Talk Elections

General Politics => U.S. General Discussion => Topic started by: Oakvale on May 09, 2012, 02:13:05 PM



Title: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Oakvale on May 09, 2012, 02:13:05 PM
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/05/will-obama-finally-endorse-gay-marriage-abc-news/52110/

Quote
“It’s interesting, some of this is also generational,” the president continued. “You know when I go to college campuses, sometimes I talk to college Republicans who think that I have terrible policies on the economy, on foreign policy, but are very clear that when it comes to same sex equality or, you know, sexual orientation that they believe in equality. They are much more comfortable with it.

You know, Malia and Sasha, they have friends whose parents are same-sex couples. There have been times where Michelle and I have been sitting around the dinner table and we’re talking about their friends and their parents and Malia and Sasha, it wouldn’t dawn on them that somehow their friends’ parents would be treated differently. It doesn’t make sense to them and frankly, that’s the kind of thing that prompts a change in perspective.”

Of course, polls showed that large majorities of Americans thought Obama support gay marriage anyway, so I doubt the political impact's as major as some were expecting - either positive or negative. :)


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Joe Republic on May 09, 2012, 02:19:52 PM
That's not really an endorsement.  Just some waffling about how the younger generation has no problem with it.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Keystone Phil on May 09, 2012, 02:21:10 PM
The NEW! fully "evolved" Barack Obama!


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Oakvale on May 09, 2012, 02:21:18 PM
That's not really an endorsement.  Just some waffling about how the younger generation has no problem with it.

The full quote's in the link, but the most relevant part is "I think same-sex couples should be able to get married". :P


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Simfan34 on May 09, 2012, 02:27:45 PM
To be honest, I find it both weak and opportunist. Supporters of gay marriage should be hurt, as I am, that Obama came "a day late and a dollar short", quite literally, in the effort to advance the cause, most recently after the defeat in North Carolina. Now, he is only no longer to the right of Dick Cheney. Is this the "audacity" and "change" we were promised?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: afleitch on May 09, 2012, 02:31:28 PM
To be honest, I find it both weak and opportunist. Supporters of gay marriage should be hurt, as I am, that Obama came "a day late and a dollar short", quite literally, in the effort to advance the cause, most recently after the defeat in North Carolina. Now, he is only no longer to the right of Dick Cheney. Is this the "audacity" and "change" we were promised?

I'm fine with his decision. I understand how politically difficult it was for him and perhaps personally too. Better late than never is always fine by me. Romney however makes me feel a little sick given that he's trying to pretend he opposes it.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on May 09, 2012, 02:34:26 PM


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Simfan34 on May 09, 2012, 02:37:07 PM
To be honest, I find it both weak and opportunist. Supporters of gay marriage should be hurt, as I am, that Obama came "a day late and a dollar short", quite literally, in the effort to advance the cause, most recently after the defeat in North Carolina. Now, he is only no longer to the right of Dick Cheney. Is this the "audacity" and "change" we were promised?

I'm fine with his decision. I understand how politically difficult it was for him and perhaps personally too. Better late than never is always fine by me. Romney however makes me feel a little sick given that he's trying to pretend he opposes it.

But isn't making risky and bold decisions what leadership is all about? He should have come out two days ago.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Mechaman on May 09, 2012, 02:38:02 PM
About damn time.

Frankly, given his image, I don't see how endorsing gay marriage would've had a damn on his ratings.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Simfan34 on May 09, 2012, 02:49:21 PM
About damn time.

Frankly, given his image, I don't see how endorsing gay marriage would've had a damn on his ratings.

Exactly.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Alcon on May 09, 2012, 03:30:13 PM

I was just going to get irritated by your rote spamming, but I just checked out your recent post history, and concluded you probably don't care one way or another.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: opebo on May 09, 2012, 03:40:15 PM
Masterful.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 09, 2012, 03:42:25 PM
To be honest, I find it both weak and opportunist. Supporters of gay marriage should be hurt, as I am, that Obama came "a day late and a dollar short", quite literally, in the effort to advance the cause, most recently after the defeat in North Carolina. Now, he is only no longer to the right of Dick Cheney. Is this the "audacity" and "change" we were promised?

I'm fine with his decision. I understand how politically difficult it was for him and perhaps personally too. Better late than never is always fine by me. Romney however makes me feel a little sick given that he's trying to pretend he opposes it.
What makes you think that Obama was genuine in opposing it and Romney isn't? 


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: afleitch on May 09, 2012, 04:12:04 PM
To be honest, I find it both weak and opportunist. Supporters of gay marriage should be hurt, as I am, that Obama came "a day late and a dollar short", quite literally, in the effort to advance the cause, most recently after the defeat in North Carolina. Now, he is only no longer to the right of Dick Cheney. Is this the "audacity" and "change" we were promised?

