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Election Archive => 2012 Elections => Topic started by: Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it. on February 15, 2012, 01:10:03 PM



Title: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it. on February 15, 2012, 01:10:03 PM
?(:


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: King on February 15, 2012, 01:14:21 PM
The Obama years.

All of those options didn't have "years" to remind people of and neither does he.  Only dull hack commentators compare current Presidents to past Presidents.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: opebo on February 15, 2012, 01:38:51 PM
Well its a depression, so none of those others.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: GLPman on February 15, 2012, 02:16:48 PM
Well its a depression, so none of those others.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on February 15, 2012, 04:47:02 PM
The Carter years.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: pbrower2a on February 15, 2012, 04:55:11 PM
Well its a depression, so none of those others.

Carter?    Far too much legislative activity for that parallel.
Reagan?  At most as a mirror image.
the elder Bush? Foreign policy OK, if not as showy... but he is definitely not the afterglow of his predecessor.
Clinton? Slick, similar electoral results, but with a much different constituency.
Dubya? Fewer cheap gestures, much more integrity, far more respect for procedures and legal niceties, undid much harm of Dubya.

One can easily rule out  Ford, Nixon, and LBJ. Kennedy requires a great personal tragedy. Too much political savvy to be Eisenhower (really a fine President), and he would like a rerun of the 1948 election in  2012.

Most Presidents seem to make impossible any repeat act for several decades.  

So far the closest analogy is to the first four of FDR -- at least if one goes by the generational-cycle theory of Howe and Strauss. Both took over at or near the end of nasty meltdowns of the US economy. An odd parallel is an assumption that both Presidents endured misguided and WRONG assaults on their alleged religious heritage -- as in "Franklin D. Rosenfeld" and putting an emphasis on the President's middle name.

Is he up to the standard of FDR? More like Teddy Roosevelt -- and I think that he would be satisfied with such a comparison. Nobody wants WWIII.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Oakvale on February 15, 2012, 04:59:52 PM

How? ???

e: As for my answer, King is right.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: NHI on February 15, 2012, 05:08:22 PM
The Carter Years.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Negusa Nagast 🚀 on February 15, 2012, 05:25:29 PM

Oh, I must not have noticed the rampant inflation, foreign policy disasters, and rapidly rising unemployment of the Obama administration...

I know some of you really wish Obama was Carter. But wishing it doesn't make it true.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: King on February 15, 2012, 05:26:22 PM

Sanchez has a deeply rooted and emotional memory of life 20 years prior to his birth.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Oakvale on February 15, 2012, 05:37:03 PM
The thing is while I get the Obama = Carter meme is popular since that was the last Democratic President who was an abject failure, there really aren't much points of comparison at all. The characteristics of the Carter administration (in popular perception) were rising unemployment, a disastrous foreign policy, out of control inflation and a complete lack of legislative accomplishment. How do any of those match up with the current incumbent? ???


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: cinyc on February 15, 2012, 06:06:16 PM
The thing is while I get the Obama = Carter meme is popular since that was the last Democratic President who was an abject failure, there really aren't much points of comparison at all. The characteristics of the Carter administration (in popular perception) were rising unemployment, a disastrous foreign policy, out of control inflation and a complete lack of legislative accomplishment. How do any of those match up with the current incumbent? ???

There are plenty of Carter parallels.  High unemployment.  High gas prices.  An "America follows" anti-exceptionalist foreign policy.  A gridlocked Congress leading to few legislative accomplishments in his last few years.

Carter had his policy successes, too, including the Camp David accords and creation of the Department of Energy.  To say that there was a complete lack of Carter legislative accomplishment isn't true.  The economy and foreign policy sunk Carter.  Republicans hope Obama will meet the same fate for much the same reasons.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY on February 15, 2012, 06:18:02 PM
But even Republicans have to admit that Obama's done a pretty good job on foreign policy.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on February 15, 2012, 06:30:42 PM
But even Republicans have to admit that Obama's done a pretty good job on foreign policy.

Because the only way to stop Bush's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are to invade Iran and Libya, right? Not to mention his unconstitutional assassination of Anwar Al Awaki.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY on February 15, 2012, 06:35:59 PM
But even Republicans have to admit that Obama's done a pretty good job on foreign policy.

