Talk Elections

Election Archive => Survivor => Topic started by: politicus on April 25, 2012, 06:58:46 PM



Title: Danish prime ministers. Thorvald Stauning is a survivor!
Post by: politicus on April 25, 2012, 06:58:46 PM
(Højre (The Right) was the Conservative party and Venstre (The Left) is the Liberals.)


Danish heads of government since 1849:

Count Adam Wilhelm Moltke, 1848-1852 (no party) (eliminated in round 9)

Christian Albrecht Bluhme, 1852-53, 1864-65 (Højre) (eliminated in round 7)

Anders Sandøe Ørsted, 1853-54 (conservative with no party affiliation) (eliminated in round 5)

Peter Georg Bang, 1854-56 (no party) (eliminated in round 5)

Carl Christopher Georg Andræ, 1856-57 (Friends of the Peasants) (eliminated in round 11)

Carl Christian Hall, 1857-59 and 1860-63 (National Liberal) (eliminated in round 2)

Carl Eduard Rotwitt,  1859-60 (Friends of the Peasants) (eliminated in round 5)

Ditlev Gothardt Monrad, 1863-64 (National Liberal) (eliminated in round 8 )

Count Christian Emil Krag-Juel-Vind-Frijs,  1865-70 (Højre) (no party) (eliminated in round 9)

Count Ludvig Holstein-Holsteinsborg, 1870-74 (Centre Party) (eliminated in round 15)

Christen Fonnesbech, 1874-75, (Højre) (eliminated in round 10)

Jacob Brønnum Scavenius Estrup, 1875-94 (Højre) (eliminated in round 5)

Baron Tage Reedtz-Thott, 1894-97 (Højre) (eliminated in round 14)

Hugo Egmont Hørring, 1897-1900 (Højre) (eliminated in round 5)

Hannibal Sehested, 1900-01 (Højre) (eliminated in round 5)

Johan Henrik Deuntzer, 1901-05 (Venstre)  (eliminated in round 7)

Jens Christian "I. C." Christensen, 1905-08 (Venstre)  (eliminated in round 3)

Niels Neergaard, 1908-09 and 1920-24 (Venstre) (eliminated in round 12)

Count Ludvig Holstein-Ledreborg, 1909 (Venstre)  (eliminated in round 13)

Klaus Berntsen, 1910-13 (Venstre) (eliminated in round 12)

Carl Theodor Zahle, 1909-1910 and 1913-20 (Social Liberals)  (eliminated, round 22)

Otto Liebe, 1920 (no party) (eliminated, round 1)

Michael Petersen Friis, 1920 (no party) (eliminated, round 2)

Thomas Madsen-Mygdal,  1926-29 (Venstre) (eliminated in round 6)

Thorvald Stauning, 1924-26 and 1929-42 (Social Democrats)

Vilhelm Buhl, 1942, 1945 (Social Democrats) (eliminated, round 1)

Erik Scavenius,  1942-43 (Social Liberals)  (eliminated, round 1)

Knud Kristensen, 1945-47 (Venstre) (eliminated in round 14)

Hans Hedtoft, 1947-50 and 1953-55  (Social Democrats) (eliminated in round 16)

Erik Eriksen 1950-53 (Venstre) (eliminated in round 17)

Hans Christian ("H. C.") Hansen, 1955-60 (Social Democrats) (eliminated in round 20)

Viggo Kampmann,  1960-62 (Social Democrats) (eliminated in round 4)

Jens Otto Krag, 1962-68 and 1971-72 (Social Democrats) (eliminated in the final)

Hilmar Baunsgaard, 1968-71 (Social Liberals) (eliminated in round 18)

Anker Jørgensen, 1972-73 and 1975-82 (Social Democrats) (eliminated in round 6)

Poul Hartling, 1973-75 (Venstre) (eliminated in round 12)

Poul Schlüter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poul_Schl%C3%BCterPoul Schlüter), 1982-93 (Conservative) (eliminated in round 21)

Poul Nyrup Rasmussen,  1993-2001 (Social Democrats) (eliminated in round 19)

Anders Fogh Rasmussen, 2001-2009 (Venstre) (eliminated in round 6)

Lars Løkke Rasmussen,  2009-2011 (Venstre)  (eliminated, round 1)

Helle Thorning-Schmidt, 2011- (Social Democats)  (eliminated, round 3)


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 1
Post by: politicus on April 25, 2012, 07:08:47 PM
Eliminate:

Liebe
Friis
Scavenius (traitor)
Buhl

Immune:

Stauning
Zahle


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 1
Post by: Nhoj on April 26, 2012, 12:37:45 PM
Eliminate:
Thorning-Schmidt
Rasmussen :P [all three works fine]


immune
Wilhelm Moltke
Hans Christian


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 2
Post by: politicus on April 26, 2012, 03:43:07 PM
Thanks for playing Nhoj! Hope someone will join us for next round.

Liebe, Buh, Scavenius and Lars Løkke Rasmussen were eliminated in round 1. H. C. Hansen and Stauning immune in round 2-4.

Ties decided by coin toss.

