Talk Elections

I declare this to be so.  As you guys know, I have been very fair in judging these debates, I believed that Kerry easily won the first and the second was a tie.

Bush had a comand of the facts.  He seemed to be energized from the get go.  He stayed on the offensive.

One thing that I noticed was that, when the question was asked about the candidates' wives, Kerry did not mention Teresa much.  Instead, he skipped directly to talking about his mother.

What was up with that?

LOL. Agree. last Friday, democrats TONS got to the Fox News Poll... vote here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135315,00.html

Also, Kerry bringing up Cheney's daughter... very bad form.  Apparently, it got a very negative reactions from focus groups.

Hey Ronald Reagan, is it really a positive to mention that Jessica Simpson is a Republican?  The girl is an idiot.  Is that your message for America?  "Come on everyone, be dumb."  That isn't much of a message.

The Goals of the Democratic Party

1) Call Republicans "dumb"
2) Lose elections

Hey, Wakie

Are you just one of those guys who's really insecure with himself?  Is that why you feel the need to go around calling people "idiots" and "stupid" all of the time?

I agree with your assessment.

As to Theresa, her negatives are even higher than John's.

Kerry needed to clearly win this debate, Bush merely needed to tie.

Bush got a win.

Notice how Kerry was the one who wanted to get out of there as fast as possible.

Also note, Bush scored with the white female vote, which is the key to the election.

I agree I think its disgusting that you are using somebody's looks for political captial. Grow Up.

Easy Kerry Win.

Oh sure...because PETA doesn't use attractive women for animal right's causes, right raggage?

The Kerry people know they are losing, hence the vicious statements.

The Tennesse Democrats had an ad comparing voting to Bush to being equivalent to winning the special olympics, even if you win you're still retarded (was their wording).

A handful of left wing Jewish Democrats are trying to prove that Al Queda isn't the only people who adore beheading those who dare to disagree with them.

I hope that Bush will turn the first of these vicious statements on itself by having a postive commercial about George Bush with an open captioned ASL translator in the corner of the ad.

Hey Super, believe whatever you need to believe, ok?  I just find it sad that Reagan would have us believe that 1 person's opinion is worth more than another persons just because they are more attractive.  All I'm doing is pointing out that Jessica "Buffalo Wings/Chicken of the Sea" Simpson, who is clearly intellectually challenged, may not be the best poster child for your side.

Yes they do, but the don't make ugly/attractive comparisons for political gain.

lol. Yes, because that sig really persuaded SO many voters...

Bush Scored Major Points with the women talking about the women in his life, kerry skipped right over his wife, and no one laughed at his jokes!

Kerry had 1 real joke, and it was a memorable one with Tony Soprano, we'll all remember this years from now. Bush tried too hard to be funny all the times, and came off looking too hyperactive and goofy, even drooling at one point.

What?  Kerry talked about his mother, his wife, and his daughters.  As for Kerry's quips, EVEN the moderator was laughing!

Oh, and what the hell was in the corner of Bush's mouth tonight?  It was a zit or a big sore of some kind.

That's kinda how I saw it.  The question was about his wife, but he just talked about his mother and mentioned Theresa in passing.  I felt bad for her, I really did.

See signature.

That was "comment" was set up on purpose. She really didn't believe that.

How can any person claim Kerry won the debate?  Were you even watching the same debate I was?  I have to wonder, because nothing I saw tonight made me nervous that Bush had been burned.

The Cheney's daughter bit was the gaffe of these debates, by the way.  That's all we're going to hear about for the rest of the week.

I watched, and I thought George Bush was absolutely terrible.  He kept rambling about "educating" people, he seemed to think everything was funny, and he rarely addressed the actual question asked.  I really thought this was his worst performance.  It would have been more of a blowout if only Kerry hadn't been almost as bad. 

He was hardly rambling.  He was talking about building a foundation for long term prosperity and retraining workers to be able to compete in high tech jobs.

But he talked about like six times when it was probably only relevant once.  He claimed that NCLB would "educate" workers who had lost their jobs to outsourcing.  He talked about "educating" instead of addressing the minimum wage.   He seemed to have no solutions beyond "educating" people no matter what the problem.

Both candidates dodged to their talking points at times.

Bush's best answers were when he did not try to fill all his alotted time but said his piece and shut up.  His abortion answer is the best example.

Education is Bush's strongest issue.  He feels more passionately about it than any other.  Of course he thinks its a near cure-all.  If it were me, I'd have brought terrorism up for half the economy questions, because I think anyone who expects a strong economy without defeating terrorism has their head up their @$$.  Repeating the refrain doesn't weaken the point, it reinforces the point.

OK, but in this context it made him look like he didn't have answers to any other issues.

But the generally juvenile way he acted I thought was a much bigger minus anyway.

You're so right Wakie! I mean Cho has her own hit reality T.V. show she had a bunch of top 20 music videos and she sells a lot of CD's!!!

...Oh wait no That's right Jessica Simpson is that person not Cho... Cho is only famous for saying Hitler would make a better President than Bush... What a sign of amazing spectacular intelligence!

You're right.  I'm sold.  Jessica Simpson is a genius.  Buffalo really do have wings.  There really are chicken in the sea.  If you are more attractive that means you are a better person.

