Talk Elections

A thought that came to me and was discussed in IRC on Tuesday. We concluded the white people in Detroit are mostly either: 1-Olds who simply refuse to move out and 2-Youngs who are hipsters and/or seek cheap housing. So are there any areas in Detroit where middle aged white people actually live? And if so what are they like? I'd like to see someone do like a study on this and interview these people.

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The only middle aged white people in the D are the ones living in condos downtown.

Ray likes fishing, Caroline sings in a choir and Mike is a fan of French cinema. Mary is a bit of a recluse.

Yes, lawyers and CPA's who live in the Renaissance Tower.

There are doubtless some white prostitutes.  They like the black man's pimpin'.

You taking testosterone yet opebo?

Tip top!  But in the Big City, Mary is probably a transvestite who has a dozen black boys skulls in her refrigerator.


Not yet buddy, tried it a couple of times but no effect really, and in any case my drive still far exceeds my budget (3-4 times a week).

Ah, you youngs. I hate you!

Well, I'm getting old.. early-to-mid 40s.. I think my inevitable decline has been slightly delayed by the fact that I am spectacularly lazy.

This prompted an interesting idea - Dave's App gives you the number of white children in a particular area, by subtracting the VAP from the overall population. And - granting that even excluding the childless condo-dwellers downtown, some white demographics have larger families than others - this gives us an indirect indication of where white families with children are living in Detroit.

The recent census counts 8,427 non-Hispanic white children in Detroit; I divided the city into 10 districts each with between 800 and 900 of them. I got the following:

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- four small districts, (one of which, in teal, is just a single precinct!) abutting Dearborn. These are likely mostly Arabs.

- two districts (purple and yellow) that border Dearborn but also extend further into the historically Polish but now heavily Hispanic area in the southwest of the city. Probably a mix of Arabs, a few remaining poor Polish-Americans, and maybe a handful of Hispanics who didn't check "Hispanic".

- one district (green) at the west end of the city. The population is concentrated in the southeastern arm next to Dearborn - again almost certainly Arab, but there is a steady very small population in the heavily black western areas near Redford. I'm not sure who these people are.

- one district (red) surrounding Hamtramck - again a mix of Middle Easterners and maybe a few remaining poorer Poles.

- one large district (mauve) extending from downtown out to the east end of the city. About half the white children are downtown, and the bulk of the remainder are near Harper Woods. A few of those blocks in the east end are kind of like inner Macomb or Harper Woods - working-class but not ghettoish.

- and the big blue district for the rest of the city. The population is concentrated in the center of the district - there's some spillover from the north of Hamtramck that didn't rate its own district. There's also a small affluent white population in Palmer Woods, which is arguably the most elegant black neighborhood in the whole country.

I would've thought there'd be places somewhere like Prince George's County more "elegant" than anywhere in Detroit. Also how many of those are actual "children" and not just infant or toddlers living with single mothers (or at least young couples)?

But that got me thinking about my own neighborhood, so here are some fun stats:

Overall population:
White 51.3%
Black 19.8%
Hispanic 20.0%
Asian 3.9%
Native 1.8%
Other 3.2%

Under 18 population:
White 13.6%
Black 37.5%
Hispanic 37.9%
Asian 2.9%
Native 2.4%
Other 5.7%

Man this will be interesting to check out for other neighborhoods in Minneapolis tomorrow...

I'm thinking through all of the white people I know who live in Detroit:

One of my bosses: 28 - tends to be a bit of a partier, but pretty normal average guy.
Lawyer friend (female): 39 - involved in politics.  Pretty social.
Lawyer friend: 32 - involved in politics, but not as much as my other friend.  Somewhat quiet and reserved.
Guy involved in politics: 80s? - old guy who'll tell you all about what politics was like back in the 60s.

Off the top of my head, those are the only white people I know fairly well in Detroit.  The rest are mainly African Americans.

Just for you (though I have somewhat of a doubt that I should do this see Exodus1 verse 7-10 though I feel somewhat reassured that someone of you're stature would never be in a position to do anything of note) the stats of Borough Park (using wide boundaries)


Overall population:
White 75.0%
Black 1.1%
Hispanic 13.0%
Asian 9.7%
Native 0.1%
Other 1.1%

Under 18 population:
White 86.3%
Black 0.4%
Hispanic 7.6%
Asian 4.8%
Native 0.1%
Other 1.0%

here's to the future


just for the record
in my NY Jewish Congressional district the overall white population% is 62.5% and the under 18 white % is 61.4%


In my mostly Catholic SI + Rockway district the overall white population% 66.5% and the under 18 white % is 53.6%

Putting aside "elegance," below may be the wealthiest black neighborhood (85% black) in the United States. It is called the black Beverly Hills. It's other name is Baldwin Park. It is on a hill to the east of the 405 Fwy just south of Culver City. It's median family income is $157,000. Nearby Ladera Heights just to the west on the west facing slope of the hill is similar.

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I can't speak for Detroit, but here in Memphis, blacks with the means run for the burbs fast. Some choose the predominently black "Prince George" areas in the SE, but just as many opt to live in majority white suburban areas. They've had more than enough city life. Maybe in another generation, their kids will catch up with certain whites and see the city as sexy again. In the mean time, the result is that the whitest neighborhoods around are frequently older ones that have been white forever. These are also the neighborhoods that the GOP gerrymandered Steve Cohen out of.

Does Detroit still have residency requirements for city workers?

