Talk Elections

This is bullsh**t of the highest order! (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=140191.msg3243115#msg3243115)

We'll have your badge for this, mark my words!

I deleted the last page and a half in that thread... it was time for it to be done.

Why are you so obsessed with wielding your power? It's no wonder you petitioned to become a moderator for so many years.

Side effect of my puppy and kitten milkshakes.

I accept your resignation.

This is ridiculous. Get away Inks, you are clearly unable to handle your job in a sound way.

What the hell?

DISPLEASURE!

I think here we have a case of what Freud discusses in his fort/da vignette:

http://www.ncspp.org/fortda/origin.html


the element of control that Inks is able to exercise here as moderator is the way he wishes real life was.

Dear Inks,

Please go focus on your College Republicans.

Inks has cemented his permanent status in the late thread.

WTF >:O

in a few days we have to decide who will take the disobedient action of posting Absurdity Deluge Vol II.

Was just thinking this...

Why the HELL was The Deluge locked? Might as well close the Goldmine too.

The thread was nothing but flame wars etc.  It was time for it to go.

Don't give them any ideas...

Just saw Lief's thread. I'll leave my thoughts there.

Every thread on here ends up being a flame war cuz people are so defensive.

No.

In the past, I usually had sided with the mods but it has clearly gone overboard. This place has become absurdly desensitized. Who does locking said thread help? It's not like it was an actual discussion. I could see it if a "flame war" erupted in a thread discussing election results or the like. If that's the case, why not close the thread in GenDisc. about the "hoodie" incident because it's just people calling CaDan a racist, even if it may be correct.

This isn't fcuking pre-school, folks. If people make ignorant or dumb statements, they should clearly by addressed by the community. Why not? If someone doesn't like it, don't go into said thread.

christ This place used to be so much fun. Now I know why I barely frequent it any more.

Of course Mikado should resign as well. He's generally just as bad as Inks.

Inks happens.

Another option, a more "moderate" one :P, might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

I feel like he's overplaying moderator solidarity. "We need to unite because if we don't those damn anarchists will exploit our divisions and turn the forum into a massive trollfest, so even though Inks has gone a bit too far in my view I'm still gonna defend him."

Inks did run this by me beforehand via PM and I signed off on it.

That thread is now closed and CADan is now CAbanned.

Let's be honest; Mikado's just the good cop who presents a smiling face while Inks does the dirty work.

OK, I stand corrected.

It's quite unfortunate though. I don't understand what caused this shift in moderation policy, but I hope you have a clue of what you're doing. I feel honestly surprised by this recent attitude, as I though you (if not Inks, at least you) had enough experience of the FC board to understand the difference between offensive trolling and having some fun.

I sure wish I could just do away with any thread that doesn't meet my standards.

Amusingly enough, the original rationale for our pairing was that I'd be the bad cop and he'd be the good cop, but sometime over the last two years we've switched.

:'(

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

Plus, that thread had too many problems, and when you have to delete over a page of crap - it's time for the thread to just be put to rest.

Isn't occasional role switching part of every good sane cop - insane cop routine?

How are we better off with a forum that respects stupidity?

Stupidity is subjective. And the forum is supposed to encourage a civil atmosphere, not bullying.

And quoting a post in that thread was merely an expression that you believe what a person said is absurd- not bullying, in any way.

No, he's playing the loyal sidekick, praising every action of his master.

Somehow I doubt that what Dave wants this forum to be like is the sort of boring place on the internet where about half of the posts consist of whining about the moderation and the other half of people asking whether it'd be okay to post X. That's what this forum's current moderation policies seem to be heading towards, though.

If you look back at the threads from around 2004 or so, there are many 'personal attacks' and stuff that would receive infractions today. And yet pretty much every one of our veterans agrees that the quality of discussion was better back then.

When you put up in lights a post of a poster which you are characterizing as "absurd" or whatever, it certainly has the potential of hurting the feelings of the subject poster. I mean, if in a thread you said, hey Torie, your post is just absurd (!), without more, could that not be deemed a personal attack?