I'm fine with his decision. I understand how politically difficult it was for him and perhaps personally too. Better late than never is always fine by me. Romney however makes me feel a little sick given that he's trying to pretend he opposes it.
What makes you think that Obama was genuine in opposing it and Romney isn't? 

I never said that. Obama has privately supported gay marriage for a long time. I have no idea what Romney thinks other than he tries to pretend he's went into reverse, alongside everything else he used to believe in.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Oakvale on May 09, 2012, 04:13:39 PM
()

Never change, FOX.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Simfan34 on May 09, 2012, 04:26:20 PM
To be honest, I find it both weak and opportunist. Supporters of gay marriage should be hurt, as I am, that Obama came "a day late and a dollar short", quite literally, in the effort to advance the cause, most recently after the defeat in North Carolina. Now, he is only no longer to the right of Dick Cheney. Is this the "audacity" and "change" we were promised?

I'm fine with his decision. I understand how politically difficult it was for him and perhaps personally too. Better late than never is always fine by me. Romney however makes me feel a little sick given that he's trying to pretend he opposes it.
What makes you think that Obama was genuine in opposing it and Romney isn't? 

I never said that. Obama has privately supported gay marriage for a long time. I have no idea what Romney thinks other than he tries to pretend he's went into reverse, alongside everything else he used to believe in.

Obama also supported gay marriage before he was against it before he was for it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/13/obama-once-supported-same_n_157656.html

Really, he's no better than Romney here.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on May 09, 2012, 04:29:19 PM
Really, he's no better than Romney here.

Except in the sense that Obama's of the opinion that all Americans deserve equal rights, and Romney believes the opposite.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Simfan34 on May 09, 2012, 04:30:15 PM
Really, he's no better than Romney here.

Except in the sense that Obama's of the opinion that all Americans deserve equal rights, and Romney believes the opposite.

I'm talking about switching positions. That's obstinacy.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Brittain33 on May 09, 2012, 04:30:44 PM
Obama handled this well.

Today, the headline is "Obama endorses gay marriage," not NC.

If he'd come out two days earlier, it would have been "Amendment 1 wins by landslide despite Obama's announcement."

I'm much happier with the first one.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on May 09, 2012, 04:37:02 PM
I'm talking about switching positions. That's obstinacy.

There is not a single politician alive who has not switched positions on something at some point. Flexibility is no vice.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: courts on May 09, 2012, 04:37:14 PM
The NEW! fully "evolved" Barack Obama!
that may have been my favorite obama moment. even better that he kept up his opposition for so long after it became known he had supported it before. i guess he devolved at some point?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 09, 2012, 04:40:54 PM
To be honest, I find it both weak and opportunist. Supporters of gay marriage should be hurt, as I am, that Obama came "a day late and a dollar short", quite literally, in the effort to advance the cause, most recently after the defeat in North Carolina. Now, he is only no longer to the right of Dick Cheney. Is this the "audacity" and "change" we were promised?

I'm fine with his decision. I understand how politically difficult it was for him and perhaps personally too. Better late than never is always fine by me. Romney however makes me feel a little sick given that he's trying to pretend he opposes it.
What makes you think that Obama was genuine in opposing it and Romney isn't? 

I never said that. Obama has privately supported gay marriage for a long time. I have no idea what Romney thinks other than he tries to pretend he's went into reverse, alongside everything else he used to believe in.
So when Romney pretends not to support it, it makes you sick, but when Obama pretended not to support it that wasn't so bad?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: afleitch on May 09, 2012, 04:44:05 PM
To be honest, I find it both weak and opportunist. Supporters of gay marriage should be hurt, as I am, that Obama came "a day late and a dollar short", quite literally, in the effort to advance the cause, most recently after the defeat in North Carolina. Now, he is only no longer to the right of Dick Cheney. Is this the "audacity" and "change" we were promised?

I'm fine with his decision. I understand how politically difficult it was for him and perhaps personally too. Better late than never is always fine by me. Romney however makes me feel a little sick given that he's trying to pretend he opposes it.
What makes you think that Obama was genuine in opposing it and Romney isn't? 

I never said that. Obama has privately supported gay marriage for a long time. I have no idea what Romney thinks other than he tries to pretend he's went into reverse, alongside everything else he used to believe in.
So when Romney pretends not to support it, it makes you sick, but when Obama pretended not to support it that wasn't so bad?

Let me draw you a diagram

America ------------------------------------------------> Gay Marriage
Obama -------------------------------------------------> Gay Marriage
Romney <------------------------------------------------ Gay Marriage


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: courts on May 09, 2012, 04:45:39 PM
you can't seriously believe that.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on May 09, 2012, 04:46:28 PM

Care to actually elaborate?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Oakvale on May 09, 2012, 04:55:55 PM

Of course he doesn't.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: All Along The Watchtower on May 09, 2012, 04:57:25 PM
Good. This is perhaps the most clear-cut, "black and white" issue to me.