If you really wanted a solid example of celebrities supporting each candidate you would have Natalie Portman on the liberal side.

Note on jokes: the audience isn't actually allowed to laugh at anything the candidates say.

THe polls seem to indicate that Kerry won, but I didn't see it myself.

Kerry clearly won, much bigger than in the second debate.

Kerry won the first debate 6-1 [I'm being charitable to the President mind you], the second debate 7-6 (8-6) and the third debate 6-3!

All Bush did was to castigate Kerry as a 'liberal' in the old-tax-and-spend tradition and, frankly, he's in no position to criticise any one on fiscal responsibility. It got somewhat tiresome! Nevertheless, he gave a confident performance, which would appeal to his base.

Kerry, on the other hand, more or less matched the success of the first debate; however, it didn't came across as signifigant as it did then because Bush performed relatively better. The improvement was noticeable in Bush, while Kerry held his own and was, thus, able to win this debate.

I think Kerry really hit home on many domestic issues, rightly criticising Bush's record as well as offering his own policies. Bush berated them as being unaffordable without hiking taxes on the middle-class. However, Kerry countered by making it perfectly clear that he would cost his plans in accordance with the fiscally responsible "pay as you go" ethos. In effect, he would only do things once they were more or less affordable. Bearing in mind the state of the budget deficit, a President Kerry should not be expected achieve his goals too quickly. It's called being realistic! I'm sure Kerry will pursue a pragmatic approach to achieving his goals.

Kerry was right in that other US presidents didn't botch domestic issues in the face of problems of an equal, or greater, magnitude than today.

I'm certain that a President Kerry will fight for the increasingly squeezed middle-class and working families. He won't raise taxes on them because it would be political suicide if he did - but Bush has to scaremonger on that one by misrepresenting Kerry time and time again! Give me a break, George!

Dave

I was actually thinking that the other day.  Cho (though not necessarily pretty) is quite smart, while Simpson (being very pretty) isn't very smart.

However, a similar parallel could be drawn between Bush and Kerry.  Kerry is all window dressing yet lacks the ability to form and convey his "plan" to America (which means he most likely doesn't have one), while Bush looks "dumb," yet has been able lead out country out of a recession and terrorist attack and put our economy back on the upswing.

Guess you can't judge a book by it's cover.

He does have a plan:

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/our_plan_for_america.pdf

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How has your opinion of John Kerry/George W. Bush been affected by the debate? Is your opinion of Kerry -- more favorable, less favorable, or has it not changed much? [Names rotated.]

Kerry: more favorable 42%, less favorable 15%, not changed much 43%

Bush: more favorable 27%, less favorable 17%, not changed much 56%


Thinking about the following characteristics and qualities, please say whether you think each one better described John Kerry or George W. Bush during tonight's debate. How about -- [Random Order]?

Expressed himself more clearly: Kerry +32%
Showed he cares about the needs of people like you: Kerry +12%
Had a good understanding of the issues: Kerry +12%
Agreed with you more on the issues you care about: Kerry +7%
Showed he shares your values: Kerry +4%(!)
Was more believable: Kerry +3%
Was more likable: Bush +5%


Next, regardless of which presidential candidate you support, please tell me if you think John Kerry or George W. Bush would better handle each of the following issues. How about -- [Random Order]?

Healthcare: Kerry +14%
The economy: Kerry +5%
Education: Kerry +1%
Taxes: Bush +3%(!)


These numbers are not good for Bush.

I've mentioned something about a focus group in the other forum.

The early polling, like that for the other 2 debates, doesn't really say a lot. Too early to tell. I say Bush won. He had Kerry on the defensive much of the night. Bush forced him to defend his record in terms of numbers of bills passed, numbers of tax increases voted for and costs of his proposed programs. By contrast, I felt Bush tried to focus on his own proposals/programs.

Much of what Kerry had to say was the same thing. Repeatedly accusing Bush of losing nearly 2 million jobs (not true) and of raising taxes on the poor and middle class (not true) while cutting them for the rich (also not true).

Are these from the USA Today?  Link?

I'd also like to see a link

Can someone post one?

No, they're directly from Gallup

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=13642

Thank you!

Expressed himself more clearly
61% Kerry
29% Bush
Kerry +32

Was more likable
48% Bush
43% Kerry
Bush +5

Education
48% Kerry
47% Bush
Kerry +1

Taxes
50% Bush
47% Kerry
Bush +3

Who expressed himself more clearly is naturally going to be the one you say won the debate

Kerry won on all questions, except for two of them: Bush was percieved as more likable by a tiny 5% margin and people trust him more on taxes, by an even smaller margin of 3%, which is very bad, I would guess, for a republican candidate.

On all other ten or so questions Kerry won.

Even a very partisan guy like yourself can't credibly spin these numbers.

There were only four issues

Four issues, Kerry won three, nine questions about the debate, Kerry won eight

Kerry is Mr Perfect in your world.

I didn't do the Gallup poll, you know

I didn't watch the debate, but all I hear about is Kerry's lesbian remark and how negatively it bothered people. 

It seems to me since the object is to win the election and that the debate is moving voters to Bush's direction, then Bush won.