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Forum Community => Off-topic Board => Topic started by: Tender Branson on April 14, 2012, 12:06:11 PM



Title: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Tender Branson on April 14, 2012, 12:06:11 PM
Didn't know where to put this, because there's only a "book review" sub-section, but not a "movie/TV-series review" sub-section.

So, any Trekkies here ?

Just recently I have watched "Dark Frontier" which is an episode from Voyager, in which the Borg Queen tries to lure Seven of Nine back into the collective to oversee the assimilation of a new species. The 2 episodes also detail how Seven's parents, the Hansen's (probably of Swedish origin), followed the Borg vessels and even entered them to study the Borg drones and it's organisational structure. They developed a technology that allowed them to enter a Borg cube, without being detected by the Borg drones.

But here's what I don't understand: Captain Janeway and her crew went into the Borg vessel with the same technology like the Hansen's to get Seven back to Voyager, and the Borg first ignored them because they were not detectable, but why exactly ?

The Borg assimiliated the Hansen's years ago and also their memories and technological knowledge. So why didn't they "see" Janeway and assimilated her ? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiCaCOePs3I


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Bacon King on April 14, 2012, 01:50:20 PM
Welcome to Voyager- plot holes everywhere!


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on April 14, 2012, 02:11:11 PM
:D


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Redalgo on April 14, 2012, 02:54:37 PM
I've seen all of the movies, used to watch the Original Series, Voyager, and TNG pretty regularly, and read somewhere along the lines of half a dozen books tied into the franchise but was never especially hardcore about it. Overall, I'm more of a Trekkie than Star Wars fan but the core of my sci-fi geekery lies elsewhere. Hehehe.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on April 14, 2012, 04:20:48 PM
Prefer TNG/DS9 myself, although "Dark Frontier" wasn't that bad compared to your average Voyager episode.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on April 14, 2012, 05:53:34 PM
god i love Star Trek.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 5280 on April 14, 2012, 07:19:08 PM
I've seen all the orignal series, have them on DVD.  Seen all the movies, starting to watch TNG again.   I even had a Star Trek t-shirt, I wore yesterday.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on April 14, 2012, 07:23:55 PM
Seen all the movies, all of Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise, and watch TNG infrequently. I respect the Original Series, but have no real love for it. I tend to view TNG as incredibly overrated and don't care for it much either.

But yeah, Voyager.. A constant disappointment.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 5280 on April 14, 2012, 07:26:24 PM
But yeah, Voyager.. A constant disappointment.
I never got into Voyager, watched some on TV and wasn't impressed.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on April 15, 2012, 04:45:18 PM
     I've seen most of TNG, VOY, & ENT, but my favorite is TOS. I've seen all of the movies, except for VI.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Tender Branson on April 16, 2012, 12:52:37 AM
     I've seen most of TNG, VOY, & ENT, but my favorite is TOS. I've seen all of the movies, except for VI.

Movie 6 is a very good one, you have to watch it at some point.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on April 16, 2012, 02:15:34 AM
     I've seen most of TNG, VOY, & ENT, but my favorite is TOS. I've seen all of the movies, except for VI.

Movie 6 is a very good one, you have to watch it at some point.

     I've tried to get hold of it, but with little success. I'm rather cheap, so I don't really have the means to buy it or stream it. :-\


Title: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Eraserhead on December 06, 2012, 05:15:03 AM
The title sucks imo but the teaser trailer just hit and the actual movie is looking pretty incredible.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/12/06/star-trek-into-darkness-teaser/


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on December 06, 2012, 09:48:58 AM
I'm very excited for this.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Tender Branson on December 06, 2012, 02:50:17 PM
Film looks good (for action and box office), but it's hardly "my" Star Trek anymore.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Lief 🗽 on December 06, 2012, 02:54:12 PM
Yeah... when did Star Trek become a generic sci-fi action thing?


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: DemPGH on December 06, 2012, 03:33:52 PM
Yeah... when did Star Trek become a generic sci-fi action thing?

With Voyager and DS9.

I saw the OP and thought, "Aw no, not another Star Trek movie." But. Marketing and economics drive the American big budget film industry.

Lots of folks actually do still make movies, though, but they're not marketed very well. You actually go make movies with a good script and good dialogue and a real story, and if they look good you graduate up to these kinds of things.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 06, 2012, 04:19:35 PM
Film looks good (for action and box office), but it's hardly "my" Star Trek anymore.

TOS or nothing :)  That said, 2009 movie was enjoyable and I'll probably end up seeing this.  I really hope the rumors that Cumberbatch is playing Gary Mitchell are true.  That was one of my favorite episodes! 


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Paul Kemp on December 06, 2012, 04:53:20 PM
meh I'm not big on the franchise. I enjoyed the last movie but haven't watched it since. Nothing really grabbed me in this trailer and the title absolutely blows.

Maybe I'll catch it on TV.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Boris on December 06, 2012, 07:16:00 PM
Eh, stop whining because they're action sequences and special effects. It's not as if such elements were totally absent from Wrath of Khan or First Contact.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: RI on December 06, 2012, 07:45:50 PM
Looking forward to this. :)


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on December 06, 2012, 09:36:05 PM
I really liked the 2009 movie and everything, but the trailer doesn't leave me very excited. That trailer is barely recognizable as Star Trek.

And yeah, the title is super dumb, and the reason that it's super dumb is also super dumb.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Eraserhead on December 06, 2012, 10:05:59 PM
Michael Bay will be directing again? Disappointing.

Sheesh, some of you guys are harsh. Action sells, so it's not surprising that the teaser trailer is very action-centric.

The 2009 movie was a lot fun and certainly doesn't deserve to be compared to that brain dead Michael Bay crap.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on December 06, 2012, 11:34:45 PM
So shall we take bets as to who Benedict is playing? I'm playing it safe and calling it for Khan. :P


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: RI on December 07, 2012, 12:32:26 AM
So shall we take bets as to who Benedict is playing? I'm playing it safe and calling it for Khan. :P

I think the Gary Mitchell theory seems more likely.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Bacon King on December 07, 2012, 11:37:28 AM
Yeah... when did Star Trek become a generic sci-fi action thing?

With Voyager and DS9.

Hey now, DS9 was TV gold. And Voyager was good for at least the first season.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on December 07, 2012, 01:12:50 PM
Yeah... when did Star Trek become a generic sci-fi action thing?

With Voyager and DS9.

Hey now, DS9 was TV gold. And Voyager was good for at least the first season.

I've always considered both DS9 and Voyager to be pretty awful, tbh.  TOS was excellent (it had its bad episodes, but overall it was great show) and what made it great was its masterful use of science-fiction as a vehicle for social commentary, philosophical questions, etc. TNG definitely had its moments and I liked it, but it doesn't hold a candle to the TOS.  Also, it shifted between deeper themes and generic science-fiction.  After TNG went off the air, Star Trek died, imo.  It basically became generic sci-fi unworthy of a noble name.  The deeper themes vanished completely.  Even the 2009 film was entertaining, but that isn't "my" Star Trek anymore.  I regard it as an entertaining, reasonably well-made sci-fi film, but also one without of any of the deeper themes that made TOS or even TNG good (and even TNG wasn't that amazing).  On the plus side though, there was no Wesley Crusher :P 


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on December 07, 2012, 07:20:40 PM
I really liked the 2009 movie and everything, but the trailer doesn't leave me very excited. That trailer is barely recognizable as Star Trek.

And yeah, the title is super dumb, and the reason that it's super dumb is also super dumb.

The rule of thumb for Star Trek movies is that every other one is a stinker, so don't expect too much.

By the way, instead of Gary Mitchell, maybe the villain will be Gary Seven (http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gary_Seven).


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: King on December 07, 2012, 07:49:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02LgdXVkXgM


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: 7,052,770 on December 07, 2012, 09:49:50 PM
The 2009 film was the 9th best* of the 11 movies, and an unnecessary slap in the face to the long-time fans.  It could have been just as good without destroying all the continuity.

*- It was still decent nonetheless.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on December 07, 2012, 11:45:30 PM
The 2009 film was the 9th best* of the 11 movies, and an unnecessary slap in the face to the long-time fans.  It could have been just as good without destroying all the continuity.

*- It was still decent nonetheless.

     That was my thought as well. It's an alright movie, but after watching Star Trek for so long, that movie was sort of a disappointment.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Bacon King on December 08, 2012, 07:17:07 AM
what made it great was its masterful use of science-fiction as a vehicle for social commentary, philosophical questions, etc. ...  Also, it shifted between deeper themes and generic science-fiction.

You just described here exactly why DS9 is my favorite Trek. :P


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Eraserhead on December 08, 2012, 07:19:40 AM
The 2009 film was the 9th best* of the 11 movies, and an unnecessary slap in the face to the long-time fans.  It could have been just as good without destroying all the continuity.

*- It was still decent nonetheless.

9th best? So what were the only two that you thought were worse?


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: DemPGH on December 08, 2012, 09:07:31 AM
I thought the 2009 movie was just okay (what I saw of it). Will almost surely skip Into Darkness.

After The Next generation I more or less tapped out of it. And I actually remember when that show legitimately challenged Monday Night Football in the classic days of Michaels, Gifford, and Dierdorf on ABC. I think between DS9 and Voyager I've seen six episodes. Just doesn't do it for me. Gene died in '91, I think, and the people running The Next Generation more or less finished it with his vision, but the other spin-offs were clearly meant to take it in the direction of general sci-fi action, because I think it dawned on them how much money the Star Wars franchise had mad with only three movies.

That said, I always liked the 1960s Trek. The sets, the characters, Kirk talking his way or reasoning his way out of every situation, it's really retro now. Special effects would be like a sparkler or something. It's missed!


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on December 08, 2012, 09:27:17 AM
Calling DS9 generic sci-fi action is selling it criminally short. Hell, calling Voyager or Enterprise that is even unfair. TNG was lightweight and too one-note for my taste.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: DemPGH on December 08, 2012, 09:54:03 AM
I've read really glowing reviews of DS9 (multi-dimensional, more philosophical), and I've read really awful reviews (Vietnam in space with too much emoting, then several characters go off on a spirit quest or something - meh). What little I've seen of it, I can say that the acting is really good, but it's just not my thing. I liked the space amoebas and Kirk fighting a walking alligator on the planet with raw chemicals strewn about before Kirk figures out how to make a cannon. That was cool.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on December 08, 2012, 10:52:05 AM
By modern standards, the original Star Trek is a fairly lightweight piece of drama, but for its time it was a fairly cerebral television show. (At least during the first two seasons it was. The less said about the third, the better.)


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Bacon King on December 08, 2012, 06:14:13 PM
By modern standards, the original Star Trek is a fairly lightweight piece of drama, but for its time it was a fairly cerebral television show. (At least during the first two seasons it was. The less said about the third, the better.)

You can just pretend it doesn't exist like I do with Nemesis!


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Joe Biden is your president. Deal with it. on December 08, 2012, 10:15:25 PM
Lol at some nerds hating this because its a new alternate timeline.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on December 08, 2012, 10:49:41 PM
Lol at some nerds hating this because its a new alternate timeline.

To be fair, the thing I hate most about Star Trek is its overuse of time travel, and generally badly written time travel at that.  "The City on the Edge of Forever" being an exception but that is because unlike most of the drek that is Star Trek time travel, Kirk had to make an actual sacrifice to set things right again.  Most of the time, Star Trek has used time travel to explore an story in which things go badly for out heroes, but then everything gets reset so that not only no harm is done, but sometimes some good is done.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Barnes on December 08, 2012, 10:51:20 PM
By modern standards, the original Star Trek is a fairly lightweight piece of drama, but for its time it was a fairly cerebral television show. (At least during the first two seasons it was. The less said about the third, the better.)

You can just pretend it doesn't exist like I do with Nemesis!

I try, believe me; but "Spock's Brain" continues to haunt me.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on December 09, 2012, 12:34:30 AM
"Spock's Brain" continues to haunt me.

"Brain and brain, what is brain?"


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: 7,052,770 on December 09, 2012, 12:32:44 PM
The 2009 film was the 9th best* of the 11 movies, and an unnecessary slap in the face to the long-time fans.  It could have been just as good without destroying all the continuity.

*- It was still decent nonetheless.

9th best? So what were the only two that you thought were worse?

The Motion Picture (absolutely awful) and Insurrection.  I might actually put XI in a 3-way tie for 7th with Nemesis and Generations, come to think of it.


Title: Re: Star Trek Into Darkness
Post by: Barnes on December 11, 2012, 12:12:10 AM

Kirk: It was taken out; it can be put back in.
McCoy: But I don't know how!
Kirk: The thief that took it has the knowledge. I'll FORCE it out of her!

Dirty humor abounds itself throughout TOS! ;D


Title: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: Tender Branson on April 20, 2013, 01:03:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ1qOs7jkIQ

Will be in cinemas in ca. 1 month.


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: 7,052,770 on April 20, 2013, 01:07:12 PM
Meh.  Destroying all that continuity was criminal.  I probably won't even go see this.

I hope that when Star Trek comes back into TV at some point, they ignore these movies and stick to the established universe.


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: 7,052,770 on April 20, 2013, 01:12:08 PM
Oh, I think I unmistakably saw Elizabeth Dehner, so I think we can confirm that the villain is Gary Mitchell.  (Or was that already confirmed?)


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: Tender Branson on April 20, 2013, 01:13:16 PM
Meh.  Destroying all that continuity was criminal.  I probably won't even go see this.

I hope that when Star Trek comes back into TV at some point, they ignore these movies and stick to the established universe.

Yeah, I agree that TOS, TNG, DS9 were the best (Voyager and Enterprise had some good episodes), but since they are not bringing it back on TV for a veerrrry long time and this new alternative timeline Skyfall-ish looking movie is all we got, it's probably better to watch this instead of nothing at all ... :P


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: Eraserhead on April 20, 2013, 01:17:47 PM
The villain is named John Harrison. He seems to be an original character (unless that is a bogus identity... which seems very possible).

I'm looking forward to the movie. The trailers for it have just become overkill at this point.


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: 7,052,770 on April 20, 2013, 01:28:38 PM
I highly doubt this woman is anyone other than Elizabeth Dehner:

()


If I'm wrong, I won't admit it.  I'll just rant about how much I don't like the movie.


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on April 20, 2013, 01:43:25 PM
Yeah, it's clear they're at least playing into speculation that the villain is Mitchell or an alt-universe version of Mitchell.  It's entirely possible that in order to avoid paying royalties to Samuel Peeples' estate, Peeples wrote the second pilot episode of the original series, they'll rename or revise the characters enough for copyright purposes.


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on April 21, 2013, 04:32:16 PM
Is it bad that the only reason I'm going to go see this is to gauge how good the next Star Wars movie is going to be? :P


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: ShadowRocket on April 22, 2013, 10:53:14 PM
I highly doubt this woman is anyone other than Elizabeth Dehner:

()


If I'm wrong, I won't admit it.  I'll just rant about how much I don't like the movie.

Alice Eve is actually playing Carol Marcus.

Personally, I think Benedict Cumberbatch's character John Harrison will be new though.


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on April 23, 2013, 12:22:46 AM
It's Khan. I will bet a $100 Cumberbatch is Khan.


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: Eraserhead on April 23, 2013, 01:51:07 PM
Is it bad that the only reason I'm going to go see this is to gauge how good the next Star Wars movie is going to be? :P

Yes. Yes, it is.

It's Khan. I will bet a $100 Cumberbatch is Khan.

The character seems absolutely nothing like Khan though. It'd have to be a radically different interpretation of the character. I can't really see it.


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on April 23, 2013, 03:15:21 PM
Spoilers from the Sydney premiere last night are out and about.


Title: Re: New Star Trek Into Darkness trailer out
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on April 23, 2013, 04:58:33 PM
Spoilers from the Sydney premiere last night are out and about.

If the spoilers I've read are accurate, especially as to the ending, I won't be wasting my money on this film.  Even some of the other stuff, such as the involvement of Section 31, while not so bad, isn't Trek to me.  I never did care for Section 31, as it was never believable.  I liked that they tried to make the Federation grittier and more realistic in Deep Space 9, but Section 31 was just as absurdly unrealistic, just in a dystopian way as opposed to Roddenberry's unrealistic utopianism.  Anyway the stuff I put in white text are minor spoilers. I didn't bother anything to say about the major spoiler. As for another minor spoiler, I do wish Abram had left the Tribbles alone.  They don't really fit into an Abram's film.  They should have waited to have the Tribbles appear in a more comedic Star Trek movie along with such classic elements as Harry Mudd.  That would be Stella!


Title: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on July 20, 2014, 11:53:43 AM
I've gone all of my 26 (and very soon to be 27) years without giving Star Trek much thought. For some reason, a couple weeks ago, I decided to start watching Star Trek: TNG from the beginning on Netflix. Right now, I'm very close to the end of season 2. I've so fallen in love with it that it's all I'm currently really watching, not that there's much to watch this time of year. I've seen episodes here and there in passing, but this is the first time I've really given the show a real chance. I've always wanted to sit down and watch the show and I finally have. I'll probably end up venturing into the other series, most likely DS9 next.

From what I've seen so far, these are what I think have been the best episodes (limiting myself to five or so, with asterisks for my favourites from each):

Season1
The Last Outpost
Where No One Has Gone Before
Home Soil
Skin of Evil (mainly for the very shocking death)
Conspiracy*
The Neutral Zone

Season 2
Where Silence Has Lease
The Measure of a Man
Contagion
Time Squared
Q Who*

Q Who was among the creepiest episodes with the introduction of the Borg (and probably the best episode I've seen as of yet).


Season 3
The Defector
Yesterday's Enterprise
Sins of the Father
Sarek
The Best of Both Worlds* (I&II)

Season 4
Remember Me*
Reunion
Future Imperfect
Clues
Night Terrors
The Drumhead
The Mind's Eye
Redemption (I&II)

Season 5
Darmok
Disaster
Conundrum
Cause and Effect*
I, Borg*
The Next Phase
The Inner Light

Season 6
Schisms*
Chain of Command (I&II)
Face of the Enemy
Tapestry
Frame of Mind
Timescape
Descent, Part I

Season 7
Phantasms
Attached
Parallels
(Genesis (guilty pleasure))
All Good Things...*


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Tender Branson on July 20, 2014, 12:06:30 PM
If you like TNG, you will love DS9 - because Sisko vs. Dukat is virtually Star Trek's version to the Obama vs. Romney election.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Tender Branson on July 20, 2014, 12:22:06 PM
Q Who was among the creepiest episodes with the introduction of the Borg (and probably the best episode I've seen as of yet).

Yep, I assume you have never seen the movie "First Contact" yet then ?


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: dead0man on July 20, 2014, 12:27:51 PM
TNG is the only Star Trek thing I ever really got into.  Some of the early season sets and special effects make Dr Who look like Star Wars, but the stories are good, the acting is (for the most part) top notch, the characters are (again, for the most part) good to great.  Some of the dialogue is rough, as in no real person would say those words in that situation, but that happens every where all the time so I can't give TNG too much sh**t for that...though it does seem to happen a lot on the show.  But overall a great SciFi TV show.  Probably my second favorite behind SG1....ok, maybe third, I think I liked Farscape better.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on July 20, 2014, 02:12:10 PM
Ahh, I'm envious - you're discovering this great show for the first time. :) I wasn't able to get into anything Trek related post Next Generation. It was so well written and acted. There have been rumors about a reboot centered around either Riker or Worf, but they've all been shot down.

By all objective measures the show improved a lot and settled down in Season 3 and steadily got better, IMO. Characters start to develop relationships of various kinds (Data's cat, lol) and carve out their own niches doing this or that.

Worf sitting in the mud bath in "Cost of Living" from Season 5 was hilarious. "So you're just supposed to sit here??" he barks. LOL.

I think you'll enjoy Season 3 and beyond a lot. Wait till "The Best of Both Worlds." :P

Season 7 takes a creepy turn, so you might like some shows there.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: dead0man on July 20, 2014, 02:14:08 PM
Yep, it gets better as it goes on.  Even Wesley becomes enjoyable a couple of times.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on July 20, 2014, 02:20:51 PM
Yep, it gets better as it goes on.  Even Wesley becomes enjoyable a couple of times.

Yes. The one where he gets in trouble for a stunt he pulled with his buddies at the Academy was very good!


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: dead0man on July 20, 2014, 02:26:03 PM
Indeed.  Wesley takes more crap than he deserves really, even when he was a whinging little bitch he was SUPPOSED to be a whinging little bitch.  Though his new show on ScyFy (another The Soup knockoff) kind of sucks and he's part of the reason why, but I still watch it because I like the format and I like him, he's just not as good at it as...well, pretty much everybody else that's done it.  Certainly worse than Hardwick, McHale and Tosh or any of the Talk Soup guys.  Then again, ALL those guys are stand ups first (save McHale, but he's just got charm oozing out of his ears) so it comes easier to them.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on July 20, 2014, 02:26:13 PM
I've never really got myself into Star Trek, but I think I'd really enjoy it. I've seen some of the movies (First Contact was fantastic) and a couple episodes from TNG and Voyager. I'll try to watch more of TNG over the next few months.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 20, 2014, 02:48:45 PM
Seasons 3 and 4 of TNG were the high point of the entire Star Trek franchise IMHO.

Everything that immediately followed was far from being crap, but this is certainly were Trek peaked in terms of having a consistent streak of high-quality writing and storytelling.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on July 20, 2014, 02:55:23 PM
What's the point of Star Trek if you're not going to watch TOS?


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on July 20, 2014, 03:32:05 PM
Seasons 3 and 4 of TNG were the high point of the entire Star Trek franchise IMHO.

Everything that immediately followed was far from being crap, but this is certainly were Trek peaked in terms of having a consistent streak of high-quality writing and storytelling.

I really cannot understand how a person would think this when DS9 exists. Hell, Enterprise told better long-running stories than TNG did. By virtue of telling them at all.

Anyway, good on you for getting into Star Trek, Lefty. You'll never enjoy TNG more than when you've watched nothing but TNG.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on July 20, 2014, 03:35:50 PM
Speaking of this, does anyone know where I could find TNG to stream? The ideal for me would be English with English subtitles, but English with French or Italian subtitles would work as well.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 20, 2014, 03:50:47 PM
Seasons 3 and 4 of TNG were the high point of the entire Star Trek franchise IMHO.

Everything that immediately followed was far from being crap, but this is certainly were Trek peaked in terms of having a consistent streak of high-quality writing and storytelling.

I really cannot understand how a person would think this when DS9 exists. Hell, Enterprise told better long-running stories than TNG did. By virtue of telling them at all.

I wasn't even talking about story arcs.

I was talking about the quality of writing of the individual episodes, which in case of TNG's 3rd and 4th season has been consistently high and has been in fact higher than during any other season of Star Trek IMO.

This has nothing to do whether they belong to story arcs or are standalone stories, unless you'd argue that the fact that an episode is part of a story arc alone makes it a better episode. A view I would contest since a lot of crappy episodes can also be found in story arcs.

For instance, I consider the 5th and 6th season of DS9 the high point of that particular show. Still, these seasons include examples of truly horrendous episodes like "Let He Who Is Without Sin...", "Ferengi Love Songs", "Resurrection", "Profit and Lace", or "Time's Orphan"...

Seasons 3 and 4 of TNG never manged to drop to the level of true stinkfests like "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." or "Profit and Lace". The worst contributions to the Trek lore from those seasons are probably "The Price" and "The Loss". But these could be considered boring rather than an insult to the intelligence of the viewers. Granted, "The Price" comes awfully close to crossing the event horizon here.

Anyway, I think during seasons 3 and 4 of TNG, Star Trek actually came closest to a non-SciFi drama series in terms of quality. Season 3 deserved an Emmy IMO. (TNG was - somewhat late - nominated for an Emmy as Best Drama Series after Season 7 had aired, but lost to Picket Fences that year.)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on July 20, 2014, 07:44:40 PM
TNG and DS9 are the counterparts that serve as the hallmarks of the series. If anything could run as yin and yang in terms of storytelling of all the Trek franchises, its those two. With TNG, you get the explorer spirit, Picard's unflinching idealism, good, standalone stories that really showcase what episodic storytelling can do. On the other hand, you have DS9, grounded and dark, consistently grappling with giving up that idealism when your existence is on the line. Behr put together some good season-long storytelling. Granted, its still the standalones that come through the best, but the character evolution is top notch. (Damar for example)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on July 20, 2014, 09:28:28 PM
Worf sitting in the mud bath in "Cost of Living" from Season 5 was hilarious. "So you're just supposed to sit here??" he barks. LOL.
From "Qpid" in season 4:
()


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on July 20, 2014, 10:39:55 PM
Worf sitting in the mud bath in "Cost of Living" from Season 5 was hilarious. "So you're just supposed to sit here??" he barks. LOL.
From "Qpid" in season 4:
()

Him taking the lute Geordi had and breaking it, and then apologizing was the only thing that saved that episode.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on July 20, 2014, 11:31:34 PM
     TNG is pretty good, though I thought it was too "optimistic" for my tastes. DS9 is much darker, and for that matter so is TOS. As much as it gets lampooned for its campiness, the characters in TOS had their share of flaws.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on July 21, 2014, 05:34:16 AM
Speaking of this, does anyone know where I could find TNG to stream? The ideal for me would be English with English subtitles, but English with French or Italian subtitles would work as well.

Anyone?


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on July 26, 2014, 08:43:29 AM
Yep, I assume you have never seen the movie "First Contact" yet then ?

Nope. I've never seen any of the movies. I'll get there, but I like to watch things in the proper order.

I think you'll enjoy Season 3 and beyond a lot. Wait till "The Best of Both Worlds." :P

Yeah, I'm almost there, and looking forward to it. I've heard very good things. I just finished S3E19 (Captain's Holiday, which I think is definitely one of the weakest episodes of the season).

What's the point of Star Trek if you're not going to watch TOS?

I'm sure I'll get there eventually. It's just not a priority. My biggest concern with TOS is that it might feel dated and I'm not sure how I'll like it, though I'll absolutely give it a chance.

In any event, I'm still just sticking with TNG right now (and from I've read, DS9 seems to be the best to go to after that). Voyager seems to have mixed reviews, and Enterprise sounds like something to avoided altogether.

Speaking of this, does anyone know where I could find TNG to stream? The ideal for me would be English with English subtitles, but English with French or Italian subtitles would work as well.
Anyone?

Netflix has all the Star Trek series with subtitles, but I don't know if you can get it where you are. I really don't know what your streaming options are. Maybe there's some way you can get the DVDs?


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: 7,052,770 on July 26, 2014, 03:24:33 PM
If you liked seasons 1-2 of TNG, you'll love seasons 3-6. And you'll love DS9 too.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on July 26, 2014, 10:08:20 PM
I don't dislike Deep Space Nine, but I couldn't get into it. It's too static for me and the Dominion arc and the intrigue is a little too much of one thing.

With Next Gen, it also dawned on me that in addition to what dead0man said about Wesley, Lwaxana's material also got much, much better in the later seasons. She was only in a handful of shows, but her material during the early seasons is silly out of control libido or matchmaker antics. Her later material is very serious and at times heavy - "Dark Page" from Season 7 is a good example. It's a fine example as to what that character could have been.

What about the Next Gen Movies?

VII. Generations
VIII. First Contact
IX. Insurrection
X. Nemesis

I actually like Insurrection - it's probably the most Next Generation-y of the movies, it's got a great villain (although I tend to lean toward less make-up and prosthetics), Data is more normal, and I love the closing shot. Nemesis is the stinker, IMO - it's a bad B movie with a mega budget. God awful premise, bad villain, and someone watched a certain 1920s vampire movie in coming up with the stupid underlings. That movie was so bad it killed the freaking series.

Speaking of this, does anyone know where I could find TNG to stream? The ideal for me would be English with English subtitles, but English with French or Italian subtitles would work as well.

Anyone?

I have no idea. The region 1 DVDs do not have Italian, I know that.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Badger on July 27, 2014, 10:26:51 PM
I just rewatched episode 25 of season 6, The Inner Light. The best episode ever imho. Unbelievably touching.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on July 27, 2014, 10:32:54 PM
I just rewatched episode 25 of season 6, The Inner Light. The best episode ever imho. Unbelievably touching.

That was Season 5, not Season 6.

And I've always thought that DS9's "The Visitor" makes for an interesting companion piece to "The Inner Light".


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on July 28, 2014, 10:31:26 AM
This is just beautiful, Stewart at the top of his game, which happened rather often! But this is perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6NPq_kPSUM

And here's an extended version where Picard convinces one of the characters that he is not a god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2tQ7V2oCTs


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on July 28, 2014, 11:15:23 AM
I just rewatched episode 25 of season 6, The Inner Light. The best episode ever imho. Unbelievably touching.

That was Season 5, not Season 6.

And I've always thought that DS9's "The Visitor" makes for an interesting companion piece to "The Inner Light".


People constantly put "Hard Time" up as the perfect counterpoint to "The Inner Light."

I think if you're going to watch DS9, you can still skip the majority of the arcs and see some great episodes. "Duet," "Far Beyond the Stars," "Past Tense," "The Visitor," and "In the Pale Moonlight" work completely fine without background on the Dominion War.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 28, 2014, 01:36:12 PM
I think if you're going to watch DS9, you can still skip the majority of the arcs and see some great episodes. "Duet," "Far Beyond the Stars," "Past Tense," "The Visitor," and "In the Pale Moonlight" work completely fine without background on the Dominion War.

With the possible exception of "In the Pale Moonlight", of course. ;)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on July 28, 2014, 06:15:40 PM
I think if you're going to watch DS9, you can still skip the majority of the arcs and see some great episodes. "Duet," "Far Beyond the Stars," "Past Tense," "The Visitor," and "In the Pale Moonlight" work completely fine without background on the Dominion War.

With the possible exception of "In the Pale Moonlight", of course. ;)

Okay, well, granted it is a big driving force in the episode but the narrative doesn't suffer much as long as you know that there's a war and lots of people are dying.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on July 29, 2014, 01:45:29 AM
I liked Behr as a showrunner, but usually wasn't all that into the big arc episodes that he wrote.  The arc episodes that he *didn't* write, like "Improbable Cause"/"The Die is Cast", "In the Pale Moonlight", etc., usually turned out better.

IMHO, Peter Allan Fields was the best writer DS9 had in the early years, while Ron Moore was the best they had in the later years.  While the credits don't actually reflect this, my understanding is that Moore did an uncredited rewrite of "In the Pale Moonlight" that changed the story substantially.  The earlier draft had a completely different framing device, set up around Jake investigating Garak for a news story.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Badger on July 29, 2014, 09:11:32 PM
I just rewatched episode 25 of season 6, The Inner Light. The best episode ever imho. Unbelievably touching.

That was Season 5, not Season 6.

And I've always thought that DS9's "The Visitor" makes for an interesting companion piece to "The Inner Light".


Did you slide your glasses up your nose as you typed that? :P


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on August 02, 2014, 08:32:45 AM
I think you'll enjoy Season 3 and beyond a lot. Wait till "The Best of Both Worlds." :P

I'm working on Season 4 now, so yes, I did see that two-parter. That's as good as it gets, particularly the last couple minutes of Part I (http://youtu.be/QvNn_vJy0BM). It definitely lived up to expectations. :)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on August 02, 2014, 02:34:46 PM
I think if you're going to watch DS9, you can still skip the majority of the arcs and see some great episodes. "Duet," "Far Beyond the Stars," "Past Tense," "The Visitor," and "In the Pale Moonlight" work completely fine without background on the Dominion War.

With the possible exception of "In the Pale Moonlight", of course. ;)

Okay, well, granted it is a big driving force in the episode but the narrative doesn't suffer much as long as you know that there's a war and lots of people are dying.

     Indeed, it's an amazing episode standing on its own merits. The context of the Dominion War is just icing on the cake.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on August 08, 2014, 10:05:43 AM
One of my favorite 4th season shows is "Remember Me." It proved that McFadden could indeed act, because if anyone had been unfairly criticized, she had been (Maurice Hurley drummed her out at the close of the 1st season, and when Hurley left or was pushed out himself the first thing they did was bring her back). She did nearly 40% of the script alone and did all her own stunts in "Remember Me."

I also really liked "Brothers," "Clues," and "The Drumhead," but in general the 4th season was superb. "Devil's Due" could have been more. I hope I'm not spoiling it, but she (Ardra) ended up just out to make a buck and have some fun. It was a cute show, but she could have been darker and more malevolent.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on August 08, 2014, 01:02:44 PM
Have you hit the end of Season 4? If not, you're in for an interesting surprise.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on August 09, 2014, 07:14:37 AM
One of my favorite 4th season shows is "Remember Me." It proved that McFadden could indeed act, because if anyone had been unfairly criticized, she had been (Maurice Hurley drummed her out at the close of the 1st season, and when Hurley left or was pushed out himself the first thing they did was bring her back). She did nearly 40% of the script alone and did all her own stunts in "Remember Me."

Yeah, that's definitely been one of the best episodes of the season, where she definitely shined. It seems she's really been developing as a character on her own in Season 4, which was lacking in S1 and sub-par in S3. It's very obvious now that that was a result of the writing. (I did think that was odd because Pulaski in S2 seemed to have developed much faster in just her one season. And don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of both CMOs.)

As for where I'm at in the series right now, the last episode I watched was Night Terrors (Episode 17), which I thought was a pretty good episode. As noted above, Remember Me was an excellent episode. Reunion was another really good one as well. You'd have a really hard time not sympathizing with Worf in that one.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on August 19, 2014, 09:36:38 PM
On a personal note, I just noticed on the Facebook Star Trek page that they posted a photo of Jonathan Frakes now next to a photo from him during the show's run for his birthday. My God he's gotten along in years. Even in 2004, he still reasonably passed as being the same age as he was in TNG, now he looks like Dr. Seuss.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on August 20, 2014, 09:44:18 AM
Picture of Jonathan Frakes directing a recent episode of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.:

()

It's probably the beard, but he actually reminds a bit of George Lucas.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on August 20, 2014, 10:04:13 AM
That's Frakes? Wow. Showing his age, he is! Might be the glasses too.

With regard to the 5th Season, "Darmok" is widely considered to be objectively one of the best shows of the series. It's beloved by pretty much everybody. The episode contains a very egregious effects blooper, though - see if you catch it! Sadly, that's the only appearance of the Children of Tama. I also like "Cost of Living" very much, "The Perfect Mate," "Cause and Affect," and a few others.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Tender Branson on August 20, 2014, 10:04:41 AM


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on August 20, 2014, 10:22:19 AM
When 62 years old you reach, look as good, you will not.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Badger on August 20, 2014, 06:12:25 PM

Wrong franchise, Yoda.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 22, 2014, 01:53:52 PM
I've finished season 1, and I quite liked it. :) It's obviously pretty goofy (embarrassingly so in the first episodes) but still viewable and a few gimmicks are even genuinely enjoyable. The plots are still a bit basic, but some are truly excellent at the conceptual level (Justice, Hide And Q, Datalore, Heart of Glory, The Arsenal of Freedom, Symbiosis). Some are godawful obviously ("Code of Honor", oh pleeeeeeeeeeeease) and some are underexploited (I was really interested in seeing more of that matriarchal society in Angel One), but they can easily be skipped to only keep in mind the most worthwhile ones.

The characters are fine too. Picard is pure awesomeness obviously (I <3 Patrick Stewart). He can be extremely irritating (like his ridiculous Prime Directive integralism... I thought the P.D. was only there for Enterprise captains to violate it :P) but that's part of what makes him a well built character. Data is also EXCELLENT, by far the most interesting member of the crew. Crusher, Troy and Worf are both well-built characters who find their own role in the plots. I'll always regret they didn't develop Yar more before killing her off, because her character definitely had the potential to be a great addition - despite their professed egalitarian premise the writers seemed to remain caught in 80s gender roles to some level. Geordi also needs some development, but he has time for it. Finally, I have to say I don't get the hate on Wesley I've seen both here and on TV Tropes. I was expecting much worse from a teen in a somewhat goofy 80s show - in fact, he often contributes a good deal to the plot and is rarely acting immaturely or being clueless about everything. He's not really necessary to the show, but I fail to see how he would be a nuisance either.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 23, 2014, 03:30:12 AM
Just realized I didn't even mention Riker. :P Anyway, he's all right, maybe a bit generic so far, but I'm sure he has time to develop.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on August 23, 2014, 03:42:39 AM
I was expecting much worse from a teen in a somewhat goofy 80s show - in fact, he often contributes a good deal to the plot and is rarely acting immaturely or being clueless about everything.

Wasn't a frequent criticism of Wesley that he seemed a bit too perfect (/lacked any flaws) and happened to save the day while the rest of the crew looked incompetent?

Of course, that only applied to Season 1 & 2 Wesley, because he was increasingly depicted as a flawed character, starting with the Season 3 opener ("Evolution"). Not to mention what happened with him after he entered the Academy...


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Tender Branson on August 23, 2014, 03:51:40 AM
Wesley is sometimes naive though, for example in that episode about that virtual-reality game which Riker brings back from Risa and Wesley says: "Why would anyone take drugs ? I don't understand this."


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 23, 2014, 04:26:17 AM
I was expecting much worse from a teen in a somewhat goofy 80s show - in fact, he often contributes a good deal to the plot and is rarely acting immaturely or being clueless about everything.

Wasn't a frequent criticism of Wesley that he seemed a bit too perfect (/lacked any flaws) and happened to save the day while the rest of the crew looked incompetent?

Of course, that only applied to Season 1 & 2 Wesley, because he was increasingly depicted as a flawed character, starting with the Season 3 opener ("Evolution"). Not to mention what happened with him after he entered the Academy...

Yeah, it's true that he seemed a bit too smart and competent at times, but there are only a few episode plots which are really solved by him. And besides, the "immature self-centered teen" has become such a cliché nowadays that I find it refreshing to see a young character who actually isn't an idiot or a douchebag. But I can see why he can be annoying.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on August 23, 2014, 07:47:11 AM
Keep in mind, many fans hated the idea of having families on the Enterprise to begin with.  To then have one of the civilians be a teenage genius who helps the crew solve problems, who hasn't spent a day at Starfleet Academy, yet regularly outsmarts seasoned Starfleet officers, is named an "acting Ensign", is allowed to work on the bridge, sometimes sits in on meetings of the senior staff, etc…..ugh.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on August 23, 2014, 07:55:44 AM
Wesley is sometimes naive though, for example in that episode about that virtual-reality game which Riker brings back from Risa and Wesley says: "Why would anyone take drugs ? I don't understand this."

It was even more forced in Season 1's Symbiosis, if you can recall the scene between Yar and Wesley. You have to keep in mind that that was at the height of the "Just Say No" era. (I'd say the message was apparent in The Naked Now as well.)

Have you hit the end of Season 4? If not, you're in for an interesting surprise.

Even including Locutus, for me that probably ranks at the top as far as shocking twists go.

I've finished season 1, and I quite liked it. :)

I'm glad you've started watching and enjoying the show. You don't have to worry about character development; that'll happen over time. Tasha Yar was written out of the show because the actress who player her (Denise Crosby) wanted to quit the show. Season 2 will have some considerable changes: Riker's appearance, Ten-Forward, and the introduction of Dr. Pulaski and Guinan (the latter played excellently by Whoopi Goldberg). Just wait until you get to Q Who.


I've revised my original post, so it now shows my top picks for every episode I've seen thus far. I'm about 2/3 of the way through Season 6. From what I've seen, the show hasn't faltered at all. Sure, there are the occasional lackluster episodes, but they're far outweighed by the great ones and fantastic acting. One thing that's really stuck out to me is how amazingly good the Romulan episodes have been throughout the entire series.

My favourites for Season 5 are pretty explanatory overall. I did notably leave off Unification, mostly because the ending in the second part just didn't work for me. However, I don't have to have seen TOS to appreciate having Spock in an episode of TNG. It was enjoyable to see Spock, not to mention the setting being on Romulus (and seeing Picard and Data in their disguises). I, Borg is up there among the best and most powerful episodes of the series. The fact that they managed to make a Borg likable is downright scary!

For Season 6, Chain of Command was really something else. The scenes of Picard's imprisonment and the dialogue between him and his Cardassian captor make for great, but disturbing television. (On a lighter note, it seems to be at this point that the writers started treating Counselor Troi seriously by finally giving her a Starfleet uniform, which leads to my next my point.) Troi's performance as a Romulan Tal Shiar in Face of the Enemy was just perfect, a clear example of where writing and acting talent met for great results. I loved this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ZGsGiEQ2M) where she actually takes command of the Warbird. So far, I think it's my favourite episode from S6.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on August 23, 2014, 08:14:12 AM
I've revised my original post, so it now shows my top picks for every episode I've seen thus far. I'm about 2/3 of the way through Season 6. From what I've seen, the show hasn't faltered at all.

I liked Season 3 the best.  Seasons 4 and 5 were also quite good, but then Season 6 is when showrunner Michael Piller left to go work on DS9, and (IMHO) the quality dropped off a little that year, and then dropped some more in Season 7.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 23, 2014, 08:46:18 AM
Wesley is sometimes naive though, for example in that episode about that virtual-reality game which Riker brings back from Risa and Wesley says: "Why would anyone take drugs ? I don't understand this."

It was even more forced in Season 1's Symbiosis, if you can recall the scene between Yar and Wesley. You have to keep in mind that that was at the height of the "Just Say No" era. (I'd say the message was apparent in The Naked Now as well.)

Honestly, I found the treatment of drug addiction in Symbiosis to be quite good compared to the "Just Say No" propaganda I've seen everywhere in 80s media. It's refreshing to at least see the issue explored under the light of economic interests and exploitation for once, rather than getting once again the usual petty-bourgeois moralistic tale based on idiotic notions of personal virtue. The plot could have been much improved of course, but it's definitely not your "Just Say No" episode. Obviously, The Naked Now was just worthless padding.


I'm glad you've started watching and enjoying the show. You don't have to worry about character development; that'll happen over time. Tasha Yar was written out of the show because the actress who player her (Denise Crosby) wanted to quit the show. Season 2 will have some considerable changes: Riker's appearance, Ten-Forward, and the introduction of Dr. Pulaski and Guinan (the latter played excellently by Whoopi Goldberg). Just wait until you get to Q Who.

I'm SO looking forward to all this! :D From what you guys are saying about season 3 and on, it's really going to be a unique experience. Q Who is the episode that introduces the Borg right? If so, I really can't wait. I first discovered Star Trek with the First Contact movie (and I was a kid!), so let's just say I really love the Borg. I can't wait to see Picard struggling with them once again, before he became as cynical and desperate as we see him in First contact.

From what I read on TV Tropes, Crosby left because she thought her character didn't have much to do, which is a shame because the premise for it was fairly interesting.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on August 23, 2014, 09:06:19 AM
I'm SO looking forward to all this! :D From what you guys are saying about season 3 and on, it's really going to be a unique experience. Q Who is the episode that introduces the Borg right? If so, I really can't wait. I first discovered Star Trek with the First Contact movie (and I was a kid!), so let's just say I really love the Borg. I can't wait to see Picard struggling with them once again, before he became as cynical and desperate as we see him in First contact.

Yes, "Q Who" is the episode that introduces the Borg.  The finale of Season 1, "The Neutral Zone", introduces this idea that several Federation and Romulan outposts have been destroyed been an unknown enemy.  The original idea was that this would lead into a new arc in the Season 2 premiere that would introduce the Borg.  However, because of the 1988 writer's strike, production on Season 2 was delayed (it's slightly shorter than the other seasons, for those who haven't noticed), and they had to scramble to write the opening episodes in a hurry.  So there wasn't any time to put together any kind of epic story arc.  The introduction of the Borg was delayed until later in Season 2…to "Q Who".

