Opinion of politicus

[Gustaf]

This message made her sink a bit further in my eyes:

"But remember that this is not some long distance cyberspace enmity with a guy in Australia or Montana, you are well within my reach shovel-face. So be a good little boy and piss off from both forums, otherwise this is about to become personal and switch to RL."

EDIT: I should clarify that this was a personal message sent to me on AAD. I'll see if I can get confirmation that it's actually her before I take any further action.

[Gustaf]

She now reminded me that it would be naive of me to not fear her just because she's insane. She also implied she has some sort of Stockholm-based hitman who will take care of me.

I guess Atlas Forum's excellent character judgment is as evident as ever in this poll.

[Gustaf]

Does this entire row stem from the one thread on economic growth and capitalism?

I think it rather stems from her being a bit insane. She's always had a history of sending angry drunken PMs to people, myself included, but this is of course on a new level.

She seems to take the internet a bit too seriously for her own good and I guess this last discussion triggered some sort of psychotic episode. The crazies often get obsessed with me, Solarstorm had a similar run, as did Einzige.

Anyway, I tried to advice her to calm down and talk to a medical professional but that only got me more sinister threats.

[Gustaf]

Denmark is more continental in its drinking habits than say Sweden or Finland.

Everyone can do a stupid thing when drunk once in a while but this is a bit more frequent. If you often do really bad things when drunk and still don't stop it's a sign of alcoholism. Though, of course, we have no real way of knowing whether it is due to alcohol or not.

I also, personally, think that being drunk is overused as an excuse. I get drunk most nights in a week (Swedish alcoholism represent!) and I've never engaged in repeated threats to some Atlas poster. Etc.

I think alcohol generally tends to lower peoples' inhibitions. For fairly normal, nice people that's a nice thing because they relax and have fun. With some people it brings out a lot of ugly stuff.

[Gustaf]

"But remember that this is not some long distance cyberspace enmity with a guy in Australia or Montana, you are well within my reach shovel-face. So be a good little boy and piss off from both forums, otherwise this is about to become personal and switch to RL."

They're called personal messages for a reason. 

If a trend gets started where posters start to clutter up this board with PMs from other posters, then you'll have only yourself to blame.

Oh, chill. This wasn't even a message sent on here. But yeah, if you wanna be on your high horse in a public forum and constantly harass people in personal messages then maybe it'll bite you in the ass eventually.

I think you know better Angus. If you wanna support the crazy, do so directly, not by interpreting rules in a weird way.

[Gustaf]

"But remember that this is not some long distance cyberspace enmity with a guy in Australia or Montana, you are well within my reach shovel-face. So be a good little boy and piss off from both forums, otherwise this is about to become personal and switch to RL."

They're called personal messages for a reason.  

If a trend gets started where posters start to clutter up this board with PMs from other posters, then you'll have only yourself to blame.

Oh, chill. This wasn't even a message sent on here. But yeah, if you wanna be on your high horse in a public forum and constantly harass people in personal messages then maybe it'll bite you in the ass eventually.

I think you know better Angus. If you wanna support the crazy, do so directly, not by interpreting rules in a weird way.

Yes, I do know better than many.  I know better than to act like an outraged schoolgirl and post private messages publicly.  When I call someone out, I do it in full view of the forum.  Not only have I never harassed anyone in a personal message, but I also have never posted the contents of a personal message on this forum.  And yes, I think that makes my horse a tall one.  Call my interpretation weird if you want, but if it's weird not to be a bully, then I'm weird.  It is indeed very fortunate for all of us to have on this forum such an expert in psychology who is confident enough to decide who is crazy and who is weird.  

No, really. Politicus has sent me insane messages for ages and I've said nothing. She eventually got so upset she issued threats over disagreements. If you want to take the side of the person so easily offended she would always block, ignore or issue threats against anyone who disagreed with them, be my guest. But I think that you don't actually want to.

[Gustaf]

I'm not defending Politicus by any means, and if that's confirmed she should be severely infracted, but... Are we really sure this is her? There are plenty of precedents for trolls posing as someone else on AAD (dead0, Compeuter and Tender most famously).

AAD administration did confirm that it was a Denmark based account and it's been crossposting with the one on here for a fair bit. So with 99% certainty yes. Of course, once someone on AAD suggested she could save herself by saying it was a joke she did after another 24 hours or so.

