Talk Elections

This debate will run until 9:00pm EST on January 9th (Saturday) at the latest.  Agoojis (Ogis), Dallasfan65, Purple State, and Snowguy are the candidates.  I understand that this was not the best organized debate (this thread is up thirty minutes late) so I am just asking the candidates to get their opening statements up as soon as their are able to.  Once that is of the way we will proceed to the actual debate.

The order of response to the first question will be the reverse of the order of that which the candidates give their opening statements; i.e. if Agooji gives his opening statement first then he will be the last to respond.  For the second question, whoever showed up second will answer first and for the third question whoever showed up first will go first.

Citizens of Atlasia, there is still time for you to write in a question that you would like to see asked!  Just PM it to me and include whether you would like it to be anonymous or with your name attached and I will make sure to read it during the debate.

I believe that is all.  To the candidates; Good Luck!

Many thanks to Yelnoc and The Independent for hosting this debate, as well as to Ogis and Dallasfan for stepping up to participate in this early but important vice presidential debate. The opportunity to share ideas early and often makes the campaign much more exciting and fun.

Just a quick note, for religious reasons I will have to get this up quickly and then go dark until tomorrow night, but I will get in as much information as possible now and then tomorrow.

The February elections take place at an extremely important time for the game. We have a new Constitution, a reformed Wiki, a top-notch Department of Forum Affairs, an active Game Moderator and improving Departments of Internal Affairs and External Affairs. In gameplay, we are facing a looming economic crisis, both financially, in terms of our domestic market, and fiscally, in terms of our national debt. So these elections matter.

When I served as President with Marokai as my Vice President, we didn't have these same problems. Instead, the game was stuck in a rut, with its foundation crumbling and major disillusionment among members. So we went to work rebuilding from the ground up and set up the current game stability that we have now.

Now we are back, but with an important difference. Marokai, the preeminent Atlasian policy wonk, is on top of the ticket. In a game where the foundation is stable, we can now move on to true gameplay. That means proposing substantive policy, as Marokai is apt to doing, and ensuring that the legislation is successfully shepherded through the Senate. If elected Vice President, my number one job will be to make sure that the Senate operates effectively.

And I plan to do that and more. The trains will run on time and the debate will be exciting again. Some of that may mean reforming the rules of the Senate or finding creative ways to spur new interest in the arcane federal legislature. But it also involves outreach, fun and the balls to bring up controversial topics. That is what Marokai and I will be doing, throughout this campaign and hopefully throughout or time in office.

So if your idea of a better Atlasia is more open and more interesting debate, that draws in everyone from the most wonkish to the most ideological to the most loony, vote Marokai/Purple State for President and Vice President.

Thank you.

Thank you Yelnoc, a poster I have yet to get to know... as well as the Independent for sponsoring this debate!

I am fairly new and unknown in Atlasia, having been appointed to my spot as senator after Vice President Kalwejt had to vacate the seat for his VP duties.  In my short time, however, I believe that I have shown that I can be an effective leader as well as a bit of a policy wonk.

My focus in this campaign is going to be on policy, as well as conveying the message that an Oakvale/Snowguy administration would be open to every person's ideas.  Atlasia does not lack so much in policy as much as it does in a diversity of ideas.  I believe policy can be improved when we have the most ideas to work from.

As Vice President, I will work closely with the senate and encourage them to keep their focus on policy that will honor freedom and liberty, but also get Atlasians back to work by keeping them healthy, happy, and well educated.  Beyond that, an efficient means to get ideas and products to the marketplace is vital.

The policy of an Oakvale/Snowguy administration would focus on properly funding our schools and trying new things to keep Atlasian students the best in the world, ensuring that all Atlasians have easy access to their doctors and the medical treatments they need to stay independent and healthy without cutting corners, and improving our roads, rails, ports, and air infrastructure to speed the movement of products and people in our economy.  I would also support a policy that puts environmental conservation and good stewardship first.  I'd also support reforming the scientific research process to ensure that scientists aren't researching for the next grant.  Issues like climate change are much too important to have scientists looking for proof of preconceived notions in order to secure more grant money.  We need to make the process objective and restore integrity in our nation's research institutions so we can make the scientific process better.