Whatever your views of the merits of the thread, it strikes me as certainly reasonable to deem that as one of its liabilities on its overall balance sheet. Then it is a matter of deeming just how much of import that liability is. In the end, all of this stuff involves judgment calls at the margin. From afar, one might deem the appropriate approach obvious, but inside the ring, with all the constituencies to please, Dave's expectations, the collateral damage to those from whom blood is drawn, and so forth, I suspect sometimes the answers are not all that obvious.

One has to consider now if classic forum traditions like use of words like "poors" and "dumbs" and Freedom Fighter vs. Horrible Person would be infracted as "trolling" if they started today.

()

And that won't occur in the Goldmine or "ohhh snap" threads? Give me a break.

I guess now whenever I find an ignorant or absurd post, I'll just have to put it in the Goldmine since it's OK there.

If you can't take the heat, GTFO.

A mistake, Nathan.

(Boston accent)

This whole [Inks]in' thing is just a loada' [Inks]in' GAHBAGE.

Sure.  But I don't think it "absurd," to deem a post as stupid or absurd, as of somewhat more gravity, than to characterize it as funny, or a clever towel snap. It is just a matter of degree.  But sure, you have a point. Hopefully, the way to square the circle will not be to freeze those threads too. One might wish here in other words to distinguish rather than conflate. Just a thought.

Agree about the HP thing, with which I was never comfortable when it pertains to a poster (as opposed to a public figure), but what on earth is remotely offensive about opebo's charmingly incorrect grammar?

It's not necessarily a personal attack, but an attack on the alleged absurdity in general.  Of course people are free to disagree with certain posts being quoted in that thread, but as I said, it is merely an expression of opinion.  And if the author of the comment being quoted doesn't agree that their post belongs in there, they are welcome to object to it or ignore the thread entirely.  As long as someone is not openly bashing one another, I don't see what's very damaging about quoting a post, especially since this is a board where we deem users as "horrible people" through means of showing disapproval.  And by closing that thread, people are being censored of that particular way to object to something.  The definition of "personal attack" is stretched far too much to the point that we are discouraging criticism.

Crossposted:

Some people have complained in the past that "poors" sounds condescending. I could also ask about what's remotely offensive about asking if you capitalize opebo's name too, but apparently something is becuase I was deleted and infracted for that.

Look guys, Lately I have not agreed with ANY of the moderation techniques that Inks has been using and I honestly do think he should be removed as a mod, but you guys are now resulting to personal attacks against him.


Like that picture of that nerd and stuff. Attack his lack of good judgement, and over zealous moderation not him personally. Because Inks seems like someone who one could have a good time with, or hold an intelligent conversation with.

That is all :)

That's not how it was used. In fact, people used to sometimes put up posts in the comedy goldmines that didn't actually belong there. The Deluge was made for those posts. I never considered it to be a good thing.

It was a way of pointing at someone and going "haha, look at this moron"

And it tended to be used by people to score points against their personal or political enemies instead of actually engaging in discussion.

And based on the few interventions Dave has made historically, his standards for tone and conduct are way, way beyond what anyone here can imagine.

There is also a difference between good-natured fun and mean-spirited bullying. There has been way too much of the latter on here.

There's one question still waiting for an answer:

Since deluge thread was appearently fine for months, why to lock is now without an appearent reason?

Have you even bothered to read what has been said?

I guess I will have to repeat it:

1. It hasn't been fine for months - it's been discussed for some time and been considered a problem.

2. Inks explicitly said he had to delete a lot of stuff in it because it got completely out of hand and that's what tipped the scale, the straw that broke the camel's back and what have you.

I'm not saying either of those necessarily concludes the argument or anything, but still.

