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Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion => Congressional Elections => Topic started by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 11, 2010, 09:46:01 PM



Title: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on October 11, 2010, 09:46:01 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43415.html (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43415.html)


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Beet on October 11, 2010, 09:52:46 PM
Well this isn't going to look going to look good especially after his "vote for me because I don't wear heels" comment. While that was arguably a meaningless gaffe or joke, this is significantly more substantive.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: DrScholl on October 11, 2010, 10:13:22 PM
Somehow, that does not surprise me coming from him. The GOP really picked some choice candidates this year.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: SvenssonRS on October 11, 2010, 10:17:24 PM
Somehow, that does not surprise me coming from him. The GOP really picked some choice candidates this year.

Most of them don't have such massive closetfuls of skeletons.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Eraserhead on October 11, 2010, 10:24:41 PM
I saw this earlier. I imagine this could be a pretty big deal. We'll just have to wait and see.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Meeker on October 11, 2010, 10:27:17 PM
Excellent. This race will only need a few points to swing away from Buck.

I also saw a brief headline earlier today that Ron Johnson hired a pedophile or something.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: SvenssonRS on October 11, 2010, 10:29:27 PM
I also saw a brief headline earlier today that Ron Johnson hired a pedophile or something.

Which will only make a remote difference if Johnson knew so in advance. Otherwise, it's an accident.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Eraserhead on October 11, 2010, 10:36:57 PM
I also saw a brief headline earlier today that Ron Johnson hired a pedophile or something.

Don't get my hopes up. :P


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on October 11, 2010, 10:38:52 PM
Its very damaging. Certainly he probably shouldn't have been talking with her about it over the phone anyway but instead in person. And secondly throwing the blame on her just because the evidence was lacking or whatnot seemed like poor judgement and he should have remained impartial.

The most important aspect would be the conformity of opinion among the all those involved that it shouldn't be prosecuted. Atleast then he can avoid the even more damaging allegation that he let a crook off the hook because of his personal bias. His demeanor and response are enough however to sink him depending on how his response to the allegation is received and whether he can refute any charges that he is against woman or whatnot.


This is a very orchestrated way to make the race about abortion without ending up like many candidates who resort to that out of desperation.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Psychic Octopus on October 11, 2010, 10:46:35 PM
How Buck responds in the next twenty-four hours will make or break this race. If he wants to win, he better come up with a damn good explanation.

After reading more into it, I don't think it sinks him, but it does distract from the race for a while. I personally think that if handled right, it will blow over. But what do I know.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Lunar on October 11, 2010, 11:27:09 PM

This is a woman being raped man, this isn't a gaffe


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Meeker on October 11, 2010, 11:28:15 PM

The incident in question is obviously horrendous. But it's better that it came out now as opposed to later on so the voters can keep this in mind.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on October 11, 2010, 11:46:37 PM
     So people are just getting upset over him speaking brusquely to someone seeking to file charges? His words were poorly chosen, but his basic point that it was not a winnable case needed to be made.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Tender Branson on October 12, 2010, 01:05:38 AM
The CO GOP never stops surprising me in a positive way (well, not positive for the woman of course) ... :P


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on October 12, 2010, 01:10:46 AM
Sounds like it might've been a bit of a no-win situation for Buck. If he had pressed charges he might be accused of railroading the guy now (without all the details of course, there could've been strong evidence, really can't tell from the article.)

Not saying that he handled it in a great manner with the way he spoke to the victim.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Dgov on October 12, 2010, 03:21:17 AM
I have a feeling this is a trumped-up hit job.  If this was a real sinker for the Buck Campaign, it would have come out months ago given that this was a very public case.

Also, when the DA of BOULDER COUNTY is agreeing with a Republican on a thorny issue, odds are that there's nothing here to go on.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Torie on October 12, 2010, 04:32:19 AM
I don't think this dog is going to hunt for the Dems.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on October 12, 2010, 06:21:22 AM
They don't make October surprises the way they used to.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: redcommander on October 12, 2010, 09:00:38 AM
I knew Republicans should have nominated Norton.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 12, 2010, 10:03:26 AM
so, Buck isn't even the one blamed for the rape, but was just the DA who refused to bring charges because the case was weak since the woman was drunk and invited the ex-boyfriend over?!

please!  this makes Buck look good, not bad.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: DrScholl on October 12, 2010, 10:37:06 AM
It's the "buyer's remorse" comment that is that problem, for him to say that makes it look like he was blaming the woman and that was not right. It's one thing to believe he didn't have a case, it's another to pass judgment like that. He needed to choose his words better.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Vepres on October 12, 2010, 12:39:54 PM
It's the "buyer's remorse" comment that is that problem, for him to say that makes it look like he was blaming the woman and that was not right. It's one thing to believe he didn't have a case, it's another to pass judgment like that. He needed to choose his words better.