It's simple: Gays should have all the rights that straights have. They don't currently.

Solution: Give them those rights legally.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: NY Jew on May 09, 2012, 05:02:07 PM
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/05/will-obama-finally-endorse-gay-marriage-abc-news/52110/

Quote
“It’s interesting, some of this is also generational,” the president continued. “You know when I go to college campuses, sometimes I talk to college Republicans who think that I have terrible policies on the economy, on foreign policy, but are very clear that when it comes to same sex equality or, you know, sexual orientation that they believe in equality. They are much more comfortable with it.

You know, Malia and Sasha, they have friends whose parents are same-sex couples. There have been times where Michelle and I have been sitting around the dinner table and we’re talking about their friends and their parents and Malia and Sasha, it wouldn’t dawn on them that somehow their friends’ parents would be treated differently. It doesn’t make sense to them and frankly, that’s the kind of thing that prompts a change in perspective.”

Of course, polls showed that large majorities of Americans thought Obama support gay marriage anyway, so I doubt the political impact's as major as some were expecting - either positive or negative. :)
how come every single time it came to a vote it lost


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: NY Jew on May 09, 2012, 05:07:05 PM
Good. This is perhaps the most clear-cut, "black and white" issue to me.

It's simple: Gays should have all the rights that straights have. They don't currently.

Solution: Give them those rights legally.
yes they do, any gay can get married to a member of the opposite sex even in North Carolina.

gays obviously went to the Joseph Goebbels school of propaganda "if you repeat a lie often enough idiots will believe you".


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: tpfkaw on May 09, 2012, 05:07:15 PM
how come every single time it came to a vote it lost

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=4&year=2006&f=0&off=50&elect=0


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Oakvale on May 09, 2012, 05:09:00 PM
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/05/will-obama-finally-endorse-gay-marriage-abc-news/52110/

Quote
“It’s interesting, some of this is also generational,” the president continued. “You know when I go to college campuses, sometimes I talk to college Republicans who think that I have terrible policies on the economy, on foreign policy, but are very clear that when it comes to same sex equality or, you know, sexual orientation that they believe in equality. They are much more comfortable with it.

You know, Malia and Sasha, they have friends whose parents are same-sex couples. There have been times where Michelle and I have been sitting around the dinner table and we’re talking about their friends and their parents and Malia and Sasha, it wouldn’t dawn on them that somehow their friends’ parents would be treated differently. It doesn’t make sense to them and frankly, that’s the kind of thing that prompts a change in perspective.”

Of course, polls showed that large majorities of Americans thought Obama support gay marriage anyway, so I doubt the political impact's as major as some were expecting - either positive or negative. :)
how come every single time it came to a vote it lost

That's not true, of course, but you knew that. :)

It's also not my point - the kind of people who turn out to vote on a gay marriage amendment are inherently going to be more conservative (and Republican) than those who turn out in a Presidential election - I doubt this is going to change many votes.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Phony Moderate on May 09, 2012, 05:09:52 PM
Good. This is perhaps the most clear-cut, "black and white" issue to me.

It's simple: Gays should have all the rights that straights have. They don't currently.

Solution: Give them those rights legally.
yes they do, any gay can get married to a member of the opposite sex even in North Carolina.

gays obviously went to the Joseph Goebbels school of propaganda "if you repeat a lie often enough idiots will believe you".

Oh shut up.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Oakvale on May 09, 2012, 05:10:54 PM
Good. This is perhaps the most clear-cut, "black and white" issue to me.

It's simple: Gays should have all the rights that straights have. They don't currently.

Solution: Give them those rights legally.
yes they do, any gay can get married to a member of the opposite sex even in North Carolina.

Best post ever!



Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Brittain33 on May 09, 2012, 05:12:33 PM
Good. This is perhaps the most clear-cut, "black and white" issue to me.

It's simple: Gays should have all the rights that straights have. They don't currently.

Solution: Give them those rights legally.
yes they do, any gay can get married to a member of the opposite sex even in North Carolina.

gays obviously went to the Joseph Goebbels school of propaganda "if you repeat a lie often enough idiots will believe you".

Oh shut up.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on May 09, 2012, 05:16:36 PM
I'm very glad he's finally said so publicly. For reasons BK stated in the thread about this on the 2012 board, I don't think this will be as damaging as some might think. I'm glad I have something to feel good about, with Obama, for a change.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on May 09, 2012, 05:26:22 PM
A referendum banning gay marriage failed in Idaho in 1994 as well, though that one was certainly much further reaching in it's anti-gay rhetoric than any of its more modern cousins.