I believe these four areas are key to improving Atlasia and making debate livelier and more exciting in a good way.

If you want Atlasia to be a place where all ideas have the opportunity for a fair hearing, where debate is lively and passionate, and where government simply "works", please vote Oakvale/Snowguy on election day.

As we say up here in the Northwoods,

Thanks a bunch.

Thanks for having us, Yelnoc, and I’d like to thank my opponents for being here as well.

I joined Atlasia a little over a year ago in the Northeast – registered at a time where activity was at its height and the regions had been vibrant. Since then, Atlasia has fallen into a bit of a slump, and while some of this is cyclical, there is certainly (to an extent) a way to remedy the problem. A Tmthforu94/Dallasfan65 administration will have the antidote to what ails Atlasia by giving Atlasia an active, bi-partisan, center-right government.

The duty of Vice President is, first and foremost, to run the Senate. Having been not only a Senator serving in my second (albeit non-consecutive) term, and also having run the Northeast Assembly for several months, I have confidence that I will execute the responsibilities adequately – the PPT election will be held properly, and tie-breaking votes will be cast. The Vice-Presidency is a simple, yet important role. I also will be able to inject activity beyond that – since my last tenure as Speaker of the Northeast Assembly, activity in the body has gone up significantly.

Now, if I can speak on behalf of my (hopefully) future boss, I can promise that the Tmth/Dallas administration will breathe some needed life into Atlasia – reform of the GM, as well as other offices potentially, and legislation that will benefit all of Atlasia. Tmthforu94 has a proven record in the Mideast of bi-partisanship and fighting for all of his constituents, and I can promise you all that he will bring that same spirit with him to the White House, as will I.

Thank you, and I’m looking forward to a great debate!

Now, let us move into the actual debate.  As I'm sure you know, there are rumors, credible rumors, that China may stop funding our massive debt within the very near future.  What would you and your running mate do to prevent this? 

Because not everyone is online, I will not dictate an order in which the candidates much answer this question.  Please answer it as soon as you see it.  You have roughly 2 hours to answer the question; within that each candidate has 1 follow up post they can use as a rebuttal.

Thank you Yelnoc for hosting this debate. Sorry for being late; I couldn't get on until late last night and I wanted to devote more than just my late-night skull rummaging time for this debate.

Opening Statement:

I have a large amount of experience on this forum, having been around since January 2009 in some capacity or another. Throughout my time, Atlasia has seen its ebbs and flows in activity. We have done much to try and minimize the ebbs and maximize the flows, per se, but we haven't made the strides necessary to keep the general population of Atlasia interested and invested in the government. As a government, the basis of the people's legislative power at the national level is the Senate; thus, Atlasia would be well served to have an active legislature to keep an active public. We all know that the Senate has fallen far short of this goal in recent weeks, and we need to do everything we can to keep the Senate active. As the head of the Senate, it is the Vice President's responsibility and civic duty to keep Senators in line, and I will hold myself responsible for maintaining the lofty standards to which we have grown accustomed.

At the same time, Atlasia has been mired in domestic issues and hasn't taken the initiative to move more toward foreign policy issues, such as Chinese lending, which I will address as part of my answer to Yelnoc's question. I believe that a way to combat this international nonchalance is to create a specific legislation slot for foreign affairs, bringing to the foreground the state of affair's with Atlasia's peers. This slot can be used at the PPT's discretion, but its general necessity is dictated by the supreme lack of internationally-applicable legislation coming from the Senate. Perhaps a more active Senate would be willing to take such a nascent Atlasian are of policymaking under their collective wing, but the new Vice President needs to facilitate the expansion of foreign policy legislation in the Senate.