Also, the original concept for the Borg was that they'd be an insectoid race.  But that was deemed too expensive to do on a TV budget, at least in any remotely realistic looking way.  However, the "hive mind" concept from the insect world was retained when they switched it to a race of cyborgs.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on August 23, 2014, 10:37:52 AM
Antonio: Glad you found Next Gen! Haha, "Code of Honor" is objectively horrible, as is "Angel One." While Gene was noted for "progressivism," both of those are pretty regressive, I'd say, and just objectively atrocious social commentary. Unintentionally funny and amusing is the best that can be said about them. "Heart of Glory" was great, though.

Lefty: You're already to "Chain of Command," great. That and "The Outcast" are about as heavy as TNG gets. Lore will return one last time for his coda soon. Won't spoil anything, though, but it's pretty fun with a lot of action. Season 7 has a lot of weird episodes ("Sub Rosa" being tops), but your point about the writing improving shows in "Dark Page." Troi's mother is finally treated seriously!


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 23, 2014, 11:00:47 AM
Antonio: Glad you found Next Gen! Haha, "Code of Honor" is objectively horrible, as is "Angel One." While Gene was noted for "progressivism," both of those are pretty regressive, I'd say, and just objectively atrocious social commentary. Unintentionally funny and amusing is the best that can be said about them. "Heart of Glory" was great, though.

I wouldn't call Angel One horrible, just depressingly half-assed. They got a good premise, had characters that could have made it convincing... and decided that instead of showing what the premise would result in, they decided to just waste minutes talking about stuff we barely or never actually experience onscreen. It's all one giant Informed Attribute-fest. To be honest, I think "sexy suit" idea is the only thing they got right - it looks ridiculous, but that was the point (just like, as any woman will tell you, the amount of fanservice in ads and popular culture looks utterly ridiculous). But even then, they wasted everything by having Riker be just totally fine with it (missing the whole point of depicting a matriarchy) and the president-leader-whatever be just so eager to see what a "strong man" looks like. It's not inherently bad, it's just one giant missed opportunity.

Code of Honor is obviously a disgrace, I actually had a hard time believing they were able to pull that off, even in the 1980s. I read that the guy who was responsible for it got fired soon after though, so I guess the staff got a clue.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on August 24, 2014, 01:31:53 PM
Lefty: You're already to "Chain of Command," great. That and "The Outcast" are about as heavy as TNG gets. Lore will return one last time for his coda soon. Won't spoil anything, though, but it's pretty fun with a lot of action. Season 7 has a lot of weird episodes ("Sub Rosa" being tops), but your point about the writing improving shows in "Dark Page." Troi's mother is finally treated seriously!

Your last point isn't entirely accurate. I thought Lwaxana Troi was a very sympathetic character in Half a Life.

The Outcast actually did surprise me, as TNG has seemed to avoid the issues of sexual identity (or orientation, for that matter). While I found it to be a good episode, I can't say I liked the end result. It did some justice for sexual minorities, but I found the idea that the "therapy" was successful to be quite disturbing. I've read that Jonathan Frakes wanted Soren to be played by a male. That certainly would've made for a more interesting episode. I'll give the show a lot of credit for covering moral issues, but there was a lot of cowardice in its avoidance of LGBT issues. (The Host was another episode that basically failed in that regard. Yes, Dr. Crusher is straight and I wouldn't change that. However, they could have put more time and thought into the aftereffects. That episode pretty much ended when Odan had a new female body. It was definitely a lackluster ending that could've been a lot better.)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: 7,052,770 on August 24, 2014, 05:09:01 PM
Was there any other TV that was nearly as pro-gay as "The Outcast" in the late 1980s? I'm assuming no.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on August 25, 2014, 08:02:55 AM
Was there any other TV that was nearly as pro-gay as "The Outcast" in the late 1980s? I'm assuming no.

"The Outcast" aired in 1992.

L.A. Law was known for regularly doing gay-themed episodes during the late 80s and early 90s, with a total of 11 gay-related episodes, according to these lists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_1980s_American_television_episodes_with_LGBT_themes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_television_episodes_with_LGBT_themes,_1990-1997


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on August 25, 2014, 08:24:53 AM
Was there any other TV that was nearly as pro-gay as "The Outcast" in the late 1980s? I'm assuming no.

"The Outcast" aired in 1992.

L.A. Law was known for regularly doing gay-themed episodes during the late 80s and early 90s, with a total of 11 gay-related episodes, according to these lists:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_1980s_American_television_episodes_with_LGBT_themes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_television_episodes_with_LGBT_themes,_1990-1997

I should watch Quantum Leap's "Running for Honor" again some time.  It aired in January 1992, two months before "The Outcast", and dealt with the "gays in the military" issue that was hot at the time.  I haven't seen it since I was a kid, and don't know how well it holds up today.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on August 25, 2014, 11:50:23 AM
The issues with "The Outcast" were really twofold, IMO.

Unfortunately, Next Gen very blatantly chose to avoid sex and relationships completely. If anyone is sexually attracted to someone else it's because they've caught a virus or something or else suddenly and jarringly decide to abandon their feelings because those feelings might interfere professionally or something. That's one. Then you get "The Outcast," which is about a society or race of people that forces its citizens by policy to be androgynous, more or less - certainly to not identity with a gender. I think that premise, while interesting, invites a misreading because it's so strange. I'm not sure a lot of people would connect that to a gay person, or anyone, feeling like an outcast, because it's so positively bizarre. It would have been much more effective had it been a story about a female or male scientist living in a socially conservative culture and who might buck norms or whatnot, and there's a hint about sexuality. That would have made the point a LOT better, I think.


Your last point isn't entirely accurate. I thought Lwaxana Troi was a very sympathetic character in Half a Life.


Forgot about that one! That's the end of the 4th season - material for her had matured by then, yeah. That was depressing and I think featured a pre-Ro Michelle Forbes. I read that they were so impressed with Forbes that they decided to bring her back, which was a rarity. 


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on September 22, 2014, 02:52:14 PM
Halfay through season 2, it's really living up to expectations. Sure, a couple episodes were obvious padding, but most of them are still captivating and a couple of them are really well thought ("The Measure of a Man" might be the best episode I've seen so far).


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Bacon King on September 22, 2014, 03:30:30 PM
1. The very best episode of any Trek is DS9's "In the Pale Moonlight"

2. My favorite fan theory is that Wesley Crusher is Picard's illegitimate child

3. The fact that TNG is almost purely episodic is not inherently a bad thing


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on February 21, 2015, 06:59:48 PM
I know this is a bump, but I thought it's worth acknowledging that I've finished TNG in terms of the series (and I've altered my original post accordingly). I've also seen three of the four movies, with the exception being Generations.

First Contact was a great movie, period. The Borg worked as a perfect villain and the ending with the actual first contact was awesome. I loved almost every minute of it. The only issue I had with the movie was the introduction of the Borg Queen. Although she was a good plot point for the movie, I felt that was a terrible decision in the larger scheme of things. To me, the Borg should not have a leader, as it is a hive mentality (I'll give a pass for Locutus, as he was meant to be humanity's introduction to the Borg).

Insurrection was an okay movie, but it could've been just as fine as a two-part episode. I really don't have much to say about it. As for Nemesis, I felt it could be so much better than it was. I didn't mind seeing what TNG could become with a super-massive budget, but the plot just failed. It could've been great, but it just wasn't meant to be.

Finishing the series, I'm divided as the best season (though I have no doubt 4-6 are the best). I'm torn between 4 and 6, but I'm probably biased towards the latter. I do think those are the best seasons, but Season 6 had a certain darkness to its better episodes that I really liked. That's why I chose Schisms as my favourite episode from that season, although Frame of Mind and Timescape were close second choices. They were pretty much full of very enjoyable mindf-cks. The season did end quite well with a Borg episode, but it didn't quite follow through with the second part.

As for Season 7, the episodes were really quite erratic. There were obvious great ones, such as Parallels and the finale All Good Things.... On the other hand, there were some lesser episodes that nonetheless ended up quite good. Attached worked very well in establishing the relationship between Captain Picard and Doctor Crusher, although it might have worked better in an earlier season. I know a lot of people don't like Genesis, but I thought it was pretty enjoyable as an episode in and of itself. The series finale was very good on its own and would have been satisfying on its own were it not for the last movie. There was a certain plot point that I strongly object to most of the way through the movie.

Going forward, I decided to watch the pilots for both DS9 and Voyager. To be honest, neither appealed to me in any strong way. DS9 seems to have the overall stronger cast, but Voyager has a stronger leader in Captain Janeway (who I really liked) despite an overall weaker cast. The DS9 pilot really rubbed me the wrong way with the interaction between Picard and Sisko. (I was excited to see Patrick Stewart as a a guest star, but I felt it was a real blown opportunity when I saw the result.) I did like the intro with the Battle of Wolf 359, but as I said, I really resent the way Captain Picard was treated in the intro to DS9. At this point, I'm strongly considering going towards Voyager over DS9.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on February 21, 2015, 08:18:21 PM
How DS9 disrespects Picard is really the perfect set up for what DS9 turns out to be and is precisely the intent of the episode; Sisko doesn't like Picard, and the lofty values of the Enterprise simply aren't practical in situations where people are stuck dealing with complicated sh**t on a starbase day to day. It's meant to give you a taste of what DS9 as a series shapes up as; it wants to throw the established tone of Star Trek (the lofty idealism and obsession with being by the rulebook) out the window. Over time, DS9 does this incredibly well. (Sisko will also become an incredibly badass leader over the years.)

Even though DS9 starts by disrespecting probably the most popular Trek (sigh) it ends up being the most respectful series of the franchise; due to the structure of DS9's episodes it really dives deeper into a lot of the universe and tells a compelling seasons-long story.

Though if you really are married to the TNG structure I can see how Voyager would immediately strike you as more interesting, since Voyager tried so hard to ape TNG's mojo (so hard, I would argue, that it damages the show's potential super hard) and generally has an episode-to-episode structure just like it.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on February 21, 2015, 09:22:14 PM
I still say Season 3 of TNG was the best.  Interestingly enough, the writing staff in the mid-to-late years of DS9 included quite a few veterans of TNG Season 3 (Behr, Beimler, Moore, Echevarria).


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: 7,052,770 on February 21, 2015, 09:45:36 PM
DS9 is kinda like TNG in that the first 2 seasons aren't as good as seasons 3-6, but I can assure you that's it's almost universally considered to be a far better show than Voyager.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: anvi on February 21, 2015, 10:09:39 PM
Watched TNG when it came out, and love it still.  (For someone who watched the series as it was produced, that picture of Frakes now is mortifying.)

Liked all the seasons.  But, as a former student of AI programming, the episode in Season 2, "The Measure of a Man" is one of the most fascinating 40-some minute stretches of television I've ever seen. 


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on February 22, 2015, 01:52:25 AM
DS9 is kinda like TNG in that the first 2 seasons aren't as good as seasons 3-6...

I liked DS9 Season 2 better than Seasons 3 and 6.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on February 22, 2015, 01:59:59 AM
Season 3 maybe I can understand (although, I dunno, there's a real oversaturation of Bajoran storylines in 2 that just seem dumb), but Seasons 5 & 6 of DS9 are the shining seasons of that show IMO.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on February 22, 2015, 05:49:10 AM
Season 3 maybe I can understand (although, I dunno, there's a real oversaturation of Bajoran storylines in 2 that just seem dumb), but Seasons 5 & 6 of DS9 are the shining seasons of that show IMO.

About half the episodes in the opening 6 of Season 6 were great (although the resolution of that storyline was a silly deus ex machina).  And there were a few other gems throughout the season, like "Far Beyond the Stars" and especially "In the Pale Moonlight", but there were also an awful lot of clunkers, like "Time's Orphan", "The Magnificent Ferengi", and the absolute worst episode of the series, "Profit and Lace".  The season also introduced the Pah-wraiths, who were a highly unnecessary and silly foil for the Prophets.

So yes, I preferred Season 2, when Peter Allan Fields was still writing on the show.  While they're not the *best* episodes of the series, yes, I enjoyed many of those Bajoran politics episodes.

I realize that *now* the mainstream opinion of fandom is that the show got much better after the introductions of The Dominion and Worf, but I'm old enough to remember when the show was in its first run, how there was certainly a faction of fandom back then who thought that this represented a departure from the show's strengths.  Tim Lynch was perhaps the most prominent such person on the interwebs:

http://timlynchreviews.wikia.com/wiki/Season_3_Wrapup

And I guess I'm somewhere in between Lynch and the more "mainstream" view: I probably like Seasons 4 and 5 the best, but after that, I'd probably go with 2.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 22, 2015, 06:29:12 AM
And there were a few other gems throughout the season, like "Far Beyond the Stars" and especially "In the Pale Moonlight", but there were also an awful lot of clunkers, like "Time's Orphan", "The Magnificent Ferengi", and the absolute worst episode of the series, "Profit and Lace".

Personally, I thought that "The Magnificent Ferengi" was hilarious.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on February 22, 2015, 06:43:59 AM
First Contact was a great movie, period. The Borg worked as a perfect villain and the ending with the actual first contact was awesome. I loved almost every minute of it. The only issue I had with the movie was the introduction of the Borg Queen. Although she was a good plot point for the movie, I felt that was a terrible decision in the larger scheme of things. To me, the Borg should not have a leader, as it is a hive mentality (I'll give a pass for Locutus, as he was meant to be humanity's introduction to the Borg).

Yeah, First Contact was fantastic. It's actually the first thing I've ever seen about Star Trek, and it sure left a strong impression (and it gets even better when you grow up). The Borg are some of the greatest scifi villiains ever conceived. Though yeah, I agree that I could have done without the Borg Queen.

Generations has several dumb moments, a plot that doesn't entirely make sense, and an ending that pissed off a lot of people, but personally I still found it enjoyable. That's probably because I don't have an emotional connection to TOS and its characters - so if you do have one, consider yourself warned. :P

I still have to watch Insurrection and Nemesis, though I'll probably skip the former seeing how everybody seems to consider it utterly forgettable.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on February 22, 2015, 07:28:38 AM
Maybe the best TNG episode is "Inheritance" from season 7. Loved that, Data became my favorite character by far with that.

Also, IMO, Insurrection is much better than Nemesis. Fans often criticize the former for not telling a Dominion War storyline, but honestly I think that speaks to Paramount's lack of confidence in DS9, plus they wanted to reach a larger audience, and in that sense Insurrection is effective. It's a trouble-in-Eden story. And Picard takes one of his strong moral stands, so it is actually very TNG-ish. I kind of like it.

In the end, I think the Original Series plus TNG did for me about all Trek could do (I guess I like Gene's vision a lot). Voyager to me just tried so hard to be cool, but was too repetitive and the quality writing just wasn't there. DS9 was too dark and then got into mysticism as I recall, kind of its own sci-fi series, really.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mechaman on February 22, 2015, 10:20:19 AM
Maybe the best TNG episode is "Inheritance" from season 7. Loved that, Data became my favorite character by far with that.

Also, IMO, Insurrection is much better than Nemesis. Fans often criticize the former for not telling a Dominion War storyline, but honestly I think that speaks to Paramount's lack of confidence in DS9, plus they wanted to reach a larger audience, and in that sense Insurrection is effective. It's a trouble-in-Eden story. And Picard takes one of his strong moral stands, so it is actually very TNG-ish. I kind of like it.

In the end, I think the Original Series plus TNG did for me about all Trek could do (I guess I like Gene's vision a lot). Voyager to me just tried so hard to be cool, but was too repetitive and the quality writing just wasn't there. DS9 was too dark and then got into mysticism as I recall, kind of its own sci-fi series, really.

Just read this post.  A+.

I am rewatching TNG.  Right now I am at Season 4 (I think I'm about  midway through), but I'll make a note to watch out for that episode when I come across it.  The one thing I remember about TNG is that it was one of those rare series that actually gets better in the later seasons.  Granted, that might just be because of the turmoil of the first two seasons (where do we begin?) that sort of made Season 3 sort  of a "make it or break it" season for many.  Some lament the axing out of Tasha Yar as a regular series character, but Worf really is a much stronger character  to fill in the role of a Chief of Security and I felt that there really wasn't much future potential for Yar anyways.  Doctor Pulaski wasn't absolutely terrible, but I did not feel any sort of interest in her story.  Really, I think it revealed that the problem in Season One with Dr. Crusher was that she was written way too simplistically (they way overdid the sexual tension between her and the Captain).  It seems like once they gave Gates McFadden  something to work with she was able to turn Dr. Crusher into one of the moral pillars of the crew (if that is an appropriate phrase to use here) as opposed to just a random late thirties/early forties female doctor who was thrown into the show just to serve as the captain's love interest.

And yeah my favorite character is also Data.  I kind of like the whole "anti-Spock" nature of the Android who knows everything except how to be human.  Really, in a way Data's attempts to emulate/understand human behavior/emotions/what have you are actually him furthering a quest for understanding.  Yes, the Android does know many things, but the more I watch the series it seems that he starts out not truly understanding a great many things.  Arguably the show shows that there is a dimension to feelings that can't be ascertained by mere knowledge and fact.

And in regards to Insurrection, I myself found it pretty decent (given that it was a Star Trek film, back then one typically didn't go to one of those expecting a life changing Academy Award worthy performance).  I don't get some of the more extreme hate it gets.  Hell, Patrick Stewart's performance in Insurrection alone makes it miles better than Nemesis, that WTFfest that was The Final Frontier, the snoozefest that was the first movie, and the Special Effects Driven Porn (SEDP) of the latest two.  It is at least as good as Generations (your mileage may vary on this, I actually kind of liked it for some reason (except for the ultra dark lighting in Picard's Ready Room, seriously WTF), imo.  And maybe I'm a little bit biased here (I am not the hugest fan of Deep Space Nine, precisely for the reasons you articulated), but I think the last thing a Star Trek movie needed in 1998 was an hour and fifty minutes rehash of YET ANOTHER DOMINION STORYLINE.  I mean, DS9 is not a horrible show; but it's themes always seemed a little too dark for a regular Star Trek series (again, I am also a huge fan of the original vision).  It was good from a "serial" perspective (a long lasting story arc extending through SEASONS OF EPISODES), but from a "I just want to see a ship fly through space combined with a strongly delivered moral message at the end of the episode" perspective I'm not a fan.

I watched Voyager a few times.  It seems okay.  I kind of liked the idea of them being in a largely uncharted part of the galaxy bit, but yeah other than that it seems like an overly PC (god I feel like a dirty racist Bircher saying that) pastel hewed attempt at trying to be "way too cool, dudes" tv show.  Maybe my opinion will change when I get through Season Two but so far not really impressed.

But yes, spoiler alert Mecha has watched Star Trek.  Too many times in fact.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: 7,052,770 on February 22, 2015, 11:23:12 AM
Season 3 does have two of the worst episodes of the series -- Meridian and Distant Voices, which were both dumb and boring, so they brings down the average.

I actually liked "Sacrifice of Angels" a lot and never really considered it a deus ex machina. The Prophets tell Sisko they will exact a penance in exchange for their help, and that plot comes up again later in the show.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on February 22, 2015, 04:57:53 PM
Maybe the best TNG episode is "Inheritance" from season 7. Loved that, Data became my favorite character by far with that.

Also, IMO, Insurrection is much better than Nemesis. Fans often criticize the former for not telling a Dominion War storyline, but honestly I think that speaks to Paramount's lack of confidence in DS9, plus they wanted to reach a larger audience, and in that sense Insurrection is effective. It's a trouble-in-Eden story. And Picard takes one of his strong moral stands, so it is actually very TNG-ish. I kind of like it.

In the end, I think the Original Series plus TNG did for me about all Trek could do (I guess I like Gene's vision a lot). Voyager to me just tried so hard to be cool, but was too repetitive and the quality writing just wasn't there. DS9 was too dark and then got into mysticism as I recall, kind of its own sci-fi series, really.

Just read this post.  A+.

I am rewatching TNG.  Right now I am at Season 4 (I think I'm about  midway through), but I'll make a note to watch out for that episode when I come across it.  The one thing I remember about TNG is that it was one of those rare series that actually gets better in the later seasons.  Granted, that might just be because of the turmoil of the first two seasons (where do we begin?) that sort of made Season 3 sort  of a "make it or break it" season for many.  Some lament the axing out of Tasha Yar as a regular series character, but Worf really is a much stronger character  to fill in the role of a Chief of Security and I felt that there really wasn't much future potential for Yar anyways.  Doctor Pulaski wasn't absolutely terrible, but I did not feel any sort of interest in her story.  Really, I think it revealed that the problem in Season One with Dr. Crusher was that she was written way too simplistically (they way overdid the sexual tension between her and the Captain).  It seems like once they gave Gates McFadden  something to work with she was able to turn Dr. Crusher into one of the moral pillars of the crew (if that is an appropriate phrase to use here) as opposed to just a random late thirties/early forties female doctor who was thrown into the show just to serve as the captain's love interest.

And yeah my favorite character is also Data.  I kind of like the whole "anti-Spock" nature of the Android who knows everything except how to be human.  Really, in a way Data's attempts to emulate/understand human behavior/emotions/what have you are actually him furthering a quest for understanding.  Yes, the Android does know many things, but the more I watch the series it seems that he starts out not truly understanding a great many things.  Arguably the show shows that there is a dimension to feelings that can't be ascertained by mere knowledge and fact.

And in regards to Insurrection, I myself found it pretty decent (given that it was a Star Trek film, back then one typically didn't go to one of those expecting a life changing Academy Award worthy performance).  I don't get some of the more extreme hate it gets.  Hell, Patrick Stewart's performance in Insurrection alone makes it miles better than Nemesis, that WTFfest that was The Final Frontier, the snoozefest that was the first movie, and the Special Effects Driven Porn (SEDP) of the latest two.  It is at least as good as Generations (your mileage may vary on this, I actually kind of liked it for some reason (except for the ultra dark lighting in Picard's Ready Room, seriously WTF), imo.  And maybe I'm a little bit biased here (I am not the hugest fan of Deep Space Nine, precisely for the reasons you articulated), but I think the last thing a Star Trek movie needed in 1998 was an hour and fifty minutes rehash of YET ANOTHER DOMINION STORYLINE.  I mean, DS9 is not a horrible show; but it's themes always seemed a little too dark for a regular Star Trek series (again, I am also a huge fan of the original vision).  It was good from a "serial" perspective (a long lasting story arc extending through SEASONS OF EPISODES), but from a "I just want to see a ship fly through space combined with a strongly delivered moral message at the end of the episode" perspective I'm not a fan.

Haha, thanks! It's cool that there's some Trek fandom here, and yep, I agree with your observations!

I like Generations - not great but good, and good grief, I noticed how dark much of the lighting was as well! It was really jarring. Maybe to make it look like a movie because season 7 ended, they shot the movie, and it was out in the Fall that year.

What I think worked so well with TNG is, look who was coming in the door everyday: Stewart, Spiner, Dorn (who also was great), and they all had ideas for things, especially when the cast started directing shows. I still have a hardcopy of the Companion, which in a couple spots speaks to that. The cast of TNG was simply awesome.

Early on, Tasha was kind of extraneous, yeah. LaForge settled into his spot, Worf settled into his spot (there was a lot of overlap here early), and it just left Tasha kind of out.

The highlighted sentence is right on, I think. DS9 was cool, but it definitely was its thing with its audience.

The prequels have left a lot to be desired for me as well. I guess both Frakes and Dorn have pitched ideas for a TNG era reboot, one that would focus on Worf, another on Captain Riker, but it doesn't sound like either has much chance. It would depend on who would be running it, IMO.

Gene's views on a host of issues mesh with mine, and I think when it got away from that it was watchable but didn't do anything for me.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 24, 2015, 02:22:51 PM
Season 1 - and Season 2 to a lesser extent as well - of TNG were served with a big block of cheese and some corn too. They have their entertainment value for that reason alone ("Justice", "Angel One" anyone? :P ).

It was with Season 3 that the show suddenly become a serious drama... sort of L.A. Law... in Space!, to compare it with a contemporary non-SF show which was also critically acclaimed at the time due to its strong writing and exploration of social issues.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on February 25, 2015, 05:33:08 AM
Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin. ;)

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed. :)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on February 25, 2015, 06:11:27 AM
Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

Yeah, as noted earlier, Season 2 was the shortest because there was a writer's strike at the beginning of the year, thus delaying production.  By the time they got to the end, they only had a few days left in which to film the season finale, and so we got a clip show.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Deus Naturae on February 25, 2015, 11:36:33 PM
Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin. ;)

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed. :)
Was that the one with the evil bugs that latched onto people and mind-controlled them (or was that the season 1 finale?) and had a plan to take over the Federation? I always found it funny how they never followed up on that plotline.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 26, 2015, 01:36:02 AM
Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin. ;)

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed. :)
Was that the one with the evil bugs that latched onto people and mind-controlled them (or was that the season 1 finale?) and had a plan to take over the Federation? I always found it funny how they never followed up on that plotline.

The bugs were the penultimate episode of season 1 and were a hastily conceived means of ending a storyline that Roddenberry vetoed about a potential coup within Starfleet by having it be due to an alien parasite.  Roddenberry's insistence that the Federation be perfect was a major weakness of TNG's first season.  The Borg, who were hinted at in the season 1 finale, proved to be the principal villain for TNG and once established, there was no need to revisit the bugs.  There had been some thought to making the bugs be agents of the Borg, but that was at the stage where the Borg were going to be an insectoid race rather than the cyborgs we came to love and fear.  Once the Borg were cyborgs, it wasn't possible to tie the two together and there was no role the bugs could play that the Borg couldn't do at least as well.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on February 26, 2015, 06:05:13 AM
Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin. ;)

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed. :)
Was that the one with the evil bugs that latched onto people and mind-controlled them (or was that the season 1 finale?) and had a plan to take over the Federation? I always found it funny how they never followed up on that plotline.

No, it was the one where 90% of the episode consists of replaying scenes of previous episodes where Riker gets in trouble.

I actually enjoyed the one with alien bugs (though the story would certainly have been a lot more solid if it was an actual coup by Starfleet's high command).


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on February 26, 2015, 11:32:17 AM
Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin. ;)

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed. :)
Was that the one with the evil bugs that latched onto people and mind-controlled them (or was that the season 1 finale?) and had a plan to take over the Federation? I always found it funny how they never followed up on that plotline.

No, it was the one where 90% of the episode consists of replaying scenes of previous episodes where Riker gets in trouble.

Shades of Gray (there's a MacGyver episode like that, btw). If they're going to do flashbacks, I think it should at least be new stuff. It was weak. But Maurice Hurley wrote that one basically as he was packing up his office to leave, lol. There was a big turnover after season 2, Gene backed off a bit, and new people came in with a fresh perspective to go alongside the old. I think that helped the show a lot.

I also liked the one about the bugs.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 26, 2015, 04:54:31 PM
Gene only backed off because of his stroke.  If he'd stayed healthy I doubt TNG would have lasted seven seasons.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Gass3268 on February 27, 2015, 12:24:47 PM
Leonard Nimoy passes away at the age of 83 :( (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/arts/television/leonard-nimoy-spock-of-star-trek-dies-at-83.html?_r=0)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on February 27, 2015, 03:48:53 PM
Though if you really are married to the TNG structure I can see how Voyager would immediately strike you as more interesting, since Voyager tried so hard to ape TNG's mojo (so hard, I would argue, that it damages the show's potential super hard) and generally has an episode-to-episode structure just like it.

For me, that just was not the way to get me interesting in the show. Going into any other series, I don't have the expectation that anything will be as good as TNG, so maybe my expectations are set different from others. A few episodes into each, I do like Voyager better than DS9. I feel like the premise is set closer to that of TNG's, which is what I'm looking for right now. I'm not understanding the hatred a lot of people have for it.

I do intend to get around the entire series over time, though I don't necessarily have to watch one chunk at a time. Incidentally, I was watching some clips of TOS last night. Before, I'd thought it might have been too dated (and it certainly is to certain extent), but it does seem a lot more appealing now that I've seen some. I watched TNG all the way through without watching any of the other series. Perhaps, now, I might just jump around a bit between series. (Of course, that'll end up taking a lot more time to finish.)

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin. ;)

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

Q Who is easily the best episode from season 2 and one of the best of entire show. But yes, you're getting into the really good stuff now. You're going to love the finale for season 3 (and premiere for season 4), which I think many people consider to be the best episode(s) of the entire series. Patrick Stewart is amazing and it really is no coincidence that most of the episodes considered the best are centred around Captain Picard.

I'd also say not to discount Insurrection. The title is overly dramatic for the content and oversells it, but it was enjoyable. Even if you're not going for completion, I'd still say to watch it, but wait until you've finished the regular series.

Really, I think it revealed that the problem in Season One with Dr. Crusher was that she was written way too simplistically (they way overdid the sexual tension between her and the Captain).  It seems like once they gave Gates McFadden  something to work with she was able to turn Dr. Crusher into one of the moral pillars of the crew (if that is an appropriate phrase to use here) as opposed to just a random late thirties/early forties female doctor who was thrown into the show just to serve as the captain's love interest.

I couldn't agree more. Remember Me is one of my personal favourites from season 4 and her performance was great. I think you can really see one's talent when you centre an episode such as that around one person. I was also a big fan of Attached from season 7, particularly for the scenes with Captain Picard and Dr. Crusher. That was clearly the kind of episode that showed how the show matured from its first season, as that episode would have been radically different and no doubt much worse if it were in season 1.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on June 14, 2015, 05:23:21 PM
I'm halfway through Season 3 now, and I can definitely see that it's getting better. "The Survivors" was truly amazing, it's my new favorite now. It really knew how to build up an atmosphere of mystery and uneasiness, and the final reveal really brings shudders. "The Ensigns of Command" (aka "Data learns to play politics"), "Who Watches the Watchers" and "The Defector" were also excellent. Most of the others were also solid. I'm really excited about what's up next! :)

Though I'm a bit disappointed that the Borg haven't made their second appearance yet. I know the season finale is the famous two-parter that features them, but I though they would appear at least once between "Q Who" and then...


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on June 14, 2015, 08:15:37 PM
Though I'm a bit disappointed that the Borg haven't made their second appearance yet. I know the season finale is the famous two-parter that features them, but I though they would appear at least once between "Q Who" and then...

The Borg episodes of TNG generally went overbudget and overtime.  While they were popular, the mechanics of making them ensured they would be special episodes rather than regular ones.  It wasn't until CGI reach the point of making it practical to do Borg episodes for Star Trek: V'ger that it became possible for them to be used more often than they were in TNG.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 03, 2015, 01:37:28 PM
Just saw The Best of Both Worlds. Yup, the Borg really rule. Easily one of the coolest alien foes in the history of SciFi. The concept is really clever, and, despite the still lacking special effect, it's executed to a terrifying effect. Every time you hear "resistance is futile" or "X is irrelevant" it will bring chills to your spine. :P And it was great to see the team struggle to work without their captain, with stakes as high as the fate of Earth itself. I actually really liked Riker in the role of captain, even though I never was a fan of his (nothing against him, I just don't find him as interesting as Data or Worf). I can see why this episode is so liked, and I'm glad I finally got to see what is essentially the prequel to the amazing First Contact.

The second part of season 3 has some other great episodes. Sins of the Father really struck me for the surprisingly dark ending, which really clashes with the spirit of the series but conveys a very good message (corruption exists in every society) and is very powerful emotionally. Yesterday's Enterprise was also fascinating, as well-crafted "alternate reality" scenarios always are, plus it was nice to see Tasha Yar back. Hollow Pursuits creeped me out a bit for the way it explored the more dangerous potentialities of the holodeck (and thankfully without resorting to yet another malfunction :P). If people today have already started living in a fantasy world due to videogames and the internet, just imagine how bad it will get once we reach this technology. I also loved The Most Toys, because Data is the best.

On the other hand, can we please stop throwing a Ferengi in every other episode? They are so f**king annoying, who thought it was a good idea to have these clowns as recurring antagonists in a supposedly serious show? ::)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Tender Branson on August 03, 2015, 01:54:11 PM
How can you not like the Ferengi ?

They are one of the main ingredients that make the Star Trek soup taste good ;)

Even though they are a bunch of weird capitalist cowards, I like their eccentric behaviour and Quarks humour. Something like a mix of Donald Trump and the Taliban (just without the Burka, they like their women naked - as we know).


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 03, 2015, 02:07:01 PM
I don't mind the concept of an ultra-capitalist alien society (using alien societies to represents the extremes of human behavior is often what Star Trek does best), but couldn't they be at least a little bit less cartoonish? It's impossible to take them seriously even when they actually happen to be in a threatening position in the episode. And besides, it's utterly ridiculous that the Federation and the Enterprise crew continues to grant them favors and allow them to frequently participate in their negotiations even after the Ferengi have tried to screw them over literally every time. At this point, they deserve to be scammed.

BTW, I'm sure Donald Trump would have nothing to object about women being naked, either. :P


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on August 03, 2015, 03:20:05 PM
On the other hand, can we please stop throwing a Ferengi in every other episode? They are so f**king annoying, who thought it was a good idea to have these clowns as recurring antagonists in a supposedly serious show? ::)
Because they were originally supposed to me the main alien antagonists of TNG and it took the writing team time to realize they weren't up to the job. It's why we got the Borg and the Cardassians as replacements.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: 7,052,770 on August 03, 2015, 11:17:25 PM
Ferengi were awful in TNG, but good in DS9.

Well, the DS9 episodes devoted to the Ferengi were mostly pretty bad too, but they were great as side characters.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on August 03, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
I just tried watching Star Trek: Insurrection for the first time since I was 12.  The only nice thing I can say about it is that at least it's not Nemesis.

On the other hand, I also watched Star Trek 4: The Voyage home.  It was my very first Star Trek movie ever (I watched it when I was 11), and I actually enjoyed seeing it again after so many years (tied wit First Contact as my favorite Star Trek Movie). 


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on August 03, 2015, 11:30:07 PM
Season 3 was TNG's peak, IMHO.

"The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1" is great, though I think even better when viewed in the context of the time it was aired.  In 1990, Star Trek had never had a season cliffhanger before.  For that matter, season cliffhangers like that weren't as common on television in general as they would become later in the decade, so it was a bit of a shock to me when there were two minutes left in the hour with no resolution in sight…leading up to "Mr. Worf….fire".

And this was before the world wide web, so most people didn't have access to any filming spoilers in the lead up to Season 4.  All we could do is wait for three months that summer to see how the story ended.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on August 03, 2015, 11:35:08 PM
Here's how I rank ALL the Star Trek Movies:



Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home

Loved the whales, I guess.  Maybe a biased pick due to the fact that it was the first Star Trek movie I ever watched.

Star Trek 8: First Contact

Great space battle, and I liked the scene where Picard mows down the Borg with a Tommy gun.

Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Kahn

Words cannot describe the pain.  It's the film's greatest strength and weakness.   

Star Trek (11th film, JJ abrams)

Good action flick.  I thought the new cast was pretty good.

Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country

I liked how Sulu was a captain in command of his own ship.  The final battle was alright too.  The film also brought some much needed depth to the relationship between the Klingons and the Federation.

Star Trek 12: Into Darkness

Another decent action movie.  Loved Benedict Cumberbatch and that guy who was in Robo Cop.

Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock

Not enough space battle.

Star Trek 1: The Motion picture

Pretty boring, although I can't recall any scenes I particularly disliked.

Star Trek 7: Generations

Data was pretty Jar Jar Binks-esque in the fact that he was annoying and not funny. The only reason this one isn't in the sh*t pile is due to the significance of Kirk's death, I guess.

Star Trek 9: Insurrection

Plot was lame.  The romance between Riker and Troi was awkward and didn't fit in with the plot of the film.

Star Trek 5: The Final Frontier

Almost as comically amusing as Superman 3.

Star Trek 10: Nemesis

Ewwwww!




Green=good, orange=meh, and red= :(.  


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on August 04, 2015, 12:56:03 AM
Nemesis was not worse than the Final Frontier.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on August 04, 2015, 01:17:10 AM
Nemesis was not worse than the Final Frontier.

Although I disagree with your opinion, I respect it.


On another note, what movie did you think was the best? 


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 04, 2015, 01:24:11 AM
On the other hand, can we please stop throwing a Ferengi in every other episode? They are so f**king annoying, who thought it was a good idea to have these clowns as recurring antagonists in a supposedly serious show? ::)
Because they were originally supposed to me the main alien antagonists of TNG and it took the writing team time to realize they weren't up to the job. It's why we got the Borg and the Cardassians as replacements.

By Season 3 it's already pretty clear they're not supposed to be the "main antagonists". The episodes they appear in are almost always the most lighthearted. Which would be fine if there weren't 5-10 of those scattered among the 26.


"The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1" is great, though I think even better when viewed in the context of the time it was aired.  In 1990, Star Trek had never had a season cliffhanger before.  For that matter, season cliffhangers like that weren't as common on television in general as they would become later in the decade, so it was a bit of a shock to me when there were two minutes left in the hour with no resolution in sight…leading up to "Mr. Worf….fire".

Yes, that definitely was one of the best moments in the series. Really added depth to Riker's character.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 04, 2015, 01:32:38 AM
On another note, what movie did you think was the best? 

First Contact is the first Star Trek thing I ever watched, and, even upon rewatching it and trying to remove the nostalgia filter, it's still my favorite film by far. Wrath of Khan was excellent too, though I admit I originally missed some of its depths (watching it as a kid, it's hard to get past those ear slug monstrosities :P). I also really liked The Undiscovered Country for its (somewhat heavy-handed but still pertinent) political commentary.

I have yet to see The Voyage Home (I'll admit that the weird premise is a bit of a turnoff for me...). I've also seen Generations, which I think is fine overall, though a bit slow and surprisingly lighthearted for being the episode when Kirk dies. No interest in seeing 1, 3 and certainly not 5. I'll probably get around to watching Insurrection and Nemesis once I'm done with the show.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on August 04, 2015, 01:41:17 AM
For those who are interested in the behind the scenes stories, you might be interested in the William Shatner-directed ~1 hour doc "Chaos on the Bridge", which examines the rather turbulent behind the scenes shenanigans of TNG's first two seasons.  You can buy or rent it via Vimeo.  It might help you understand why there was basically 100% turnover in writing staff between Seasons 1 and 3.  ;)

Here's the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4UAInrMiT4


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on August 04, 2015, 01:43:10 AM
Antonio if you're willing to give the Ferengi more of a shot, DS9 does a really great job with them. To the point of their society being significantly reformed by the end of it and the Ferengi characters of the cast are amazing standouts. (Slightly spoilery but whatever. It's how they get there that matters.)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on August 04, 2015, 01:46:20 AM
On another note, what movie did you think was the best? 

First Contact is the first Star Trek thing I ever watched, and, even upon rewatching it and trying to remove the nostalgia filter, it's still my favorite film by far. Wrath of Khan was excellent too, though I admit I originally missed some of its depths (watching it as a kid, it's hard to get past those ear slug monstrosities :P). I also really liked The Undiscovered Country for its (somewhat heavy-handed but still pertinent) political commentary.

I too watched Wrath of Kahn when I was young.  The ear creatures are arguably the most terrifying things in Star Trek other than the Borg. 


I have yet to see The Voyage Home (I'll admit that the weird premise is a bit of a turnoff for me...). I've also seen Generations, which I think is fine overall, though a bit slow and surprisingly lighthearted for being the episode when Kirk dies. No interest in seeing 1, 3 and certainly not 5. I'll probably get around to watching Insurrection and Nemesis once I'm done with the show.

RIP TONY


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on August 04, 2015, 01:50:50 AM
Antonio if you're willing to give the Ferengi more of a shot, DS9 does a really great job with them. To the point of their society being significantly reformed by the end of it and the Ferengi characters of the cast are amazing standouts. (Slightly spoilery but whatever. It's how they get there that matters.)

I think they could have done a little better.  Remember Moogie?  :P 


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on August 04, 2015, 01:54:27 AM
Quark is a great character, but nearly every DS9 episode that uses Ferengi culture as the focal point of the plot is terrible (IMHO).


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 04, 2015, 04:43:35 AM
I too watched Wrath of Kahn when I was young.  The ear creatures are arguably the most terrifying things in Star Trek other than the Borg.

Yup. It is pretty weird that the few Star Trek stuff I saw in my childhood (First Contact, Wrath of Khan, and also the fairly creepy Voyager pilot) are some of the darkest in the franchise.


Antonio if you're willing to give the Ferengi more of a shot, DS9 does a really great job with them. To the point of their society being significantly reformed by the end of it and the Ferengi characters of the cast are amazing standouts. (Slightly spoilery but whatever. It's how they get there that matters.)

No problem. I'm looking forward to watching DS9 as well, though it probably won't be very soon.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on August 04, 2015, 05:04:59 AM
Does anyone here collect starship models?  I have since I was 12.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on August 04, 2015, 12:00:02 PM
Does anyone here collect starship models?  I have since I was 12.

I did when I was 12. ;)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on August 04, 2015, 04:07:42 PM
The show definitely grows up in the 3rd season and becomes more focused, realistic, etc. "The Enemy" was maybe the first show to illustrate that, yep, there are still problems. I love "Who Watches the Watchers?" and Picard's speech to the woman about superstition and progress was WOW.

I just watched recently "A Matter of Perspective." Very strong, well written, clever episode. "Allegiance" was also very good, I recall.

Yeah, the Ferengi were transitioned over to comedy relief/intergalactic bunglers. DS9 took it to an extreme, but that's DS9. The whole thing was just a big extreme.

"Sins of the Father" is a downer, yeah, but that's only the start of a very good and very interesting arc. On that issue (don't mean to spoil), there be better days ahead for Worf definitely!



Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 04, 2015, 04:26:58 PM
Yeah, those episodes you mention were all excellent. Glad to see Worf will have a chance to get his (and hopefully his father's) honor back eventually - but please don't say more about that. :P


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on August 04, 2015, 09:51:38 PM
Nemesis was not worse than the Final Frontier.

Although I disagree with your opinion, I respect it.


On another note, what movie did you think was the best?  

I'm curious as to why you think that. Sybok and Shinzon were both very contrived but at least we had some good pathos with Data and B4.

Also my personal favorite is First Contact, followed by the Voyage Home. I was just rewatching the Picard rage scene and Alfre Woodard had amazing chemistry with Patrick Stewart. Although, I do think it should've just been Beverly doing her role instead.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on August 04, 2015, 10:52:58 PM
Nemesis was not worse than the Final Frontier.

Although I disagree with your opinion, I respect it.


On another note, what movie did you think was the best?  

I'm curious as to why you think that. Sybok and Shinzon were both very contrived but at least we had some good pathos with Data and B4.


The sex scene where clone Picard tried to telepathically rape Troi was just wrong on so many levels.  Talk about being scarred for life!  :P

Also my personal favorite is First Contact, followed by the Voyage Home. I was just rewatching the Picard rage scene and Alfre Woodard had amazing chemistry with Patrick Stewart. Although, I do think it should've just been Beverly doing her role instead.

Good choices!


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on August 08, 2015, 02:05:44 PM
Yeah, those episodes you mention were all excellent. Glad to see Worf will have a chance to get his (and hopefully his father's) honor back eventually - but please don't say more about that. :P

I don't want to give anything away, but I have a feeling you're really going to like Season 4's Reunion. Now that you're into Season 4, the show does seem to be far more serious and it gets better as a result. And now that you've seen TBBW, for me the final scene stuck out so much. It's the final part of Part II where they play some pretty somber music while Picard sets his tea down and stares out at Earth. To me, that's one of the more subtle, yet most powerful scenes in the show. I've always thought that ending brings an otherwise happy ending into real context of what really just happened.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Silent Hunter on August 08, 2015, 04:48:33 PM
I'm currently working my way through TOS; the reviews are on my blog.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 20, 2015, 04:48:10 PM
Just saw The Voyage Home. It was entertaining, but not nearly as engaging as the other movies I saw. The plot was contrived and never properly explained, and despite the supposedly high stakes, there is little to no actual tension. Most of the movie is spent making fun of the Enterprise Crew (and especially Spock)'s culture shock living in the 80s, or setting up gags related to the way they get around to getting the stuff they need without looking like madmen or criminals. Fortunately, these parts are often pretty funny. Still, I have to give it a meh.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on August 22, 2015, 07:16:32 PM
Personally, I've only seen three Star Trek moves (the TNG movies except Generations). I've always figured that it's be better to see the TOS movies after actually watching TOS. I haven't reached that point yet.

