Talk Elections

Hello to all of Atlasia from The Voice!  To continue the series of debates The Independent started in conjunction with The Voice, the Second Presidential Debate is today!  At 1 PM PST, all candidates have a three hour time limit to give their opening statements before we move onto the subject of game reform.

I have created this thread early on the possibility that I will not be here at 1 PM.  However, I will be on when the deadline for opening statements is up.

Currently, we have the JCP candidate Governor Oakvale, the RPP/POP candidate Governor Tmthforu94.  If there are any other candidates that wish to participate, please post here before the debate begins.

I will allow each candidate to respond to each other as long as debate remains civil.  Outside comments are also warranted under the same rule.  

Bon chance tout le monde! :)

For the second time now, thank you, Archangel, for hosting this debate. And thank you to Oakvale, as well as any future candidates, for agreeing to do this debate. :)

I’m running in this election to give Atlasia an active, center-right administration. I have outlined various positions of mine throughout this campaign, and I hope to be able to go more in-depth on some of them during the debate. One new issue I think needs to be addresed in the game - with the departure of the member in charge of “Introduction to Atlasia”, I think it is essential that we quickly establish a new introduction thread. I hope to be able to expand on the current Intro thread by showing a list of clearly defined rules to the game - qualifications for running for various offices, how to get on the “Do Not PM list”, and many others.

A lot of the problems currently facing the game deal with game reform, and will have to be solved no matter who the next President is. I hope to use this debate to work with my fellow candidates on discussing and debating possible solutions to the problems we face.

Thank you, and Dave Bless!

I'll be brief!

First of all, my thanks to Archangel and The Independent for hosting this second debate. I know the first one was something of a logistical nightmare, so it great that a second one got off the ground at all. :)

A lot's changed since that debate (the most prominent candidate dropping out springs to mind)  but Atlasia's flaws remain fundamentally the same - legislative lethargy, inactivity, absurd barriers to new members... I'm running to give this game the shot in the arm it so desperately needs. I'm grateful for the opportunity to clearly outline my ideas for winning the futu fixing Atlasia.

Every candidate for President in my time here has talked about "game reform", but we've unfortunately seen few results. I look forward to discussing opportunities for genuine reform with my opponent.

Speaking of, I'd like to second Tmth's call for an updated Introduction thread, and give him the appropriate kudos for taking the initiative on that.

Anyway, thank you, and I'm excited about getting down to brass tacks. :)

First, let me thank the Independent.

Hi, I'm J. J.  I'm running for president and my campaign is a joke.  I mean my campaign, not the issues I'm going to raise.  I'm not as polished as these other two guys.  In Atlasian terms, I'm an average guy.  That average guy perspective, the guy who shows up, and wants to find out more about how Atlasia works, is what I'm bring. 

I'm happy to see that Governor Oakvale has expressed an interest in getting more people involved and Tmthforu94 wants to improve accessibility.  Both go hand in hand.  However, both are too close to the system.

If elected my first priority will be to codify the voting rules so a nonmember, or an uninformed member, like me, can find the information quickly.  My second priority will be to have a thread of adopted legislation, so that someone browsing can see what is going on, and find it quickly.

This is neither a leftist nor rightest approach; it is a practical approach. 

My third priority, after getting these things done, or at least well on the way, will to resign.  That is definitely not a political approach.

Thank you to all the candidates for their opening statements.  We will now move on to the subject of Game Reform with these two questions:

What is the most important aspect of game reform you wish to push through in your administration?

Do you believe that the current voting system is ideal?  Why or why not?

And I would also like to thank the candidates on behalf of The Voice, for the praise and the punctuality to respond in time. :)

An hour to respond.

Mine is centralized information on voting rules.  Recently there was a referral to a "do not PM" list for political PM's.  It is here:


How many of you even knew that there was such a list, buried in a 6 week old post on page 14 of the thread?

I recently tried to research the issue of voter registration, trying to find the statute.  It was next to impossible to find.  That needs to be codified by the Senate in one document and given a sticky position.

Second, it is difficult to find what legislation exists and when it has been passed.  I was told, by my opponent, Tmthforu94, yesterday, that a bill was enacted.  As of today, no record of it passing or signing exists.

We need a thread to list the enacted laws of Atlasia, also in a sticky position.  And one for executive orders as well.  These things must be done to insure that citizens have access to the basic rules of the game.

I should add that, while I wish to see codification, I disagree with one of my opponents in lowering the registration requirement.  You can never tell when one of those nominal members will become active and try to change the world.  ;)

J.J.'s just pointed out a question I've been waiting to ask, I will end tonight's round early at 7 PM, give around 12 hours for people to catch up.

What is the usefulness of the Wiki in your eyes?

Do you wish to implement it more into Atlasia?

Are the current legislative proceedings ideal?

