Talk Elections

General Discussion => Religion & Philosophy => Topic started by: they don't love you like i love you on April 03, 2012, 11:40:36 PM



Title: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 03, 2012, 11:40:36 PM
I vote for option 3 of course.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: dead0man on April 03, 2012, 11:58:17 PM
Where is the "whatever the hell they want to wear" option?  Or I guess that should be the "whatever their congregation expects them to wear since they are paying his/her mortgage" option.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 04, 2012, 12:09:02 AM
I accidentally voted for option 3 but option 1 is obviously my actual answer.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: useful idiot on April 04, 2012, 07:00:09 AM
Any of the above, depending on denomination/context/their congregation/their preference


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: John Dibble on April 04, 2012, 08:12:17 AM
Any of the above, depending on denomination/context/their congregation/their preference


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: Redalgo on April 04, 2012, 12:15:28 PM
Where is the "whatever the hell they want to wear" option?  Or I guess that should be the "whatever their congregation expects them to wear since they are paying his/her mortgage" option.

This. However, I voted for ceremonial vestments out of the options provided simply because I find it more culturally expressive and interesting than dressing like a businessperson or conforming to the unspoken public dress code of mainstream society.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: Rooney on April 04, 2012, 01:45:15 PM
I have gone to churches where the priests have dressed in all these ways. Traditional clerical dress is my preference.

The priest who wore genes and a Jefferson Starship Church was cool and had a great singing voice, but I just could not take him seriously. I also do not know if he became a priest to spread the word of Christ or advertise for his Creed cover band.

When I went to a Reformed Baptist Church the priest wore a brown suit and was a former dentist. He was smart, but boring. I never thought I would be bored at a Baptist Church but it happened. Thus, that look does not really work.

As an undergraduate I went to a Catholic university and I found that the Black Shirt, suit and white collar was a bad ass look. I also found Catholic priests to have the best sense of humor, the most interesting stories to tell and the best education. Thus, I deem traditional clerical dress as the best for priests.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: opebo on April 04, 2012, 02:07:12 PM
A lady's frock and an enormous cod-piece.

()


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 04, 2012, 09:52:07 PM
I've always said I'll never go to a church where the pastor is wearing a tie unless they are obviously doing it "ironically". If I see that I'm out the door.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 04, 2012, 09:53:13 PM
I've always said I'll never go to a church where the pastor is wearing a tie unless they are obviously doing it "ironically". If I see that I'm out the door.

Yeah. Priests dressing like businessmen is the worst. If I can't have my late-Roman secular formal wear repurposed as vestments, I'd rather go to a hipster church than a church that fancied itself a Rotarians meeting.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 04, 2012, 10:05:50 PM
LOL, but yeah. One of the pastors who baptized me looked like this (http://www.dobi.nu/yourscenesucks/orgcore/index.htm), just minus the cap and PBR. The other basically looked like a stereotypical Asian female hipster.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 04, 2012, 10:07:39 PM
I don't know what Asian female hipsters stereotypically look like.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: Yelnoc on April 04, 2012, 10:11:35 PM
Socks.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on April 05, 2012, 07:42:12 AM
Ceremonial vestments, etc. And I have to agree with Rooney on the "backwards collar".


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: John Dibble on April 05, 2012, 07:56:24 AM
I've always said I'll never go to a church where the pastor is wearing a tie unless they are obviously doing it "ironically". If I see that I'm out the door.

Because Jesus wants you to judge people by how they dress and not by their words and actions, right?


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 05, 2012, 10:43:49 AM
Hey you were the one earlier arguing that God would care about what people wear to church and not approve of hoodies, band shirts and torn jeans.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: John Dibble on April 05, 2012, 10:50:04 AM
Hey you were the one earlier arguing that God would care about what people wear to church and not approve of hoodies, band shirts and torn jeans.

That was about respect for your deity - my primary point was that I don't think you have it, that for you going to church is supposed to be about you having fun rather than being about worshiping and glorifying your god. The fact that you would refuse to enter a church to worship and glorify your god based solely on the preacher's clothing only bolsters this argument.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: Is Totally Not Feeblepizza. on April 05, 2012, 10:56:24 AM
Whatever they want.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 05, 2012, 11:04:32 AM
Hey you were the one earlier arguing that God would care about what people wear to church and not approve of hoodies, band shirts and torn jeans.

