, really love that Jarkansas' first defense is to accuse everyone else of childishness and defensiveness.

When a person says they won't vote or be a democrat because they lost they are a child.  And spell my name right when you try and drag me.  

Jarkansas sounds better - you should consider changing it.

And as long as we're talking, let's be honest; it's not JUST your accusation for people who want to drop out of the Dem party because the establishment is oppressive.

[JerryArkansas]

I just really, really love that Jarkansas' first defense is to accuse everyone else of childishness and defensiveness.

When a person says they won't vote or be a democrat because they lost they are a child.  And spell my name right when you try and drag me. 

Jarkansas sounds better - you should consider changing it.

How about a no.

[Dr. Arch]

This is like the primary all over again.

[OneJ]

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

The DNC rigged the primary and then tried to start a new cold war with Russia to distract people when they got busted. The idea that progressives and the 3rd way establishment are somehow on the same team is ridiculous.

I never said that progressives and the establishment were the same team. Stop putting words in my mouth and actually read. I stated that the Establishment should give Progressives a voice. I don't think they should rig either for anyone.

But "Progressives" like you aren't much better when you refuse cooperate. That's one of the reasons why Democrats have been losing elections.

You're delusional if you think "progressives refusing to cooperate" is why Democrats have been losing elections. It is incumbent upon the DNC to put up candidates who can win. And it's the DNC's sense of entitlement to our votes that has lost them elections.

Why can't you discuss your differences without calling me "delusional?"

[JerryArkansas]

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

The DNC rigged the primary and then tried to start a new cold war with Russia to distract people when they got busted. The idea that progressives and the 3rd way establishment are somehow on the same team is ridiculous.

I never said that progressives and the establishment were the same team. Stop putting words in my mouth and actually read. I stated that the Establishment should give Progressives a voice. I don't think they should rig either for anyone.

But "Progressives" like you aren't much better when you refuse cooperate. That's one of the reasons why Democrats have been losing elections.

You're delusional if you think "progressives refusing to cooperate" is why Democrats have been losing elections. It is incumbent upon the DNC to put up candidates who can win. And it's the DNC's sense of entitlement to our votes that has lost them elections.

Why can't you discuss your differences without calling me "delusional?"

At this point it seems like a lost cause with them. Let them bitch and moan. Seems all they can do.

[Confused Democrat]

This is totally ridiculous. Both of the Establishment wing and the Progressive wing need to realize that calling each other out will not form unity. It prolongs the chaos. We're already a "minority party" nationally and in most states.

Perez winning will definitely not be the end of the world. If you are a Sanders Loyalist, don't let it get to you and not participate in anything of Democrats. Sanders Loyalists are already attempting to take over parties in some places w/o the help of anyone.

The Establishment Wing needs to give space for Progressive Wingers a voice within the party. Admit it. We need something fresh in many states in which the GOP has taken advantage. We need to join forces, grow up, and win elections again.

*Also, the DNC race isn't the most important race right now. It's the federal and statewide races for the next couple of years to worry about.

The DNC rigged the primary and then tried to start a new cold war with Russia to distract people when they got busted. The idea that progressives and the 3rd way establishment are somehow on the same team is ridiculous.

I never said that progressives and the establishment were the same team. Stop putting words in my mouth and actually read. I stated that the Establishment should give Progressives a voice. I don't think they should rig either for anyone.

But "Progressives" like you aren't much better when you refuse cooperate. That's one of the reasons why Democrats have been losing elections.

You're delusional if you think "progressives refusing to cooperate" is why Democrats have been losing elections. It is incumbent upon the DNC to put up candidates who can win. And it's the DNC's sense of entitlement to our votes that has lost them elections.

Why can't you discuss your differences without calling me "delusional?"

Sorry, I can.

It's just that this thread has me a little worked up.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Oh for Christ sake it's the chair Trumpbis freaking attacking our freedom of the press am covering up possible illegal Russian ties. There are big things going on

[Dr. Arch]

This is like the primary all over again.

This is gonna last until the Bernie wing eventually takes over the Party. It's gonna be a long 4-12 years.

They will eventually. But this kind of "dialogue" is toxic.