Because the only way to stop Bush's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are to invade Iran and Libya, right? Not to mention his unconstitutional assassination of Anwar Al Awaki.
And by 'invading Iran and Libya' you mean 'sanctioning Iran and overthrowing Qaddafi', right?


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Queen Mum Inks.LWC on February 15, 2012, 06:38:44 PM
Well its a depression, so none of those others.

Recession... I wouldn't classify it as a depression.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Oakvale on February 15, 2012, 06:40:37 PM
But even Republicans have to admit that Obama's done a pretty good job on foreign policy.

Because the only way to stop Bush's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are to invade Iran and Libya, right? Not to mention his unconstitutional assassination of Anwar Al Awaki.
And by 'invading Iran and Libya' you mean 'sanctioning Iran and overthrowing Qaddafi', right?

More evidence that putting Sanchez on ignore was the wisest decision I've made during my time on this forum.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: King on February 15, 2012, 06:54:38 PM
You can compare any President to any President.  It's ridiculously easy to do.  

For example, Walter Mondale's attack ads on Ronald Reagan (http://www.livingroomcandidate.org/commercials/1984):

Ticket: The President's health plan is CUTTING MEDICARE!

Rollercoaster: Record Budget Deficits!

Limo: Corporate Bailouts!  Wall-Street Connections!

House: National Debt 18,000/per person!  Cut Spending!

Loopholes: Corporations Not Paying Taxes!

Orbiting: Dangerous Nuclear Arms Policy!!!!111

Failure: WHAT WERE WE DOING IN LIBYA NICARAGUA?

Table: It's been four years and still no peace with the Soviets Iranians.  Tisk, tisk.

Fighter:  The pollsters say the President's won, but don't give up.  Santorum, er, Mondale is The Fighter.

Arms Control: DID WE MENTION DANGEROUS NUCLEAR ARMS POLICY?!?!?

()

[/thread]




Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: cavalcade on February 15, 2012, 07:15:33 PM
Massive deficits designed to stimulate the economy- even when the economy is, in fact, growing- stemming from tax cuts and spending increases.

New federal program that will increase healthcare spending (well, in Obama's case it is "paid for" with slower than projected growth in Medicare spending, because the next President will totally figure out how to do that).

Those are two of the three major policies/accomplishments/legacies of the Obama administration (bin Laden- almost entirely symbolic but still significant and not really having an equivalent- being the third). 

So, Dubya.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: I'm JewCon in name only. on February 15, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Well its a depression, so none of those others.

Carter?    Far too much legislative activity for that parallel.
Reagan?  At most as a mirror image.
the elder Bush? Foreign policy OK, if not as showy... but he is definitely not the afterglow of his predecessor.
Clinton? Slick, similar electoral results, but with a much different constituency.
Dubya? Fewer cheap gestures, much more integrity, far more respect for procedures and legal niceties, undid much harm of Dubya.

One can easily rule out  Ford, Nixon, and LBJ. Kennedy requires a great personal tragedy. Too much political savvy to be Eisenhower (really a fine President), and he would like a rerun of the 1948 election in  2012.

Most Presidents seem to make impossible any repeat act for several decades.  

So far the closest analogy is to the first four of FDR -- at least if one goes by the generational-cycle theory of Howe and Strauss. Both took over at or near the end of nasty meltdowns of the US economy. An odd parallel is an assumption that both Presidents endured misguided and WRONG assaults on their alleged religious heritage -- as in "Franklin D. Rosenfeld" and putting an emphasis on the President's middle name.

Is he up to the standard of FDR? More like Teddy Roosevelt -- and I think that he would be satisfied with such a comparison. Nobody wants WWIII.


wut....the...feck?

What from the Bush adminstration did Obama undo?


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: CLARENCE 2015! on February 15, 2012, 07:41:57 PM
Frankly the Clinton years- a President most people like but less people agree with


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Paul Kemp on February 15, 2012, 07:47:57 PM
But even Republicans have to admit that Obama's done a pretty good job on foreign policy.

Because the only way to stop Bush's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are to invade Iran and Libya, right? Not to mention his unconstitutional assassination of Anwar Al Awaki.

Do you know what "invade" means?


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: opebo on February 15, 2012, 08:02:38 PM
Well its a depression, so none of those others.

Recession... I wouldn't classify it as a depression.

It isn't quite as severe as the famous one with capital 'D', but it is very like a debt-deflation depression, which is completely different from the almost unbelievably mild in-the-Keynesian-context recessions we got used to for 60+ years.



Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Wisconsin+17 on February 15, 2012, 08:10:02 PM
Reminds me of the Hoover years.

I think the theme song of the administration should be Glenn Miller's "Those were the days".


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: exopolitician on February 15, 2012, 08:11:56 PM
The Clinton Years, but so far this election feels like 2004.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: opebo on February 15, 2012, 08:16:10 PM
Reminds me of the Hoover years.

I think the theme song of the administration should be Glenn Miller's "Those were the days".

Well, the issue is confused by the fact that we have no Left in american politics to turn to to cure the Right-caused depression - we did then apparently, after a fashion.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: courts on February 15, 2012, 08:26:13 PM


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Wisconsin+17 on February 15, 2012, 08:29:13 PM
Quote
Well, the issue is confused by the fact that we have no Left in american politics to turn to to cure the Right-caused depression - we did then apparently, after a fashion.

Debt is now 100 percent of the US GDP - guess what - if unemployment bounces up again (it's back up above 9 again), the Democrat party is finished for a generation.

I had a great job in the Bush years. Then the BO years rolled around - and they have stank up the joint. Gas is spiking again - the money that I do have in my pocket is worth less, and I still don't have as good of a job as I had in the Bush era.

Like the good man said - am I better now than I was 4 years ago? Hell no.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Bacon King on February 15, 2012, 08:39:31 PM
The thing is while I get the Obama = Carter meme is popular since that was the last Democratic President who was an abject failure, there really aren't much points of comparison at all. The characteristics of the Carter administration (in popular perception) were rising unemployment, a disastrous foreign policy, out of control inflation and a complete lack of legislative accomplishment. How do any of those match up with the current incumbent? ???

I've been listening to conservative talk radio a fair amount lately, and one of the biggest things they tend to push about Obama (besides the "radical socialist who is destroying America" bit) is the fabrication of parallels between him and Carter. It's very widespread.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Wisconsin+17 on February 15, 2012, 09:05:52 PM
True - He's more like Woodrow Wilson.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Sasquatch on February 15, 2012, 09:13:57 PM
The Obama years feel nothing like 1990's. If anything they feel like a continuation of the George W. Bush years.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Yank2133 on February 15, 2012, 09:22:22 PM

How?

They are nothing alike.



Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Rules for me, but not for thee on February 15, 2012, 09:29:40 PM
The Carter Years are the closest.  Obama was a bit more successful with foreign intervention (he got Osama, finally) but still didn't live up to closing Gitmo or pulling out of Afghanistan.  Oh, and there's the whole spying on and detaining Americans things where he's no different from Bush.

The economy repaired itself into the Reagan administration - since interest rates were raised to compensate for printing money.  Instead, now we're just devaluing our currency and the world's getting ready to dump the USD as the world reserve currency.  Then, sh**t will really hit the fan. 

Some key differences.  And now what we need is another Thomas Jefferson or Andrew Jackson. 



Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: King on February 15, 2012, 09:59:34 PM
Guys, I ended this thread.  Why is it still going on?


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: TheGlobalizer on February 15, 2012, 10:09:26 PM
Carter malaise + Bush profligacy

And I see nothing noteworthy about Obama's foreign policy beyond lip service and being the western world's token black.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Beet on February 15, 2012, 10:17:44 PM
The economy repaired itself into the Reagan administration - since interest rates were raised to compensate for printing money.

No- in the 1980s, we started creating money by debt rather than by printing. 90% of the money in the world is created this way. But it is less stable than the other way. The negative effects can take decades to materialize, whereas if printing is excessive, the negative effects show up right away. In the past few years, we largely paused creating money by debt, and we printed a small amount to cushion the blow initially. But this is limited.

By the way, some $7 trillion of what the US has printed has been soaked up in the form of reserves. The US is in a unique position here, and the dollar cannot be compared to a normal currency. The Fed is in a way Central Banker to the world, Central Bank of the Central Banks. Just look at the way the rest of them run to the Fed for swaps.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: I'm JewCon in name only. on February 15, 2012, 10:19:32 PM
Quote
Well, the issue is confused by the fact that we have no Left in american politics to turn to to cure the Right-caused depression - we did then apparently, after a fashion.