My votes in round 2:

Friis 3 (not elected)
Hall 2 (got us into war with the Prussians)
Hørning 1


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 2
Post by: big bad fab on April 26, 2012, 05:43:37 PM
I'm sorry, but I'm more or less done with the game... :P
Too lazy to read about them...
6 months ago, it would have been different... :(


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 2
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on April 27, 2012, 08:37:52 AM
I had to do some research before voting and I'll still have to read more, but for now:

Carl Christian Hall: 3
Anders Fogh Rasmussen: 2
Michael Petersen Friis: 1


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 2
Post by: Nhoj on April 27, 2012, 11:35:32 AM
3 Helle Thorning-Schmidt
2 Count Ludvig Holstein-Holsteinsborg
1 Michael Petersen Friis


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 2
Post by: politicus on April 27, 2012, 02:49:10 PM
Result of round 2

C. C. Hall 5
Michael Friis 5

Helle Thorning-Scmidt 3
Ludvig Holstein-Holsteinsborg 2
Anders Fogh Rasmussen 2
Viggo Hørning 1

Hall and Friis eliminated

Round 3:

Eliminate 1 prior to the introduction of universal suffrage in 1915 and 1 after. Zahle can count as both.

My votes:

Before 1915: I. C. Christensen (for allowing his minister of justice P. A. Alberti to swindle more than 200 mio. Euros in todays money from a farmers savings bank. Should have known what the fat bastard was up to!)

After 1915: Anders Fogh Rasmussen for getting us into the Iraq war under false pretences and for allying his Liberal party with the bigots in the Danish Peoples Party.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 3
Post by: Cincinnatus on April 27, 2012, 06:14:30 PM
I had to do some research before voting and I'll still have to read more, but for now:

Carl Christian Hall: 3
Anders Fogh Rasmussen: 2
Michael Petersen Friis: 1



Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 3
Post by: politicus on April 28, 2012, 12:10:14 PM
I had to do some research before voting and I'll still have to read more, but for now:

Carl Christian Hall: 3
Anders Fogh Rasmussen: 2
Michael Petersen Friis: 1

Yeah, I saw that, but temporary votes doesn't work that well in survivor. You need the game to move relatively quickly - especially in the early stage, where its basically about getting rid of dead wood. His choices where pretty consistent (two warmongers and a non-elected interim figure), and I have had no objections from Kal.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 3
Post by: Nhoj on April 28, 2012, 03:54:07 PM
I. C. Christensen

after
Helle Thorning-Schmidt


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 3
Post by: politicus on April 29, 2012, 08:17:38 PM
Result of round 3

Eliminated:

I. C. Christensen
Helle Thorning-Schmidt after coin toss

Round 4: BADASS-round!

Four Danish premiers can qualify as badasses. Eliminate one badass and make another immune for 3 rounds.

Jens Otto Krag: Ladykiller with (well deserved) playboy image who built the foundation of the welfare state, while nailing an enormous amount of women - sometimes during state dinners -  and married moviestar Helle Virkner.

Viggo Kampmann: Brilliant economist who was manio-depressive. Often toured the pubs of Copenhagen for days without telling his staff, but still managed to rule the country for two years.

Bishop D. G. Monrad: Maniodepressive rhetorical genius and radical nationalist who stubbornly refused to surrender or compromise in the war of 1864 against Prussia and Austria. Left the country afterwards to become a pioneer in the wilderness of New Zealand.

J. B. S. Estrup: Ruled Denmark for 19 years using provisional budgets and ignoring the parliaments democratically elected second chamber. Created his own private paramilitary mounted gendarmerie. Survived an assassination attempt, where the assailant fired on his coat button, but Estrup kept his cool and just kept walking on his way home. (which is his main claim to being a badass)

My votes:

Eliminate: Monrad
Immune: Krag


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 3
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on April 30, 2012, 04:31:08 PM
Immune: D. G. Monrad (come on, from Prime Ministrer to a pioneer at the end of the world, that's badass!)

Eliminate: Viggo Kampmann (meh, just two years)


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 3
Post by: politicus on May 01, 2012, 05:03:20 AM
Immune: D. G. Monrad (come on, from Prime Ministrer to a pioneer at the end of the world, that's badass!)

Eliminate: Viggo Kampmann (meh, just two years)
Yeah, but I was going more by their abilities as PM.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 4 - BADASS round!
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 01, 2012, 08:33:59 AM
Eliminate Christen Andreas Fonnesbech (it was hard to find something about him, so I suppose he can go out).

Immune Poul Nyrup Rasmussen (he's someone I know something about)


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 4 - BADASS round!
Post by: politicus on May 01, 2012, 03:30:13 PM
Sorry, Julio but you have to choose between the four "badass"-candidates here in round 4.

I agree Fonnesbech is a transitional figure that should go, but Ill make a purge round for transitional figures, mere figureheads and civil servants playing politicians in the next round.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 4 - BADASS round!
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 01, 2012, 04:41:04 PM
Sorry, Julio but you have to choose between the four "badass"-candidates here in round 4.

I agree Fonnesbech is a transitional figure that should go, but Ill make a purge round for transitional figures, mere figureheads and civil servants playing politicians in the next round.

Ok, I read it but then I didn't remember I had to vote among those 4. So, I suppose I'll vote like you.
Eliminate: Monrad
Immune: Krag



Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 4 - BADASS round!
Post by: Nhoj on May 01, 2012, 07:15:38 PM
Immune: D. G. Monrad (
Eliminate: Viggo Kampmann


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 5 - 19th century dead wood
Post by: politicus on May 02, 2012, 03:21:38 AM
Results of round 4

After coin toss

Immune: D. G. Monrad (who is probably the most disastrous PM Denmark has ever had  ;)  ).
Eliminated: Viggo Kampmann (by default).