How would you currently improve the inactivity issue in Atlasia?

I think it is very useful, and one of the better organized sources in Atlasia.

I think, as a practical matter, the expansion of it will be slow, and I think the "sticky steps" would be a practical, if ultimately temporary solution.


I think that is a matter for the Senate, but disseminating the information is at least more the role of the executive.


I thought I had, by running.  ;)

The idea of more centralized information may help.  It explains what you have to do to join.  I'd actually link to Wiki more.

There is perhaps another issue.  I've gotten the sense that there are basically two parties in Atlasia, them and us.  "Them" is those people in the political class.  "Us" are just the normal members who rarely seek office.  I hope that my candidacy will change that.

I think my biggest accomplishment would be to reform the Game Moderator position. Several ideas have been presented before me, all of them very good. I hope this debate will be just one of many instances where we can discuss and debate which idea is the best. The idea I originally had consisted of creating two GM’s, each with different focuses. Another idea I’ve heard, which I really like, is possibly making the SoEA and SoIA either “Co-GM’s” or assistants. It’d certainly bring some relevance to the positions, especially SoIA, a position many want to do away with.


I think most would agree with me that a private ballot would be the most ideal, however, it’s unrealistic. The chances of fraud would be very high in that situation. Therefore, I’d never support changing the current system of public ballots.

The Wiki is extremely useful for anyone who wants to learn about the game’s history, as well as if a new member who wants to learn how things operate. If I am ever talking to a newbie, I always make sure to refer them to the Wiki.


I do. As Governor, I made it a priority to keep the entire Mideast page as up-to-date as possible, making at least an update or two every couple of weeks. I think the bill proposed by Senator Bgwah for a Wiki Article of the Month is a great way to encourage user involvement.  Hopefully, no matter who is President, we can try and get more active citizens involved in updating the Wiki, and hopefully we’ll see less and less stub articles.

I’d say so. On any important piece of legislation that reaches my desk, I’ll make a few sentence comment on why I’m signing or vetoing the bill. I did something similar to that as Governor of the Mideast region, and I think it’s a great way to try and get citizens to
understand what the bill will do.


Hopefully one way to help get activity going in the government is to reform the GM position so both the Senate and regional legislatures can have more to work with. On top of that, I would support a small reduction of posts required to join Atlasia to try and avoid spamming. Perhaps 69 would be a good number? :P

Something else that was discussed earlier in this campaign was the idea of a “Welcoming Committee”. I personally love this idea, and will lead a charge to get that started up within the first week or two of my administration. This program would help smooth the transition for new members interested in getting active in Atlasia, and hopefully instead of newbies voting a couple times then falling off the rolls, they’ll stay active. I think a great way to encourage that activity is encouraging them to run for regional legislatures. I have first hand experience in that area, and I know that regional legislatures are a great way to get a newbie active. ;)

I’m sure my opponents also have other ideas I may not have mentioned on how we can stimulate the game. I don’t care who proposes the idea, if I like it, I’d try and implement in my administration. This election should be about a collaboration of ideas, and that’s what I hope to make it.

We will continue from where we left off yesterday, to finish off game reform.

Do you believe that Atlasia is oversimplified or overcomplicated?

and

What is your ideal vision for Atlasia after your presidency?

Deadline @ 5:10 PM.

Neither.  Atlasia is a lot like Algebra - it seems complicated at first, but once you spend some time with it, it becomes much easier (and it also seems pointless at times).  The general gist of Atlasia - an election and government sim - works quite well.  Certain things can be simplified, and we need a better introductory thread, but on balance, things work well now.


A game in which people are active, actually pay attention (especially to foreign policy) and do not immediately accuse every new poster of being a sock.  I dream of an Atlasia where people are not harassed to the point of being forced out just because they are new, and I really would like to see more competitive elections, with no one party regions anymore.  But, on whole, an Atlasia that is similar to the one we have now, with some slight improvements.

Especially compared to other political simulations, I don’t think this game is overcomplicated. Obviously, it’s a bit overwhelming to someone new to the game, but they should be expecting that. I think the Introduction to Atlasia thread is a great service for new members, as I remember using it myself. I also think the idea of a Welcoming Committee could also be very beneficial to helping new members get adjusted.


I would like to see Atlasia more active, and I think just about every candidate would great that’d be a prime objective. ;) By the end of my Presidency, I’d like to at least see substantial reform to the GM position, a better transition for new members into the game, and more of a focus on foreign policy than the current. We also need more buildings in Atlasia named after Senator Duke!

Well, if I can expand on the algebra analogy of my opponent, nobody I went to high school with has an advanced degree in mathematics.

I played war games in high school.  I played AD&D in college.  I was a bureaucrat dealing with three sets of welfare regulations.  I now advise groups on parliamentary procedure.  I have never seen such a total mess of regulations as I have in Atlasia!


