Talk Elections

Obama is speaking tonight.  Anyone heard anything?  Strange, 10 PM on a Sunday?

My guess is Gaddafi is either captured or dead. I can't think of what else would be this important that it would have to get out at a weird time.

Edit: Or the comedy option: Obama admits the birth certificate is faked, he's really from Kenya, and resigns the Presidency immediately.

CNN is saying it is related to national security.

Almost definitely something to do with Gaddafi.

He's going to announce that Gaddafi is his father, and the birth certificate was falsified to hide that fact.

Just heard this on CNN and FOX ... I'm guessing something with Gaddafi.

EDIT: MSNBC, not CNN.

Maybe Qaddafi is leaving; I doubt if they could verify he's dead.

Okay, no Gadhafi.

Anything coming out of Europe?

15 minute address.

Wolf Blitzer just talked to a senior White House official and they said it is definitively not anything Libya-related or Gadhafi-related.  Wolf said he has a hunch, but he doesn't want to speculate because he doesn't know for sure.  The White House won't reveal anything other than it doesn't involve Libya.

It sounds like something time sensitive.  Bin Laden?

15 minutes.

Bin Laden.

For some reason I feel like it will be something totally crazy like we caught Osama or we're going to war with Mars but in all likelihood it will be boring like every other Obama address.

Edit: 18 seconds late

I wonder just how many people on the East Coast will be watching it live just before 11:00 pm when they have to get up early for work and school Monday morning.  The Central Time Zone is even sketchy in terms of getting people to stay up as it will be nearly 10:00 here.

Some combo of Osama, Taliban, Al Qaeda news.

Blitzer just said it concerns the world, not just the U.S.

Geraldo Rivera just made a wild guess - perhaps it's Bin Laden?

Thanks.  I wish I could go turn on CNN but everyone's asleep.  BTW, you can watch the statement here.  http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-delivers-statement

Wolf Blitzer and Ed Henry are probably a little miffed at the President because they were at home resting tonight getting ready for work tomorrow, when they had to rush into work late on a Sunday night.

Confirming Bin Laden is dead on FOX

Aliens???  I don't know.

Hoping it's good news and not some awful day of infamy crap.

Bin Laden is what they are saying on MSNBC

I still think they're jumping to conclusions before it comes out of the President's mouth.

Geraldo Rivera is terrible.  Hopefully, this announcement doesn't end up like Al Capone's vault.

Happy birthday, me. :)

Gerald is annoying...I want the President to speak.

Seconded, let's wait for the POTUS.

Major networks (NBC,CBS,ABC) breaking from programming in a couple minutes

MSNBC is now saying it's a development dealing with Bin Laden, but has not said he's dead.

If we had a like button, I'd be using it now.

NYTimes says Bin Laden is dead.

CNN's John King just said that Osama Bin Laden in dead.

NBC just broke- all sources are confirming Bin Laden is dead- expect Obama's approvals to be very high tommorow

Obama just tweeted he is about to address the nation.  Tune in. http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-delivers-statement

Bin Laden dead!


NYC > Bin Laden.
 Thats all I have to say.

Well, if this turns out to be true, FOX will get to claim they announced it first of the networks.

All networks now confirming Bin Laden is dead-I think this is from the WH

Can Obama beat Bush Jr.'s 92%? 

NYT facebook feed says OBL is kaput.  He is no more.  He has ceased to be.

Im predicting 85% approval tommorow

Great News :)

It depends how he died.  If WE did it intentionally, I think he's got a good chance.  If we didn't kill him or it wasn't intentional (we targetted a terror cell and got him not knowing he was there), he'll get a HUGE spike, but not that high.

Don't you know George W. Bush is somewhere in Texas pouting "Hey, that's not fair!! I wanted him"

Good riddance.  But why not keep him in deep freeze until the weekend before the election?  Are they that desperate?

FOX News twitter "Pentagon correspondent Jennifer Griffin reports that #Osama bin Laden was killed by a U.S. bomb"

BREAKING: NBC is saying it was US-led and they have his body

Well, if it's the former, then the Dick Cheneys, John Boltons, and John McCains should endorse Obama for re-election. Should do, but probably won't do.

So who's the new boogeyman?

Hells f'ing yeah!!!!!!!

To be fair, no, they shouldn't.  Obama's not the one doing the intelligence work.  I don't mean to downplay the great role I'm sure he played in this, but that act alone doesn't make one worthy of reelection.

The BBC is being cautious, as usual.

 
Agreed.

And it's about time

But is this Hiroshima or is this Pearl Harbor for Al Qaeda?  I'm afraid to think that it may only get worse from here.

I think from a political standpoint, George W. Bush is relieved that there is physical evidence that his invasion of Afghanistan 9 1/2 years ago was justified and that his main target is finally dead.  It may not have happened under his watch, but that it did happen.

I'm hoping for no school tomorrow =). But not likely

Well, its kind of hard to hide something like that for that long.  It also looks really bad if exposed, and would probably actually hurt Obama.

But anyway, it looks like we got him.  lets just hope this turns out to be a good thing in the long run

Sign of apocalypse...Phils and Mets fans cheering at the same game.

Now there's speculation going around on Twitter that Obama timed this to interrupt Celebrity Apprentice and take a jab at Trump... how dumb.

CBS is saying that we may have violated Pakistani sovereignty to get him.

So 10:30PM EST is coming up at half past this hour? Sorry, time zones confuse me sometimes.

From a political standpoint, I wonder if this breaking news will erase all the other wrongs that Obama has done in his first 27 months in office and basically hand him the election 18 months in advance?

Not many questioned the invasion of Afghanistan (other than Truthers, and they'll still say we just murdered a scapegoat just now).  It got more popular as we've stayed there, but I don't think the War there was ever that unpopular.

No, that was 35 minutes ago.  It is now 11:05 EDT, 10:05 CDT. 8:05 PDT.  Remember, in Daylight Savings Time, the East Coast is 4 hours behind GMT.

No, it was supposed to be 10:30 P.M. EDT.  They're running behind.

Screw Pakistan they owe us anyway.

. . . Not really.  Its not like getting Bin Laden is mostly Obama's doing, or that national security issues were bringing Obama down more than anything else.

It still doesn't hurt either President Bush's image or President Obama's image.

Its hard to say. It will help him for quite awhile but its hard to see this making people forget about the economic problems for that long. If he wins, it will likely be the coninuance of the recovery that did it for him.

Yeah.  We're still a long way out from 2012 for this to matter that much by then.  It'll give him a big spike in approval ratings, but that won't last a year and a half.

Of course, President Clinton is probably saying somewhere that "if I had gotten him, we could have avoided all this mess."

Praise God!

CNN reporting he was killed in Islamabad; CBS saying Afghanistan.

All American are relieved that Osama is burning in hell, but W could have found him himself and had all the glory if he hadn't chosen to arbitrarily get bogged down in Iraq. He was such a disaster as president

That's true, but people will ask in October 2012, what was President Obama's lasting achievement, and why should I vote for him?  One answer will come from May 1, 2011 when the news broke that Osama Bin Laden was killed under his watch.

Yet CBS says we may have violated Pakistan's borders, to get him. Love that consistency.

Guess I'm not sleeping tonight. :)

I'm tired of waiting- when is Obama speaking?

Most voters don't think like that.

His ilk are a huge threat to Pakistan too, I don't think the Government is going to mind...

FOX is saying we have his body; he was identified with DNA from a family member, and he was killed in Pakistan.

YESSSSSSS!
This Bin Laden is no more, he has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker! This is a late Bin Laden He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed him to the perch he'd be pushing up the daisies! He's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This is an ex-Bin Laden!
USA USA

The Feds can always keep something quiet if they actually try.