Fwiw, I think it's worth mentioning where I'm at in watching Star Trek. Obviously, as I've already mentioned, I've seen all of TNG and three of the four TNG movies. Despite what I said a few months ago, I went from TNG to Voyager. I've watched about 100 episodes of VOY at this point. I do agree with many that the writing isn't quite up to TNG levels in the early seasons. I actually really like Captain Janeway and I think Kate Mulgrew is a great actress in the role. However, the flaw in the writing I see is that they really weren't sure where they wanted to take her in the early seasons (which at first seemed to be a female Picard). Once you get into late Season 3 and into Season 4, I think the writing gets much better. From what I've watched, episodes like Scorpion and Year of Hell really stand out as some of the best. I think it's fair to say that Voyager has its flaws, but I really think it is quite underrated. (And I think, to a certain extent, a lot has to do with the type of Star Trek episodes you like as a person.)


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on August 22, 2015, 09:35:39 PM
Mulgrew is a phenomenal actress, but her characterization is pretty all over the place for a long time. I remember her talking a lot about this in recent years; the producers of the show kept her performance under an incredibly close eye and she was basically constantly fighting with the writers over how Janeway was portrayed. Notice how her hair styles constantly change? She used to be infuriated by how often the producers kept altering her appearance. By Season 4 they were finally letting her have more control and the writing for most of the characters in general was a lot more even.

Voyager is a lot weaker than, say, DS9, but it's still pretty good. It gets a lot of sh**t for having to put up with so much executive meddling, but I think Voyager has more great episodes than TNG does.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on August 22, 2015, 10:11:54 PM
Not surprisingly, MeTV showed the TOS episode that Yvonne Craig guest starred in tonight, "Whom Gods Destroy".


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 23, 2015, 05:37:34 AM
Personally, I've only seen three Star Trek moves (the TNG movies except Generations). I've always figured that it's be better to see the TOS movies after actually watching TOS. I haven't reached that point yet.

I don't plan on watching TOS, tbh. I might try out one or two episodes some days, but it just strikes me as too "old" and corny to take seriously. Even with TNG, the corniness is just barely tame enough to be enjoyable and not distract me from the substance of the episode.

As for TOS movies, I've now seen all the "good" ones (2, 4 and 6). They're pretty good overall, with Wrath of Khan definitely having the most well-conceived plot and some really memorable scenes ("KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!" aside :P). I also enjoyed The Undiscovered Country, a nice parallel to the events that were occurring at the same time in real-life.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Silent Hunter on August 23, 2015, 09:37:10 AM

I don't plan on watching TOS, tbh. I might try out one or two episodes some days, but it just strikes me as too "old" and corny to take seriously.

Trust me, it isn't that corny. It still holds up very well I've found.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on August 23, 2015, 10:19:04 AM
IMO, the visual effects in The Original Series are so bad by now as to kind of detract. A few years ago there were special editions that seriously upgraded exterior scenes and effects sequences, and I understand they are pretty good. The set designs are wonderfully cheesy and the stories are actually pretty good. I'd recommend a few very good episodes to get a taste of it - "The Immunity Syndrome," "The Galileo Seven," "The Doomsday Machine," "Shore Leave," and a few others. Of course if anyone liked Wrath of Khan, you need to see "Space Seed," which was very well done. TOS is widely regarded as being at its best during its 2nd season, although there are some 1st season gems.

Voyager and DS9 for very different reasons I just can't get into.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on August 23, 2015, 12:18:07 PM
IMO, the visual effects in The Original Series are so bad by now as to kind of detract. A few years ago there were special editions that seriously upgraded exterior scenes and effects sequences, and I understand they are pretty good. The set designs are wonderfully cheesy and the stories are actually pretty good. I'd recommend a few very good episodes to get a taste of it - "The Immunity Syndrome," "The Galileo Seven," "The Doomsday Machine," "Shore Leave," and a few others. Of course if anyone liked Wrath of Khan, you need to see "Space Seed," which was very well done. TOS is widely regarded as being at its best during its 2nd season, although there are some 1st season gems.

Sure, I'll have a look at those some day.

Not until I still have 4 seasons of TNG and 7 of DS9 to catch up with, though. :P


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on August 23, 2015, 02:23:24 PM
Mulgrew is a phenomenal actress, but her characterization is pretty all over the place for a long time. I remember her talking a lot about this in recent years; the producers of the show kept her performance under an incredibly close eye and she was basically constantly fighting with the writers over how Janeway was portrayed. Notice how her hair styles constantly change? She used to be infuriated by how often the producers kept altering her appearance. By Season 4 they were finally letting her have more control and the writing for most of the characters in general was a lot more even.

I'm in almost total agreement with you. However, I always thought Mulgrew's portrayal of Janeway in the early seasons was a result of the writing. The writers didn't know what to do with her, but she always played the role she was written spectacularly. I agree that it wasn't until Season 4 that Captain Janeway's personalty and command style became clear. And yeah, I did notice the seasonal changes with her hair style.

From what I've read (and to the credit of the writers), they wanted a whole season for Year of Hell. Personally, I think that would have worked great. But, unfortunately, the network executives killed the idea. The only credit I've give to the network was the introduction of Seven of Nine. She was obviously supposed to be the new sex appeal object, but she never let herself fall into that caricature. Something definitely changed when Season 4 started (which I think is the best season I've seen in its entirety).


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on August 24, 2015, 08:25:59 AM
Personally, I've only seen three Star Trek moves (the TNG movies except Generations). I've always figured that it's be better to see the TOS movies after actually watching TOS. I haven't reached that point yet.

I don't plan on watching TOS, tbh. I might try out one or two episodes some days, but it just strikes me as too "old" and corny to take seriously. Even with TNG, the corniness is just barely tame enough to be enjoyable and not distract me from the substance of the episode.

As for TOS movies, I've now seen all the "good" ones (2, 4 and 6). They're pretty good overall, with Wrath of Khan definitely having the most well-conceived plot and some really memorable scenes ("KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!" aside :P). I also enjoyed The Undiscovered Country, a nice parallel to the events that were occurring at the same time in real-life.

Originally, I had a similar opinion of TOS. But the show kind of grew on me over time and now I like it as much as TNG or DS9.

Despite the much cited appearance of a female "Number One" in the original pilot episode, TOS often conveyed a horrible view of women (which really could only be prevented when D.C. Fontana or Margaret Armen had written the script :P ). But other than that, the show stands the test of time reasonably well, especially compared to other TV series from the same time period. Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are truly iconic and (most of the time) well-written characters. The aforementioned "special edition" with updated special effects is definitely worth to check out.


Title: Re: Star Trek
Post by: Silent Hunter on August 24, 2015, 11:57:05 AM
It's also worth considering that Uhura and Sulu were very important in the portrayal of people of colour.


Title: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: swky_0rn on April 18, 2016, 09:37:24 PM
Do you like star trek or is it a silly sci fi fanasty?


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Crumpets on April 18, 2016, 09:46:53 PM
I like the original series, but I can't really get into the "advanced" fandom.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on April 18, 2016, 09:51:42 PM
I've been slowly advancing through TNG (currently I'm in the middle of season 4) and I love it. In some respects it hasn't aged very well, but it's still very enjoyable. Really memorable characters.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 19, 2016, 09:02:19 AM
Do you like star trek or is it a silly sci fi fanasty?

'Or'?


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Smith on April 19, 2016, 09:49:48 AM
Never really did it for me. Only the '09 reboot ever really pushed it.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: bagelman on April 19, 2016, 10:18:01 AM
Pretty good, but the movies are often not as good as the TV shows. Yet I never got to watch the TV shows until the original series (why did I say TNG?) was available on YT a while back but I saw all the movies and some were good and others sucked.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Illiniwek on April 19, 2016, 02:22:05 PM
Turned on Next Generation once, and I couldn't take it. Not interested in every trying to watch it.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on April 19, 2016, 03:37:42 PM
The Original - Best Show Ever.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: #TheShadowyAbyss on April 19, 2016, 04:34:22 PM
I like it, but I'm MUCH more of a Star Wars fan than a Star Trek fan...

Yeah I know, two different genres but still.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: DemPGH on April 19, 2016, 10:52:16 PM
The Original Series, The Next Generation, and the movies through Insurrection I love. They are largely character centered mystery stories set in a futuristic, technologically advanced human society which has solved the basic problems we struggle with now. I like the logical, mystery aspect of the shows that I mentioned. I also like that Roddenberry went against the melodramatic dystopian vision that so much of sci-fi embraced. Interestingly, Roddenberry's interest prior to Star Trek being accepted was police procedurals and investigative themed fiction. He basically just did it in a sci-fi setting with Trek, and made his points about human evolution and so on. It's great.

Deep Space Nine and Voyager are just sci-fi/action that was popular in the '90s, totally forgettable.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Why on April 19, 2016, 11:32:22 PM
Do you like star trek or is it a silly sci fi fanasty?

Why not both?


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: angus on April 20, 2016, 07:01:37 AM
I liked it when I was about 8, 9, 10, or 11, but I soon started to notice how cheesy everything was, like the flip number clocks.  (Will there really be 1967 technology in 2267?)  Then Star Trek:  The Motion Picture came out when I was around 12.  I saw it for free in the cinema behind our house in exchange for taking the garbage out for the old custodian that worked there.  He let me in the back door several times under that arrangement.  It wasn't particularly exciting, but I liked how they worked in Voyager 6, and Kirk hadn't become weird and fat yet, and anyway it was a Star Trek movie.  That in itself made it interesting for me.  When I was 16 Star Trek II:  The Wrath of Khan appeared on the scene.  I watched it at a small theater in a small town in northern Minnesota with my cousins, whom I stayed with summers during that period.  I really was fond of Lt. Saavik, Spock's protégé.  (She later played on Cheers and then got really fat and horrible-looking, but in 1982, especially with pointed ears, she was hot.)  I watched that movie several times and enjoyed it, and it made me seek out reruns of Star Trek.

About the time I started college Star Trek:  The Next Generation started playing and I was very excited about it.  Each episode was a little morality play.  Some folks tried to make connections between characters, like, so Data is Spock and Giordi is Scotty, but which one is Kirk?  I said, "it's not like that."  But eventually I started wondering about certain details as well, such as why everyone they met, in every part of the universe, could speak and understand English.  I had several conversations with friends about it and we came to the decision that they might have a universal translator, or that we just needed to suspend our disbelief, in order to perceive the story.  It's like the 1967 technology in the original series.  You just have to put that out of your mind to enjoy it.

I still watch it often enough, and once in a while I catch an episode that I've never seen before.  There's one channel that plays Star Trek episodes regularly, and some days they even have a 24-hour Star Trek marathon, always The Next Generation.  I usually watch those.  I also have "Star Trek" which was the 2009 movie with a new-and-improved sexy, Latino Spock and sexy Latino Uhuru.  That one I like as well, and it did much to develop the characters of Kirk and the rest.  The most recent one, Into Darkness, was a bit weird.  It felt more like a cross between a carnival ride and a brutal firefight.  I look forward to the new installation which should release this summer.



Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: beaver2.0 on April 20, 2016, 10:35:28 AM
Very good.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: DINGO Joe on April 20, 2016, 12:43:17 PM
The original is awesome.  Such an utterly shameless and sexist product of its time and creators.
Everything else has been hit and miss--much more dependent on the quality of the writing (though TNG could sometimes get by on its shamelessness too).


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on April 24, 2016, 02:12:18 AM
Love it, love it, love it. I started watching TNG a bit less than two years ago on Netflix. I started a topic here some time ago. I hope you find it and add your thoughts. I'm thinking about reviving it. Anyway, after I finished TNG, I sampled Voyager and DS9 at the same time. I found Voyager far to my liking after watching TNG, so I went that route. If there's anyone that could stand beside Captain Picard, it's Captain Janeway. A few months ago, I strayed into DS9 and TOS. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up back then, but while some episodes were quite good overall, others had issues due to being quite dated. As for DS9, it took me some time to get over the disrespect they gave to Captain Picard in Emissary. But I watched more and eventually got over it. I always try to stay close to the story line, but I did jump around a bit. I have to say that DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations is one of my favourites, especially since I say the original prior. I haven't touched Enterprise at all right now, but I will say that my favourite pilot episode among them all is Voyager's Caretaker.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Orser67 on April 24, 2016, 04:54:27 AM
I like it, though I never got into the stuff between TNG and the reboot.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: ingemann on April 27, 2016, 03:54:37 PM
I like it, but TNG has not aged well (through it's still a good serie, but many episode doesn't hold up anymore), while Voyager was a disaster even at the time (the less said about Enterprise the better).


Title: Where Should I Start With Star Trek?
Post by: Free Bird on April 30, 2016, 09:34:13 PM
Limited experience, want to get serious. There are so many paths though. Watch TOS and go to the movies? Just watch the "Trilogy?" Next Gen? JJ only?

Where should I start and what should I limit myself to?


Title: Re: Where Should I Start With Star Trek?
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on April 30, 2016, 10:41:48 PM

Start with the original series and then watch the animated series. (Optionally, watch the animated series between the second and third season of the original series.) Next do TNG, skipping the first two seasons. Next do DS9, then Enterprise. If you must, go back and watch the first two seasons of TNG, but by no means watch V'ger unless you absolutely can't help it. Feel free to do the movies, but they are by no means essential Trek.


Title: Re: Where Should I Start With Star Trek?
Post by: politicallefty on May 01, 2016, 02:42:41 AM
I think it depends on what you like. Try out TOS and TNG for a couple episodes each. If you don't find TOS too dated, you might want to start with that. Otherwise, I strongly recommend starting with TNG. After you've finished TNG, either go back to TOS and watch the TOS moves afterwards or just move the TNG movies. There is very limited continuity among the TNG movies. As for what to watch after TNG, I'd recommend trying out both DS9 and VOY. After finishing TNG, I found myself far more drawn to VOY. It's more TNG-based and I'm also a big fan of Kate Mulgrew's portrayal of Captain Janeway. I didn't initially like DS9 myself, due in no small part to the way they treated Captain Picard. As I've begun finishing VOY, I've given DS9 a second chance and I've definitely enjoyed it.

If you like TOS and what it has to offer, I'd say just watch everything in order of air date. See here for order by original air date (http://startreklist.blogspot.com/2011/04/list-of-all-star-trek-episodes-sorted_05.html). I started watching Star Trek in 2014 and I've seen all of TNG and its movies, almost all of Voyager, the majority of DS9, and some of TOS. I have yet to see the TOS movies, most of TOS, TAS, or ENT, so I can't comment on those.


Title: Star Trek V vs Star Wars Episode I
Post by: Mr. Smith on May 03, 2016, 10:01:58 AM
This had to be done.


Title: Re: Star Trek V vs Star Wars Episode I
Post by: DemPGH on May 06, 2016, 07:00:44 PM
Excuse me, I'd just like to ask a question. What does God need with a starship? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9sqkahSziU)

(Star Trek V was hit with a couple of budget slashes, was written around a writer's strike, and suffered because ILM was not available for the effects, btw)

But still, Star Trek V. Good times. :) George Murdock (RIP 2012), who played "God," also turned up on The Next Generation in a fairly memorable role.

I don't know what SW Episode I was even about, to tell you the truth.


Title: Re: Star Trek V vs Star Wars Episode I
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on May 07, 2016, 06:21:42 AM
Both were cringeworthy, but ST V was cringeworthy in a way consistent with the rest of the canon while SW I was not.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Tender Branson on September 03, 2016, 10:48:33 AM
I'm really looking forward to the new CBS series in 2017 (Star Trek: Discovery).

Hopefully this series is more like the original series or TNG, rather than the latest movie.

The "all action, no thoughtful stories" really annoyed me in the last movies.

But based on the early looks, it will likely end up more like the recent movies ... :(


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Slow Learner on September 03, 2016, 11:22:19 AM
City on the Edge of Forever is probably one of the best episodes of any show I've ever seen.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on September 03, 2016, 03:21:48 PM
I'm really looking forward to the new CBS series in 2017 (Star Trek: Discovery).

I'm not. But then unlike you I live where I'd have to purchase yet another streaming service to be able watch it as they are using it to jump start their CBS All Access service.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Enduro on September 03, 2016, 04:44:07 PM
Love the reboot series, not a big fan of all that came before. Although Wrath of Khan is good, and I haven't seen all of the older stuff.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: FairBol on September 04, 2016, 08:18:11 AM
Love Star Trek.  My favorite series is TNG, with DS9 and VOY tied for second.  Wonder of wonders, I have never seen an episode of TAS.  But yeah...I'm a Trekkie.  :)


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: °Leprechaun on September 08, 2016, 03:52:06 PM
Today is the show's 50th birthday.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on September 08, 2016, 10:20:19 PM
     I'm a fan of the older content. I haven't cared for much since Deep Space Nine.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Smith on September 08, 2016, 10:53:59 PM
I enjoy everything before the 90's and I liked '09 and Beyond well enough, I respect Enterprise's later seasons...but the rest of it just sucks.

None of it is good enough to watch regularly and it's hard for me to really remember what goes on because everything gets so bogged down by philosophy and idealism, but a little Bill Shatner or Patrick Stewart goes a long way when I'm in the mood and it's on.





Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on September 09, 2016, 06:44:17 AM
Philosophy and idealism are the best thing about Star Trek. ;)


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on September 11, 2016, 04:45:37 AM
I've been watching some of the Original Series on BBC America over the past couple days. I've already seen a number of TOS episodes on Netflix, although I kind of picked and chose. Sometimes it's really great, but other episodes really show their age.

As for the new series, it sounds a lot more interesting now I know it won't be set in the rebooted universe (I have no interest whatsoever in the rebooted movies). Still, it's another prequel series like Enterprise that invites way too much retcon. They probably should have set it either midway between TOS and TNG or in the 25th century (at least 20+ years after the TNG/DS9/VOY Era).


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on September 11, 2016, 09:49:38 AM
I'm holding out hope that some day they'll make reboot movies for TNG. There's definitely room for expansion of that universe and characters. Picard, Data and Worf are excellent characters, and the Borg are one of the best concept for a villain ever.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: politicallefty on September 18, 2016, 04:22:17 AM
I'm holding out hope that some day they'll make reboot movies for TNG. There's definitely room for expansion of that universe and characters. Picard, Data and Worf are excellent characters, and the Borg are one of the best concept for a villain ever.

[SPOILERS]

First Contact is probably the only TNG movie I can say I really loved. Even with that one though, I thought the introduction of the Borg Queen was a big misstep in terms of developing the Borg. Granted, she was well-played in both the movie and Voyager, but I thought she was too much a separate villain apart from the Borg. The Borg is scary because they are a collective mind, without a leader with which to negotiate. Other than that, I loved the movie.

Generations had several faults that prevent it from being great. They almost went for shock value whenever they could. They killed off Captain Picard's family in the beginning, had the Enterprise D destroyed by a single Klingon Bird-of-Prey, and flippantly killed off Captain Kirk. Insurrection wasn't bad as a plot, but I think it could have easily been a two-parter during the show's original run. I don't know what to say about Nemesis. It left me unmoved, other than my hatred of the ending.

I don't want to see a reboot of the TNG movies. There is no one that can play Captain Picard other than the great Sir Patrick Stewart. Just as having TNG take place decades after TOS, I think they should have a new series that takes place a couple decades after TNG (and its progeny, DS9 and Voyager). Despite the general peace at the end, there would be future possibilities for the Borg and the Dominion. Neither were major threats to the Federation at the end of the 2370s, but their capabilities were not destroyed. The Borg was as strong as ever in the Delta Quadrant and the Dominion was as strong as ever in the Gamma Quadrant. All that changed was that the Dominion negotiated peace and the Borg was prevented from easily moving into the Alpha Quadrant.


Title: Re: Your opinion of Star Trek
Post by: ‼realJohnEwards‼ on September 18, 2016, 09:41:43 PM
this. Ultimate guilty pleasure for me personally, though sadly I haven't watched much lately.


Title: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: °Leprechaun on November 17, 2016, 07:40:39 PM
I like the Borg, Vulcans, Species 8472. How about you?
I'm curious how many votes humans will get.


Title: Re: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: °Leprechaun on November 18, 2016, 06:19:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yRgiXh2fP4


Title: Re: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: angus on November 19, 2016, 05:10:05 PM
humans, followed by klingons and vulcans.  Worf is one of my favorite characters.  Klingon raised Russian.  He's sort of like Obama, an islander of Kenyan descent raised by his white, midwestern grandparents. 

Worf for President 2020.


Title: Re: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: Enduro on November 19, 2016, 05:12:37 PM
I don't really have one.


Title: Re: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: °Leprechaun on November 19, 2016, 08:28:27 PM
7 of 9 is my favorite character


Title: Re: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: FairBol on November 20, 2016, 09:46:31 AM
I've always taken an interest in Klingons, and Vulcans are "fascinating".  Also enjoy the irreverantness (is that a word?) of Ferengi. 

"Never ask when you can take" -- Nog, DS9


Title: Re: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: angus on November 20, 2016, 07:22:51 PM

Do you take a little hand towel to the sofa with you every time she's on?  I can appreciate that.

I interpreted the question a little differently.  


Title: Re: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on November 21, 2016, 03:52:35 AM
The Romulans are very good adversaries. The Dominion was also good but could have been better -- the Cardassians and the Female Changeling make great villains though.


Title: Re: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on November 21, 2016, 03:04:39 PM
Klingons, of course.  The original badasses of Star Trek.


Title: Re: What are your favorite Star Trek species?
Post by: politicallefty on November 27, 2016, 06:56:27 AM
The Romulans are very good adversaries. The Dominion was also good but could have been better -- the Cardassians and the Female Changeling make great villains though.

To be fair, the Dominion wasn't a species, but I would definitely agree that the Founders and the Vorta were quite compelling. The Female Changeling really was quite terrifying, in this clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQEMsTmLh7g) and with her later order basically carrying out what said.

In TNG, I really liked the Romulans as adversaries. And, of course, I've always liked the Borg (apart from the concept of the Borg Queen, despite how well she may have played in the show).


Title: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Tender Branson on January 10, 2017, 02:26:01 PM
There's a new Star Trek series coming out in May called "Star Trek: Discovery".

()

Quote
Set roughly a decade before the events of the original Star Trek series, separate from the timeline of the concurrent feature films, Discovery explores a previously mentioned event from the history of Star Trek while following the crew of the USS Discovery.

Season 1 will have 13 episodes.

How much are you looking forward to it ?


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on January 10, 2017, 03:55:43 PM
     I haven't been a fan of the recent movies, but knowing that this is unrelated to them makes me somewhat more interested. The "previously mentioned event" is also a hell of a hook.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Tender Branson on February 08, 2017, 09:01:12 AM
A new trailer is out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKuZINgyR-c


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: DemPGH on February 08, 2017, 12:11:25 PM
Zero interest. Have not watched any of the "reboot" films about Kirk other than bits and pieces. Not inspired to watch more, don't care.

I've read that both Michael Dorn and Jonathan Frakes have approached pretty much everyone about a Trek series that would pick up the post TNG, DS9, VOY timeline, and they've been turned down. Don't know for sure, but THAT I would positively be interested in. Especially if Dorn and/or Frakes would have anything to do with it.

I think if I get in the mood for a Trek fix I need to give DS9 and Voyager a closer look. I'm familiar enough with both to know what they're about, but a closer look might be warranted.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Mr. Morden on February 08, 2017, 12:29:00 PM
I'm open minded about it, but haven't really been that impressed by anything in the Trek universe since DS9 went off the air in 1999.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Enduro on February 08, 2017, 03:52:07 PM
A little bit, I've got so many other things to watch. I may not get to it in my lifetime.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: 7,052,770 on February 08, 2017, 06:29:38 PM
Extremely. Especially since it's set in the prime universe rather than the Abramsverse


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: angus on February 08, 2017, 07:31:30 PM

I believe that The Kelvin Timeline is the officially-sanctioned, politically correct term.  

That said, I agree that the Prime Timeline is superior, although both are apparently canonical.  

Voted somewhat interested.  I have watched probably every episode of Star Trek and Star Trek:  The Next Generation.  I still watch reruns of those two series regularly, although I'm not a fan of the other franchise programs.  I do enjoy the movies, and have adapted to the Kelvin Timeline, but obviously the Prime Timeline is an easier sell.  

As an aside, we're almost finished with the USS Enterprise (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=255233.msg5447142#msg5447142) that I bought for Christmas.  Just finished step 71 of part 3.  We're probably 3/4 of the way through, but it's careful work.  We may or may not be finished in time for my 50th birthday.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on February 08, 2017, 09:28:27 PM
What actually is the previously-mentioned event? This thing has been delayed for so long we might actualy get to 2250 before this happens.

EDIT: Based on the idea that this is going to be a Klingon-driven plot, I hope the event is the Great Tribble Hunt.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: angus on February 09, 2017, 09:36:45 AM
The OP is titillating.  I suspect that it is an elaborate tease to get us to watch, like when they advertising King of the Hill as "moving" in the summer of 1999 and show a political map of California in the background (in the words "of the" between King and Hill) instead of the usual Texas political map that was usually shown.  It turns out that they were moving to a new day and time.

I'm thinking maybe the Tarsus 4 incident.  Here's a brief historical description from Memory Alpha:

In 2246, an exotic fungus destroyed most of the colony's food supply, leaving the colonists, of which there were eight thousand, in serious danger of starvation. Governor Kodos made a drastic decision: he ordered the deaths of four thousand colonists, so that the other four thousand might live, selecting those to be killed according to his personal theories of eugenics. Supply ships arrived earlier than expected, but too late to save the four thousand people Kodos murdered. All that Earth Forces found of Kodos was a burned body, and he was presumed dead, until his chance discovery on Planet Q twenty years later.

Among the survivors of the Tarsus IV incident were James T. Kirk, Kevin Riley, and Thomas Leighton, who were three of only nine survivors who knew Kodos' face, and who would be able to identify him. In 2266, they were the only three of the original nine eyewitnesses still alive.

In 2328, Tarsus IV was the destination for passengers traveling from Gamma Trianguli VI via commercial transports. Zayra Cabot had traveled on the SS Manoa, Jack Litchfeld had traveled on the SS Kogin, and David Stipes and Lorine Mendell had traveled on the SS Wisconsin.



The episode title was "The Conscience of the King" if you want to try to look it up.  It was on pretty recently, about a week ago, so that's maybe why it is on my mind. 


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 09, 2017, 10:17:25 AM
Option 2.

I'm certainly more interested in it than the Abramsverse films, but in the end it could still suck. Let's wait and see.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Tender Branson on February 13, 2017, 10:28:55 AM
There's a chance that this might be the new Klingons:

()

Could also be another (new) race though ...


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Tender Branson on March 13, 2017, 04:22:56 AM
Jason Isaacs (known for Lucius Malfoy in "Harry Potter") will play the Captain of the Discovery.

()

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2017/03/07/newest-star-trek-captain-jason-isaacs/98858848

Approve.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: 7,052,770 on March 14, 2017, 03:10:05 PM
Is he Garth of Izar?


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 14, 2017, 04:07:10 PM

No, he's "Captain Lorca".


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: angus on March 14, 2017, 04:15:58 PM
Finished it today!  3198 pieces.

Last night it snowed about 12 inches and all three of us had a snow day.  After we got tired of sledding and chunking snowballs at each other, we decided to finish the project we started the day after Christmas.

Behold the USS Enterprise:


()

()



Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Tender Branson on April 02, 2017, 09:55:42 AM
Discovery explores a previously mentioned event from the history of Star Trek while following the crew of the USS Discovery.

It might be the Sheliak and the Grizzellas:

Quote
There is only one significant event in the Trek timeline that occurred in the year 2255: The Treaty of Armens.

Now, you might be asking yourselves why you have never heard of this treaty before. Well, actually most long-time fans have been exposed to this concept before.

During the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode “The Ensigns of Command” Captain Picard and Co. are forced to evacuate the colony on Tau Cygna V. This planet was given away by the Federation decades earlier, as per the treaty.

These bizarre looking aliens are the know as the Sheliak. An extremely xenophobic species from the Shelia star system, who make a point to avoid most other races.

However, a conflict broke out with the Sheliak, due to the aggressive expansion of the Federation.

Viewing humans, and everyone else as ‘creatures’, the Sheliak attempted to remove this ‘scourge’ from the galaxy.

The conflict didn’t last very long, and a final cease-fire was declared with the signing of the Treaty of Armens.

The treaty itself was over 500,000 words long and required almost 400 Federation legal analysts to complete.

Hostilities remained between the two factions for the next several hundred years.

http://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/03/30/star-trek-discovery-treaty-armens

I'm a big fan of the Sheliak.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on April 02, 2017, 01:27:20 PM
Discovery explores a previously mentioned event from the history of Star Trek while following the crew of the USS Discovery.

It might be the Sheliak and the Grizzellas:

Quote
There is only one significant event in the Trek timeline that occurred in the year 2255: The Treaty of Armens.

Now, you might be asking yourselves why you have never heard of this treaty before. Well, actually most long-time fans have been exposed to this concept before.

During the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode “The Ensigns of Command” Captain Picard and Co. are forced to evacuate the colony on Tau Cygna V. This planet was given away by the Federation decades earlier, as per the treaty.

These bizarre looking aliens are the know as the Sheliak. An extremely xenophobic species from the Shelia star system, who make a point to avoid most other races.

However, a conflict broke out with the Sheliak, due to the aggressive expansion of the Federation.

Viewing humans, and everyone else as ‘creatures’, the Sheliak attempted to remove this ‘scourge’ from the galaxy.

The conflict didn’t last very long, and a final cease-fire was declared with the signing of the Treaty of Armens.

The treaty itself was over 500,000 words long and required almost 400 Federation legal analysts to complete.

Hostilities remained between the two factions for the next several hundred years.

http://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/03/30/star-trek-discovery-treaty-armens

I'm a big fan of the Sheliak.

If it were about the Sheliak, what are all those Klingon warrior characters (three, at the last count) doing on the show?


In any case, Rainn Wilson ("The Office") has been cast as Harry Mudd:
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/star-trek-discovery-rainn-wilson-harry-mudd-1202019986/

After Sarek, this is the second previously established character from TOS who will appear on "Discovery".


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: politicallefty on April 02, 2017, 09:03:49 PM
Extremely. Especially since it's set in the prime universe rather than the Abramsverse

I thought I posted to this topic before, but apparently not. I'm someone that's a strict fan of the Prime Universe. Not including TAS, I've probably seen between 90-95% of all Star Trek episodes over the past three years. After the election in November, I decided to immerse myself in ENT, which I had never watched. It had its faults, but it really picked up steam in its last season. It's a shame we couldn't have had 7 seasons of Enterprise to see the Romulan War and the formation and founding of the Federation.

To be honest, I'd rather the next series continue beyond the TNG/DS9/VOY years, but I'll take what I can get.


Title: CBS/Netflix's first "Star Trek Discovery" trailer out !
Post by: Tender Branson on May 18, 2017, 01:53:39 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSGCgA0PqCs

I actually thought it would be far worse. I don't like the design of the "new" or old Klingons, but otherwise it looks OK.


Title: Re: CBS/Netflix's first "Star Trek Discovery" trailer out !
Post by: Tender Branson on May 18, 2017, 02:07:12 AM
Here's a longer, different version of the trailer:

https://twitter.com/startrekcbs/status/864961771685109760

Also, some pictures:

()

()

()

()

Poster:

()


Title: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Tender Branson on May 27, 2017, 10:44:41 AM
Quote
This being the United States in 2017, Internet trolls are accusing “Star Trek: Discovery,” the newest incarnation of the sci-fi franchise, due to début on television in the fall, of white genocide.

The commotion began last week, when the show’s trailer first appeared on YouTube. It opens with a conversation between the two lead characters, a starship captain and her first officer, played by Michelle Yeoh and Sonequa Martin-Green, both women of color.

Very quickly, the comments section was filled with garden-variety Trekkie gripes—the Klingons looked weird, there was too much lens flare, the dialogue was hammy, the uniforms were non-canonical.

Many commenters, though, were clearly appalled by the absence of white men in command positions. “Where is the alpha male that has balls and doesn’t take crap from anyone?” one asked.

“Is everything going to have to have females in every ing thing?” another asked. A third person called Yeoh “a reject from a overseas customer-support line.” A fourth dubbed the show “Star Trek: Feminist Lesbian Edition.”

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/for-alt-right-trolls-star-trek-discovery-is-an-unsafe-space

Discovery will be released in the fall.

The Netflix trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq1f7l8Vq2o

The long-version trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rj4inzcAKk


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on May 27, 2017, 10:47:26 AM
The alt/far-right think it's "white genocide" when the snowflakes melt in spring, too.



Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on May 27, 2017, 10:52:04 AM
     This is an absurd accusation, but I will note that internet trolls saying deplorable things in comment sections is a phenomenon as old as the internet itself.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Maxwell on May 27, 2017, 10:57:54 AM
The alt/far-right think it's "white genocide" when the snowflakes melt in spring, too.



And the word of the day is...


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: MarkD on May 27, 2017, 10:58:58 AM
Glad I'm still near the center, away from the fringes.
I don't watch TV, so I'm going to miss seeing this show.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: This account no longer in use. on May 27, 2017, 11:12:00 AM
Who care


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: 7,052,770 on May 27, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Even better reason to be excited about it.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Technocracy Timmy on May 27, 2017, 11:16:53 AM
This doesn't "sound" like alt right youth, more like typical angry old men.

Alt right youth would complain about interracial dating or Jews far more than just seeing women or people of color on the screen.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: This account no longer in use. on May 27, 2017, 11:18:19 AM
This doesn't "sound" like alt right youth, more like typical angry old men.

Alt right youth would complain about interracial dating or Jews far more than just seeing women or people of color on the screen.

It's happened before. Remember #BoycottStarWarsVII?


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on May 27, 2017, 11:24:08 AM
Do they not know anything about Gene Rodenberry?


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Technocracy Timmy on May 27, 2017, 11:34:14 AM
This doesn't "sound" like alt right youth, more like typical angry old men.

Alt right youth would complain about interracial dating or Jews far more than just seeing women or people of color on the screen.

It's happened before. Remember #BoycottStarWarsVII?

I thought that that was partly 4chan trolls combined with anger at the black character being a potential romantic interest with the white female lead.

I can't keep up with all of their shenanigans anyhow :P


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on May 27, 2017, 01:30:22 PM
()


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: This account no longer in use. on May 27, 2017, 01:44:26 PM
This doesn't "sound" like alt right youth, more like typical angry old men.

Alt right youth would complain about interracial dating or Jews far more than just seeing women or people of color on the screen.

It's happened before. Remember #BoycottStarWarsVII?

I thought that that was partly 4chan trolls combined with anger at the black character being a potential romantic interest with the white female lead.

I can't keep up with all of their shenanigans anyhow :P

I remember when I still believed 4chan was trolling. I wish I still did.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: KingSweden on May 27, 2017, 01:44:50 PM
Do they not know anything about Gene Rodenberry?

Indeed. I recall a Jew, black woman, a Russian (!! Big deal in the 60s) and a gay Asian on the original version


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Unapologetic Chinaperson on May 27, 2017, 02:15:39 PM
Do they not know anything about Gene Rodenberry?

Indeed. I recall a Jew, black woman, a Russian (!! Big deal in the 60s) and a gay Asian on the original version

I wonder what George Takei (said gay Asian, if it weren't obvious) thinks about this.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Sumner 1868 on May 27, 2017, 02:20:23 PM
They shouldn't report on this. It'll only encourage them to keep it up.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Blue3 on May 27, 2017, 02:40:55 PM
I kind of want there to be an actual blockbuster movie about actual white genocide, maybe even title it "White Genocide," where after Kenya's supervirus to kill all white people succeeds there's a new hedonistic globalist paradise of Muslim Gay Orgies while listening to rap music and Obama is revealed as the Second Coming of Jesus and takes his place God-King... and have it make a billion bucks in the theaters... just to watch some heads explode. :D


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Person Man on May 27, 2017, 02:56:24 PM
I kind of want there to be an actual blockbuster movie about actual white genocide, maybe even title it "White Genocide," where after Kenya's supervirus to kill all white people succeeds there's a new hedonistic globalist paradise of Muslim Gay Orgies while listening to rap music and Obama is revealed as the Second Coming of Jesus and takes his place God-King... and have it make a billion bucks in the theaters... just to watch some heads explode. :D
:D


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Neo-JacobitefromNewYork on May 27, 2017, 05:45:16 PM
The subreddit r/Drama hilariously renamed the White Genocide meme to the Mayocide, they like to troll the hell out of the alt-right and r/donald with their promotion of it semi-ironically.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Tender Branson on June 23, 2017, 04:17:04 AM
SMG hits back against the racists who think "Star Trek Discovery" is not white enough:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-diversity

BTW, the release date is September 24.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Frozen Sky Ever Why on June 23, 2017, 06:19:21 AM
These people are ruining the internet. Beyond sick of them. Also, it's insane to protest Star Trek, a show which featured the first interracial kiss on tv, for being diverse.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: President Punxsutawney Phil on June 23, 2017, 06:33:45 AM
Lol the alt right


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Santander on June 23, 2017, 07:40:55 AM
People watch Star Trek?


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: pbrower2a on June 23, 2017, 08:19:00 AM
Do they not know anything about Gene Rodenberry?

Indeed. I recall a Jew, black woman, a Russian (!! Big deal in the 60s) and a gay Asian on the original version

Jewish cast members included William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, and Walter Koenig, and none of them seemed particularly Jewish; if anything, Spock's Vulcan character seemed like a synthesis of Buddhism and Quakerism. (Heck, I thought when I was a kid that William Shatner was a German-American, as the character is from rural Iowa. Now I know that just about any German surname can be 'Jewish'). DeForest Kelley and James Doohan were Celts. George Takei scrupulously stayed in the closet, at least on filmed footage. Nichelle Nichols, of course...  took a male part and did it well.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Chief Justice Keef on June 23, 2017, 08:49:06 AM
I like how the alt-right thinks they're so above "ess-jay-double-yous" identity politics, but the truth is they're fighting the same culture war bulls--t.

Whatever wastes these guys' time the most, I guess.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: pbrower2a on June 23, 2017, 09:48:03 PM
Attending Star Fleet Academy as preparation "to boldly go where nobody has gone before" would overpower so many issues of origin that diversity in Star Fleet would be a banality. The tendency away from racial purity  is already strong. Figure that the Talented Tenth of black people intermarries white people with whom they have much in common by profession, culture, and education. A note to racists -- if white racial purity has an enemy it is not the street thug; it is the highly-talented African-American. And that is only the white-black divide.

Miscegenation is not genocide against the white race. 'Race', which used to be one of the clearest divides among Americans, is becoming much more ambiguous. A hint: the mother of Barack Obama was about 1/16 African-American.  The usual 'line' for 'passing' is about 1/8 black.

As usual, any systematic attempt at racial science that does not have genetics as its foundations is crank stuff... and vile.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: afleitch on June 24, 2017, 04:18:51 AM
If attending Starfleet was in any way like the army/team sports, white guys would all be cut anyway.


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on June 24, 2017, 04:25:56 AM
The Alt-Right has overlooked that there already had been two Star Trek shows back in the 90s with a black captain, and then a woman captain.

So, it's time to say to them: Welcome to the 20th century!!

(Since they haven't arrived to the 20th century yet, we have to welcome them to it first before we can welcome them to the 21st.)


Title: Re: US Alt/Far-Right accuse upcoming "Star Trek Discovery" series of White genocide
Post by: Cactus Jack on June 24, 2017, 05:41:19 AM
You know, I try to be polite on this forum on account of way too many political brawls on YouTube as it is, but anything that makes these useless, entitled brats pitch a fit can only be a worthwhile contribution to society.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Tender Branson on July 03, 2017, 09:11:45 AM
Update:

* Jonathan Frakes will direct a few episodes.

* "Discovery"'s storytelling was influenced by Game of Thrones.

* The series will start on September 24 on CBS and Netflix.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Tender Branson on July 26, 2017, 01:05:07 PM
A new trailer is out:

https://players.brightcove.net/78144477/HJ1F9mOa_default/index.html?videoId=5519112648001


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on July 26, 2017, 01:09:11 PM
Not at all


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on July 27, 2017, 08:25:39 PM
Not enough to get CBS All Access.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Tender Branson on August 31, 2017, 05:50:40 AM
Just 3 weeks left.

What actually is the previously-mentioned event?

EDIT: Based on the idea that this is going to be a Klingon-driven plot, I hope the event is the Great Tribble Hunt.

The series might actually be about (or start with) the following incident:

Quote
The Battle of Donatu V, one of the few brush wars fought between the two powers during the Federation-Klingon Cold War, was fought here in 2245. The battle was inconclusive. (TOS: "The Trouble with Tribbles")

Donatu V was the inhabited fifth planet of its system. The system was located in the same quadrant as Sherman's Planet, Deep Space Station K-7, and an unnamed Klingon outpost. Ownership of this planet, as well as the rest of the region, was disputed between the United Federation of Planets and the Klingon Empire from the point of first contact through the late 2260s.


Title: Star Trek Discovery starts tomorrow
Post by: Tender Branson on September 23, 2017, 01:09:45 PM
Don't forget.

It's on CBS.

And yes, there are Tribbles. I have seen them in a new behind-the-scenes clip.

It doesn't look as bad as I thought, but they need to get rid of that occasional lens-flare.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery starts tomorrow
Post by: Tender Branson on September 23, 2017, 01:16:13 PM
The first 4 episodes are called:

* The Vulcan Hello
* Battle at the Binary Stars
* Context Is for Kings
* The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery starts tomorrow
Post by: Koharu on September 24, 2017, 05:04:18 PM
I am so looking forward to this. Trying not to over-hype it to myself.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: 7,052,770 on September 24, 2017, 07:08:05 PM
It's going to be about 15 minutes late starting due to football running over.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Enduro on September 24, 2017, 07:17:41 PM
Quick question, is this show in the Abrams timeline?


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: 7,052,770 on September 24, 2017, 07:21:32 PM
Quick question, is this show in the Abrams timeline?

No, thankfully. Prime timeline.


Title: Re: How interested are you in the upcoming Star Trek: Discovery series ?
Post by: Enduro on September 24, 2017, 07:23:38 PM
Quick question, is this show in the Abrams timeline?

No, thankfully. Prime timeline.

Alright, I personally prefer the Abrams timeline, but I'll still put it on my watch list (at least the first episode)


Title: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: 7,052,770 on September 24, 2017, 09:55:35 PM
I'm relieved to say it was good. Haven't watched part 2 online yet, but I will soon.


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on September 24, 2017, 11:29:22 PM
Didn't see it. Not gonna bother signing up for another streaming service just to see it. While I do watch over-the-air TV, the local CBS affiliate has too poor a signal for me to get it like I do NBC, ABC, FOX, and PBS.


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on September 25, 2017, 01:20:56 PM
Plot and story was kind of meh, mainly because of the overused and clichéd Klingon shenanigans. But considering that most Trek shows had a terrible first season and got much, much better later on I'm willing to give Discovery the benefit of a doubt.

