Talk Elections

Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion => Congressional Elections => Topic started by: Tender Branson on January 09, 2010, 01:15:24 AM



Title: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Tender Branson on January 09, 2010, 01:15:24 AM
It`s about time for a poll on this race.

I`d vote for Coakley (G) of course.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on January 09, 2010, 01:16:22 AM
Scott Brown. Yes, I've been convinced.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Eraserhead on January 09, 2010, 01:26:08 AM
Very unexcited vote for Cokehead over Browneye, I guess.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Lief 🗽 on January 09, 2010, 01:57:00 AM
Coakley, duh. Massachusetts doesn't need to be represented by a teabagger.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on January 09, 2010, 11:09:59 AM
Coakley (D).


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: ajc0918 on January 09, 2010, 11:28:17 AM

:)

Scott Brown as well.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 09, 2010, 12:18:34 PM
Brown(R)


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Franzl on January 09, 2010, 12:51:26 PM
Coakley


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on January 09, 2010, 01:04:36 PM
Coakley so far, but she needs to get her act together.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: WalterMitty on January 09, 2010, 05:40:23 PM
coakley.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: CatoMinor on January 09, 2010, 08:14:44 PM
Scott Brown (R)


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Rob on January 09, 2010, 08:22:51 PM
In the special election for US Senate in Massachusetts, would you rather vote for a centrist Democrat or a right-wing douchebag?

Um, Coakley...


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon on January 09, 2010, 09:52:08 PM
Brown (R)


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: tmthforu94 on January 09, 2010, 09:57:52 PM
Brown
Coakley wouldn't be as bad as many, but I am starting to like Brown. He'll have a tough re-election though, if he manages to win.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: SamInTheSouth on January 09, 2010, 10:06:38 PM
Brown


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: ajc0918 on January 09, 2010, 10:07:10 PM
In the special election for US Senate in Massachusetts, would you rather vote for a centrist Democrat or a right-wing douchebag?

Um, Coakley...

Now THAT'S funny.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: SamInTheSouth on January 09, 2010, 10:08:29 PM
In the special election for US Senate in Massachusetts, would you rather vote for a centrist Democrat or a right-wing douchebag?

Um, Coakley...

Coakley is no centrist.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 09, 2010, 10:38:59 PM
In the special election for US Senate in Massachusetts, would you rather vote for a centrist Democrat or a right-wing douchebag?

Um, Coakley...

Coakley is no centrist.


Coakley a Centrist? ROTFLOL


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Eraserhead on January 10, 2010, 01:25:02 AM
The worst thing Coakley has going for her is WalterMitty's strong support. If there was ever such a thing as a political jinx, it is him.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Eraserhead on January 10, 2010, 01:26:53 AM
Brown
Coakley wouldn't be as bad as many, but I am starting to like Brown. He'll have a tough re-election though, if he manages to win.

Ya think?


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on January 10, 2010, 03:44:07 AM
The worst thing Coakley has going for her is WalterMitty's strong support. If there was ever such a thing as a political jinx, it is him.

Blech. Thanks for reminding me. I've said that WalterMitty is to politics as Armond White is to movies.

Still White did like No Country For Old Men, Adventureland and Where The Wild Things Are, so if so Walter isn't completely jinxed.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Lief 🗽 on January 10, 2010, 04:00:53 AM
um... didn't Walter vote for Obama?


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: zorkpolitics on January 10, 2010, 03:12:35 PM
Brown (R), time to bring party competition to MA and block Democratic hegemony in Congress


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Hash on January 10, 2010, 04:18:19 PM
Meh. Coakley (I), but an unenthusiastic vote at that.

I like a lot of MA Republicans when they're socially liberal and economically centrist, but Brown doesn't come close to fitting any of the above qualifications.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: ajc0918 on January 10, 2010, 07:50:03 PM
Coakley so far, but she needs to get her act together.

Why? as an independent(which I assume you are from you avatar), how can you vote for Coakley? She isn't going to be an independent voice, only a democrat rubber stamp. Brown at least needs to cross party lines to please constituents.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on January 10, 2010, 07:59:21 PM
Coakley so far, but she needs to get her act together.

Why? as an independent(which I assume you are from you avatar), how can you vote for Coakley? She isn't going to be an independent voice, only a democrat rubber stamp. Brown at least needs to cross party lines to please constituents.

