Israel

[Хahar 🤔]

Germans are white and Palestinians not so the Palestinians have to suffer for German crimes. Sad isn't it?

It is the natural order. Subject races must naturally suffer for the crimes of the master races.

[Хahar 🤔]

One can only take so many Jews with comments that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel and Palestine...

[Хahar 🤔]

One can only take so many Jews with comments that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel and Palestine...

What?

Take a look at this:

The only crime of the Palestinians was being nonwhite on soil that whites wanted for their own.

That's true, but realize in context that 6 million of my people were murdered. You cannot place the blame entirely on the Jews. There is responsibility on both sides.

What a nonsensical comment.

[Хahar 🤔]

Aye, that doesn't make sense.  It's like saying the holocaust was small potatoes.  I try pretty hard to not hold everybody on your side accountable for what some of the idiots on your side say.  Sadly, I'm not always successful.

But where was the Palestinian responsibility for the Holocaust? Prove some and I'll recant everything I've said in this thread.

[Хahar 🤔]

Why exactly did Israel do this?

[Хahar 🤔]

The old "leave no man behind" creed I'd imagine.  Like with most things, when taken to the extreme it can get kind of silly.

So it can. Like when you let out a dangerous murderer 524 years early.

[Хahar 🤔]

Does anyone else agree with me that Israel is one of the worse places where straight PR could possibly be used? Just the luck of everyone involved that straight PR is used.

[Хahar 🤔]

Does anyone else agree with me that Israel is one of the worse places where straight PR could possibly be used? Just the luck of everyone involved that straight PR is used.

Just needs a higher threshold. 5% would at least keep the uber-loonies out.

Regardless, it'd be better to use multi-member constituencies.

[Хahar 🤔]

Does anyone else agree with me that Israel is one of the worse places where straight PR could possibly be used? Just the luck of everyone involved that straight PR is used.

Just needs a higher threshold. 5% would at least keep the uber-loonies out.

Regardless, it'd be better to use multi-member constituencies.

What makes you think that?

Straight PR means extremism. Especially when the parliament is sovereign, as it is in Israel.

[Хahar 🤔]

Does anyone else agree with me that Israel is one of the worse places where straight PR could possibly be used? Just the luck of everyone involved that straight PR is used.

Just needs a higher threshold. 5% would at least keep the uber-loonies out.

Regardless, it'd be better to use multi-member constituencies.

What makes you think that?

Straight PR means extremism. Especially when the parliament is sovereign, as it is in Israel.

How would you set up the constituencies?

Based on the administrative subdivisions they use there (I forget what they were called).

[Хahar 🤔]

I'd support a higher threshold, but nothing else.

And how Israel conducts elections is your business because....?

You could say that about this whole board.

[Хahar 🤔]

11 days to go; anyone have any predictions other than Livni to replace Olmert?

No.

[Хahar 🤔]

If Obama wins do you think Israel may feel emboldened to unilaterally take on Iran on its own?

No....clearly.  Obama supports Israel just as much as McCain does.  They (Israel) may do it independently of who is in the White House if they feel threatened...as would be their right.  It would have nothing (little?) to do with who was the sitting President of the US.

That is possibly what pisses me off the most. The US doesn't need to be Israel's bitch.

If it came down to a confrontation, Israel has nukes and Iran doesn't. Period.

[Хahar 🤔]

Wow!  You hate Isreal more than ANYTHING ELSE!?

Yup, its truly the biggest blocker to peace in the world.  I like to use this analogy:

There is a ghetto and in this ghetto is a rec center.  Then, rich white people buy the rec center, knock it down, and build a big mansion.  Then the rich white people are angry that the minorities in the neighboorhood are throwing sticks at their house and want help.  What the hell did they expect?  I don't object as much to the idea of Israel as the placement, although I still don't see why the Jews are this exhalted group that deserve their own homeland.

Not quite. Remember that the ghetto used to be a rich neighbohood long before that.

[Хahar 🤔]

Unfortunately, Netanyahu supports a two state solution.

He was probably pressured into it, dammit.

As I've said, it is in the best strategic interests of Israel for there to be a State of Palestine.

No.

How is it not in the best interests of Israel?  I've already explained why it is, now you explain why it isn't.

Because they're BAD. What don't you get about that?

[Хahar 🤔]

Well, according to Obama we shouldn't be meddling in another nations affairs. Unless it's Israel, then it's ok for Obama to tell them to not build settlements.

But with the settlements, two nations are involved.

Arguable.

I don't think you can argue that Israel and Palestine are one nation. Perhaps one state, but they are certainly different nations.

[Хahar 🤔]

God gave us this land, now we want to give it away to these monsters?

Please forgive me if I don't find this explanation, shall I say, sufficient.

[Хahar 🤔]

God gave us this land, now we want to give it away to these monsters?

God given land my arse!  You know for well that land actually belongs to the Palestinians, and if anything its the Israeli government who're the monsters for being arrogant enough to deny that!

But, seeing as Israel isn't going anywhere soon, its government could have the good sense to withdraw back to the intended 1948 boundaries and accept and recognise the presence of a fully independent Palestinian state.  For one thing, Israel's Arab neighbours might be somewhat less pissed off at the aforementioned.

That makes as much sense as defending Andrew Jackson's removal of the Indians because there were plenty of other places to go to.

[Хahar 🤔]

"Aw.. poor Palestinians your not evil, you just elect terrorists to office and let them throw missiles and bombs into Israel for no good reason. Your not bad, society made you bad!  Israel is bad  beucase they stole so much land!"

This Stupid liberal foreign policy will not bring peace, It'll bring more oppression on the Jews and Israel.

If Muslims can't let Jews have a tiny strip of land, then the Muslims don't deserve any land!

Please leave this thread.

[Хahar 🤔]

If (when) a Palestinian State is established, I think it needs to be one continuous state, rather than little pockets throughout current Israel.

One of the states will be noncontiguous, and I don't think it'll be Israel.

[Хahar 🤔]

And what would Gaza have as an export? Could they have a viable economy? Or would they end up being some third world welfare state?

For that matter, could any sort of Palestinian State avoid this?

The West Bank would have plenty of tourism, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to visit Gaza.

[Хahar 🤔]

The Gaza strip is extremely densely populated. There was no way for Israel to avoid inflicting (nor were they that bothered, as you claim: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8128210.stm) massive civilian casualties with the means used in the war.

Amnesty International has consistently applied a different standard to Israel than toher nations.  It always looks to blame Israel, regardless of the facts.  Israel tries to minimize civilian casualties, despite what some groups will say.

Any evidence to back up these claims?

Avigdor Lieberman said so.

[Хahar 🤔]

Parliamentary supremacy is an astoundingly bad idea.

[Хahar 🤔]

I don't understand why Labor continues to attempt to be a right-wing party. It's not working.