Party of me was wondering why they even bothered to make it a prequel though. The uniforms, the ship's design and technology (especially that holocommunicator), the look of the Klingons... nothing resembled the TOS era even in the remotest sense. This could have easily been the 25th century instead of the 23rd, and much of the plot doesn't really require a setting in the TOS era anway.

(SPOILER for the second episode in the next paragraph)

The things I liked was when they really made an effort to do something new and different. You quickly notice that this show isn't about a starship and its crew (at least so far) as we are used to, but the personal journey of a single character. It's also unsual that in the second episode of a Star Trek show, the main protagonist is stripped of her rank and sentenced to prison. It was at this junction that it came apparent that our hero's story resembles a bit that of Ro Laren from TNG, except that everything is told from her point of view. It was of course also highly unusual for a Trek show that neither the titular ship nor its captain appeared in the first two episodes (even though Jason Isaacs is credited as a main cast member). The promo for next week revealed that this is in fact going to happen in the third episode.


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Tender Branson on September 25, 2017, 01:23:01 PM
I first watched it in German, but realized they didn't subtitle all the Klingon that was spoken ...

Since I don't speak Klingon fluently, I had to re-watch the relevant parts in English which had subtitles of the Klingons.

And I have to say, you get a really good Trump/Nazi/IS vibe from these "new" old Klingons ...


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Tender Branson on September 25, 2017, 01:30:16 PM
I mostly agree with Old Europe, even though there were parts which looked ok.

But that constant lens-flare is a total turn-off.

One would expect that with a budget of 6 million per episode they would get rid of that silly lens-flare.

Also, the main characters are filmed too close: It's as if the camera is only 20 cm in front of their faces.


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on October 02, 2017, 03:02:08 PM
That third episode was a definite improvement over the first two, although I'm starting to get the feeling that they're trying to turn this into Star Trek: Battlestar Galactica.

Not sure if the ship's captain's "moral ambiguity" is a bit of a red hering or if they try to set him up as the Big Bad in the end. He could go both ways. I enjoy Jason Isaacs' acting though... he's a pretty dark character, but in some way also wickedly funny.


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: dead0man on October 02, 2017, 04:37:01 PM
I don't know if it's good or bad or better or worse than Seth MacFarlane's rip off, but it's a LOT slower.


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: 7,052,770 on October 02, 2017, 07:08:26 PM
That third episode was a definite improvement over the first two, although I'm starting to get the feeling that they're trying to turn this into Star Trek: Battlestar Galactica.

Not sure if the ship's captain's "moral ambiguity" is a bit of a red hering or if they try to set him up as the Big Bad in the end. He could go both ways. I enjoy Jason Isaacs' acting though... he's a pretty dark character, but in some way also wickedly funny.

I'm holding out hope that he turns out to be Garth of Izar.


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Tender Branson on October 04, 2017, 03:41:45 PM
That third episode was a definite improvement over the first two, although I'm starting to get the feeling that they're trying to turn this into Star Trek: Battlestar Galactica.

Not sure if the ship's captain's "moral ambiguity" is a bit of a red hering or if they try to set him up as the Big Bad in the end. He could go both ways. I enjoy Jason Isaacs' acting though... he's a pretty dark character, but in some way also wickedly funny.

I agree. The 3rd episode was much better than the 2 pilot episodes. They got rid of almost all of the silly lens flare, there was more talk between characters rather than overused action scenes.

The tractor beam was pretty weak though, while the "new way to fly" experiments using bacteria looked more like 25th century research, rather than TOS storyline or technology.

Jason Isaacs as Cptn. Lorca is great. He reminds me of Luther Sloan from Section 31 in DS9. Maybe the Discovery is a part of Section 31 ?


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Tender Branson on October 06, 2017, 01:41:48 PM
I have re-watched all 3 episodes in German by now and I was a bit too critical on the 2 pilot episodes. I actually like them better now and I think I can live with the rest of the show's episodes, even though it has progressed significantly in technology compared with TOS and TNG for example.

Old Europe mentioned that Burnham is comparable to Ro Laren, but I think she's also comparable to Seven of Nine or Data, but in character style definitely more with 7/9. Saru is more like Data.

I really liked the Klingon's scenes and their talk/portrayal of honour, warrior-dom, the fallen and outsiders.

Besides, the intro theme is great too. Reminds me of recent James Bond themes.


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Tender Branson on October 28, 2017, 04:56:46 AM
I have now seen all 6 episodes so far and some scences were OK, but I have now watched the clip from the 7th episode and they are throwing a college-like party on the ship and I will officially declare this show a trainwreck ala Martin Schulz ... (started OK, but is slowly getting worse).


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: fluffypanther19 on October 30, 2017, 05:36:53 PM
the first episode was ok if not a bit stiff in its delivery. im either going to watch it on the free trial or just straight up pirate it, but im not paying for cbs all access. besides I got plenty of Netflix to watch (going through stranger things rn) and the Orville is actually pretty good. so im good


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Tender Branson on November 01, 2017, 02:32:47 AM
I have now seen all 6 episodes so far and some scences were OK, but I have now watched the clip from the 7th episode and they are throwing a college-like party on the ship and I will officially declare this show a trainwreck ala Martin Schulz ... (started OK, but is slowly getting worse).

After watching the episode, I need to say that it was actually pretty good. The preview clip just wasn't ...

What do you think, Old Europe ?


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on November 01, 2017, 06:15:33 AM
Discovery is still kind of Meh. Not totally bad, but not that good either.

They're trying very hard to do a "dark" Trek show, but this attempt often comes across as lame and clichéd. "Dark" Trek was done before by DS9 (and to some lesser exrent ENT), so there really wasn't a necessity to do it a third time now. Especially since the show is titled Discovery which implied a return to a more exploration-oriented Star Trek.

Another weakness is that the main protagonist Michael Burnham is too bland and uninteresting. The characters of Lt. Stamets, Cadet Tilly, and Captain Lorca (even though they have to be careful that they're not overdoing it with the "is the captain actually a bad guy or isn't he?" angle) all overshine Burnham in my opinion. Ash Tyler on the other hand is as bland as Burnham, and Saru is mostly useless too.

What I do appreciate in the new show is a willingness to embrace some weirder ideas like the "spore drive" or the "space whale" (which is protected under the Endangered Species Act *lol*) from last episode.

But as I previously said... the first seasons of The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise were all crap too. Usually, it was no earlier than during the third or fourth season those shows actually become good. But they were given that opportunity to grow because they happened to have Star Trek in their title. If TNG hadn't been a Star Trek show it probably would have been cancelled after its second season IMO.

Question is, will Discovery be given that same chance?


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: Tender Branson on November 05, 2017, 07:46:20 AM
Wow, just saw this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EwIgahBzKI

Thumbs up.


Title: Re: Opinion of the Star Trek Discovery pilot
Post by: dead0man on November 05, 2017, 09:16:44 AM
I have now seen all 6 episodes so far and some scences were OK, but I have now watched the clip from the 7th episode and they are throwing a college-like party on the ship and I will officially declare this show a trainwreck ala Martin Schulz ... (started OK, but is slowly getting worse).

After watching the episode, I need to say that it was actually pretty good. The preview clip just wasn't ...
It was my favorite episode so far...in spite of Dwight Schrute giving a "evil bad ass" speech that didn't work.  The main lady, her boy friend and Kevin Spacey's victim should have told the Captain what was going on.  And there was a third thing that bothered me, but I can't remember what it was...still, my favorite episode yet.



Still nowhere near as good as The Orville.


Title: Quentin Tarantino/JJ Abrams/Paramount Star Trek movie to come in 2019
Post by: Tender Branson on December 08, 2017, 08:06:53 AM
http://deadline.com/2017/12/quentin-tarantino-star-trek-movie-jj-abrams-1202220032

Hmmm.


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino/JJ Abrams/Paramount Star Trek movie to come in 2019
Post by: Enduro on December 08, 2017, 05:29:12 PM
I'm pumped. That's gonna be awesome.


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino/JJ Abrams/Paramount Star Trek movie to come in 2019
Post by: 7,052,770 on December 09, 2017, 10:06:41 PM
Probably will be entertaining at least


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino/JJ Abrams/Paramount Star Trek movie to come in 2019
Post by: The Arizonan on December 10, 2017, 12:26:24 AM
No, no, no, no, let me ask you a question: When you came pulling in here, did you notice a sign out in front of my ship that said "Dead Klingon Storage"? Did you notice a sign out in front of my ship that said "Dead Klingon Storage"? You know why you didn't see that sign? 'Cause it ain't there, 'cause storing dead klingons ain't my f**king business, that's why!


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino/JJ Abrams/Paramount Star Trek movie to come in 2019
Post by: Mr. Smith on December 11, 2017, 12:40:00 AM
No, no, no, no, let me ask you a question: When you came pulling in here, did you notice a sign out in front of my ship that said "Dead Klingon Storage"? Did you notice a sign out in front of my ship that said "Dead Klingon Storage"? You know why you didn't see that sign? 'Cause it ain't there, 'cause storing dead klingons ain't my f**king business, that's why!

-cut to Lens Flare coming through the windows and blinding everyone-


Title: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong on January 22, 2018, 12:04:22 PM
Anyone else watch this show? I'm hugely into it and I was wondering if there were any like-minded fans on the forum who'd like to offer their opinions and whatnot. Last night's episode was absolutely wild.

I even bought this shirt last night in the stupor caused by the whiplash of the plot
()


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on January 22, 2018, 10:11:26 PM
I'm not enough of a Star Trek geek to either buy CBS:All Access or seek out pirated episodes, so no opinion.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: Mr. Morden on January 22, 2018, 10:15:53 PM
It's grown on me.  Definitely like it better now than when it first came out, though it's still not even my favorite currently running space-based TV show (that would be "The Expanse").


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong on January 22, 2018, 11:57:29 PM
It's grown on me.  Definitely like it better now than when it first came out, though it's still not even my favorite currently running space-based TV show (that would be "The Expanse").


My friend watches Discovery and the Expanse and he loves them both. Have you seen DSC up to the most recent episode? I had been paying attention to all the theorizers but I was still shocked when they were finally revealed officially... I was also surprised by how quickly the plot moves along


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: Mr. Morden on January 23, 2018, 12:00:52 AM
It's grown on me.  Definitely like it better now than when it first came out, though it's still not even my favorite currently running space-based TV show (that would be "The Expanse").


My friend watches Discovery and the Expanse and he loves them both. Have you seen DSC up to the most recent episode? I had been paying attention to all the theorizers but I was still shocked when they were finally revealed officially... I was also surprised by how quickly the plot moves along

Yes, I've seen up to the most recent episode.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: kelestian on January 23, 2018, 05:19:17 AM
I am not a ster trek fan, only have seen JJ's films (they were good). I've seen only 9 first episodes, but so far show is pretty stupid and lazy. Maybe next episodes will be better


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 23, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
It's still a bit silly, and hardcore Star Trek purists probably have many reasons to hate it, but so far I'd  consider Season 1.5 a definite improvement over Season 1.0.

It's fully serialized now and recently we had a whole barrage of plot twists and reveals which answered some important question from the first half of the season. Surprisngly, the current story arc also serves as kind of a sequel to a prominent two-part episode from Star Trek: Enterprise.

Especially in the second half of the season, Discovery has definitely become the darkest, bleakest, and bloodiest Star Trek show ever. Right now it succeeds in making the Dominion War arc from Deep Speace Nine look like the very embodiment of fluffiness and cheerfulness. Which is why can understand if some hardcore Trekkies may despise this show. Exploring strange new worlds, an optimistic vision of the future, a more "evolved" mankind... that's all deader than dead right now. This is the Breaking Bad / Walking Dead / Handmaid's Tale / etc. of Star Trek shows.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong on January 23, 2018, 09:32:11 PM
Interesting take. While I don't agree that the show is negatively affected by the creative choices, I can see why some people are not cool with some of it. Though, you've got to admit, the plots and characters themselves are extremely high quality and very compelling

Also that Harry Mudd episode with the time loop was one of the best episodes of the whole franchise, imo


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: Mr. Morden on January 23, 2018, 09:39:46 PM
The problem with serialized shows like this is that they so often start out with the writers seeming like they know what they're doing, only to go off the rails badly once it becomes clear how much the writers are winging it.  So yes, I enjoy it so far, but I'm guarded about how this storyline is going to develop.

I'm now actually kind of hoping that the Discovery crew never gets back to their own reality (until perhaps the end of the series).  Would be interesting to see it become something like Star Trek: Sliders, where they hop from one reality to the next over and over.

OTOH, I read someone on another forum suggest their own theory for how this season might end in a frustrating reset button: The Discovery returns to their own reality, but goes back in time to just before the Battle at the Binary Stars, and does something to prevent both the conflict with the Klingons and Burnham's mutiny, clearing the way for Burnham to get promoted to captain of the Discovery.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: Mr. Morden on January 28, 2018, 11:16:42 PM
Latest episode was OK.  Unfortunately, I now think it's more likely than ever that the season will end with a time travel reset button, where much (all?) of the season is erased from the timeline by them going back in time and preventing the Klingon conflict from ever happening in the first place.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on January 28, 2018, 11:49:21 PM
The Orville is better.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: politicallefty on January 29, 2018, 02:55:42 AM
I've only watched the first four episodes and I'm really not impressed. (I stopped because I don't feel compelled right now to watch anything further.) It doesn't feel like Star Trek at all. This is not even close to any previous portrayal of the Federation. It's far too dark and without hope and the Klingon redesign is outright annoying. They sound like they're talking with a mouth full of food or something.


Title: Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek Movie is Happening and Will Be R-Rated
Post by: dead0man on February 06, 2018, 01:16:47 AM
link (https://www.geek.com/movies/quentin-tarantinos-star-trek-movie-is-happening-and-will-be-r-rated-1725270/)
Quote
Nobody asked for it, and the more you think about it, the more wrong it seems, but it looks like Quentin Tarantino is making a Star Trek movie. The news broke earlier this week that Tarantino had pitched an idea for a Star Trek sequel to J.J. Abrams, and that Abrams liked what he heard. Things have reportedly moved very quickly since then and Tarantino met in a writers’ room with The Revenant writer Mark L. Smith, Lindsey Beer, and Drew Pearce. The three hammered out ideas for the new Star Trek film, and Deadline reports that one of those three (probably Smith) will get the job of writing the screenplay.

<snip>

Even after Star Trek: Discovery became the first Star Trek to use the word “,” an R-rated Trek feels super weird. Even though Discovery earned a TV-MA rating for its violence and language, if it were released as a movie, it would probably get a PG-13. Conventional wisdom says you’re allowed to have one f-bomb to stay under the R-rating, but plenty of movies have gotten away with two. Especially when they’re used as innocuously as they were in Discovery. Besides, as Anthony Rapp himself put it, it was a “” in the name of science, not anger. In that way, it felt very Star Trek. I don’t imagine Tarantino’s “s”(or also likely, “motherers”) to be used in the name of science. In his movies, the word is used in anger or casually peppered into sentences. It’s not quite the vision of the future we’re used to seeing from Star Trek.


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek Movie is Happening and Will Be R-Rated
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on February 06, 2018, 05:16:40 AM
yes that is very weird.  R-rated Star Trek shouldn't be a thing.

speaking of Star Trek Into Darkness, I saw it again recently and when a movie has that many gaping plot holes I feel like I'm being gaslighted.  meanwhile I like Star Trek V: Final Frontier; it has some of the best interaction between Kirk, Spock and McCoy, and I think gets too much hate.


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek Movie is Happening and Will Be R-Rated
Post by: America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗 on February 06, 2018, 05:48:33 PM
Hell yeah!


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek Movie is Happening and Will Be R-Rated
Post by: fluffypanther19 on February 06, 2018, 06:59:39 PM


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek Movie is Happening and Will Be R-Rated
Post by: Chancellor Tanterterg on February 06, 2018, 07:03:06 PM
Why?


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek Movie is Happening and Will Be R-Rated
Post by: bgwah on February 06, 2018, 07:37:11 PM
Bleh. I'm a little surprised Tarantino hasn't been taken down by the #metoo movement yet.


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek Movie is Happening and Will Be R-Rated
Post by: Mr. Morden on February 06, 2018, 07:55:15 PM
link (https://www.geek.com/movies/quentin-tarantinos-star-trek-movie-is-happening-and-will-be-r-rated-1725270/)

That story is two months old, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Tarantino will be removed from the project following the Uma Thurman allegations, plus renewed controversy about his defense of Polanski:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/movies/tarantino-thurman-interview.html


Title: Re: Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek Movie is Happening and Will Be R-Rated
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on February 06, 2018, 08:10:04 PM
Will we see Uhura's feet?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Discovery
Post by: 7,052,770 on February 11, 2018, 11:47:47 PM
With 29 seasons of Star Trek now out there (or 31 if you count TAS), I think season 1 of Discovery probably ranks around #10 or so, behind early TOS, middle TNG, and late DS9.


Title: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on July 15, 2018, 03:11:46 AM
Season 2 is currently being filmed in Canada and will air at some point in 2019.

While the first season was about the Klingon War with the Federation and the Mirror Universe, season 2 will focus on something else: family, science and faith.

I have now seen all 15 episodes of season 1 and still rate it only "poor" to "neutral". Compared with previous Star Trek series, Discovery I was way too dark and violent, involving too much torture and way too many action scenes - but basically no character building and meaningful dialogue. For example, even after 15 episodes you have no personal impression of several bridge members. On the other hand, I first didn't like the new Klingon design - but after 15 episodes the Klingon story-telling was among the most interesting parts of the series ...

What do you think ?


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on July 21, 2018, 11:25:29 AM
The Season 2 trailer has been released yesterday during the San Diego Comic Con:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Cd7NKKvDc


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Mr. Morden on July 21, 2018, 01:26:23 PM
I watched all of Season 1 and it showed some promise throughout much of its run, but I ultimately ended the season quite disappointed.  Not sure if I'll bother with Season 2.  The Expanse remains by far the best space-based show of this decade, and Discovery doesn't hold a candle to it.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: dead0man on July 21, 2018, 05:04:39 PM
It got better as the season went on.  There were Klingon boobs and somebody said the F-word.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Torrain on July 25, 2018, 06:00:21 PM
I liked a lot of what they tried to do in season 1, even if the execution was flawed and frankly awkward at times. I hold out hope that with a more optimistic tone, and return to exploration rather than war.

(That being said, I’d keep watching either way. I’m invested now)


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong on July 26, 2018, 09:50:39 PM
Discovery was great, in my opinion. I love the changes they've made, plus the way the show distinguishes itself from the TOS and TNG Eras

I'm really excited for season 2, the changes they made to the TOS uniform/style and everything else look great


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: 7,052,770 on July 27, 2018, 12:02:33 PM
Looking forward to it, but looking forward even more to the series with Patrick Stewart.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Mr. Morden on August 04, 2018, 06:33:44 PM
Btw, we're also going to get a new show about Picard's later years:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/aug/04/patrick-stewart-to-reprise-role-as-star-treks-jean-luc-picard


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on August 05, 2018, 02:02:02 PM
Btw, we're also going to get a new show about Picard's later years:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/aug/04/patrick-stewart-to-reprise-role-as-star-treks-jean-luc-picard

Excellent !

The bad thing is that it is produced by CBS, which is responsible for the crappy "Discovery" series, which was mostly a disappointment in season one.

All action, shooting and torture and almost no dialogue and substance like we used to see in previous Star Trek series.

But I guess this is what CBS and today's Trump-kids want: shoot, kill and only then think (if at all).

At least, Patrick Stewart would bring back some real acting and literature into the series (Shakespeare and Co.) and hopefully he can turn things around to what they were in the 1980s and 1990s ... which would be good, because most Trump-era kids and young adults don't even have a clue anymore who Shakespeare even was ... Welcome to Pakled Nation USA !


Title: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on December 29, 2018, 01:22:03 AM
What do you expect of this new series that will come in late 2019 and will feature Patrick Stewart once again in the role of (Admiral ?) Jean-Luc Picard ... ?

()

It was recently mentioned that the series will be set in the year 2399, which is 20 years after the destruction of Data and the events involving "Nemesis".

The new "Picard" series will be set in the "Prime" timeline, instead of the alternative "Kelvin" timeline.

In 2399, Picard will be a 94-year old man - so what can we expect from him ? 94 is quite the age, but medical progress probably means he's still kinda fit for the age.

Too bad Data was destroyed when the Scimitar exploded in "Nemesis", but maybe his "brother" B-4 will play a role 20 years later ...

Or maybe Data was not destroyed at the explosion and will be found drifting in space 20 years later ... :P

https://comicbook.com/startrek/2018/12/04/star-trek-picard-series-2019-premiere-patrick-stewart


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: 7,052,770 on December 29, 2018, 10:31:49 AM
I have extremely high hopes and expectations.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: Governor Sirius on December 29, 2018, 01:23:08 PM
I hope data is back he's my favorite. Him dying is sad.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on December 29, 2018, 02:32:09 PM
I have extremely high hopes and expectations.

Me too.

But the problem is that CBS All Access is in charge of producing the series and with them basically the "Discovery" producers as well, which doesn't bode well.

"Discovery" has been a big disappointment for TNG/80s/90s Star Trek fans like me.

To quote myself:

All action, shooting and torture and almost no dialogue and substance like we used to see in previous Star Trek series.

But I guess this is what CBS and today's Trump-kids want: shoot, kill and only then think (if at all).

At least, Patrick Stewart would bring back some real acting and literature into the series (Shakespeare and Co.) and hopefully he can turn things around to what they were in the 1980s and 1990s ... which would be good, because most Trump-era kids and young adults don't even have a clue anymore who Shakespeare even was ... Welcome to Pakled Nation USA !

It would have been better if CBS dumped the "Discovery" producers and instead brought back the producers from the 1980s. Some of them are probably dead or demented by now, but they'd still be better than the Discovery people ...


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: politicallefty on December 29, 2018, 06:12:04 PM
I have extremely high hopes and expectations.

Me too.

But the problem is that CBS All Access is in charge of producing the series and with them basically the "Discovery" producers as well, which doesn't bode well.

"Discovery" has been a big disappointment for TNG/80s/90s Star Trek fans like me.

That’s actually the reason my hopes and expectiations are so low. We seem to have a similar taste in Star Trek overall. I tried to like Discovery and I just don’t. I even ended up liking Enterprise (especially Season 4). If it wasn’t for Discovery, my hopes and general excitement would be so much higher. I’d love to see the Federation as it enters the 25th century.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: brucejoel99 on December 30, 2018, 12:12:37 AM
I have extremely high hopes and expectations.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 28, 2019, 12:29:15 PM
After 2 episodes, Season 2 seems to be better than Season 1.

Spock has not appeared so far, but apparently he's in a mental institution on Star Base V ...

I enjoy it much more though to watch the Orville.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: 7,052,770 on January 28, 2019, 08:30:33 PM
I've enjoyed it so far. I actually would prefer a lot more Spock. Like if season 3 were just on Pike's Enterprise, that would be cool.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 29, 2019, 06:16:30 AM
Yeah, Season 2 seems to be an improvement over Season 1 so far (I found the first half of Season particularly weak). I atrribute to the fact that they actually try to be Star Trek now, instead of some silly nuBSG rip-off. Anson Mount's likeable portrayal of Pike is also a nice addition.

Btw, in addition to the aforementioned Captain Picard series (and the Star Trek: Short Treks  short film companion show to Discovery which is already available with its first four installments) there are a couple more Trek show in the works at CBS right now.

There's an upcoming Section 31 show, starring Michelle Yeoh as former Terran Emperor Philippa Georgiou:
https://deadline.com/2019/01/star-trek-spinoff-michelle-yeoh-philippa-georgiou-series-development-1202534747/

And an animated comedy show titled Lower Decks, focusing "on the support crew serving on one of Starfleet’s least important ships":
https://deadline.com/2018/10/star-trek-lower-decks-animated-series-rick-and-morty-mike-mcmahan-alex-kurtzman-cbs-all-access-1202489207/




Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 02, 2019, 06:46:52 AM
After 2 episodes, Season 2 seems to be better than Season 1.

Spock has not appeared so far, but apparently he's in a mental institution on Star Base V ...

I enjoy it much more though to watch the Orville.

And with episode 3, they are back to the Season 1 storyline: Klingons (now with hair), brutality, spores and Georgiou.

On the other hand, Orville did their own version of Data + Jenna from Star Trek TNG ...


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: dead0man on February 02, 2019, 01:51:59 PM
After 2 episodes, Season 2 seems to be better than Season 1.

Spock has not appeared so far, but apparently he's in a mental institution on Star Base V ...

I enjoy it much more though to watch the Orville.

And with episode 3, they are back to the Season 1 storyline: Klingons (now with hair), brutality, spores and Georgiou.

On the other hand, Orville did their own version of Data + Jenna from Star Trek TNG ...
and it was the first good episode of the season.  I've been really disappointed in this season.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: RI on February 07, 2019, 04:50:43 PM
I really hate what Season 1 did with Lorca, who was the best part of the show. The Klingon arc was garbage, as was Burnham as a character. The undeserved moralizing at the end was so trite.

Season 2 is still way too early to judge, but it is certainly more Star Trek-y. Pike and the red angel thing are somewhat interesting, but I don't care about the Spock stuff, which feels like a cheap nostalgia grab.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: 7,052,770 on February 08, 2019, 12:38:22 AM
Good episode tonight. Really "felt" like Star Trek.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on April 01, 2019, 02:52:34 PM
It was recently revealed that the series will involve 94-year old Picard, dealing with the aftermath of the destruction of Romulus by a supernova in the late 2380s.

Besides Stewart, 3 other cast members have already been announced.

Filming will begin in the next few days and last until October.

Quote
"It’s going to be a very different show from Discovery. The only way that this universe I think works correctly, is if each show is really different and speaks to a different part of Star Trek. This is going to be a very thoughtful, psychological portrait in a lot of ways."


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: Rules for me, but not for thee on April 01, 2019, 10:20:26 PM
Gonna be telling stories of the past, drinking and hanging out at the vineyard.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: Torrain on April 03, 2019, 02:52:33 PM
Sign me up!

I've actually enjoyed Discovery (although I've bitten my tongue over the writer more than a couple of times), but I'm increasingly intrigued to see something entirely different, from both the current crop of grim-dark sci fi shows, and the exploration-based earlier Trek.

If the show focuses on Picard's struggle to deal with the inevitable political, economic and societal fallout caused by the loss of one of the major regional powers (given that the Empire would likely collapse without Romulus) then I'm really intrigued to see where they go.

No one has touched that era of the Prime timeline since Nemesis, so its completely open for the writers to shape. No worries about anachronisms, or inconsistencies. An unexplored country, so to speak.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on April 03, 2019, 03:08:29 PM
Sign me up!

I've actually enjoyed Discovery (although I've bitten my tongue over the writer more than a couple of times), but I'm increasingly intrigued to see something entirely different, from both the current crop of grim-dark sci fi shows, and the exploration-based earlier Trek.

If the show focuses on Picard's struggle to deal with the inevitable political, economic and societal fallout caused by the loss of one of the major regional powers (given that the Empire would likely collapse without Romulus) then I'm really intrigued to see where they go.

No one has touched that era of the Prime timeline since Nemesis, so its completely open for the writers to shape. No worries about anachronisms, or inconsistencies. An unexplored country, so to speak.

Correct.

Also: IIRC, Voyager returned back home to Earth from the Delta Quadrant in 2394 - which would only be 4 or 5 years earlier than the start date of that new Picard series (2398 or 2399).

So, the Borg will likely be defeated (?) and won't be a threat anymore. Or did they re-group somehow, after the Queen got killed off by Janeway ?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on April 03, 2019, 03:12:47 PM
Sign me up!

I've actually enjoyed Discovery (although I've bitten my tongue over the writer more than a couple of times), but I'm increasingly intrigued to see something entirely different, from both the current crop of grim-dark sci fi shows, and the exploration-based earlier Trek.

If the show focuses on Picard's struggle to deal with the inevitable political, economic and societal fallout caused by the loss of one of the major regional powers (given that the Empire would likely collapse without Romulus) then I'm really intrigued to see where they go.

No one has touched that era of the Prime timeline since Nemesis, so its completely open for the writers to shape. No worries about anachronisms, or inconsistencies. An unexplored country, so to speak.

Correct.

Also: IIRC, Voyager returned back home to Earth from the Delta Quadrant in 2394 - which would only be 4 or 5 years earlier than the start date of that new Picard series (2398 or 2399).

So, the Borg will likely be defeated (?) and won't be a threat anymore. Or did they re-group somehow, after the Queen got killed off by Janeway ?

Sorry, Voyager returned home to Earth in 2378.

2394 was the alternative timeline.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: 7,052,770 on April 04, 2019, 11:16:37 PM
I was kinda "meh" on tonight's episode, but holy sh**t that scene with Pike's vision of the future.

I would love to see a spinoff with Pike commanding the Enterprise (along with Spock, Number One, and maybe other characters from The Cage).


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on April 04, 2019, 11:24:27 PM
Discovery has become so annoying to me that I stopped watching it in favour of The Orville and The Good Doctor instead.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on May 08, 2019, 10:25:36 AM
There are rumours that Picard will not have a beard like in the picture in my original post.

There will be 10 episodes in Season 1 and Jonathan Frakes will direct at least 2 of them, but so far no TNG cast member has been asked to appear in the new series along Patrick Stewart.

It is also rumoured that after the destruction of Romulus, the series and Picard will focus on re-settling the Romulan refugees to other planets (something that Stewart apparently likes, as he is a more left-wing Labour-affiliated person) and it would deal with modern-day issues (just like TNG did).

Also: filming has started 2 weeks ago in CA, instead of Toronto, Canada.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): First trailer out !
Post by: Tender Branson on May 24, 2019, 11:30:50 AM
First trailer out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeXQ4chR2q8

:)

It has potential and it's probably better than the shi**y Discovery.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): First trailer out !
Post by: Tender Branson on May 24, 2019, 11:44:12 AM
First trailer out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeXQ4chR2q8

:)

It has potential and it's probably better than the shi**y Discovery.

For German speakers, the new voice of Picard will be hard to get used to - because the speaker who dubbed Picard died in 2013.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: MasterJedi on May 24, 2019, 12:32:47 PM
I have extremely high hopes and expectations.

Star Trek fans hate everything done, so I expect a sh**tstorm. Good thing Star Trek sucks.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): First trailer out !
Post by: Tender Branson on May 25, 2019, 12:10:02 AM
The trailer is offering more clues about this theory:

It is also rumoured that after the destruction of Romulus, the series and Picard will focus on re-settling the Romulan refugees to other planets (something that Stewart apparently likes, as he is a more left-wing Labour-affiliated person) and it would deal with modern-day issues (just like TNG did).

The trailer has a female (Romulan ?) voice talking about how 15 years ago, Picard led the "greatest rescue armada and saved us from darkness". And then the unimagineable happened.

So, if the series takes place in 2398/2399, 15 years ago would be 2383/2384 - and about 3-4 years before the Romulan star system was destroyed by a Supernova (2387).

We can assume that scientists already were aware of the coming Supernova a few years ago, so that's why Picard and Starfleet started to rescue the Romulans, but eventually still a few billion died ...

()


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019)
Post by: Tender Branson on May 25, 2019, 12:21:38 AM
Gonna be telling stories of the past, drinking and hanging out at the vineyard.

You were not wrong, after watching the trailer.

I like the slow, melancholic storytelling in it.

Hopefully, this series will be as much anti-Discovery as it can be.

I absolutely hated that fast-and-furious, technology-filled, battle-oriented crap.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): First trailer out !
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on May 25, 2019, 01:07:55 AM
For Picard to leave Starfleet, something absolutely horrific must have happened in the aftermath of the supernova. Perhaps the Federation refuses any refugees at all and the Romulans end up becoming the new Maquis? That would be incredibly poetic and I could imagine that breaking someone like Picard.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): First trailer out !
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on May 25, 2019, 03:56:58 AM
I'M SO HYPED FOR THIS

If this were anyone else, I'd be afraid about the possibility of it being a shameless cash-grab based purely on nostalgia value, but the fact is, Patrick Stewart is such a good actor that he can easily carry the entire show on his own.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): First trailer out !
Post by: 7,052,770 on May 25, 2019, 10:54:21 AM
For Picard to leave Starfleet, something absolutely horrific must have happened in the aftermath of the supernova. Perhaps the Federation refuses any refugees at all and the Romulans end up becoming the new Maquis? That would be incredibly poetic and I could imagine that breaking someone like Picard.

Sounds like they may be going for a refugees allegory.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): First trailer out !
Post by: Tender Branson on July 10, 2019, 11:25:41 PM
Picard has a dog (and judging by the ears, it’s a Romulan or Vulcan dog):

()


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): First trailer out !
Post by: Lechasseur on July 13, 2019, 09:18:34 PM
So does that mean that Picard is the new Klingon? And that the Hauts de France is a planet in the galaxy? Lol


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on July 20, 2019, 03:48:04 PM
Wowza:



Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on July 20, 2019, 04:04:49 PM
As can be seen in the new trailer, Brent Spiner (Data or B-4) and Jeri Ryan (7 of 9) will return for the series, as will Jonathan Del Arco (who played the Borg Hugh in TNG).

The Borg also are part of the new Comic-Con trailer ...

It is likely that others will return as well, such as Jonathan Frakes, LeVar Burton, Marina Sirtis etc.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: brucejoel99 on July 20, 2019, 04:46:02 PM
This is gonna be f**king amazing.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on July 20, 2019, 05:06:27 PM

Yes.

It’s good to see that the Borg are still around, even though it seems they are in internment camps and they are made human again with their implants being removed.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 22, 2019, 09:30:04 AM
The inclusion of well-known (for the Trek fandom anyway) actors is not by any means a guarantee that this show won't suck. If the writing is weak then the show is bad. That being said, the inclusion of Michael Chabon as writer/showrunner makes me cautiously optimistic. At least more optimistic than with a hack like Alex Kurtzman at the helm (Kurtzman ist still involved in the production, but in a less significant capacity). Oh, and yes, it will be sure nice to see Jonathan Frakes, Brent Spiner, Marina Sirtis, and Jeri Ryan again. Although it's still unclear if they will appear only in cameos or will have larger roles.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: dead0man on July 22, 2019, 10:07:24 AM
I'm not a Treky, but I'll watch pretty much anything with Stewart as Picard in it.  What a great character.


Title: Opinion of the new "Star Trek: Picard" trailer ?
Post by: Tender Branson on July 22, 2019, 01:34:04 PM



Somewhere between FF and good trailer.


Title: Re: Opinion of the new "Star Trek: Picard" trailer ?
Post by: Rules for me, but not for thee on July 22, 2019, 04:08:59 PM
Data reaches the uncanny valley and future-Harry-Potter-girl kicks ass while Jean-Luc Dumbledore helps her.

This is all over the place for me.  Nice cameo? by Jeri Ryan though.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 23, 2019, 05:35:48 AM
Fun fact: Patrick Stewart will have portrayed the character of Jean-Luc Picard over a longer period of time than the 28-year era in which William Shatner had portrayed James T. Kirk.

Weird... makes ones feel old. The first time I watched TNG was when the show had been on TV for only three years.


Title: Re: Opinion of the new "Star Trek: Picard" trailer ?
Post by: brucejoel99 on July 24, 2019, 01:45:28 AM
Freedom trailer. Made me even more excited for the show than I already was.


Title: Re: Opinion of the new "Star Trek: Picard" trailer ?
Post by: PragmaticPopulist on July 25, 2019, 09:25:03 AM
Freedom trailer. Loving the appearance of Seven of Nine. I hope that other members of TNG also appear though.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on July 27, 2019, 03:42:33 AM
Star Trek: Picard reveals Romulans are keeping former Borg as prisoners (https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-romulans-borg-prisoners)

Quote
One of the biggest shocks of Star Trek: Picard is that the Romulans are keeping former Borg prisoners. Patrick Stewart returns to the iconic role of Jean-Luc Picard in the upcoming CBS All-Access series, which is set about 20 years after Star Trek: Nemesis. At San Diego Comic-Con, the Star Trek: Picard trailer was unveiled, giving fans their first real glimpse at Picard's next adventure. One of the surprises is that the Romulans and the Borg are in the series but it's the pointy-eared aliens who are the villains.

(...)

Quote
Star Trek: Picard not only tells the next chapter of Jean-Luc's life but it also advances the story of the 24th-century era of Star Trek. By this point in the timeline, Romulus has been destroyed by a supernova in 2387  (as seen in J.J. Abrams' 2009 Star Trek movie) and Admiral Picard led the greatest rescue effort in history to save the Romulan people. However, an unknown tragedy occurred that caused Picard to become disillusioned and leave Starfleet. Picard's encounters with the Romulans aren't as storied as his wars with the Borg but in Star Trek: Nemesis, Picard's battle with Shinzon (Tom Hardy), who was the Romulan Praetor and Picard's clone, led to the death of Commander Data (Brent Spiner). Now, the Romulans continue to be a thorn in Jean-Luc's side in Star Trek: Picard.

()

Quote
Thanks to the Star Trek: Picard trailer, fans can make some deductions on what has transpired in the years since Romulus' destruction: the Romulans have somehow conquered a segment of the Borg Collective and even captured a Borg Cube. The Romulans are also experimenting on de-Borgified people for unknown reasons. One of their victims is Dahj (Isa Briones), who escapes and asks Picard for help. But Dahj may be more dangerous than she realizes, perhaps because the Romulans' experiments on her have turned her into some sort of "destroyer". Indeed, despite strip-mining Borg technology and keeping de-Borgified prisoners for 5,843 days (over 16 years), the Romulans naturally still fear assimilation.

(...)

Quote
The only time prior the Romulans are known to have encountered the Borg was in Star Trek: The Next Generation season 1 episode "The Neutral Zone". A Romulan outpost near the Neutral Zone was attacked, which caused the Romulans to blame the Federation and ended 53 years of Romulan isolationism. However, it was later learned that the outpost was destroyed by the Borg during one of their incursions into the Alpha Quadrant. Since then, the Borg have been explored in TNG and in Star Trek: Voyager; Picard himself was returned to humanity after he was assimilated and designated "Locutus of Borg", an experience that haunted him for years. Others have also been successfully saved, such has Hugh (Jonathan Del Alco) and Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan), both of whom will appear in Star Trek: Picard. It's fascinating that the Romulans remain villains considering the tragedy that befell their race. However, it's likely because they lost their homeworld that the surviving Romulans have turned even more ruthless and somehow defeated a portion of the Borg, the Federation's deadliest enemies. Meanwhile, the truth about the Borg is that the vast majority of the Collective are victims of involuntary assimilation - and it's very much like the Romulans to take Borg technology with a total disregard for the 'inferior' species it was grafted to. Meanwhile, fans will have to wait and see how the story plays out and what Jean-Luc Picard does next in Star Trek: Picard.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on July 27, 2019, 03:47:02 AM
So, the Romulans are roughly like the Kurds, who are also keeping the ISlamic State fighters as prisoners after being defeated.

Plus: the Romulans had their home planet destroyed and are "homeless", just like the Kurds (who also have no state or country on their own).


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (early 2020): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on August 09, 2019, 10:06:47 AM
A 3-book series and a comic book will be released before the start of the TV series to tell what happened in the 20 years between 2379 (Nemesis) and 2399 (which is when the Picard series will start):

https://trekmovie.com/2019/08/01/star-trek-picard-to-be-preceded-by-book-and-comic-prequels

The books are out in November and February, so the TV series will probably start later ...


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (early 2020): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on August 09, 2019, 10:18:07 AM
I think from the previous movies we actually don't know what caused the Supernova that destroyed Romulus in 2387 ...

Was it a normal Supernova ?

But Supernovas usually don't pop up just suddenly, but instead it takes thousands of years for such a process ...

Were the Borg responsible ? Or some Borg who were still around after being destroyed by Janeway ?

Maybe that's why the Romulans are keeping the Borg prisoners ...


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (early 2020): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on September 04, 2019, 03:17:47 PM
There will be a Picard panel at the Oct. 5 NYC Comic-Con:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/york-comic-con-2019-schedule-182926693.html

Maybe with a new trailer out ?

BTW: filming of Season 1 has ended a few days ago.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (early 2020): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on September 07, 2019, 01:49:24 PM
A popular Trekkie theory is that Dahj is in fact the re-surfaced Borg Queen, who supposedly was „killed“ by Janeway in „Endgame“:

()

The Romulans are calling her „the end of everything“ and „the destroyer“.

Which makes sense considering my theory that the Borg were responsible for the Supernova that destroyed Romulus.

Remember how the Borg Queen said to Data in „First Contact“:

Quote
I am the beginning, the end, the one who is many. I am the Borg.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (early 2020): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on September 07, 2019, 02:05:17 PM
On the other hand, it’s probably not the Borg Queen:

Picard also killed the Borg Queen - himself - in the year 2063 during First Contact, by breaking her spine.

He hated her and what she has done to him.

In the new trailer though, Picard is familiar with the young woman Dahj and her real identity and seems to care for her wellbeing.

That doesn’t fit together.

Maybe she is the daughter of Seven-of-Nine and Chakotay instead ?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (2019): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Badger on September 10, 2019, 01:01:14 AM
I'm not a Treky, but I'll watch pretty much anything with Stewart as Picard in it.  What a great character.

This. Please God, let the directors and writers list Stewart be Stewart.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (early 2020): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on September 22, 2019, 03:10:55 AM
I think Dahj could also be Riker's and Troy's daughter.

She looks about 20, which would fit the storyline.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (early 2020): 2nd Trailer out (San Diego Comic-Con) !
Post by: Tender Branson on September 27, 2019, 01:56:04 PM
BTW, here is a promo picture with Picard and his dog in the vineyard:

()

Filming for Season 2 will start in March 2020, which probably means the series will start early next year.

https://comicbook.com/startrek/2019/09/18/star-trek-picard-season-2-filming-march


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020) - new trailer out at NY Comic Con
Post by: Tender Branson on October 05, 2019, 10:49:36 PM
Star Trek Picard will start on January 23 !

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/05/entertainment/star-trek-picard-trailer-comic-con-trnd/index.html

Plus, a new trailer was released yesterday at NY Comic Con:




;D

And for German-speakers, Amazon Prime DE has released the first dubbed version of a trailer so far and the voices are mostly like we knew them from TNG (even though Picard‘s German dubbing speaker died in the meantime).




Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020) - new trailer out at NY Comic Con
Post by: Tender Branson on December 01, 2019, 04:04:57 AM
So ... "Star Trek Picard" will start on Jan. 23/24th.

For this, the first of a 3-series prequel comic has been released the past days - which explains what happened between "Nemesis" in the late 2370s to the events of the Supernova destroying Romulus in the late 2380s.

https://comicbook.com/startrek/2019/11/27/star-trek-picard-romulan-supernova-evacuation-leaves-starfleet/

It also mentions what happened with Riker, Troy and Geordi after Nemesis and explains the mission and reason why Picard quit Starfleet. (https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Verity)

But you have to read it yourself ... ;)


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020) - new trailer out at NY Comic Con
Post by: Tender Branson on December 01, 2019, 04:33:59 AM
So ... "Star Trek Picard" will start on Jan. 23/24th.

For this, the first of a 3-series prequel comic has been released the past days - which explains what happened between "Nemesis" in the late 2370s to the events of the Supernova destroying Romulus in the late 2380s.

https://comicbook.com/startrek/2019/11/27/star-trek-picard-romulan-supernova-evacuation-leaves-starfleet/

It also mentions what happened with Riker, Troy and Geordi after Nemesis and explains the mission and reason why Picard quit Starfleet. (https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Verity)

But you have to read it yourself ... ;)

There will also be a "Short Trek" TV episode on Jan. 9 called "Children of Mars", which will serve as a prequel to the Picard series:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Children_of_Mars_(episode)

This makes sense, because of the revelations in the comic series about what Geordi does after "Nemesis" ...


