Talk Elections

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/world/middleeast/voting-in-egypt-shows-mandate-for-islamists.html?_r=2&hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/world/middleeast/voting-in-egypt-shows-mandate-for-islamists.html?_r=2&hp)

"Although this week’s voting took place in only a third of Egypt’s provinces, they included some of the nation’s most liberal precincts — like Cairo, Port Said and the Red Sea coast — suggesting that the Islamist wave is likely to grow stronger as the voting moves into more conservative rural areas in the coming months"

See, this is exactly how we feel when the jmfcsts keep carrying elections in the USA, jmfcst.

No mention of turnout or anything, which is irritating.

Also could not help but laugh at this:


In the context of the Copts. No, that's not true.

That was to be expected. After Tunisia there was really no hope Egypt could escape.

Let's still hope the Arab world will eventually experience a gradual and not too conflictful secularization framed by democratic institutions. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but it's worth hoping.

Sure, after you become a Ron Paul supporter.

It's not clear whether this will work in Egypt, but at least in Tunisia, it's pretty much guaranteed that at some point the Islamists will govern in an unpopular way and lose an election. Especially since, if you break out the seat totals, the secular parties got 86 seats total to Ennahda's 90 total (with a fair number of seats going to parties which don't obviously identify one way or another, and no parties really to Ennahda's right).

Edit: Those numbers are slightly off, were from when some of the Aridha Chaabia lists were still disqualified. Close enough, though.

The difference is that in Tunisia the Islamists have to form a coalition government with a social-liberal party.

A system in which the liberal party keeps the Islamists in check is preferable to a system in which the army keeps the Islamists in check.

Situation in Morocco is similar to Tunisia's btw, except there also the monarchy in addition to the secular parties with thom the Islamists have to govern now.

Are you kidding?  The Islamic Party will get rid of that liberal party as soon as they get into power.  They'll either be tortured in a dungeon or living in exile in Paris by the end of 2012.

Yeah, sure, whatever...

the difference being the jmfcsts don’t want to kill the opebos, they just want you to bathe and stop mooching off of them.

Might be true in Egypt, as well, as I don't think the Salafis and Muslim Brotherhood are fond of one another.

Also, given the fragmentation of the secular parties, I doubt Ennahda actually has to form a coalition with any of them. They could definitely run an ad hoc minority government. (Also, hesitant to call them all liberal, as the secular parties include things like the socialists and communists as well as the liberals, moderates and social democrats.)

I'm not following the Egyptian election that closely: but if MB voted, and the Westernized liberals boycotted, why the surprise in results?

Nobody in Tunisia wants a monolithic minority government which would be naturally unstable. It's exactly what a country exiting from dictatorship needs now.

Well, I was specifically referring to the Congress for the Republic which has become the second-largest party, and together with Ennahda they've got a majority.

Also, last thing I heard was that Ennahda gets the premiership, and the Congress for the Republic the presidency in the new government.

There's a difference between the liberal Islamists and coneservative Islamists. Libya, for instance, is an extremely pro-American example.

They won't get there without a proper evolution this may be just a step of.

I wouldn't be concerned about Islamists in Tunisia. First of all, it't very unlikely they can do much on their own. Second of all, when compared to, let's say, Muslim Brotherhoods they're a bunch of liberals ;)

It's good that the popular will is finally being expressed.

The hypocrisy of this forum jumping down peoples' throats every time they suggest democracy isn't the greatest thing ever and then complaining when the Egyptians elect the party that best represents their views is disgusting.

At least I am consistent in not being a fan of democracy and being displeased by this result.

This is the Egypt that 30 years of Mubarak rule created. If he ever tried to turn Egypt from political Islamism, he clearly failed with his brittle regime. The MB has the hearts and minds. What does that say about Mubarak?

I don't think anybody has said either of those things, much less the same person...so uhhh...cite?