Next round: Round 5 - 19th century dead wood

Eliminate 6 PMs from the 19th century (1849-1901)

My votes: Ørsted, Bang, Rottwitt, Fonnesbech, Hørring, Sehested.

The Eras

1849-1863. Age of Democracy and nationalism
Denmark has Europes most democratic constitution with universal male suffrage and a few liberal reforms get implemented. The academics in the National Liberals are the dominant party. Most of the time nothing is accomplished because all energy is focused on creating a common constitution for democratic Denmark and the absolutist duchies of Holstein (German) and Slesvig/Schleswich/Sleswick (take your pick) with both Danish and German population. Everything is extremely complicated. The Liberals try to find a way to kick those pesky Germans in Holstein out of the realm without loosing Sleswick, while the Conservatives try to keep it all together (and hopefully eliminate most of the democratic reforms in the process).
None of the PMs are really any good. But the Leftists Andræ and Rottwitt at least tries to do something meaningful. A. W. Moltke is chosen because he is affable and the richest man in the country, but presides over a government, that does steer the country through the 1. Sleswick War (1848-51) without too much trouble.

I wanna eliminate P. G. Bang for being a mere figurehead in a government torn between Leftists and National Liberals and legal scholar extraordinaire and failed politician A. S. Ørsted for being ridiculously reactionary.
Leftists Andræ and Rottwitt where inefficient too, and I vote to eliminate Rottwitt just for being a short termer with zero results.

1865-1894. Conservative backlash
The Conservative squires take power after the disastrous defeat in 1864 and creates a reactionary constitution in 1866. The National Liberals go into hiding or join the Cons. In the beginning the peasants just accept the new regime, but soon leftists creates a peasant movement with auxiliary rifle corps and unites in Venstre "The Left" in 1870. Hardman Estrup doesn't give a flying fock, rules by issuing provisional budgets, creates a political police and throws a few hotheads into jail. In the mid 1880s civil war is not unrealistic, but at some point moderates on both sides decides to make one of those boring Danish compromises instead.

I vote to eliminate Fonnesbech, a nice guy who tried to compromise i an era of hardliners and failed miserably.

1894-1901. Waiting for someone to tell the King...
After the leaders of the Liberals and the Conservatives have agreed to stop ignoring parliament everything comes to a halt for 7 years. Nobody dares to tell the king, he has to appoint a peasant or a village school teacher as head of government, so the Conservatives just hang on to power while trying to get along with the Liberals in "The Left". Baron Reedtz-Thott makes it work for a while, but are ousted by hardliners in his own party.

I vote to eliminate Hørring for ruining most of the progress of Reedtz-Thott to no good for his own party and Sehested for being an interim figure.



Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 5
Post by: Napoleon on May 06, 2012, 05:30:15 PM
Bang
Rottwitt
Holstein
Sleavig
Fonneabech
Estrup


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 5
Post by: Nhoj on May 07, 2012, 01:24:25 PM
Ørsted
Bang
Rottwitt
Hørring,
Sehested
Estrup


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 5
Post by: politicus on May 07, 2012, 02:38:19 PM
Result of round 5:

Eliminated:
Bang 3
Rottwitt 3
Ørsted 2
Hørring 2
Sehested 2
Estrup 2


Other vote getters:
Fonnesbech 2
Holstein(-Holsteinsborg) 1
Invalid 1 (Sleavig)

Fonnesbech saved after coin toss against the 4 others with 2 votes.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 6
Post by: politicus on May 07, 2012, 03:04:05 PM
Round 6

Eliminate 3 PMs by voting 3-2-1

Anker Jørgensen 3 (very likeable working class guy with a big heart, but for almost bankrupting Denmark and letting the unions boss him around. On the positive side he did have the guts to support Israel against the Arabs, but that could also be considered kind of a dumb move under the Oil Crisis. Too naive to be PM.)

Anders Fogh Rasmussen 2
For lying about the Iraq war and allying his Liberal Party with the bigots in the Danish Peoples Party.

Madsen-Mygdal 1
Diehard dogmatic Classical Liberal that alienated everybody, including his Conservative allies, with his arrogance and stubbornness. Unable to offer any solutions to the economic crisis after the crash on Wall Street. Paved the way for the Social Democrats to rule Denmark for a looong time.

We still have some dead wood: Fonnesbech, Bluhme etc. But that can wait.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 6
Post by: Nhoj on May 07, 2012, 04:44:28 PM
3 Anders Fogh Rasmussen
2 Anker Jørgensen
1 Poul Nyrup Rasmussen

Fonnesbech had a great beard going :P


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 6
Post by: politicus on May 07, 2012, 05:07:53 PM
3 Anders Fogh Rasmussen
2 Anker Jørgensen
1 Poul Nyrup Rasmussen

Fonnesbech had a great beard going :P
Yeah I like Fonnesbechs beard too.
A little curious: Nyrup was a pretty succesful PM - both on economic growth, welfare reform and influence in the EU. Did you just pick him for looking geeky? Being named Rasmussen? Or some other reason?


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 6
Post by: Nhoj on May 07, 2012, 09:09:55 PM
3 Anders Fogh Rasmussen
2 Anker Jørgensen
1 Poul Nyrup Rasmussen

Fonnesbech had a great beard going :P
Yeah I like Fonnesbechs beard too.
A little curious: Nyrup was a pretty succesful PM - both on economic growth, welfare reform and influence in the EU. Did you just pick him for looking geeky? Being named Rasmussen? Or some other reason?
The social democrats lost power with him so i imagine he did something wrong, I was mostly just filling the 1 percent spot with someone though.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 6
Post by: BlueSwan on May 08, 2012, 01:29:41 AM
Oh, too bad I didn't see this before now. Thanks to Politicus for tipping me off.

