Talk Elections

General Politics => U.S. General Discussion => Topic started by: Lief 🗽 on May 31, 2012, 12:47:52 AM



Title: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Lief 🗽 on May 31, 2012, 12:47:52 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/31/nyregion/bloomberg-plans-a-ban-on-large-sugared-drinks.html

Quote
New York City plans to enact a far-reaching ban on the sale of large sodas and other sugary drinks at restaurants, movie theaters and street carts, in the most ambitious effort yet by the Bloomberg administration to combat rising obesity.

The proposed ban would affect virtually the entire menu of popular sugary drinks found in delis, fast-food franchises and even sports arenas, from energy drinks to pre-sweetened iced teas. The sale of any cup or bottle of sweetened drink larger than 16 fluid ounces — about the size of a medium coffee, and smaller than a common soda bottle — would be prohibited under the first-in-the-nation plan, which could take effect as soon as next March.

The measure would not apply to diet sodas, fruit juices, dairy-based drinks like milkshakes, or alcoholic beverages; it would not extend to beverages sold in grocery or convenience stores.

“Obesity is a nationwide problem, and all over the United States, public health officials are wringing their hands saying, ‘Oh, this is terrible,’ ” Mr. Bloomberg said in an interview on Wednesday in the Governor’s Room at City Hall.

“New York City is not about wringing your hands; it’s about doing something,” he said. “I think that’s what the public wants the mayor to do.”

A spokesman for the New York City Beverage Association, an arm of the soda industry’s national trade group, criticized the city’s proposal on Wednesday. The industry has clashed repeatedly with the city’s health department, saying it has unfairly singled out soda; industry groups have bought subway advertisements promoting their cause.

“The New York City health department’s unhealthy obsession with attacking soft drinks is again pushing them over the top,” the industry spokesman, Stefan Friedman, said. “It’s time for serious health professionals to move on and seek solutions that are going to actually curb obesity. These zealous proposals just distract from the hard work that needs to be done on this front.”

Mr. Bloomberg’s proposal requires the approval of the Board of Health, a step that is considered likely because the members are all appointed by him, and the board’s chairman is the city’s health commissioner, who joined the mayor in supporting the measure on Wednesday.

Mr. Bloomberg has made public health one of the top priorities of his lengthy tenure, and has championed a series of aggressive regulations, including bans on smoking in restaurants and parks, a prohibition against artificial trans fat in restaurant food and a requirement for health inspection grades to be posted in restaurant windows.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: courts on May 31, 2012, 12:57:30 AM
considering how much sugar 'adults' put in their coffee in this country and how much sugar in juice there typically is, this is pretty arbitrary...


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: NY Jew on May 31, 2012, 01:03:36 AM
it's not just libertarians
every person I speak to in NY (and not just Orthodox Jews) democrat or republican hates Bloomberg.

one thing that seems to unite most NYers is that Bloomberg pisses them off.

my favorite one of Bloomberg's idiocies (just for the record what's mentioned here is the least of the Richter's kindnesses)

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/no_kugel_for_you_N4VuTrqavfOiApSHngxuMJ


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Ebowed on May 31, 2012, 01:07:37 AM
'The New York City health department’s unhealthy obsession with attacking soft drinks' is the number one cause of obesity!!


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: courts on May 31, 2012, 01:12:43 AM
it's not just libertarians
every person I speak to in NY (and not just Orthodox Jews) democrat or republican hates Bloomberg.

one thing that seems to unite most NYers is that Bloomberg pisses them off.

my favorite one of Bloomberg's idiocies (just for the record what's mentioned here is the least of the Richter's kindnesses)

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/no_kugel_for_you_N4VuTrqavfOiApSHngxuMJ
5 people isn't exactly a representative sample


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on May 31, 2012, 01:28:00 AM
considering how much sugar 'adults' put in their coffee in this country and how much sugar in juice there typically is, this is pretty arbitrary...

Not to mention most restaurants give you free refills anyway. I actually did at least somewhat agree with Bloomberg's other health proposals but this is really stupid.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Franzl on May 31, 2012, 04:29:37 AM
I don't really drink soda that contains sugar (There are more enjoyable things to drink...if you're going to do something unhealthy ;)) That said, I always take small drinks in the US precisely because they give free refills. So this seems rather pointless, yes.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Donerail on May 31, 2012, 06:07:56 AM
Bloomberg's campaign appears to be working; I am indeed pissed off by this..


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: hopper on May 31, 2012, 10:28:41 AM
I actually like Bloomberg except for this lone issue. Will he stop his war on sugary drinks already? Now maybe next year I will avoid the New York International Auto Show or just try to sneak my own soda through. Maybe I will just grab something at the Train Station in Jersey. I am one of those people that can't drink water with my 3 meals a day.

People don't get fat off of sugary drinks anyway. They get fat because they eat too much food.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on May 31, 2012, 10:38:25 AM
considering how much sugar 'adults' put in their coffee in this country and how much sugar in juice there typically is, this is pretty arbitrary...