Bush was far from a disaster and history will view hiim that way.  Iraq was necessary, IMO, because Saddam Hussein needed to be removed from office and he was not going to go through diplomatic means alone.  He may not have WMD's, but he could have attained them.  Saddam was a smart man, he knew exactly what to do.  So, Bush can claim Saddam Hussein and Obama can claim Osama Bin Laden, and maybe Col Gadhafi.

I was just about to go to asleep and was readind the Time special on the Civil War, when my brother came in and told me that they had broken in on CBS that Osama was dead and the Prez was gonna speak soon.

Cool!

If the economy shows some recovery the President will win hands-down based on the weak candidates on our side.  His election will also depend on what actions he takes regarding the war from here on in.  The death will have more effect on our feelings about the conflict than the convictions of terrorist organizations associated with him.

My whole night just got taken up.  I'll be up until early morning watching the news :(

Come on Barry!!!

Awww I wish I saw this thread earlier. I had my prediction that Osama was dead in writing 8:27 on facebook chat.

Side note, fox's "Usama" spelling is annoyeing me :P

They're actually pretty bad at. Nobody knows how to keep their mouth shut these days.

Well, I'm glad that he finally got his due. I don't know how much effect it will have on Obama's approval, but it's definitely worth a good amount a points a more than few people's books.

FOX is saying that he may have been killed up to a week ago, and they were waiting on the DNA confirmation.

It is what the FBI uses, though.

They say that they are "calabrating" statements for not just a US audience but for a world audience and for our enemies and thus the delay.

I wonder if the world stock markets will shoot up tomorrow?

There will be no bounce for Obama because of this.

Could be wrong. Good riddance to Osama though.

Usāmah bin Muḥammad bin ʿAwaḍ bin Lādin

There will be a positive psychological reaction... but we need to be careful thinking this will change everything... because it's pretty likely that won't be the case.

Now let's spend a decade hunting Zawahiri.

I can promise he gets at least some bounce.

It's definitely not a fix, but it will help the psychological aspect for tomorrow and likely the majority of the week until the jobs report.  The psychological can be just as important as the physical.  Never underestimate the power of psychology.

So can we repeal the PATRIOT Act and end the wars now? Or do we still need those?

CBS says that high level meetings were held at the White House this morning about this. They also said that Obama played 9 holes of golf instead of his regular 18, today.

And, deservedly so.

Maybe a small one. Nothing compared to what Bush would have gotten, or McCain.

Never should have signed the Patriot Act but, the wars can't just all of a sudden.  Even though more people will undoubtedly push for that, and it should happen soon, this is a symbolic victory, not a strategic one.

He was killed in a mansion outside Islamabad?

One of the analysts on CBS said stressed that the wars aren't over.


Susan Collins released a statement saying this was a "US Operation" not joint or anything and CBS stated again that this may have been done without the knowledge of Pakistan's gov't that will cause considerable upset there tomorrow.

Probably not, but he'll get at least 20-30 points I'm predicting.

CBS is now saying he was shot in the head.

Oh i"m sure Rush will use that to spin this against Obama.. "How dare he allow actions in Pakistan!  Now he's destabilizing them!"

Pakistan isn't our ally.  They are our enemy.. but the fact that they have nukes and terrorists/taliban means we have to prop up their government despite their harboring bin Laden and countless other terrorists since 9/11 (and before, of course).

Well, those were some stupid terrorists.
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CBS says Prez in 90 seconds.

Too bad this won't mean anything for Afganistan nor will it tone done security for everything.

And they won't have the Super Bowl in January again.

"Death will come to you wherever you may be, even if you were in strong fortresses..."

The Holy Koran Nisa 4:78 (part)

I've been waiting nearly a decade to say that.  :)

Obama: America conducted an operation that killed Bin Laden.

I liked his poetic start to the speech.

Was it as satisfying as you imagined?

I hate it. He is just horrible. He being obama.

How so?

Obama is taking credit with masterful speech-writing.

I will expect a 10-20 point boost in the polls, but ephemeral.  It will drop out within a fortnight.

We can expect an upswing in terrorist attacks over that same period.

Pakistan may collapse in that time.

"Today at my direction, the U.S. launched a targeted attack against that compound.

...

After i firefight, they killed Osama Bin Laden and took custody of his body."

Confirmed that we "should stay vigilante in our war against terror."

"We will be relentless in defence of our citizens, and friends and allies."

Abbottābad, Pakistan (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Abbott%C4%81bad,+Abbottabad,+Khyber+Pakhtunkhwa,+Pakistan&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.042042,86.572266&ie=UTF8&geocode=FWsJCQIdhTFdBA&split=0&hq=&hnear=Abbott%C4%81bad,+Abbottabad,+Khyber+Pakhtunkhwa,+Pakistan&ll=34.125448,73.256836&spn=18.797758,43.286133&z=5), fyi.

I have a big grin on my face and a warm feeling in my heart.  The plane heading for the Pentagon flew over my head and the one that went down in Shanksville flew over my cemetery plot.

I am absolutely overjoyed that he is rotting and that I am typing.  :)

That was a great ending to that speech.

Well I really hate it when people use patriotism as a licsence to kill. Our people? you kidding me? The only thing that makes us american is us just saying we are. nothing else. I find is dishonest. It makes me want to vomit when he pulls a card like that. Be honest and keep the facts clean. And stop brainwashing us into thinking we are one when we dont even know half of the peopl living in america. yuck!

Oh my.. He said "One nation under God..", "God Bless America". 

Let the secular hysteria commence.  :)

FOX is saying that he called the President and Prime Minister regarding the attack.  Not sure if that means before or after it happened though.

What's the point of having a country then?  Or the point of unity?  Or of patriotism all in of itself?

A truly amazing picture I just found on Twitter:

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Bush released a statement saying that Obama called and told him earlier today and he congratulated Obama and the troops.

But did he say to Bush "we got him"?

Al Jazeera sez that Bin Laden was apparently in a house in the city of Abbottābad itself.

I'm going to be interested to see some stats on the Twitter updates and Facebook statuses per second from tonight.  It must be wild.

Bring it on.

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there is a point. But it is merely to make social connections. But it should never be used to end someones life and to make to seem that is ok. That makes me mad. A life is a life, and to make us think that because we are 'americans' we have to right to kill someone despite what they have done, and are 'defending our people' is crap. There is no need to lie. If you are going to kill someone it should be because he has killed many people. Not because he killed americans. Had they not been americans obama would not give a sh**t.

Simply put, Osama tried to kill me.  He was not successful.

We remain. 

Celebrating the death of someone makes you a dick, but is Bin Ladden an acception to this rule?

And which one do you think matters more to the Americans?  That he killed Americans or that he killed people?  As you said, we do not know half the country itself, but I think it is safe to say that more than half care about the death of Americans than the death of people as a whole.

Celebrating the death of someone makes you a dick, but is Bin Ladden an acception to this rule?

The scene outside the White House has gotten more lively.

I know I'm going to get attacked for this, but while Presidents Obama and Bush deserve a lot of credit as does our military, all the glory belongs to God.  He gave the US Intelligence the ability to find Bin Laden and delivered Bin Laden into our hands.

Took long enough.

Awesome.

I disagree. I care far more when patriotism is out of the question. Honestly, i care more about people dying period. Not Americans. And it is rather low to party over someone dying! no matter what it is just rude. If justice is served already there is not need to dance about in the streets. Partying makes the theory of justice just dissolve away. There is no justice. Man i despise people right now.

Please change the name of this thread to make it the official dead Osama thread. It's not clear from just Obama to speak and somebody will inevitably make a duplicate thread otherwise.

Grow up.

Anyone else notice that today is the 8 year anniversary of Bush's Mission Accomplished Speech?

I agree.

Seeing that huge crowd of young people gathering kind of makes me feel all fuzzy and patriotic inside.