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=16&year=1994&f=0&off=61&elect=0


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on May 09, 2012, 05:48:46 PM
Today's headlines:

President Obama endorses gay marriage in a move his advisers call "not political."

Also in the news: Rick Santorum says he is "not gay."


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: All Along The Watchtower on May 09, 2012, 05:51:05 PM
As I said in another thread...

This may be Santorum's Republican Party. It sure as hell ain't Santorum's America. And Romney is in between a rock and a hard place between moderately conservative Independents and the rabid religious right (aka much of the GOP electorate).


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Purch on May 09, 2012, 06:22:16 PM
Good. This is perhaps the most clear-cut, "black and white" issue to me.

It's simple: Gays should have all the rights that straights have. They don't currently.

Solution: Give them those rights legally.
yes they do, any gay can get married to a member of the opposite sex even in North Carolina.

gays obviously went to the Joseph Goebbels school of propaganda "if you repeat a lie often enough idiots will believe you".

Even though I'm pro gay marriage there is some truth to the statement you made. Personally I think gay rights is a struggle over the need to re-define marriage ( Which I feel the traditional man and women only thing is outdated). Personally when I think of a Civil rights issue I thinnk of an issue in which the majority of the people have a right whiles a minority is denied these rights, Think African American's not being allowed to vote whiles white Americans were. However no man in America(Well before states voted on it) black/white/Hispanic/Asian had the right to marry someone of their own sex so I don't really see how it's defined as a civil rights. If it was a civil rights issue I feel someone(The majority) would have to have the rights to marry their own sex and that majority would have to be denying a minority that same right but that's not the case.

Anyhow we're in 2012 and we need to redefine marrige, If Gay couples wanna be miserable like half the people who get married why not?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Alcon on May 09, 2012, 06:26:23 PM
Even though I'm pro gay marriage there is some truth to the statement you made. Personally I think gay rights is a struggle over the need to re-define marriage ( Which I feel the traditional man and women only thing is outdated). Personally when I think of a Civil rights issue I thinnk of an issue in which the majority of the people have a right whiles a minority is denied these rights, Think African American's not being allowed to vote whiles white Americans were. However no man in America(Well before states voted on it) black/white/Hispanic/Asian had the right to marry someone of their own sex so I don't really see how it's defined as a civil rights. If it was a civil rights issue I feel someone(The majority) would have to have the rights to marry their own sex and that majority would have to be denying a minority that same right but that's not the case.

Anyhow we're in 2012 and we need to redefine marrige, If Gay couples wanna be miserable like half the people who get married why not?

Doesn't your definition preclude interracial marriage being a civil right, too?

This seems semantic to me -- wrong is wrong, no matter the definitions of the wrong -- but just saying.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: © tweed on May 09, 2012, 06:33:00 PM
the only interesting question I can think of: was Biden's comment a 'teaser' for the already-planned real thing, or was it an off-the-cuff thing that led the Obama camp to the decision that it would be easier to just cut all the threads now rather than try to backtrack and piss off LGBT donors and orgs and etc?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Purch on May 09, 2012, 06:34:18 PM
Even though I'm pro gay marriage there is some truth to the statement you made. Personally I think gay rights is a struggle over the need to re-define marriage ( Which I feel the traditional man and women only thing is outdated). Personally when I think of a Civil rights issue I thinnk of an issue in which the majority of the people have a right whiles a minority is denied these rights, Think African American's not being allowed to vote whiles white Americans were. However no man in America(Well before states voted on it) black/white/Hispanic/Asian had the right to marry someone of their own sex so I don't really see how it's defined as a civil rights. If it was a civil rights issue I feel someone(The majority) would have to have the rights to marry their own sex and that majority would have to be denying a minority that same right but that's not the case.

Anyhow we're in 2012 and we need to redefine marrige, If Gay couples wanna be miserable like half the people who get married why not?

Doesn't your definition preclude interracial marriage being a civil right, too?

This seems semantic to me -- wrong is wrong, no matter the definitions of the wrong -- but just saying.
Yes because to my knowledge no one else in the country had the right to legally marry someone of another race. But I feel the Loving v. Virginia decision redefined marriage to mean a union between two consenting adults regardless of race.  That's kind of where I think the gay rights issue should be heading to a place where Marriage is redefined as a union between two consenting adults regardless of sex.


O no doubt it's definitly semantics but I'm strict with what I classify as Civil rights issues.. Doesn't mean it isn't less wrong to deny them their pursuit of happiness.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Alcon on May 09, 2012, 06:35:50 PM
Even though I'm pro gay marriage there is some truth to the statement you made. Personally I think gay rights is a struggle over the need to re-define marriage ( Which I feel the traditional man and women only thing is outdated). Personally when I think of a Civil rights issue I thinnk of an issue in which the majority of the people have a right whiles a minority is denied these rights, Think African American's not being allowed to vote whiles white Americans were. However no man in America(Well before states voted on it) black/white/Hispanic/Asian had the right to marry someone of their own sex so I don't really see how it's defined as a civil rights. If it was a civil rights issue I feel someone(The majority) would have to have the rights to marry their own sex and that majority would have to be denying a minority that same right but that's not the case.