Not to mention most restaurants give you free refills anyway. I actually did at least somewhat agree with Bloomberg's other health proposals but this is really stupid.

But you have to either get off your fat ass to get the refill or ask the server and then wait for it, so the free refill argument isn't as strong as you might think at first glance.  I'm sorta meh on this except for one point.  16 ounces!?!  A lot of the soft drink industry has been going to half-liter bottles for personal consumption, and that's 16.94 oz so it would be just over a 16 oz limit.  If he is gonna do this, a half-liter limit would be far more sensible and help with metrifying the US.  (I also thought that back in the days of the 55 mph national speed limit, that it should have been raised for states willing to mark speed limits in km/h as 100 km/h as a spur to metrification.)


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Linus Van Pelt on May 31, 2012, 12:09:57 PM
Most restaurants in NYC do not offer free refills.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Free Palestine on May 31, 2012, 12:21:41 PM
Boo hiss.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Simfan34 on May 31, 2012, 02:19:06 PM
I have always liked Bloomberg, even more than Giuliani. Who can replace him?


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: The world will shine with light in our nightmare on May 31, 2012, 02:21:13 PM
Wasn't New York once rated as the least free state in the nation, or something to that effect?  Because, now we know what that's coming from.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Negusa Nagast 🚀 on May 31, 2012, 02:26:36 PM
The proposal is dumb but the idea behind it is noble. Obesity is a nation-wide issue and spurs higher medical costs and lower productivity, among other things.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: tpfkaw on May 31, 2012, 02:28:53 PM
Wasn't New York once rated as the least free state in the nation, or something to that effect?  Because, now we know what that's coming from.

Yup, and by a substantial margin too: http://mercatus.org/sites/all/modules/custom/mercatus_50_states/files/Freedom50States2011.pdf


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Dereich on May 31, 2012, 02:33:23 PM
I'm happy to see the forum is more or less in agreement about something. If a democrat had been mayor would they have done the same thing?


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Beet on May 31, 2012, 03:19:38 PM
"“While obesity is a serious public health issue, it is puzzling that the Mayor seems more concerned with the possible long term effects of sugary drinks than the potential instantaneous results of a bicycle crash, such as a traumatic brain injury,” Mr. Liu said.  ”As thousands who are unfamiliar with the City’s terrain are set to hit the streets this summer through the bike share program, the Mayor should reconsider his opposition to the City Council’s helmet legislation.”

Christine Quinn, the City Council speaker and a mayoral ally, pointed out that the key to getting people to eat healthier is to give them healthier options, and said during an avail today that she was concerned about the ban being excessively punitive.

Fighting the obesity epidemic comes down to personal decisions and that’s why knowledge about nutrition is important because with it, people can make healthier choices. Another important factor is access to healthier foods. We’ve seen that if better choices are available, people will often take advantage of them. That’s why we’ve expanded Green Markets and the EBT program. However, limiting people’s choices is not about knowledge, empowerment or access. It seems punitive and I worry that in the end, this proposal won’t yield a positive result. Because after all, the person who doesn’t understand why it’s not healthy to drink 18oz of sugared soda, is simply going to get two 10oz cans or extra refills.

A spokesman in Manhattan borough president Scott Stringer’s office said that he hadn’t yet received a briefing on the plan from the mayor’s office and is still evaluating it.

We have reached out to the other contenders, including former City Comptroller Bill Thompson and public advocate Bill de Blasio, and will update with their responses when we receive them."

http://politicker.com/2012/05/2013ers-skeptical-of-bloomberg-soda-ban/


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Beet on May 31, 2012, 03:20:41 PM
Wasn't New York once rated as the least free state in the nation, or something to that effect?  Because, now we know what that's coming from.

Yup, and by a substantial margin too: http://mercatus.org/sites/all/modules/custom/mercatus_50_states/files/Freedom50States2011.pdf

Maryland is dead last in personal freedom? Fuc-k. :(


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Lief 🗽 on May 31, 2012, 03:44:44 PM
That one's ability to easily become obese through junk food consumption is seen to, at least partially, define how "free" one is is pretty emblematic of what's wrong with libertarianism in my opinion.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: The world will shine with light in our nightmare on May 31, 2012, 04:04:07 PM
That one's ability to easily become obese through junk food consumption is seen to, at least partially, define how "free" one is is pretty emblematic of what's wrong with libertarianism in my opinion.

Obesity can easily be fought by promoting healthier foods and voluntary means of eating wisely.  Even a tax increase is more acceptable than this, in my opinion.  We ban enough substances in this country and adding one more to the list won't make life better for people, whether it's healthy for them or not.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Beet on May 31, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
I think Bloomberg is only doing this so he can call himself Lee Kuan Yew on the Hudson.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Simfan34 on May 31, 2012, 06:57:45 PM
I think Bloomberg is only doing this so he can call himself Lee Kuan Yew on the Hudson.

OH GOD... YES! Singapore has my favorite government in the world, if NYC became more like Singapore, that would be... indescribably amazing. Yes! Yes! Yes!