I vote off:

3 - Anders Fogh Rasmussen
The worst prime minister of my lifetime. He had all the skills but abused them in the worst possible way. We will suffer from the aftermath of this for many years to come.

2 - Knud Kristensen
Useless and played the patriot card too many times, which I despise.

1 - Madsen-Mygdal

So I don't like Venstre. ;-)

Not really sure about the rules here. If I've done something wrong let me know.

Can I make someone immune? If so I pick Nyrup Rasmussen (ideally I would have picked Scavenius, but he was eliminated in the first round).


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 6
Post by: politicus on May 08, 2012, 03:11:22 PM
Result of round 6:

Anders Fogh Rasmussen 8
Anker Jørgensen 5
Thomas Madsen-Mygdal 2

Knud Kristensen 2
Poul Nyrup Rasmussen 1


AFR, Anker Jørgensen and Thomas Madsen-Mygdal eliminated. M-M after coin toss with Knud Kristensen.

Round 7:

Eliminate 2, give 1 immunity

Eliminate:
- Law professor Johan Deuntzer (a mere figurehead in a government dominated by I. C. Christensen, only appointed so the King didnt have to talk to a village schoolteacher like Christensen, had some sleazy business contacts, didnt do anything to prevent the left wing of his party from splitting away as Radical Liberals (Social Liberals).

- Bluhme, nicknamed "The eternal Bluhme", civil servant acting as a politician whenever a staunch Conservative with no real political aspirations of his own were needed. No results. Not his fault, but still needs to be eliminated.

Immunity:
Poul Nyrup Rasmussen, because all other recent PMs have been eliminated and he was pretty good at his job.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 7
Post by: Nhoj on May 08, 2012, 04:33:41 PM
Carl Christopher Georg Andræ
Johan Deuntzer

immune
Hilmar Baunsgaard


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 7
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on May 09, 2012, 04:02:05 PM
Immune:

Poul Nyrup Rasmussen

Eliminate:

Johan Deuntzer
Tage Reedtz-Thott


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 8
Post by: politicus on May 09, 2012, 04:38:52 PM
Result of round 7:

Immunity
Nyrup Rasmussen 2
Baunsgaard 1

Elimination
Deuntzer 3
Bluhme 1

Andræ 1
Reedtz-Thott 1
 
Deuntzer and Bluhme  eliminated (after coin toss).

Immunity to Poul Nyrup Rasmussen for the next 3 rounds.

Round 8, normal  round

Ditlev Monrad.
Time to go crazy man! Manio-depressives don't make good war time leaders. He was everything Denmark didn't need in 1864.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 8
Post by: Nhoj on May 09, 2012, 11:56:03 PM
Ditlev Gothardt Monrad


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 8
Post by: Edu on May 10, 2012, 01:05:10 PM


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 8
Post by: politicus on May 10, 2012, 06:00:36 PM
Result of round 8

Monrad is eliminated

Round 9
Eliminate 2 PMs
My vote:
Fonnesbech
Andræ

Both short termers without results.

The third short termer Holstein-Ledreborg was in office for less than half a year, but he managed to settle the defence question which had been the major divisive issue in Danish politics for decades and unite the warring fractions in the Liberal party. Rather impressive in such a short time actually. Besides I kinda llike the guy, he was a very wealthy aristocrat who sided with the people and fought for universal suffrage and a parliamentary system against the interests of his class, a religious scholar and our only Catholic PM. Sort of a Danish Whig aristocrat.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: batmacumba on May 10, 2012, 07:03:51 PM
Time to kill the Lords. By precedence:
Moltke
Andræ


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: politicus on May 10, 2012, 07:11:30 PM
Time to kill the Lords. By precedence:
Moltke
Andræ
Okay, but Andræ was not a lord. Merely a mathematician of relatively humble origin.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: Nhoj on May 10, 2012, 10:33:18 PM
Count Christian Emil Krag-Juel-Vind-Frijs,

Count Ludvig Holstein-Holsteinsborg,


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: batmacumba on May 11, 2012, 12:46:27 AM
Time to kill the Lords. By precedence:
Moltke
Andræ
Okay, but Andræ was not a lord. Merely a mathemacian of relatively humble origin.

Oh, you're right. I saw Carl and read Count. So,

Moltke
Krag-Juel-Vind-Frijs


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: politicus on May 11, 2012, 05:27:24 AM
I realize you guys don't have time to do a lot of research on something as obscure as Danish PMs, but Ill try to keep this thing open a little longer than usual to see if anybody comes along, since the order of elimination is about to get a little weird.

Mogens Frijs got a necessary new constitution through parliament, established an alliance with the peasants and got a number of important reform laws through parliament. There are far worse and less capable PMs left.

Holstein-Holsteinsborg was weaker. His main claim to fame is that he managed to keep Denmark out of the Franco-Prussian war 1870-71, which prevented a potential disaster, perhaps even the annihilation of the country (all though the Brits and Russians probably wouldn't have accepted that).
But he was also a personally well liked and popular guy, who managed to build alliances between old National Liberals and moderate Conservatives and avoid an all out confrontation with the peasants representatives.

