Talk Elections

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Or should we eat more like the USDA told us to from 1992-2005?
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Let me tell you what I've realized.... I am not the healthiest fella on the planet but I can get around and enjoy life and 69 may not sound old to many of you but I didn't think I'd lvie this long when I was growing up...definitely not live the type of life I do now. I have realized much of life and health is simply how much you enjoy life- people I know who live the longest have the least stress and that makes them lives longer

If having a good hearty meal relaxes you- that is healtheir then the people I know (including my lady friend) who stress over exercise. That is one rason I try not to get worked up over some of the posts on this board- even the ones that offend me- because it is unhealthy to be stressed

I've always preferred the second pyramid.

Oh I definitely agree with you about stress and happiness. Living a happy life is good for your health as well. I think the trick is to make that hearty meal that gives you happiness more healthy for you. Substituting red meat for poultry or fish is a start. If you can completely replace that with legumes, even better. Eating vegetarian food shouldn't have to be bad. And vegetarian food certainly is not limited to a tasteless salad.

I like olot of meat AND veggies.

I'd have a lot of gastro trouble if the foundation of my diet was veggies, fruits, and beans. Whole grains are important. The gov't should have made the distinction between them and the super-refined garbage carbs that most people live on.

Protein makes up 50% of my diet most days. I try to eat 150g a day since I've starting hitting the weights pretty seriously. The second pyramid makes more sense. That said, as long as you aren't eating too many awful things it probably doesn't make much of a difference. My grandfather is 90 years old and still really active, and he eats "unhealthy" things all the time.

Wasn't the second pyramid revealed to have been partially written by dairy lobbyists and overprescribed the amount of dairy necessary by a huge amount, or am I misremembering?

There's no real reason for anybody to eat dairy. Milk is for babies and most non-whites have a lot of trouble digesting it. That said, I love dairy products.

Yikes if I followed the first one I would be deficient in pretty much everything. I'm already borderline iron deficient half the time and would probably do well to eat more beef not less. Not to mention the dairy being limited to twice weekly...let's throw calcium/bone problems into the mix as well.

6-11 servings of the grains/pasta?  No!  I would still be a fat. 

The 4 food groups used in the '80s was fail.

What do you think of the top pyramid? What kind of food do you eat since you decided to live a more healthy lifestyle?

If you are deficient in iron or calcium, you just have to eat vegetables that are high in those products. Lentils, soys, beans etc usually have these in high quantities and have a lot of protein, and in some cases fiber. There is no need for iron to only come from beef. There is no need for you to drink milk to get your calcium. The beef comes with a ton of unnecessary saturated fats. Casein in milk might increase your risk of cancer....well, that's the controversial part. In any case you should at least make sure the milk is non-fat.

But neither is there any reason whatsoever not to do so regularly unless you have these digestion issues.

The real answer is: it depends on how much work you do and how much stress you have. The less of the first and the most of the latter, the easier you'll grow fat on a diet of sweets and meat and cereals. Work being exclusively phsyical labour, of course.

It is rather absurd to be so concerned about what you eat - after all everything is the luck of the genes anyway.

I use a pyramid like this:

Milk - never, except in coffee or tea, and then mostly sweetened condensed
Fruits - rarely, don't really like them
cheese - rarely, mostly because its hard to find here
Organs - love them!
general vegetables
muscle meats - quite a lot, particularly fish, chicken, and pork.. I would eat more beef but its so-so here
Green leafy vegetables - mostly ones I'd never seen till I came here
rice - I would say the amount of rice, green-leafies, and meats that I eat are roughly equal

This, combined with utter laziness and strict avoidance of the sun has kept me in fine fettle.

I'm not going to get 2400 mg of calcium a day eating almost exclusively beans and legumes. That's not going to happen. I need to be taking a ton of supplements. The calcium I could manage decently well most of the time but probably would end up with a few more occasional stress fractures which would really suck.

If I try to get iron only from non-heme sources, I would have to a ton more of it because the absorption would go down. I point-blank refuse to ever take iron supplements again unless I am in a state of health emergency. Taking them was the worst dietary experience I have ever had.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Fair enough, it seems like your body need these products. I think it goes without saying though that most Americans can drastically reduce their intake of animal products and still be fine, in fact be much healthier. Even you probably can manage your iron with only a few servings of low fat cuts of red meat a week along with lots and lots of high iron vegetables. Balance is key as with everything. Also you can drink milk without fat and still get your calcium (leaving aside the controversial cancer findings).

I think a vegetarian diet needs a lot of variety, that I sometimes find lacking in American supermarkets. One food that has a lot of Iron, and my grandmother was recommended to eat after her bypass, is the trunk of the Banana plant. Haven't ever seen those in an American supermarket.

What type of quack made that first one?

What exactly do you disagree with there and what are you basing that on?

The second one is pretty realistic, the first reminds me of some type of vegetarian propaganda (though obviously aimed at limiting meat eating instead of eliminating it)

Why is it propaganda? Can't the second one also be propaganda to protect the cattle and dairy industry? What are you basing this on?

Meh, I'd just hate eating like that.

It doesn't make sense to put whole grains and nuts/seeds in the same category.  The carb/protein/fat ratios are just too different.