That was about respect for your deity - my primary point was that I don't think you have it, that for you going to church is supposed to be about you having fun rather than being about worshiping and glorifying your god. The fact that you would refuse to enter a church to worship and glorify your god based solely on the preacher's clothing only bolsters this argument.

The thing is, actually dressing up gives me anxiety.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: opebo on April 05, 2012, 11:23:22 AM
That was about respect for your deity - my primary point was that I don't think you have it, that for you going to church is supposed to be about you having fun rather than being about worshiping and glorifying your god. The fact that you would refuse to enter a church to worship and glorify your god based solely on the preacher's clothing only bolsters this argument.

Which are all good and hopeful indications that perhaps one day he will put this horrible flirtation with brute religion aside and turn to the light of reason and simple humanity.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 05, 2012, 11:23:45 AM
The main thing though is that any church where the pastor is wearing a suit and tie is almost certainly a fundie one.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: John Dibble on April 05, 2012, 11:42:50 AM

Even if I accept that it isn't justification for judging someone else on what they are wearing.

The main thing though is that any church where the pastor is wearing a suit and tie is almost certainly a fundie one.

Possibly, but should you really prejudge them based solely on that? Shouldn't you actually find out first?


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: opebo on April 05, 2012, 11:49:23 AM
The main thing though is that any church where the pastor is wearing a suit and tie is almost certainly a fundie one.

Back in the 1992-2001 era I used to wear polyester suits from the thrift store sometimes.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: dead0man on April 05, 2012, 02:12:25 PM
Where is that British guy (maybe guys) that always busts into threads just to threadsh**t that this is a horrible (stupid, pointless, whatever) thread?


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: The Mikado on April 05, 2012, 03:24:12 PM
Nothing.  Clergy should be nude.  Obviously.  You know you want to see Ayatollah Khamenei showing off the hot bod Allah made him.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: politicus on April 05, 2012, 03:35:45 PM
Combat dress and boots - warriors of Christ-style


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: politicus on April 05, 2012, 03:40:13 PM
Where is that British guy (maybe guys) that always busts into threads just to threadsh**t that this is a horrible (stupid, pointless, whatever) thread?
Comrade Sibboleth - maybe he is busy elsewhere. I will do it for you.

"This thread is so stupid it makes my head hurt."


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: Bacon King on April 05, 2012, 06:05:14 PM
Hey you were the one earlier arguing that God would care about what people wear to church and not approve of hoodies, band shirts and torn jeans.

That was about respect for your deity - my primary point was that I don't think you have it, that for you going to church is supposed to be about you having fun rather than being about worshiping and glorifying your god. The fact that you would refuse to enter a church to worship and glorify your god based solely on the preacher's clothing only bolsters this argument.

To be fair to BRTD, I don't think his point of view is logically inconsistent. If one disagrees with the notion that God requires formal attire during worship service to show Him respect, it follows that one would also choose not to associate himself with a church where the pastor emphasizes this practice by wearing formal business attire. 


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: John Dibble on April 05, 2012, 08:28:17 PM
Hey you were the one earlier arguing that God would care about what people wear to church and not approve of hoodies, band shirts and torn jeans.

That was about respect for your deity - my primary point was that I don't think you have it, that for you going to church is supposed to be about you having fun rather than being about worshiping and glorifying your god. The fact that you would refuse to enter a church to worship and glorify your god based solely on the preacher's clothing only bolsters this argument.

To be fair to BRTD, I don't think his point of view is logically inconsistent. If one disagrees with the notion that God requires formal attire during worship service to show Him respect, it follows that one would also choose not to associate himself with a church where the pastor emphasizes this practice by wearing formal business attire. 

The clothing thing is just one aspect though - it's really not even the most important thing. It's how he treats the whole package. He treats worship service as if it were a concert and he can't be bothered to take the time to read the whole Bible. If he were to just shut up about it like most of the fair weather followers do I wouldn't ride him about it so much, but he insists on continuing to insert it into conversation and as such it's open to criticism.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 05, 2012, 09:18:10 PM
You know I was kind of being tongue-in-cheek right? It's like me saying I'd ever leave a show if I saw a band member wearing his own band's shirt. The point though is such a church is not the type of place I'd like anyway.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on April 05, 2012, 11:01:49 PM
BRTD gives me an urge to wear suits & ceremonial vestments.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 05, 2012, 11:30:56 PM
So Cathcon which people would you rather hang out with?