Debt is now 100 percent of the US GDP - guess what - if unemployment bounces up again (it's back up above 9 again), the Democrat party is finished for a generation.

I had a great job in the Bush years. Then the BO years rolled around - and they have stank up the joint. Gas is spiking again - the money that I do have in my pocket is worth less, and I still don't have as good of a job as I had in the Bush era.

Like the good man said - am I better now than I was 4 years ago? Hell no.

The ridiculousness, and historical ignorance of this statement is really astounding. If the GOP was able to recover from the Great Depression, how the hell would this economy devastate the democrats for a generation?

* Democratic, not Democrat.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Wisconsin+17 on February 15, 2012, 11:01:27 PM
Quote
How?

They are nothing alike.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/obama_and_wilson.html


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Wisconsin+17 on February 15, 2012, 11:02:53 PM
Quote
The ridiculousness, and historical ignorance of this statement is really astounding. If the GOP was able to recover from the Great Depression, how the hell would this economy devastate the democrats for a generation?

1932-1952 = 20 years.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Badger on February 15, 2012, 11:09:54 PM
Quote
How?

They are nothing alike.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/obama_and_wilson.html

That is the greatest article of fail I've read since.....ever.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Oakvale on February 15, 2012, 11:31:41 PM
The bizarre obsession with Woodrow Wilson is one of the most entertaining features of the freak show that is the populist American Right. I assume Glenn Beck is responsible.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Yank2133 on February 15, 2012, 11:33:18 PM
Quote
How?

They are nothing alike.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/obama_and_wilson.html

There is so much fail in that article I don't know where to begin.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Yank2133 on February 15, 2012, 11:36:10 PM
Quote
Well, the issue is confused by the fact that we have no Left in american politics to turn to to cure the Right-caused depression - we did then apparently, after a fashion.

Debt is now 100 percent of the US GDP - guess what - if unemployment bounces up again (it's back up above 9 again), the Democrat party is finished for a generation.

I had a great job in the Bush years. Then the BO years rolled around - and they have stank up the joint. Gas is spiking again - the money that I do have in my pocket is worth less, and I still don't have as good of a job as I had in the Bush era.

Like the good man said - am I better now than I was 4 years ago? Hell no.

The ridiculousness, and historical ignorance of this statement is really astounding. If the GOP was able to recover from the Great Depression, how the hell would this economy devastate the democrats for a generation?

* Democratic, not Democrat.


Hell, the GOP took the burden of the blame just sinking the economy back in 2008......yet two years later they had a rout in the mid-terms.  It is really stupid to suggest the Democrats could be out of power for a generation especially given the demographics are heavily in their favor.

If any party is on it's way to irrelevance it is the GOP not the Democrats.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Oakvale on February 15, 2012, 11:37:55 PM
Having read as much as I could stomach of that trainwreck of an article I'm convinced the solution to all that ails America is rounding up the publishers and readers of the American Thinker and putting them in isolated prison camps in Alaska far away from intelligent life.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Wisconsin+17 on February 15, 2012, 11:44:27 PM
Quote
Hell, the GOP took the burden of the blame just sinking the economy back in 2008......yet two year later they had a rout in the mid-terms.

Last I checked it was Pelosi who was Speaker back in 2008.

Quote
 It really stupid to suggest the Democrats could be out of power for a generation

Put it this way- the workforce as a percentage of the population is just 1.5 percent higher than in 1955. The workforce as a percentage of the population has declined all the way back to 1983.

So not only has Obama successfully doubled the US debt, he's also successfully pared back most of the gains over the last 20 years.

Sure unemployment is down - but those who are not working continues to increase. The greatest president since WW2 at putting women in kitchens having children is Barack Obama. He's also the greatest president at putting black men and women out of work.

Funny that?

Quote
especially given the demographics are heavily their favor.

Maybe back in 2008. He's lost 15 points among young people who have born the brunt of his policies which are designed to push marginal workers out of the workforce. These folks aren't going to long forget who was in power when they were struggling.

Quote
If any party is on it's way to irrelevance it is the GOP not the Democrats.

Hey Barack had it all. Supermajorities in Congress and the Senate. A blank check to fix the economy. A blank check to do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted.

And what has he done? If he were able to convert 100 percent of what he spent into the economy, we'd be seeing about 7 percent growth. Instead, we've seen 1, maybe a half percent? Obama had a free ride and a free lunch, and he even managed to screw it up. Now we have all the credit card debt coming due, and that will have to be paid off before anything can be done to start the recovery.