Anyhow we're in 2012 and we need to redefine marrige, If Gay couples wanna be miserable like half the people who get married why not?

Doesn't your definition preclude interracial marriage being a civil right, too?

Yes because to my knowledge no one else in the country had the right to legally marry someone of another race. But I feel the Loving v. Virginia decision redefined marriage to mean a union between two consenting adults regardless of race.  That's kind of where I think the gay rights issue should be heading to a place where Marriage is redefined as a union between two consenting adults regardless of sex.

That's fair.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: dead0man on May 09, 2012, 06:57:04 PM
It's good that Obama is finally (sort of) clear on the subject.  The trip here was ridiculous though.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: NY Jew on May 09, 2012, 07:15:28 PM
how come every single time it came to a vote it lost

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=4&year=2006&f=0&off=50&elect=0
I didn't realize that marriage was also on that one besides uncivil unions.
but I guess since it passed a few years later means that more people are becoming against this perversion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Proposition_102_%282008%29


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on May 09, 2012, 07:22:54 PM
how come every single time it came to a vote it lost

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=4&year=2006&f=0&off=50&elect=0
I didn't realize that marriage was also on that one besides uncivil unions.
but I guess since it passed a few years later means that more people are becoming against this perversion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Proposition_102_%282008%29

I'd be careful with the "perversion" talk — that's starting to drift into infractable territory. And the moderator who patrols these boards is very biased when it comes to gay issues.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Holmes on May 09, 2012, 07:29:11 PM
Straights are more likely to vote against anti-gay amendments if there might be consequences for them! Who knew?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: NY Jew on May 09, 2012, 07:43:50 PM
how come every single time it came to a vote it lost

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=4&year=2006&f=0&off=50&elect=0
I didn't realize that marriage was also on that one besides uncivil unions.
but I guess since it passed a few years later means that more people are becoming against this perversion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Proposition_102_%282008%29

I'd be careful with the "perversion" talk — that's starting to drift into infractable territory. And the moderator who patrols these boards is very biased when it comes to gay issues.
so I can be called a bigot for thinking that immoral and harmful behavior should be banned and even more so not be encouraged (which is what being allowed to "marry" would do)

I guess liberals are the least tolerant people in the world.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Alcon on May 09, 2012, 09:14:02 PM
Right NY Jew...they oppose "immoral, perverted behavior" but defeated a vote to disallow the "immoral perverts" to have domestic partnership rights.  A lot of people are ambivalent about the gay marriage issue -- as a public policy matter, that's unfathomable to me, but whatever -- but your specific issue has been out of the mainstream for years.  Best of luck.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: J. J. on May 09, 2012, 09:35:41 PM
Right NY Jew...they oppose "immoral, perverted behavior" but defeated a vote to disallow the "immoral perverts" to have domestic partnership rights.  A lot of people are ambivalent about the gay marriage issue -- as a public policy matter, that's unfathomable to me, but whatever -- but your specific issue has been out of the mainstream for years.  Best of luck.

I think the latest polling was 50-48, so it's not mainstream.

It will cost Obama a few states, NC, maybe VA and OH.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Phony Moderate on May 09, 2012, 09:45:40 PM
Dick Cheney declaring his support for this was almost as significant as Obama doing so, imo.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on May 09, 2012, 10:19:52 PM
Right NY Jew...they oppose "immoral, perverted behavior" but defeated a vote to disallow the "immoral perverts" to have domestic partnership rights.  A lot of people are ambivalent about the gay marriage issue -- as a public policy matter, that's unfathomable to me, but whatever -- but your specific issue has been out of the mainstream for years.  Best of luck.

I think the latest polling was 50-48, so it's not mainstream.

It will cost Obama a few states, NC, maybe VA and OH.

Hardly extreme either...


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: LastVoter on May 09, 2012, 10:20:45 PM
Right NY Jew...they oppose "immoral, perverted behavior" but defeated a vote to disallow the "immoral perverts" to have domestic partnership rights.  A lot of people are ambivalent about the gay marriage issue -- as a public policy matter, that's unfathomable to me, but whatever -- but your specific issue has been out of the mainstream for years.  Best of luck.

I think the latest polling was 50-48, so it's not mainstream.

It will cost Obama a few states, NC, maybe VA and OH.
VA is actually safe Obama after this move. Mittens needs to raise the states and flip WI or PA now if he wants to win. Both of these are very unlikely.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Joe Republic on May 09, 2012, 10:26:49 PM
VA is actually safe Obama after this move.