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020) - new trailer out at NY Comic Con
Post by: Tender Branson on December 01, 2019, 04:45:26 AM
My theory:

Dahj, the ca. 20-year old daughter of Will Riker and Deanna Troy, is some kind of activist who infiltrates the facility where the (criminal) Romulan survivors of the Supernova are keeping the Borg as prisoners, where they experiment on them (on behalf of the Federation !) and where they turn them into an army of cybernetic slaves (again for the Federation !).

That would fit the TNG episode narrative, called "The measure of a man.", where Data was classified a free individual and not a slave that can later be reproduced and made to serve on various Federation ships.

It also fits the mission of Admiral Picard slightly before the Supernova that destroyed Romulus: he finds out that the Romulans are slave-holders on a colony planet where 10.000 Romulans live, but who keep 5 million natives working on plantations. Picard wants to evacuate all of them, but the Romulans refuse. Picard is overruled and gets orders from the Federation to evacuate only the Romulan settlers and doom the 5 million natives. This will lead to Picard leaving Starfleet and will later come back once he finds out that the Federation still tolerates slavery ...


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020) - new trailer out at NY Comic Con
Post by: Tender Branson on December 12, 2019, 12:34:13 PM
Star Trek: Picard Is Most Anticipated New Show of 2020

Quote
Star Trek: Picard has been named the most anticipated new show of 2020 by IMDB. CBS All Access’s Picard appears ahead of Marvel’s upcoming The Falcon and the Winter Soldier series on Disney+, HBO’s The New POp, AMC’s The Walking Dead: The World Beyond, TNT’s Snowpiercer, CBS All Access’s The Stand, HBO’s The Outsider, DC Universe’s Stargirl, Amazon Prime Video’s Hunters, and The CW’s Katy Keene.

“Rather than base its annual rankings on small statistical samplings or reviews from professional critics, IMDb determines its list of most popular movies by the actual page views of the more than 200 million monthly visitors to IMDb,” IMDB told TheWrap in a statement. “This exclusive and definitive data is derived from the IMDbPro movie and TV rankings, which are updated weekly throughout the year.”

https://comicbook.com/startrek/2019/12/11/star-trek-picard-most-anticipated-show-2020-imdb


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020) - new trailer out at NY Comic Con
Post by: Tender Branson on December 22, 2019, 03:56:12 PM
The new trailer released yesterday creates a lot of questions ...




Which planet was destroyed in this clip ?

Mars, Vulcan, Romulus (but Romulus is not orange ...) ?

And what does this „Children of Mars“ clip, which serves as a prequel to ST Picard, has to do with it ?



Also, the German dubbed trailer is back (it got deleted from Prime Video Germany soon after the release):





Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 01, 2020, 04:26:10 AM
A new trailer is out during NFL matches:




Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 03, 2020, 12:43:28 PM
Another clip from next week's "Short Trek" episode, which is a preview of "Picard":




In "Children of Mars", Mars apparently is facing bombardment or destruction - an event which shapes Picard.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 03, 2020, 12:49:51 PM
+ another one:




Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Orser67 on January 04, 2020, 12:16:47 AM
I'm more of a Star Wars guy then a Star Trek guy, but I'll probably check this show out at some point. It's cool that the TNG cast is getting one last series (presumably).


Title: Daisy Ridley (Rey) and Oscar Isaac (Poe) Want to Join Star Trek
Post by: Frodo on January 05, 2020, 03:23:27 PM
Star Wars’ Daisy Ridley And Oscar Isaac Are Down To Join Star Trek (https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/star-wars-stars-daisy-ridley-oscar-isaac-open-joining-star-trek-john-boyega/)


Title: Re: Daisy Ridley (Rey) and Oscar Isaac (Poe) Want to Join Star Trek
Post by: Tender Branson on January 05, 2020, 03:33:58 PM
Ridley could play the daughter of someone in „Picard“ (Season 2) ... maybe Seven of Nine‘s daughter (assuming that Dahj isn’t already her daughter).

Isaac could play the son of Tuvok, or Alexander, the son of Worf (the original actor of Alexander has sadly died not long ago at a young age).


Title: Re: Daisy Ridley (Rey) and Oscar Isaac (Poe) Want to Join Star Trek
Post by: Mr. Morden on January 05, 2020, 04:16:59 PM
Isaac could play the son of Tuvok, or Alexander, the son of Worf (the original actor of Alexander has sadly died not long ago at a young age).

That actor only played Alexander in one episode though.  Brian Bonsall and Marc Worden are still alive.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 11, 2020, 01:39:25 PM
The 8-minute „Short Treks“ episode called „Children of Mars“ has aired and it’s basically a longer trailer for what’s happened 13 years before „Picard“.

If you want to read about it:

https://trekmovie.com/2020/01/10/review-star-trek-short-treks-children-of-mars

I have seen it and yes, Mars gets attacked by so-called „Rogue Synths“. Mars is bombarded 9/11 style, but apparently not destroyed completely (the screen shows Admiral Picard responding to the attack and 3.000 are dead.)

„Rogue Synths“ are likely some form of androids / artificial intelligence.

The 2 young student girls, at a school near Federation headquarters in San Francisco in 2386 (?), lose their parents in the attack. Both are enemies before, then become friends.

A very good short episode.


Title: New Star Trek movie with new director, vision, story, actors coming
Post by: Tender Branson on January 11, 2020, 03:30:33 PM
This looks promising:

http://blog.trekcore.com/2020/01/noah-hawley-has-own-take-on-star-trek-film/

Away from the action.

Discovery and even Picard look extremely action-heavy and dystopian for my taste.

We need a Star Trek movie that is more like The Orville again, even if it is considered „boring“.


Title: Re: New Star Trek movie with new director, vision, story, actors coming
Post by: 7,052,770 on January 11, 2020, 05:02:27 PM
As long as it's in the Prime Universe and the Abramsverse is shut down permanently, sounds good.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 14, 2020, 04:39:09 PM
It has been confirmed that „Picard“ will feature Romulan races, depending on their homeworlds/colonies in the destroyed empire.

There will be different ears/eyebrows and maybe skin color.

Also, the world premiere took place yesterday in L.A. and Gates McFadden and LeVar Burton (both of whom are not in the trailers or cast) had been there as well ...

Maybe just as guests ? Or will they be in the series as well ?

Also, Picard was already renewed for a 2nd season and Worf might come back in this one.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: afleitch on January 14, 2020, 04:44:02 PM
I am genuinely excited.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 14, 2020, 04:45:46 PM
Is Data now female (=Dahj) ?




Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 14, 2020, 04:51:41 PM
The showrunners and Stewart have recently explained that „Picard“ will be a crossover of TNG and „Discovery“.

It’s a dystopian version of our current world, not a „naive“ utopian one like in TNG.

The Federation has apparently shifted into a dark, twisted, immoral mode after the events of Nemesis, the attack on Mars and the destruction of Romulus by the Supernova.

The show will very much represent a post 9-11 Star Trek Universe and also make reference to Trump, the refugee crisis, slavery and artificial intelligence and what it means from a moral/ethical standpoint.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 17, 2020, 04:15:59 PM
3-minute preview with new scenes:




Recently, I became a bit worried that „Picard“ will be too similar to the crappy „Discovery“, but this is looking good ...


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 20, 2020, 12:21:33 PM
Just 3 days left !

Here another trailer:




Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 22, 2020, 12:31:15 PM
More clips about Data and Picard leaving the Starfleet:




And Dahj (who could be Data in female clothing):




Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 22, 2020, 01:02:57 PM
Does the prominent inclusion of Jeri Ryan in the show's promotional posters mean that - unlike Spiner, Frakes, and Sirtis - she's gonna be a member of the main cast alongside Patrick Stewart, with the other three being only (one-shot?) guest stars?


()


()



Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 23, 2020, 04:51:11 AM
Whoopi Goldberg is probably going to appear as Guinan in Season 2: https://www.trektoday.com/content/2020/01/goldberg-to-appear-in-star-trek-picard/


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 23, 2020, 02:23:30 PM
Just watched Episode 1.

Epic !

Glorious !

Stylistically, not much like Discovery, much slower and personal.

This is what an aged Star Trek looks like, like a well-aged wine.

And we get to know who the young woman Dahj is ... :)


Title: Rate the new Star Trek Picard series
Post by: Tender Branson on January 23, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
After watching Episode 1 („Remembrance“), I rate it A+.


Title: Re: Rate the new Star Trek Picard series
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on January 23, 2020, 07:34:59 PM
Don't care. I like Star Trek, but not enuf to add another streaming service, especially one with nothing else of note so far.


Title: Re: Rate the new Star Trek Picard series
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on January 23, 2020, 08:16:18 PM
Looks cool, I would love to be able to see it at some point.


Title: Re: Rate the new Star Trek Picard series
Post by: 7,052,770 on January 23, 2020, 10:41:48 PM
A. Absolutely loved it.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 24, 2020, 03:58:07 AM
SPOILERS





After having watched the series premiere I think my main beef with that show is the extremely unoriginal backstory with the artificial intelligences rebelling against their creators and  subsequently being outlawed and/or persecuted. We already know that story from Blade Runner, reimagined Battlestar Galactica, and the new Westworld.

Aside from that I think I liked it. They tried to build and expand on previous events like Data's death or the destruction of Romulus and showed us the repercussions. Patrick Stewart's acting abilities alone probably make that show superior to Discovery, and it's nice to see Picard back in action again. I also found it very pleasing that it wasn't overloaded with action sequences, quiet drama being in the forefront instead.

Like I said, at first glance it's better than Discovery and probably better than Voyager and Enterprise as well.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 24, 2020, 06:04:39 AM
One thing they seem to have adopted from Discovery btw is the gradual introduction of all main characters over the course of several episodes. Discovery had introduced half its (Season 1) main cast in Episode 1 and the remaining half in Episode 3.

Picard's series premiere also featured only four of the main characters, with one of them only briefly appearing in the final scene. This has actually a lot of advantages, since many serieses' pilots are suffering from the problem of having to do stuff too much exposition into a single episode.


Title: Re: Rate the new Star Trek Picard series
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 24, 2020, 07:06:43 AM
While a single episode probably isn't nearly sufficient to rate an entire series, I will give the first episode a "B".

If it holds this level of quality, I'd place the series somewhere in the middle field below TOS, TNG, and DS9, but above VOY, ENT, and DIS... well, perhaps on par with DS9.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 24, 2020, 08:40:09 AM
SPOILERS





After having watched the series premiere I think my main beef with that show is the extremely unoriginal backstory with the artificial intelligences rebelling against their creators and  subsequently being outlawed and/or persecuted. We already know that story from Blade Runner, reimagined Battlestar Galactica, and the new Westworld.

Aside from that I think I liked it. They tried to build and expand on previous events like Data's death or the destruction of Romulus and showed us the repercussions. Patrick Stewart's acting abilities alone probably make that show superior to Discovery, and it's nice to see Picard back in action again. I also found it very pleasing that it wasn't overloaded with action sequences, quiet drama being in the forefront instead.

Like I said, at first glance it's better than Discovery and probably better than Voyager and Enterprise as well.

There's also another hidden reference to the current (or past) refugee crisis other than the Romulan one resulting from the Supernova IMO:

The attack on Mars by the artificial intelligences are similar to the attacks on 9/11 carried out by Muslims.

Trump's travel ban on Muslims are similar to the ban of A.I. by the Federation.

Since Dahj is some kind of human/A.I. hybrid, she could be seen as some sort of Muslim refugee using todays standards.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 24, 2020, 09:01:42 AM
SPOILERS





After having watched the series premiere I think my main beef with that show is the extremely unoriginal backstory with the artificial intelligences rebelling against their creators and  subsequently being outlawed and/or persecuted. We already know that story from Blade Runner, reimagined Battlestar Galactica, and the new Westworld.

Aside from that I think I liked it. They tried to build and expand on previous events like Data's death or the destruction of Romulus and showed us the repercussions. Patrick Stewart's acting abilities alone probably make that show superior to Discovery, and it's nice to see Picard back in action again. I also found it very pleasing that it wasn't overloaded with action sequences, quiet drama being in the forefront instead.

Like I said, at first glance it's better than Discovery and probably better than Voyager and Enterprise as well.

There's also another hidden reference to the current (or past) refugee crisis other than the Romulan one resulting from the Supernova IMO:

The attack on Mars by the artificial intelligences are similar to the attacks on 9/11 carried out by Muslims.

Trump's travel ban on Muslims are similar to the ban of A.I. by the Federation.

Since Dahj is some kind of human/A.I. hybrid, she could be seen as some sort of Muslim refugee using todays standards.

That's essentially the same what BSG did with regards to the Cylons. Except that it was more relevant back then because it had only been a few years since 9/11.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 24, 2020, 09:11:58 AM
SPOILERS





After having watched the series premiere I think my main beef with that show is the extremely unoriginal backstory with the artificial intelligences rebelling against their creators and  subsequently being outlawed and/or persecuted. We already know that story from Blade Runner, reimagined Battlestar Galactica, and the new Westworld.

Aside from that I think I liked it. They tried to build and expand on previous events like Data's death or the destruction of Romulus and showed us the repercussions. Patrick Stewart's acting abilities alone probably make that show superior to Discovery, and it's nice to see Picard back in action again. I also found it very pleasing that it wasn't overloaded with action sequences, quiet drama being in the forefront instead.

Like I said, at first glance it's better than Discovery and probably better than Voyager and Enterprise as well.

There's also another hidden reference to the current (or past) refugee crisis other than the Romulan one resulting from the Supernova IMO:

The attack on Mars by the artificial intelligences are similar to the attacks on 9/11 carried out by Muslims.

Trump's travel ban on Muslims are similar to the ban of A.I. by the Federation.

Since Dahj is some kind of human/A.I. hybrid, she could be seen as some sort of Muslim refugee using todays standards.

That's essentially the same what BSG did with regards to the Cylons. Except that it was more relevant back then because it had only been a few years since 9/11.

I forgot to mention that "The Orville" did the same with the A.I. gone wild in that double-episode, who destroyed their creators (10 billion dead in a Terminator-style war).


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 24, 2020, 12:13:16 PM
SPIOLERS


























I just noticed something interesting:

In the 3-book comic series „Countdown: Picard“, it was revealed that Geordi LaForge took over the leading position at the Utopia Planitia ship building facility orbiting Mars.

The first episode now confirmed that Utopia Planitia was completely destroyed by rogue A.I. during the attack on Mars.

What happened with Geordi during the attack ?


Title: Re: Rate the new Star Trek Picard series
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on January 25, 2020, 05:51:51 AM
While a single episode probably isn't nearly sufficient to rate an entire series, I will give the first episode a "B".

If it holds this level of quality, I'd place the series somewhere in the middle field below TOS, TNG, and DS9, but above VOY, ENT, and DIS... well, perhaps on par with DS9.
DS9 is the best Trek series to date, tho not as good as B5. TNG depended on the quality of the season. Had it not had the Trek name, it never would've made it to a second season.


Title: Re: Rate the new Star Trek Picard series
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 25, 2020, 06:20:20 AM
While a single episode probably isn't nearly sufficient to rate an entire series, I will give the first episode a "B".

If it holds this level of quality, I'd place the series somewhere in the middle field below TOS, TNG, and DS9, but above VOY, ENT, and DIS... well, perhaps on par with DS9.
DS9 is the best Trek series to date, tho not as good as B5. TNG depended on the quality of the season. Had it not had the Trek name, it never would've made it to a second season.

True, but applies to DS9 as well.


Title: Re: Rate the new Star Trek Picard series
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on January 25, 2020, 12:49:39 PM
While a single episode probably isn't nearly sufficient to rate an entire series, I will give the first episode a "B".

If it holds this level of quality, I'd place the series somewhere in the middle field below TOS, TNG, and DS9, but above VOY, ENT, and DIS... well, perhaps on par with DS9.
DS9 is the best Trek series to date, tho not as good as B5. TNG depended on the quality of the season. Had it not had the Trek name, it never would've made it to a second season.

True, but applies to DS9 as well.

If anything, being Trek hurt DS9.  The weakest first season episodes were generally the ones where TNG characters made crossovers. (Aside from the pilot, where Sisko's distaste for Locutus of Picard was well used, but there, Picard was used purely in a cameo/supporting role rather than having the episode focusing on him.)


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: dbatche3 on January 25, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Having one of the new Romulan settlements be an old Borg cube is very interesting. I am curious to see what additional backstory we get on that.


Title: Re: Rate the new Star Trek Picard series
Post by: dbatche3 on January 26, 2020, 09:10:54 AM
I was satisfied when the episode ended, so I gave it an A, although in reality it was probably closer to an A-.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: afleitch on January 26, 2020, 01:06:28 PM
I loved it. No qualms about the pacing at all. I also loved lots of establishment shots of Earth 'now' (in terms of the timeline) which was really well done.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: John Dule on January 26, 2020, 03:27:42 PM
Will not watch. TOS all the way!!!1!


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Governor Sirius on January 26, 2020, 05:56:14 PM
Terms of Service is the best Star Trek!

Yes I know what that stands for

But why does that prevent you from watching this one?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: John Dule on January 26, 2020, 06:04:55 PM
Terms of Service is the best Star Trek!

Yes I know what that stands for

But why does that prevent you from watching this one?

Meh, I was never a fan of The Next Generation. I didn't care for Picard's leadership and I thought the cast as a whole was pretty bland and uninspiring. It might be unfair to compare them to the TOS cast, but even standing alone I didn't think they had much chemistry.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on January 27, 2020, 12:26:12 AM
Terms of Service is the best Star Trek!

Yes I know what that stands for

But why does that prevent you from watching this one?

Meh, I was never a fan of The Next Generation. I didn't care for Picard's leadership and I thought the cast as a whole was pretty bland and uninspiring. It might be unfair to compare them to the TOS cast, but even standing alone I didn't think they had much chemistry.

I recall the meme that was popular on the internet back when TNG came out. (Yes, there was an internet before there was a web, and I spent too much time on it then. USENET lives!)

TOS = Classic Coke
TAS = Diet Coke
TNG = New Coke
the films = Cherry Coke


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 27, 2020, 03:37:40 PM
BTW:

Episode 2 on Thursday is called "Maps and Legends".

Whatever this refers to ...

Here's my guess:

Picard attempts to find Soji in the Borg cube. After finding her, they travel to Mars or some other Mars-like planet (Vulcan ?), where Picard's former legendary #1 after Nemesis is now living/hiding etc. (Riker left the Enterprise for the Titan, so Picard needed a new #1, Michelle Hurd, probably a very nasty/badass, but likeable commander). Together with her and Soji, they will attempt to find Bruce Maddox, the A.I. scientist, who once wanted to disassemble Data - but failed - and later continued his studies on A.I. with the permission of Data and frequent correspondence with him.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 27, 2020, 03:49:05 PM
I also find it ironic that Maddox/The Federation's cybernetic department made the same mistake as Noonian Soong did with Lore, Data's brother, by creating an army of rogue, misguided synthetics ...

But well, "errors" happen.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on January 27, 2020, 09:15:11 PM
I also find it ironic that Maddox/The Federation's cybernetic department made the same mistake as Noonian Soong did with Lore, Data's brother, by creating an army of rogue, misguided synthetics ...

But well, "errors" happen.
Errors such as lazy writing?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 30, 2020, 01:55:00 PM
I have now seen Episode 2.

It continues to be really exciting, but it is also more tech-driven - which reminds me of the crappy Discovery.

Maybe there are just some episodes that resemble TNG and others that resemble Discovery more.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 31, 2020, 04:10:48 AM
SPOILERS







So, apparently the Romulans have some ancient taboo against the use of artificial intelligences, androids and so forth. And there's a millenia-old secret organization which both "loathes and fears" AIs, making sure that this taboo is upheld. At that point, I was inclined to yell at the screen: Because of the BUTLERIAN JIHAD???

(We also learned that episode that Picard reads Isaac Asmiov. So far no direct reference to Herbert though.)

I also started to wonder if and when events from Discovery's second season would come into play in Picard. The former had recently dealt with a rogue AI after all. Maybe a remnant of "Control" was responsible for the synths going haywire in Utopia Planitia??


Speaking of which.... Worf's name was also dropped in dialogue, making me wonder: If Michael Dorn were to appear on the show, would he know wear the make-up of the Discovery Klingons?? I sure as hell hope not. To redesign the Klingons for DIS was one of the most stupid decisions ever. Sure, their outlook had already been redesigned once during the 80s, but back then they only had been recurring villains. Now, two main characters (Worf/B'Elanna) and numerous important recurring characters (Gowron, Martok, Lursa & B'Etor, Kurn, Alexander and so on...) come from that race. I guess the existence of Star Trek: Picard wasn't really anticipated when Discovery was first developed.


The gradual introduction of the main cast continued in the second episode. This time: Michelle Hurd as Raffi Musiker. According to the trailer for next week we're finally gonna see Santiago Cabrera's character for the first time then. And also THE SHIP.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 31, 2020, 08:31:33 AM
SPOILERS







So, apparently the Romulans have some ancient taboo against the use of artificial intelligences, androids and so forth. And there's a millenia-old secret organization which both "loathes and fears" AIs, making sure that this taboo is upheld. At that point, I was inclined to yell at the screen: Because of the BUTLERIAN JIHAD???

(We also learned that episode that Picard reads Isaac Asmiov. So far no direct reference to Herbert though.)

I also started to wonder if and when events from Discovery's second season would come into play in Picard. The former had recently dealt with a rogue AI after all. Maybe a remnant of "Control" was responsible for the synths going haywire in Utopia Planitia??


Speaking of which.... Worf's name was also dropped in dialogue, making me wonder: If Michael Dorn were to appear on the show, would he know wear the make-up of the Discovery Klingons?? I sure as hell hope not. To redesign the Klingons for DIS was one of the most stupid decisions ever. Sure, their outlook had already been redesigned once during the 80s, but back then they only had been recurring villains. Now, two main characters (Worf/B'Elanna) and numerous important recurring characters (Gowron, Martok, Lursa & B'Etor, Kurn, Alexander and so on...) come from that race. I guess the existence of Star Trek: Picard wasn't really anticipated when Discovery was first developed.


The gradual introduction of the main cast continued in the second episode. This time: Michelle Hurd as Raffi Musiker. According to the trailer for next week we're finally gonna see Santiago Cabrera's character for the first time then. And also THE SHIP.

There were news reports that Worf would not look like Discovery’s Klingons if he were to return.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on January 31, 2020, 01:05:38 PM

I have now seen Episode 2 in English & German and here are some of my points:

(SPOILERS)

Utopia Planitia rampage and attack on Mars: the androids were bullied and mocked. One supervisor referred to them as "plastic people, let's go to work". In other words: they are slaves. When the Utopia Planitia crew was mocking the one that worked with them, something changed in his eyes and he killed all of them and started the attack on the orbital station and Mars itself. That is a metaphor for 9/11 and the mocking of Muslims and their ban afterwards. The Romulans, as you said, absolutely hate and fear all forms of A.I. for some reason. They are virtually the Hungarians of Star Trek (Israelis/Palestinians are also worth of a comparison). It is possible that someone inserted a code into the A.I. service workers that if they hear being mocked that they go into auto-destruct mode.

Another fact that appeared: Picard's doctor that is visiting him has a North African (Muslim ?) name and served as his doctor already on the "Stargazer".

I'm also heavily interested in the Federation/Romulan security structure of the year 2399:

It seems there is a Romulan Free State now and that the Tal Shiar and the Federation Security/Section 31 are now working together or they are even a single department.

I only noticed when I watched it in German that Lt. Rizzo was a secret Romulan (in human appearance) and that she and her Romulan team was responsible for killing Dahj in front of Picard on that staircase. Commodore Oh was reprimanding her because of it, because she "destroyed the thing before they could question her". Also, her brother Narek (also a Romulan) at the Borg Cube is Dahj's twin sister's lover and is out to "observe" her. He and his sister have been deployed to observe siblings/twins that are seen as a major threat to the Romulans (Ltd. Rizzo even refers to her as "scum".) That's a big plot twist.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 31, 2020, 05:19:21 PM
One can tell that you're really a bit obsessed with Muslims, right?

Btw, the doctor's name was "Moritz Benayoun".... Benayoun is a traditionally Hebrew/Jewish name which is indeed most prevalent among North African Jews and - due to heavy immigration from North Africa - among French Jews as well. Don't know whether it is a coincidence that the actor who portrayed him, David Paymer, is Jewish too - albeit not one of North African descent.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 01, 2020, 12:31:26 AM
One can tell that you're really a bit obsessed with Muslims, right?

Btw, the doctor's name was "Moritz Benayoun".... Benayoun is a traditionally Hebrew/Jewish name which is indeed most prevalent among North African Jews and - due to heavy immigration from North Africa - among French Jews as well. Don't know whether it is a coincidence that the actor who portrayed him, David Paymer, is Jewish too - albeit not one of North African descent.

Obsessed ? LOL, no.

Interesting that you think Moritz Benayoun is a Jewish name.

I thought it was a Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan name ...


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 02, 2020, 04:38:44 AM
I just had a thought that would cause great rejoicing if they did it, but even if they were willing, I doubt the actor who plays the character would consider it.

ST:P is in a position to do a Scooby Doo move and make use of an unpopular character in a popular way. Wesley Crusher is TNG's Scrappy Doo. Like what happened with Scrappy Doo in the Scooby Doo movie, make him the villain responsible for the synthetics going rogue, and everyone is happy, except for Wil Wheaton, which is why it'll never happen. Of course, they could bring back William A. Wallace (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/William_A._Wallace), who played an alternate version of Wesley in one episode, but that wouldn't be nearly as satisfying.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 06, 2020, 02:14:49 PM
I have just seen Episode 3 in English.

I need to wait for the German version because I didn’t understand everything (no subtitles), but I’d rate this episode at 12 points out of 10.

Very good mix of personal storytelling, character-building and technology.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 07, 2020, 10:02:06 AM
Did anyone else watch episode 3 as well ?

I still wonder what „The Destroyer“ means ...

The formerly assimilated Romulan woman in the mental facility ward says that Soji is the „Destroyer“ and that she knows her.

Soji says - subconsciously- that the Romulan woman was part of the last ship that the Borg cube assimilated before it was cut from the collective.

How does she know ? Only the Borg Queen would know that.

So, is Soji the Borg Queen ? Or Data’s „daughter“, created by Maddox ?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 07, 2020, 02:08:08 PM
Well, on Battlestar Galactica Kara Thrace was the "Harbinger of Death" so I'd imagine it's some similar hogwash. Seriously though, I have no idea.

Notable events in this episode:

- After a 26-year-absence from the Trek universe Jonathan Del Arco from the classic TNG episodes "I Borg" and "Descent" returns as the former Borg drone Hugh, now serving as the Executive Director of the Romulan Reclamation Project. Followin, Picard and Data he's the third previously established Trek character to appear on this show (as we know from the trailers three more are to follow this season).

- The Big Damn Heroes (Picard, Dr. Jurati, Rafi, and Captain Rios) are finally united on their show and are engaging the warp drive. Picard does indeed say "Engage" for the first time in the show, although he does have to relinquish the captain's chair to Rios. Since pretty much everybody on that show seems to have a dark and troubled past, Rios is no different. I wonder what his secret is and whether it ties in with the other plot lines on the show.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 08, 2020, 12:32:08 AM
Well, on Battlestar Galactica Kara Thrace was the "Harbinger of Death" so I'd imagine it's some similar hogwash. Seriously though, I have no idea.

Notable events in this episode:

- After a 26-year-absence from the Trek universe Jonathan Del Arco from the classic TNG episodes "I Borg" and "Descent" returns as the former Borg drone Hugh, now serving as the Executive Director of the Romulan Reclamation Project. Followin, Picard and Data he's the third previously established Trek character to appear on this show (as we know from the trailers three more are to follow this season).

- The Big Damn Heroes (Picard, Dr. Jurati, Rafi, and Captain Rios) are finally united on their show and are engaging the warp drive. Picard does indeed say "Engage" for the first time in the show, although he does have to relinquish the captain's chair to Rios. Since pretty much everybody on that show seems to have a dark and troubled past, Rios is no different. I wonder what his secret is and whether it ties in with the other plot lines on the show.

„The Destroyer“ (or Seb-Cheneb) could also be a Romulan religious figure from the ancient times, which could explain the deep Romulan hatred for artificial intelligence ... (did A.I. or the Borg cause the Supernova ?)

Basically, many Romulans could be religious extremists.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: dbatche3 on February 09, 2020, 08:24:10 AM
Episode 3 was stronger than Episode 2, I thought. Whatever secrets the Romulans learned when they were assimilated, it was enough to make them all go insane. They weren’t kidding when they said the secret would break your brain...


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 09, 2020, 08:59:59 AM
Episode 3 was stronger than Episode 2, I thought.

Yeah, agree with this. I'd rank the episodes like this: 1 > 3 > 2.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 13, 2020, 12:57:15 PM
Just seen Episode 4 in English.

A „Game of Thrones“ moment, „White Supremacy“ and someone interesting beaming on board.

Also, the Narissa/Rizzo woman is a very cool character, deceiving and full of intrigue, but cool.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 13, 2020, 03:13:40 PM
This episode had two noteworthy fanservice moments with a TOS-era Romulan Bird-of-Prey appearing and Seven of Nine finally returning.

With Elnor and Seven on board the crew also seems to be complete for now. We'll have to wait and see whether Soji and Narek will join them too eventually, Narek's loyalties at least seem to be a bit conflicted. I think I like the running gag of Rios' multiple holographic doppelgängers. I wonder how many of them will pop up eventually.

Today I also had a bit a feeling to not watch Star Trek anymore, but a cross between Star Wars and Firefly. That Western-like Romulan refugee planet certainly remained me of Firefly. With Rios I also got a bit of a Han Solo-vibe and according to the trailer for next week Freecloud will turn out to be a "casino planet".


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 14, 2020, 04:15:03 AM
Here btw is an article on the similarities between Star Trek: Picard and Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope:

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/star-trek-picard-spoilers-star-wars-luke-skywalker-new-hope

Picard is essentially Obi-Wan Kenobi, Rios is Han Solo, and Soji is Leia who needs to be found and rescued from the Death Star Borg cube.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 20, 2020, 01:59:40 PM
I have now seen Episode 5 (in English).

The episode starts with a shocking/heartbreaking scene for Voyager lovers and explains much of the rest that follows ...

The interactions between Picard and Seven Of Nine reminded me of the good old TNG and Voyager days, especially when they talked about returning from the Borg Collective.

Freecloud is indeed a Casino Planet similar to Las Vegas. I find it fitting that this episode aired just ahead of the NV caucus ... ;)

I also liked the professional undercover acting stunt by the crew to free Bruce Maddox. But wtf was going on with Dr. Jurati at the end ? Didn’t expect that.

(Also, doing drugs is a bad thing for yourself, but also for the ones around you ...)


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 21, 2020, 12:39:34 PM
Another interesting new character was Bjayzl.

She reminded me of the Borg Queen, even though I doubt it really was the Borg Queen.

She called Seven of Nine by her birth name Annika, which not a lot of people know. On the other hand, she didn’t recognize Picard (Locutus) and only later was told that it is him.

Maybe Bjayzl and her actions are a metaphor for the Borg Queen, similar to how Beelzebub is a reference to the Devil.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bjayzl


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 21, 2020, 01:31:11 PM
At first I thought that Bjayzl was Deanna Troi, because both women look almost completely identical.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 21, 2020, 03:04:39 PM
At first I thought that Bjayzl was Deanna Troi, because both women look almost completely identical.

Yeah, me too.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: RI on February 21, 2020, 05:33:50 PM
Picard is... not good. The writing is just godawful.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 22, 2020, 05:06:03 AM
Picard is... not good. The writing is just godawful.

Personally, I thought that the premiere episode was the strongest and this week's episode was the weakest so far. So overall the show is getting worse, unfortunately. I hope that downward trend stops at some point, be it with its already greenlit second season. Discovery'a second season was also a bit better than its first IMO.

It's noteworthy that Pulitzer Prize for Fiction winner Michael Chabon is Picard's showrumner and was to some extent involved in writing four of its five already released episodes. Go figure. Writing novels and writing a TV show are fundamentally different things, I guess.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 22, 2020, 10:24:06 AM
Picard is... not good. The writing is just godawful.

Personally, I thought that the premiere episode was the strongest and this week's episode was the weakest so far. So overall the show is getting worse, unfortunately. I hope that downward trend stops at some point, be it with its already greenlit second season. Discovery'a second season was also a bit better than its first IMO.

It's noteworthy that Pulitzer Prize for Fiction winner Michael Chabon is Picard's showrumner and was to some extent involved in writing four of its five already released episodes. Go figure. Writing novels and writing a TV show are fundamentally different things, I guess.

Yeah, I get the impression that it's becoming more like a "Picavery".

They should throw out the current writers and producers and replace them with Seth MacFarlane for Season 2 and dump CBS for FOX as well.

FOX makes better Star Trek (= The Orville).


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 27, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Episode 6 already.

This one was more about the Borg and Picardˋs past with them. He’s still very much traumatized by their assimilation.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 27, 2020, 04:19:15 PM
After the recent downward trend it seemed like this show finally managed to get its sh**t together again this week. Possibly the best episode since the premiere.

In retrospect, maybe the problem was that they wasted too much time on the "the crew gets together" stuff which took the entirety of the first four episodes. Picard should have arrived at the Borg cube in Episode 3, not Episode 6 IMO.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 28, 2020, 02:36:20 PM
Episode 6 already.

This one was more about the Borg and Picardˋs past with them. He’s still very much traumatized by their assimilation.

After the recent downward trend it seemed like this show finally managed to get its sh**t together again this week. Possibly the best episode since the premiere.

In retrospect, maybe the problem was that they wasted too much time on the "the crew gets together" stuff which took the entirety of the first four episodes. Picard should have arrived at the Borg cube in Episode 3, not Episode 6 IMO.



SPOILERS



I have now seen the episode in German as well.

A fairly good episode in hindsight.

It brings to a close the Romulan intrigue and investigation against the twin-daughters Dahj and Soji, by finding out her secret (she's an android who appears to have been created on a planet orbited by 2 red moons).

The Romulan Tal Shiar/Zhat Vash want to find the planet and destroy it or whatever other androids are on there.

Narek (not his real name), after finding out her secret, tried to kill her with the "Impossible Box" (title name of the episode), a device similar to a rubic cube who also resembles the device seen in "Nemesis" who killed the Romulan Senate members.

He still seems kinda sorry for her "death" (doesn't happen) and I'm still not sure which side he'll eventually be on ...

Other points I noticed:

* the Borg Queen cell: the Borg aquired a long-range transportation device (a so-called spatial trajector with up to 40.000 light years range) by assimilation of a species called the Sikarians. The Sikarians were already encountered by the Voyager in 2371, so their assimilation by the Borg must have happened after that.

* Soji knows that the range of the device is 40.000 light years. Why ? Is she a former Borg ? Does she have Borg collective memory ? Is she the Borg Queen ?

* Picard and Soji are transported to a planet called "Nepenthe", which is the title of the episode #7. Nepenthe is Greek for "drug to forget all sorrow". In episode 7, Will Riker and Deanna Troy will appear for the first time, while Picard and Soji are hunted by the Romulan sibling pair Narek and Narissa.

Episode Summary (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Impossible_Box_(episode))


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 28, 2020, 09:02:53 PM

* Soji knows that the range of the device is 40.000 light years. Why ? Is she a former Borg ? Does she have Borg collective memory ? Is she the Borg Queen ?

It was specified in the episode of ST:V'ger where Voyager encountered the Sikarans that the spacial trajector has a range of 40,000 light years, so that info would be known to the Federation.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on February 29, 2020, 12:23:09 AM
* Soji knows that the range of the device is 40.000 light years. Why ? Is she a former Borg ? Does she have Borg collective memory ? Is she the Borg Queen ?

It was specified in the episode of ST:V'ger where Voyager encountered the Sikarans that the spacial trajector has a range of 40,000 light years, so that info would be known to the Federation.

True.

If the Federation has the records, she might not be affiliated with the Borg.

Anyway: I have now started reading the official book (Picard: the last and only hope. 420 pages). After 40 pages, Picard already had conversations with Worf, Beverly and LaForge - something that didn’t happen in the TV series so far. Why not stick to the script ?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 03, 2020, 11:35:08 AM
Pics from Episode 7 ("Nepenthe"):

()

()


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 05, 2020, 01:41:39 PM
Just watched "Nepenthe".

This 7th episode was probably the best so far (even better than episode one).

It was a matured version of TNG which makes the heart grow fond for a fan of the old series.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 05, 2020, 04:58:51 PM
Second solid episode in a row, I'm keeping fingers crossed that this means that the show truly managed to get its act together now.

Bringing Riker and Troi back means a hefty portion of nostalgia, in an episode that almost exclusively consists of quiet drama (except for a brief action sequence on the Borg cube) similar to the series premiere.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 06, 2020, 02:03:14 PM
For those who have seen „Nepenthe“ and the preview for episode 8:





























What’s with the synths who destroyed (a Romulan ?) star system planet or Romulus itself ?

When was this planet destroyed ?

Who were these synths ?

Why did the Romulans go insane during the attack and why again during the Borg assimilation ?

In the preview we see a subspace rift opening up with either radiation or ships coming through, which looked very similar to Borg or Species 8472 subspace rifts ...

The episode 8 write-up mentions that „the truth“ about the synth attack on Mars will be revealed and this is very likely connected to the synth attack on the Romulan planet.



Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 08, 2020, 03:37:08 AM
()

;)


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 13, 2020, 11:45:32 AM
Going to watch episode 8 now in English and then German ...


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 13, 2020, 01:18:06 PM
Going to watch episode 8 now in English and then German ...

Another pretty good episode, which revealed a lot about the plot starting in the first episode.

Also, hearing the "WE ARE THE BORG !" tune again was great.

The side-story with the 5 holograms was also entertaining.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 17, 2020, 02:54:27 PM
Episode 9+10 (the final ones) will be a 2-part ending („Et in Arcadia ego“ l+ll).

It will feature a return to Soji‘s home world Coppelius.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 20, 2020, 05:01:05 AM
I have now seen Episode 9 in both English and German.

It definitely had a resemblance with the TNG double-episode "Descent", in which Data's brother Lore commanded a fascist Borg uprising, to destroy all organic life - thinking the Borg and other A.I. were the "superior" lifeforms.

In this episode, Soji is returning home to her people of androids and eventually backs the plans of her "sister" Sutra, who wants to destroy all organic life to protect the synths from being destroyed by them.

Sutra's character and fascist logic are very similar to Lore's in "Descent" and both Soji and Data are first following their sister/brother - but might end up being on the right side again ... (at least Data was).

Even the settings/film locations were quite similar in both this episode and "Descent": some kind of lab/settlement on a hill in a desert-style environment (probably both episodes were filmed in rural CA). The Borg Cube being downed by those flowers/orchids was also very stylish and fascinating.

In general, I'd rate the first season now as a solid B+ (after 9/10 episodes).


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Lumine on March 21, 2020, 01:32:26 AM
After three very strong episodes I was very disappointed in Episode 9, not exactly looking forward to seeing how they solve that narrative mess in the second part of the finale. Pacing issues are really dragging down the show, what with the plot and the character introduction having been excessively slow in the first half only to enter frantic overdrive now.

Also, I really hope they don't go with a Dr. Soong is Lore kind of twist, I was sick of that character in TNG and it would be a lame narrative decision.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 21, 2020, 03:55:22 AM
After three very strong episodes I was very disappointed in Episode 9, not exactly looking forward to seeing how they solve that narrative mess in the second part of the finale. Pacing issues are really dragging down the show, what with the plot and the character introduction having been excessively slow in the first half only to enter frantic overdrive now.

Also, I really hope they don't go with a Dr. Soong is Lore kind of twist, I was sick of that character in TNG and it would be a lame narrative decision.

A simple tricorder scan would reveal if Dr. Soong is Lore, or not.

Anyway, I guess that Episode 9's Dr. Soong is not Lore (for reasons I stated above).

I also hope that someone cures Picard's terminal illness, but there's also speculation that Picard could die in the final episode and that his mind is implanted into a synth that is developed by Soong and Jurati, in which case Picard would live on as an A.I. lifeform. This theory is a bit unlikely though, because I guess Picard would not accept to do so.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on March 21, 2020, 10:00:50 AM
Come now, if they write themselves into a corner that can only be solved by a deus ex machina, Q is the obvious choice, even if would cause some Discord among fans who are both Trekkers and Bronies.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Mr. Morden on March 27, 2020, 12:15:27 AM
Man, that finale was pretty awful.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 27, 2020, 01:22:21 AM

I still need to watch it in German, but it was not unexpected.

Considering Picardˋs artificial heart replacement, the final episode events would fit earlier storylines.

The battle scenes were also pretty good IMO, with a special guest appearing again.

I guess we will need to wait until 2021 or 2022 for Season 2, because filming cannot take place this year.

()


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 27, 2020, 06:02:30 AM
Final verdict:

Star Trek: Picard remains a mixed bag. Some episodes are good (specifically #1, 6, 7, and 8 ), others suffer from the same flaws Discovery does. The incoherent script quality puts it all over the place. I hope they'll be able to work out the kinks in Season 2.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 27, 2020, 04:49:21 PM
Final verdict:

Star Trek: Picard remains a mixed bag. Some episodes are good (specifically #1, 6, 7, and 8 ), others suffer from the same flaws Discovery does. The incoherent script quality puts it all over the place. I hope they'll be able to work out the kinks in Season 2.

With further consideration I'd like to add that Picard seems to be at its best when it focuses on "quiet character drama" (e.g. the episodes Remembrance, Nepenthe).

The farther the show deviates from that formula the likelier it is that it turns into an incoherent mess filled with worn-out action movie clichés (see the stupid Seven/Narissa catfight in the final episode). Picard really isn't that good doing action episodes.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Lumine on March 27, 2020, 05:35:33 PM
That was a frustrating finale, certainly. Good in some aspects, incomprehensible in others.

As far as first seasons go Picard is certainly going to rank above other Star Trek counterparts (god are there lots of bad first seasons), but it can be frustrating to realize it could have been so much better without requiring too many alterations.

With further consideration I'd like to add that Picard seems to be at its best when it focuses on "quiet character drama" (e.g. the episodes Remembrance, Nepenthe).

I strongly agree with that, and action is really not what the show should - ideally - be about.

If anything, one of the many reasons why the TNG movies are so bad and unpresentative of the show is that they ramp up the action (which on by itself isn't very credible) to excessive levels, turning Picard into something that he's not (allegedly at Stewart's behest, who wanted to be more of an action hero). A similar logic applies here, but to the show itself rather than the character.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on March 27, 2020, 08:30:49 PM
I haven't posted in this thread before, but I did watch the show, and mostly liked it. I enjoyed most of the characters, although some (such as Narek) really started to piss me off eventually. I know a lot of lifelong Trekkies (I'm not one, although I like what I've seen of the other shows) really felt disoriented and even betrayed by the premise of Starfleet being infiltrated by a xenophobic hate group and the Federation taking an isolationist turn because of it, but I thought it was timely, and the show has plenty of characters in whom the Federation's ideals still live (from Picard himself on down).