Watching it on CNN. Some douche is waving a "Bush-Cheney 04" placard. ::)

A 10 year muddled design with random intelligence drops was much easier than forcing miscarriage back in '57 or a cliche lightening strike.

I have, that's why I said what I did.

As I said, more than half.  And the partying only proves that point.

People are seeing it on TV and saying "hey let's go celebrate on TV, too!"

You believe an invisible space person deserves glory over troops who risked their lives to do this?

You seem to misunderstand. I know that americans care about this. But i think they are simply ignorate pricks who lack the ability to see how they are being brainwashed by the government and their peers.

& you hold all the answers?  Teach me oh wise one...

Leave the guy alone.  So he's a bit "enthusiastic" about his faith.  Show a little tolerance.

He gave the troops the ability and the health to go in and find this guy.  Sure, the military deserves credit and I'm not taking anything away from them.  But God, being in charge of the ENTIRE earth and being able to do whatever He wants, gave us the ability to find him.

How?  I want to as well.

Go to the first post and edit it.

Please don't turn this into another thread focusing on BushOK.

Okay, I got it.  :)

I can appreciate where your coming from. I don't like to see people jubiliant over anyone's death, but really it is understandable, when you consider how he did set out to kill Americans, so Osama made himself the enemy of all Americans.  He has been the focus of people's hurt over the attacks on 9/11 and fears of another attack, so this feels like a relief, though I don't know how much it will make people safer. I do hope no innocent people died in the attack, but sadly it's likely someone did.

It's BushOklahoma.

You're right. I shall avoid responding to his trolling.

Then which one matters more to Americans through human psychology?  He presented it in the most sensitive way possible to the American people.  To many, the ends justify the means.  So he chose that path.

The fact of the matter is that there is no real person who is ignorant or is stupid or idiotic or daft.  These are just labels for the different ways people think.  If we start labeling them that way, then we give them the reprieve to label us in that way - and it opens up hell.  And that cycle is more vicious than anything.

Very interesting. OkBush is trying to steer the conversation from Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda and onto another quack comment about God and Religion. He is obviously trying to distract us from the news for some strange reason. Could it be...Bushie...has possibly found quality employment in...Al-Qaeda?

^^^^^^^^^^^

We wouldn't have this problem if we still had update. It could all be confined to one thread.

Oh yeah. This is AMAZING!! The crowds outside the WH are heart-swelling! :D

I imagine there will a lot of different events this week...

The crowd outside the White House seems to be entirely college student.

CNN is currently reporting on some of the anomallies that lead them to the house (heavy foot traffic, burning trash instead of pickup by the city, and no telephone/internet service despite being a million dollar home).

It was also a much large building than the rest of the neighborhood and was a walled compound.

Anya: A man who orchestrated the murder of almost 3000 people, plus countless other acts of barbarity, is finally brought to the permanent justice he so richly deserves after a decade of searching. Justice is served. Celebration is wholly warranted.

So the President responding to Libya had nothing to do with his suggested motive?  As in, protecting civilians.  I think you're off and I generally don't agree with the President.

Hell ya stolichnaya for all!

Does God also deserve the Glory for 9/11 itself? 

So, how does Bin Laden compare to other villains of American History in terms of threat?

He's probably ahead of all of them except Stalin and Goodwin's Law.

Well, in that case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupsPg5H6aE&feature=related

We remain.  :)

I wish I was in D.C. right now... I would be over at hte White House celebrating.

Rot in Hell you worthless POS.

I don't wish to celebrate anyone's death, but we made the best possible move here. There could have been no trial, it would have been absurd. Justice has been done, finally we can move on as a nation. That man has also done so much harm to Islam, a faith than I've very much come to respect. I couldn't be more glad see him gone and this era drawing to a close.

Does anybody else really want them to bring Chris Matthews out?

No, that was Satan.  God does not side with those who break his commandment of thou shall not kill, which he was joyful when he gave the American and Pakistani special forces the health and strength to kill people today.

It ain't closing until we're finally out of Afghanistan and all the security everywhere is back to pre-911 levels.

Well you see take out Americans and then I will take this as a matter for humanity. But as of the fact that you yourself are using americans as a group, as a whole, I shall not. And if you think that him dying will help us you are wrong! He has a man in charge incase anything happens to him. And this partying will only fuel that fire as well, thereby subjecting humans to more casualties when they attack again.  But no one thinks about that. No one sees how much more harm this partying is doing. And attacks will increase. They will probably go for DC now. And will most likely succeed.
And to be the enemy of all americans? rly? That is effed up. everyone around the world should be upset that this is happening period. Even people in china and India. But i presume that these attacks increased with us merely occupying them.

Badger:
Celebration my ass. I dont care if justice was served. When someone dies you simply don't party. Do you not know that this will add fuel to the fire? We are no where near done. Yes he should die, I agree with that seniment, but my reason differs from most people. If your reason is nationalistic I would disagree. If it is purely on the fact that he has killed someone then yes, we agree. But it is important to notice the difference between the two different reasons.



Final vocab realy is a silly topic to talk about at the moment.

Can you do me a favor and stop saying american, it just makes me want to vomit. Because I can tell you that it has upset most of the world, not just americans. So can americans for once just stop talking about it from a nationalistic point of view if other can? Drop American and then I will most likely agree with you.

No, that was clearly the work of the devil.  He invaded the minds of Osama Bin Laden and his associates and caused him to plan and carry out the attack.  What God does deserve credit for is the sense of unity and the outpouring of support we received in the days and weeks following.

Oh, and please don't make this thread about me.  You are a moderator, you should be the first one to squash another BushOK thread.

The feeling that I have is not celebration, but satisfaction, at least for tonight.  

My Sons of the American Revolution chapter is meeting tomorrow.

obama's rating will probably go to between 60-70...if that

The commandment "Thou Shall Not Kill" does not refer to heinous criminals such as murderers.

Not surprising that its heavily college students, George Washington University is a few blocks away.

The commantment is Thou shalt not Murder. There's a difference between murder and killing.

Enough focusing on me in this thread.  This thread is entitled "Osama Bin Laden dead" not "Attack BushOk for his religious beliefs thread" and not the update thread.  Let's keep the subject on Osama Bin Laden.

the ? now becomes what to do with pakistan...the US couldn't even trust them enough to inform them...except the US to be shown the door

Stop responding to them, then.

great day for US though

I'm thinking more like 70-80%... kind of hard to say at this point though.

Are we not debating the way that Obama delivered that statement?  That he stated that it was a nationalistic thing and not an international thing?  

I agree that it is a horrible thing that people use patriotism to condone such acts, and as such, I actually do not believe that these criminals should be killed - they should be captured and shown the error of their ways.

But as I was saying, Obama is the leader of a country, not the World.  And he is in all technicality, addressing a country, not the world.  To use a non-nationalistic POV would be ridiculous to make his message, because as a head of state of a country addressing his people, a nationalistic POV is the one people want.

It is the way of countries to do so, as such, it is the way of their people to do so.

One of my friends on facebook just chimed in saying that "somewhere Princess Catherine (official title - the Duchess of Cambridge) is saying "hey, this was supposed to be MY weekend!!!""

To be fair... he couldn't help himself but inject something totally unnecessary into the discussion... then act persecuted when someone calls him on it.

To everyone just ignore...

K. THX.

I'm taking the under on the over-under.  Obama doesn't break 55 from this.

I timed this post to hit when Obama said the word "dead."  It's there for history, a moment in time.

The scene in Times Squre is amazing.  FOX is the only one who has it on now - the rest are still on the White House.  I'm working on finding a picture.

In that case, it never ends. I just mean the whole open ended quest for Bin Laden and the existential War on Terror. Yeah they'll still use the term, but I feel it will lose its impact.

