Talk Elections

What are the similarities and differences between these two political philosophies?

Quite simple.

I prefer liberalism in the American sense, but I don't care for either very much. Libertarianism disgusts me ideologically while liberalism is only mildly irritating. As for their similarities and differences, that's pretty self-evident...

Liberalism is one of the most important ideologies in the 'West' and has played a big part in shaping it, but is tricky to define even in general terms because it collapsed as a political movement nearly a hundred years ago. Libertarianism is delusional wank, about as intellectually respectable as Trotskyism and without the latter's interesting pedigree.

Thank God for this thread...it had been at least two days since liberals got to tell each other what libertarians were like.

Libertarian is a pretty new term compared to Liberal.

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=libertarian%2C+liberal&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=5&smoothing=3

I wonder what the difference was 100 years ago in America. ''Liberal'' only became a dirty word since Reagan, correct? In 1910, who was a ''liberal'' and who was a ''libertarian''?

Both these ideologies' meaning differs between Europe and USA. That said, Liberalism has been, by far, a more important ideological current. It has shaped the societies of developed countries to a considerable extent.

Libertarian originally meant anarchist, and it still does in much of Europe I think.

Of course, "anarchist" originally meant libertarian (as the term would imply, and therefore what most Americans still think of when they hear the word), not hyper-statism, so there you go.

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Don't cry little guy, there will be a better thread in a couple of days.

Define "liberal." 

Oh wow. I thought I was being easy on you! Surely even dead0man can take down my grade school attack with a middle school rebuttal, I thought to myself. But he resorts to "I know what you are but what am I," a pre-school classic.

I'll try to keep this in mind and just say you have cooties next time!

I know not to worry about cooties man, I've had my shots.

Never heard anyone in Europe - or anywhere else - define anarchism as hyperstatism.

Liberalism for me if by liberalism we mean an ideology intended to optimize actionable individual autonomy through state enforcement of social rights and by libertarianism we mean an ideology intended to maximize the potential for individual autonomy through the abolition of state.

It depends on which type of liberalism you're referring to also. Are we talking 21st century Democrats or the founding fathers?

I prefer small state-Libertarianism to "progressive" social Liberalism. But I prefer economically center right "Conservative Liberalism" a la Douglas Carlswell MP to both of them.

Classical liberalism = libertarianism.  Modem liberals (and "conservatives") in America are hypocrites, arguing for less government but increasing it every chance they get when no one's looking

Sounds like the best description.

From Europe, American liberalism is probably what we would call social-liberalism, and libertarianism is either European liberalism or something a bit more to the right of it.

I would probably identify with being social-liberal, wouldn’t mind being called (European) liberal, and would almost be offended to be called libertarian. :P

It was an attempt to narrow the gap between the rich and poor with socialism, but they should have put an exempt at the end of the yr from the fine for people that are far from being well off, otherwise it is hurting the same people it is trying to help by imposing a 700$ fine.  If the poor needs the refund, and it is due to them, the gov't will attempt to collect on it from their fine.

I find both to be excellent philosophies that do not have to duel with one another. The dedication of both philosophies to free markets, free trade, free speech and civil liberties is well documented and work well together. That is if we are speaking of classical liberalism in the vein of Smith, Rivera and Mill and not "modern liberalism" as espoused by FDR, Robert Reich and Ed Schultz.

Neither. The 19th century was more libertarian than now, yet due to cultural decay combined with multiple long wars to justify larger and larger states we ended up with our current model of social democracy being the dominant ideological current. Be glad that it wasn't worse. After all, imagine if it had been national socialism or communism that won out in the 20th century.

Trying to implement libertarianism at this point wouldn't work. If you'd like a polity more libertarian in practice than current western nations, be prepared to favor reactionary notions such as limiting or abolishing the universal franchise.

Liberalism if I had to choose. I like Libertarianism to an extent but goes way too far on some issues.

Libertarianism=dogmatic market liberalism.

They're both good ideas, but I think Liberalism is better.  The idea that they both share  is that its the state's job to serve the people and not the people's job to glorify the state.

Liberalism -as an anecdote, I especially like Arlington County's snow removal ordinance (http://www.arlingtonva.us/departments/Communications/PressReleases/page77111.aspx), passed in the aftermath of the 2009-2010 winter.

Is there any equivalent in libertarian-oriented states like New Hampshire?

>implying minarchism isn't outdated liberalism.