The Set It and Leave it Alone Minimum Wage Act of 2015 (Signed)

[Cranberry]

Increase it to $15, no exception to tipped employees, and I'm on board.

[Cranberry]

We could always take the middle way to take it to $14,50?

But yes, I am in general supportive of this.

Yes, but they are on a seperate minimum wage schedule, one that presently ihas them set to be higher then the minimum wage for the rest of the work force. The concern I have, is that employers will just stop giving tips and maybe that is desirable, I don't know.

I would be fine with giving tipped employees the same treatment as other employees provided they are put on the same tract as the others.

I have the least problem to let the practice of basically mandatory tipping expire, just the same way as in every other country on the planet.

[Cranberry]

Aye

[Cranberry]

Aye, guess...

[Cranberry]

This seems very sensible to me indeed, and I plan to support this amendment.

[Cranberry]

Numerous Senators and citizens have expressed their opinion in this thread far better than I could have ever done it myself, due to the obvious differences in knowledge about the respective subject between me and them; so I will not attempt to write a wall of text with no real points being said.

Still, I do join many Senators and citizens in the position that I believe interns should be paid the same minimum wage that is paid to everyone, not because of "muh slavery" sentiment, but because of I believe human decency and the big problems many people "trapped" in the internship-spiral face.

That's it from me.

[Cranberry]

What exactly do we define as an intern here? I've done a lot of internships in my high school career, but most of them have been more or less educational in purpose and I haven't really contributed something as a worker in any of those situations. I like the idea of setting a minimum wage for unpaid internships too, but we need to be careful what we are going to allow to fall within that range.

Still, I guess I am right in assuming that in every of these internships you did some work that would otherwise have had to be done by a payed employee? For this work, interns definitely should be compensated. Speaking of this though, it probably would be not the worst idea to clarify in the amendment that this minimum wage here is of course only to be paid when the intern in question actually does work, not though if he/she "just" is in the firm in question in doing further education.

[Cranberry]

I am supportive of such tax credits exclusively for non-profit and governmental internships, given though the interns still are paid the minimum wage. I echo Senator Windjammer from earlier, in that I don't see why anyone should be paid less than this minimum wage.

[Cranberry]

How about a 2-3% income tax break for nonprofits who use interns in this bill? I don't know how many nonprofits qualify for income taxation, but if so, I think this could be effective.

This seems indeed sensible to me, and I would support such a measure, provided it really just is granted to non-profits.

[Cranberry]

If it gets called "volunteering" instead of an "unpaid internship" would it still be illegal or no?  Or is the distinction that things done for academic credit have to be paid?    

The idea that because something is less available to the poor it should be illegal would make higher education illegal even with free tuition since poorer students will need to support themselves, right?

Indeed, this is why I'm inclined to stick to the status quo with regard to interns. I don't think there's feasible solution. It's lose-lose.

That being said, I could support a lower tiered minimum wage for interns if need be. But we ought to come up with a very clear definition of "intern" before we pass anything.

I would say, similar to what bore said above, that the distinction between intern and volunteer is not that hard to make: if you do a work that is also done by employed people who get paid for it, then it's an internship; if you work with other people who also do the work for free, then it's a volunteering job, at least that's the way I would understand it.
Thus, I also don't really see why in the first case people should have to pay less or even nothing for interns, save for the case of non-profits or NGOs, which should still have to pay the minimum wage, but still get some tax incentives or breaks, because such internships are often valuable but obviously in most cases not covered by big money... 

[Cranberry]

Your main argument, Mr. shua, resides on the thought that the whole labor system would collapse in itself when this novella of the law is being passed. This is most untrue. We are not, if I may, I quote, "closing off avenues for people to get (...) experience" - simply because the option of unpaid internships expires for companies, said will still be in need of younger, "fresh" manpower. They will not suddenly stop to hire people, simply because they cannot do so - companies will continue to need the same workforce they do today, they will need the same works currently done by unpaid interns to be done by some employees.  There will however be a difference in that they will then have to pay those people they would have kept on timely confined and unpaid internships at least the minimum wage.

[Cranberry]

Your main argument, Mr. shua, resides on the thought that the whole labor system would collapse in itself when this novella of the law is being passed. This is most untrue. We are not, if I may, I quote, "closing off avenues for people to get (...) experience" - simply because the option of unpaid internships expires for companies, said will still be in need of younger, "fresh" manpower. They will not suddenly stop to hire people, simply because they cannot do so - companies will continue to need the same workforce they do today, they will need the same works currently done by unpaid interns to be done by some employees.  There will however be a difference in that they will then have to pay those people they would have kept on timely confined and unpaid internships at least the minimum wage.

Yes and subjected to the same rigorous demands on experience and education as other employees thus closing off the avenues as shua said. The companies don't take risks in this day in age, that is why I used to the "pre-packed, foiled sealed ready to go employee with 10 years experience and a superb degree" line in the now tabled interns bill. He is not saying the whole labor market will collapse, he is saying it will become more restricted and exclusive, the exact opposite goal of what you want to achieve here.

If companies continue with these policies, they will simply not be able to find enough workforce for their company, that's at least what I think. IWe take the situation exactly like it is now for granted also if these changes are implemented, which I simply don't think is the truth. Companies will have to adapt to the new realities, and the objective of this bill is to make these adaptions as profitable and fair to everyone.

[Cranberry]

I assume this non-monetary compensation would be something like room and board?
Could you please elaborate why you believe at minimum 75% in monetary form is preferable to 50%, Senator TNF?

[Cranberry]

I see.
I am not really bound to any number here, so if other Senators don't have a problem with it, shall such be the law. I won't object to the amendment.

[Cranberry]

On the other hand though, this is giving more people a chance for an internship in the non-profit, non-governmental organizations sector (as they obviously don't have the money for-profit companies do), which is often quite sought for... I guess I will support this

[Cranberry]

Aye

[Cranberry]

Fine with me

[Cranberry]

Aye