I'd be shocked by that.

Yep.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Osama-Bin-Laden-Compound-atlantic-128899003.html?x=0

someone mapped it.

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FOX is reporting that 3 other people were also killed by U.S. forces.

That is a valid point, but we did not do it purely out of the goodness of our heat. France and Britain dragged us in it.





Obama is being watched. By everyone in the world tonight. There is no reason to make the focus americans. It should be people, humans who are innocent. So leader of a country I dont care about as a reason to use americans. you only do that if you want to get a mass of people to feel as one, and make it seem that they are the subject, when it is just humans. Despite the practice, I think that it could be changed to suit the globe. Not just a small secter. But oh well.

 I have to go to bed and can not have this calm debate anymore. So thanks for a fun evening.

The statement from President Bush:

Yeah, I was just thinking this evening that this doesn't really change a whole lot.  Our mission is still the same.  The figurehead of Al-Qaeda is dead, but he was basically just that, I don't think he had any real power in al-Qaeda anymore.  This is indeed a victory and a great day, but I don't think it changes a whole lot.  As the President said, "we must and we will remain vigilant at home and abroad."

I feel badly for the woman used as a human shield.

It's an Okie joke.  A Jokie, if you will.

This quote by Rep. James Lankford (R, OK-5) on his facebook page.

"The death of bin Laden demonstrates the tenacity of the US military and intel community. This culminates nearly 20 years of persistent searching for this terrorist. Today, all Americans can celebrate a major accomplishment in our national security. The threat of terrorism remains alive and well however, and we should continue to support all the men and women who continue to risk their lives to keep us safe."

And this was my second favorite line in Obama's speech: "Let us remember that we can do these things not just because of wealth or power, but because of who we are:  one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." right behind "After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body."

Yeah, me too.  The al Qaeda legacy of cowardice is now complete, from mass homicide missions against unarmed civilians to hiding behind a woman during a raid. 

State Dept warns of potential backlash violence against Americans abroad.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_worldwide.html

Alright - I gotta get back to studying for my exams tomorrow.  Enjoy the celebrations!  We finally got him!

Was she harmed?  President Obama said no Americans or civilians were harmed, so I assume she wasn't, but there are undoubtedly others who know more than I do.

Good night/good morning, buddy!

Check out the place he was hiding: http://tinyurl.com/abottabad

Golf courses, squash courts, a hockey stadium, green trees, suburban houses? Pakistan's got 'spailing to do.

Yeah, the haters are gonna keep on hating. He'll get some support from the wishy washies though. I'd be shocked if he breaks 60 in any poll. It would have shot any GOP president over the moon. There's obviously a double standard.

squash courts?  Not sure i've ever heard of that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squash_%28sport%29

Conservatives are older and not as easily swayed.

She was killed--total casualties reported as, I believe, three men, two of them Osama and his son, and one woman.  I don't know any details about the woman, though the fact that she was in the compound probably prompts U.S. officials to count her as a bin Laden sympathizer.  When the president said no civilian casualties, I assume he meant that, despite the fact that the bin Laden compound was in a civilian neighborhood, no one else in the neighborhood outside the compound died or was hurt.

Also I haven't read most of this thread, so I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but all the jingoistic, revenge-fueled celebration is really gross and speaks pretty badly of Americans.

This was the last thing Osama saw

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Save it for the hangover.  We're drunk on nationalism tonight, Lief.

^^^^
I was floored when Inks said a "20-30 point jump for Obama"... 2-3 points is more likely than that!  
I'm sure Rush and all the retards on the radio will try to spin this against Obama any way they possibly can.

That's so sad.  It kind of puts a damper on this 'celebration' for lack of a better term.  At least there weren't anybody else harmed or killed outside of those three people.  I pray for her family.

We'll find out probably around mid to late week once the news sinks in and makes its way to the poll numbers.

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YESSS !!!

Oh stop being a downer Lief. Humans are a revengeful breed. It's human nature. Your country's military just killed one of the most corrupted and horrible men in the world. People have a right to celebrate it.

Obama gets some plus points of course for making bagging the badass a top priority, at the highest level, and then getting lucky. So any bumps he gets in the polls is deserved. JMO.

Just got off the phone with my uncle that was wounded on 9/11, I hope this helps him sleep.

They have a right to celebrate it, but it doesn't make it any less disgusting or disappointing. Death shouldn't be celebrated.

Awesome! I'm looking forward to that motion picture.

Just got back from the White House... I have some pretty amazing photos and videos I'll post tomorrow.

Crowd is almost entirely GW students with a few Georgetown kids arriving now. Hardly anyone over the age of 22 or so.

I am reminded of:

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Of course the Argies didn't kill thousands of Britons, but Bin Laden was only a part of the anti-American movement. Hopefully this closes the book on a sombre chapter of American history.

He's going to break 60%, you silly pessimistic liberals. I don't know if it will last but he will.

This is not what I expected to hear when I got back from the 7th Street Entry!

Wow... this picture is just awesome:

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It is kind of weird how this is basically just being used as an excuse by college kids to party. Are they drinking on the Mall?

I wish someone had announced this at the show after being texted or something.

I saw kids with beers earlier, so I'm assuming they're still drinking.

Yeah, picture-of-the-year-worthy.

This is a pretty interesting account of how the story began to get leaked out: http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/how-the-osama-announcement-leaked-out/?smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

Honestly, if I was still living by my school, I'd probably be out drinking... so I won't judge these young ones too harshly.

Lots of people smoking weed too.

People are smoking weed and drinking and lighting off fireworks downstairs/outside, but I'm being a responsible student and not partaking on a sunday night. Why couldn't Barry have announced it on a Friday or Saturday night?

Are you out there?

Al Jazeera was just showing video of the flaming compound.

I love how I save drinks for special occasions...

I was thinking about that. Could you imagine how insane things would have got then...

I did the "stand outside of the White House" thing when Barry got elected.  Once is enough for this lifetime.

I just got back. We're in the middle of finals so I could only stay out so long, but it's nuts out there. Thousands and thousands of college students.

You're too old to be out there now anyway. Hell, I'm probably too old.

I guess they're saying it was the Navy Seals who went in and did the job.

My brother is in the Navy, not a Seal, but in the Navy stationed at Kings Bay, Georgia (north of Jacksonville) and he was probably in bed when this announcement was made, but I bet he will be proud in the morning when he wakes up.  He probably won't give any credit to President Obama, but he will probably give credit to the military.  BTW, my brother is a man that did not like President Bush and does not like President Obama.

I wonder if they'll ever name the guy who took him out. Well probably not as they're not even sure who it was, but imagine what it's like to be one of those guys now.

The idea of getting blitzed and rallying at 2 am in front of the White House is such a great thing I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

He's got one heck of a story to share with his kids and grandkids.  It reminds me of a guy I graduated high school with who was among those that found Saddam Hussein in the bunker in December 2003.

FOX is reporting that the troops did ask him to surrender before he was eventually shot.

There's also unconfirmed reports that there are pictures of him after he was shot.

I'm sure the First Family are wishing they'd go home and go to bed already and let them sleep.  The President has a lot of work ahead of him today and he needs his beauty sleep.  And, oh, Malia and Sasha may still have school today.

Don't SEALs wear mini-cameras on their gear? The footage and details of this operation need to be released for entertainment/historical purposes.

LOL at fireman Pelosi.

I didn't even notice that.  I think most people just focus on Stassi and his reaction.

To those speculating about Obama's approval ratings: my Facebook feed was filled with people complaining about Obama "taking credit" for something that wasn't his and also complaining about he will use this to get re-elected. While you could tell that this was only coming from the partisan yokels that inhabit my state, that means Obama will be lucky to break 60% approval ratings.

He'll get up to the high 50s/maybe low 60s for a week and be at positive approval ratings for a month, maybe two months.