That one's ability to easily become obese through junk food consumption is seen to, at least partially, define how "free" one is is pretty emblematic of what's wrong with libertarianism in my opinion.

Bingo.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on May 31, 2012, 09:08:20 PM
That one's ability to easily become obese through junk food consumption is seen to, at least partially, define how "free" one is is pretty emblematic of what's wrong with libertarianism in my opinion.

     It's about the principle of not letting the government tell us what we can & cannot do with our own bodies. I could easily make the same point about destroying your brain with meth, but I still consider it important to fight the proscription of meth every step of the way.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: GLPman on May 31, 2012, 09:12:04 PM
Honestly, if people want to be fat by consuming obnoxious amounts of sugar, then just let them. It's their problem.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Frodo on May 31, 2012, 09:13:36 PM
Honestly, if people want to be fat by consuming obnoxious amounts of sugar, then just let them. It's their problem.

It would be, if the rest of us didn't have to pay for their diabetes treatments through higher premiums.  :P


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: GLPman on May 31, 2012, 09:19:30 PM
Honestly, if people want to be fat by consuming obnoxious amounts of sugar, then just let them. It's their problem.

It would be, if the rest of us didn't have to pay for their diabetes treatments through higher premiums.  :P

Oh I'm aware, haha. Why stop at soft-drinks, though? If Bloomberg is really out to rid the city of excessively unhealthy products, why not go after those triple baconaters? Obesity is no doubt a huge issue across the nation, but this is absurd.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Beet on June 01, 2012, 12:38:30 AM
Honestly, if people want to be fat by consuming obnoxious amounts of sugar, then just let them. It's their problem.

It would be, if the rest of us didn't have to pay for their diabetes treatments through higher premiums.  :P

That's a negative externality and it could be resolved by a tax, not a ban.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on June 01, 2012, 12:55:58 AM
I think Bloomberg is only doing this so he can call himself Lee Kuan Yew on the Hudson.

OH GOD... YES! Singapore has my favorite government in the world, if NYC became more like Singapore, that would be... indescribably amazing. Yes! Yes! Yes!

Have you ever been to Singapore?


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: dead0man on June 01, 2012, 12:56:51 AM
Honestly, if people want to be fat by consuming obnoxious amounts of sugar, then just let them. It's their problem.

It would be, if the rest of us didn't have to pay for their diabetes treatments through higher premiums.  :P
You do know that this logic train leads to a very bad place right?


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Lief 🗽 on June 01, 2012, 01:01:38 AM
Honestly, if people want to be fat by consuming obnoxious amounts of sugar, then just let them. It's their problem.

It would be, if the rest of us didn't have to pay for their diabetes treatments through higher premiums.  :P
You do know that this logic train leads to a very bad place right?

No one's saying we having to the take the train all the way to Fascist Station. We can get off before it gets all the way there.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: dead0man on June 01, 2012, 01:16:55 AM
Well this (and dozens of other examples) shows we're already on the edge of the suburbs, can't we just stop it now, get off and see how we like this neighborhood?


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: NY Jew on June 01, 2012, 07:42:53 AM
I'm happy to see the forum is more or less in agreement about something. If a democrat had been mayor would they have done the same thing?
Bloomberg is a democrat (or at least he was before he only became a Republican to avoid a primary and then left the party)


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: Mechaman on June 01, 2012, 08:23:52 AM
Well, no surprise this is patently absurd.

I mean really, I don't get how somebody could defend Mayor Michael Bloomberg.  He seems to be hell bent on competing for the title "most anti-freedom" mayor in America.  Though I don't know how anyone else could really compete with this man.

It's funny how hacks like Lief defend Bloomberg, who is objectively horrible by the measure of most sane people on this board, as one who is merely fighting "libertarians".  Well, this is a very cute fantasy that ignores that Bloomberg has gone far beyond pissing off libertarians.  He's pretty much pissing off rational people at this time, and by rational I mean people who don't post articles to defend their extreme strawman view of an ideology they do not like.

Sure, I do not like tyrannic laws telling people what to do and what not to do, but a tax on the consumption of sodas per ounce might've been way more effective than an outright ban of sodas larger than 16 oz.  I mean really.
What's next King Michael?  Going to bring back Prohibition because of drunk driving accidents and domestic abuse?  Going to ban all kitchen knives to prevent home cooking accidents?  Going to ban cars because people get in car wrecks and car wrecks drive up health insurance premiums?  Going to ban school buses because kids need their exercise?

This crusade isn't heroic, it's retarded.


Title: Re: Bloomberg continues heroic crusade to piss off as many libertarians as possible
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on June 01, 2012, 09:53:16 AM
Sure, I do not like tyrannic laws telling people what to do and what not to do, but a tax on the consumption of sodas per ounce might've been way more effective than an outright ban of sodas larger than 16 oz.  I mean really.

NYC does not have the authority to impose such a tax on its own, and Bloomberg tried to get the State government to impose one, but failed to persuade them.