He's a Former Romney Republican.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Sewer on January 10, 2010, 08:05:17 PM
Coakley


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on January 10, 2010, 08:11:22 PM
I would probably write in someone.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 10, 2010, 08:12:47 PM

why?


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Rowan on January 10, 2010, 08:16:30 PM

Scott Brown wants to kill babies.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 10, 2010, 08:33:21 PM

Well then he should just think of it as vote against Obama and Coakley rather then for Scott Brown. This is the Waterloo that DeMint spoke. Its like the Michigan special election in 1931 that signaled no Republicans were safe anywhere even in there own base districts. We win here and Obama his finished for the rest of the year. By next Congress we will have 45 or 46 Senate seats. He needs to look at the larger goal. And Brown will be gone by 2013 anyway. We win here and any Democrat even in 15% Obama districts could be vulnerable in 2010.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Psychic Octopus on January 10, 2010, 08:37:54 PM
SCOTT BROWN


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on January 10, 2010, 08:39:55 PM

Well then he should just think of it as vote against Obama and Coakley rather then for Scott Brown. This is the Waterloo that DeMint spoke. Its like the Michigan special election in 1931 that signaled no Republicans were safe anywhere even in there own base districts. We win here and Obama his finished for the rest of the year. By next Congress we will have 45 or 46 Senate seats. He needs to look at the larger goal. And Brown will be gone by 2013 anyway. We win here and any Democrat even in 15% Obama districts could be vulnerable in 2010.

I <3 it when people made cold political calculation instead of policy proposals!


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 10, 2010, 08:45:17 PM

Well then he should just think of it as vote against Obama and Coakley rather then for Scott Brown. This is the Waterloo that DeMint spoke. Its like the Michigan special election in 1931 that signaled no Republicans were safe anywhere even in there own base districts. We win here and Obama his finished for the rest of the year. By next Congress we will have 45 or 46 Senate seats. He needs to look at the larger goal. And Brown will be gone by 2013 anyway. We win here and any Democrat even in 15% Obama districts could be vulnerable in 2010.

I <3 it when people made cold political calculation instead of policy proposals!

Don't play dumb with me Marokai. Politics and Policy Proposals run hand in hand. You can't offer your policy proposals till you are in control, and to get in control you need to destroy your opponents and knock them out of office. Winning this seat helps further that.


Think about it Marokai. Would your policy proposals have stood a Ice cube's chance in hell if we had Mitt Romney as President with 48 Senate seats and 190 members in the House right now? No. And what put Obama in the White House? The Financial Crisis of late 2008, not his proposals. Get my point?


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on January 10, 2010, 08:46:58 PM

Well then he should just think of it as vote against Obama and Coakley rather then for Scott Brown. This is the Waterloo that DeMint spoke. Its like the Michigan special election in 1931 that signaled no Republicans were safe anywhere even in there own base districts. We win here and Obama his finished for the rest of the year. By next Congress we will have 45 or 46 Senate seats. He needs to look at the larger goal. And Brown will be gone by 2013 anyway. We win here and any Democrat even in 15% Obama districts could be vulnerable in 2010.

I <3 it when people made cold political calculation instead of policy proposals!

Don't play dumb with me Marokai. Politics and Policy Proposals run hand in hand. You can't offer your policy proposals till you are in control, and to get in control you need to destroy your opponents and knock them out of office. Winning this seat helps further that.

Oh yeah, remember the Democrats? They proposed nothing until they got in control, right? What we really should do is vote for people on the hope they'll come up with something.

It's the only way.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on January 10, 2010, 08:50:52 PM
If it looks like an actually winnable race come election day, Brown.

Otherwise, Kennedy.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 10, 2010, 08:54:30 PM

Well then he should just think of it as vote against Obama and Coakley rather then for Scott Brown. This is the Waterloo that DeMint spoke. Its like the Michigan special election in 1931 that signaled no Republicans were safe anywhere even in there own base districts. We win here and Obama his finished for the rest of the year. By next Congress we will have 45 or 46 Senate seats. He needs to look at the larger goal. And Brown will be gone by 2013 anyway. We win here and any Democrat even in 15% Obama districts could be vulnerable in 2010.

I <3 it when people made cold political calculation instead of policy proposals!

Don't play dumb with me Marokai. Politics and Policy Proposals run hand in hand. You can't offer your policy proposals till you are in control, and to get in control you need to destroy your opponents and knock them out of office. Winning this seat helps further that.