I agree that the finale was kind of a mess, but it introduced some interesting ideas. Maybe the second season will do more with them.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 28, 2020, 05:33:59 AM
I haven't posted in this thread before, but I did watch the show, and mostly liked it. I enjoyed most of the characters, although some (such as Narek) really started to piss me off eventually. I know a lot of lifelong Trekkies (I'm not one, although I like what I've seen of the other shows) really felt disoriented and even betrayed by the premise of Starfleet being infiltrated by a xenophobic hate group and the Federation taking an isolationist turn because of it, but I thought it was timely, and the show has plenty of characters in whom the Federation's ideals still live (from Picard himself on down).

I agree that the finale was kind of a mess, but it introduced some interesting ideas. Maybe the second season will do more with them.

Yeah, Starfleet apparently went full Trump/BoJo due to Russian Romulan infiltration. :O


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: afleitch on March 28, 2020, 05:43:39 AM
I liked the series as a whole. I think the finale touched on issues of fate and mortality in a very TNG way. I loved the new crew and I am genuinely excited for the next season.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on March 28, 2020, 04:08:39 PM
I haven't posted in this thread before, but I did watch the show, and mostly liked it. I enjoyed most of the characters, although some (such as Narek) really started to piss me off eventually. I know a lot of lifelong Trekkies (I'm not one, although I like what I've seen of the other shows) really felt disoriented and even betrayed by the premise of Starfleet being infiltrated by a xenophobic hate group and the Federation taking an isolationist turn because of it, but I thought it was timely, and the show has plenty of characters in whom the Federation's ideals still live (from Picard himself on down).

I agree that the finale was kind of a mess, but it introduced some interesting ideas. Maybe the second season will do more with them.

Yeah, Starfleet apparently went full Trump/BoJo due to Russian Romulan infiltration. :O

I thought the Romulan infiltration aspect was kind of a cop-out tbh. Is it really that unbelievable that there's a bigoted, hateful political minority within the Federation with the means and motive for this sort of entryism?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on March 29, 2020, 03:31:56 AM
"Star Trek: Picard" is the dark reboot that boldly goes where nobody wanted it to

Quote
It is the year 2364, and Jean-Luc Picard – the revered captain of the USS Enterprise – has just come face to face with three humans who have been frozen in time since the late 20th century. By this point in the story – the 1988 finale of the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation – he has met Klingons, Romulans, a pool of black goo, but nothing is as alien as these greedy, selfish relics.

This is Star Trek, after all: the pop-culture behemoth built on the idealistic future envisioned in the 60s by its creator Gene Roddenberry. “A lot has changed in the past 300 years,” Picard tells them. “People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We’ve eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We’ve grown out of our infancy.”

Or have we? Revisiting the character 30 years later in Star Trek: Picard, Patrick Stewart’s grand return to the role at the age of 79, it seems the world has not progressed as much as we were led to believe. Set during a time in which the Federation – a union of planets with shared democratic values and interests – has turned isolationist in response to a terror attack, it has proved to be a divisively dark, gritty and morally bleak take on the Star Trek universe. Episode five opens with a beloved character screaming as his eye is ripped out of his skull. In another scene, a Starfleet admiral tells Picard – the great, heroic captain Picard, a man whose voice is built like a beautiful cathedral – to “shut the f**k up”.

The reaction, understandably, has been mixed. Some fans welcome Star Trek being brought up to date with the look and feel of contemporary television. Others maintain that such pessimism is at odds with what makes Star Trek Star Trek. The showrunner Michael Chabon, responding to questions via his Instagram page, defended Picard against the latter claim by saying that “shadow defines light”, that “if nothing can rock the Federation’s perfection, then it’s just a magical land”. It is a sentiment that has been echoed in the past by Alex Kurtzman, the showrunner of the other ongoing series set in the same universe, Star Trek: Discovery. He justified its equally violent, profane and dark sensibility by maintaining that modern Star Trek is simply a reflection of its time.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/mar/27/star-trek-picard-is-the-dark-reboot-that-boldly-goes-where-nobody-wanted-it-to

Fully agree.

There were episodes where it strongly resembled the shi**y "Discovery", full with blinding lights (the Oh-Rizzo dialogue at the start of the season was so crappy and badly shot you couldn't even watch them without those blinding lights).

They should build on episodes like "Nepenthe" in Season 2.


Title: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: Tender Branson on April 06, 2020, 01:00:21 AM
I give it a B to B-, but there’s lots of improvements to be made for the 2nd season in 2021.


Title: Re: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: brucejoel99 on April 06, 2020, 01:24:13 AM
A.


Title: Re: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: Tender Branson on April 06, 2020, 01:53:15 AM

I cannot rate it A because there were too many directing mistakes or Kurtzman-ish style errors.

For example, when Rizzo and Oh were speaking in the Starfleet room at the beginning of the Series, the whole room was flooded with light - blinding lights everywhere. You couldn’t even see the actors at some points. The same for „camera“/CGI shots in space. Those shots look very unprofessional.


Title: Re: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: brucejoel99 on April 06, 2020, 02:27:03 AM

I cannot rate it A because there were too many directing mistakes or Kurtzman-ish style errors.

For example, when Rizzo and Oh were speaking in the Starfleet room at the beginning of the Series, the whole room was flooded with light - blinding lights everywhere. You couldn’t even see the actors at some points. The same for „camera“/CGI shots in space. Those shots look very unprofessional.

Eh, production mistakes don't really faze as much as they should. I just really loved the show. It was an intriguing, exciting, fun ride. I enjoyed all of the characters & the overall story kept me on the edge of my seat.


Title: Re: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on April 06, 2020, 06:38:07 PM
From what I've heard of it, it exemplified the worst of ST:TNG seasoned with a parody of the worst of ST:V'ger. I may still someday watch it, but I'm in no hurry to spend money to do so. At least it wasn't Discovery or Enterprise.


Title: Re: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: RI on April 06, 2020, 09:11:51 PM
Dreadful. F.


Title: Re: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 06, 2020, 09:15:20 PM
B or low B+ as its own thing. I might revise it downwards once I see more of the previous Star Trek shows whose legacies it apparently did controversial things with.


Title: Re: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on April 06, 2020, 09:37:35 PM
B or low B+ as its own thing. I might revise it downwards once I see more of the previous Star Trek shows whose legacies it apparently did controversial things with.

To say V'ger ever had a legacy worth worrying about is silly. TNG did have some passable moments, but its own movies did so much damage to its legacy already that we got the Abramsverse instead.


Title: Re: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on April 06, 2020, 09:39:15 PM
B or low B+ as its own thing. I might revise it downwards once I see more of the previous Star Trek shows whose legacies it apparently did controversial things with.

To say V'ger ever had a legacy worth worrying about is silly.

In that case, I know a number of silly Star Trek fans.


Title: Re: In hindsight, how do you rate Season 1 of „Star Trek Picard“ ?
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on April 06, 2020, 11:28:10 PM
B or low B+ as its own thing. I might revise it downwards once I see more of the previous Star Trek shows whose legacies it apparently did controversial things with.

To say V'ger ever had a legacy worth worrying about is silly.

In that case, I know a number of silly Star Trek fans.

V'ger in my opinion wasn't just bad SF, it was bad Star Trek. Not that every episode was bad, but the ones involving changing the time stream were especially bad, worse than Season 3 of TOS or Season 2 of TNG, and at least those both had external factors that contributed to their crappitude.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on April 11, 2020, 02:17:21 AM
LOL:

()


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: brucejoel99 on April 11, 2020, 02:56:00 AM

2020: Queen Elizabeth II

2364: Admiral Elizabeth II


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Mr. Morden on April 11, 2020, 11:39:41 PM
Since I guess we're posting TNG memes now, you guys should check out my new favorite Youtube channel, "Ryan's Edits".  Some hilarious (short) TNG videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgPy2kU9nEk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7oWXooPT80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csbSoyzOjm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HqSH2HYA8g


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on April 18, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Production won't start for at least until the fall for Season 2 because of the virus, but there are 4 actors that are currently rumoured to return in the next season:

* Whoopi Goldberg (Guinan)
* LeVar Burton (Geordi)
* Michael Dorn (Worf)
* Rosario Dawson (wants to play "Q")

Dawson is also Cory Booker's girlfriend.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on May 05, 2020, 02:24:49 PM
Important:

Jonathan Frakes Reveals If Data And Borg Queen Had Sex In "Star Trek: First Contact"

Quote
IGN recently hosted a watchalong party of Star Trek: First Contact, with actor/director Jonathan Frakes on hand to answer fans’ questions for the duration of the movie by way of a live Q&A. One of the most interesting revelations to come from the chat was Frakes’ clarification of a long-held fan debate: did Data and the Borg Queen do it?

In the movie, Data is kidnapped by the Borg Queen who attempts to win him over to her side. She reactivates his emotional chip and grafts human skin onto his face, with the aim to make him feel a range of emotions – from pain to pleasure. At one point, she seduces him, with the android explaining that he’s “fully-functional” and “programmed with multiple techniques.” The last we see of them they’re locked in a passionate embrace. But did things go further?

According to Frakes, you bet they did. When asked if it would be safe to assume the pair had sex off-screen, the filmmaker said “I would,” before asserting in clear terms that “yes,” they did the deed. So, there you have it, 24 years later we’ve finally got this question answered.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/jonathan-frakes-confirms-data-borg-queen-sex-star-trek-contact


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR) on May 06, 2020, 03:40:23 AM
Red Letter Media are the best reviewers on youtube.



Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (starts Jan. 23, 2020)
Post by: Tender Branson on June 09, 2020, 03:12:37 PM
California will allow film production again this week, so production for Season 2 will start soon and filming in the fall (according to Jeri Ryan).


Title: Star Trek figures: gender swap
Post by: Tender Branson on June 18, 2020, 01:19:29 PM
:o

Wesline Crusher, Jamie T. Kirk, Jeanne-Lucile Picard & Co:

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Title: Re: Star Trek figures: gender swap
Post by: John Dule on June 18, 2020, 01:38:59 PM
You need to stop posting this stuff.


Title: Re: Star Trek figures: gender swap
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on June 19, 2020, 11:16:10 AM
Tender swap? ???


Title: Re: Star Trek figures: gender swap
Post by: Tender Branson on June 19, 2020, 12:18:46 PM

()


Title: Re: Star Trek figures: gender swap
Post by: T'Chenka on June 19, 2020, 06:50:09 PM
No babe threads Wesline and Jamie T are drop dead.

Megathread compromise so Dule doesn't get triggered?


Title: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Tender Branson on October 16, 2020, 08:10:09 AM
Just watched episode 1 and it’s:

The worst Star Trek I have ever seen.

Discovery is an abomination and not worthy of the genre. Some scenes were good and the beautiful scenery of Iceland was making up for the crappy action scenes, but other than that it was a failure.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on October 16, 2020, 08:35:44 AM
I'll probably never become much of a fan of this show. It's not that bad of a series, but also not a particularly good one. Kind of... average.

Season 2 was for the most part an improvement over Season 1. The new season seems to be largely ripping off Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda plot-wise, although it will probably turn out to be a tad better than its spiritual precursor (not that this is a particularly high bar, consdidering what a trainwreck "Sorbo Trek" had been.)

This Season 3 premiere had two particularly cheesy, cringe-worthy segments: Burnham being drugged and the overly pathos-laden Federation flag-raising scene at the end. The introduction of the new character (and obvious Burnham love interest) Book was an interesting subversion of long-standing tropes though. In the beginning he seemed like a kind of Han Solo, a smuggler and thief without any moral code or compass. Turns out he's sort of an 32nd century environmentalist who's acting rough because he's operating in a rough world (I guess that accounts as an application of the "Good All Along" trope: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodAllAlong).



The season premiere was hardly worse than And the Children Shall Lead, Shades of Gray, The Muse, or Threshold.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Mr. Morden on October 18, 2020, 08:30:26 PM
Definitely not the worst I've seen, but yeah, pretty blah.  Not really notable enough to spend much time talking about.  Star Trek in general hasn't been very good since the 20th century, IMHO.  I'm just marking time until December, when we get the season premiere of Season 5 of The Expanse.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: RI on October 19, 2020, 12:23:23 PM
Star Trek in general hasn't been very good since the 20th century, IMHO.

Enterprise was pretty solid, IMO.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on October 20, 2020, 04:50:47 AM
Star Trek in general hasn't been very good since the 20th century, IMHO.

Enterprise was pretty solid, IMO.

It's last two seasons anyway... but by then most viewers had already turned off.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: dead0man on October 20, 2020, 06:28:03 AM
when do you guys think was "peak" Star Trek.  Mid to late Next Generation is my favorite, but I haven't seen much DS9 or Voyager.


I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but me and the wife are slowly watching our way through everything Star Trek, starting from the beginning.  We've got a dozen or so episodes left of the original series and it's real hard to watch.  I respect the fact that they were first (or at least early) and didn't have much of a budget, but sheesh.  Spock/Nimoy is the only thing good about it....sometimes the writing isn't bad.  Oh, and the outfits the alien ladies often wear are nice...but Kirk/Shatner is hot garbage.  Most of the writing is sh**t, but it pairs well with the sh**t acting.  Don't get me started on the stage make up they all wear (we were like 8 episodes when I noticed everyone had on heavy eye shadow, like they were prostitutes in the 80s and now we can't not see it.  It's hard to take someone serious when they're wearing purple eye make up.).


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on October 20, 2020, 07:14:21 AM
when do you guys think was "peak" Star Trek.  Mid to late Next Generation is my favorite, but I haven't seen much DS9 or Voyager.

Seasons 3 and 4 of TNG was Star Trek's overall high point IMO. 5 and 6 were also relatively strong, but by the 7th fatigue had set in.

Depending on who you ask, DS9 was also pretty strong, but very different in style, tone and structure from the shows that came before and immediately after. That's why I wrote "depending on who ask", because that show also managed to divide traditional fans of the franchise: Darker, less utopian, more conflicts (both among the crew and between the powers of the galaxy), increasingly serialized structure, mostly space station-based rather than on a starship, topics and issues that so far hadn't really been touched by the franchise like religious faith or large-scale warfare. Seasons 1 and 2 of DS9 were still pretty bland and sometimes outright boring. So, it's a bit hard to get through them, but by the 3rd season the show managed to find its footing, with the introduction of a new enemy and a new starship.

Voyager is overall weaker than any of its precursors. Most of the time it tried to emulate TNG, but with more action-driven plots and somewhat weaker scripts. For a long time, I just regarded it as a dumbed down version of The Next Generation, although considering what the franchise has put out in most recent years it's now more in the middle of the franchise quality-wise rather than at the bottom. Seasons 4 and 5 - and maybe 6 - were probably Voyager's high point. Voyager's specialty were the two-parters, of which it did a total of twelve during it's seven-year run. These two-part epsiodes usually told grander, more epic stories and used the show's more action-driven formula to the fullest extent. Commonly held opinion is that the best of these were Scorpion (probably THE best Voyager episodes as well as two of the best episodes in the overall franchise), Year of Hell, and Dark Frontier.

Much of what I just wrote about Voyager also applies to Enterprise, at least in its first two seasons and maybe in a somewhat blander fashion. With declining ratings, it took a hard turn in its second half though. Season 3 somewhat resembles DS9 by introducing a new, dangerous enemy and suddenly switching to a military conflict-driven serialized structure out of the blue. For most part, the quality of the show noticeably improved during that year. Season 4 is then a bit of an oddball. For the most part, it's essentially a 20-episode long hommage to TOS, picking up plot points from the earliest show in the franchise, building and expanding on them and giving a more modern look and feel than TOS had. Season 4 also had the most unusual structure of any season of Trek, since it almost exlusively consists of two-parters and three-parters. Like in Voyager's case that gives the episodes a much more epic feel.

The most recents incarnations of the franchise, Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks were overall probably weaker than all the shows outlined above, but I'm gonna refrain from doing a lengthy review of them right now.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Citizen (The) Doctor on October 20, 2020, 11:27:35 AM
Mid-late TNG and everything past season 2 of DS9 are probably Star Trek at its peak. I'd even wager that if S3-7 of DS9 were released today (minus the fluff on things like Ira Steven Behr's obsession with the 50s), it'd be popular on a near GoT scale (okay maybe that's a bit hyperbolic, but it would be a damn good show).


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 21, 2020, 09:01:07 AM
After having seen 10 of the 13 episodes now I gotta say that the third season of Star Trek: Discovery is not only this series' worst season so far, but probably one of the weakest in the entire franchise's history, right up with the first seasons of TNG or DS9.

During its second season, I had the impression that Discovery managed to work out some of the kinks and started to improve itself. The first couple of episodes of the current Season 3 also continued to show some promise. But it peaked with and then suddenly fell apart after the fifth episode ("Die Trying"). Everything that came after that point - episodes 6 through 10 - has been just atrocious.

One of the main issues with the season's plotting is obviously that they solved the initial mystery of "what's left of the Federation and where are they hiding?" way too quickly, because that one was quickly checked off with the aforementioned episode "Die Trying". And then everything went downhill.

They are now somehow looking for the "cause of the Burn", an apocalyptic event in the Federation's history that led to an almost complete collapse of Starfleet. Seemingly sounds interesting at first glance, but sometimes they're getting totally distracted from that supposedly significant issue with inane and pointless subplots. But even when they manage to stay on course with the main arc for a week or so I often wonder why I should care about finding the "cause of the Burn". The way it was presented so far, it just didn't catch my interest. Characterisations also seem all over the place, with most characters having become incoherent cardboards chewing out cheesy and clichè-ridden lines of dialogue.

Kill that show already, put it out of its misery. Unfortunately, it has already been renewed for a fourth season. So, this leaves me with the choice of hoping that it manages to pull itself together again somehow or just stop watching it. There's also the new Captain Pike spin-off Strange New Worlds incoming. I hope that one won't turn out to be a similar trainwreck. At least Anson Mount with his "easygoing yet competent" portrayal of Pike had charisma and screen presence.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 24, 2020, 07:12:03 PM
Episode 11. The "cause of the Burn" is finally revealed and it turns out as lame and illogical as the preceding search for it.

There's a planet which - for some reason - consists entirely of Dilithium. And on this planet there's also for some reason a malfunctioning Holodeck entraping you in gothic horror/haunted house-like scenarios. And in this malfunctioning holodeck lived an orphaned child who for some reason mutated due to the extensive Dilithium "radiation" around him, giving him the ability to make all the Dilithium in the galaxy simultanously explode in sort of a temper tantrum. Which led to the apocalyptic collapse of almost the entire Federation more than 100 years ago. On top of that, all of this was presented and told in a very tedious and boring story.

The child is now an adult, but obviously not quite right in his mind given where and how it grew up. But, attention is quickly shifted to other things then, namely that the crew of Discovery now needs to fight the thugs of the Andorian-Orion organized crime syndicate which for some reason had been the entity filling the power vaccum following the collapse of the Federation.

Somehow I had the feeling that I was watching an episode of the cheesy and ludicrous Space: 1999 from the mid-70s. If I'm not too busy maybe I'm gonna watch Season 3's final two episodes too and then I'll probably gonna quit on Discovery.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Tender Branson on December 30, 2020, 11:53:39 AM
After this disappointment, we can only hope that Picard Season 2 will be as good as the 1st.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Mr. Morden on December 30, 2020, 03:41:58 PM
After this disappointment, we can only hope that Picard Season 2 will be as good as the 1st.

I was reasonably engaged for much of Picard Season 1's duration, but the last couple of episodes were dreadful, IMHO.  I think the season finale was such a dumb way to resolve that plot line that I lost brain cells watching it.  I'll give that show at least one more season, but I'll probably stop watching Discovery after this season unless the final episodes really wow me.

The Expanse is just so much better than any of 21st century Trek IMHO.  No need for me to spend that much more time on new Trek just because it's part of the same franchise that gave us TNG and DS9, which I loved.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 30, 2020, 05:05:09 PM
I remember the first season of Picard as a pretty uneven, mixed bag. They did the "quiet drama" episodes reasonably well (e.g. the pilot episode or the Riker/Troi one), but as soon as they aimed for action-adventure stuff they quickly collapsed to current Discovery levels of stupidity. Maybe that shows that TNG - or a TNG spin-off for that matter - was never supposed to be an action show.

It's a shame what this once proud franchise has come to since it had been revived with the launch of Discovery a couple of years ago. First and foremost, CBS probably should have looked for more capable writers and showrunners. The Mandalorian, The Expanse, The Orville... they're all waaaayyyy better than this trainwreck. By now even the formerly much-maligned "bastards childs" of Trek, Voyager and Enterprise, look like friggin William Shakespeare.


Title: Re: Star Trek Discovery Season 3 started
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on January 01, 2021, 05:29:59 AM
Review episode 12:

That last episode has been a slight improvement over the long, tedious stretch of the six weeks that came before. That's not saying much although it seems Discovery is a bit better when it not tries to be "meaningful" (it tends to become boring and painfully self-indulgent then) and instead focuses on a mindless action plot like it now did with this "Die Hard in Space"-like episode. In a way this makes Discovery the polar opposite of Picard, also see my mini-review of that show in the post above. Maybe that's because Picard has an actor of the caliber of Patrick Stewart who can turn even the sh**ttiest script into Charles Dickens.


Title: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Tender Branson on February 18, 2021, 01:50:09 AM
Quote
Star Trek: Picard season 2 has commenced filming, according to new showrunner Terry Matalas. The show's first season took place twenty years after Star Trek: Nemesis, the final film to feature the cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation, with Picard quietly mourning the death of Data after a crisis caused him to resign from Starfleet. A young woman with a direct connection to Data brings Picard out of his self-imposed exile to hop around the galaxy once again.

()

The show's second season has been delayed multiple times due to the pandemic. Unlike the other current Star Trek shows, which shoot in Toronto, Star Trek: Picard is produced and shot in Los Angeles, which has been ravaged by the virus over the last few months. Series star Jeri Ryan recently hinted that production would finally get underway soon, buoyed by the news that Patrick Stewart has been vaccinated.

https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-season-2-filming-confirmed


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: 7,052,770 on February 18, 2021, 09:04:12 AM
Please don't put the "fate of the galaxy" at stake again. I don't know why recent Star Trek has to focus so large.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Tender Branson on February 18, 2021, 09:11:46 AM
Please don't put the "fate of the galaxy" at stake again. I don't know why recent Star Trek has to focus so large.

Yeah, they could settle for something completely different this time.

But the „fate of the galaxy“ thing happened often before as well, with the Borg trying to assimilate everything and Picard being responsible for the destruction of the galaxy in the All good things ... double episode ending of TNG.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: RI on February 18, 2021, 11:54:06 AM
why


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on February 18, 2021, 07:10:44 PM
Well, at least we'll get some Red Letter Media videos where Mike and Rich rip the show apart again.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on February 18, 2021, 11:43:47 PM
I heard rumbling that the Robert Picardo was gonna make an appearance (appearances?) for season 2. That'd be fun.

I need to give season 1 a watch again. It's been a few months, but I remember finding it really dull & unexplanably 'off'


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on February 18, 2021, 11:52:34 PM
I still haven't watched season 1 because I was still in the process of finishing TNG when it came out and I'm now working my way through the TNG-based movies (I've watched the first 3 and honestly enjoyed all of them... I feel like Generations and Insurrection get far too much hate), but I'm really excited for this. I love the TNG characters so much, and the idea of meeting back with them so many years later is fascinating.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Lumine on February 19, 2021, 12:05:45 AM
I really hope they can get the pacing right this time, Season 1 lacked coherence and balance and could have certainly been better.

(Really hoping to see Q returning at some point)


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Tender Branson on February 19, 2021, 01:25:43 AM
I really hope they can get the pacing right this time, Season 1 lacked coherence and balance and could have certainly been better.

(Really hoping to see Q returning at some point)

It wasn’t incoherent.

It was something totally new after almost 20 years of nothing on TNG.

Everything made sense after the last (10th) episode was over, even the situation with Picard himself - which was not all too different with what happened to Spock in a movie once ...

Obviously, technology has changed and filming styles have, but it’s still more balanced and coherent than the „Discovery“ crap.

In at least half of the show you get the sense that it has something to do with TNG and Star Trek, while Discovery was just a perversion and rape of the Star Trek genre.

And yes, bringing back Q (maybe female ?) or Guinan would be cool.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Tender Branson on February 19, 2021, 01:29:12 AM
I still haven't watched season 1 because I was still in the process of finishing TNG when it came out and I'm now working my way through the TNG-based movies (I've watched the first 3 and honestly enjoyed all of them... I feel like Generations and Insurrection get far too much hate), but I'm really excited for this. I love the TNG characters so much, and the idea of meeting back with them so many years later is fascinating.

Insurrection was one of the best movies ever.

Hippie people against Trumpist degenerates, who then lost and needed to be re-integrated into society.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on February 19, 2021, 01:44:46 AM
I still haven't watched season 1 because I was still in the process of finishing TNG when it came out and I'm now working my way through the TNG-based movies (I've watched the first 3 and honestly enjoyed all of them... I feel like Generations and Insurrection get far too much hate), but I'm really excited for this. I love the TNG characters so much, and the idea of meeting back with them so many years later is fascinating.

Insurrection was one of the best movies ever.

Hippie people against Trumpist degenerates, who then lost and needed to be re-integrated into society.

I have qualms with the quasi-anprim subtext, but it's just that, subtext. There are people who read way too much into it and claim like the whole movie is anti-technology when it's clearly not. The most it can be read as saying is just "sometimes it's nice to take a break from that stuff and live in the moment" which is a fine message imo. Plus there's the timeless moral of being willing to call out your own government when it's betraying its value. That one is one I can easily get behind.

The best movie is definitely First Contact though.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on February 19, 2021, 04:38:30 AM
I really hope they can get the pacing right this time, Season 1 lacked coherence and balance and could have certainly been better.

(Really hoping to see Q returning at some point)

It wasn’t incoherent.

It was something totally new after almost 20 years of nothing on TNG.

Everything made sense after the last (10th) episode was over, even the situation with Picard himself - which was not all too different with what happened to Spock in a movie once ...

Obviously, technology has changed and filming styles have, but it’s still more balanced and coherent than the „Discovery“ crap.

In at least half of the show you get the sense that it has something to do with TNG and Star Trek, while Discovery was just a perversion and rape of the Star Trek genre.

And yes, bringing back Q (maybe female ?) or Guinan would be cool.

Discovery > Picard


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Calthrina950 on February 19, 2021, 05:34:36 AM
I don't have CBS All Access (and I'm not interested in getting it), and therefore, I haven't seen Star Trek: Picard directly. However, I did watch Mr. Plinkett's review of the show's first season on YouTube, which was hilarious (as all of his reviews are) and revealing. It seems like they're repeating many of the same mistakes which were made with the TNG movies, Star Trek: Enterprise, the Abramsverse movies, and Star Trek: Discovery. However, I've also read that it has received high critical praise from other quarters. We'll see how it goes moving forward.

One thing is for certain though. The Star Trek franchise, three decades after the death of its creator, is continuing to rapidly expand, as there are three series currently airing now (Discovery, Picard, and Lower Decks), and at least three other series (Prodigy, Strange New Worlds, and Section 31) in the planning stages. This parallels the major expansion which Star Trek's rival franchise, Star Wars, has undertaken over the past decade since Disney acquired it in 2012.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: vitoNova on February 19, 2021, 08:01:58 AM
Voyager is the best ST of all time and Captain Janeway is one fine mother F.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on February 20, 2021, 02:11:56 AM

Oh, you mean the guy who started the insane hate mob against the Star Wars prequels with his bad-faith, disinformation-laden, grotesque excuse of a "review" of The Phantom Menace, which led to two perfectly fine actors getting their careers and lives ruined, George Lucas selling off his creation to Disney (with all the mediocrities it has churned out since), and an entire generation of fanatical morons who are still, to this day, unable to give these movies anything resembling a fair shake?

Yeah, you'll forgive me if I don't care what this piece of sh*t has to say.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Calthrina950 on February 21, 2021, 10:42:25 AM

Oh, you mean the guy who started the insane hate mob against the Star Wars prequels with his bad-faith, disinformation-laden, grotesque excuse of a "review" of The Phantom Menace, which led to two perfectly fine actors getting their careers and lives ruined, George Lucas selling off his creation to Disney (with all the mediocrities it has churned out since), and an entire generation of fanatical morons who are still, to this day, unable to give these movies anything resembling a fair shake?

Yeah, you'll forgive me if I don't care what this piece of sh*t has to say.

Well, I'm not someone who absolutely despises the Prequel Trilogy; in fact, there are certain aspects of it which I enjoy. But I'm not an apologist for it either, and I like Plinkett's reviews just for the humor and entertainment value. And which two actors are you referring to?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 21, 2021, 12:26:15 PM
Unless they manage to straighten out some of the problems of Season 1, I don't hold much hope for this show anymore.

Much of the "Kurtzman-era" Trek sucks in fact and it can't hold water to contemporary space opera competition like The Mandalorian, The Expanse, or (despite its flaws) The Orville. The new season of The Orville will in fact premiere in international markets next week and I'm certainly looking forward to it more than I do with regards to either Discovery or Picard at this point.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Tender Branson on February 21, 2021, 12:29:46 PM
Unless they manage to straighten out some of the problems of Season 1, I don't hold much hope for this show anymore.

Much of the "Kurtzman-era" Trek sucks in fact and it can't hold water to contemporary space opera competition like The Mandalorian, The Expanse, or (despite its flaws) The Orville. The new season of The Orville will in fact premiere in international markets next week and I'm certainly looking forward to it more than I do with regards to either Discovery or Picard at this point.

You are too sceptical about Picard.

It was well done and makes sense from start to end.

Anyway, Orville should be interesting. I didn't even knew it would premiere soon.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Tender Branson on February 21, 2021, 12:53:17 PM
Unless they manage to straighten out some of the problems of Season 1, I don't hold much hope for this show anymore.

Much of the "Kurtzman-era" Trek sucks in fact and it can't hold water to contemporary space opera competition like The Mandalorian, The Expanse, or (despite its flaws) The Orville. The new season of The Orville will in fact premiere in international markets next week and I'm certainly looking forward to it more than I do with regards to either Discovery or Picard at this point.

You are too sceptical about Picard.

It was well done and makes sense from start to end.

Anyway, Orville should be interesting. I didn't even knew it would premiere soon.

Orville 3.0 will not premiere next week.

Definitely not until the end of the year.

The thing with next week is just something Disney-related, where they offer Seasons 1+2.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 21, 2021, 01:00:31 PM
Unless they manage to straighten out some of the problems of Season 1, I don't hold much hope for this show anymore.

Much of the "Kurtzman-era" Trek sucks in fact and it can't hold water to contemporary space opera competition like The Mandalorian, The Expanse, or (despite its flaws) The Orville. The new season of The Orville will in fact premiere in international markets next week and I'm certainly looking forward to it more than I do with regards to either Discovery or Picard at this point.

You are too sceptical about Picard.

It was well done and makes sense from start to end.

Anyway, Orville should be interesting. I didn't even knew it would premiere soon.

Orville 3.0 will not premiere next week.

Definitely not until the end of the year.

The thing with next week is just something Disney-related, where they offer Seasons 1+2.

Ah, my mistake, I must have misremembered it.




I either like a show or I think it is way too flawed. In the case of Picard it's the latter.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on February 21, 2021, 11:07:31 PM

Oh, you mean the guy who started the insane hate mob against the Star Wars prequels with his bad-faith, disinformation-laden, grotesque excuse of a "review" of The Phantom Menace, which led to two perfectly fine actors getting their careers and lives ruined, George Lucas selling off his creation to Disney (with all the mediocrities it has churned out since), and an entire generation of fanatical morons who are still, to this day, unable to give these movies anything resembling a fair shake?

Yeah, you'll forgive me if I don't care what this piece of sh*t has to say.

Well, I'm not someone who absolutely despises the Prequel Trilogy; in fact, there are certain aspects of it which I enjoy. But I'm not an apologist for it either, and I like Plinkett's reviews just for the humor and entertainment value. And which two actors are you referring to?

Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best. Look them up if you're so inclined - they went through hell.

I'm not accusing you of anything, to be clear. My beef is just with Plinkett (and really with his whole ilk of reviewers). But anyway if you didn't like it, that's totally fair. To each their own.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: politicallefty on February 22, 2021, 01:47:37 AM
I really enjoyed Picard overall. I only got a few episodes into Discovery before I lost interest and I say that as someone who's seen every episode of Star Trek prior (except TAS). I may eventually take the time to work through it. Discovery made too many changes that were really bad. One of the worst superficial changes was having Klingons without hair. One of my biggest objections to Picard though?:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.




Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 22, 2021, 03:15:00 PM
I really enjoyed Picard overall. I only got a few episodes into Discovery before I lost interest and I say that as someone who's seen every episode of Star Trek prior (except TAS). I may eventually take the time to work through it. Discovery made too many changes that were really bad.

See TAS. See TAS now. In many ways it was a fourth season of TOS with better special effects. It's a shame that the force field belt on TAS never made it to any other Star Trek series. It was a clever addition that took advantage of what they could do in animation and they made good use of it and explained it sufficiently to make it believable and not overpowered.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Calthrina950 on February 22, 2021, 03:24:02 PM

Oh, you mean the guy who started the insane hate mob against the Star Wars prequels with his bad-faith, disinformation-laden, grotesque excuse of a "review" of The Phantom Menace, which led to two perfectly fine actors getting their careers and lives ruined, George Lucas selling off his creation to Disney (with all the mediocrities it has churned out since), and an entire generation of fanatical morons who are still, to this day, unable to give these movies anything resembling a fair shake?

Yeah, you'll forgive me if I don't care what this piece of sh*t has to say.

Well, I'm not someone who absolutely despises the Prequel Trilogy; in fact, there are certain aspects of it which I enjoy. But I'm not an apologist for it either, and I like Plinkett's reviews just for the humor and entertainment value. And which two actors are you referring to?

Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best. Look them up if you're so inclined - they went through hell.

I'm not accusing you of anything, to be clear. My beef is just with Plinkett (and really with his whole ilk of reviewers). But anyway if you didn't like it, that's totally fair. To each their own.

I'm aware of what happened to Jake Lloyd, though not to Ahmed Best. But Lloyd's troubles predated Plinkett's review, which came out a decade after the movie was released.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on February 22, 2021, 07:45:11 PM

Oh, you mean the guy who started the insane hate mob against the Star Wars prequels with his bad-faith, disinformation-laden, grotesque excuse of a "review" of The Phantom Menace, which led to two perfectly fine actors getting their careers and lives ruined, George Lucas selling off his creation to Disney (with all the mediocrities it has churned out since), and an entire generation of fanatical morons who are still, to this day, unable to give these movies anything resembling a fair shake?

Yeah, you'll forgive me if I don't care what this piece of sh*t has to say.

Well, I'm not someone who absolutely despises the Prequel Trilogy; in fact, there are certain aspects of it which I enjoy. But I'm not an apologist for it either, and I like Plinkett's reviews just for the humor and entertainment value. And which two actors are you referring to?

Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best. Look them up if you're so inclined - they went through hell.

I'm not accusing you of anything, to be clear. My beef is just with Plinkett (and really with his whole ilk of reviewers). But anyway if you didn't like it, that's totally fair. To each their own.

I'm aware of what happened to Jake Lloyd, though not to Ahmed Best. But Lloyd's troubles predated Plinkett's review, which came out a decade after the movie was released.

As much as I would want to blame George Lucas instead of Lloyd for his acting, he was just as bad in 'Jingle All the Way,' from years prior, too.

I will blame Lucas for Jar Jar Binks though. It's not Ahmed Best's fault that he to read bad, jive-esque dialogue as one of the most irritating and insulting characters in cinema history. He was just doing his job as an actor. That's all on Lucas' writing and direction. Let's not forget about the Neimoidians and Watto too when it comes to obnoxious stereotypes.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Calthrina950 on February 22, 2021, 08:36:24 PM

Oh, you mean the guy who started the insane hate mob against the Star Wars prequels with his bad-faith, disinformation-laden, grotesque excuse of a "review" of The Phantom Menace, which led to two perfectly fine actors getting their careers and lives ruined, George Lucas selling off his creation to Disney (with all the mediocrities it has churned out since), and an entire generation of fanatical morons who are still, to this day, unable to give these movies anything resembling a fair shake?

Yeah, you'll forgive me if I don't care what this piece of sh*t has to say.

Well, I'm not someone who absolutely despises the Prequel Trilogy; in fact, there are certain aspects of it which I enjoy. But I'm not an apologist for it either, and I like Plinkett's reviews just for the humor and entertainment value. And which two actors are you referring to?

Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best. Look them up if you're so inclined - they went through hell.

I'm not accusing you of anything, to be clear. My beef is just with Plinkett (and really with his whole ilk of reviewers). But anyway if you didn't like it, that's totally fair. To each their own.

I'm aware of what happened to Jake Lloyd, though not to Ahmed Best. But Lloyd's troubles predated Plinkett's review, which came out a decade after the movie was released.

As much as I would want to blame George Lucas instead of Lloyd for his acting, he was just as bad in 'Jingle All the Way,' from years prior, too.

I will blame Lucas for Jar Jar Binks though. It's not Ahmed Best's fault that he to read bad, jive-esque dialogue as one of the most irritating and insulting characters in cinema history. He was just doing his job as an actor. That's all on Lucas' writing and direction. Let's not forget about the Neimoidians and Watto too when it comes to obnoxious stereotypes.

Agreed. As Plinkett points out, the Neimoidians were obviously a caricature of Asians-specifically, the Japanese-while Watto was the stereotypical Middle Eastern peddler or market dealer. But then again, the prequels are still superior to the Disney-helmed sequels, which have been absolutely terrible. At least they had some sense of direction to them, and were more faithful to the Star Wars Universe. The only real advantage the sequels has over the prequels was that the special effects and settings were better and more realistic, although I think that's because of the advancements in technology which took place in the decade between Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 22, 2021, 09:09:10 PM
Voyager is the best ST of all time and Captain Janeway is one fine mother F.

Reported for being a Janeway fanboy.

I will grant that of all the ST captains she's been the most antiheroic, which in some ways made her well suited for the 1990s.  The basic problem ST:V'ger had was despite giving the crew a well-defined goal, get back home, it never embraced it or had even the outline of a plan of how it would happen. It also had the misfortune of starting before American television was generally willing to accept episodic television with continuing story lines. However, the dreadful writing of the show led to an overreliance on time travel as a deus ex machina to get them out of scrapes and/or destroy the ship without consequence.

Kate Mulgrew did good with the character she played, but Janeway was very one-dimensional and stereotypical and easily the least interesting of those who've sat in captain's chair in Star Trek (with the possible exception of Discovery which I haven't watched as even if had gotten rave reviews, I still wouldn't have bothered paying for CBS:All Access.).  Commander Shelby in two episodes was far more compelling than Captain Janeway in seven seasons.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: DaleCooper on February 22, 2021, 11:36:18 PM
As embarrassing as it is to admit, I do enjoy Voyager, but I can't really defend its problems.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 23, 2021, 12:37:28 AM
As embarrassing as it is to admit, I do enjoy Voyager, but I can't really defend its problems.

V'ger did have some good moments, but how the writers failed to make the most of such an excellent premise still baffles me.

What they needed to do before the show left drydock have had an idea of how many seasons they hoped the show would go, and planned a major theme/arc for each season, and how to end the show early if needed. That isn't to say they shouldn't have felt free to alter the plan if situations changed or they came up with better ideas, but other than a vague idea of having a season that would be a "Year of Hell" (that thankfully later got retconned into a single episode) it doesn't appear they had any long term plans.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: DaleCooper on February 23, 2021, 12:42:44 AM
As embarrassing as it is to admit, I do enjoy Voyager, but I can't really defend its problems.

V'ger did have some good moments, but how the writers failed to make the most of such an excellent premise still baffles me.

What they needed to do before the show left drydock have had an idea of how many seasons they hoped the show would go, and planned a major theme/arc for each season, and how to end the show early if needed. That isn't to say they shouldn't have felt free to alter the plan if situations changed or they came up with better ideas, but other than a vague idea of having a season that would be a "Year of Hell" (that thankfully later got retconned into a single episode) it doesn't appear they had any long term plans.

V'ger is how my dad and I refer to Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I agree with your assessment. It doesn't help that the whole reason they're stranded is because of their own foolish misunderstanding of the Prime Directive, then after that they're basically just doing random things each episode, occasionally getting a little closer to home. It's very lighthearted given how hopeless the situation is.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Progressive Pessimist on February 23, 2021, 09:08:19 PM

Oh, you mean the guy who started the insane hate mob against the Star Wars prequels with his bad-faith, disinformation-laden, grotesque excuse of a "review" of The Phantom Menace, which led to two perfectly fine actors getting their careers and lives ruined, George Lucas selling off his creation to Disney (with all the mediocrities it has churned out since), and an entire generation of fanatical morons who are still, to this day, unable to give these movies anything resembling a fair shake?

Yeah, you'll forgive me if I don't care what this piece of sh*t has to say.

Well, I'm not someone who absolutely despises the Prequel Trilogy; in fact, there are certain aspects of it which I enjoy. But I'm not an apologist for it either, and I like Plinkett's reviews just for the humor and entertainment value. And which two actors are you referring to?

Jake Lloyd and Ahmed Best. Look them up if you're so inclined - they went through hell.

I'm not accusing you of anything, to be clear. My beef is just with Plinkett (and really with his whole ilk of reviewers). But anyway if you didn't like it, that's totally fair. To each their own.

I'm aware of what happened to Jake Lloyd, though not to Ahmed Best. But Lloyd's troubles predated Plinkett's review, which came out a decade after the movie was released.

As much as I would want to blame George Lucas instead of Lloyd for his acting, he was just as bad in 'Jingle All the Way,' from years prior, too.

I will blame Lucas for Jar Jar Binks though. It's not Ahmed Best's fault that he to read bad, jive-esque dialogue as one of the most irritating and insulting characters in cinema history. He was just doing his job as an actor. That's all on Lucas' writing and direction. Let's not forget about the Neimoidians and Watto too when it comes to obnoxious stereotypes.

Agreed. As Plinkett points out, the Neimoidians were obviously a caricature of Asians-specifically, the Japanese-while Watto was the stereotypical Middle Eastern peddler or market dealer. But then again, the prequels are still superior to the Disney-helmed sequels, which have been absolutely terrible. At least they had some sense of direction to them, and were more faithful to the Star Wars Universe. The only real advantage the sequels has over the prequels was that the special effects and settings were better and more realistic, although I think that's because of the advancements in technology which took place in the decade between Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens.

I still think episodes I and II are worse than all three of the sequel trilogy. 'Revenge of the Sith' is better than them though. I do appreciate though that the prequels were at least more original than the sequels in setting up its own conflict but they still relied a lot on callbacks and nostalgia in other ways. Also they are technically much worse than the sequel trilogy which have better acting, direction, and special effects (including practical ones). And as flawed as they are, were never really boring for me like I and II were.

Still, regardless of where one stands on this discussion there is no denying that the average quality of all the 'Star Wars' films has dropped significantly.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: ProudModerate2 on February 23, 2021, 09:18:05 PM
I have not seen any episodes of Season 1.
Is it worth watching?


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: vitoNova on February 24, 2021, 08:32:33 AM
Voyager is the best ST of all time and Captain Janeway is one fine mother F.

Reported for being a Janeway fanboy.





Granted, my knowledge of Star Trek in general isn't too sophisticated.

My sole criteria in judging the entire series is this: 

if I was a hypothetical member of StarFleet, which crew would I like to be a member of?

Voyager wins every time. 


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 24, 2021, 09:09:07 AM
Voyager is the best ST of all time and Captain Janeway is one fine mother F.

Reported for being a Janeway fanboy.





Granted, my knowledge of Star Trek in general isn't too sophisticated.

My sole criteria in judging the entire series is this: 

if I was a hypothetical member of StarFleet, which crew would I like to be a member of?

Voyager wins every time. 