How so?  Isn't Virginia still an anti-gay state?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: World politics is up Schmitt creek on May 09, 2012, 10:29:41 PM
The parts of Virginia that Obama needs to do well in to win are I think generally perceived as economically kind of squishy but socially liberal. Somebody feel free to correct me if this is a misconception on my part.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Torie on May 09, 2012, 10:32:49 PM
VA is actually safe Obama after this move.

How so?  Isn't Virginia still an anti-gay state?

Seems questionable to me too, but it a matter of counting the noses that will flip. Many blacks who loathe gays and think they should be burned at the stake, to put it hyperbolically, will vote for Obama anyway. So maybe a case could be made. It would take quite a bit of work however. And oh, conversely, I'm not a potential Obama vote this time, even if he announces he's gay himself, going the other way. So some of those Reston folks who say thanks, what took you so long, won't be changing their vote either.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: tpfkaw on May 09, 2012, 10:33:15 PM
VA is actually safe Obama after this move.

How so?  Isn't Virginia still an anti-gay state?

Uh yeah, last poll I saw was like 2-1 against.  A bunch of liberals on this site have the bizarre impression that Virginia is the new Connecticut, however.

(A state's views on gay marriage is essentially a function of the number of white liberals, which VA still lags pretty far behind on).


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on May 09, 2012, 10:38:04 PM
VA is actually safe Obama after this move.

How so?  Isn't Virginia still an anti-gay state?

Seems questionable to me too, but it a matter of counting the noses that will flip. Many blacks who loathe gays and think they should be burned at the stake, to put it hyperbolically, will vote for Obama anyway. So maybe a case could be made. It would take quite a bit of work however. And oh, conversely, I'm not a potential Obama vote this time, even if he announces he's gay himself, going the other way. So some of those Reston folks who say thanks, what took you so long, won't be changing their vote either.

The issue isn't whether or not VA is pro or anti-gay... the issue is a) whether it's enough to stop them voting for Obama (if that was their intention) b) will support be strong enough in places to counter the likely drop off in others.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Nhoj on May 09, 2012, 11:45:18 PM
https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=2006&off=50&elect=0&fips=51&f=0
This was six years ago, I guess its wording is pretty similar to NCs?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Ebowed on May 10, 2012, 01:16:29 AM
For those wondering if this was a response to a Biden gaffe or a planned event, the way Obama has handled this via social media would suggest the latter.  The endorsement is being proudly displayed on his Facebook page, and his campaign sends out the following email:

Quote
Today, I was asked a direct question and gave a direct answer:

I believe that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry.

I hope you'll take a moment to watch the conversation, consider it, and weigh in yourself on behalf of marriage equality:

http://my.barackobama.com/Marriage

I've always believed that gay and lesbian Americans should be treated fairly and equally. I was reluctant to use the term marriage because of the very powerful traditions it evokes. And I thought civil union laws that conferred legal rights upon gay and lesbian couples were a solution.

But over the course of several years I've talked to friends and family about this. I've thought about members of my staff in long-term, committed, same-sex relationships who are raising kids together. Through our efforts to end the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, I've gotten to know some of the gay and lesbian troops who are serving our country with honor and distinction.

What I've come to realize is that for loving, same-sex couples, the denial of marriage equality means that, in their eyes and the eyes of their children, they are still considered less than full citizens.

Even at my own dinner table, when I look at Sasha and Malia, who have friends whose parents are same-sex couples, I know it wouldn't dawn on them that their friends' parents should be treated differently.

So I decided it was time to affirm my personal belief that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry.

I respect the beliefs of others, and the right of religious institutions to act in accordance with their own doctrines. But I believe that in the eyes of the law, all Americans should be treated equally. And where states enact same-sex marriage, no federal act should invalidate them.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Ebowed on May 10, 2012, 01:23:14 AM
Rep. Bill Taylor's (R-SC) Twitter page suggested 'Pink smoke seen coming from White House chimney.' (via HuffPost) although the comment seems to be missing from his page now.  Otherwise, there seems to have been very little appetite for bigotry amongst the responses being offered by Republican politicians.

Anyway, it's almost certainly going to be in the Democratic platform, even Harry Reid has endorsed it now.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 10, 2012, 01:29:00 AM
VA is actually safe Obama after this move.

How so?  Isn't Virginia still an anti-gay state?

Uh yeah, last poll I saw was like 2-1 against.  A bunch of liberals on this site have the bizarre impression that Virginia is the new Connecticut, however.

(A state's views on gay marriage is essentially a function of the number of white liberals, which VA still lags pretty far behind on).
here's the referendum from 2006 that won 57%.
()
considering both that it banned civil unions, and that there has been in all likelihood a move toward greater acceptance of gay marriage since then, I'd say its probably in the range of 3:2 against among those who have an opinion on the matter (which a lot of people who vote in presidential elections probably don't).