If you don't like Conservative squires, Fonnesbech was a wealthy land owner himself and a far less capable politician than either of them. And several 20th century PMs were worse than either H-H and Frijs.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: Edu on May 12, 2012, 05:52:46 AM

Sounds about right :)


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on May 12, 2012, 10:01:10 AM
Moltke
Krag-Juel-Vind-Frijs


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: Napoleon on May 12, 2012, 12:38:16 PM
Frijs
Moltke


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: politicus on May 12, 2012, 12:55:46 PM
Result of round 9: Frijs and Moltke eliminated.

Round 10:

Normal round, my vote Poul Hartling.

After the earthquake election in 1973, where right wing populist tax lawyer Mogens Glistrup swept into parliament with 27 followers and a promise to end the income tax, fire all paper pushers and replace the military with an answering machine saying "we surrender" in Russian, theologian Hartling took power with only 22 Liberal MPs and managed to double that in the next election.
But his government accomplished nothing and the Social Democrats returned to power after 18 months. Hartling was a good guy and became UN refugee high commissioner afterwards, but as a PM he was unable to do anything and a broad coalition between the main serious parties would have been much better.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: Nhoj on May 12, 2012, 01:03:43 PM
Christen Fonnesbech


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: politicus on May 12, 2012, 01:14:59 PM
LOL. Why now and not before?


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 9
Post by: Nhoj on May 13, 2012, 05:56:39 PM
Because now I feel like it :P


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 10
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 14, 2012, 05:38:57 PM
Andræ


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 10
Post by: Edu on May 15, 2012, 12:13:55 AM
Christen Fonnesbech


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 10
Post by: politicus on May 15, 2012, 01:40:47 AM
Result of round 10

Fonnesbech 2
Andræ 1
Hartling 1

Fonnesbech is (finally!) eliminated.

Round 11, normal round

In the 20th century the remaining weak PMs are from the Liberals.The three other centre-right figures were much better than the weakest Liberals and the remaining Social Democrats are either considered great (Stauning, H. C. Hansen and Krag) or good (Hedtoft, Nyrup) by historians.

You guys didn't want too eliminate Hartling (who is an obvious choice), so Ill try someone else.

The two moderate heroes from the constitutional struggle in the 1880s and 90s Klaus Berntsen and Niels Neergaard were both waaay past their prime when they became PMs. Berntsen laid some important groundwork for the Democratic 1915 constitution, but little else. Eminent historian and first class scholar Niels Neergaard was a short termer in his first period and in his second he presided over  a major Banking Scandal in his second term without a proper clean up, a little too focused on sparing the upper class and the court for any unpleasantness IMO.

I vote to eliminate Neergaard who also is remembered as one of the dullest Danish PMs whereas Berntsen provided us with a large stock of classical anecdotes.



Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 11
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 15, 2012, 07:37:00 AM
Andræ


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 11
Post by: Nhoj on May 15, 2012, 08:27:55 AM
Carl Christopher Georg Andræ


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 11
Post by: politicus on May 16, 2012, 01:48:47 AM
Result of round 11

Andræ 2
Neergaard 1

Andræ eliminated

Round 12

Eliminate 3 PMs by voting 3-2-1

My votes:

Neergaard 3
Berntsen 2
Hartling 1

The two remaining 19th century guys are not the best from that periode, but I feel like saving them for now.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 11
Post by: BlueSwan on May 16, 2012, 02:56:35 AM
I totally agree. Get rid of those.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 12
Post by: Nhoj on May 16, 2012, 08:11:56 AM
3 Rasmussen
2 Neergaard
1 Holstein-Ledreborg


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 12
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 17, 2012, 08:27:51 AM
Neergaard 3
Hartling 2
Berntsen 1


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 12
Post by: politicus on May 17, 2012, 10:02:14 AM
Result of round 12:

Neergaard 10
Hartling 6
Berntsen 4

Nyrup 3
Holstein-Ledreborg 1

Neergaard, Hartling and Berntsen eliminated.

Round 13, normal round:

My vote: Holstein-Ledreborg

Despite all his qualities, he was a short termer after all.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 13
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 17, 2012, 02:06:20 PM
Ludvig Holstein-Ledreborg

Only 3 months as President, come on!


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 13
Post by: Nhoj on May 17, 2012, 02:19:25 PM
Ludvig Holstein-Ledreborg


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 13
Post by: Edu on May 17, 2012, 06:43:56 PM


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 13
Post by: politicus on May 18, 2012, 02:12:36 AM
Result of round 13:

Holstein-Ledreborg eliminated unanimously.

Round 14:

Eliminate 1 PM before WW2 and 1 PM after the war.

My votes go to two guys, who failed to achieve their political projects and alienated large parts of their party in the process. This sets them apart from the remaining 10 PMs who were generally successful.

Before:

Tage Reedtz-Thott
Tried to reach a compromise between Liberals and Conservatives, but failed. Splitting his party in warring factions, which ultimately led to its demise. Had the right policies, but failed to deliver.

Knud Kristensen
I kinda like "Black Knud", who was the archtypical maverick, who never bowed to the establishment, kept speaking his heavy jutlandic dialect and excelled in one-liners. But he wasnt succesful and has to go before the final stage of the game.