I'll grant that the show made the best use of its crew of any of the Star Trek series I've seen. However, they had to do that in part because Janeway was such a limited one-note character.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Tender Branson on February 24, 2021, 02:36:55 PM
I have not seen any episodes of Season 1.
Is it worth watching?

Yes.

Many elements of TNG are still recognizable, but with a modern aspect.

I first thought it might be bullsh*t similar to „Discovery“, but the „Amazon“/Los Angeles production might have helped in creating something a bit more common sense than this tech-infested rape that is „Discovery“.

Some scenes like with Icheb were horrible and should have been left out though and some production mistakes have been made such as those blinding lights during several camera shots.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Dereich on February 24, 2021, 03:05:19 PM
Voyager is the best ST of all time and Captain Janeway is one fine mother F.

Reported for being a Janeway fanboy.

I will grant that of all the ST captains she's been the most antiheroic, which in some ways made her well suited for the 1990s.  The basic problem ST:V'ger had was despite giving the crew a well-defined goal, get back home, it never embraced it or had even the outline of a plan of how it would happen. It also had the misfortune of starting before American television was generally willing to accept episodic television with continuing story lines. However, the dreadful writing of the show led to an overreliance on time travel as a deus ex machina to get them out of scrapes and/or destroy the ship without consequence.

Kate Mulgrew did good with the character she played, but Janeway was very one-dimensional and stereotypical and easily the least interesting of those who've sat in captain's chair in Star Trek (with the possible exception of Discovery which I haven't watched as even if had gotten rave reviews, I still wouldn't have bothered paying for CBS:All Access.).  Commander Shelby in two episodes was far more compelling than Captain Janeway in seven seasons.

You say that, but just as Voyager was getting going DS9 was dramatically and permanently changing its status quo with the Dominion War. If DS9 could do a dramatic overarching plot while still maintaining an episodic formula, there's no good reason Voyager couldn't have tried harder to do the same thing.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 24, 2021, 08:37:02 PM
Voyager is the best ST of all time and Captain Janeway is one fine mother F.

Reported for being a Janeway fanboy.

I will grant that of all the ST captains she's been the most antiheroic, which in some ways made her well suited for the 1990s.  The basic problem ST:V'ger had was despite giving the crew a well-defined goal, get back home, it never embraced it or had even the outline of a plan of how it would happen. It also had the misfortune of starting before American television was generally willing to accept episodic television with continuing story lines. However, the dreadful writing of the show led to an overreliance on time travel as a deus ex machina to get them out of scrapes and/or destroy the ship without consequence.

Kate Mulgrew did good with the character she played, but Janeway was very one-dimensional and stereotypical and easily the least interesting of those who've sat in captain's chair in Star Trek (with the possible exception of Discovery which I haven't watched as even if had gotten rave reviews, I still wouldn't have bothered paying for CBS:All Access.).  Commander Shelby in two episodes was far more compelling than Captain Janeway in seven seasons.

You say that, but just as Voyager was getting going DS9 was dramatically and permanently changing its status quo with the Dominion War. If DS9 could do a dramatic overarching plot while still maintaining an episodic formula, there's no good reason Voyager couldn't have tried harder to do the same thing.

While the Dominion was introduced the same year (season 3 of DS9) as V'ger was launched, they weren't the primary focus until season 6. That said, you're right that V'ger could have tried harder, but they didn't.  Instead they kept writing purely episodic storylines and puerile time travel stories that let them keep destroying the ship without any lasting consequences. Tho to be fair, a couple of times they created duplicate ships and crews to be destroyed instead of using time travel to let them destroy the ship and have it be restored.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: 7,052,770 on February 24, 2021, 10:17:09 PM
The worst part of Voyager was how the crews integrated so seamlessly and so quickly. The Starfleet vs. Maquis conflict should have been a major plot thread for years, even if just bubbling under everything. There's no way the two crews would have been fine with working together like that with basically no ill will.


Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on February 25, 2021, 08:41:10 AM
The worst part of Voyager was how the crews integrated so seamlessly and so quickly. The Starfleet vs. Maquis conflict should have been a major plot thread for years, even if just bubbling under everything. There's no way the two crews would have been fine with working together like that with basically no ill will.

They touched upon it some, and the show in my opinion would've been worse had they done more. The proximate cause of the Starfleet v. Maquis tension was no longer proximate, since it was back in the Alpha quadrant, and many of the Maquis were former Starfleet. About the only additional use that would've made sense would have been if the tension resurfaced whenever they had one of those episodes that teased an early return home, but that would've turned the episode into a two-parter, maybe making it a good fit for the end of Season 1/start of Season 2. It would have at least been better than the cheesy episode, "Learning Curve", that ended the first season.



Title: Re: Star Trek: Picard (Season 2) has started filming
Post by: Tender Branson on February 27, 2021, 04:01:13 AM
Jonathan Frakes’ cryptic tweet (https://trekmovie.com/2021/02/26/did-jonathan-frakes-just-drop-a-big-star-trek-picard-season-2-clue/)

Quote
What has us wondering if something is afoot is a tweet sent out Friday morning by Star Trek: The Next Generation star Jonathan Frakes.

He posted a photo—without a caption—of himself smiling with his TNG co-stars LeVar Burton and John de Lancie.

It’s a fantastic photo and in just a few hours, the tweet garnered hundreds of comments and thousands of likes.


:)


Title: non-typical Star Trek poll
Post by: dead0man on March 02, 2021, 08:16:49 PM
The wife and I are watching through all the ST TV shows, in release order.  The changes between TOS and TNG are huge.  Which one of the above do you think changed the most?


Title: Re: non-typical Star Trek poll
Post by: Alben Barkley on March 02, 2021, 09:01:17 PM
I think the first season or two of TNG (when Gene Roddenberry was still involved), the storytelling and plots are still pretty reminiscent of TOS. Including some episodes that are outright remakes of TOS episodes. But after that, it starts diverting dramatically and becomes easily the biggest difference between the shows. Acting is different, a little less hammy perhaps, but outside of Stewart, not exactly top notch acting still. Sets are clearly different but it’s still recognizable as the Enterprise.


Title: Star Trek Picard - Season 2 Trailer out
Post by: Tender Branson on May 01, 2021, 09:09:30 AM
After filming has resumed about a month ago in CA, here's the first trailer:




Title: Re: Star Trek Picard - Season 2 Trailer out
Post by: Utah Neolib on May 04, 2021, 08:55:13 PM
After filming has resumed about a month ago in CA, here's the first trailer:



I hope it’s better than the action lacking first season


Title: Re: Star Trek Picard - Season 2 Trailer out
Post by: Tender Branson on May 04, 2021, 11:13:47 PM
After filming has resumed about a month ago in CA, here's the first trailer:



I hope it’s better than the action lacking first season

Hopefully, it has a good storyline.

A lot of action isn’t needed.

See the crappy „Discovery“.


Title: Re: Star Trek Picard - Season 2 Trailer out
Post by: John Dule on May 04, 2021, 11:23:16 PM
After filming has resumed about a month ago in CA, here's the first trailer:



I hope it’s better than the action lacking first season

Yeah, I watch Star Trek for the action too.


Title: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: 7,052,770 on December 14, 2021, 10:59:31 PM
Yes, I'm late to the party on this. Star Trek Continues is a fan-made Star Trek series on YouTube that ran from 2013 through 2017.

I'd heard about it a bit over the years, but never bothered to watch it, assuming (reasonably, I think) that it couldn't possibly be all that good, since it's entirely non-profit, everyone on it works for free, and it is like a "season 4" of TOS, but with unknown actors playing the roles of the characters we love. It's not officially sanctioned by Paramount, but they allowed it because no one was making any money off of it.

But, I decided to watch it all over the last few weeks, and ... wow, I was waaaay wrong. This show is fantastic! It's not just filmed "fan fiction," it's that the 11 episodes actually have the feel of TOS episodes. I had previously watched another fan film series on YouTube (Phase II/New Voyages), and that one was watchable but never felt like "lost episodes" of TOS. Continues really does feel that way.

If I were going to rank the top 10 episodes of Star Trek released since Enterprise went off the air, at least 8 of them are probably from Continues. No exaggeration. If you love TOS, you'll love Continues. If you don't love Discovery or Picard because they don't remind you of classic Trek, Continues may be for you.

If you haven't seen it, here's the official YouTube link:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhvh2eq-XLgqNxH6npvQxGxLCUHy90IpZ



note to mods - can we merge every Star Trek thread into a single huge Star Trek megathread?


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 15, 2021, 11:12:33 AM
Don't think I have seen it, but it is probably better than Dissuckery (the only decent official Trek show currently in production is Lower Decks IMO).

New Voyages/Phase II - which I have seen - had a couple of good episodes, one of them even being nominated for a Hugo Award back then.


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: dead0man on December 16, 2021, 01:41:28 AM
Me and the wife are most of the way through watching everything Start Trek, so we'll add this to the list.  We just finished Lower Decks and it is, by FAR, the best Star Trek ever.  Not close.  We haven't seen Picard, the other new cartoon one that is aimed at children or Enterprise. 

We had just finished Voyager before Lower Decks.  What an ordeal that was.  I was done with anything Star Trek at that point, but we knew Lower Decks was going to be short (2 seasons of 13 half hour episodes) and had a cool cast and was supposed to be funny.  We're supposed to do Star Wars after all of Trek is done, but the plan, as of now, is to watch Picard and then move onto Wars without watching season 3 of Discovery or the one for kids, but maybe we'll add Continues to the list.



**if anyone wants to give an opinion on what Star Wars properties to watch and in what order, I'm in a listening mode.  Right now, were leaning towards just the movies and watching them in "in universe" chronological order...ie, Start with the prequels, Solo, Rogue1, the original 3, the last 3.


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: politicallefty on December 16, 2021, 05:03:52 AM
I haven't heard of it. I really enjoyed Picard, but I haven't watched more than the first few episodes of Discovery. I'm debating whether or not I should push through it and see if it gets better. All of Trek does have its rough edges throughout its first seasons.

Me and the wife are most of the way through watching everything Start Trek, so we'll add this to the list.  We just finished Lower Decks and it is, by FAR, the best Star Trek ever.  Not close.  We haven't seen Picard, the other new cartoon one that is aimed at children or Enterprise. 

We had just finished Voyager before Lower Decks.  What an ordeal that was.  I was done with anything Star Trek at that point, but we knew Lower Decks was going to be short (2 seasons of 13 half hour episodes) and had a cool cast and was supposed to be funny.  We're supposed to do Star Wars after all of Trek is done, but the plan, as of now, is to watch Picard and then move onto Wars without watching season 3 of Discovery or the one for kids, but maybe we'll add Continues to the list.

I haven't seen Lower Decks, so I have no opinion there. I've seen TAS for that matter either. I've never really understood the hate for Voyager. I will agree with most that it did not live up to its potential, but if you view it more like TNG, I think it's easier to appreciate. To be honest, I really liked Captain Janeway too.

From everything I read, I had such low expectations going into Enterprise that I enjoyed it far more than I expected. What really annoyed me though is that the series was getting so good in the fourth season and that network pulled the plug, so no season 5. They fixed what wasn't working before, but it was unfortunately too late. Enterprise is pre-Federation, so it's quite different, but you start to see how the Federation comes to be in the fourth season. I also liked a lot of the Earth-Vulcan drama throughout the show, something that reaches a major inflection point in the fourth season. I'd also say that the pilot episode is one of the stronger pilots of any of the shows.

**if anyone wants to give an opinion on what Star Wars properties to watch and in what order, I'm in a listening mode.  Right now, were leaning towards just the movies and watching them in "in universe" chronological order...ie, Start with the prequels, Solo, Rogue1, the original 3, the last 3.

I've thought a lot about that before, but I agree with the "in-universe" chronological order. That's what I do when I want to watch all of the movies. There are also quite a few unconventional approaches you can read about. It is a little jarring though when you go from the technological advancements made in movies over the past 20 years or so and go back to 1977. On the other hand, it's a good portrayal in seeing the vibrant Republic turn into the authoritarian Empire.

Now, you also have to consider the shows too, not just the movies. But I wouldn't advise squeezing them between the movies unless you're really committed. I strongly recommend watching The Clone Wars (both the movie, which is pretty meh, and the series that ended not long ago, which is amazing). It's computer animated, but I definitely wouldn't call it a kiddie show or anything like that. I think one of the best aspects is that it really gives depth to the prequel era as you see everything slowly fall into place for the Empire to replace the Republic. After that, I'd recommend The Bad Batch, which is basically a spinoff of The Clone Wars, but so far during the very early days of the Empire. I'd also recommend Rebels as well.

Can I assume you've seen The Mandalorian?


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: dead0man on December 16, 2021, 06:28:32 AM
the wife says she won't watch the SW TV shows.  I can maybe convince her to watch an episode to see if we'll like it.  We watched season 1 of the Mandalorian.  It wasn't as good to us as it seemed to be for everyone else.

Voyager is worse than DS9 which is worse than TNG and everything is better than TOS.  Janeway wasn't the issue (though she is clearly not in the same league as Picard or Sisko), Chakotay is good too, 7of9 was excellent eye candy.  Tuvok was my favorite crew member, but they rarely gave that guy any screen time.  Kim sucked, Torres sucked, I like Robert Picardo, the Doctor was an interesting character that they used WAY too much.  It seemed like 85% of eps were focused on the Doctor or 7of9 (or both).  I understand the desire to focus on their best features, but maybe toss Tuvok a bone from time to time.


and I think we may have watched too much scifi.  But we did get a bunch of inside jokes between us out of it.  Every time a ship approaches a cloud in space, one of us will tell them to shoot it with something (which they almost always end up doing).  Anytime someone on the show says something like "heavy damage on decks 9 through 14" one of us will shout "oh no, the nursery!" (in a "won't someone think of the children" kind of way) which really only applied to TNG, but we still say it.  Lower Decks even did a version of the joke in the show. 


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 16, 2021, 07:00:55 AM
I haven't heard of it. I really enjoyed Picard, but I haven't watched more than the first few episodes of Discovery. I'm debating whether or not I should push through it and see if it gets better. All of Trek does have its rough edges throughout its first seasons.

Trust me... Discovery gets worse... much worse. The highpoint of that show was Season 2, hands down, when it actually came closest to resembling Star Trek. It more or less manages to hold together for the first couple of episodes of Season 3, but about one third into the season it completely collapses and never recovers from that point on. The scripts just become unbearable, seemingly on the level of badly written, overly melodramatic fan fiction and the randomly plotted, incoherent story arcs often tend to go nowhere. At times it doesn't even appear to be science fiction anymore... more like fantasy with huge chunks of soap opera infused into it.

The drop in quality is also evidenced by the IMDb ratings Discovery's individual episodes have received since the end of Season 2:

2x12: 7.5
2x13: 7.2
2x14: 8.1

3x1: 7.2
3x2: 7.1
3x3: 7.2
3x4: 6.2
3x5: 7.2
3x6: 6.4
3x7: 6.3
3x8: 5.6
3x9: 6.3
3x10: 6.3
3x11: 6.0
3x12: 6.7
3x13: 6.3

4x1: 5.8
4x2: 5.2
4x3: 5.3
4x4: 4.8

Yes, Discovery's latest episode is also its lowest-rated yet.


Lower Decks on the hand, went in the opposite direction... it improves over time, becoming sort of a spiritual successor to TNG with lots of irony and self-deprecating humor. Kind of like an animated version of The Orville, but set in the official Trek universe. The guest appearances by well-known Trek alumni like Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Robert Duncan McNeill, John de Lancie, Jeffrey Combs, or Alice Krige also help.


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: politicallefty on December 16, 2021, 08:54:43 AM
the wife says she won't watch the SW TV shows.  I can maybe convince her to watch an episode to see if we'll like it.  We watched season 1 of the Mandalorian.  It wasn't as good to us as it seemed to be for everyone else.

The Mandalorian doesn't have a lot of episodes per season, so just watch that through. Season 2 has some great moments and you might have a jaw drop in the final episode. As for The Clone Wars, if you guys are going to sample it, I don't suggest the first episode. Most of the series is multi-episode stories. I don't want to give you anything from Season 7. That runs up right into and actually alongside ROTS. If you want a good sample, try either (or both) of S04E15 ("Deception") and S06E01 ("The Unknown"). Both are multi-episode stories and you guys might find them compelling enough to continue. If you do, it's worth going back and watching the entire series. If you don't like The Clone Wars, I highly doubt you'd like Rebels.

How do you and your wife feel about the prequel movies overall?

Quote
Voyager is worse than DS9 which is worse than TNG and everything is better than TOS.  Janeway wasn't the issue (though she is clearly not in the same league as Picard or Sisko), Chakotay is good too, 7of9 was excellent eye candy.  Tuvok was my favorite crew member, but they rarely gave that guy any screen time.  Kim sucked, Torres sucked, I like Robert Picardo, the Doctor was an interesting character that they used WAY too much.  It seemed like 85% of eps were focused on the Doctor or 7of9 (or both).  I understand the desire to focus on their best features, but maybe toss Tuvok a bone from time to time.

I don't know, I just felt Voyager was underrated. I entirely agree that Tuvok was underused and underdeveloped as a character. A lot of writers really don't know how to use Vulcans. Seven was a product of the network. She was supposed to be exactly what you mentioned. However, it turned out Jeri Ryan is actually a damn good actress. Voyager was subject to a lot of meddling by the network. I always felt Janeway quite compelling. I never really cared much for Chakotay, to be honest. One somewhat underrated episode that's always stood out to me was Counterpoint, not the least for this intro scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIoeyfaSYL8) and especially the ending (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUsufztLfWA). It was fantastic acting and a great use of classical music.

As for Sisko, I really don't think he hit his stride until Season 4 or so. He was great during the Dominion War though.

Trust me... Discovery gets worse... much worse. The highpoint of that show was Season 2, hands down, when it actually came closest to resembling Star Trek. It more or less manages to hold together for the first couple of episodes of Season 3, but about one third into the season it completely collapses and never recovers from that point on. The scripts just become unbearable, seemingly on the level of badly written, overly melodramatic fan fiction and the randomly plotted, incoherent story arcs often tend to be go nowhere. At times it doesn't even appear to be science fiction anymore... more like fantasy with huge chunks of soap opera infused into it.

[...]

Yes, Discovery's latest episode is also its lowest-rated yet.


Lower Decks on the hand, went in the opposite direction... it improves over time, becoming sort of a spiritual successor to TNG with lots of irony and self-deprecating humor. Kind of like an animated version of The Orville, but set in the official Trek universe. The guest appearances by well-known Trek alumni like Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, Robert Duncan McNeill, John de Lancie, Jeffrey Combs, or Alice Krige also help.

I admit that my biggest problem when I started to watch Discovery is that it didn't feel like Star Trek at all. They didn't even give the Klingons hair, which I still don't understand. And then there's all that about the "spore drive". For a show that takes place during an era we know something about, they changed way too much. If you lose me on the little stuff, it's harder to pay attention to the big stuff.

I really enjoyed The Orville. It seemed to me like Lower Decks was something more like a kiddie show, but I admit I've only seen ads so far. All of the names you mentioned are quite interesting, but  I especially enjoyed Weyoun in DS9 and Shran in Enterprise. Jeffrey Combs is an underrated talent in Star Trek.


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 16, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
I really enjoyed The Orville. It seemed to me like Lower Decks was something more like a kiddie show, but I admit I've only seen ads so far. All of the names you mentioned are quite interesting, but  I especially enjoyed Weyoun in DS9 and Shran in Enterprise. Jeffrey Combs is an underrated talent in Star Trek.

Oh, Lower Decks is definitely an adult show... they have sex and people can die. :) Prodigy, which I haven't so far, is the one intended for kids.

The first half of the first season of Lower Decks is still a bit lame. The humor comes across as  more forced and the plots aren't that engaging. Things start to get better towards the end of Season 1 when it essentially becomes "animated TNG with jokes".


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: 7,052,770 on December 20, 2021, 11:37:22 PM
I'm just going to treat this as a Star Trek megathread going forward. Mods, please merge in all previous Star Trek threads if possible.

When I watched Picard back when it was new, I liked it fine, but it was kinda tedious to watch it over the course of 10 weeks. I just binged through it over a couple weeks, and I thought it was a lot better that way, since it's so heavily serialized.

None of the episodes really stand out (other than Nepenthe), and I don't think any of them would make by top 100 list for Star Trek overall, but I think it holds up better that way. Anyone who likes TNG should watch it.


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: 7,052,770 on December 20, 2021, 11:39:28 PM
On the other hand, I'm not sure if Discovery is salvageable, and I think the best plan is probably to cancel it, officially state that it takes place in an alternate universe, and just not talk about it anymore.

It's not that I hated every minute of it, but I just don't think it really "fits" into the Star Trek universe. I have such high hopes for Strange New Worlds, but I'm also really afraid it will suffer from the same issues.


Title: Re: Opinion of "Star Trek Continues"
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on December 21, 2021, 03:58:14 PM
     Never heard of it, but I love classic Star Trek so I will be sure to check it out with the recommendation.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on March 31, 2022, 07:18:59 PM
I've asked the mods to merge all other Star Trek threads into this one so we can consolidate onto a single thread rather than spread a little here and there.

In the meantime, I'll consider this to be the Star Trek megathread and only post about it here.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on March 31, 2022, 07:21:02 PM
I am getting pretty excited about Strange New Worlds.




I was kinda skeptical about making a younger Uhura a character, but I'm warming up to the idea.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on March 31, 2022, 07:22:25 PM
Similarly, making a younger Chapel a regular character is risky (and kinda funny because Number One, also originally played by Majel Barrett, is also on the show). I hope they don't depart too much from the original character.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on March 31, 2022, 07:23:21 PM



M'Benga! He was in a couple episodes of TOS as a second doctor, so I guess he gets replaced by McCoy later on but fills in a bit.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on March 31, 2022, 07:24:16 PM



An Aenar character played by an actor who is blind in real life. I really like him from the trailer at least.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on March 31, 2022, 07:25:26 PM



I'm most skeptical about this one. Is she an Augment? Some kind of relative of Khan? Is this really necessary?


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on April 02, 2022, 02:19:51 PM



I love Anson Mount as Pike, but I am not sure about this plotline about how Pike "knows his fate" and can't handle it. I don't know, I just didn't like that episode of Discovery (although the scene was fantastic).

But maybe it will help fill in why Spock was so devoted to Pike in "The Menagerie," going to far as to commit mutiny and grand theft starship.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on May 04, 2022, 11:17:42 PM
Just like in season 1, after a strong start, season 2 of Picard has been a disappointment. Still better than Discovery though.

Tomorrow is the Strange New Worlds premiere, and I'm really nervous about it.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: vitoNova on May 05, 2022, 06:12:36 AM
Voyager is vastly superior over all other Star Treks, and Captain Janeway is hot.

I judge Star Trek series soley based by which crew I'd rather serve with.  And Voyager takes the cake.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on May 05, 2022, 06:15:21 AM
Just like in season 1, after a strong start, season 2 of Picard has been a disappointment. Still better than Discovery though.

Tomorrow is the Strange New Worlds premiere, and I'm really nervous about it.

I agree with your assessment of Picard, and given the track record of both this show and Discovery I don't really have high hopes for Strange New Worlds either. I'm gonna watch the first episode or two to see whether my estimate was accurate, but it seems likely that Lower Decks will continue to be the only decent Trek show currently in production IMO.

In general I think that the era of "good" Trek ended sometime around the time of Voyager and Enterprise. Back then I used to be rather critical of Voyager, but by now it looks like friggin William Shakespeare.

In principle it's great that they managed to bring back Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner, Jeri Ryan, John de Lancie, and Whoopi Goldberg for Picard, but given the horrendous writing they have to work with it just seems like such a waste of talent.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on May 05, 2022, 04:51:24 PM
Well, I have correct myself a bit... surprisingly enough, the series premiere of Strange New Worlds turned out to be watchable. It helped that, unlike Disocvery, they actually tried to make it look and feel like TOS. It also helped that it actually had something of a plot instead of being just a dumb shoot 'em up action scenario. And just like on Discovery Anson Mount brings with himself the gravitas of a Starfleet captain.

I'm still wary though, since both Discovery and Picard originally started out at a somewhat decent level too before they eventually fell apart. Strange New Worlds still needs to prove that it can keep up the quality for an entire season.


Notable factoid: Like it or not, but when visiting an alien planet plagued by civil unrest we finally found out that political polarization and unrest in 21st century America eventually escalated into the Second Civil War which then escalated in the World War III whose aftermath we had witnessed in Star Trek: First Contact. Something the Supreme Court should probably consider before overturning Roe v. Wade. :P  The message in the episode came across as a bit ham-fisted and on the nose, although it's notable that it didn't amount to "muh, Trumpism bad", but "let's be brothers again".


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on May 05, 2022, 09:53:43 PM
Agreed, episode 1 was good!

On the other hand, the season of Picard that just ended was so-so. It had its moments, but if I were ranking the now 34 complete seasons of live action Star Trek, it's probably no higher than 29th, ahead of season 1 of Picard, seasons 1, 3, and 4 of Discovery, and season 1 of TNG.

I should probably do a deeper analysis than just ranking off the cuff like that.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on May 08, 2022, 02:51:22 AM
Just like in season 1, after a strong start, season 2 of Picard has been a disappointment. Still better than Discovery though.

Tomorrow is the Strange New Worlds premiere, and I'm really nervous about it.

I'm actually two episodes behind on Picard, but I feel let down by how much they turned the entire season into one story. It's weird because this is one of the few shows where I actually let the entire intro play through. I love the intro and that quintessential musical Star Trek note at the end just strikes me. It's music that gives me hope for a darkening future.

I haven't seen the new show yet, so I'll avoid anything on that until I've seen it.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on May 12, 2022, 05:27:26 PM
Well, Episode 2 of SNW was the second solid episode in a row and I'm starting to have hopes that after two duds (Discovery, Picard) they finally managed to get it right here. It certainly helps that they stripped it down to the basics. If you want to do a Star Trek show then do a Star Trek show. It's about exploration, adventure, optimism - as such, SNW is the spritual antithesis to Discovery's bleak and depressing vision (sure, Deep Space Nine was also often darker, but not that dark imo). Optimism is just what we need in the era of COVID and Ukraine.

It's essentially a modernized version of The Original Series for the 21st century. Or to cite another comparison I read recently somewhere, The Orville with (slightly) less jokes. Just don't jinx it now.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on May 26, 2022, 02:31:58 PM
Okay, four episodes in and I think I'm sold. It has become clearer now that the quality of Strange New Worlds is consistent and that after the previous failures of Discovery and Picard they have finally managed to get their sh**t together.

In a plot that was reminiscent of The Original Series' Balance of Terror as well as The Wrath of Khan, the Enterprise is facing off against the Gorn - who have received a significant badass uprade and are now like the 23rd century equivalent of the Borg. Instead of just being a dumb action plot Episode 4 is backed up by writing like this (spoilers):





Spock: Decks are collapsing. If we do not seal them off now, loss of pressure could spread to the entire ship.
Pike: Seal the bulkheads.
...
La'an: Structural collapse on Deck 22. We've lost one crew person.
Spock: You made the logical choice.
Pike: Why doesn't it feel like that?
Spock: For the same reason you made it. Because you value life.




Uhura: So, an Aenar in Starfleet. How's that even work? Thought you guys were all pacifists.
Horak: I actually wanted to be a botanist. Love flora.... I will not fight for Starfleet. But I will defend its ideals. Pacifism is not passivity. It is the active protection of all living things in the natural universe.




Btw, I just love the show's 1970s-inspired retrofuturistic design.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on June 07, 2022, 08:47:28 AM
[SPOILERS]

I watched all five episodes of SNW within two days and I'm absolutely hooked. I have enjoyed Picard, but this is what I was looking for in a new Star Trek series. I'm kind of just blown away by how good it is. This really feels like TOS, but with 2020s technology giving it a far more update feel. That said, it does still have that 1960s retrofuture feel, which I've always loved. Even the general look and hairstyles feel like they're updated versions of the 1960s. They really hit a homerun with this show. The characters are very likable and enjoyable. It also returns to a more episodic format, something sorely lacking in sci-fi in recent years. Plots have been overly serialized in recent years to their detriment. It's refreshing to escape that paradigm.

At first, I thought Hemmer was Andorian, until they mentioned he was blind. The Aenar haven't been seen since ENT. I always love continuity like that. It feels to me like Pike is intended to be a sort of fusion of Kirk and Picard (which is how I think they originally wanted Janeway to be).


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on June 08, 2022, 11:20:05 AM
I was more or less under the impression that Star Trek had gotten progressively worse ever since The Next Generation had ended. But Strange New Worlds is possibly the best Trek show since maybe Deep Space Nine now? The very puristic, yet modernized approach is very successful. This is the kind of Star Trek that would have been produced by Gene Roddenberry had he been born fifty years later.

I wondered how that came to be considering the previous duds. I actually don't know that much about that guy but a difference to Discovery and Picard is that SNW has a different co-showrunner/head writer in the person of Henry Alonso Myers, so maybe he's the one who exerts some positive influence here... similar to the role Mike McMahan played with Lower Decks which I now believe to be the second best contemporary incarnation of Star Trek. In any case, Alex Kurtzman beeing neutered always seems to be good thing here. I regard Kurtzman as Trek's version of Chris Chibnall if you catch my drift.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on June 14, 2022, 06:02:37 PM
I was more or less under the impression that Star Trek had gotten progressively worse ever since The Next Generation had ended. But Strange New Worlds is possibly the best Trek show since maybe Deep Space Nine now? The very puristic, yet modernized approach is very successful. This is the kind of Star Trek that would have been produced by Gene Roddenberry had he been born fifty years later.

I wondered how that came to be considering the previous duds. I actually don't know that much about that guy but a difference to Discovery and Picard is that SNW has a different co-showrunner/head writer in the person of Henry Alonso Myers, so maybe he's the one who exerts some positive influence here... similar to the role Mike McMahan played with Lower Decks which I now believe to be the second best contemporary incarnation of Star Trek. In any case, Alex Kurtzman beeing neutered always seems to be good thing here. I regard Kurtzman as Trek's version of Chris Chibnall if you catch my drift.

I wouldn't say Star Trek has gotten worse since TNG, though I could be biased on account of really liking 90s Trek. When it comes to Picard, it's easier for me to see past the flaws on account of the cast, particularly the always-great Sir Patrick Stewart. I absolutely agree on your latter point though. SNW really does feel like something Gene Roddenberry would have produced today. However, I think it's better than that in one big way and that's the updated and modernized 60s retrofuture feel of the sets and costumes/hair/makeup. I think the overall look and feel would be something very different without TOS to look back on. All of that together really does create a certain charm that works so well.

I think the main difference between SNW and the other two shows is the extent of serialization, which I suppose would be the result of the direction of the showrunner. Season 2 of Picard really felt like just a long movie. (Season 1 didn't feel quite as serialized overall.) I still haven't taken the time to watch Discovery apart from the first few episodes, but my understanding is that that show is also hyper-serialized as well. The quasi-serialization of DS9 worked great because that was in the days of 26-episode seasons. There was plenty of time to run B-plots that really improved the episodes and helped develop more characters. Sometimes the B-plot is more enjoyable than the A-plot. On the other hand, the biggest problem with Voyager was too far in the other direction, its massive use of the reset button. So far, SNW is very episodic in its plots, but it has a very good flow with developing the main characters. If they have a major recurring villain, I think we have a good idea as to which race that will be.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on June 15, 2022, 04:10:27 AM
I was more or less under the impression that Star Trek had gotten progressively worse ever since The Next Generation had ended. But Strange New Worlds is possibly the best Trek show since maybe Deep Space Nine now? The very puristic, yet modernized approach is very successful. This is the kind of Star Trek that would have been produced by Gene Roddenberry had he been born fifty years later.

I wondered how that came to be considering the previous duds. I actually don't know that much about that guy but a difference to Discovery and Picard is that SNW has a different co-showrunner/head writer in the person of Henry Alonso Myers, so maybe he's the one who exerts some positive influence here... similar to the role Mike McMahan played with Lower Decks which I now believe to be the second best contemporary incarnation of Star Trek. In any case, Alex Kurtzman beeing neutered always seems to be good thing here. I regard Kurtzman as Trek's version of Chris Chibnall if you catch my drift.

I wouldn't say Star Trek has gotten worse since TNG, though I could be biased on account of really liking 90s Trek. When it comes to Picard, it's easier for me to see past the flaws on account of the cast, particularly the always-great Sir Patrick Stewart. I absolutely agree on your latter point though. SNW really does feel like something Gene Roddenberry would have produced today. However, I think it's better than that in one big way and that's the updated and modernized 60s retrofuture feel of the sets and costumes/hair/makeup. I think the overall look and feel would be something very different without TOS to look back on. All of that together really does create a certain charm that works so well.

I think the main difference between SNW and the other two shows is the extent of serialization, which I suppose would be the result of the direction of the showrunner. Season 2 of Picard really felt like just a long movie. (Season 1 didn't feel quite as serialized overall.) I still haven't taken the time to watch Discovery apart from the first few episodes, but my understanding is that that show is also hyper-serialized as well. The quasi-serialization of DS9 worked great because that was in the days of 26-episode seasons. There was plenty of time to run B-plots that really improved the episodes and helped develop more characters. Sometimes the B-plot is more enjoyable than the A-plot. On the other hand, the biggest problem with Voyager was too far in the other direction, its massive use of the reset button. So far, SNW is very episodic in its plots, but it has a very good flow with developing the main characters. If they have a major recurring villain, I think we have a good idea as to which race that will be.

In addition, SNW portrays a rather optimistic vision of the future again while Discovery and Picard tend to be very bleak and pessimistic (DIS in particular).

DS9 was dark too compared to other Trek shows of the time but I didn't get the feeling that it was that dark all the time... more like "realistic" as opposed to the optimistic TNG and Voyager. DS9's "Dominion war arc" in the beginning of Season 6 was pretty bleak but that was only for like six episodes and then came Jadzia's and Worf's wedding episode.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on June 19, 2022, 04:49:25 AM
In addition, SNW portrays a rather optimistic vision of the future again while Discovery and Picard tend to be very bleak and pessimistic (DIS in particular).

DS9 was dark too compared to other Trek shows of the time but I didn't get the feeling that it was that dark all the time... more like "realistic" as opposed to the optimistic TNG and Voyager. DS9's "Dominion war arc" in the beginning of Season 6 was pretty bleak but that was only for like six episodes and then came Jadzia's and Worf's wedding episode.

It's no revelation to say that the utopia that Star Trek envisioned and built upon came out of massive darkness. TOS and TNG mentioned the Eugenics War and WWIII. SNW actually went one step further and mentioned a Second Civil War in the United States.

With Picard, it makes perfect sense how the Federation became isolationist and xenophobic. It's the Federation less than a quarter of a century after multiple Borg incursions, a war with an enemy that became an ally that became an enemy once again, and the Dominion War (and we don't even know what happened in that intervening period). It's also not just attacks on the Federation, but attacks deep into the core worlds of the Federation. Earth was attacked multiple times and Betazed was outright occupied by the Dominion. The Federation went through so much during the 2360s-2370s that it's quite extraordinary it remained as well as it did.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on June 30, 2022, 02:15:35 PM
Bet they had a lot of fun with that last episode. In other words, let's do an Alien hommage.

The re-imagined, scarier version of the Gorn had been dealth with before this season. But what has previously only been hinted at is now fully confirmed: They're essentially like the Xenomorphs from the Aliens universe, maybe with a bit of Predator fused into them (the Gorn's "heat vision"), leading to what must have been one of the goriest Star Trek episodes to date. And this is how it goes...


La'an = Ripley
Pike = Captain Dallas
Spock = Ash/Bishop
Sam Kirk = Private Hudson

There's even a young, traumatized, female survior with dirt in her face who is most definitely not Newt.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: FairBol on July 04, 2022, 01:53:05 PM
I did not know we had a Star Trek thread...nice!


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: FairBol on July 04, 2022, 01:53:54 PM

:: raises hand ::

Live long and prosper.  ;)


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 08, 2022, 12:05:00 PM
Interesting season finale... it was a hommage to, a revisitation, a reimagination of the classic 60s episode Balance of Terror, set in an alternate timeline. At the core was the question: What if Pike manages to escape his destiny?

They also introduced the character of James T. Kirk now, although the actor and the portrayal of the character didn't seem that Kirk-ish to me when compared to Shatner or Pine (or Spock/Ethan Peck for that matter). He was depicted as a young, but competent captain with a penchant for unorthodox, aggressive tactics, which made look Pike quite Picard-ish in comparison. For an iteration of Kirk he seemed maybe a bit too stern and serious though.

With the exeption of the clunker episodes 7 (the one with the space pirates) and 8 (the one with the fairy tale) this was a pretty strong season overall, perhaps even the strongest initial season of any Trek show since TOS... since most Trek series had a tendency to start off rather weakly, including TNG.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Dereich on July 08, 2022, 02:46:24 PM
In addition, SNW portrays a rather optimistic vision of the future again while Discovery and Picard tend to be very bleak and pessimistic (DIS in particular).

DS9 was dark too compared to other Trek shows of the time but I didn't get the feeling that it was that dark all the time... more like "realistic" as opposed to the optimistic TNG and Voyager. DS9's "Dominion war arc" in the beginning of Season 6 was pretty bleak but that was only for like six episodes and then came Jadzia's and Worf's wedding episode.

It's no revelation to say that the utopia that Star Trek envisioned and built upon came out of massive darkness. TOS and TNG mentioned the Eugenics War and WWIII. SNW actually went one step further and mentioned a Second Civil War in the United States.

With Picard, it makes perfect sense how the Federation became isolationist and xenophobic. It's the Federation less than a quarter of a century after multiple Borg incursions, a war with an enemy that became an ally that became an enemy once again, and the Dominion War (and we don't even know what happened in that intervening period). It's also not just attacks on the Federation, but attacks deep into the core worlds of the Federation. Earth was attacked multiple times and Betazed was outright occupied by the Dominion. The Federation went through so much during the 2360s-2370s that it's quite extraordinary it remained as well as it did.

Picard is different in that it presents those issues as endemic to society in a way that older series (even DS9) did not. I'd compare its society to the excellent DS9 two-parter Homefront/Paradise Lost. It certainly is dark; fear of the changelings leads to a coup to depose the civilian government and enact martial law. But in the end, the coup supporters aren't willing to go all the way and virtually all involved end up agreeing that its not worth sacrificing the "paradise" of the Federation out of fear. Or the Bell Riots in the Past Tense two-parter; there's plenty of emphasis there on how humans have mistreated each other in the "past" and the struggle to grow past that. DS9 shows its humans struggle with societal flaws that earlier series made it seem like had already been conquered. But in DS9 the message is still that we as a species can and have improve past our worst instincts, even if we still have to deal with them. Picard to me doesn't try to show a future better than the present. Its just the present with fancier tech.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on July 09, 2022, 07:11:58 PM
Well, season 1 of Strange New Worlds was fantastic, especially the finale.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on July 10, 2022, 12:21:08 AM
Interesting season finale... it was a hommage to, a revisitation, a reimagination of the classic 60s episode Balance of Terror, set in an alternate timeline. At the core was the question: What if Pike manages to escape his destiny?

They also introduced the character of James T. Kirk now, although the actor and the portrayal of the character didn't seem that Kirk-ish to me when compared to Shatner or Pine (or Spock/Ethan Peck for that matter). He was depicted as a young, but competent captain with a penchant for unorthodox, aggressive tactics, which made look Pike quite Picard-ish in comparison. For an iteration of Kirk he seemed maybe a bit too stern and serious though.

With the exeption of the clunker episodes 7 (the one with the space pirates) and 8 (the one with the fairy tale) this was a pretty strong season overall, perhaps even the strongest initial season of any Trek show since TOS... since most Trek series had a tendency to start off rather weakly, including TNG.

Yeah, I loved the reimagination of Balance of Terror. They even started it with a wedding! The whole episode is definitely one of the boldest in a very long time and it totally paid off. My only real complaint is that I wasn't really sold on this version of Captain Kirk. He kept reminding me of Jim Carrey.

I completely agree with you on the weakest episodes. I definitely didn't care for the space pirate episode. My personal top three would probably be Ghosts of Illyria, A Quality of Mercy, and All Those Who Wander. I'm gonna be really upset if Number One doesn't return for Season 2 though. She's definitely one of the best characters on the show. (I sort of wonder what would've happened if the original Star Trek pilot took off and Majel Barrett played the second-in-command.)

Picard is different in that it presents those issues as endemic to society in a way that older series (even DS9) did not. I'd compare its society to the excellent DS9 two-parter Homefront/Paradise Lost. It certainly is dark; fear of the changelings leads to a coup to depose the civilian government and enact martial law. But in the end, the coup supporters aren't willing to go all the way and virtually all involved end up agreeing that its not worth sacrificing the "paradise" of the Federation out of fear. Or the Bell Riots in the Past Tense two-parter; there's plenty of emphasis there on how humans have mistreated each other in the "past" and the struggle to grow past that. DS9 shows its humans struggle with societal flaws that earlier series made it seem like had already been conquered. But in DS9 the message is still that we as a species can and have improve past our worst instincts, even if we still have to deal with them. Picard to me doesn't try to show a future better than the present. Its just the present with fancier tech.

That's one of the problems though. Apart from a few episodes of DS9, you don't really understand what Earth is in the 24th century. Even then, it's mostly focused on a few characters and a couple major plots. I think the main issue with Picard is that it's hyper-serialized. You can't point to certain episodes as individual stories. While I did enjoy both seasons, I haven't gone back and re-watched any of it. I was re-watching episodes of SNW before the season even ended.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on July 10, 2022, 12:49:31 AM
Here's how I rank the 10 episodes, at least as of right now, looking back:

1. A Quality of Mercy
2. Spock Amok
3. Memento Mori
4. Strange New Worlds
5. Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach
6. All Those Who Wander
7. Ghosts of Illyria
8. The Serene Squall
9. Children of the Comet
10. The Elysian Kingdom


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on July 10, 2022, 01:48:49 AM
Here's how I rank the 10 episodes, at least as of right now, looking back:

1. A Quality of Mercy
2. Spock Amok
3. Memento Mori
4. Strange New Worlds
5. Life Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach
6. All Those Who Wander
7. Ghosts of Illyria
8. The Serene Squall
9. Children of the Comet
10. The Elysian Kingdom

Interesting. I'd probably rank them like this:

1. Ghosts of Illyria (3)
2. A Quality of Mercy (10)
3. All Those Who Wander (9)
4. Strange New Worlds (1)
5. Spock Amok (5)
6. Memento Mori (4)
7. Children of the Comet (2)
8. Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach (6)
9. The Elysian Kingdom (8)
10. The Serene Squall (7)

I'll do a re-watch eventually, but I'll probably skip episodes 7 and 8. Otherwise, I really enjoyed everything else.

One thing I noticed when I was listing the episodes is that they sound so much like TOS episode titles. On the other hand, it's really excelled at bringing in some of the best of 90s Trek in terms of an ensemble cast and the overall plot designs.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on September 29, 2022, 07:05:44 PM
Pretty fancy that Lower Decks essentially did a crossover with Deep Space Nine with that last episode... including guest voice appearances by Nana Visitor and Armin Shimerman!

Shaxs and Kira fought in the Bajoran resistance together? Well, of course they did.

And nice to see the old station again.

LD continues to be prove that it is probably the second-best of the contemporary Trek outings after Strange New Worlds. It's even better than Picard IMO, since LD tends to be more line with the "vision" and feeling of Star Trek, even if it does so in some self-deprecating manner.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on February 08, 2023, 10:18:39 PM
Picard season 3 starts airing next week. After season 1 was disappointing and season 2 was just bad, I can't say I'm optimistic, but apparently the early reviews are pretty good. (Did we hear that last year too?)