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on May 10, 2012, 01:40:28 AM
Recent polls have had gay marriage supported by around a 50-45 margin. Obama is with the 50%.
Recent polls have had civil unions supported by around a 60-40 margin. Romney is with the 40%.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Alcon on May 10, 2012, 02:28:57 AM
Right NY Jew...they oppose "immoral, perverted behavior" but defeated a vote to disallow the "immoral perverts" to have domestic partnership rights.  A lot of people are ambivalent about the gay marriage issue -- as a public policy matter, that's unfathomable to me, but whatever -- but your specific issue has been out of the mainstream for years.  Best of luck.

I think the latest polling was 50-48, so it's not mainstream.

It will cost Obama a few states, NC, maybe VA and OH.

On domestic partnerships?  Unlikely...read my post more closely.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Lief 🗽 on May 10, 2012, 02:45:28 AM
It will cost Obama a few states, NC, maybe VA and OH.

Saving this so I can make fun of you in November.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Mr. Morden on May 10, 2012, 04:17:15 AM
For those wondering if this was a response to a Biden gaffe or a planned event, the way Obama has handled this via social media would suggest the latter.  The endorsement is being proudly displayed on his Facebook page, and his campaign sends out the following email:

All of the background info being fed to reporters indicates that Obama was planning on announcing his new position in the weeks leading up to the Democratic National Convention, but that the Biden gaffe forced them to move up the timing.....and the Obama people are now ticked off at Biden, which is why they're leaking:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76103.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76140.html

Quote
Senior administration officials admit that Biden’s comment was, indeed, the catalyst for Obama to make his historic announcement weeks earlier than planned.

But Biden’s remarks on “Meet the Press” deeply annoyed Obama’s team, people close to the situation tell POLITICO, because it aggrandized his role at the expense of Obama’s yeoman efforts on behalf of the community and pushed up the timing of a sensitive announcement they had hoped to break — at a time and place of their own choosing — in the weeks leading up to the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte this fall.

Nor did it tickle anyone, from Obama on down, that Biden — who backed the Defense of Marriage Act while serving in the Senate in the 1990s — seemed to be getting more credit in the LGBT community than a president who has actually taken steps to repeal the Clinton-era law that defined marriage as something that could only take place between a man and a woman.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Grumpier Than Thou on May 10, 2012, 08:54:15 AM
https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?year=2006&off=50&elect=0&fips=51&f=0
This was six years ago, I guess its wording is pretty similar to NCs?

Jesus.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: All Along The Watchtower on May 10, 2012, 10:31:06 AM
()


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on May 10, 2012, 02:19:55 PM
For those wondering if this was a response to a Biden gaffe or a planned event, the way Obama has handled this via social media would suggest the latter.  The endorsement is being proudly displayed on his Facebook page, and his campaign sends out the following email:

Obama's messy, disasterous pressers between the Biden gaffe and the eventual announcement of support for gay marriage suggest anything but a planned event. He looked like a f***ing fool.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: RIP Robert H Bork on May 10, 2012, 03:41:51 PM

About how it's disgusting or about how it's to be expected?

I don't think I need to elaborate on how it was to be expected; I'm sure everyone on this forum knew it was coming. As far as the former, I think you know that as well (why I think it's disgusting).


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Alcon on May 10, 2012, 03:43:56 PM

About how it's disgusting or about how it's to be expected?

I don't think I need to elaborate on how it was to be expected; I'm sure everyone on this forum knew it was coming. As far as the former, I think you know that as well (why I think it's disgusting).

But we would like to engage you in an exchange on it where you write more than three sentences, so go ahead and elaborate!


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Zioneer on May 10, 2012, 10:55:18 PM
As a Mormon who's fine with gay marriage, I find it amazing that Harry Reid found the courage to say he's okay with it. I mean, Obama saying it first helped, but still very risky of Reid to say it.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Beet on May 10, 2012, 11:15:07 PM
Amusing; at least three Democrats (Biden, Cuomo, O'Malley) have now placed the gay marriage issue into their arsenal which they intend to use to jockey for 2016. Kirsten Gillibrand also used it as a career-booster, and has been mentioned as a possible 2016 contender as well, although less than the other two New Yorkers. I guess this must be low-hanging fruit for Dems who aren't in red states.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: LastVoter on May 10, 2012, 11:21:17 PM
Amusing; at least three Democrats (Biden, Cuomo, O'Malley) have now placed the gay marriage issue into their arsenal which they intend to use to jockey for 2016. Kirsten Gillibrand also used it as a career-booster, and has been mentioned as a possible 2016 contender as well, although less than the other two New Yorkers. I guess this must be low-hanging fruit for Dems who aren't in red states.
In before Schweitzer endorses gay marriage?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on May 10, 2012, 11:21:24 PM
Amusing; at least three Democrats (Biden, Cuomo, O'Malley) have now placed the gay marriage issue into their arsenal which they intend to use to jockey for 2016. Kirsten Gillibrand also used it as a career-booster, and has been mentioned as a possible 2016 contender as well, although less than the other two New Yorkers. I guess this must be low-hanging fruit for Dems who aren't in red states.