()
()

And no, I don't know who the guy in the bleached hair standing behind the baptized girl and the pastors is, but let's pretend he's not there.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: TJ in Oregon on April 05, 2012, 11:40:08 PM

That reminds me of when my mom forced me to take swimming lessons as a kid and I was scared to put my face in the water.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 05, 2012, 11:50:08 PM
The first group. At worst they'd be somewhat conservative and dull for my tastes, but I can deal with that easily.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 05, 2012, 11:53:16 PM
Well this is what the guy in the second pic is like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YNtIKvt3Lo

I'm sure after watching that Nathan would still prefer hanging out with Catholic priests but he might be in a minority amongst his age group. You know Nathan, I do wonder now how well you'd fit in though with my College Democrats group in 2006 though, lol.

BTW I don't think his band is that good, it's mostly just "chugga chugga MOSH PART chugga chugga MOSH PART" over and over and over, but he still seems like a really cool guy (even if he is straightedge).


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 06, 2012, 12:11:34 AM
Well, I mean, obviously it depends on the Catholic priest in question, but there are plenty of Catholic priests who I would like and do like to hang out with, whereas there aren't terribly many hipster/hardcore types with whom I get along in my experience.

What were your College Democrats in 2006 like?


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 06, 2012, 12:23:17 AM
We were basically just a bunch of people who'd go around lit dropping and then to a party where we'd get drunk and/or high while screaming "F**K BUSH" and "END THE WAR" a lot while making sure to recycle the plastic cups we were using at the keg parties. Actually you can often reverse the order of those things, I went on drunken or at least buzzed lit drops more than a few times. And of course there was the girl who talked about how she always provided weed to anyone seeking it at the parties she was at as long as they took voter registration materials too. Good times. Life was so simple back then.

FWIW I don't think the College Republicans were much different, they just went to different parties, drunkenly screamed different slogans and weren't so big on making sure they recycled. And with that I think I have an accurate image of Cathcon in 6 years.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 06, 2012, 12:27:18 AM
Cathcon definitely strikes me as a more libertarian-leaning College Republican type down the line, yeah.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on April 06, 2012, 05:47:09 AM
Cathcon definitely strikes me as a more libertarian-leaning College Republican type down the line, yeah.

How did I come into this? But yeah, I'm getting more libertarian, though I still maintain a good amount of social conservatism & reverence for tradition (as you can probably see)


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 06, 2012, 10:51:41 AM
Well you spawned the debate. But anyway the point remains in which pic do the people look better to hang out with? Also for obvious reasons you never have hot Zooey Deschanel lookalikes as Catholic priests, like the female pastor in the second pic.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 06, 2012, 11:54:05 AM
Cathcon definitely strikes me as a more libertarian-leaning College Republican type down the line, yeah.

How did I come into this? But yeah, I'm getting more libertarian, though I still maintain a good amount of social conservatism & reverence for tradition (as you can probably see)

Eh, it's just you seem to have that sort of personality. I can't really put my finger on it. Certainly not as libertarian as a lot of the yellow avatars here, but still more than you are now.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on April 06, 2012, 01:41:24 PM
Whatever they see fit, although I, of course, much prefer option 1.

Also, what Cathcon said.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: The Mikado on April 06, 2012, 02:08:00 PM
Actually, the more I think about it, the more my nude proposal makes sense.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: ZuWo on April 06, 2012, 02:31:32 PM
All 3 options are fine to me if I can agree with the pastor's words. But if pressed, I'd vote option 2 since that's what I'm used to.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on April 06, 2012, 03:28:55 PM
Wait- is that a swimming pool in the 2nd pic? Man, that is ratty. As for the first pic, not impressive enough. Baptisms (& preferably all religious services) should take place in huge cathedrals shaped like crosses & full of ornate art, soaring ceilings, & huge pipe organs with 3 or 4 keyboards + pedals.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: useful idiot on April 06, 2012, 04:40:16 PM
The main thing though is that any church where the pastor is wearing a suit and tie is almost certainly a fundie one.