Do you think this is supposed to bother me? No it does not. This is more people in the world who are loved by God, and I hope they come to know Christ, just as those born into the Somali Muslim communities here and Asian Buddhist communities across the country (just as one of the pastors at my church did, she comes from a Vietnamese Buddhist family.) Because there is nothing greater! The Iranian clerical regime actually considers Christianity one of their greatest threats, because it is surging amongst the youth.

Look man I see a lot of consuming sin within you, particularly that of the heterosexist variety. I don't say that as an accusation because I'm not really any better. I too had to struggle a long long time with a lot of the anger and bitterness I see you with. But I was FREED of all of that through Jesus Christ. But I no longer see the world in the categories like you do. I get you've no doubt been yoked in legalism your whole life. It reminds me exactly like those Pharisees who kept condemning and arguing with my man. Today's sermon mentioned the part in Mark when Jesus healed a "demon-possessed" (likely actually epileptic based on the symptoms, as the pastor noted) boy, after the boy's father begged everyone else including various religious leaders who ignored him and just argued about trivial things. That law is exactly what Jesus came to bring down! And then you can realize the point of my statement. God loves the Iranians and Palestinians just as much as God loves the residents of Borough Park. Many Jews realize this too (no, you can't just exclude liberal Jews and pull up "No True Scotsman" again.) Unfortunately within BP this is largely not the case and too many there have fallen into the pit of the hatred that people like Dov Hikind and Meir Kahane promote. But that does not mean that they are not loved and can not be freed through Christ just as the people in Hamas can and the people being freed in Iran are now. Let's turn to the way of Jesus, not of Hikind or Ahmadinejad. You can do it too. Just ask God to show you your prejudices and free you of them, just as He did for me. And there will be much rejoicing!

got it you want to convert us or kill us.  How come the only part of your bible you seem to follow are the parts against jews?

How could you possibly get that I want to kill anyone from that post? And there is certainly no part of the Bible against Jews, contrasting Jesus in a positive light against Pharisees is quite different from calling for the killing of Jews that you seem to be accusing that I am supporting.

BRTD, there's nothing inherently wrong with rabbinic Judaism, and there are rabbinic Jews who don't act like NY Jew.

In practice though...well I'll say Mikado's complaints are pretty valid. Unfortunately they were mostly outlined in IRC chat and not on the forum so I can't link them so I'll have to elaborate later.


Well obviously. I don't think anyone but him is resorting to that No True Scotsman (and thus if you don't agree with him you are an anti-Semite.) As I pointed out in that other thread he's attacked more Jews than anyone else with his constant complaints about liberal Jews and NTS attacks, while the Borough Park group makes a very small percentage of Jews.

The point I'm trying to make is that advocating conversion as a means of improving the spiritual lives of people whose personality issues don't seem to stem from their specific religion is very low on my list of priorities and I think probably should be on yours as well. Then again, I'm soteriologically Rahnerian, so my desire that people should become Christians can afford to be tempered a little bit by my desire that members of non-Christian religions--and Christian religions, for that matter--should continue to exist in large numbers in the interests of, to borrow a phrase from the good people of Portland, Oregon, 'keeping humanity weird'. I think it's more useful to trawl for agnostics and apatheists than for people who already have something specifically else that they're committed to in the religious realm.

Also this is starting to belong in Religion & Philosophy.

Actually maybe more of a "NY Jew complains about liberal Jews and accuses people of being anti-Semitic" thread to move all such posts in discussions that arise when he derails them. He got something similar awhile back when he turned every election discussion into gay bashing.

You know NY Jew is in many ways a mirror image of Robert Stark (I'm shuddering now imagining a "debate" between them.)

The leading rabbis in America did that in the Weprin race and now again in the Fidler-Storbin race because that is what Judaism position is. Therefore your attack on us for following Judaism is anti semitic.  Due to you and your left wing anti god allies Orthodox Jews are now becoming 1 issue voter anyone who supports Marriage Redefinition is now blacklisted by orthodox Jews.  But you don't have to worry about that because if you ever decide to run for office where Orthodox Jews live we wont vote for you because your a anti semite.

There are almost no neighborhoods in the country that have a many charity organizations like Borough Park and your calling it fascist for things that aren't even close to true is right out of the anti semites play book.

in regards to your missionizing statement
Jews rejected your god in the past because there is only 1 God. accepting your fake god would be rejecting the real God's command and therefore we will continue do so for eternity.  What I'm confused about is how you only choose to believe the parts of your bible that advocate converting us and not Leviticus.  If you want to know God stop reading the unauthorized sequel to the bible and read the original.

What the  is this?

NY Jew, are...are you saying that the Mosaic Law is binding on Gentiles, or are you trying to convert BRTD to Judaism? Either way it's not going to work.

Also, if Orthodox Jews are becoming one-issue voters, I think that's due to Orthodox Jews.

Judaism holds that the prohibition on homosexual relations are universal.  My problem with him is that he's trying to picking out the parts of the "bible" he likes and throws out what he needs to keep all while attacking Jews for following what's officially in his bible.

Orthodox Jews are becoming one issue voters because your party is now making a new issue (that in addition to being abhorrent is something that saying a few decades ago would have rightfully put you in a mental institution) that will destroy this country. 

Many political pundits predict that with the declining white population% the Republican party is going to become extinct but if the dems keep going down the road they are they're going to push every single god fearing person in the republican party making the Republican party the majority party for a long time to come.

So opposing anti gay views is now anti Semitic? lol

no attacking jews for opposing gay views is. 

It is very hard for someone from St. Louis to imagine how something like that could occur, Tory.

Well I think orthodox Judaism is a bad religion with some terrible views, I don't think that makes me an anti Semite, but if you think it does then that's fine with me (but I have negative views about many other religions, I certainly don't single out orthodox Judaism).