It will take about 20-30 years to pay off what took Obama two years to rack up.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P! on February 15, 2012, 11:48:12 PM
The (early) Hoover years


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Yank2133 on February 15, 2012, 11:52:28 PM
Quote
Hell, the GOP took the burden of the blame just sinking the economy back in 2008......yet two year later they had a rout in the mid-terms.

Last I checked it was Pelosi who was Speaker back in 2008.

Quote
 It really stupid to suggest the Democrats could be out of power for a generation

Put it this way- the workforce as a percentage of the population is just 1.5 percent higher than in 1955. The workforce as a percentage of the population has declined all the way back to 1983.

So not only has Obama successfully doubled the US debt, he's also successfully pared back most of the gains over the last 20 years.

Sure unemployment is down - but those who are not working continues to increase. The greatest president since WW2 at putting women in kitchens having children is Barack Obama. He's also the greatest president at putting black men and women out of work.

Funny that?

Quote
especially given the demographics are heavily their favor.

Maybe back in 2008. He's lost 15 points among young people who have born the brunt of his policies which are designed to push marginal workers out of the workforce. These folks aren't going to long forget who was in power when they were struggling.

If any party is on it's way to irrelevance it is the GOP not the Democrats.

1. Who was President in 2008, it sure as hell wasn't Bill Clinton. Look at polling, Bush is the one who gets the burnt of the blame for the economic collapse which had a negative effect on his party and John McCain back 2008. Even if you look at polling today, people still hold Bush responsible for the economic problems they face.

2. How does that explain how the Democrats could be out of power for a generation? Are black people suddenly going to start voting GOP, women as well. Look at the data and stop being delusional. The party is better set for the future then the GOP, whom's coliation may be on it's last legs.

3. Once again, look at the data. Demographics are heavily favoring the Democrats. GOP strong holds like Texas could be swing states by 2020 due to demographic changes and that is only example.



Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Wisconsin+17 on February 16, 2012, 12:23:40 AM
Quote
1. Who was President in 2008, it sure as hell wasn't Bill Clinton.

Isn't it congress that controls spending? Congress has had the reins for the last 3 years of the Obama administration, each of which have seen massive deficits dwarfing the worst of the Bush years.

Quote
Look at polling, Bush is the one who gets the burnt of the blame for the economic collapse

I am. Larger landslide in '10 than in '94, btw argues just the opposite.

Quote
which had a negative effect on his party and John McCain back 2008.

John McCain had a negative effect on his own party. He, btw was leading in September.

Quote

 Even if you look at polling today, people still hold Bush responsible for the economic problems they face.

Then why did they overwhemingly vote the Republicans into the congress? See- my hypothesis explains 2010. Yours does not. People were not happy with the Pelosi congress and what they had done since 2006, so they ousted them.

Quote
2. How does that explain how the Democrats could be out of power for a generation?

People are already waking up to the fiscal catastrophe that awaits the US, which Obama and his policies have greatly exacerbated. His recent budget does nothing to alleviate their concerns.

Massive, massive tax increases. Gutting the military. Massive increases in domestic expeditures, fairy-land economic and tax forecasts. It's an unmitigated disaster.

Quote
Are black people suddenly going to start voting GOP, women as well.

Did you see the numbers for Cain? I sure did. Cain was winning in Illinois, and he was getting lots of minorities out to vote for him.

The Republicans might not get a majority of them - but they don't need a majority of them, especially if the much vilified white men all come out to turf Obama.

Quote
Look at the data and stop being delusional.

I am. I'm seeing 15 point swings away from Obama. I'm seeing Obama struggle to break 50 percent as an incumbant against all manner of republican challengers - as a sitting president.

That - speaks volumes. The last time we had an incumbant this weak was probably Carter in '80 for the historical parallels.

Quote
The party is better set for the future then the GOP, whom's coliation may be on it's last legs.

Given that the US had their very first ever debt downgrade under the Obama administration - it's not the GOP policies that are the problem. People are going to look at their pocketbook, look at the future for themselves and their children. They are going to look at the party that will help them out. If the state itself is going to fall apart than every single one of the Democrat policies is suddenly null and void.

I suppose we could go back to the 75 percent effective tax rate under Kennedy - but wouldn't that speak volumes as to how far we have fallen?