(in other words, once she realized her drunken bullying was not effective she backtracked)

[Gustaf]

everyone who votes HP in this poll is literally crazy, just saying

"But remember that this is not some long distance cyberspace enmity with a guy in Australia or Montana, you are well within my reach shovel-face. So be a good little boy and piss off from both forums, otherwise this is about to become personal and switch to RL."

You're suggesting my post was bad? These PMs to Gustaf weren't even sent (or published) when I posted that. What's more, no one can truly disagree that Politicus contributed so much to the International Elections board, and my post needs to be seen in that light.

This is really just an extension of her existing personality. Politicus has been harassing posters with drunken PMs for years, just not quite on this level. So, as I said, it's a sad reflection on the average Atlas poster's judgment that so many didn't see it.

[Gustaf]

"But remember that this is not some long distance cyberspace enmity with a guy in Australia or Montana, you are well within my reach shovel-face. So be a good little boy and piss off from both forums, otherwise this is about to become personal and switch to RL."

They're called personal messages for a reason.  

If a trend gets started where posters start to clutter up this board with PMs from other posters, then you'll have only yourself to blame.

Oh, chill. This wasn't even a message sent on here. But yeah, if you wanna be on your high horse in a public forum and constantly harass people in personal messages then maybe it'll bite you in the ass eventually.

I think you know better Angus. If you wanna support the crazy, do so directly, not by interpreting rules in a weird way.

Yes, I do know better than many.  I know better than to act like an outraged schoolgirl and post private messages publicly.  When I call someone out, I do it in full view of the forum.  Not only have I never harassed anyone in a personal message, but I also have never posted the contents of a personal message on this forum.  And yes, I think that makes my horse a tall one.  Call my interpretation weird if you want, but if it's weird not to be a bully, then I'm weird.  It is indeed very fortunate for all of us to have on this forum such an expert in psychology who is confident enough to decide who is crazy and who is weird.  

No, really. Politicus has sent me insane messages for ages and I've said nothing. She eventually got so upset she issued threats over disagreements. If you want to take the side of the person so easily offended she would always block, ignore or issue threats against anyone who disagreed with them, be my guest. But I think that you don't actually want to.

I know you have been a moderator for a very long time, and I know that it's probably a thankless task.  Still, I was a astonished that you'd post a personal message.  I would not do that.  Also, if in your position as moderator you feel that you need to use your mod superpowers, then it seems unseemly to broadcast it here.  I don't support bannings and suspensions of or editing of posts by any one other than the original poster, but if you have to have such recrimination, or if you genuinely feel harassed and feel that discussion is warranted, then such discussions ought to stay in the moderator cave. 

Also, if every drunken diatribe merited an opinion thread, I'd have racked up at least a thousand of them by now.  I disagree with politicus about half the time, but she is well informed and I admire her for her courage for speaking unpopular opinions.  That she lets you get the better of her is a weakness on her part, but a forgivable one, because you can be very trying at times.  Admittedly, the PM is a little creepy.  If I want to call you a jerk I do it out here in the open.  Still, I don't think I"m going to convince you that you're over-reacting, so I'm not going to argue with you any more.

Good day.

1. Since the message was not on this forum it's hardly covered by any policy on here.

2. I generally see no moral reason to respect the "privacy" of unsolicited personal attacks.

3. I am obviously not going to be involved in any decision on her because I'm personally involved. So I think I should have the same right as anyone else to defend myself in public against her attacks on me.

4. I'm not sure how I'm overreacting exactly. I haven't done much beyond calling her out on it. I think it is weird that you think her stalking me, publishing my personal information on the forum and (literally) saying my face is ugly is fine, but me responding that she is acting insane is an "overreaction". I find it hard to buy that you would, from an objective view point, make that choice.

[Gustaf]

Still, I was a astonished that you'd post a personal message.  I would not do that.

in general, sure, but threats are obviously a different matter

Genuine threats are a problem, but:

(1) I am not convinced of any genuine threat in this case
(2) if it is a genuine threat then the appropriate agencies should be contacted
(3) no threat, real or perceived, justifies posting a personal message, because in this situation it serves no purpose other than to cast aspersions upon the character of a poster.  In fact, upon the characters of two posters, since they are both diminished at once.  She because now we'll think twice before going drinking with her.  He because now we'll never, ever trust him with any secret.
(4)  As bad as drunk driving is, it's even worse when a cop does it.  It makes us lose faith in the entire system.  I'd say that such a cop seems unfit to be a cop and ought to have the decency to quit his job before he gives all cops a bad name.