Thank you for letting me enter this opening statement a little late, and let's get this debate started. I humbly wish all the candidates good luck, and I encourage the general public to provide their input.

Chinese Lending Answer:

From my understanding, the Chinese are worried by the fact that the Atlasian economy is struggling mightily, and that the outstanding loans are already extremely difficult to pay back. The Senate has been content to merely increase the deficit, and by extension, the national debt to mirror our loan payments. The Chinese and the Ben/Ogis ticket recognize the danger of this slippery slope. The Atlasian economy is a measurement of the world's collective economy, and debt-increasing tactics leading to massive inflation do not bode well for the repayment of loans. Thus, the Senate needs to write a long-term plan to balance the budget, proving to the Chinese that repayment is not, and will never be, a large issue. Atlasia needs to be the champion of economic prosperity. The Western would was built on long term planning, and we, as a nation, need to embrace this logic and come up with a future system for the budget, transcending the year-to-year system which we implement currently. 

Furthermore, the Chinese are likely miffed at our lack of communication and lack of legislation to combat this issue. Our administration would appoint an ambassador to the Chinese nation to alleviate their concerns and assure them that we are serious about addressing their worries and crafting a long-term solution to rid the Atlasian economy of any perceived shortfalls.

The looming debt crisis with China combined with the current economic weakness requires an all-of-government approach to deal with successfully. This means enlisting the help of the Senate to both provide adequate stimulus while working to control extraneous spending and crafting a long-term sustainable budget. This means interacting with the government of China (through the GM), from the Secretary of External Affairs up through the President to ensure that they are aware that to harm the Atlasian economy is to cause massive damage to their own growth and development.

This will take an extremely active government and everyone can be sure that Marokai and I bring that to the table. We will be engaged from the start to make sure that the regions have what they need to create jobs and that the Chinese government does not act against our interests and their own.

Finally, I should point out that we are only lucky enough to have these sort of game topics because Marokai and I previously worked hard to have the most active government, which included appointing Badger as GM. I assure you that it is our full intention to carry that into our administration if elected.

Sorry for the very late response.  I see the other podiums are also empty, except for Ogis, who just showed up.  :P  I guess the refreshment table was that good.

Regarding the China issue, I think it is very important to keep a good relationship with China.  The development of China and their prosperity will most certainly bring more freedom to the Chinese people, and that is something that Atlasia should support.

An Oakvale/Snowguy administration would work very hard to keep good relations with China while at the same time making our interests known.  The Chinese are just as aware as Atlasia the extremely negative consequences that would result for both nations as well as the global economy if they were to stop lending to us.  We need to work with the Chinese to make a fair deal that results in growth and opportunity in both nations.  I don't think China's willingness to lend to Atlasia is actually on the bargaining table at all when push comes to shove.  

With that said, I think it is important that we work to balance the budget in the medium term.  China will not feel nearly the pressure to stop lending to us if we have a plan in place to balance the budget, even if such a budget continues borrowing in the shorter term.

Wow, today was busier then expected.

Moving on, what is your tickets stance on the deficit?  Will reducing it be a primary or secondary focus (or tertiary?) and what methods are you willing to use to get us out of the deep red?

I think our ticket will look at the deficit as a secondary focus behind creating policies that put people to work.  If people are working and the economy is growing, that increases revenue on its own and helps to reduce the deficit by itself.

I believe as far as deficit reduction is concerned, the first thing you have to do is find what can be cut without hurting the most vulnerable in society or causing economic harm to Atlasia.  There is still plenty that could be reformed, consolidated, or cut to save money.  Beyond that, one must look at revenue increases.  Those increases should be progressive, taking mostly from those that can afford it.  At the same time, one must be prudent.  We don't want to punish success.  But I believe that properly funding the government and the services and programs it provides will lead to a healthier economy, which undoubtedly rewards the successful as well as everyone else.