I'm sticking with what I said earlier.  He won't pass 55.

In addition to the generally patriotic things that the media is reporting as being chanted in front of the White House, there were also chants of "Obama" and "Obama killed Osama". Unsurprisingly those are being largely left out of news articles.

     TBH, I couldn't see approving of Obama over this. While getting Bin Laden is a powerful symbolic moment, the guy stopped being relevant years ago. This will have no impact whatsoever on the life of anybody in the country today, & it is ultimately quite trivial compared to all of the other things one could judge the Obama Administration on.

Maybe not in Scott Rasmussen's poll. He will in the others.

CNN is reporting they've already burried Bin Laden at sea.

FOX has also confirmed it.

So since he's already been buried at sea, how long until right-wing commentators accuse Obama of fabricating his death for political benefit?

I assume this was done so that his burial ground doesn't become a magnet for nutjobs from all over the Muslim world.


I predict another book from Jerome Corsi.

Or becuz IT WAS StAGED!11!!

EDIT TO ADD: 19% in the online CNN insta-poll say they do not believe Bin Laden is daed ::)

Not right-wing.  The crazy Truthers will say that, but then again, Bin Laden was "innocent" all along.

That was exactly the reasoning, and I think it was VERY smart.

Also, the reason it was done so quickly was to abide by Islamic practice, which apparently requires the body to be burried within 24 hours.

No, to all of it.

Bin Laden has remained relevant due to the fact he was the leader of a major terrorist organization that is still active around the world to this day.

It already has had an impact on thousands of Americans who suffered on 9/11, and even those who have not. Justice has definitely been served, and its been long overdue. America needed this.

Successfully tracking down and killing the most wanted man in the world is not what I would consider "trivial". This will go down has a major success, whether you like the President or not.

Not bad.

     A major terrorist organization whose operations have been distinctly limited in impact for some time now. The past is the past &, whether or not justice is being served, it pains me to see taxpayer dollars being chalked up to something like this.

     I agree that this will go down as a major success, but mainly because people care more for symbolism than functionality. It's why Bush's approval ratings went up to 90% on 9/11 even though there was no more reason to approve of him then than there was on 9/10.

You can argue that Al Qaeda has been limited in activity for years, but they continue to be a threat globally regardless of how "active" they've been. Also, Bin Laden remained wanted for his atrocities on 9/11 that killed thousands. If that's not much incentive to continue searching for him and "wasting" taxpayer dollars, than I dunno what is.

     As long as the killers have been effectively neutralized, I don't consider getting them as being important enough to warrant a long-term manhunt. I'm happy that he's gone, but I'm just not seeing it as a huge moment of victory for the American people or anything.

That's unfortunate.

I agree with your last point, but not the first.  Criminals need to be brought to justice, especially those that orchestrate mass murder.  It took a long time for a myriad of reasons, but it's done.  We should be pissed it took so long, but glad it's finally done.

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Also, I guess I agree with PiT.  Like many people, I'd pretty much forgotten about bin Laden until now.  You can't really blame us either; the government tried it's hardest to encourage us to forget about him once it became apparent that they had no idea where he was for nearly a decade.

"I am truly not that concerned about him." - George W. Bush, March 2002

I won't say that this development is trivial, but it is a bit of a distraction.

Very, very happy this morning :D

GOOD RIDDANCE!


Sorry, but it's correct. There's no "O" in Arabic.

It's amazing how some in the international community are slamming America for Bin Laden's death.

I'm eager to see if Eric Cantor responds to this the way he had responded to drops in the unemployment rate since November.

God Bless America.

Who?

As far as I can tell, only Hamas (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4063407,00.html), even the Muslim Brotherhood avoided condemning America and just said that now that he is dead America should "stop occupying Muslim land", which is what they were saying before anyway.

Oh, he's dead. Great. Now we can feel as if we've accomplished something.

The bastard is dead. Why to spoil a moment of joy?

He had it coming of course, but I just don't find any joy in killing.

<sigh> It's already happening. A quick review of web traffic shows a loud minority refusing to believe it (Obama staged it for political purposes, etc, etc). It seems we already have a new political sub-movement---the "deathers". ::)

Even more widespread is the angry retort in the middle of anti-Obama screeds of "Obama didn't get Osama, the U.S. military did". Sadly, expect this denunnciation of giving the Commander-in-Chief an ounce of credit for a military mission he personally authorized after a series of meetings on the subject to be the line du jour of professional Obama haters. Watch how long before this becomes the de facto official response of the right. Professional haters like Rush and Hannity will combine it with an explicit "so don't give President Obama credit here" kiss-off, while Congressional and party leaders will simply pointedly leave mention of Obama out of most celebratory statements. W's response congratulating the President and the military will likely be among the exceptions to the rule.

I'm not trying to be political; I'm just sad how political this has already become in this divided country.

This is one of the rare cases joy is well-justified.

And you are entitled to your opinion. I am just sharing my own feelings.

Good riddance.......can we pull our troops out of the region now?   Please?  2 billion a week in Afghanistan not to mention soldier's lives isn't worth it.

The fact that he struck your 'home' should not make it stronger.  Why should it? does terror and pain for others only go to a certain extent basided on distance? Do families suffer less based on how far they are off american land? To celebrate a death is just wrong. Yes, he deserved his ending. But no, you should not party in the streets like morons because Our country got him. Our country didn't get him. Certain people in the military got him, not out country. They just happen to have a liscense to kill with the flag on behind them.  To be happy one guy has paid for his crime is one thing. it binge drink to it like everything is good now is just rude. I know what you are saying I do. I get it I simply don't agree. Empathy for everyone should be the same for everyone around the world, not just at home. Space and time compression makes it far easier to do that. Yet, most people only care when it is here. I must say, I am very happy he is dead, despite him being quite handsome. But I am happy for a different reason. It has nothing to do with america. It has to do with people. A little change like that.  But since I can merely state myself over and over again for a little while before I grow tired, i suggest we just agree to disagree. Besides, I will be the only one in the class who isnt nationalistic today will will prnbably punch a guy who is a prick. So i have to go get ready for being suspended. Have a good day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McHyLKw5mHc

You're going to get punched for being a prick, Kal.......careful.

Anya: Of course it makes it stronger and naturally so. There are many, many people who suffered far, FAR worse than me on that day by far. My memories of that day hit home nonetheless. I have a sister who worked in the Financial District. She was fine, but her stories of watching the Towers collapse from her window, and trying to calm a hysterical co-worker sobbing under her desk because her fiance worked at WTC--but survived, thank God--are harrowing. She lost her faith in God that day from the death she watched, and not sure if she ever recovered it. I had a long term girlfriend who worked for the government in Alexandria. I'd confused it with Arlington at the time, but that didn't make it any less harrowing a morning till we touched base. I have a father who at the time flew on USAir all the time out of Pittsburgh, and I didn't know for sometime where the plane in Shanksville, PA had flown out of---only that it was not too far out of Pgh International. Then there's the WTC: Beautiful---I'll never forget their view, or their majesty.

So yes, I didn't suffer directly the way many did, but it hurt---badly---and not just because I'm an American. Most of us wept over our grandparent's death, but do we weep equally for every grandparent we read about dying in the obits? Of course not, because the loss is more personal. The same applies here, even if I don't (fortunately) know anyone directly killed or injured in 9/11.

Try at least not to ruin your own day by getting suspended, eh? If you are so against violence being justified by nationalism, punching someone in the name of anti-nationalism hardly proves a point.

I would have taken his body and hug it at the South Pole on top of a 20 foot pole with a camera and spot light continuously on it.  hopefully it would have become a shrine attracting millions of Islamists.