Oh yeah, remember the Democrats? They proposed nothing until they got in control, right? What we really should do is vote for people on the hope they'll come up with something.

It's the only way.

Actually technically the Democrats haven't come up with anything in decades. They did come up with a lot of sh**t I will grant you that but thats not saying much.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Vepres on January 10, 2010, 08:56:45 PM
The one that comes from the party that doesn't control the entire state. (I)

Edit: Scott Brown is a moderate IMO. It appears he would not support repealing Roe v. Wade nor would he vote for a constitutional amendment to define marriage as between a man and a women.

Oh, and his election would effectively make Democrats start over on healthcare ;D


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on January 10, 2010, 09:01:16 PM
The one that comes from the party that doesn't control the entire state. (I)

Is that how you make all your political decisions; voting, who to criticize, etc? Just whoever has power?


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 10, 2010, 09:02:58 PM
The one that comes from the party that doesn't control the entire state. (I)

Is that how you make all your political decisions; voting, who to criticize, etc? Just whoever has power?

In a state overrun by wacko Liberals the only to be Independent is to vote Republican.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Vepres on January 10, 2010, 09:09:40 PM
The one that comes from the party that doesn't control the entire state. (I)

Is that how you make all your political decisions; voting, who to criticize, etc? Just whoever has power?

No. Off the top of my head, I support Mark Udall, Orrin Hatch, Ron Wyden. Massachusetts is the only state that hasn't elected or reelected a person from the state's minority party in almost a decade (8 years), making it a unique exception.

I support Brown because he seems to be reasonably moderate on social issues and him being elected would effectively kill the current healthcare bill.

Besides, I have yet to know of a sitting Republican in New England I didn't like (not including state legislature, county offices, etc).


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Vepres on January 10, 2010, 09:10:01 PM
The one that comes from the party that doesn't control the entire state. (I)

Is that how you make all your political decisions; voting, who to criticize, etc? Just whoever has power?

In a state overrun by wacko Liberals the only way to be Independent is to vote Republican.

Oh, and this :P


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 10, 2010, 09:11:56 PM
Marokai, how is this any different then Liberals voting for Blue Dogs like Jason Altmire, Heath Shuler, Jim Marshall or Gene Taylor? Or supporting very conservative candidates in Red states because they are the only ones that can win there? Because having your party in controll increases the liklihood that you will get some of your policies enacted. Look I me I support primarying of all Amnesty supporters but only in Red states and give people like the Maine ladies a free pass. Why? Because that is the best I can hope for in Maine. Whereas I know we can do better then some of these Amnesty supporters in Red or Swing States. I oppose most pork barrelers regardless of state or ideology. Those are the only two real deal breakers for me. Other then I don't give a damn if the candidate is Pro-Gay or Pro-Abortion, or whatever. I supported Lynn Jenkins in the general election in KS-02 for the same reason. She was a tax hiker and pro-choice. However she was tough on border security, pork spending and got us the House seat back.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on January 10, 2010, 09:23:07 PM
Marokai, how is this any different then Liberals voting for Blue Dogs like Jason Altmire, Heath Shuler, Jim Marshall or Gene Taylor? Or supporting very conservative candidates in Red states because they are the only ones that can win there? Because having your party in controll increases the liklihood that you will get some of your policies enacted. Look I me I support primarying of all Amnesty supporters but only in Red states and give people like the Maine ladies a free pass. Why? Because that is the best I can hope for in Maine. Whereas I know we can do better then some of these Amnesty supporters in Red or Swing States. I oppose most pork barrelers regardless of state or ideology. Those are the only two real deal breakers for me. Other then I don't give a damn if the candidate is Pro-Gay or Pro-Abortion, or whatever. I supported Lynn Jenkins in the general election in KS-02 for the same reason. She was a tax hiker and pro-choice. However she was tough on border security, pork spending and got us the House seat back.

It's not really the fact that you're supporting him that irks me. You can support him if you like, and it makes sense to support someone over another if the "other" is someone who is so contrary to your beliefs, though it bothers me a teeny tiny bit because I don't really think people actually understand anything about Scott Brown other than "he's kinda pro-choice and he's not a Democrat" I'm willing to let that go.