Paying down the debt should be done as excess revenue comes in.  We should not be raising taxes or making cuts to spending simply to pay down the debt.  That will do nothing but hurt the economy.  Let us pay down the debt as we are able to and work first on balancing the budget so as to stop adding to the debt.

Since my time as GM we have known that the Atlasian deficit was, well, quite large.

Marokai and I both feel strongly that the deficit must be closed in the medium term, but not at the expense of growth and innovation. At the end of the day, we can go a long way towards closing the debt through sustained growth in the economy.

So what is the solution? Cutting programs that don't work, streamlining programs with extra slack and expanding programs that build the economy of tomorrow.

Now Marokai will be leading these policy initiatives, but I hope that his proposals coupled with my vision for a more active Senate will produce broad debate on these issues. The game is small enough that if we make discussions exciting and welcoming, we can really hear from most people and include as many great ideas as possible from all along the political spectrum.

A Tmthforu94/Dallasfan65 administration will also feel passionate about the deficit.

At some point in time, things are going to come to a head, and I feel (and I'm sure my boss would agree) that the deficit ought to be our primary focus. China is on the verge of cutting us off (I hope the current SoEA is able to handle the situation) and this will turn an economic downturn into a collapse. I feel some good solutions to this would be bringing home bases that are overseas, shrinking the size of some departments, and finally vetoing some bills that, while they may seem nice, have far too hefty of a price tag on them. One thing I am sure of, however, is that tax increases are a non-starter.

Part of paying down the deficit can only been done by simply holding out until a recovering economy yields better tax revenue, but there are real steps that can be taken, and I look forward to that.

EDIT: I must apologize to Yelnoc for missing the first question. Work's a bitch.

I'd just like to interject for just a quick second with something that really needs to be stated:


The deficit is not ballooning out of control. The deficit is, pretty much, under control for now. More can always be done, but let's not just all come down with amnesia on what's already been done.

Isn't this thread for the VP candidates?

Snowguy posted in the P debate thread. I'm just stating something as an aside because allowing it to continue would be simple misinformation, the exact opposite of something a debate is supposed to provide. There are matters of fact around the deficit that are being ignored, and that shouldn't be.

Also, I'm glad that you, also a presidential candidate, didn't mind posting either, despite criticizing me of posting.

I'm not actually trying to engage in the political debate like you are, and neither was Snowguy. I say let the VP candidates debate here. If you have a point to make, make it in the Presidential candidates thread.

I wasn't participating in debate, I was making a factual point about the question being based on a false premise. Which it undeniably is.

In fairness to Yelnoc, that post was dated before he even joined the forum.

Marokai and Tmth, you have a whole presidential debate thread to go at it. Stop bickering in this thread and let the VPs debate policy.

---

The issue with the debt is not the size (as implied by Dallasfan), but the threat that China will withdraw from buying new debt, a major threat to international faith in our ability to finance current spending levels. It should also be noted that the annual budget deficit is nearly under control, but we are almost a decade away from closing out the debt.

We need to work with the Chinese and other nations to address their concerns with our current debt. One way to do that is with diplomatic outreach, at the Global Treaty Organization and bilaterally. Another is to build a sustainable economy that avoids crippling crises and supports strong and extended growth. And that is exactly what Marokai and I plan to do.

And it's not your place to do that.  Let the debate moderator do so if he so wishes.  All I saw there was you butting into the debate to plug your own candidacy.

If the debate moderator is talking about inaccurate information and basing a question on a false premise of something that is not happening, this debate is having the opposite impact that it should be having.