I weren't, naturally, personally touched with 9/11 attacks. I didn't know anyone, who was. But, no matter how idiotic it may sound, I was a 12-year old stupid kid at the time, and I got a scared the s**t out of me by what happened. So I have no empathy for trash like Bin Laden. Good riddance, DIAF etc. etc.

Even in this time of extreme patriotism, it's good to see jmfcst is still at the top of his game when it comes to making inappriopriate remarks about Islam.

They should have used the body for experimentation. Perhaps they could have created a Frankenbinladen.

wanting the followers of Osama to drop dead, whether by bullet or by frost, is an inappropriate remark about Islam?!

Sounds like you need to start writing a manuscript, eh?

I sware there will be a Call of Duty map that simulates what the Navy SEALS did last night. Might be a good map.

I wrote on the 2012 board that I think the long term reprocussions for Obama are more significant than any bump in approval. People's confidence in him as a Commander-in-Chief, a decisive and strong leader should rise quite a bit. Any allegations that basically call him unpatriotic won't stick and those people will look radical and/or insane...

It is a bit odd celebrating the death of someone --but the fight certainly is not over. Even though al-Qaeda is severely weakened they won't stop. Efforts to repel threats should be taken more seriously than ever due to fear of retaliation.

Former President Musharaff of Pakistan called the US's actions a violation of Pakistan sovereignity...sucks for him I guess. If someone told me that Pakistan was harboring Osama the entire time I wouldn't be surprised.

it's quite obvious many key members of the Paki government and military were aiding Osama.  Not all, but enough for it be hopelessly compromised.  If I were POTUS, I would at least have plan to take out Paki nukes if necessary - though it made be too late - they may already be dispersed to unknown locations, both inside and outside Paki territory.

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Just a comment on to back up what's been said about former Pakistani president Musharraf.  He is an asshat.  Pakistani "sovereignty" is a joke, they ceded great portions of the frontier to the Taliban and al-Qaeda sympathizers, and they knew full damn well where bin Laden was holed up.  If we had given advanced notice to the Pakistani government before the raid, somebody in the ISS would have tipped off the people in the compound and it would have been empty by the time the special ops team got there.  And, besides, when the raid went down, the Abadabad police and ISS units present wisely did not interfere.  Those guys in Islamabad are sandwiched between hostile Talibani and Afghan forces on one side and relatively hostile India on the other, and they're quite frankly not in a position to do lots of bitching.  By making that dumb-ass comment, Musharraf is playing to the nutbags in Pakistan, aforementioned asshat that he is.

Yay, Bin Laden is dead, good news and all that.

But to whoever said they also would celebrate if someone who killed 3000 non-Americans would die, good luck with posting your celebration here the day W kicks the bucket. Just sayin'

An interesting account of a guy who unknowingly Tweeted about the raid on Bin Laden's compound: http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/social.media/05/02/osama.twitter.reports/index.html?eref=rss_latest&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+Most+Recent%29

Just like Adolf Eichmann then.

Excellent news and Bin laden thoroughly deserved it. Probably got off too lightly tbh. And if I was still at college, I would have partied my ass off too. Nothing wrong with celebrating his death. Btw he killed a lot of non-Americans too so those of you not comfortable with any patriotism can take comfort in that. ::)

I also dont care one bit we violated pakistans soveirgnty. If they behaved like a normal country it wouldn't be necessary. America shouldn't put up with any of their bullsh**t. If we know there is a terrorist being harbored in that country we should go in and get him. Trusting the pakistanis to get him would be a grave mistake.

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(Younger posters probably won't get the reference.)

Samuel L. Jackson. Nice.

A Time to Kill.  Great Movie

What is natural does not make it right. I get what you are saying. I am no Bin Laden sympathizer But if this happen in china my feelings about it should be just as strong. No matter where it has happened. There is no little piece of DNA that ties us all together stamping us americans. But there are stamping us human.  So it is rather silly to say that just because it is in america it is more personal. I just feel that weather it is an american or someone in china is doesnt change the level of wrongness. And it should not change the level of rage you have.  

true. I suppose I should simply just skip the class. far better for my fist to. :P

I hop he was shot in the crotch so someone can make an Inglorious Basterds reference (Like "Say *goodbye in Arabic* to your jihadist balls!")

A Time To Kill? Samuel L. Jackson...-chuckles-...classic.

is part of this thread debating whether it was right to kill Osama?! "Thou shall not kill [mass murderers]" type of stuff?

no. it is about the reason to reason him. He is to be killed. both sides agree on that. But we differ on the excuse used to have the right to kill him.

What I hope Obama said before the team went in: "That's it! I've had it with these motherf**king terrorists in this motherf**king country!"

who needs an excuse? the guy is a terrorist and an active and  sworn enemy to those living out their lives in freedom.

He was a mass murderer. He deserved to be captured or killed. It doesn't even matter who he murdered, whether they were Americans or not. He was a mass murderer, end of story.

see  i agree with that. but i dont agree with people only getting mad because he killed americans. Here the reason they are mad is because they hurt americans. not because he hurt people. notice the difference?

FILM CRITIC. THE ROOM.

The reports of Bin Laden going down with machine gun in hand makes me think of one thing and one thing only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6L8NFcMakk

I just read on the bottom ticker on the CNN screen that the woman being used as a shield was apparently Bin Laden's wife.  His son is also among the dead.

One of his sons. He has many.

He now has one less son.  So does Gadhafi.

I think most people hate him because he killed people in general... doesn't matter if it was Americans, British, Japanese, or whatever.  But, having Americans killed gives the American government a vested interest in killing him.  If no Americans had died becaues of bin Laden, Pakistan might not have looked too kindly on us just swooping into their country to kill somebody who had never harmed us.

That doesn't sound so Christian.......are your parents and church bretheren happy too?

That makes little sense (in Bin Laden's case). Seeing as his son is no more dead than he himself is.
I just looked it up, and Bin Laden has had 24 children from five marriages (one divorced - never more than four at a time). 11 from his first marriage, four from the divorced one, didn't give details on the others.
The oldest would be in their thirties, the youngest would be under ten.

You bet they are!!  This guy was a tyrant and a good-for-nothing creature.  We are Christians, yes, but we are also Americans and we are patriotic Americans to boot, not to mention we are also humans.

Excuse me, what? Bin Laden was a man responsible for death of people of very diffrent orgins, my countrymen and other Europeans (see London, Madrid for example) as well. Oh, not to mention Arabs, Afghans, Pakistanis etc. etc.

According to politico, Rush Limbaugh is doing an about-face by saying "Thank God for President Obama."

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54122.html

In fairness, wasn't this one of his adult sons who was a big a bastard as dad (hence staying with daddy the terrorist)?

Are you kidding Johnny? Tony Montana was way cooler than Osama.

I think she's saying that Americans are only getting mad because he killed Americans.

Wow! :o I am shocked, and equally happy to admit I was wrong.

Please let it last. I don't expect the right wing news to merely treat Obama as a "worthy advisary" from here on in, but on this one issue maybe it can last.

Maybe?

Well, considering Osama's deadliest attack happened at U.S. soil and American people were the target, it's not suprising Americans hate him to this degree.

While military experts wanted to bomb the Pakistani mansion where bin Laden was hiding, Limbaugh said, Obama may have “single-handedly [come] up with the technique” of attacking the target at the ground level. He credited the president with much more military prowess than Obama critics usually attribute to the president.

“President Obama, perhaps the only qualified member in the room to deal with this, insisted on the Special Forces,” he said. “No one else thought of that…. Not a single intelligence adviser, not a single national security adviser, not a single military adviser came up with the idea of using SEAL Team 6 or any Special Forces.”

Wow. Words to follow I have never said before, or likely ever will again:

"Ditto Rush".

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54122.html#ixzz1LDut7tN7

I've never seen Rush look so happy!