My beef with Vepres is that he seems to base all of his political endorsements or his positions or his choices of targets to criticize soley on who is in power. If Republicans controlled congress and the Presidency right now, I'd happily bet you fifty dollars he'd be cheering on the Democrat. Vepres' sort of backward idea of how a government should be arranged is a recipe for an utterly deadlocked and paralyzed nation that accomplishes nothing but the most watered-down slap-on-the-wrist reforms and changes.

But that's neither here nor there.

My problem is a broader one, one I brought up with you to begin with. People are supporting the Republican to play a part in the grander scheme of things. Which is what? The right-wing opposition right now seems, to me, to be a movement based on complete and utter ignorance and an unwillingness to go along with any deviation from the status-quo. It doesn't care what the situation is, it doesn't care what the facts are, it doesn't care if something is effective or not, the movement does not care about the truth. And it's let to the Republican party having no message. no policy proposals to flaunt, nothing at all to run on.

What they are running on is, "stop the Democrats" and I simply find that to be absurd. The Republicans aren't running on anything at all, they have no ideas of their own, no solutions whatsoever, but people will happily line up in support of someone who, Hoffman from New York as one of my previous examples, doesn't care about policymaking or any of that complicated "work" stuff.

It simply baffles me that a party that has proposed absolutely nothing of it's own can actually run and possibly win on such a message, and that people such as yourself justify this complete lack of substance by saying "well, maybe when he gets in, we'll come up with something!" It's dangerous, and it's irresponsible, and it's just stupid.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on January 10, 2010, 10:13:44 PM
What they are running on is, "stop the Democrats" and I simply find that to be absurd. The Republicans aren't running on anything at all, they have no ideas of their own, no solutions whatsoever, but people will happily line up in support of someone who, Hoffman from New York as one of my previous examples, doesn't care about policymaking or any of that complicated "work" stuff.
Better nothing at all than something horrible, which is what the Democrats are running on.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 10, 2010, 10:23:54 PM
Marokai, how is this any different then Liberals voting for Blue Dogs like Jason Altmire, Heath Shuler, Jim Marshall or Gene Taylor? Or supporting very conservative candidates in Red states because they are the only ones that can win there? Because having your party in controll increases the liklihood that you will get some of your policies enacted. Look I me I support primarying of all Amnesty supporters but only in Red states and give people like the Maine ladies a free pass. Why? Because that is the best I can hope for in Maine. Whereas I know we can do better then some of these Amnesty supporters in Red or Swing States. I oppose most pork barrelers regardless of state or ideology. Those are the only two real deal breakers for me. Other then I don't give a damn if the candidate is Pro-Gay or Pro-Abortion, or whatever. I supported Lynn Jenkins in the general election in KS-02 for the same reason. She was a tax hiker and pro-choice. However she was tough on border security, pork spending and got us the House seat back.

It's not really the fact that you're supporting him that irks me. You can support him if you like, and it makes sense to support someone over another if the "other" is someone who is so contrary to your beliefs, though it bothers me a teeny tiny bit because I don't really think people actually understand anything about Scott Brown other than "he's kinda pro-choice and he's not a Democrat" I'm willing to let that go.

My beef with Vepres is that he seems to base all of his political endorsements or his positions or his choices of targets to criticize soley on who is in power. If Republicans controlled congress and the Presidency right now, I'd happily bet you fifty dollars he'd be cheering on the Democrat. Vepres' sort of backward idea of how a government should be arranged is a recipe for an utterly deadlocked and paralyzed nation that accomplishes nothing but the most watered-down slap-on-the-wrist reforms and changes.

But that's neither here nor there.

My problem is a broader one, one I brought up with you to begin with. People are supporting the Republican to play a part in the grander scheme of things. Which is what? The right-wing opposition right now seems, to me, to be a movement based on complete and utter ignorance and an unwillingness to go along with any deviation from the status-quo. It doesn't care what the situation is, it doesn't care what the facts are, it doesn't care if something is effective or not, the movement does not care about the truth. And it's let to the Republican party having no message. no policy proposals to flaunt, nothing at all to run on.

What they are running on is, "stop the Democrats" and I simply find that to be absurd. The Republicans aren't running on anything at all, they have no ideas of their own, no solutions whatsoever, but people will happily line up in support of someone who, Hoffman from New York as one of my previous examples, doesn't care about policymaking or any of that complicated "work" stuff.

It simply baffles me that a party that has proposed absolutely nothing of it's own can actually run and possibly win on such a message, and that people such as yourself justify this complete lack of substance by saying "well, maybe when he gets in, we'll come up with something!" It's dangerous, and it's irresponsible, and it's just stupid.