His main project was a referendum in Southern Sleswick to capitalize on the change of national identity among the locals after the German defeat and get the border moved southwards. An idea that was rejected by almost all others in the political  establishment - including half his own party - who feared that the change of heart among the starving and disillusioned population was temporary and would backfire later on when Germany regained its strength.  Actually since the Germans lost so much territory in the east, they wouldn't have cared about a few square kilometers in Sleswick, and the territory gained would have been more or less Danish speaking today because of immigration from DK. So it could have worked, but KK failed to convince his own party and the Conservatives, lost power to the Social Democrats after only two years, and had to leave his party to form a right wing splinter group, that never got off the ground. Hardly a success!



Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 14
Post by: Nhoj on May 18, 2012, 12:04:26 PM
Tage Reedtz-Thott
Knud Kristensen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 14
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 18, 2012, 08:05:29 PM
Holstein-Holsteinsborg
Kristensen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 14
Post by: politicus on May 19, 2012, 03:46:26 AM
Result of round 14:

Before WW2

Reedtz-Thott 2
Holstein-Holsteinsborg 1

After WW2

Knud Kristensen 3

Reedtz-Thott and Knud Kristensen are eliminated.


Round 15:

We now have 10 guys left who were all pretty capable. There is a concentration of PMs in the 50s and 60s (Hedtoft, Eriksen, Hansen, Krag, Baunsgaard), this was also the era where the full scale universal welfare state was build, so any evaluation of this period depends on how you view that particular social model.

The objective choice for the next elimination is Holstein-Holsteinsborg, but in order not to eradicate the 19th century guys all together - or throw out the one remaining liberal (Eriksen) - Ill vote Hans Hedtoft.
The weakest of the 5 remaining Social Democrats (all though far the most likable IMO). Lost power in 1950. Failed to accomplish his big project of a Nordic defence alliance as an alternative to Danish NATO membership (an impossible idea because of Norways interests).



Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 15
Post by: Edu on May 19, 2012, 05:26:50 AM
Hans Hedtoft


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 15
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 19, 2012, 06:28:26 AM
Holstein-Holsteinsborg


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 15
Post by: Nhoj on May 19, 2012, 10:33:41 AM
Holstein-Holsteinsborg


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 15
Post by: politicus on May 20, 2012, 02:52:45 AM
Result of round 15:

Hedtoft 2
Holstein-Holsteinsborg 2

Holstein-Holsteinsborg eliminated after coin toss. Only 20th century guys left, but since the two most capable 19th century PMs (Frijs and Estrup) has already been eliminated, that's no great loss.

Round 16:

Hans Hedtoft

The two one-termers are the obvious alternatives. Both decent guys, that just couldn't hang on to power in the SD heyday.

Eriksen managed to build a coalition with the Liberal party's old rivals, the Conservative Peoples Party, for the first time and was the driving force behind our present 1953 constitution, but lost power to the SD after just one term, never to regain it in his long leadership term.

Baunsgaard: Charmer, good on TV, managed to more than double the size of his party and form a centre-right alliance with the Liberals and Conservatives, but then overplayed his hand. Abolished abortion, legalized porn and increased taxes 50% in three years to expand the public welfare sector.
Not what voters had expected from a centre-right coalition and the government was thrown out after just one term. Ironically replaced by SD - big government party par excellence.

Since Baunsgaard was a social liberal, he was essentially just following party line and highly successful in persuading Conservatives to support his views, but the sheer pace of his actions laid the foundation for the right wing populist backlash in 1973 and his idea of forming a stable centre-right alternative to the SD (with his own party as the leading force) was a failure. 


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 16
Post by: Napoleon on May 20, 2012, 03:37:53 AM
Eriksen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 16
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 20, 2012, 07:25:24 AM
Erik Eriksen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 16
Post by: Nhoj on May 20, 2012, 07:44:52 PM
Hans Hedtoft


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 16
Post by: Edu on May 20, 2012, 07:58:17 PM
Hans Hedtoft


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 16
Post by: politicus on May 21, 2012, 02:09:56 AM
Result of round 16

Hans Hedtoft 3
Erik Eriksen 2

Hedtoft eliminated.

Round 17, normal round

Erik Eriksen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 17
Post by: big bad fab on May 21, 2012, 09:41:07 AM
Really should have voted here from the beginning, it's a fine survivor :(


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 17
Post by: Nhoj on May 21, 2012, 03:33:00 PM
Erik Eriksen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 17
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 21, 2012, 08:01:44 PM


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 17
Post by: politicus on May 22, 2012, 03:13:37 AM
Result of round 17

Last of the Liberals my great grand fathers old class mate from agricultural school, farmer and true son of the Fionian soil Erik Eriksen eliminated 3-0. A strong leader and inspiration for cartoonist Bo Bojesens much loved satire "Venstrevikingerne" (The Liberal Vikings) as chieftain Erik of Ringe (which was the name of the place he had his farm, but also means lousy in Danish ;) ).
Sad to see you go Erik, but you were a short termer after all. Should have axed those red bastards a little harder in 1953 ;)

Round 18, normal round

Hilmar Baunsgaard

Short profile of the rest of them:

Lawyer Carl Theodor Zahle headed the government under WW1 and managed to walk the thin line between German demands and anti-German sentiments in the population and keep Denmark out of the war. Broke the laissez faire economic policy and introduced price regulations that irritated the business world and laid the foundations for big government in a previously very liberal country.
His government included four great personalities: minister of the interior, newspaper editor Ove Rode, historian and defense minister Peter Munch, diplomat Erik Scavenius and orientalist and theatrical critic Edvard Brandes as treasurer. The foursome is often called the four most intelligent men ever to sit in a Danish government and  the results of the government has been attributed to them rather than their boss. But any guy who can get four big egos to work together deserves respect IMO and Zahle is underappreciated by historians.