Not really. It largely depends on what part of the country you're in and the denominational tradition. Leaving aside the fact that you mean "conservative" when you say "fundie," rather than fundamentalist, it's not uncommon at all around here for a mainline minister to wear a suit and tie (or some kind of blazer with a tie). I have yet to walk into a Methodist service and see the pastor not wearing a suit or khaki's and a blazer (unless they're in a robe). Ditto for PCUSA (although I have less experience with them). Also I've been to one UCC service in my life and the pastor was wearing a dark suit, white shirt, and a red tie. Cooperative Baptist Fellowship pastors almost always dress up.

Actually in my experience pastors on the moderate end of the evangelical spectrum are far more likely to dress down than those in liberal churches.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: John Dibble on April 06, 2012, 08:13:19 PM
Wait- is that a swimming pool in the 2nd pic? Man, that is ratty. As for the first pic, not impressive enough. Baptisms (& preferably all religious services) should take place in huge cathedrals shaped like crosses & full of ornate art, soaring ceilings, & huge pipe organs with 3 or 4 keyboards + pedals.

Personally I think a river or a lake would be nicer for a baptism if you're going to have one. But either way would be a step up from a swimming pool.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 06, 2012, 09:15:23 PM
Wait- is that a swimming pool in the 2nd pic? Man, that is ratty. As for the first pic, not impressive enough. Baptisms (& preferably all religious services) should take place in huge cathedrals shaped like crosses & full of ornate art, soaring ceilings, & huge pipe organs with 3 or 4 keyboards + pedals.

I just used Wikipedia's first pic for infant baptism and yeah it being a swimming pool is kind of weird. But anyway the point is some cool dude with tattoos and what looks like a comic book shirt or something and a hot Zooey Deschanel lookalike are a lot cooler than some old dude in white robes.

Wait- is that a swimming pool in the 2nd pic? Man, that is ratty. As for the first pic, not impressive enough. Baptisms (& preferably all religious services) should take place in huge cathedrals shaped like crosses & full of ornate art, soaring ceilings, & huge pipe organs with 3 or 4 keyboards + pedals.

Personally I think a river or a lake would be nicer for a baptism if you're going to have one. But either way would be a step up from a swimming pool.

Hey I got baptized in one of those miniature inflatable pools that kids play in in backyards! But of course a river or lake isn't exactly a good option for baptism in Minnesota in February. I know during the summer some churches here do baptisms in Lake Harriett.

The main thing though is that any church where the pastor is wearing a suit and tie is almost certainly a fundie one.

Not really. It largely depends on what part of the country you're in and the denominational tradition. Leaving aside the fact that you mean "conservative" when you say "fundie," rather than fundamentalist, it's not uncommon at all around here for a mainline minister to wear a suit and tie (or some kind of blazer with a tie). I have yet to walk into a Methodist service and see the pastor not wearing a suit or khaki's and a blazer (unless they're in a robe). Ditto for PCUSA (although I have less experience with them). Also I've been to one UCC service in my life and the pastor was wearing a dark suit, white shirt, and a red tie. Cooperative Baptist Fellowship pastors almost always dress up.

Actually in my experience pastors on the moderate end of the evangelical spectrum are far more likely to dress down than those in liberal churches.

Maybe that's a Deep South thing, wouldn't surprise me. I've actually never seen a pastor wearing a suit in real life, period. At my parents' church (ELCA) the pastors aren't as dressed down as the type of church I'd go to but they wear basically khakis and a dress shirt, sort of business casual.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on April 06, 2012, 09:17:34 PM
I'm pretty sure it's "Zoey" Deschanel, though I could easily be wrong...


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 06, 2012, 09:26:01 PM
No, her parents were just unique in spelling her name.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on April 06, 2012, 09:40:44 PM
sh**t man, you spelled it right. This place gets weirder everyday.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on April 06, 2012, 09:44:19 PM
I named my Mass Effect female Shepard after her (Zooey Shepard).


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: J. J. on April 08, 2012, 05:07:39 PM
When officiating, vestments.