Marokai, what do you want. You want us to kneel down and accept a Public Option that will just create another bankrupt entitlement and won't solve the problems. And don't you dare throw the fact that even a non-public option bill won't get GOP supports. Thats you guys fault for pushing the public option so long, letting Dem leaders ignore us, and stipping good parts of the bill to try and save the public option.  That we should just sit back and accept Climate change legislation that risks sending millions of jobs overseas with mere "hopes" that it will create new industries, based on a "debateable" theory. That we should sit back and watch as Barack Obama restarts that great Wave of Illegal Immigration by passing Amnesty with only show piece border security and faux crackdowns on employers. The idea that we have proposed nothing is created by your leftward bias. It should be phrased, "You haven't offered anything, I like" lol. Well Marokai, thats why you are a Democrat aren't you? Get mad, get glad and get over it.

I prefer the crossroads or inflection point analogy of Romney. We can go left or right. Either way American will be fundamentally changed. But the idea that the GOP fights for no reforms is nonesense. In 2012 our nominee, if he is too win, will have to have a set of reforms in mind on Education, Health care, and Energy. These will not be cave ins to utopian visions of Liberals such as yourself either.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Lincoln Republican on January 10, 2010, 10:41:31 PM
Scott Brown or most anyone else who is not a Kennedy patsy.

Although I really cannot see a Republican winning this Senate seat, not in Leftist  Massachusetts.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 10, 2010, 10:45:43 PM
Currently its:

Coakley(D) 52.8%
Brown(R)    45.2%
Kennedy(I)   1.9%


Wouldn't be surprised if thats the final result of the special election.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Vepres on January 10, 2010, 11:34:28 PM
I was just thinking about how hilarious it would be if Coakley lost because Kennedy the independent stole a few % points from her.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Psychic Octopus on January 10, 2010, 11:41:31 PM
I was just thinking about how hilarious it would be if Coakley lost because Kennedy the independent stole a few % points from her.

I can actually see that happening (The Kennedy name stealing votes, not her losing, although I hope Brown wins).


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on January 11, 2010, 12:21:56 AM
Brown (R)


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: nhmagic on January 11, 2010, 02:03:55 AM
Brown in a heartbeat.   It's one of the last shots we have at taking down that villainous healthcare scheme that violates the first, tenth and fourteenth amendments to the constitution.  And Yankee, not all of the GOP supports "universal coverage".  That is Rat verbiage, which we do not use.  The word "universal" has a highly positive connotation that does not match the reality of its primary purpose which Rats look to create - which is single-payer government run healthcare that allows complete financial access into an individual's life.  It also implies a federal government mandate and regulation of some kind.  Most conservatives support the right to choose whether a person wants insurance or not. 


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 11, 2010, 07:25:29 AM
Brown in a heartbeat.   It's one of the last shots we have at taking down that villainous healthcare scheme that violates the first, tenth and fourteenth amendments to the constitution.  And Yankee, not all of the GOP supports "universal coverage".  That is Rat verbiage, which we do not use.  The word "universal" has a highly positive connotation that does not match the reality of its primary purpose which Rats look to create - which is single-payer government run healthcare that allows complete financial access into an individual's life.  It also implies a federal government mandate and regulation of some kind.  Most conservatives support the right to choose whether a person wants insurance or not. 

Should have used different terminology but if Obama had started with what he had in Sept when he gave his speech to congress, minus the Public Option and mandated coverage but with some other provisions that weren't in that, it would have passed with 80 Votes. But yeah, this wasn't about health Care reform it was about getting the Liberal wet dream of a public option to eventually get to the socialist wet dream of single payer.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: JohnnyLongtorso on January 11, 2010, 07:29:00 AM
Brown in a heartbeat.   It's one of the last shots we have at taking down that villainous healthcare scheme that violates the first, tenth and fourteenth amendments to the constitution.  And Yankee, not all of the GOP supports "universal coverage".  That is Rat verbiage, which we do not use.  The word "universal" has a highly positive connotation that does not match the reality of its primary purpose which Rats look to create - which is single-payer government run healthcare that allows complete financial access into an individual's life.  It also implies a federal government mandate and regulation of some kind.  Most conservatives support the right to choose whether a person wants insurance or not. 