Quote
3. Once again, look at the data. Demographics are heavily favoring the Democrats. GOP strong holds like Texas could be swing states by 2020 due to demographic changes and that is only example.

I work in a 50 percent hispanic district. Do you really want to know how well Obama is thought of here? People are really hurting and they are not happy right now. I'm not talking old people, I'm talking folks closer to my age - folks trying to get out in the world and make a job. Folks that are having to move back in with their parents because they can't afford a place of their own. Who if they have a job are fighting to hang onto the hours that they do get.

That's the reality of the way things are now and have been for awhile now. Obama hasn't brought about prosperity - he's made the lives of individual Americans, particularly young Americans much harder.

Demographics are working against Democrats btw - Bush states in 2000 are growing compared with Gore states. All the Gore states are shrinking, and shrinking badly.

If the Republicans manage to convince folks that they are the best shot at their children finding work and prospering then the game would change would it not?


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Third Party on February 16, 2012, 01:53:37 AM
Obama and Bush are just two sides of the same Neocon coin: criminal wars abroad and attacks on dissent at home. I feel very thankful that I voted Cynthia McKinney for president in 2008 and Ralph Nader in 2004. I do not have a drop of Iraqi or Libyan blood on my hands.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: TheDeadFlagBlues on February 16, 2012, 02:08:47 AM
Having read as much as I could stomach of that trainwreck of an article I'm convinced the solution to all that ails America is rounding up the publishers and readers of the American Thinker and putting them in isolated prison camps in Alaska far away from intelligent life.

My philosophy professor routinely writes articles for it. To feel my pain check them out: http://www.americanthinker.com/ed_kaitz/ (http://www.americanthinker.com/ed_kaitz/)

He really does have an agenda against leftism, which irks me.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: pbrower2a on February 16, 2012, 02:54:21 AM
Well its a depression, so none of those others.

Carter?    Far too much legislative activity for that parallel.
Reagan?  At most as a mirror image.
the elder Bush? Foreign policy OK, if not as showy... but he is definitely not the afterglow of his predecessor.
Clinton? Slick, similar electoral results, but with a much different constituency.
Dubya? Fewer cheap gestures, much more integrity, far more respect for procedures and legal niceties, undid much harm of Dubya.

One can easily rule out  Ford, Nixon, and LBJ. Kennedy requires a great personal tragedy. Too much political savvy to be Eisenhower (really a fine President), and he would like a rerun of the 1948 election in  2012.

Most Presidents seem to make impossible any repeat act for several decades.  

So far the closest analogy is to the first four of FDR -- at least if one goes by the generational-cycle theory of Howe and Strauss. Both took over at or near the end of nasty meltdowns of the US economy. An odd parallel is an assumption that both Presidents endured misguided and WRONG assaults on their alleged religious heritage -- as in "Franklin D. Rosenfeld" and putting an emphasis on the President's middle name.

Is he up to the standard of FDR? More like Teddy Roosevelt -- and I think that he would be satisfied with such a comparison. Nobody wants WWIII.


wut....the...feck?

What from the Bush adminstration did Obama undo?

War in Iraq. Damage to international opinion of America. Relevance of Osama bin Laden. Reliance upon a corrupt speculative boom for prosperity.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: pbrower2a on February 16, 2012, 03:01:27 AM
Quote
Well, the issue is confused by the fact that we have no Left in american politics to turn to to cure the Right-caused depression - we did then apparently, after a fashion.

Debt is now 100 percent of the US GDP - guess what - if unemployment bounces up again (it's back up above 9 again), the Democrat party is finished for a generation.

I had a great job in the Bush years. Then the BO years rolled around - and they have stank up the joint. Gas is spiking again - the money that I do have in my pocket is worth less, and I still don't have as good of a job as I had in the Bush era.

Like the good man said - am I better now than I was 4 years ago? Hell no.

Debt-service costs are still manageable. Deficits are shrinking. America prospered during the late 1940s and through the 1950s despite huge debt related to World War II.

Great job? What was it? Were you part of the speculative boom? Things went well for a while. and now you can't resuscitate the speculative boom and the easy money. Maybe you thought that you would cash out at the right time but found that you couldn't. 

Easy money is more curse than blessing, fellow. We now get our economic recovery the old-fashioned way if it is to stick.   


