Talk Elections

It is regarded as the most significant since military rule ended in 1974 because of the Olympics, Cyprus peace talks and a changing of the guard to a younger generation of leaders.

The main choice is between two political dynasties that have dominated modern political life.

On the right is New Democracy conservative leader Costas Karamanlis, nephew of a former prime minister who led Greece out of military dictatorship.

On the left, is Pan-Hellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) leader George Papandreou, grandson and son of former prime ministers, who is bidding to win the fourth consecutive election for the socialists since 1993.

What do you think?

Both parties are hard to tell from each other nowadays... not like the good old days in the '80's... *sighs*

Papandreaou hsa lived in Sweden and speaks excellent Swedish...that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge of Greek politics... :(

He seems a little too pro-EU though.

Is in Papandreaou who was born in Minnesota?

It's very tight...opinion polls suggests that right is before left with a very small gap: 1 or 2 points.

In the 2000 election, it was very tight too... Right tought have win but it was not...

Wait and see...

I'm not sure, he's lived in the US though. As well as in Sweden.

Y'know... Greek Politics used to be so polarised and entertaining... now look at it... *sighs*

Tweedle-Dum have beaten Tweedle-Dee by 5% (BBC)

What? WHAT?

Tweedle Dum (ND) have beaten Tweedle Dee (PASOK) by about 5%
Both parties platforms were identical.

Oh, no Papandreaou then... :(

In Greece politics has degenerated into a dynastic squabble... a Papandreaou will probably win in a few years time, followed by a Karamanlis... and so on.

Lol, yeah, i guess so...

CNN International has just reported that Papandreou has just made a concession speech, but that Karamanlis has not yet claimed victory.

Hooray for Karamanlis and New Democracy!!!  The conservative revolution in Europe continues!  Next stop, Sweden? *pokes Gustaf* :)

That would be nice...but I wouldn't bet on it. The Swedish Conservatives have now moved so far left that it's embarassing even for us... :(

Even if they win the next election there will be no conservative revolution.

The only difference between PASOK and ND is that ND admit to being conservatives...

lol

The only difference between the SAP and the M in Sweden is that the SAP admit to being social democrats...well, maybe not even that soon enough... :(

The only difference between Labour and the Tories in the UK is that the Tories admit to being Conservative...

its the same in all countries with a two party system; one party ends up centrist and one whatever wing. Here the Democrats are centrist and the GOP conservative; in Canada its the Liberals, Australia Labour, Germany CDU, etc., it's rather sad :(

Don't forget Belgium, with a majority with socialist party (and liberals too...(it's amazing for people who don't know Belgium politics))

But in wallonie (Belgium has 3 great regions: Flandre, Brussel and wallonie), Socialist party has 40%. Liberals (center-right)has 27% and green (left) has 8% and social-catholics (center) has 15%. Wallonie is left! no conservative revolution here!

Aha... not true anymore... Labour are being more honest about being social democrats... while the Tories have come over all... well... Gingrich...

I like Wallonia :)

I like Belgium.

But there's no Conservative Revolution in Greece, the swing was about 3%. And don't forget that the ND are in govermnet only because of the Election law, proportional elections would have lead to a coalition either of PASOK and ND or PASOK and some of Greece's left wing parties, KKE, Synapsismos and DIKKI.
Same goes for the 90's PASOK wins, of course.

Greece has a really, really weird electoral system...

There's a lot of people who like Belgium here... ???

If you like chocolate, moulds-frites, football, tennis and socialism (or Welfare state), you will like my country!

I like the working man's chocolate, Belgian chocolate is fancy but it doesn't beat the good ole Swedish Marabou... ;)

I don't really like French Fries, actually, I don't like socialism and I don't see what Belgium has to do with football...but tennis, I have to give you that. :)

I recommend reading "A Tall Man in a Low Land" by Harry Pearson. :D
After that, it's impossible not to like Belgium :)

sacrilege!;) Football is the number one sport in Belgium. Belgium was semi-finalist in 1986 world cup and better than France in 2002.

Where they were cheated from beating Brazil by a biased referee :(

Everyone was better than France in 2002... ;) Sweden has a better record than that in the world cup but I don't talk of Sweden as football nation just b/c of that...

lol but football is the main sport in Belgium. Not ski of another sport...

I spent four summers on the Belgian coast as a kid.
Taught me to like fries, dislike mussles, and not to fear jellyfish and cool water:)
And later I twice spent a few days in Brussels.

Without Belguim there would be no chips! And think of the Beer! :) :) :)

It's a nice little country. A bit mad perhaps (what over country could have produced Rene Magritte?), but I like that :)

Oh yeah. I was too young to know back then, but the Belgians brew the best beer in the world.
Leffe Radieuse!
Auderghem!

Can anyone explain to me how the Greek system of seats distribution works?
If compared with D'Hondt, it's more favorable to the largest party and to third parties, but horribly unfair to the second party.
There are even two constituencies in Greece (Piraeus B and Dodecanese) where PASOK got the most votes but ND got more mandates!

Basically Greek electoral Law says that the party that wins the most voters, has to have a majority in Parliament.

Well, I actually went through the results and D'Hondt would have served that purpose just as well...
In that case (without national threshold; with those 12 seats not redistributed to the constituencies treated as a national constituency) the final tally is ND 157 (instead of 165), PASOK 132 (117), KKE 6 (12), Synapsismos 3 (6), LAOS 1 (0), DIKKI 1 (0)

Yes... but people in Greece know that anything but a vote for the winners is wasted... which is great for ND and PASOK as it gets their supporters mobilised, but seriously... what's the point of having PR with a law like that?

Could you just explain how that law works?
Pleeeese?

I'm not sure of the fiddly bits and everything but...

The party that wins a plurality of the vote wins a majority of the seats. There is a 3% threshold to win seats.
I think that Greece uses a closed list system for each electoral district, which makes it easier to fiddle the results to give one side a majority.

I think that all votes to parties not above the trashold in an area goes to the winning party