It seems that she invited him into her apartment and never verbally protested his advances. Poor word choice, but he (Buck) was basically arguing that she could not win the case.

I should also note that this story isn't even on the Denver Post website.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Vepres on October 12, 2010, 12:46:55 PM
If Bennet pushes this, and then it turns out to be a non-story, does that potentially backfire on him? I could see that happening, similar to Grayson's "submit to me" ad.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 12, 2010, 12:51:00 PM
It seems that she invited him into her apartment and never verbally protested his advances.

and, she was drunk and the man was her former lover.  Probably 95% of adults would agree with the DA's decision not press charges.  It would be a total waste of taxpayer money.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Vepres on October 12, 2010, 12:53:23 PM
It seems that she invited him into her apartment and never verbally protested his advances.

and, she was drunk and the man was her former lover.  Probably 95% of adults would agree with the DA's decision not press charges.  It would be a total waste of taxpayer money.

Exactly, hence why I think this will backfire if Bennet tries to make an issue out of it. Besides, Buck is good at handling these things. The "I don't wear high heals" comment blew over, after all.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 12, 2010, 12:57:24 PM
I think some people around here are really grasping at straws. This has to be one of the worst possible October Surprise ideas.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Meeker on October 12, 2010, 12:58:59 PM
http://coloradoindependent.com/63925/suspect-in-troubling-05-buck-case-said-he-knew-it-was-rape

Quote
Victim: “You do realize that … it’s rape.”

Suspect: “Yeah, I do.”

Victim: “Like in a number of different ways, because I didn’t want to do it and because I was intoxicated and because I was afraid.”

Suspect: “Yes I do. I know.”


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: feeblepizza on October 12, 2010, 01:00:54 PM
     So people are just getting upset over him speaking brusquely to someone seeking to file charges? His words were poorly chosen, but his basic point that it was not a winnable case needed to be made.

I agree, although I think that this may be Buck's downfall.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 12, 2010, 01:03:31 PM
http://coloradoindependent.com/63925/suspect-in-troubling-05-buck-case-said-he-knew-it-was-rape

Quote
Victim: “You do realize that … it’s rape.”

Suspect: “Yeah, I do.”

Victim: “Like in a number of different ways, because I didn’t want to do it and because I was intoxicated and because I was afraid.”

Suspect: “Yes I do. I know.”

none of those constitute rape, otherwise I could have pressed charges against several girls in my past....also she had willingly put out for him before


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: cinyc on October 12, 2010, 01:06:47 PM
One of the reasons we elect, not appoint DAs in most places is because we give them discretion as to whether and when to bring charges.  For a DA, doing justice doesn't mean indicting everyone who might be guilty, but bringing cases against people, who in his or her judgment, are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.  

Buck was absolutely right that in this case, it was going to be near impossible to get a conviction.  And that the Boulder County DA, hardly a redneck jurisdiction, agreed with his decision not to prosecute bolsters his decision here.

To those seeking to politicize justice, a DA running for another public office is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.  Had Buck prosecuted this case and lost, the fact that he railroaded someone who was found not guilty could equally have been raised by his opponent - as some of Coakley's prosecutorial decisions were in Massachusetts.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Brittain33 on October 12, 2010, 01:07:58 PM
none of those constitute rape, otherwise I could have pressed charges against several girls in my past....also she had willingly put out for him before

I'm pretty sure that having intercourse with someone who is unconscious is rape. There may be various legally mitigating factors, like whether he was aware of what he was doing, but it is still rape because she couldn't consent.

As far as what you've done in the past, public awareness of what constitutes rape or not has come a long way in the last several decades.