Tobacco worker Thorvald Stauning ruled Denmark with a steady hand for 15 years including the depression and the early phase of the German occupation. The bearded father of the nation with the deep booming voice won a landslide victory in 1935 under the legendary slogan ”Stauning or Chaos” (so glad Chaos didn't win ;) )  and outmanouvred all his opponents, right and left, while laying the foundation for the welfare state. Can be criticised for disarming the country in the 30s, but given Denmark geography any attempt to defend the country against the Germans would have been futile anyway.

Highly efficient working class SD apparatchik H. C. Hansen got universal state pensions (”peoples pensions”) implemented, fought the commies in the labour movement and strengtened Danish relations with the US and the rest of NATO. On the negative side he lied to the voters about giving the US green light to station nuclear arms in Greenland and was kinda boring ;) Was voted second best PM by a group of Danish historians in 2009. Guess that's true if you value strong leadership above everything else.

Brilliant economist Jens Otto Krag was one of the main architects of the second phase of building the universal welfare state and laid the ground work for Danish EEC (today EU) membership. Ladykiller and serial philanderer despite being married to a beautiful movie star. Had an artistic temperament and retired to pursue an (unsuccessful) career as an artist after winning the EEC membership referendum in 1972.

Lawyer Poul Schlüter managed to keep a string of minority coalition governments going through the 80s and early 90s and stabilize the horrible economy he had inherited after his SD predecessor. Made his Conservatives the largest centre-right party for the first time in a hundred years. Got the European Inner Market approved in a 1986 referendum, but lost the Maastricht-treaty referendum in 1992. Had to leave office after his minister of justice and mentor Erik Ninn-Hansen was convicted in constitutional court for illegally refusing Tamil refugees the right to get their families to Denmark. Schlüter was not a man of detail but a good communicator and mediator who managed to get his governments working as a team. Would have been remembered as a great PM if he had left office in 1990, but hung on to power for a little to long.

Economist and working class lad Poul Nyrup Rasmussen successfully kick started the economy, made important structural labour market reforms and presided over solid economic growth. Perceived as a poor communicator in Denmark and nicknamed "wool-in-mouth", but performed well on the European stage, where he was widely respected.  Moved his party to the right on immigration without succeeding in keeping xenophobic working class voters and lost election in 2001 after trying to style himself as a "father of the nation"-type and cash in on voters anxieties after 9/11.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 18
Post by: Nhoj on May 22, 2012, 04:38:58 PM
Poul Nyrup Rasmussen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 18
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 22, 2012, 06:41:56 PM
Hilmar Baunsgaard


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 17
Post by: politicus on May 23, 2012, 03:09:58 AM
Really should have voted here from the beginning, it's a fine survivor :(
You are welcome to join. Maybe you can help protect the remaining Conservative (Schluther) a little longer :).


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 18
Post by: big bad fab on May 23, 2012, 03:39:38 AM
Why not, after all ?

Baunsgaard


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 18
Post by: politicus on May 23, 2012, 04:07:55 AM
Result of round 18

Western lover Hilmar Baunsgaard lost the shotout against Nyrup 3-1 and is eliminated.
With the short termers gone, Ill be a bit more subjective in my voting, otherwise it will be too boring.

Round 19, normal round

Poul Nyrup Rasmussen

A bit hackish, because both Zahle and Schlüter are probably weaker, but I don't want an all SD final and since Nhoj has been trying to throw Rasmussen out since we started, I am curious who will be his default choice if Nyrup is no longer around. 8)


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 18
Post by: Edu on May 23, 2012, 06:32:48 AM
Poul Nyrup Rasmussen

Very informative posts, Politicus ;)


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 18
Post by: big bad fab on May 23, 2012, 06:42:26 AM
Poul Nyrup Rasmussen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 18
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 23, 2012, 01:17:51 PM
Poul Schlüter


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 18
Post by: Nhoj on May 23, 2012, 06:38:54 PM
Poul Nyrup Rasmussen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 19
Post by: politicus on May 24, 2012, 02:49:02 AM
Result of round 19

Poul Nyrup Rasmussen 4
Poul Schlüter 1

Nyrup eliminated

Round 20, normal round

Ill be an even bigger hack than last time and choose H. C. Hansen, even if elderly working class SDs and countless Danish political historians would be appalled if they knew this ;). Strong leader in total control of his party, who would have ruled DK through the 60s if he hadn't died of a stroke in 1960, but a bit too cynical for my taste and only got 5 years as PM after all. Also I only want two SDs in the final, and Krag is far more interesting :)

Hansen is also the favorite PM of the Danish Peoples Party, who basically wants to return Denmark to the golden age of "H. C." prior to the "68" rebellion and those pesky immigrants. A time where order prevailed, people loved their country and everything was so much better.



Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 19
Post by: big bad fab on May 24, 2012, 03:18:15 AM
Hansen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 19
Post by: Edu on May 24, 2012, 04:24:40 AM


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 19
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 24, 2012, 07:57:31 AM
Poul Schlüter


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 19
Post by: Nhoj on May 24, 2012, 10:27:20 AM
Hansen


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 20
Post by: politicus on May 24, 2012, 03:38:03 PM
Result of round 20:

Since all 5 regular voters have already voted and the result is so clear, Ill close this one early.