A non political one, that will put the interest of Atlasia before his desire to run for re-election.  One who willing to accomplish a goal, and then move on.

Moving on, we will now push into other questions.

Is Atlasia's national security adequate?  Have the latest terrorist attacks proven just how vulnerable we are?

Is the current national legislature the most ideal?  How would you like it changed?

Do you believe Atlasia should be a much larger force in international intervention efforts?

Deadline: 5:50 PM.

It terms of game security, there are two problems.

1.  Sock accounts, and I think there is adequate security.

2.  Apathy.  There is always the possibility of uninformed voters being recruited for personal political gain of a candidate or a political party just to sway elections (I know, I use to be one).  One advantage to making things more open and accessible is to interest more people in playing because the want to.  The uniformed members become informed voters.

We will always have mock attacks and mock solutions, but the danger to the game is from false or apathetic voters.

I do disagree with Tmth on the lowering of the post threshold.  I think that would only exasperate the apathetic voter problem.


I think we may need a shorter time to approve legislation; one piece of legislation has been hanging in mid vote for three days now. 


No.  Fantasy wars are not the true threat to this simulation.


What time zone?

Didn't see deadline until a few minutes ago! :P

I’m generally pleased with our national security system, though I do believe security should be strengthened in all federal offices to help prevent another bombing in the future.

If we had a larger and more active body of citizens, I would support creating a second chamber. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’re at the activity levels needed to support that, so it’ll take a backburner in my administration. I support keeping the status quo in the Senate of 5 regional Senators and 5 at-large Senators.

No. I would only support war currently if we were attacked by another country or posed a serious threat. As I’ve said before, I support cuts in the defense department, and I think we’re currently spending way too much there, specifically in funding for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. I will be outlining those specific cuts later on in this debate.

Finally, before we move on to the third session, two more questions:

1.  What is your opinion of the recent events surrounding the major political parties of Atlasia?

2.  Will your focus as President be on the in-game aspect or the real world aspect?  What is the most integral part of this focus?

After 7 PM PST, the session will fold into an open-debate form.  In this case, the candidates are now free to communicate amongst each other, as well as outside observers.  If things become disorderly, I will shut down the session immediately.

The open-debate will last until I get back on tomorrow (approximately 7:30 AM PST)

In accordance with previous Presidential actions actually I believe we are already out of both.

Oy vey.  I think people need to realize that we cannot have parties in Atlasia the way some want - organizations that people will always fall behind.  We are too independent for that.  I don't think parties are a bad thing, but we have to recognize reality.

As for my party specifically, there seems to be a lot of false controversy.  We held a primary, and all candidates did abide by the results.  I fail to see the issue - even now, with a discussion over the new nominee, there is no acrimony; it is all made up.


My focus - foreign policy - does both.  I've explained, in depth, why I think foreign policy can increase the in-game and real world portions of the game.  People will get interested in foreign affairs, and then be more active in the game, and the cycle will continue.

I think you are seeing the problems of Atlasian politics.  This might be called attack of the Zombie.  Today it is, in all honesty, affecting the RPP, but tomorrow it can affect any or all parties.  Two people have, by their candidacy and advocacy, without any organization or planning, destabilized the political situation.  Not because we're good, or smart, or popular.  It is because the political situation is so fragile the slightest change will shatter it.

I will admit to being an angry Atlasian, but I am more angry at the system in Atlasia that I am at any individual or group. 

We have political leaders that warn of political retribution against someone who wants nothing to do with politics after this election (and won't be staying, win or lose) .  We have much more experienced members who can't find statutes relating to basic rights of members.  It is troubling to see this senators, former office holders, party chairmen, generally in the party that is more supportive of individual rights and open government.  It can only be worse in the parties that value the state over the individual or the region.

We have a focus on "left" and "right" while Atlasia sinks in a quagmire of laws seemingly lost in cyberspace.  I've and my running mate been accused of trying to split the right and the left, by the right and the left.

We can have those arguments after we have those left and right arguments after we get the game running and have a participatory electorate that won't fall apart at the slightest wind.


If elected, I hope my tenure will be brief.  While Cincinatus returned to the plow, if elected, I will resign and hopefully leave Atlasia, once the reforms have started.  My focus will not be on fantasies but on building a structure where others can more easily, and more fairly, live out their fantasy political lives, fully informed.  My brief will be solely be focused on improving the game.

Yet it was still included in the recent budget.

At the risk of looking completely out of touch (which I am):

1.  When did the hostilities end?

2.  When does the fiscal year end?

Also, were there any "cleanup" costs like rebuilding, transporting the troops back?

Due to some very urgent business, I will extend open debate until I get back.  Sorry guys, I don't have much of a time approximation for this one.

