Opinion of compulsory military service

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't have a very positive view of slavery.

I'm not a fan of the draft by any means, but it is not remotely comparable to literal slavery.

This.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Absolutely 100% morally opposed.

[Antonio the Sixth]

But I think requiring military boot camp-style training regardless of the choice would be a fantastic idea, to encourage positive character attributes like self-discipline, obedience, loyalty, hard work, perseverance, and mental toughness..

These (or at least the way the military usually conceives them) are all awful things.

[Antonio the Sixth]

But I think requiring military boot camp-style training regardless of the choice would be a fantastic idea, to encourage positive character attributes like self-discipline, obedience, loyalty, hard work, perseverance, and mental toughness..

These (or at least the way the military usually conceives them) are all awful things.

Expand on that idea please?  The military's structure and emphasis on obedience does a whole lot of good in turning people around, having known a few people with 1.X GPAs in high school do great in college in a useful subject like engineering after a stint in the military.  The work ethic, physical fitness, etc. promoted by the military seem like great skills.

I don't want our kids to blindly follow some constantly-screaming, self-important, testosterone-filled cretin's orders just because he happens to be their hierarchical superior. I don't want them to endure constant physical and psychological abuse just so that they can learn how to kill and not be killed. I don't want those who happen to be physically weak, wimpy, socially awkward, or simply uninterested in all this stupidity to be mercilessly bullied and humiliated. I don't want them to forge the extremely unhealthy sort of "camaraderie" that this sort of experience leads to.

Some people want to go through this, and it is their right to. Those people will jump at the opportunity to enlist. That's why most countries have a professional military, and it's better for everyone involved.

[Antonio the Sixth]

But I think requiring military boot camp-style training regardless of the choice would be a fantastic idea, to encourage positive character attributes like self-discipline, obedience, loyalty, hard work, perseverance, and mental toughness..

These (or at least the way the military usually conceives them) are all awful things.

Expand on that idea please?  The military's structure and emphasis on obedience does a whole lot of good in turning people around, having known a few people with 1.X GPAs in high school do great in college in a useful subject like engineering after a stint in the military.  The work ethic, physical fitness, etc. promoted by the military seem like great skills.

I don't want our kids to blindly follow some constantly-screaming, self-important, testosterone-filled cretin's orders just because he happens to be their hierarchical superior. I don't want them to endure constant physical and psychological abuse just so that they can learn how to kill and not be killed. I don't want those who happen to be physically weak, wimpy, socially awkward, or simply uninterested in all this stupidity to be mercilessly bullied and humiliated. I don't want them to forge the extremely unhealthy sort of "camaraderie" that this sort of experience leads to.

Some people want to go through this, and it is their right to. Those people will jump at the opportunity to enlist. That's why most countries have a professional military, and it's better for everyone involved.

To be blunt, your description of the military seems like a right-wing caricature of what liberals think about the armed forces. 

Sigh.....the brave men (and women) who put their life on the line and train great soldiers for battle shouldn't be belittled with such language.  Sure, maybe they're not as eloquent with essays or as adept with differential equations, but that kind of language is just demeaning. They aren't cretins.  They're heroes, and they have tons of soft skills, like leadership ability, that many very intelligent people lack.  Yes, the drill seargants could learn something from the nerds, but I would say it applies vice versa just as much, if not more.

I know most officers aren't like that, but the kind of person I described definitely exists in large numbers among their ranks, and their influence is easy to spot. It's also ridiculous to say people are "heroes" just for serving in the military, or even in combat. There are many reasons that could push someone to go to war, bravery and abnegation only being two of them (many just seek the thrill, or simply and much more sadly, have nothing else to do). You are a hero if you actually do something heroic, not by belonging to a particular occupation or group.

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"Red Pill" is garbage and you should run away from it as fast as you can. Besides, I don't see "nerdiness" or "wimpiness" as inherently bad character traits. Sure, they can be taken to unhealthy extremes, but so can the traits associated with the so-called "alphas" - and the latter tend to become much more harmful to society when taken to their extremes. Nerds, for all their flaws, usually don't push around or screw over other people.

As for social cohesion, I'm not really interested in the highly hierarchical kind that the military fosters, in which all soldiers are equals only in that they're equally bound to blindly obey their superior and follow a strict discipline. That's equality in oppression, which has little in common with equality in freedom that a progressive seeks. Besides, let's not pretend that racism and classism don't exist in the military. And how about we address the elephant in the room that is the sexism that thoroughly permeates military culture?