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Chaddyr23 on February 16, 2012, 03:28:37 AM

Oh, I must not have noticed the rampant inflation, foreign policy disasters, and rapidly rising unemployment of the Obama administration...

I know some of you really wish Obama was Carter. But wishing it doesn't make it true.

Right!


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Wisconsin+17 on February 16, 2012, 03:52:14 AM
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Debt-service costs are still manageable.

The US went from having an advantageous position vs the Euro to a disadvantageous position vs France + Germany. Sure, the US has a much greater capacity to support debt and to pay it down, but it's squandering what could have been a real opportunity.

Imagine if Obama hadn't busted the bank and deficits were contained. The US would be making a killing vs the Euro as the Swiss did and are doing, especially now that they are talking of downgrading France.

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Deficits are shrinking.

Not nearly fast enough. The deficit is still double the Bush era's worst, and worse than anything you'll see in Europe. Horrible mismanagement.

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America prospered during the late 1940s and through the 1950s despite huge debt related to World War II.

True, but what they did in '46 and '47, was to cut the budget in HALF and paid it down. Straight spending cuts. That is what it will take this time to fix things. Do you see Obama proposing a 50 percent cut in government spending? I sure don't.

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Great job? What was it? Were you part of the speculative boom? Things went well for a while. and now you can't resuscitate the speculative boom and the easy money. Maybe you thought that you would cash out at the right time but found that you couldn't.

Well I was fresh out of university. I ended up paying off all my loans. I worked as an inventory manager for a small store. Something around 2x what I make now + all the OT I could possibly want. It was a great position, but I got let go in the downturn. 

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Easy money is more curse than blessing, fellow. We now get our economic recovery the old-fashioned way if it is to stick.

Only if we can stop digging the hole deeper. 


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on February 16, 2012, 03:59:13 AM
Having read as much as I could stomach of that trainwreck of an article I'm convinced the solution to all that ails America is rounding up the publishers and readers of the American Thinker and putting them in isolated prison camps in Alaska far away from intelligent life.
How do you know they're not already there?


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 16, 2012, 06:32:02 AM
Basically Clinton's first term with unemployment rate from Reagan's first term.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: m4567 on February 16, 2012, 07:08:30 AM
People see what they want to see. I think Obama is Reagan by way of Bill Clinton.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: hotpprs on February 16, 2012, 08:18:43 PM
Woodrow Wilson's era, the 1910's.
Progressive.
Anti-business.
Wilson was President during a war that dominated the decade and ended before he left office.
The US was a prosperous country with the rich gaining more and more of the wealth, and kids becoming disillusioned.
Bad foreign policy.
Imperial mindset of the President.
Maybe we will have another 10 to 20 good years of fun like the roaring 20's before things really crash like the great depression.
That would coincide with the timeframe for Social Security not being able to pay it's current promises, state pensions going bust, and the debt finally bringing the whole economy down and crashing the stock market.
Who is going to be the next Harding, Coolidge and Hoover?


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: RosettaStoned on February 16, 2012, 08:21:02 PM
 Which years do the Obama Years remind you of?


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario) on February 16, 2012, 08:27:53 PM
The way things are going in this country, it almost feels like the Buchanan years.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: pbrower2a on February 16, 2012, 08:30:35 PM
Woodrow Wilson's era, the 1910's.
Progressive.
Anti-business.
Wilson was President during a war that dominated the decade and ended before he left office.
The US was a prosperous country with the rich gaining more and more of the wealth, and kids becoming disillusioned.
Bad foreign policy.
Imperial mindset of the President.
Maybe we will have another 10 to 20 good years of fun like the roaring 20's before things really crash like the great depression.
That would coincide with the timeframe for Social Security not being able to pay it's current promises, state pensions going bust, and the debt finally bringing the whole economy down and crashing the stock market.
Who is going to be the next Harding, Coolidge and Hoover?

Dubya was -- except that he had two bungled wars for profit. The double-zero decade simply wasn't fun.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: Bandit3 the Worker on February 16, 2012, 08:49:31 PM
Reminds me of those great Carter years! Except the music's not as good, and we have Internet.


Title: Re: What years does the Obama Years remind you of?
Post by: TheGlobalizer on February 16, 2012, 08:57:56 PM
Which years do the Obama Years remind you of?

THIS.
CHANGES.
EVERYTHING.