Keeping the budget under control would be an important goal of our administration, but the year-to-year deficit is not as important as a long term plan to eventually eliminate the overall national debt, as doing so would improve Atlasian credit in the eyes of foreign nations. This may seem to be self-contradicting, as reducing the deficit is the first step in eliminating the national debt, but the deficit is already under control. Therefore, our sights should be set to the future elimination of the debt while keeping the current system in place to maintain and improve upon the deficit, as outlined in the Fiscal Responsibility Bill, which the peanut gallery so controversially pointed out. ;)

So let's leave it up to presidential candidate Marokai Blue to "correct" everybody in public by inserting himself into other debates that he is not a part of when people are "wrong", instead of bringing the issue up privately with the debate moderator. [/sarcasm]

Again, you coming in here and re-posting a talking point from your own presidential debate was wholly inappropriate.

What I posted was information from the former Game Moderator, aka Game God, aka where the information we use in this game comes from and what we're all supposed to accept as truth. Don't shoot the messenger for correcting what is objectively wrong.

Your opinion on the matter of deficits is hardly "objective", considering you were the sponsor of the bill you highlighted when you decided to campaign in our debate thread. 

I'm not shooting the messenger here.  I'm just asking him to get the hell off of the stage during our debate.

You're just being disingenuous Snowguy. You posted in the presidential debate thread to criticize a policy proposal by Marokai:


So can we get back to the question at hand or do you all want to keep making yourselves look like idiots?

You're right.  I shouldn't have posted in the presidential debate thread.  I was not, however, the only person who had suspicions of Marokai having advance knowledge of the debate questions.

LOL.

I know.  I eventually realized that that would be ridiculous.  So instead I realized that you typed up a quick response to the question and then added a bunch of pointless, irrelevant information about credit card reform legislation.  A visual charade of looking prepared.  Nothing more.

Let's move on.

I realize I should give less information in debates. I apologize.

I assumed that the reason rumors that China will stop financing our debt indicated that we have a massive debt; otherwise there would be little panic.  This game needs an easy-to-access history of GM events; that is much more important then "politics". 

If you are not a Vice Presidential candidate (or myself, of course) do not post in this thread.  Thank you.

Question #3: What is your personal view on offsite recruitment to the game and will it be a feature of "your" administration?  Format is the same as last time.

The debt is large, but it's coming down over the next decade as long as current tax levels are coupled with responsible stewardship. But enough of that.

Offsite recruitment will not be a central part of a Marokai/Purple State administration. While I welcome new blood to Atlasia and know from my own experience what an active and interested newbie can do for the game, part of the value of these boards is discovering them on your own. The people that join should generally be those who are specially motivated to do so.

This game requires player interest to thrive and you just don't get that as consistently from players that are brought in by others. Now I'm not saying that every player that's recruited will be another Hamilton and deserves any anger directed at them. That would be disingenuous and wrong. But I really don't believe that you get the same caliber of player as often when you recruit, as when you let people discover these boards on their own as they become familiar with the forum at-large.

So we will be encouraging better "new member orientation" programs, like improving the "Introduction to Atlasia" thread and promoting a mentor program for new citizens, but we don't intend to make offsite (or even onsite) recruitment a part of our administration.

As someone who joined this game just a year ago and also serves on the Presidential Task Force for Recruitment, I too believe that a steady stream of new members is not only desirable, but essential, for this game to bloom. Let us note that the host of this debate recently joined Atlasia himself and has been a very productive member thus far.

Our administration will not take an active role in promoting off-site recruitment. If one wants to advertise on other websites on behalf of Atlasia, I have no problem with that, but I do not think we should be cherry-picking a handful of people.

One thing, however, (and I think everybody will agree with me here) is that we need to be more courteous to people who join the game, particularly in the New Register Thread - if you haven't anything nice, welcoming, and respectful to say, then don't say anything at all. Stuff like this:


Is unacceptable.

Stuff like this:


Is what we should be shooting for.

Thank you.  Going back to the economy, the Atlasian unemployment rate is at record highs.  What would "your" administration do to get more Atlasians to work.

Our strategy is two-fold:

First, build on the successful "Social and Economic Development Zones" (SEDZ) created under the Social & Economic Development Zone Improvement Act. While those zones currently exist, the Secretary of Internal Affairs under a Marokai/Purple State administration will focus on using those zones as effectively as possible to improve the job climate.