Should have used different terminology but if Obama had started with what he had in Sept when he gave his speech to congress, minus the Public Option and mandated coverage but with some other provisions that weren't in that, it would have passed with 80 Votes. But yeah, this wasn't about health Care reform it was about getting the Liberal wet dream of a public option to eventually get to the socialist wet dream of single payer.

Do we really need an argument about health care in a thread about Massachusetts?


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Franzl on January 11, 2010, 07:37:32 AM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on January 11, 2010, 08:50:42 AM
Brown in a heartbeat.   It's one of the last shots we have at taking down that villainous healthcare scheme that violates the first, tenth and fourteenth amendments to the constitution.  And Yankee, not all of the GOP supports "universal coverage".  That is Rat verbiage, which we do not use.  The word "universal" has a highly positive connotation that does not match the reality of its primary purpose which Rats look to create - which is single-payer government run healthcare that allows complete financial access into an individual's life.  It also implies a federal government mandate and regulation of some kind.  Most conservatives support the right to choose whether a person wants insurance or not. 

Should have used different terminology but if Obama had started with what he had in Sept when he gave his speech to congress, minus the Public Option and mandated coverage but with some other provisions that weren't in that, it would have passed with 80 Votes. But yeah, this wasn't about health Care reform it was about getting the Liberal wet dream of a public option to eventually get to the socialist wet dream of single payer.

Do we really need an argument about health care in a thread about Massachusetts?

No, we don't

Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

We can't be sure of that. I am inclined to think that if Obama had restrained Pelosi and Reid from treating us like crap during the Stimulus and stuff and completely, thinks would have been different. The cooler heads in the GOP like Hatch, Grassely, Alexander, Corker, Isakson would have voted for a less controversial bill. You guys have no one to blame but yourselves. This isn't a European parliament and as such you have to be actually willing to work with the minority to get stuff done. The alienation of the GOP caucus is Obama's fault. DeMint, Coburn would have been a loud but irrelevant side show, but instead of that Obama empowered them but giving a free hand to congress on everything and letting Pelosi continue her most corrupt congress in history that she had established in 2007, which included alienating all hope of Republican input. I really hope the GOP takes back the House in 2010.

The other miscalculation the Dems made was that American had shifted to being a Center Left country, in a way opposition to Obama is making it more Center-Right.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Franzl on January 11, 2010, 09:21:39 AM
One thing I do wonder though, if you demand minority input on every piece of legislation, saying the majority has no right to push its agenda through, what are elections ultimately for then?


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Vepres on January 11, 2010, 02:30:08 PM
One thing I do wonder though, if you demand minority input on every piece of legislation, saying the majority has no right to push its agenda through, what are elections ultimately for then?

Uh, the Gingrich congress and Bush's Republican congress got lots done.

The majority has a right to push it's agenda, but not without checks. Like Yankee said, a reasonable, monderate, though still Democrat-leaning healthcare bill would've passed.

The majority here doesn't cancel elections because it will lose.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Vepres on January 11, 2010, 02:32:37 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Franzl on January 11, 2010, 03:11:59 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)

I would indeed. That's the point of democracy.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on January 11, 2010, 03:19:44 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)

I would indeed. That's the point of democracy.


The U.S. is not a democracy, sorry.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Alexander Hamilton on January 11, 2010, 03:21:15 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)

I would indeed. That's the point of democracy.


The U.S. is not a democracy, sorry.

Franzl doesn't understand the purpose of the Senate anyways, so don't even bother.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Franzl on January 11, 2010, 03:21:32 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)

I would indeed. That's the point of democracy.


The U.S. is not a democracy, sorry.

Look I'm not getting into this Democracy v. Republic debate again. It's pointless debating that issue with trolls such as yourself, considering that you ignore widely accepted definitions.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Verily on January 11, 2010, 03:21:48 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)

I would indeed. That's the point of democracy.


The U.S. is not a democracy, sorry.

Indeed; his argument would have held even more water if he had said that the US is a republic. If you're going to attack him for not making his argument strong enough, be my guest, but you look like an idiot.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Franzl on January 11, 2010, 03:23:15 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)

I would indeed. That's the point of democracy.


The U.S. is not a democracy, sorry.

Franzl doesn't understand the purpose of the Senate anyways, so don't even bother.

Who determines what the purpose of the Senate is? The founding fathers again?

Why should it be relevant in current debates about how the Senate should be?


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on January 11, 2010, 03:23:52 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)

I would indeed. That's the point of democracy.


