Talk Elections

And I am amazed on how Romneycare never turned out to be the Achilles heel we all thought it would be.

No he actually vetoed alot of that bill which was over riden by a Democratic Congress. He's said before that he what's right for Massachusetts isn't right for the rest of the country and that the federal government shouldn't be dictating to states about healthcare. Repealing Obamacare will be on the platform instead.

Romney has also, of course, explicitly said that what was right for Massachusetts (individual health care mandate) WAS right for the rest of the country, and that Obama should implement it.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-03-05/romney-health-care/53375684/1

False.

Mitt also said Massachusetts healthcare plan was the model the President should use for the country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBVUU0bqSyI&feature=player_embedded

Good luck spinning that in November.......

But let's all remember... when it comes to the individual mandate: The 1989 Heritage plan begat the Republican health care counter-proposal to Hillarycare, then that Republican health care plan begat Romneycare, then Romneycare begat Obamacare. Republicans from 2010-2011 in a fit of lunacy believed Obamacare=socialism. But now Republicans are counter-proposing against Obamacare... by likely nominating the man who supported Romneycare. So.. with Romneycare once again as part of the proposals of the Republican Party, the Democratic Party will have to come up with a counter-proposal. And this in all likelihood will be a universal health care plan, aka Hillarycare 2.0.

So we've come full circle.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/conservative-origins-of-obamacare/ (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/conservative-origins-of-obamacare/)

"The essence of Obamacare, as of Romneycare, is a three-legged stool of regulation and subsidies: community rating requiring insurers to make the same policies available to everyone regardless of health status; an individual mandate, requiring everyone to purchase insurance, so that healthy people don’t opt out; and subsidies to keep insurance affordable for those with lower incomes.

The original Heritage plan from 1989 had all these features.

These days, Heritage strives mightily to deny the obvious; it picks at essentially minor differences between what it used to advocate and the plan Democrats actually passed, and tries to make them seem like a big deal. But this is disinformation. The essential features of the ACA — above all, the mandate — are ideas Republicans used to support."

This was fascinating, "History of the Individual Health Insurance Mandate, 1989-2010
Republican Origins of Democratic Health Care Provision":
http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182 (http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182)

No, I'm pretty sure that the GOP platform will be

(1) The federal government will repeal Obamneycare.

(2) The federal government will not prevent state governments from pursuing Obamneycare.

That has been Romney's line in the debates and outside Bachmann (and maybe Paul) it seems to have been accepted.


I've said this before and I'll say it again: at one point Romney was losing to a guy who used to run a pizza restaurant.  Romneycare was an Achilles heel.

Absolutely, yes.

It just means that Romney can't credibly attack Obamacare.

Which is going to be fatal to his chances of winning the presidency.

Romney has been as clear as anything on repealing Obamacare. You've conveniently forgotten to mention that.

Is that his position today?

He's been clear on that in 2012. In 2009 he was clearly in favor of Obama implementing Romneycare nationwide. And he's been completely unclear about the reasons for his change of heart.

He bought shares in Kerry's waffle hut?

Well I'll take Romney care over Obamacare.

Exactly what about Romneycare, enacted at the federal level, would you prefer to Obamacare?

The Supreme Court is going to shoot down the "individual mandate," so this argument is moot.

Romneycare was right for Massachusetts according to most folks who live there. It is obviously not right for every other state. Romney recognizes this now. More importantly, jobs are what matter, not healthcare. Obama's obsession with Obamacare has been a distraction from fixing the economy. Obama did not cause the Great Recession, but he has not made economic conditions better. I like Obama, but he has not helped things. This is the winning Republican argument this fall.

Well, if Romney were honest, it should be. ;-)

But I suppose he wouldn't disclose his support* before he's elected.

(* well, not exactly "support"... more of a "oh boy, I'm certainly not going to turn back everything what Obama did now").

So you're telling me that the Republicans would want to elect a president who supported an unconstitutional mandate?


So you are saying it's ok to violate the constitution provided that it's Massachusetts? The people of MA may like the policy, but that doesn't make it right. The constitution is paramount, and that means that individual liberty takes priority.

If the people themselves sell themselves into slavery, that does not make slavery right - no one can deprive themselves of their own rights, natural rights are intrinsic, not extrinsic.


Uh, what if you work in healthcare? Obamacare and the health care mandate has resulted in many layoffs.

I want a candidate who isn't 1-1 on successfully forcing people to buy healthcare.

Maybe today.....but he sure as hell wasn't in 2009.

You're going off message. Do you want to beat Obama or hand him a massive mandate?

"They’re the same ****ing bill."-Prof. Jonathan Gruber

In 1864, Democratic Presidential nominee McClellan disavowed his own party's peace platform.

You're assuming that Santorum cannot beat Obama.

Then Obamacare will also drive doctors away. This time away from our country and not just Massachusetts.

Hahaha are you for real? Where the hell are doctors gonna go? The free market healthcare paradises of Canada or the United Kingdom?

Maybe he's onto something. I mean, gave you ever actually seen a Canadian doctor? Didn't think so.

Let's bring this thread back to life.

There isn't a hell yes option.