How is writing a message calling me a "shovel face" and threatening me "sharing a secret"? Your principle is pretty bizarre. Why on Earth would I have any obligation to respect her privacy in those PMs when she cyberstalked me and put up my Facebook profile on here?

You should maybe realize that I have done nothing that is prohibited. Anyone could do what I did. It's not drunk driving it's like, I don't know, driving? Or, actually, it's kind of like reading out a terrorist threat on TV. You know, disrespectful of bin Laden's privacy and all but still not really against any law.

[Gustaf]

everyone who votes HP in this poll is literally crazy, just saying

"But remember that this is not some long distance cyberspace enmity with a guy in Australia or Montana, you are well within my reach shovel-face. So be a good little boy and piss off from both forums, otherwise this is about to become personal and switch to RL."

You're suggesting my post was bad? These PMs to Gustaf weren't even sent (or published) when I posted that. What's more, no one can truly disagree that Politicus contributed so much to the International Elections board, and my post needs to be seen in that light.

This is really just an extension of her existing personality. Politicus has been harassing posters with drunken PMs for years, just not quite on this level. So, as I said, it's a sad reflection on the average Atlas poster's judgment that so many didn't see it.

Not sure when these threads did become evaluations of posters' character/personality instead of evaluations of posters' posting behavior. Of course that doesn't excuse these threatening PMs.

What I meant was that this is a step beyond, but angry somewhat threatening PMs to random people has been a staple of her behaviour for a long time. I thought it had happened to enough people that it was commonly known but by reactions here I guess not.

The start of this whole thing, after all, was her attempt to silence a poster by threatening to delete the Portugal thread, as she later did.

[Gustaf]

saying my face is ugly is fine, but me responding that she is acting insane is an "overreaction". I find it hard to buy that you would, from an objective view point, make that choice.

I was wondering about shovelface.  I had assumed that it was some Germanic or Scandanavian reference, and whether she was posting in English at all. 

Not sure what choices I'd make.  Doesn't matter because now I'm over it.  I'm desensitized, as they say.  I'm like the jurors who refused to convict the police who beat Rodney King.  So much exposure has made me think it's all normal.  Post whatever messages you want.  I'm bowing out.

"Skovlansigt" is not a word I have heard used in Danish, but if I should interprint it, there's one of two meanings, one is that Politicus think that Gustaf look like he have been hit by a shovel in the face, two is that Gustaf look like he need to be hit in the face with a shovel. As Politicus have already called Gustaf so ugly that he wouldn't be able to score with the fair gender, I think the first interpretation is the most likely, especially because I have heard ugly people being described as looking like they have been hit with a shovel in the face.

Oh, I thought it meant having a face shaped like a shovel. It's cute though that Angus cut out the rest of my post which was of course more important. At least he seemed to realize his position was indefensible, even though he seems unwilling to admit it.

[Gustaf]

saying my face is ugly is fine, but me responding that she is acting insane is an "overreaction". I find it hard to buy that you would, from an objective view point, make that choice.

I was wondering about shovelface.  I had assumed that it was some Germanic or Scandanavian reference, and whether she was posting in English at all.  

Not sure what choices I'd make.  Doesn't matter because now I'm over it.  I'm desensitized, as they say.  I'm like the jurors who refused to convict the police who beat Rodney King.  So much exposure has made me think it's all normal.  Post whatever messages you want.  I'm bowing out.

"Skovlansigt" is not a word I have heard used in Danish, but if I should interprint it, there's one of two meanings, one is that Politicus think that Gustaf look like he have been hit by a shovel in the face, two is that Gustaf look like he need to be hit in the face with a shovel. As Politicus have already called Gustaf so ugly that he wouldn't be able to score with the fair gender, I think the first interpretation is the most likely, especially because I have heard ugly people being described as looking like they have been hit with a shovel in the face.

Oh, I thought it meant having a face shaped like a shovel. It's cute though that Angus cut out the rest of my post which was of course more important. At least he seemed to realize his position was indefensible, even though he seems unwilling to admit it.