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Are we sure that there was only one SEAL team operating last night?
Are we sure that none of their colleagues was seen yesterday around Rush's mansion replacing him with a double?

Yes, I agree. But everyone should be upset. And my point is if it was in japan americans should still be equally pissed off. Here in sf, the talk is that they f-cked with the wrong country.  And if he attacked japan  that they wouldnt care. This is what i am hearing in sf today. So I am simply saying that when you get mad you should take out nationalism and patriotism. That is all. Until then I wouldnt agree with how people are thinking.

ummm, part of the US government's stated responsibility is to protest the safety of Americans against violence, both foreign and domestic.

I think most Americans would care.  Now, if he had attacked only Japan, I'd personally care, but I wouldn't advocate us going into Pakistan to get him.

Google maps view and diagram of the compound:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/bin-laden-compound-abbottabad-google-maps_n_856225.html

(google maps images are actually mistagged...dunno where to find the actual compound)

I'm sure the plan to bury Bin Laden at sea had been made well in advance. Finding a country willing to accept his body for burial would be difficult if not impossible, as any such site would be a magnet for crazies, and any country willing to accept his remains would make his tomb into a shrine.

I entered the coordinates on Wikipedia in Google Maps and got this place:

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.169167,73.2425&spn=0.01,0.01&t=h&q=34.169167,73.2425

yeah, that's correct. I feel bad for the people living in the other compound, as their home is now mistagged as Bin Laden's hideout. Unless they're also terrorists :P

Well see, that is my point. You would care but no enough to do anything about it. But let it happen to america and you would be the first one to want to go get 'justice'.


Right and I am saying that I dont like that. Why cant the world jus protect eachother? It would be far better if there was teamwork. But really everyone only cares about their own nation more then others.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/05/02/osama_and_chants_of_usa

wow, what a bunch of hacks, I guess Hitler won because of the pandemonium of Times Square after the war was over:

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Yeah... I read that Sirota piece earlier and while I usually like his work I have to disagree (I also think he's mostly trying to be contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian but that's neither here nor there.)

These celebrations would've happened had Bin Laden been captured alive as well. The public outpouring was more about finding closure and justice in the events of 10 years ago and not bloodlust. I know it's difficult to differentiate the two because the closure was tied to a violent death, but it seemed like the excitement last night wasn't really about the fact that he was dead so much as the fact that this chapter was now, in the heads of many people, finally over.

People react in different ways because, well, people are different and there's nothing wrong with that. I think drawing sweeping conclusions about this spontaneous burst of human emotion into a boarder picture of American society is tempting but just goes a step too far. Some folks reacted to the news with somberness and introspection; some reacted with cheering in the streets and hanging out with their friends and families. Different strokes for different folks. No need to criticize others for the way they handle things emotionally.

Hacks for what? They merely have a different opinion than you.

And Rush is absolutely right.

Obama took a risk, presumably after asking the military what was possible.  In that respect, he wasn't being Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton.

We need like buttons. it would be so much easier then simply quoting and sayng, "this".

Guys, Limbaugh was being sarcastic.  Some of you are really quite dense.

saying we have lost because we celebrate the death of and victory over enemies of freedom is a completely backward idea that belittles the harm done by these tyrants.

Without being attacked first of having the threat of attack, the U.S. wouldn't be internationally justified to do anything about it, at least not without international backing.

Considering the intelligence (or lack thereof) of his listeners we can then safely say that he chose the wrong way to denigrate Obama.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He might have meant it as sarcasm, but it is still right.

Obama, Hillary, Biden and Gates in the Situation Room.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/

The articles are all misquoting him.  He was using sarcasm if you actually listened to it.  He gave the President credit for continuing the Bush policy, and said that the President was taking all of the credit over the military, because he's "the only qualified member.."

Part of me hates the celebrations. It's akin to the photos we see from anti-Westerners in the Middle East celebrating violence in the West.

Come on. We're better than this.

He did.  I listened to him this morning.  He was complaining about how Obama used the words "me" and "I" in his speech.

Jmcfst, please stop referring to Osama as a 'dictator'. The guy was a terrorist, that's something different. Some cynical part of me is thinking you're conciously calling him a dictator to imply that he was in any way a leading figure in the Muslim community. We both know intellectual dishonesty is far from being a no-go for you.

He cited directly the article in The Hill, and one in The Huffington Post that was submitted less than half an hour after his comments.  He was practically laughing and said to one caller, "Are you a journalist, because journalists don't understand sarcasm."  before the articles were posted.  Strangely enough, I think he was right about that.

I feel sorry for the guy.

And Twitter has now released stats from last night.  During the President's speech, the average was 3,400 tweets per second with a peak of over 5,100 around 11:00 P.M. EDT.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/social.media/05/02/bin.laden.twitter.record/?hpt=Sbin

I've only read the first three pages, but if you go back there, it's really interesting watching it unfold if you already know the answer. "It's Gadhaffi!" "Definitely Libya." "Okay it's not Libya." "Osama, I think." "FOX said he's dead." "Don't rush to conclusions." "Osama's dead." It's so cool to watch how it comes together. I must say, though, that I was expecting more cheers from the posters.

Now, for my celebration:
Hah! He's fuckin' dead! I can't believe it!

Yes, I know, very un-Christian, but when I heard about it today at school, I wanted to scream or something, just from the surprise. When I heard some kids talk about them shooting "him" down, I asked "Wait, you mean Gadaffi?" "No! Osama" "What? He's fuckin' dead?"

What is stopping us from getting it? we could at least try to get it. it is like, if you saw someone get mugged would you let them get mugged because it was not your place to help?

I'm not saying that's how it should be.  I'm saying that's how it is.  We got rid of a bad man in Iraq and the world DID NOT like that.  If the U.S. wants to be Superman for the world, that's an option.  But not everybody around the world likes us going into the Lybias, Iraqs, and the Serbias of the world.

well of course not. But you also have to see who is getting mad and who is benefitting from the situation as well. If a country asked us to help them, then we should. However we are digressing from the topic. :P

Well, if the country is ruled by a dictator, the country itself isn't going to ask for help.  That's where the gray zone is... when do we have a duty to help?  And what do we do to help?  Not everybody wants American Democracy, and we shouldn't force that on people who don't want it.

if they dont want it then they wont have a problem with how they are being ruled.

Don't want what?  American Democracy?  There's plenty of other styles of government besides how we do it here.

Dictatorships even work for some countries, but the problem with that is that you won't ALWAYS have a "good" dictator.

lol wut

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/the-rock-osama-bin-laden-death_n_856381.html

What i am more are less unsecessfully getting at is that despite how they are being ruled they can always ask us to help for a different kind of gov besides ours. Ours isnt even that great. If they wanted a communist government and asked our help for it then we should help them. And who they elect is up to them. We shouldn't kick out their choice and put in our to suit us like we have done so many times.

you might be quoting the wrong post, if not the wrong person

Major media fail, especially in Germany ... :P

Steffen Seibert, press speaker of German Chancellor Merkel:

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"Obama, responsible for the death of thousands of innocents, has derided fundamental values of Islam and all Religions."

www.spiegel.de:

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"US Military buries Obama at sea."

I guess they were all just a bit too excited, huh?

Makes sense - The Rock was probably part of the team that carried out the mission.

Why was John Lithgow there?  (Blue shirt, standing behind the seated General Webb.)

He became Obama's National Security Advisor when Rahm left. Bit of a shake-up.

I might have known. I only took it from the article, of course. But I'm not at all shocked that even during this moment of transcendent patriotism that Limbaugh would be a major league douche. ::)

If I may take a moment and clarify my position and the position of most Christians I know on the death of Osama Bin Laden.  We celebrate the removal of evil.  We don't celebrate the death of a non-believer.