Some Protestant ministers where academic dress.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: dead0man on April 08, 2012, 06:27:27 PM
Hey I got baptized in one of those miniature inflatable pools that kids play in in backyards! But of course a river or lake isn't exactly a good option for baptism in Minnesota in February. I know during the summer some churches here do baptisms in Lake Harriett.
Why don't you purify yourself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka?


+3 internet points for whoever gets the reference (without google of course)


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: Del Tachi on April 08, 2012, 10:09:55 PM
Well, since I reject the idea of ordained clergy but rather prefer that preaching be done by volunteer, lay members of the congregation I can say that it doesn't matter to me what they wear.

However, I would like if my preachers wore suits and other business attire as it is just what I am used to. 


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 09, 2012, 12:02:25 AM
Hey I got baptized in one of those miniature inflatable pools that kids play in in backyards! But of course a river or lake isn't exactly a good option for baptism in Minnesota in February. I know during the summer some churches here do baptisms in Lake Harriett.
Why don't you purify yourself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka?


+3 internet points for whoever gets the reference (without google of course)

It's from some Prince vehicle, forget the title.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on June 18, 2012, 11:34:07 AM
It depends on the occasion.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: Globus Cruciger on June 22, 2012, 01:06:26 AM
Some form of vestments, definitely. They don't have to be fancy, even use a simple black Geneva gown if you want. But preachers in suit and tie (or worse, T-shirts) just look dumb.

But the weird new-age feminist hippie vestments beloved of some can be extraordinarily ugly and distracting, I must say.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 11, 2012, 07:27:16 PM
Some form of vestments, definitely. They don't have to be fancy, even use a simple black Geneva gown if you want. But preachers in suit and tie (or worse, T-shirts) just look dumb.

But the weird new-age feminist hippie vestments beloved of some can be extraordinarily ugly and distracting, I must say.

Amen to that.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: J. J. on October 17, 2012, 09:53:40 PM
Hey I got baptized in one of those miniature inflatable pools that kids play in in backyards! But of course a river or lake isn't exactly a good option for baptism in Minnesota in February. I know during the summer some churches here do baptisms in Lake Harriett.
Why don't you purify yourself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka?


+3 internet points for whoever gets the reference (without google of course)

It's from some Prince vehicle, forget the title.

Purple Rain, and that would be leather.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: memphis on October 17, 2012, 11:54:19 PM
Ideally, there would be no clergy, but options 1 and 2 are absurdly archaic for everybody.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 18, 2012, 05:26:56 AM
Ideally, there would be no clergy, but options 1 and 2 are absurdly archaic for everybody.

Suits look damn good and don't you forget it.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on October 18, 2012, 10:39:05 AM
Ideally, there would be no clergy, but options 1 and 2 are absurdly archaic for everybody.

Suits look damn good and don't you forget it.

No they don't. Ties only look good if one wears them "ironically". My supervisor at work often wears a tie along with ripped jeans and with a hoodie over it.

Speaking of which one of the pastors at my church did wear a tie when he was preaching one week, but of course it was to be "ironic". The next time he preached he was actually wearing a hoodie.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: memphis on October 18, 2012, 12:12:26 PM
The thing about suits is that they automatically make a man look suspicious and insincere. Salesmen, lawyers, politicians. Not exactly good company.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on October 18, 2012, 07:23:47 PM
Ideally, there would be no clergy, but options 1 and 2 are absurdly archaic for everybody.

Hence why clergy should wear them. Religion is supposed to be or at least evoke the transhistorical.


Title: Re: What should clergy wear?
Post by: DC Al Fine on October 19, 2012, 01:04:14 PM
Ideally, there would be no clergy, but options 1 and 2 are absurdly archaic for everybody.

Suits look damn good and don't you forget it.

No they don't. Ties only look good if one wears them "ironically". My supervisor at work often wears a tie along with ripped jeans and with a hoodie over it.

Speaking of which one of the pastors at my church did wear a tie when he was preaching one week, but of course it was to be "ironic". The next time he preached he was actually wearing a hoodie.

Heh. It's funny. I've read your posts on politics and religion and even though I disagree with you, I don't get mad. But now you have a different fashion opinion and I'm pissed. Funny that.