Quoting a post is not bullying; this is why I think the terms "personal attack" and "bullying" are stretched way too far here.  If I were to quote a person directly and say, "You're a moron.  Go f**k yourself and shove your ridiculous opinion up your ass," then I see how that could be construed as bullying.  But members of this forum (who are actually required to say they meet a certain age requirement before joining, if I remember correctly) are generally mature enough to handle seeing one of their posts in a thread like that.  And even if something as harmless as that is too bothersome, they don't have to look at the thread at all if they wish.  And speaking just from personal experience, I have had a post of mine put in that thread before by someone who I generally get along with here; they did not do it as a way of engaging in "mean-spirited bullying."

I don't think I claimed that every post there was. But it very often was. It's bullying because of the pile-on effect. And because you're not allowed to defend yourself in threads like that. (If you do you will be met by comments such as "good thing you're posting directly into this thread now, haha")

You don't think telling a poster that he should post directly into a thread devoted to bad and stupid posts constitutes bullying or a personal attack? Because I do.

It's basically a thread devoted to public shaming. Look at this guy and his idiocy. It's not mature and it encourages a poor attitude to other posters.

Well, frankly, you don't have to defend yourself in Deluge thread itself; you can do it in the thread that the post was made in.  Personal attacks have occurred on this board, but I don't see why that means an entire thread has to be locked, especially since most of these cases involved trolls simply getting a reaction for the things they say.  If a certain user persistently attacks another user personally, they should be dealt with on an individual basis.

It was a thread devoted to public expression of disagreement, not very different in the way that FF/HP threads are devoted to public expression of approval/disapproval of a certain user.  Now, I'm not saying that FF/HP threads should be banned, too- as that would be equally ridiculous- but they both serve the same purpose.  As this is a political board, such should be expected.  People who don't like the way others respond to their comments have the option to ignore posts a certain user makes, not read threads like the Deluge, or simply log off.

...eh? I haven't posted in this thread...

Gustaf engages in the type of "bullying" he's decrying here against me and opebo all the time.

Given Gustaf's habitual extreme condescension, it's rather odd that he's complaining.

I've always been supportive of you, Inks, but this was not a good decision.

Boo!

Inks' real name is Nathan.

That's the second time you've done that.........INKS' name is Nathan........now stop

I wasn't aware of that. No need to be a jerk about it.

Yeah Gramps. The guy's username is friggin' Nathan!

I'll be more clear about it in the future :P

Resign!

It's become clear in the past 24 hours that Inks has lost the confidence of the majority of active posters here. He should resign immediately before this situation escalates.

I'm just going to say, I have a strong feeling that posts that would normally be posted in the Deluge are just going to get posted in the Institute.  If that thread gets locked as well, I will abstain from posting in either the Forum Community or Off-topic forums.  I encourage others to do the same.

Inks is a joke mod. If only there were humor involved.

Who said it was incorrect?  Besides, we moderators have enough to do without becoming grammar Nazis.

You, of all people, are accusing me of extreme condescension? And people used to think you had no sense of humour.

1. I never claimed to be perfect. I'm sure I made mistakes in my posting.

2. I do know that I generally avoid posting "haha" posts making fun of other posters or starting threads devoted to attacking them. To me there has always been a big difference between things said in the heat of an argument within a thread on some topic and going out of one's way to attack someone.

3. People who are rude, mean and offensive lose my respect. I won't tip-toe around posters who are complete jerks. Most of my "condescension" comes out against people who are being condescending themselves while at the same time having no idea what they're talking about. I have not acted condescendingly towards people who are merely a bit daft (which is something a lot of posters on here engage in and is what is problematic).

4. I think personal attacks should generally be backed up by evidence (I try to do that myself). So, Xahar give me some examples of this habitual, extreme condescension.

I know that the self-admitted lazy (see Inks's explanation for locking the thread) and fascist mods will take this down, but it's time for me to make a sacrifice for Team Freedom.

I made a new Deluge topic which immediately gave me 10 infraction points. The justification was "other reason".

:'(  K.     (and Nathan the poster not Inks, sorry bro)