That said, I make no claims about how this plays with the public.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Meeker on October 12, 2010, 01:10:57 PM
http://coloradoindependent.com/63925/suspect-in-troubling-05-buck-case-said-he-knew-it-was-rape

Quote
Victim: “You do realize that … it’s rape.”

Suspect: “Yeah, I do.”

Victim: “Like in a number of different ways, because I didn’t want to do it and because I was intoxicated and because I was afraid.”

Suspect: “Yes I do. I know.”

none of those constitute rape, otherwise I could have pressed charges against several girls in my past....also she had willingly put out for him before

I'm not an expert on criminal rape law, but in the sexual harassment lectures I've had to sit through for various jobs and groups I'm a part of I've always been taught that without verbal consent of both parties the sexual acts are rape. Especially if one of the parties in question is impaired in some way. The fact that they'd had sex before isn't relevant at all; rapes occur between people that have had sexual contact in the past all the time.

None of that really matters in a discussion of the race though. Perhaps Buck did act correctly; I don't know and I don't really care. There are a lot of women in Colorado who, if this story continues to circulate, are not going to approve of Buck's actions here. Whether or not they're "correct" in those views is irrelevant to a discussion of the political ramifications of this.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: dmmidmi on October 12, 2010, 01:22:45 PM
http://coloradoindependent.com/63925/suspect-in-troubling-05-buck-case-said-he-knew-it-was-rape

Quote
Victim: “You do realize that … it’s rape.”

Suspect: “Yeah, I do.”

Victim: “Like in a number of different ways, because I didn’t want to do it and because I was intoxicated and because I was afraid.”

Suspect: “Yes I do. I know.”

none of those constitute rape, otherwise I could have pressed charges against several girls in my past....also she had willingly put out for him before

http://www.lawinfoboulder.com/colorado_statutes/sexual_unlawful_contact.html

Quote
Any actor who knowingly subjects a victim to any sexual contact commits unlawful sexual contact if:
(a) The actor knows that the victim does not consent

At the very least, this would definitely be classified as Unlawful Sexual Contact. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that if they engaged in sexual intercourse without her direct consent, then he committed a very serious crime (high misdemeanor or felony).


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Vepres on October 12, 2010, 04:57:44 PM
http://coloradoindependent.com/63925/suspect-in-troubling-05-buck-case-said-he-knew-it-was-rape

Quote
Victim: “You do realize that … it’s rape.”

Suspect: “Yeah, I do.”

Victim: “Like in a number of different ways, because I didn’t want to do it and because I was intoxicated and because I was afraid.”

Suspect: “Yes I do. I know.”

none of those constitute rape, otherwise I could have pressed charges against several girls in my past....also she had willingly put out for him before

http://www.lawinfoboulder.com/colorado_statutes/sexual_unlawful_contact.html

Quote
Any actor who knowingly subjects a victim to any sexual contact commits unlawful sexual contact if:
(a) The actor knows that the victim does not consent

At the very least, this would definitely be classified as Unlawful Sexual Contact. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that if they engaged in sexual intercourse without her direct consent, then he committed a very serious crime (high misdemeanor or felony).

But as Buck said, a jury would never side with her.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on October 12, 2010, 05:05:53 PM
http://coloradoindependent.com/63925/suspect-in-troubling-05-buck-case-said-he-knew-it-was-rape

Quote
Victim: “You do realize that … it’s rape.”

Suspect: “Yeah, I do.”

Victim: “Like in a number of different ways, because I didn’t want to do it and because I was intoxicated and because I was afraid.”

Suspect: “Yes I do. I know.”

none of those constitute rape, otherwise I could have pressed charges against several girls in my past....also she had willingly put out for him before

If you think someone being coerced into sex after refusing to consent isn't rape you should be banned from this site.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: J. J. on October 12, 2010, 05:14:18 PM
Had he tried a case this weak, he would have accused of ruining the suspect's life.  Dead end, and it might help Buck.


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 12, 2010, 08:33:25 PM
If you think someone being coerced into sex after refusing to consent isn't rape you should be banned from this site.

dude, you really really really need to go and learn the difference between paper law and trial law, for you would absolutely suck as a DA


Title: Re: CO Senate race: Possible October Surprise
Post by: Ebowed on October 13, 2010, 01:15:16 AM

With white male Republicans, sure.  He was probably looking for something to motivate them to turn out.