I'm overjoyed by Bin Laden's death, but where do Christians draw the line between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" killings? The Catholic Church, for example, has said his death should not be celebrated, although I'm unaware of any official stance on the killing itself.

So serious question: how is allowed to be killed from a Christian viewpoint? A mass murderer? Any murderer on the street?

As said, I support what was done 100% here, but certainly not for any religious reasons.

No one is buying the CYA here, Bushie.

I would use the rabid dog analogy.

Normally, I would not shoot a dog.  If there was a rabid dog with the potential for infecting (and killing) people in my neighborhood, I would shoot it.

They apparently sent Keanu Reeves and Dwayne Johnson over to the kill, so it makes sense.

well, dude, make up your mind:  Are you going to celebrate the removal of Osama, or are you not going to celebrate the removal of Osama?   As for me, I celebrate OBL's death, regardless if he were a believer or not.  I celebrate the death of any and all tyrants, "Christian" or otherwise, who refuse to change their ways and instead are determined to destroy.

While he was alive I prayed for him to turn from his ways.  But now the man is dead.  It's too late for regrets and prayers.  Celebrate, giving God thanks, and turn the page, for his fate is sealed.

Luke 9:60 "“Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”

The difference between jmfcst and him would make an interesting subplot in the BushOK movie.

Rom 12:17 - 12:21

17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

the difference between BushOK and me is BushOK takes on a reverent tone in his posts, while I use the same tone regardless if I am talking about God or about baseball.  I don't have separate tones, and I certainly dont have a reverent one. ;)

so, you're using a bible passage to condemn self defense?  something tells me you're going to have a hard time making that interpretation mesh with either the OT or the NT

Something tells me that as much as you want to use biblical passage to support your argument, that realistically none of us knows what position God would take.  Personally, I think God would be sad that Osama did not embrace him but, like I said, I don't pretend to know God's every stance.

Screw the Bible and the Catholic Church. He's dead. I'm glad. Mad props to President Obama and the special forces who carried out his order flawlessly.

Good thing I wasn’t driving when I read your post, because I’m all, “OMG, he doesn’t even get it!”  In other words, what’s the purpose of scripture if not to relay the will of God?

I’m not celebrating the fact Osama is going to hell, God is not either (1Tim 2:4 “ God wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth”), but I am celebrating the fact his death removes his tyrannical presence from the earth.

That’s why we have cops, and soldiers, and any other form of self defense: to protect ourselves, even through the use of deadly force, from evil men.

So, feel free to debate interpretation, but don’t fool yourself into forgetting the purpose of scripture.

2Tim 3:15  “The holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

But Jmcfst, maybe God sent Osama as a scourge to punish the gay-loving United States. How can you know he didn't? Remember that many of the prophets weren't exactly popular with the sinners they had come to rescue.

was the WTC the center of homosexuality in the US?  Or the Pentagon?

I understand what you're saying.  But you have to remember that many Iraqis hailed us as liberators in the beginning of the war, and we got rid of a man who was killing thousands.

speaking of Osama...*IF* that bastard some how comes back to life, he's the AntiChrist:

Revelation 13:3
One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.

Revelation 13:12
He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.


That's why it's important that I post that pic  ;)

No, very few did outside Kurdistan. Most Iraqis outside his tribe and government supporters liked Saddam, and many feared/loathed him. But don't let that confuse the difference between dislike or even hatred of Saddam and supporting a foreign non-Muslim army invading and occupying one's homeland. The two are not synonymous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_War

Not to say there aren't reasonable critiques of Aquanis's doctrine, and it may not completely fit, but FWIW it is still well accepted by the Catholic Church IIRC.

really now, the arguing over whether it was morally right to kill him is not only [asinine and] boring, it is also beyond the scope of this thread.

also troubling was the comment that if a country wants communism, the US should help that country move towards communism.  why should we help a country move towards a system that doesn't believe in the basic freedoms of unalienable rights we see as so self-evident?  (that was a rhetorical question, not really interested to hear it being argued)

That's exactly my point--where do you say, "We should go in and help!"?  How many people in a country need to ask for help from the outside for it to be justified for us to go in?

F'ing love this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p4TCloFwJs&feature=related

Having this photo on his FBI profile (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/usama-bin-laden) is a relief:

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Jmf, just because the guy used a synonym is no reason to dismiss his criticism. Since Osama has never been a sovereign or held political power, he was never a tyrant, dictator, autocrat, despot, etc.

so, the phrase "tyranny of terrorism" is a misnomer? 

I thought this is now appropriate, and somewhat prophetic:

http://www.hodain.net/amuse/diplomacy7x5.html

An oldie, but a goody.

Angela Merkel is now receiving some flak from her own party for publicly expressing "joy" over Bin Laden's death.  The criticism follows the line of the Vatican's recent statement: It's un-Christian to feel joy over the death of another person.

Sometimes I think they look for things to get upset about here.

Apparently, Shepard Smith on Faux News is calling the entire operation that killed Usama Bin Laden illegal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/04/shep-smith-bin-laden-illegal_n_857356.html?ref=fb&src=sp

Even if it was, so what?

I agree with you, Gramps, but I was just bringing up that Faux News is being douches again.

He's grown on me.  I didn't like him at first.  Him or Cooper Anderson.   They represent a new type of reporter.  Touchy-feely.  Walking around in t-shirts and jeans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina feigning empathy with the underclasses.  But that's what the public wants.  And FNC and CNN really have one goal, right?  They're businesses, and like any business, they want to profit.   I can respect that.  And if you watch these Shepard types they're not so bad, after all.  You almost believe they care about people.  Who needs objectivity?

Now, as for this clip, don't misrepresent him.  He merely asked Catherine Herridge whether any reporting is focusing on the fact that this operation was illegal.  He talked about competing narratives.  Here, he's playing the newsman's newsman.  Like Jim Pinkerton on Fox News Watch, sort of, but he's also talking about what officials are saying.  (Incidentally, Herridge took the interview in an interesting direction.  She said it was an excellent question, but she hadn't heard anything about that yet, then she segueways into how the terrorists, Muhammed, Patek, Osama, etc., were all hiding in or near major urban centers.  In plain sight.  So this is troubling.  It speaks to the real US-Pakistan relationship.  "It undercuts the narrative that Pakistan has been providing strong intelligence."  No kidding?  You almost want to laugh.  It's not exactly news to say that we shouldn't trust the Pakis.  No offense, but really, Obama knows all this.  And so it gets reported.)  But the legality question was perfectly legit.  Smith simply wanted to know about whether any officials or news reporters were doing that angle.  It was a good interview.  Not the touch-feely Shepard Smith you usually get.  Here, he was the hard-hitting reporter asking the good questions.

"Osama's family gave me two rabbits as a present, says 12-year-old neighbour"

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23946299-osamas-family-gave-me-two-rabbits-as-a-present-says-12-year-old-neighbour.do


Question:  If this kid and presumably other locals knew OBL was there for half a decade...how long has the Pakistani government, or elements thereof, known about it?

Technically, he's right.  It did break International Law.  But it needed to be done since Pakistan wasn't acting.

Oh come on, FOX wasn't even the first to bring this up, and they won't be the last.

I know that, Inks.  What I'm trying to get at, is FOX will do or say anything to jump on any bandwagon that somehow discredits President Obama or the Democrats, even it's something they themselves would have done.

Since when did you use the word "douches"?  You're making the baby Jesus cry man.

Did Shep say he wouldn't have done it?  I'm acknowledging that it may have broken International Law, but I'm saying, "Screw international law."  That doesn't change whether or not it's legal.

It is a metaphor, under which terror itself is the tyrant, not any particular terrorist.  I may be wrong, but I doubt Rumsfeld (the apparent originator of that particular phrase) ever called Osama a tyrant or dictator.