If the entire TNG cast was willing to return, they should have just done that from the beginning.



ETA...I said this last year but I'm not sure why I thought that...
On the other hand, the season of Picard that just ended was so-so. It had its moments, but if I were ranking the now 34 complete seasons of live action Star Trek, it's probably no higher than 29th, ahead of season 1 of Picard, seasons 1, 3, and 4 of Discovery, and season 1 of TNG.
And for that matter I don't think it was better than season 1 of Discovery either, and ... maybe not season 1 of TNG?


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 17, 2023, 07:39:20 AM
SPOILERS FOR THE FIRST EPISODE AHEAD.





Saw the season premiere. It's good that we got Picard, Riker, Seven, and Beverly back. I especially liked Picard's and Riker's "odd couple" dynamic.

I still had some issues with the writing, although it had - at times - been worse in the past. I guess what annoyed me most was the depiction of the U.S.S. Titan's new captain. Sure, Starfleet had it's share of obstructive bureaucrats and insane admirals before, but this one probably takes the cake. Capt. Shaw is a tyrannical asshole who instills no loyalty whatsoever, constantly bullies his subordinates (including coercing his first officer to go by a different more "human"-sounding name), and deliberately subjects a retired Starfleet admiral and a senior captain to humiliating treatment because Shaw, well, seems to enjoy that (forcing Picard and Riker to share bunk beds of lower ranks). This sort of behaviour almost came across as cartoonish and one wonders why no one ever filed - IMO completely justified - complaints with Starfleet Command, leading to his dismissal as captain. Edward Jellico was despite all his hardass-ness at least acting professional, Shaw on the other hand seems to suffer from an antisocial personality disorder.

But like I said, keeping the spotlight on Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes and the chemistry between them elevated the episode for me.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on February 17, 2023, 12:31:25 PM
()


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on February 25, 2023, 09:29:55 AM
I've enjoyed the first two episodes, but this level of serialization makes the overall story run so slow. It may be too much to wish for the old 26-episode seasons (where they actually managed to truly flesh out the main characters and even some of the of the recurring), but even something in the high teens to 20 would be quite nice.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on February 25, 2023, 01:12:27 PM
I've enjoyed the first two episodes, but this level of serialization makes the overall story run so slow. It may be too much to wish for the old 26-episode seasons (where they actually managed to truly flesh out the main characters and even some of the of the recurring), but even something in the high teens to 20 would be quite nice.

Yeah, the creators of modern Star Trek generally don't know and don't care what the fans actually want, Strange New Worlds being a begrudging exception from them.

Picard season 1 was better on rewatch when I binged it. I haven't rewatched season 2 and I think it would still be pretty bad, but probably better on a binge. If they insist on super serialization like this (way more than DS9 or Enterprise season 3 ever did), they should at least release them all at once


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on March 01, 2023, 08:54:42 AM
Yeah, the creators of modern Star Trek generally don't know and don't care what the fans actually want, Strange New Worlds being a begrudging exception from them.

Picard season 1 was better on rewatch when I binged it. I haven't rewatched season 2 and I think it would still be pretty bad, but probably better on a binge. If they insist on super serialization like this (way more than DS9 or Enterprise season 3 ever did), they should at least release them all at once

My understanding with Picard is that the first two seasons weren't highly regarded, so they basically decided to just bring back the main cast from TNG. They probably should've done that from the start. One thing that stuck out to me in this new season is that the chemistry between Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes is as strong as ever. It honestly kind of put a smile on my face. Sometimes you've got to stick with what works. I think serialization in this is more tolerated because they have popular characters like Jean-Luc Picard, Data, and Seven (not to mention Guinan and Q). With S3, it's clear they're going for fan approval by bringing everyone else back.

Serialization in ENT S3 didn't seem to be very popular. I thought it was a pretty good season though, but watching S4 a few years ago is what really pissed me off that is was cancelled prematurely. ENT S4 was some of the all-time best Trek, really building a good story for the years just before the founding of the Federation. The mini-arcs were so good at fleshing out the history of that time. Shran (played by the ever-great Jeffrey Combs) was apparently supposed to become part of the permanent cast for S5. We can't have nice things, can we?  :'(

DS9-style serialization worked great. The characters had been fully fleshed out and we knew who they were. Even with that though and the Dominion War raging, they still managed to put out 26-episode seasons. Not every episode had to be a grand spectacle. If the characters are well-written and fleshed out, all you need is a good story. I'm worried that SNW will fail to live up to its potential due to the short seasons. Even just going up to 15 would do a lot of service for the show, I think. All parts of the main cast need some time to shine.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 02, 2023, 06:52:04 PM
I've seen the first three episodes now.

I would say that after the abysmal Season 2 this marks a return to form (of sorts) for this show. Depending how good it holds together in the end - and that's hardly a given for Picard - it could even turn out to be this show's best season so far.

Pretty low bar, of course. It's still not as good as Strange New Worlds, far better than Discovery (although it wouldn't exactly require rocket science to achieve that), and definitely light-years awy from TOS, TNG, DS9. It's maybe Voyager or Enterprise level of quality, meaning it's... watchable.

It certainly helps in overlooking the flaws that with the exception of Rafi they have dropped all those bland and/or annoying characters from the previous seasons and brought back (so far) Jonathan Frakes, Gates McFadden, Michael Dorn, and Marina Sirtis instead.

Even Capt. Shaw, despite my earlier skepticism, has kind of grown on me ever since he started to show concern for the well-being of his crew and turned out, on occasion, to be a reasonable authority figure. It's just that he is a overly blunt, overly sarcastic, overly eccentric Starfleet captain.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 03, 2023, 04:06:33 AM
SPOILERS:








Ah, btw, maybe it's supposed to be a sign for the advanced Federation medical technology, but am I the only one who found it a bit curious that Beverly conceived and gave birth to another son in her mid-50s ?


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on March 04, 2023, 05:19:03 PM
Pretty low bar, of course. It's still not as good as Strange New Worlds, far better than Discovery (although it wouldn't exactly require rocket science to achieve that), and definitely light-years awy from TOS, TNG, DS9. It's maybe Voyager or Enterprise level of quality, meaning it's... watchable.

It certainly helps in overlooking the flaws that with the exception of Rafi they have dropped all those bland and/or annoying characters from the previous seasons and brought back (so far) Jonathan Frakes, Gates McFadden, Michael Dorn, and Marina Sirtis instead.

I think I'm pretty much in agreement with you on that. I can nitpick a few things, but I won't. This last episode really got me excited for the next and that's always a good thing.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 09, 2023, 12:18:53 PM
That fourth episode was pretty decent as far as "space survival" stories go.

Some mysteries were resolved (Shaw's backstory, why Jack never sought out his father), while others continued to build up (who is Vadic working for and what is her connection to Jack?).

Overaching theme of the episode, and apparently the overall season as well, is "family", both biologically and metaphorically (in form of Starfleet crewmembers).


Only hair in the soup: This show is still way too dark, and I mean that literally. They need some more lights on that ship of theirs... a point that has already started to get satirized in fan circles.

()


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on March 11, 2023, 04:09:38 AM
Too bad Vadic is pronounced "-ick" in both the English and German version.

I would have preferred the Balkan-style "Va-dit(s)ch" pronounciation. Maybe it makes sense in English, but for German the Balkan-version would be better.

^_^

Also, they shouldn't have translated "The Shryke" to "Würger" ... just left it as "The Shryke" instead.

Apparently, it's the name of a bird:

()

And: Amanda Plummer makes a really convincing villain.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 11, 2023, 09:54:45 AM
Too bad Vadic is pronounced "-ick" in both the English and German version.

I would have preferred the Balkan-style "Va-dit(s)ch" pronounciation. Maybe it makes sense in English, but for German the Balkan-version would be better.

^_^

Also, they shouldn't have translated "The Shryke" to "Würger" ... just left it as "The Shryke" instead.

Apparently, it's the name of a bird:

()

And: Amanda Plummer makes a really convincing villain.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.



Ah, so you are enjoying the show in its original Klingon? :D

The German dubbing of Star Trek can be atrocious at times. I still remember when in the series finale of Enterprise they had Malcolm Reed drop a reference to the title of TNG's series finale (All Good Things...) which was then directly translated by ze Germans into All Good Things' German title (Gestern, Heute, Morgen = Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow) in the dubbed version.

Kudos to noticing that it was indeed a reference to TNG, although the usage of the line "yesterday, today, tomorrow" instead of "all good things" made no sense in the context of the respective dialogue they tried to dub, leaving the impression that Reed was just uttering random gibberish there.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 11, 2023, 12:49:21 PM
Picard's last episode, "No Win Scenario", currently has a IMDb rating of 9.2.

This would make it the best Picard episode so far, and the fifth-, sixth-, or seventh-best Star Trek episode ever. Maybe a tad overrated me thinks.

But it made me look (again ?) what the ten best or so Star Trek episodes are, according to individual IMDb ratings.

It comes down to this (all of these episodes have a IMDb rating of 9.1 or higher):


The Original Series
"The City on the Edge of Forever" (9.2)

The Next Generation
"The Measure of a Man" (9.1)
"Yesterday's Enterprise" (9.2)
"The Best of Both Worlds" (9.3)
"The Best of Both Worlds Part II" (9.2)
"The Inner Light" (9.4)

Deep Space Nine

"The Visitor" (9.1)
"Trials and Tribble-ations" (9.3)
"In the Pale Moonlight" (9.4)

Picard
"No Win Scenario" (9.2)

Strange New Worlds

"A Quality of Mercy" (9.1)


The following Trek shows have no episode that is rated 9.1 or higher, with the highest-rated respective episodes being:

The Animated Series: "Yesteryear" (8.0)
Voyager: "Blink of an Eye" (9.0)
Enterprise: "Twilight" (8.6)
Discovery: "If Memory Serves" and "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2" (8.2  :O )
Short Treks: "Calypso" (7.8 )
Lower Decks: "No Small Parts", "wej Duj", and "First First Contact" (8.7)
Prodigy: "Supernova, Part 1" (8.9)


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on March 11, 2023, 12:58:26 PM
Picard's last episode, "No Win Scenario", currently has a IMDb rating of 9.2.

This would make it the best Picard episode so far, and the fifth-, sixth-, or seventh-best Star Trek episode ever. Maybe a tad overrated me thinks.

But it made me look (again ?) what the ten best or so Star Trek episodes are, according to individual IMDb ratings.

It comes down to this (all of these episodes have a IMDb rating of 9.1 or higher):


The Original Series
"The City on the Edge of Forever" (9.2)

The Next Generation
"The Measure of a Man" (9.1)
"Yesterday's Enterprise" (9.2)
"The Best of Both Worlds" (9.3)
"The Best of Both Worlds Part II" (9.2)
"The Inner Light" (9.4)

Deep Space Nine

"The Visitor" (9.1)
"Trials and Tribble-ations" (9.3)
"In the Pale Moonlight" (9.4)

Picard
"No Win Scenario" (9.2)

Strange New Worlds

"A Quality of Mercy" (9.1)


The following Trek shows have no episode that is rated 9.1 or higher, with the highest-rated respective episodes being:

The Animated Series: "Yesteryear" (8.0)
Voyager: "Blink of an Eye" (9.0)
Enterprise: "Twilight" (8.6)
Discovery: "If Memory Serves" and "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2" (8.2  :O )
Short Treks: "Calypso" (7.8 )
Lower Decks: "No Small Parts", "wej Duj", and "First First Contact" (8.7)
Prodigy: "Supernova, Part 1" (8.9)

I believe that the season pilot of "ST: Picard", the first episode in fact, was the best episode so far.

The acting by Isa Briones and the directing made her look like an outstanding 21st-century version of Data's invented daughter Lal.

Followed by "The Impossible Box" and "Nepenthe".

The last episode was pretty good, but I would rank it 4th or 5th.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on March 11, 2023, 01:01:48 PM
The intro of each new "ST: Picard" episode is confusing to me, because it says "Previously on:"

Shouldn't it say "Previously on ST: Picard..." ?

"Previously on..." in German means "Bisher bei..."

But that's an incomplete sentence.

Or is it normal these days to just write "Previously on..." ?


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on March 11, 2023, 01:13:04 PM
I finally know again what I wanted to do after watching the 1st episode of the new season, but then forgot about it:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🦀🎂🦀🎂 on March 12, 2023, 02:13:46 PM
Picard's last episode, "No Win Scenario", currently has a IMDb rating of 9.2.

This would make it the best Picard episode so far, and the fifth-, sixth-, or seventh-best Star Trek episode ever. Maybe a tad overrated me thinks.

But it made me look (again ?) what the ten best or so Star Trek episodes are, according to individual IMDb ratings.

It comes down to this (all of these episodes have a IMDb rating of 9.1 or higher):


The Original Series
"The City on the Edge of Forever" (9.2)

The Next Generation
"The Measure of a Man" (9.1)
"Yesterday's Enterprise" (9.2)
"The Best of Both Worlds" (9.3)
"The Best of Both Worlds Part II" (9.2)
"The Inner Light" (9.4)

Deep Space Nine

"The Visitor" (9.1)
"Trials and Tribble-ations" (9.3)
"In the Pale Moonlight" (9.4)

Picard
"No Win Scenario" (9.2)

Strange New Worlds

"A Quality of Mercy" (9.1)


The following Trek shows have no episode that is rated 9.1 or higher, with the highest-rated respective episodes being:

The Animated Series: "Yesteryear" (8.0)
Voyager: "Blink of an Eye" (9.0)
Enterprise: "Twilight" (8.6)
Discovery: "If Memory Serves" and "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2" (8.2  :O )
Short Treks: "Calypso" (7.8 )
Lower Decks: "No Small Parts", "wej Duj", and "First First Contact" (8.7)
Prodigy: "Supernova, Part 1" (8.9)

I don't know if this is a hot take, but "The Inner Light" has got to be the most overrated episode of Trek. I watched it without realising it was considered a great episode and it struck me as a mixture of bland, nonsensical and overwrought. I didn't care about the global warming/environmental collapse analogy and irritated at their plan to "save their legacy" by gaslighting Picard for decades.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 17, 2023, 07:05:47 AM
Episode 5: Imposters


Spoilers ahead...


















The major spoiler in this episode is the surprise return of Ro Laren. As such the episode serves as a follow-up, or a sequel of sorts, to TNG's season 7 episode Preemptive Strike, bringing closure to the Picard-Ro relationship almost 30 years later. This was certainly this episode's strongest point, seeing both of them struggling whether they can forgive each other.

By now it has also become clear that this season's main arc is basically a cross between TNG's season 1 episode Conspiracy (switching the parasites for Changelings), and the DS9 two-parter Homefront/Paradise Lost (treating the Changeling infiltration threat as genuine instead of being a false-flag operation by a rogue Starfleet admiral).

The mystery behind Jack Crusher continues to built up. Is he perhaps a Changeling who at one point replaced the real Jack but then forget about his nature and origins?

IMO the episode also features a notable guest appearance by Kirk Acevedo as a Vulcan crime boss, proving that you can find members of this species in pretty much every field since individual Vulcans always use their own subjective version of "logic". This particular Vulcan's logic has been corrupted by having grown up alongside a Ferengi in the streets of a backwater planet, eventually turning him into a bit of a gambler who is "fascinated" by the mathematical probabilities of who would win in a Human vs. Klingon knife fight.

They managed to switch on the lights on the Titan again btw, although the show still comes across as rather badly lit a lot of the time. This article adresses the issue and explains it as a technical error on part of the production, according to showrunner Terry Matalas Star Trek: Picard wasn't supposed to be that dark: https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-technical-error-season-3-dark/


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on March 19, 2023, 04:56:28 AM

Yeah, spoilers:

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 19, 2023, 05:57:27 AM
.PS:

Europe: Did you also notice how Jack Crusher sometimes gets referred to "Jake" Crusher in the German version? Or is it just me?

Can't tell, I watch the show in English.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on March 25, 2023, 05:10:14 AM

I always watch it in English first, then German. And I do the same with "The Mandalorian".

The last epidose ("The Bounty") was pretty good, even better in German because my English is not so good.

The episode had a few new charcaters and also old friends and nostalgia. Family frictions were solved, but I'm still not sure if the German dub team made an error again or not: The episode title in English, as I've said, is "The Bounty" and they translated it to "Die Bounty". Obviously, it could refer to the ship in that episode but also to the situation at the very end of the episode and the 2 people being held hostage as "bounty" for JC.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong on March 25, 2023, 11:35:15 AM
I wish Picard had been 3 seasons of this season 3 story, instead of the first 2 seasons we got


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 25, 2023, 01:29:33 PM
I wish Picard had been 3 seasons of this season 3 story, instead of the first 2 seasons we got

Amen.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: k120 on March 27, 2023, 01:43:59 AM
I'm still not sure if the German dub team made an error again or not: The episode title in English, as I've said, is "The Bounty" and they translated it to "Die Bounty". Obviously, it could refer to the ship in that episode but also to the situation at the very end of the episode and the 2 people being held hostage as "bounty" for JC.

There could be a double meaning like you say, but if I were translating it I would take the ship name as the primary meaning and translate accordingly, which it looks like they did.

I wish Picard had been 3 seasons of this season 3 story, instead of the first 2 seasons we got

I'm glad we got the first two seasons. If it was just a TNG reunion from the start, we wouldn't have gotten the characters Ríos, Raffi, and Elnor, whom I really like. And even if they brought Seven back, she probably wouldn't be in as prominent a role as she is. Michael Chabon did a lot of good worldbuilding which has turned out to be essential to Season 3, particularly the backstories of Raffi, Seven, Riker, & Troi.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on March 27, 2023, 03:45:22 AM
I wish Picard had been 3 seasons of this season 3 story, instead of the first 2 seasons we got

I agree. But at the same time, considering how hands-on Patrick Stewart seemed to be from the start, I doubt the show would've gotten off the ground if the season 3 story was the original pitch.

Whether or not that's a net positive is up to you


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong on March 27, 2023, 09:54:48 AM
I loved season 1. And yes, Raffi and co have been great additions to the universe and Seven might not have been there to play if it was TNG 2 from the beginning. That being said, season 3 is just so good!


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 31, 2023, 08:47:19 AM
This week's episode seemed to be a bit of a letdown.

It started promising with a cameo by Tuvok, but then it devolved into the tedious and incoherent mess I was used to in Season 2. Jean-Luc Picard in particular also seemed to act a bit uncharacteristic, for example when he decided that they should worry about the moral implications of creating a potential weapon of mass destruction later. Hopefully this is only a one-off thing that they drop the ball in this manner.

Only upside: The Geordi/Data scenes dealing with Geordi's grief when he lost Data.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on March 31, 2023, 03:31:25 PM
I actually thought yesterday was a fun watch. Lots of strong performances; Amanda Plummer, Gates McFadden, Brent Spiner, LeVar Burton + Ryan/Russ. My only gripes were the lack of Riker & Shaw outside of the first minute. Not the best episode of the bunch, but better than anything I've seen from the first two seasons.

Unfortunately I expected a lot of kneejerk "Twas fun while it lasted" reactions once we got an episode that was merely a 7/10 rather than an 8 or 9. I guess that's the problem with continued momentum.


- I feel like the bulk of next week will focus heavily on Riker's (and Tuvok's?)  + the Titan crew either taking back the ship or going off to find another one (Perhaps the one ship we didn't see at the shipyard?). I'm also hoping we get to hear about what's up with Jack and finally get that ball rolling.

- Also, Janeway has been brought up in practically every episode this season. I'll be pretty disappointed if she doesn't show up in the final episode.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on April 07, 2023, 03:14:34 PM
Episode 8 was one of the best of the season again, IMO.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on April 09, 2023, 02:29:11 AM
Episode 8 was one of the best of the season again, IMO.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on April 14, 2023, 08:42:46 AM
Episode 9 sure was something. Wow.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on April 14, 2023, 12:14:51 PM
Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on April 15, 2023, 10:21:44 AM
Episode 9 was  8-X - especially the later parts.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.




Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on April 15, 2023, 10:25:23 AM
I hope they the last episode 90 minutes at least

Matalas tweeted that it's gonna be 60 minutes.

I was also hoping for 90 minutes.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on April 15, 2023, 03:33:48 PM
I hope they the last episode 90 minutes at least

Matalas tweeted that it's gonna be 60 minutes.

I was also hoping for 90 minutes.

That's a big shame. I would've loved a feature-length reunion on the D. Wouldn't stun me if it was a Paramount+ call rather than Matalas


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on April 18, 2023, 06:22:20 PM
After I watched the two almost back to back now, is it a "hot take" to say that I actually prefer Star Trek Into Darkness over Star Trek (2009)? Critics seemed to like the latter more, but I always had a bit of an issue with the first Abramsverse installment since its "joke - joke - let's blow up Vulcan and kill its six billion inhabitants, including Spock's mother - hilarious joke - joke" structure always seemed to be a bit inconsistent in style and mood to me. STID is more coherent in that manner and Cumberbatch & Peter Weller also make stronger villains compared to Eric Bana who simply sucks at playing an "evil" character.






Ah, yes, they brought back the Enterprise-D on Picard which I found - even though I still believe that on balance the show's flaws outweigh its strengths - pretty darn cool. Hilariously, it probably also featured the best-lit scene during this season so far (= D's bridge). I suppose this was intentional and meant to convey some sort of symbolism/contrast.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on April 19, 2023, 05:31:23 AM
I haven't seen Star Trek into Darkness, but I did watch the 2009 one recently and it's not as good as I remember. The lens flare, the Apple Store aesthetic, a poor villain in Eric Bana, more monotonous action scenes than I remember. I'm sure there's more, but it felt more like a regular ol' action blockbuster that happened to have Trek characters (And no disrespect to Zachary Quinto but I think Ethan Peck is a much better Spock than him). Those are just off the top of my head. Perhaps a good film for someone new, but I don't think it cracks my top 5 Trek films list.

The weird thing is that I remember disliking all of those when it came out but disregarded it cause "Trek is back baby!"


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on April 19, 2023, 06:50:00 AM
I haven't seen Star Trek into Darkness, but I did watch the 2009 one recently and it's not as good as I remember. The lens flare, the Apple Store aesthetic, a poor villain in Eric Bana, more monotonous action scenes than I remember. I'm sure there's more, but it felt more like a regular ol' action blockbuster that happened to have Trek characters (And no disrespect to Zachary Quinto but I think Ethan Peck is a much better Spock than him). Those are just off the top of my head. Perhaps a good film for someone new, but I don't think it cracks my top 5 Trek films list.

The weird thing is that I remember disliking all of those when it came out but disregarded it cause "Trek is back baby!"

STID is also designed as a action film, although a bit darker one which makes it more consistent in tone compared to the first film IMO.

Benedict Cumberbatch almost comes across as an anti-villain here because his primary motivation is to keep his men safe. Peter Weller's insane admiral is sometimes a bit over the top, but he's apparently supposed to be a Don Rumsfeld/John Bolton neocon stand-in.



Anyway, Paramount has green-lit a Section 31 movie, starring Michelle Yeoh:

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/paramount-plus-star-trek-section-31-film-michelle-yeoh-1235586743/

Naturally I'm a bit skeptical towards everything that orginates out of the train wreck that is Discovery (although Strange New Worlds turned out reasonably well), but let's see...


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on April 19, 2023, 03:33:36 PM
I know they were pushing for a Section 31 show for a long time. I'm not the biggest fan but if they were so hell-bent on doing something, I'm glad it's just a movie. They still get Michelle Yeoh, they can make it a fun 2-hours instead of a slogging 10-hours and they can focus more of their energies on the series'


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on April 21, 2023, 02:40:02 AM
So we now had what is basically our third finale to the TNG era. It was not as good as All Good Things..., but better than Star Trek Nemesis and gave ample room to cameos and farewell scenes. Probably also the only season finale of Picard that can actually be considered "good", so at least they managed to end the show on a high note. I'm not so hopeful (at all) with regards to Trashcovery.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on April 21, 2023, 03:15:14 AM
Very few scifi & even Trek shows can compare to TNG, so I'm not gonna do that with this season. But I am gonna compare it with the movies since Terry Matalas has stated multiple times that this was the cinematic sendoff that the TNG crew didn't get with Nemesis.

So on that basis, I think this season was on par with First Contact and perhaps better in some ways (Though I'm admittedly not the biggest fan of that film). If I were new to TNG, I think this would be a worthy watch after All Good Things and First Contact. I'd rate the finale a 3 out of 4 with the possibility of moving it up to a 3.5.

Random finale thoughts:
Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.



Now starts the countdown for the announcement of the inevitable spinoff. I'd be surprised if its not announced before summer. Until then, Strange New Worlds is on the horizon with Lower Decks right after. It's been a while since I've felt this optimistic for Trek.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on April 21, 2023, 04:50:12 AM
SPOILERS...










They didn't kill one of the crew (they already had done that in Nemesis), but the most obvious parallels to previous finales:

- The episode ends with a poker game of the crew, including Picard, like it did in All Good Things....

- Just like Nemesis ended with the promotion of Riker to the captain of the Titan, Picard ends with the promotion of Seven to the captain of the Enterprise-G (previously the Titan).

- A major Borg hub is destroyed and the Queen is killed (but this time finally for good, I guess), just like it happened in Voyager's Endgame.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 🇺🇦 Purple 🦄 Unicorn 🇮🇱 on April 23, 2023, 01:33:51 PM
The Season finale was beautifully made and a great end to TNG and Seven of Nine.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Alben Barkley on May 01, 2023, 07:51:50 PM
I'm not a diehard Star Trek fan by any means, but I had people telling me that if you liked anything about the old Next Generation, you'll enjoy the latest season of Picard. Now, I tried watching this show when it first started and I thought it was f--king stupid so I wrote it off. But I was convinced by my friends to give this last season a shot, and I'm glad I did. It was absolutely fan service, but of the best kind. It actually delivered what I had hoped the Star Wars sequels would: New adventures and iconic moments with the characters we all fell in love with in the first place, BEFORE handing things off to a new crew. That's how you do it.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on May 02, 2023, 07:00:16 AM
This season was pretty fun and a huge improvement over the first 2 seasons. If I were ranking all of the live action seasons 1-36, I'm sure it's in the top 30, though I doubt it cracks the top 20.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on May 03, 2023, 06:32:56 AM
I do think the finale was a bit rushed, but overall no complaints. It was definitely a great season and a lot fun seeing the original cast all back. I'm hoping for a good spin-off, because they certainly set one up pretty well. Jeri Ryan is a damn good actor and would be a great lead for a new show. (I always thought it was ironic how the execs clearly put her on Voyager because she looks great it a catsuit, but they ended up with one of the best performances of anyone on any of the shows.)

In other news, the new season of Strange New Worlds starts on June 15th. It was also recently renewed for a third season, though that might take awhile now.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: vitoNova on May 03, 2023, 08:37:15 AM
Captain Janeway is fine as hell.

I'd f*k the sh*t out of her. 


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on May 03, 2023, 11:35:23 AM
Captain Janeway is fine as hell.

I'd f*k the sh*t out of her. 

Okay, boomer.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on May 03, 2023, 04:49:45 PM
In other news, the new season of Strange New Worlds starts on June 15th. It was also recently renewed for a third season, though that might take awhile now.

I think one of the producers said they were already filming season 3. This was a few days before the official renewal announcement. Perhaps most of the scripts have already been finished or submitted?

I'm more curious what this means for that Starfleet Academy show they just announced. If the strike goes to the end of the year, I can see that one being a casualty of the strike. Perhaps it was a good thing they didn't announce that Picard spinoff already or it'd probably suffer a similar fate.

Lower Decks should be ok. It's already been renewed for a fifth season and I don't believe animated TV writers are a part of the WGA.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on May 09, 2023, 05:59:11 PM
I think one of the producers said they were already filming season 3. This was a few days before the official renewal announcement. Perhaps most of the scripts have already been finished or submitted?

I'm more curious what this means for that Starfleet Academy show they just announced. If the strike goes to the end of the year, I can see that one being a casualty of the strike. Perhaps it was a good thing they didn't announce that Picard spinoff already or it'd probably suffer a similar fate.

Lower Decks should be ok. It's already been renewed for a fifth season and I don't believe animated TV writers are a part of the WGA.

News (https://trekcentral.net/star-trek-strange-new-worlds-season-3-production-delayed/) is not good on that front.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom on May 10, 2023, 03:22:52 AM
Captain Janeway is fine as hell.

I'd f*k the sh*t out of her. 

This is a VitoNova posf


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on May 30, 2023, 06:20:19 PM
In preparation for its upcoming second season I'm currently rewatching the first season of Strange New Worlds and I'm still flabbergasted as to how superior it is compared to Discovery or (the first two seasons) of Picard.

Most importantly, it's... fun. And even if it has two or three darker episodes it overall conveys a much more optimistic tone than the aforementioned shows. Most of its characters are likeable, each with their own unique characteristics, and Anson Mount makes a charismatic lead who combines the best qualities of Kirk and Picard.

Only the episode The Elysian Kingdom is a real clunker... a tedious, confusing, seemingly pointless mess so much reminiscent of the sister show Dscovery whose only redeeming quality is perhaps its emotional ending. But for a season that hits the mark almost all the time that is forgiven.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on May 30, 2023, 06:57:58 PM
Only the episode The Elysian Kingdom is a real clunker... a tedious, confusing, seemingly pointless mess so much reminiscent of the sister show Dscovery whose only redeeming quality is perhaps its emotional ending. But for a season that hits the mark almost all the time that is forgiven.

I like that episode. I enjoy when Trek embraces its silliness. I also love the "Spoke Amok" episode for similar reasons.

Though it wasn't until very recently that I noticed that it's pretty much SNW's version of the "Masks" episode from Next Gen.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on May 31, 2023, 09:41:06 AM
https://youtube.com/watch?v=IQ51gV0t6yM

Paramount uploaded the entire first season of Strange New Worlds onto YouTube, so if you haven't seen it, check it out!


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on May 31, 2023, 06:36:35 PM
Have now rewatched Strange New Worlds's Season 1 finale... which is interesting because they're essentially deconstructing their own lead character. Captain Pike isn't doing anything what Captain Picard would have done in the same situation, while Kirk - especially from Pike's POV - is portrayed as a reckless loose cannon. Kirk not being in charge (and for long-time fans this is a foregone conclusion) is exactly what leads to a "bad future" though. Pike does have a point, although it doesn't come to fruition because while the Romulan commander does in essence agree with Pike the Romulan commander is ultimately not the one in charge of the Romulan Empire.

The many layers of the episode make your head spin. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on May 31, 2023, 11:51:22 PM
I'll probably do a rewatch before S2 starts. I don't disagree with anything said above. One of the things that's unfortunate though (and it's true of many shows, not just SNW) is that the short seasons don't give you the same character development that the 26-episode seasons from 1987-2005 gave you. There's a fair amount of poor episodes when you have that many, but some of the filler episodes do great character-building and world-building. I don't think 26 would be a good idea anymore, but I do think mid-to-high teens would be better (say 16-18). (On the other hand, one advantage of streaming is that shows like this aren't necessarily bound by the old 42-45 minute runtime.)

Only the episode The Elysian Kingdom is a real clunker... a tedious, confusing, seemingly pointless mess so much reminiscent of the sister show Dscovery whose only redeeming quality is perhaps its emotional ending. But for a season that hits the mark almost all the time that is forgiven.

I wasn't crazy about that one either, but I actually did have something lower on the list. With the season fresh in your mind, how do you rank the episodes? This is what I went with shortly after the season finale:

1. Ghosts of Illyria (3)
2. A Quality of Mercy (10)
3. All Those Who Wander (9)
4. Strange New Worlds (1)
5. Spock Amok (5)
6. Memento Mori (4)
7. Children of the Comet (2)
8. Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach (6)
9. The Elysian Kingdom (8)
10. The Serene Squall (7)


Though it wasn't until very recently that I noticed that it's pretty much SNW's version of the "Masks" episode from Next Gen.

I actually liked Masks, though it was certainly one of the weirdest episodes of Star Trek. Then again, I was also a big fan of Genesis. No, the episode doesn't make any sense, but it's still fun to watch.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on June 02, 2023, 11:42:03 AM
I haven't seen Star Trek into Darkness, but I did watch the 2009 one recently and it's not as good as I remember. The lens flare, the Apple Store aesthetic, a poor villain in Eric Bana, more monotonous action scenes than I remember. I'm sure there's more, but it felt more like a regular ol' action blockbuster that happened to have Trek characters (And no disrespect to Zachary Quinto but I think Ethan Peck is a much better Spock than him). Those are just off the top of my head. Perhaps a good film for someone new, but I don't think it cracks my top 5 Trek films list.

The weird thing is that I remember disliking all of those when it came out but disregarded it cause "Trek is back baby!"

     I felt the same way about Star Trek 2009, and I couldn't understand the hype at the time that this was as good as Wrath of Khan. It wasn't horrible, but it felt like it was written by someone who was just asked to write a generic action movie based off a random Star Trek parody. I also didn't like that most of the characters were changed in key personality traits, worst of all being Chekov morphing into a Wesley Crusher clone, or that the movie was peppered with callbacks to small elements of classic Trek, because after The Big Bang Theory people think that is what it means to enjoy scifi. As you say, it's a good film for someone new to the franchise.

     Into Darkness OTOH made me give up on modern Trek. I won't go into more details though unless you want me to, because that would spoil it for you.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on June 22, 2023, 06:01:23 PM
Season 2 premiere was kind of average. Not bad, but nothing special either. The best news was that they decided to retcon the Discovery Klingons' ugly look back into the TNG-era Klingons'  (well, for the most part anyway).



Second episode was definitely better, presenting us a with a classic, thrilling court room drama. The sudden resolution seemed a bit deus ex machina to me, but it also honored the finest traditions of Star Trek. SNW's idealism - which is reminiscent of TOS and TNG - has an almost old-fashioned charm to it.

Funniest scene: Spock and the Vulcan admiral, who by all accounts "hate" each other (by Vulcan standards anyway), having a "fight" in the mess hall that looks to outsiders like nothing more than a civil, cordial conservation.. well, except for M'Benga who knows a dispute between Vulcans when he sees one.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: politicallefty on June 27, 2023, 08:26:21 AM
[BEWARE OF SPOILERS]







Season 2 premiere was kind of average. Not bad, but nothing special either. The best news was that they decided to retcon the Discovery Klingons' ugly look back into the TNG-era Klingons'  (well, for the most part anyway).



Second episode was definitely better, presenting us a with a classic, thrilling court room drama. The sudden resolution seemed a bit deus ex machina to me, but it also honored the finest traditions of Star Trek. SNW's idealism - which is reminiscent of TOS and TNG - has an almost old-fashioned charm to it.

Funniest scene: Spock and the Vulcan admiral, who by all accounts "hate" each other (by Vulcan standards anyway), having a "fight" in the mess hall that looks to outsiders like nothing more than a civil, cordial conservation.. well, except for M'Benga who knows a dispute between Vulcans when he sees one.

Agreed. First episode was very average. (I still don't know why Discovery did what it did with the Klingons. All they really had to do was keep the TNG-era hair and other stuff could be overlooked.)

The second episode was fantastic. It's everything I love to see in an otherwise more low-key episode. The writing and acting was spot on. I don't think the ending was a foregone conclusion like some, though we do of course know who is on the eventual mission to Talos IV. I do think this show has broken away from Gene Roddenberry's rather strict vision in an important and in a way we've seen sometimes since his passing. While maintaining the ideals and awe of an entity like the Federation, SNW isn't afraid to point out some of the Federation's major issues. In a sense, the Federation's draconian stance on genetic engineering/modification and how it enforces that through its laws seems to almost be an original sin (something that was clearly carried over from Earth's past, not necessarily any other Federation planet).

I also may have said it before, but I think Una is one of the most compelling characters on the show. Unfortunately, they killed off one of the other most compelling characters in the first season (Hemmer). It was bold to reintroduce a (sub)race that was introduced in ENT. There doesn't seem to be a Chief Engineer at the moment. I wonder if that's where Commander Pelia could come into play.

I have to say I also enjoyed some classic Star Trek humour in this episode. I was almost expecting that to be Spock's response to his onlookers.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on June 29, 2023, 03:48:41 PM
I enojyed Episode 3 too.

Sure, we have seen all this wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff before too, but it gives an opportunity to flesh-out and develop La'an's character.. and to make Paul Wesley's Kirk more likeable.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 13, 2023, 04:42:30 PM
After last week's forgettable (pun intended) "Among the Lotus Eaters" we move on to Episode 5: "Charades".

Sort of a sequel to first season's "Spock Amok", this episode continues the "Vulcans are hilarious" arc. Quite a hoot, indeed. And the Spock/Chapel shippers will be satisfied too.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on July 23, 2023, 09:58:19 AM
PSA: They went ahead and released episode 7 (the Lower Decks crossover) yesterday, and will move up the release dates of 8 through 10 by one week.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: 7,052,770 on July 23, 2023, 07:05:06 PM
PSA: They went ahead and released episode 7 (the Lower Decks crossover) yesterday, and will move up the release dates of 8 through 10 by one week.

It was decent, but probably the weakest of the season so far. Unlike most of the fanbase, I'm neither hating or fanboying out right now.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Interlocutor is just not there yet on July 25, 2023, 04:54:29 AM
Really liked the crossover episode. I'd put it behind 'Charades' as my favorite episode of the season.

So far, the season is ok. Nothing horrible or anything, but not much has really stood out to me besides those two episodes.

It also doesn't help that I'm seeing the dual strikes + Paramounts struggles and getting the sense that the Trek franchise may be put to rest again for the forseeable future.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 27, 2023, 07:47:37 AM
The Lower Decks crossover episode currently is the best-ranked SNW episode on IMDb. Personally I wouldn't regard it as that good. It does however highlight the show's overall strengths. Unlike Discovery's often overly bleak, melodramatic, shallow, clichéd plotlines SNW doesn't shy way from breaking new ground, while at the same time embracing whacky fun whenever the opportunity presents itself.

This episode is a crossover with an animated series. As such, the episode is also partly animated. Two of the animated characters make it to the "live-action universe" though and are then of course portrayed by their respective voice actors from the animated show. One of the animated characters has purple-coloured hair, therefore his live-action version does too (of course!). This is probably how the episode was originally pitched by the writers.

Just like Season 1's All Those Who Wander must have been pitched as "let's do a Alien/Aliens plot in the Star Trek universe: the Gorn are Xenomorphs, La'an is Ripley, and the episode will be - by Trek standards - really, really gory". And then they just ran with it.

Next week's episode will be a musical episode btw. Because this is Strange New Worlds, you know.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 27, 2023, 08:08:41 AM
As for the overall quality of this season so far... they seem to hit the mark about half the time.

The Broken Circle, Among the Lotus Eaters, and Lost in Translation were rather weak/boring/generic. This is basically SNW redoing Star Trek: Voyager and/or the first two seasons of Enterprise.

Ad Astra Per Aspera (thrilling courtroom drama dealing with relevant social issues in the finest tradition of classic Trek episodes like The Measure of a Man), Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow (good character development for La'an and SNW Kirk), Charades (whacky fun), Those Old Scientists (whacky fun too) were rather strong.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on July 27, 2023, 03:46:13 PM
Okay, today's "Klingon War" was unusually... heavy.

Alongside Ad Astra Per Aspera the most serious one this season.

Some musing about guilt, shame, forgiveness, the lack thereof, justice, and revenge.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on August 10, 2023, 02:51:12 PM
Finally caught up and watched that musical episode.

I guess it's okay enough, if you happen to like that kind of thing.

The one thing that made it stand out is Christina Chong's (La'an) performance. Jesus, can that woman sing. She should do an album or something.

Now on to the season finale.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on August 10, 2023, 05:22:43 PM
Season 2 finale sure does deliver.

SNW's Big Bad, "Xenomorphs-meet-the-Borg" the Gorn are back, and just like in the previous season, the episode is ripe with Alien references.

By the end our heroes look pretty screwed, although canonically we already know that Enterprise will somehow survive this cliffhanger.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: k120 on September 12, 2023, 07:30:08 PM
Okay, today's "Klingon War" was unusually... heavy.

Alongside Ad Astra Per Aspera the most serious one this season.

Some musing about guilt, shame, forgiveness, the lack thereof, justice, and revenge.

This was by far the most frustrating episode of the season.
Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.



Lower Decks S4 is off to a good start. It was great to see Voyager and we're getting some interesting character arcs. And Moopsy!


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on December 06, 2023, 08:48:04 AM
After a rewatch of the third season of Picard the final ten episodes kind of grew on me and I would now rate them on par with SNW or LD.

While I still think that it was an odd decision to film almost the entire season in darkness (what is this? Blade Runner? Highlander II: The Quickening? :D ), it works as a reboot of Star Trek: Picard and/or TNG's unofficial eighth season and/or TNG's unofficial fifth movie in form of a miniseries.

Bringing back these iconic characters was a great idea and thematically the season is held together with the overarching topic of "family", both metaphorically and literally: The former Enterprise command crew as an estranged family who gets back together, Picard got a son, Riker and Troi still deal with the loss of their kid, La Forge has issues with his daughters, Picard's complicated relationship with his "surrogate" daughter Ro Laren and so on...

Raffi Musiker is the only one of the show's original characters who is retained, but she is utilized as sort of a sidekick and foil for Worf in a very effective way. Jack Crusher (Junior) appears to be a cross between Jim Kirk and Han Solo with daddy issues, but the character works too. Captain Shaw is still a bit too over-the-top for my taste in his introduction (how does Starfleet allow someone to remain in command who willfully bullies his first officer on a regular basis?), but since this merely serves as a starting point for *character development* it is easily forgiven.

Speaking of character development, Worf is now a calm, meditative Zen master (which at the same time makes him a bit of a goofball who serves as comic relief with his sometimes misplaced fortune cookie wisdoms), Data has become almost fully human (but is also still a bit of a goofball due to this being a recent development), and Seven is a much warmer, kinder person almost three decades after being de-assimilated by Janeway.

TNG has effectively three finales now: All Good Things..., Star Trek: Nemesis, and The Last Generation. While Nemesis is still a major letdown, the other two episodes are almost on par with each other, and quite fittingly both end with the old TNG crew holding a poker game.

Only one question remains: Where the hell was Wesley (especially after him being teasered in the Season 2 finale)?


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: °Leprechaun on December 06, 2023, 11:27:18 AM
The episode where one alien is half black half white and his enemy is also but on different sides of his face, is a good reminder of the world today. Like in the episode, hatred of the "other" is everywhere.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 04, 2024, 07:41:29 PM
Tonight I watched what must be worst piece of Star Trek ever produced... the episode Worst Contact from the animated mini-series Very Short Treks.

It's only three minutes long and features guest voice appearances by Jonathan Frakes and Gates McFadden and I recommend not to watch it.

It's just unfunny, pointless, and most importantly disgusting. In a sense, Trek's version of  The Human Centipede. Did Frakes need the money? Did he even get any money? Were execs at CBS on drugs? Were they kept out of the loop on this one? We'll never know.


Title: Re: The Official Star Trek Thread
Post by: k120 on March 04, 2024, 07:44:03 PM
Tonight I watched what must be worst piece of Star Trek ever produced... the episode Worst Contact from the animated mini-series Very Short Treks.

It's only three minutes long and features guest voice appearances by Jonathan Frakes and Gates McFadden and I recommend not to watch it.

It's just unfunny, pointless, and most importantly disgusting. In a sense, Trek's version of  The Human Centipede. Did Frakes need the money? Did he even get any money? Were execs at CBS on drugs? Were they kept out of the loop on this one? We'll never know.

Fortunately it's not canon, so we can all safely ignore it and forget about it.