Poor democracy (India) vs. Wealthier dictatorship (China)? (user search)
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  Poor democracy (India) vs. Wealthier dictatorship (China)? (search mode)
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Poll
Question: Where would you rather live?
#1
Wealthier Dictatorship
 
#2
Poorer Democracy
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 40

Author Topic: Poor democracy (India) vs. Wealthier dictatorship (China)?  (Read 3781 times)
Beet
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« on: February 19, 2015, 10:00:18 AM »

False dichotomy.
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Beet
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2015, 12:47:31 AM »


And you still think the question is meaningful? lol.
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Beet
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2015, 09:24:41 AM »


And you still think the question is meaningful? lol.

So if someone asks you if you'd rather have x-ray vision or fly, do you yell "neither of those is possible!"

The correct analogy is more like 'would you rather go to war with Iran and have a strong America or negotiate with Iran and be a cheese eating surrender monkey?' It's a leading question that implies a dichotomy which is false.
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Beet
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2015, 10:57:18 AM »


And you still think the question is meaningful? lol.

So if someone asks you if you'd rather have x-ray vision or fly, do you yell "neither of those is possible!"

The correct analogy is more like 'would you rather go to war with Iran and have a strong America or negotiate with Iran and be a cheese eating surrender monkey?' It's a leading question that implies a dichotomy which is false.

What is false about it? I think the description of India as a poor democracy and China as a wealthier dictatorship is fairly accurate, no?

There are, uh, some other differences between India and China besides those two.

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Tell that to the parents of an only child who died in a car accident, who couldn't have another child because of government policy, and are now too old to. All the wealth in the world is meaningless if one has nothing to live for.
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Beet
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 07:17:56 PM »

History has shown that people prefer a wealthy/economically stable dictatorship then a poor/economically unstable free nation. Economics trumps all.

How has history shown that?
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Beet
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2015, 07:53:21 PM »

It seems to be an underlying premise for the question that India would be wealthier if it had an authoritarian government and China would be less successful if it was a democracy, both highly questionable assumptions, which makes the whole question pointless.

Precisely. Thank you for saying what I have been trying to get at so clearly.

Even if one were to interpret this question literally, it makes no sense. For example, if you didn't know any Chinese dialects or script, living in China wouldn't be too pleasant even if you had a few dollars more (and it's not the easiest language to learn).
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Beet
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2015, 03:43:26 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2015, 03:47:18 PM by Beet »

It is a false dichotomy and a classic cognitive error.  "China has developed in spite of an authoritarian government" is a lot less interesting story than "China has developed because it has pioneered a hybrid third-way form of state driven development."  Even though I've never heard that story articulated in a non fuzzy form.

Right. It's also what the CCP would like everyone to think. The CCP sort of stumbled into an economic miracle after ending their disastrous economic policies from 1949-79. They didn't pioneer anything new. They reaped the rewards of liberalization from the 1980s through the 2000s, and those rewards were great indeed, but now liberalization has stalled out and is going backwards.

(Infrastructure is sort of a red herring- these flashy projects draw attention, but government willingness to build isn't the decisive factor that drives development. That is why India will still develop in spite of the things Sbane points out, and probably why Indians aren't clamoring for a dictatorship.

Mao was perfectly willing to build infrastructure. In fact he was obsessed with heavy industry as well. But he couldn't finance any of it because China was too poor. During the 1980s, China was even poorer than India, "despite" (more likely because of) 40 years of dictatorship. They also had this little thing called the Great Leap Forward which killed 40 million people in artificial famine which India never had. The communists appreciated infrastructure, science, and heavy and light industry, but what they failed to appreciate was an ordered, regulated, but open market.)
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Beet
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2015, 06:44:29 PM »

(Infrastructure is sort of a red herring- these flashy projects draw attention, but government willingness to build isn't the decisive factor that drives development. That is why India will still develop in spite of the things Sbane points out, and probably why Indians aren't clamoring for a dictatorship.
You might be interested in this old Larry Summers paper I was reading the other day:
http://qje.oxfordjournals.org/content/106/2/445.abstract

Once you disaggregate the capital stock into investment in structures vs. investment in equipment, the former is irrelevant to economic growth.

That's no surprise, really. Structures don't necessarily improve productivity... residential structures, for instance are clearly consumer items.
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