The U.S. is not a democracy, sorry.

Indeed; his argument would have held even more water if he had said that the US is a republic. If you're going to attack him for not making his argument strong enough, be my guest, but you look like an idiot.

Your post doesn't even make sense. I think you should look in the mirror.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl on January 11, 2010, 03:25:13 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)

I would indeed. That's the point of democracy.


The U.S. is not a democracy, sorry.

Look I'm not getting into this Democracy v. Republic debate again. It's pointless debating that issue with trolls such as yourself, considering that you ignore widely accepted definitions.

Oh I see, you have no argument, so you report to ad hominem attacks.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Verily on January 11, 2010, 05:46:56 PM
Yankee, you may have worked constructively on healthcare as a senator, but I tend to doubt that the GOP ever intended to cooperate in any way on healthcare.

Not that I demand that, that's perfectly fine as they're a pathetic minority, which shouldn't have any influence on the legislative process anyway.

Only thing is the Democratic caucus needs to hold its votes together.

Like you'd say that if Republicans were in power ::)

I would indeed. That's the point of democracy.


The U.S. is not a democracy, sorry.

Indeed; his argument would have held even more water if he had said that the US is a republic. If you're going to attack him for not making his argument strong enough, be my guest, but you look like an idiot.

Your post doesn't even make sense. I think you should look in the mirror.

It should be blatantly obvious.

In a democratic system, governance results from a strict majority vote of the people. In such a case, strictly speaking, compromise is not necessary except to garner majority support. However, compromise probably would be necessary on almost everything in the US if each proposal were to require majority support among the populace at large.

However, the US is a republic. Instead of voting on everything, we elect representatives who vote on things for us. Once again, governance results form a strict majority, but this time, that strict majority is the majority of representatives rather than the majority of the people. the majority of representatives need not even represent a majority will nationally--often, in fact, they do not.

The politicians in office are free to form whatever coalitions for majorities that they want in a republic. In this particular case of the US, those coalitions consist of the Democrats and the Republicans. They are certainly permitted to form coalitions outside of this formulation in order to pass certain legislation, but that runs contrary to their internal attempts to form permanent working coalitions in order to govern. A republican system consisting entirely of the politically unaffiliated inevitably collapses because it is unable to agree on anything without each individual demanding further concessions to his or her own position--it's the prisoner's dilemma writ large. The party coalitions are the only thing that prevent such a prisoner's dilemma situation from taking over by creating a social environment that encourages cooperation within coalition groups.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: live free or die on January 11, 2010, 06:02:57 PM
Brown (I/R).

He's a solid moderate who has run a strong campaign. I'd be glad to see him replace Shaheen. :P


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: true liberty on January 11, 2010, 06:15:09 PM
brown. its time we kill this healthcare bill.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on January 11, 2010, 07:44:20 PM
Brown (I/R).

He's a solid moderate who has run a strong campaign. I'd be glad to see him replace Shaheen. :P

Brown's not a moderate.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on January 11, 2010, 07:46:05 PM
Brown (I/R).

He's a solid moderate who has run a strong campaign. I'd be glad to see him replace Shaheen. :P

Brown's not a moderate.

But but but, he's sorta kinda maybe pro-choice-ish!


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on January 11, 2010, 08:03:14 PM
According to some a fascist dictatorship with legal abortion and civil unions would be a "moderate" government (see those who called Rudy Giuliani a moderate.)


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: redcommander on January 11, 2010, 08:08:41 PM
Saw the debate on online streaming, and Brown won it in a landslide according to most viewers. Coakley again seemed impersonal, and she didn't leave her same talking points and take a political risk. She clearly blew her final chance to get momentum back to her campaign.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on January 11, 2010, 09:44:32 PM
Saw the debate on online streaming, and Brown won it in a landslide according to most viewers. Coakley again seemed impersonal, and she didn't leave her same talking points and take a political risk. She clearly blew her final chance to get momentum back to her campaign.

"Her final chance?"

She's winning by a lot.


Title: Re: MA Senate Special Election Poll
Post by: Vepres on January 11, 2010, 10:13:36 PM
Saw the debate on online streaming, and Brown won it in a landslide according to most viewers. Coakley again seemed impersonal, and she didn't leave her same talking points and take a political risk. She clearly blew her final chance to get momentum back to her campaign.

"Her final chance?"

She's winning by a lot.

There is a difference between leading and having momentum.