Yeah, I found that a little odd as well. But if you think about it, many nuts do have a lot of unsaturated fats. While they are fine in a controlled amount, I wouldn't recommend anyone eat as much almonds as their heart desires. Although substituting it for something like chips is an excellent idea.

BRTD, I understand where you are coming from. I doubt I will ever be a complete vegetarian, but I know where most of my nutrition should come from.

Meat (tri tip), fish (catfish with spices on it fried in olive oil is what God eats every day), poultry (mostly turkey, lots of veggies, orange juice (I use that for my morning protein drink mix, and after I work out), and booze (that is where I get most of my sugar  :P).

I have my own little pyramid in short. The government has their pyramid reflecting the fashions of the day, and I have mine. Once again, I just ignore the government's good advice. I guess I am just hopelessly incorrigible.

If weed was a food it would be at the tippy top of Torie's pyramid :)

Weed can be in food form. :) Well, more like dessert. Oh and you must mean the base, not the top. :P

Torie, you follow the low carb diet, eh? I think that's a great way to lose weight, but I think you need to have some after the fat is gone and if you are working out a lot. Eat whole grains, avoid white bread and rice, and eat in moderation obviously and you should be fine. Fish is great too. Although there is no reason to eat animal products, they just taste so damn good, don't they?

Come on, nobody feels good eating all that carbohydrate and so little protein, Sbane.

Yes, which is why they should cut the carbs and substitute with vegetables and sugars from fruits. And instead of animal protein, they should eat legumes, beans, lentils etc.

Are you serious?  What are you, a vegetarian?

Speaking of tasty inners......no dinner update in a while.

Not really, and don't intend to become a "pure" one. But yes a large part of your diet should be coming from unprocessed plant sources. A little fish or turkey/chicken here or there is fine but red meat really should be cut out of the diet unless you specifically need it for some micro nutrient.

I agree with you on red meat, as I don't recommend anyone eat it daily if they can help it. I usually stick to lean proteins like fish or chicken along with unprocessed vegetables or fruit. I eat very little bread or carbs unless its wheat on a sandwich for lunch. I also drink a lot of isolated whey protein to aid with recovery in my workout regimen.

But I can tell you from first hand experiences and from friends that legumes/lentils/beans are nice substitutes, but they hardly are replacements for animal protein IF you go any sort of strength training or lift regularly.

I just ate vegetarian last night, ironically!  I was starving in the bed all night.


Oh good lord, no way!  What you want is a lot of animal fat - like eggs, fatback/lard, fatty fishes, chicken-fat or duck, and so forth.

Fat is what the body needs.  Fat, salt, and organs, such as livers and kidneys.  Think about what the animals eat as soon as they kill the Wildebeest.

Well, there is an UFC fighter (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Danzig#_) who is vegan and he doesn't seem to have trouble With his protein intake. The key of course is to eat even more plant based protein. That being said if someone is active, eating some animals is just fine.
Presumably we also need lots of trans fats in our diet?

There should be a difference in eating habits between animals who have a limited amount to eat and who have to exert themselves to get that food and contemporary humans. The reason animals eat fat is because it provides you quick calories. And our brains, including animals, are wired to love that stuff since it can save your life in the wild. Leading a sedentary lifestyle and eating that will lead to a shortened life span. And while all you have to do is exercise vigorously and you can eat that crap, many people don't have the time to do that. Diet modification seems like an easier way to go for them. Plus the moral arguments about not killing something that doesn't need to be killed and environmental concerns. But making a moral argument to you is a waste of time.

You got that right!

sbane is finally getting it ;)

And after all 'moral arguments' are weightless not just with me, but with everyone and in every way in the 'real world'.

opebo your dietary advice sounds like the prevailing wisdom of the 1950s.

Haha, I knew you'd bring out the vegan body builder argument. I thought about preempting you by telling you not to, but I didn't. :P

Yeah, I understand it is possible, but they have to work much harder to balance their diet than say someone who isn't a vegan. Kudos to them who are able to do it, but they are not everyone.

Why did you decide to buff yourself up Duke?  The same reason that I did?  :)

I prefer this pyramid:

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Bacon King needs that as his signature, Inks ^^^^^^^^^

Much of the same, actually.

Also, once my girlfriend and I split, I found myself with a lot of free time and that I had let myself get lazy physically when I was with her, so I decided to go back to the basics. I feel better and it helps clear my mind when I do get a workout in. 

But Dukey can go sans testy shots, Torie, being the young greek punk he is  :P

It's certainly worth doing. I've added on 50lbs since I started at the gym, though I was starting from a lean position. If you need any hints or advice on workouts or diet let me know :)

I much prefer the 1850s in the culinary sense.

I should like to publicly announce to everyone that my vegetarian dinner of last night - like all vegetarian dinners - did give me gas.  (and when I eat my usual organs and fatback I am a guy who never gets gas).

No you don't. I mean, you probably think you do. But, actually, you don't.

Dude, it was not meant to be taken literally.  I prefer the recipes I read from the 1890s and 1910.. and I presume they ate some traditional things quite similar in 1850.  Of course I mean only the diet of the very rich.  Also quite a lot of Thai dishes that I do love have a long history, and were I think probably not hugely different in the last century.