I think the emergence of a new party has certainly breathed some life into the game. While many feel this election has consisted of much drama and silliness, at the same time, this has been one of the most active election cycles in recent memory.

I hope that the levels of activity currently being displayed by all political parties will continue on into the next four months, but be used in a more positive and less dramatic manner.



My administration will place more of an emphasis on reforming the game itself, but we're also going to try and play the game as well. Both of these work hand in hand, so I can't really say I'll exclude one of them in my administration.

I'm extremely sorry for my lack of presence as of late but RL issues came up that I need to attend to. 

I will now open the floor for closing statements.  Again, sorry for the delay.

This thread illustrates many of the problems facing the game of Atlasia, though I want to compliment the Doctor for his conduct and the Voice and the Independent for sponsoring it.  I commend you for this.

We have two other candidates participating, both active, and office holders.  One doesn't know we're no longer in a fantasy war and the other can't explain why we are still spending fantasy money to find it.  I don't pretend to be active, but I don't pretend it makes much of a difference either.

I've been criticized for these two promises:


It was said to be a threat to representative democracy, even though enshrined in the Atlasian Constitution.

It perhaps should be criticized as a hollow threat, in the three days since I've said it, I could not find any legislation that the Senate has passed.  This is sad when you consider some bills were listed as being in their final votes.

If I'm elected I will cajole, hector, and threaten with vetoes, until the Senate acts to improve this game, and do these things that most of Atlasia, Left and Right support.  And then, I will resign, and, if possible, leave Atlasia for good.

Atlasia, like Atlantis, is said to be sinking.  It has been compared to the Titanic.  If you don't want it to sink, elect J. J. /East Coast Republican

Thank you!

Though this debate was short, and policy wasn't discussed like I hoped for it to be, I'd like to personally thank Archangel for still doing this debate. :)

Throughout my time as both Governor and Senator, I have held a record - a record of being consistently active. As a Senator, I would make the effort to spark debate and provide bills/amendments as often as I could. More recently, as Governor, I've fulfilled each role of my job effectively, and was an active part of debate in the Mideast Assembly. As President, you won't see me disappear for a couple of days every now and then, and if I ever do have to leave, it's probably an emergency and I'll have announced a LOA.

Many of the issues facing this game go beyond ideology, GM reform as the key one. During these difficult times facing our nation, we need an active leader who is truly committed to improving this game. I believe I am that leader.

During this campaign, I've received support from all different ideologies. Regardless of yours, if you want to see an active, bi-partisan administration, I ask you to support this ticket. If you want a President and Vice President who are active in debate and pushing the Senate along, I ask you to vote for this ticket.

I'll be brief.  I believe my candidacy is the best one to resurrect Atlasia.  My platform and intended reforms will not only create interest among existing members, but it will draw in new members.  So if you wish to see the game resurrected, vote for me.

good debate. i like how it's shorter and just focused on a couple issues - made it easier to follow than the last one.

Due to being unexpectedly preoccupied over the last couple of days, I'm gutted that I missed the chance to engage with Ben, Tmth and JJ. In light of this, I'd encourage my opponents, and memers of the public, to post over in my campaign thread with any questions at all and I'll give you my positions. :)

As a closing statement, all I'll say is this - it's heartening to see all the candidates agree that GM reform is the way forward. As I said in my opening statement, the great, ignored, Depression of 2011 is one of the most obvious examples of the current state of the game. As President, I'll give the GM a couple of assistants, beef up the largely irrelevant SoIA and SoEA offices, and implement, if the current holder of the office doesn't object, a second GM. I'll also strive to make the game more newbie-friendly, and, (the buzzword of this campaign ahoy) more active, impose term limits on the stagnant Supreme Court, and give the Vice-Presidency an actual purpose.

But you don't need to listen to campaign babble. Any Presidential candidate would make these promises, and they have. What we need is a President who will keep their promises, so you should take a trip to the Pacific. Take a look at my record. In a region that was quite probably the most inactive and predictable in the nation, I took office as Governor and addressed the structural problems of the region efficiently and (I hope!) effectively. Along with my Lieutenant Governor, I resurrected an old Pacific Justice role to stir the legislative pot, and, in my proudest achievment, sheparded the biggest change in many years through the assembly - the creation of the Pacific Supreme Council.

So cast your mind back to the predictably "liberal", unengaging Pacific of old, and then compare what you see today. Actual argument, actual debate - I think a bill even failed recently. :P

That's my record - increasing activity, pumping new life into the game. I'm not afraid of radically shaking up the nation's institutions if that's what it takes. You know my positions, you know my record, the rest is up to you. :)

Thanks to my friend Archangel for hosting these two wonderful debates, and to my opponents for participating. Reading over your responses, I found them interesting and illuminating in equal measure.

Thanks all, and, remember, post any questions at all in my campaign (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=130116) thread!

Vote Oakvale/Snowguy. :)