Second, we will reinforce the Hiring Incentives Act, legislation originally passed under my administration that successfully stabilized the job market for a time. We will make sure that this, combined with a robust unemployment insurance system, encourages employers to hire while maintaining the safety net for those looking for work.

New Member Recruitment

Our administration will not focus on off-site recruitment because it encourages zombie recruitment, and it turns the election process into a farce. Instead of voting for the best candidate, political parties would be motivated to recruit people who would vote for their candidate every couple of months, making debates such as this one trivial and obsolete.

The far more pressing issue is that of welcoming newbies, and the lack of respect they receive from the general community. We should not be inclined to judge so quickly the nature of every new registration. Instead, we should attempt to accept every new member as a part of our community. Even if there are inklings that the new person was "recruited," that is something that should be taken up with the alleged recruiters without alienating the new member any further. Furthermore, our administration would champion a new system in which no posts are allowed in the New Register Thread except registration, state/party changes, and official RG business. Any constructive advice could easily be addressed to the new constituent via PM. Thus, we can reduce the RG's headache of having to read through pages of garbage and bickering while also discouraging negative comments to newcomers.

Employment:

Federal employment incentives are a necessity to keep Atlasians in the workforce. As Purple State previously stated, the Social and Economic Development Zones initiative should continue to be utilized by the federal government, along with a restructured Hiring Incentive Acts. Meanwhile, our administration would also champion work-related education programs at colleges, giving students the opportunity to map a course directly based on the jobs available to the public. An informed student is more likely to succeed in such a cutthroat work environment.

New Member Recruitment
An Oakvale/Snowguy administration would not make off-site recruitment a main tenant of recruitment.  While the game needs more active members to remain fun and exciting, as Purple State said, it is best when these people find the game themselves. 

With that said, we need to work on changing our attitude towards new participants.  People should be welcomed kindly to Atlasia.  And to those that would simply join to be zombies or to troll:  Kill 'em with kindness.

Employment

I am skeptical that the federal government can be a catalyst for large employment gains.  The federal government can be a huge part in long term employment growth and provide stop-gap measures in economic recessions to stem the loss of jobs as well as provide resources for the jobless... but I just don't know that any employment scheme will have a major impact in the all-important medium-term.

What the federal government can do is give Atlasians the tools necessary to train for employment and create an environment that champions small business, innovation, and entrepreneurship.

I also believe that focusing major federal investment on infrastructure will help create jobs and make it easier for people to get their ideas and products to the marketplace.  Focusing on efficiencies that reduce our oil consumption and increase modes of transportation that don't rely on oil are key in promoting Atlasian growth.  While we don't know for sure when "peak oil" will come, it is curious that oil production only grew by a measly 0.2% between 2005 and 2008 despite a tripling in the price of oil and large rises in demand.  After the price crashed with the economy, the price is steadily rising right back up to where we were in early 2008 and the economy is in worse shape than we were then.

It is obvious that a serious effort to move away from oil is needed.  If the business community sees that we are making efforts to reduce overall transportation costs by developing alternatives, it will give them an incentive to hire here rather than somewhere else.

The challenge we face is obviously huge.  An Oakvale/Snowguy administration would push to lead Atlasia towards a more sustainable future that would bring not only prosperity, but much needed stability.

I'm really happy to see the level of agreement that new members of the game need to be treated better. If anything comes out of this campaign, hopefully it will be a broad consensus among Atlasians that new members should be treated with respect and dignity.

Coupled with the mentoring ideas that some of us have mentioned, I think we might see a new dawn for young and aspiring players.

Thank you all for your time.  The first Vice-Presidential debate is closed.  Good luck to all of you in the race ahead.

Thank you Yelnoc for holding the first vice presidential debate of the campaign. :)

Thanks for having us, Yelnoc!

It's been a blast.

Thank you for consenting to host the debate, Yelnoc.