H. C. Hansen 4
Poul Schlüter 1

H. C. Hansen eliminated


Round 21, normal round

Poul Schlüter, on top of his game in the 80s, but had to resign in disgrace after all.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 21
Post by: Nhoj on May 24, 2012, 05:16:59 PM
Poul Schlüter


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 21
Post by: big bad fab on May 24, 2012, 05:48:44 PM
Zahle


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 21
Post by: Edu on May 25, 2012, 10:33:56 AM


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, round 21
Post by: politicus on May 25, 2012, 12:18:57 PM
Looks like Julio isn't voting today, but given his socialist values and earlier votes against Poul Schlüter, I am sure he wouldn't help our last right winger standing, so I'll close this round now.
(not that you can really call a guy that is remembered for saying "ideology is a load of rubbish" a right winger anyway... 8) )

Schlüter 3
Zahle 1

Poul Schlüter eliminated


Round 22, semifinal

My vote: Carl Theodor Zahle

The trouble with a Danish PM survivor is that you can't really avoid an all SD final without being extremely hackish. The SD guys are just better with the possible exception of Estrup (who you guys eliminated for being dictatorial..) and I. C. Christensen who was superb parliamentarian and a strong leader, but chose to rule behind the scenes for the first 4 years of his de facto time in power (1901-08) and therefore is a short termer on paper, and then had to leave office after the biggest scandal in Danish political history.

So I am stuck with the choice between two left wingers to face "Father Stauning" :(

Zahle's government solved a number of very difficult problems (avoiding being dragged into the war, having to evolve a new and extended role for the state, a major land reform in 1919 - breaking the power of the aristocracy, an important judicial reform and securing reunification with Northern Sleswick in 1920 without caving in to nationalists who wanted ALL of Sleswick). His government was highly successful until right wingers persuaded the King to dismiss it in 1920 (provoking a major constitutional "Easter Crisis" and nearly making Denmark a republic).

But the trouble is, that those gains were mainly secured by others. Zahle was PM because the two strongest men in his party - Rode and Munch - wanted to avoid an all out leadership struggle between them, not because of his own strength. So all in all a successful PM, but not a great one - and no match for Stauning in the final.

Krag had an easier time, ruling in the 60s where the SD could campaign under the slogan "Make good times better". But he was a much stronger leader than Zahle, and represents SD on the height of their power, securing the full implementation of the universal welfare state model and brilliantly moving Denmark towards the EEC step by step before securing membership in an all important referendum. He was also a much more interesting and complex character than Zahle.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, semifinal
Post by: Nhoj on May 25, 2012, 12:57:43 PM
Jens Otto Krag


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, semifinal
Post by: big bad fab on May 25, 2012, 03:49:03 PM
Zahle


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, semifinal
Post by: politicus on May 26, 2012, 02:25:22 PM
I thought about keeping this round open a little longer, but given that Julio would never vote against a Socialist Zahle was going to be eliminated anyway. So I thought we might as well go directly to the final.
Edu voted in a couple of other survivors, but not this one, so he had the chance.

Result of semifinal:

Zahle 2
Krag 1

Zahle eliminated

The Finale. Battle of the red kings: Stauning vs. Krag

Have to go with Stauning.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers. The Final: Stauning vs. Krag
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 26, 2012, 03:22:52 PM
No, politicus, I'm studying, and really hard...

But Jens Otto Krag for the win!!


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers. The Final: Stauning vs. Krag
Post by: politicus on May 26, 2012, 03:34:17 PM
No, politicus, I'm studying, and really hard...

But Jens Otto Krag for the win!!
Oh of course. Exams. Seems like a million years ago, even if it was only two :) Hope I shall never have to bother with them again. Best of luck!

But given that you prefer Krag, it looks like I was right you would have voted Zahle. 


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers, semifinal
Post by: Edu on May 26, 2012, 04:32:50 PM
Edu voted in a couple of other survivors, but not this one, so he had the chance.

Yeah, I missed it, but I would have voted against Zahle anyway :P

Eliminate Krag

Stauning for survivor!


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers. The Final: Stauning vs. Krag
Post by: big bad fab on May 27, 2012, 08:56:37 AM
Stauning FTW


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers. The Final: Stauning vs. Krag
Post by: BlueSwan on May 27, 2012, 12:38:09 PM
Both were indisputably great PM's and my personal favourites along with Nyrup, who wasn't a great PM as such, but precided over an extremely succesful cabinet. So a Stauning vs Krag final is fully justified. Both had immense influence over the society that we have built, arguably greater than anyone else. I think Krag was certainly a more brilliantly gifted man than Stauning, but Stauning is by far the most iconic danish PM. Both were being very significant social reforms.

I will say this though: Stauning was out leader during both economic hardship and war, while Krag was a leader at a time of prosperity. For that I will give my vote to Stauning for the win. A great man and leader. It's really sad that he died probably thinking that we had lost our country to the germans.


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers. The Final: Stauning vs. Krag
Post by: Nhoj on May 27, 2012, 06:54:36 PM
Stauning FTW


Title: Re: Danish prime ministers. The Final: Stauning vs. Krag
Post by: politicus on May 27, 2012, 07:00:08 PM
Result of the final:

Thorvald Stauning 5
Jens Otto Krag 1

Thorvald Stauning is the survivor!



Title: Re: Danish prime ministers. Thorvald Stauning is a survivor!
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 28, 2012, 02:53:34 PM
One of the best winners in the latter survivor games.