To be honest, I'd rather be cute than shaped like a shovel.  You seem determined to help us sympathize with politicus, don't you?  Keep turning the screw.  This is what you did to her and you got a rise out of her.  And as everyone can see you are very, very proud of it.  Let's see if you can get me into a rage as well.

I will only repeat that you are acting capriciously.  The most important part of your post seems to be that you have the right to air all the dirty laundry you want.  You can post a picture of the skidmarks in your underwear for all I care, and you can do it while posting that you have the right to do it since the shitstains were made in your own home and not in this forum.  But you still will not convince me that what you do is ethical.  I'm used to it now.  It does not surprise me now, but it remains unseemly.  It may be very important to you to do so, but I'd suggest that to keep repeating that you have the right to act like an asshole is not a defense for acting like one.  It is only a reminder of what everyone already understands.

This is the part of you I don't get.  We have both been posting here for years, and you strike me as well read and intelligent, and sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don't.  But all that aside, you seem to have a penchant for bullying.  Is this what you did to her?  Do you enjoy acting like Yago from Othello?  Do you think that makes you cool?  You do realize that Shakespeare doesn't want you to like Yago, don't you?  He wants you to like Othello.  Whether he wants you to like that slut Desdemona has never been clear to me, but he definitely doesn't want you to identify with Yago.  

Do you think politicus is "crazy"?  Don't you understand that the real experts, the ones who society expects to decide whether someone is crazy also regularly determine that someone is generally driven crazy by the types of people who bully them into being crazy?  Those are the people like Yago.  You are not doing society any good services here.  You are not helping anyone to heal.  You are only throwing fuel on fires.  You may or may not have created a problem, but you exacerbated it, and in order to wash your hands you want to burn on the stake anyone who upsets you. 

Of course you have the right to post all the personal messages you want to post.  I have never said that you should not.  I am just amazed that anyone would exercise that right.  Especially a moderator.  

And yes, I'll say it:  you really ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Your claim that I'm a bully supposes a power imbalance that is hardly there. You seem to assume that this exchange in which you're being very critical of me and I'm being very critical of you constitutes me bullying you. Why isn't it you bullying me? You barged into this  thread calling for me to be ashamed and when I defend myself against your attack I am trying to get a rise out of you?

It's a very odd asymmetry.

Similarly, it seems likely to me that when Politicus posted on here saying I was ugly, unintelligent and lying about my education she was trying to get a rise out of me. One could say that it was eerily similar to bullying even.

For some reason you didn't mind that at all. You did not barge into that thread to say that she should feel ashamed of herself.

So, how is Politicus' nasty attacks on me MY dirty laundry? Now, personally, I think that it is cowardly behaviour to do low and vile things to someone and try to hide it away from other people. People typically abuse the PM system to bully, hurt and intimidate people without others finding out, hiding behind the "privacy" regulations of the forum. I've always stayed away from that because I think it is poor behaviour. I'm ready to stand by what I say to people so I say it in public, leaving me open to attacks from third parties such as you right now.

You seem to prefer a world where those who bully and harass others in private are protected. I really don't see why. Perhaps you are under the misconception that there is some sort of private exchange between me and Politicus. That is not the case. She from time to time sends me angry unsolicited messages where she tries to intimidate me. I respond calmly to them.

Finally, there is this issue of me being Yago. This is ascribing motives to me that you have no basis for. Now, I was of course using crazy in the colloquial sense and not the clinical sense. I have stated, in public, that I am sorry for triggering something with Politicus. She clearly is unstable and has some sort of issue to deal with. This is why I also strongly urged her to seek professional help rather than take it out on me. Your argument seems to be that if it weren't for me she would be fine. I don't think this is true. Note that this started with her complete meltdown at another poster about something unrelated to me. As much of a megalomaniac I may be I think it grossly overestimates my importance to think that Politicus would have gone through life just fine if it only weren't for that darned Gustaf. I suspect events in her real life are more important. I also think that is important for another reason. You seem to think that when she bullied me I should have just borne it in silence because I should have been so condescending towards her that I did not place the same demands on her behaviour as I would on my own. I think that type of bending over backwards for bullies does a huge disservice to other people who may be less tough. This is especially true on a forum like this where many are young and/or struggling with issues like depression. What if I were very sensitive about my looks or intelligence for instance? What if I was paranoid and genuinely thought Politicus would have me killed? The next person she does this too that may be true. Which is why I don't buy this notion that my moral duty is to reward bullying with no negative reaction.