I don't see how the 2016 nominee wouldn't support gay marriage. Hillary or Schweitzer or other 2016 possibilities would presumably come out in support before they run (if they run). It should be easy for Hillary, her husband already supports it.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Beet on May 10, 2012, 11:29:30 PM
Amusing; at least three Democrats (Biden, Cuomo, O'Malley) have now placed the gay marriage issue into their arsenal which they intend to use to jockey for 2016. Kirsten Gillibrand also used it as a career-booster, and has been mentioned as a possible 2016 contender as well, although less than the other two New Yorkers. I guess this must be low-hanging fruit for Dems who aren't in red states.

I don't see how the 2016 nominee wouldn't support gay marriage. Hillary or Schweitzer or other 2016 possibilities would presumably come out in support before they run (if they run). It should be easy for Hillary, her husband already supports it.

That's true. As more and more come around to this and find ways to "be a leader" on the issue, the marginal benefit in the primary drops accordingly, and in the end I think it'll be a lot less important than the potential candidates may think. But right now it's a relatively simple, high profile issue that motivates social liberals.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Pingvin on May 11, 2012, 01:13:06 AM
Barry now tries to avoid ANY economy discussion so he had use everything for his campaign: from gay marriage and free condoms to Romney dog.
Also, there is one more reason for this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-gay-marriage-announcement-followed-by-flood-of-campaign-donations/2012/05/10/gIQA2ntCGU_story.html).


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Joe Republic on May 11, 2012, 02:31:10 AM

An unwed teen mom joins in in bashing Obama's position:

Quote from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/bristol-palin-gay-marriage-_n_1506286.html
Bristol writes in a Facebook post that fathers should shape their kids' views, not the other way around:

Quote
While it’s great to listen to your kids’ ideas, there’s also a time when dads simply need to be dads. In this case, it would’ve been helpful for him to explain to Malia and Sasha that while her friends parents are no doubt lovely people, that’s not a reason to change thousands of years of thinking about marriage. Or that – as great as her friends may be – we know that in general kids do better growing up in a mother/father home. Ideally, fathers help shape their kids’ worldview.

Bristol has a son with her ex-boyfriend Levi Johnston, but the two were never married and Bristol says that Levi is not part of the child's life.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Fuzzybigfoot on May 11, 2012, 03:33:51 AM
lol silly hypocrites.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Mr. Morden on May 11, 2012, 03:58:28 AM

An unwed teen mom joins in in bashing Obama's position:

Quote from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/bristol-palin-gay-marriage-_n_1506286.html
Bristol writes in a Facebook post that fathers should shape their kids' views, not the other way around:

Quote
While it’s great to listen to your kids’ ideas, there’s also a time when dads simply need to be dads. In this case, it would’ve been helpful for him to explain to Malia and Sasha that while her friends parents are no doubt lovely people, that’s not a reason to change thousands of years of thinking about marriage. Or that – as great as her friends may be – we know that in general kids do better growing up in a mother/father home. Ideally, fathers help shape their kids’ worldview.

Bristol has a son with her ex-boyfriend Levi Johnston, but the two were never married and Bristol says that Levi is not part of the child's life.

But what is Levi's position on this?  I don't know what to think until we get his take.  Why won't the media cover him anymore?


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on May 11, 2012, 02:06:10 PM

An unwed teen mom joins in in bashing Obama's position:

Quote from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/bristol-palin-gay-marriage-_n_1506286.html
Bristol writes in a Facebook post that fathers should shape their kids' views, not the other way around:

Quote
While it’s great to listen to your kids’ ideas, there’s also a time when dads simply need to be dads. In this case, it would’ve been helpful for him to explain to Malia and Sasha that while her friends parents are no doubt lovely people, that’s not a reason to change thousands of years of thinking about marriage. Or that – as great as her friends may be – we know that in general kids do better growing up in a mother/father home. Ideally, fathers help shape their kids’ worldview.

Bristol has a son with her ex-boyfriend Levi Johnston, but the two were never married and Bristol says that Levi is not part of the child's life.

But what is Levi's position on this?  I don't know what to think until we get his take.  Why won't the media cover him anymore?


A better question is why does the media still cover Bristol.


Title: Re: Obama endorses gay marriage.
Post by: Joe Republic on May 11, 2012, 02:08:27 PM
A better question is why does the media still cover Bristol.

It's the HuffPo, to be fair.