Talk Elections

General Politics => Economics => Topic started by: Frodo on July 07, 2012, 10:22:50 PM



Title: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Frodo on July 07, 2012, 10:22:50 PM
As far as the United States is concerned, what would be your preferred top individual income tax rate? 


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on July 07, 2012, 10:35:11 PM
It seems wrong for the government to take the majority of wealth of any man under taxes. So I put 40.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on July 07, 2012, 10:39:53 PM
70% seems fair. The top rate was greater than or equal to that from 1936-1980.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on July 07, 2012, 11:46:02 PM
I feel like I've seen this question asked a million times, but 60-70%. The issue for me is not the rates themselves, necessarily, but the amount of brackets and how progressive the overall income tax system is. Right now, it's not very.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on July 07, 2012, 11:58:50 PM
30%. If you reduce tax expenditures, this could bring in more revenue than currently even though the rate is lower.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: fezzyfestoon on July 08, 2012, 12:23:43 AM
30%. If you reduce tax expenditures, this could bring in more revenue than currently even though the rate is lower.

That has never and will never happen. It's just an untruth at this point. A novel concept that has been proven time and again to be inaccurate.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on July 08, 2012, 12:28:18 AM
30%. If you reduce tax expenditures, this could bring in more revenue than currently even though the rate is lower.

That has never and will never happen. It's just an untruth at this point. A novel concept that has been proven time and again to be inaccurate.
How so? The Simpson-Bowles Commission suggested an even lower rate. There are plenty of generous deductions and credits out there that go to high income earners. There's just not the political will to reform them.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on July 08, 2012, 12:32:05 AM
30%. If you reduce tax expenditures, this could bring in more revenue than currently even though the rate is lower.

That has never and will never happen. It's just an untruth at this point. A novel concept that has been proven time and again to be inaccurate.
How so? The Simpson-Bowles Commission suggested an even lower rate. There are plenty of generous deductions and credits out there that go to high income earners. There's just not the political will to reform them.

Well, obviously there are plenty of deductions that need to be gotten rid of. Romney can deduct mortgage interest, but someone making $75k can't deduct student loan interest? Ridiculous.

Anyways, obviously taxing capital gains the same as earned income would raise a ton of taxes.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: fezzyfestoon on July 08, 2012, 12:34:27 AM
30%. If you reduce tax expenditures, this could bring in more revenue than currently even though the rate is lower.
That has never and will never happen. It's just an untruth at this point. A novel concept that has been proven time and again to be inaccurate.
I dunno. The Simpson-Bowles Commission suggested an even lower rate. There are plenty of generous deductions and credits out there that go to high income earners. There's just not the political will to reform them.

No, no, nevermind. I was thinking of something else.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on July 08, 2012, 06:05:19 PM
30%. If you reduce tax expenditures, this could bring in more revenue than currently even though the rate is lower.
That has never and will never happen. It's just an untruth at this point. A novel concept that has been proven time and again to be inaccurate.
I dunno. The Simpson-Bowles Commission suggested an even lower rate. There are plenty of generous deductions and credits out there that go to high income earners. There's just not the political will to reform them.

No, no, nevermind. I was thinking of something else.
Yeah, I can see how my terminology could be misunderstood.  Lowering the top individual income tax rate by itself from where it is now isn't going to increase revenue (though a case might be made for the corporate rate, but even that is far from certain).


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: bullmoose88 on July 08, 2012, 08:44:04 PM
It seems wrong for the government to take the majority of wealth of any man under taxes. So I put 40.

Just because the top marginal rate could be >50% doesn't necessarily mean the income tax robs one of the majority of his wealth.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on July 08, 2012, 09:11:52 PM
It seems wrong for the government to take the majority of wealth of any man under taxes. So I put 40.

Just because the top marginal rate could be >50% doesn't necessarily mean the income tax robs one of the majority of his wealth.

Well a majority of yearly income. :P


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: bullmoose88 on July 08, 2012, 10:49:48 PM
It seems wrong for the government to take the majority of wealth of any man under taxes. So I put 40.

Just because the top marginal rate could be >50% doesn't necessarily mean the income tax robs one of the majority of his wealth.

Well a majority of yearly income. :P

Or the majority of his/her income.  It can, but we'd have to know more about that person's yearly income and the actual tax rates etc.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Gustaf on July 09, 2012, 01:59:59 AM
I think there is a general consensus that tax rates above 50% don't really generate any revenue. I guess that if one really loves redistribution it can still make sense to support it though.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: opebo on July 09, 2012, 07:16:24 AM
I think there is a general consensus that tax rates above 50% don't really generate any revenue. I guess that if one really loves redistribution it can still make sense to support it though.

Precisely!  Which is why my top rate would be, in a sense, 100%. (http://www.hark.com/clips/czcjcvfwld-its-a-hell-of-a-thing-killin-a-man-ya-take-away-all-hes-got-and-all-hes-ever-gonna-have)


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: t_host1 on July 09, 2012, 08:14:30 AM
25 and 10, everyone pays the same amount on their accrued adjusted income.

()


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 09, 2012, 09:42:01 AM
How much does the highest salaried person make? Whatever % would leave that person with 200k/year sounds good. No one needs more than that amount.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Torie on July 09, 2012, 02:48:42 PM
How much does the highest salaried person make? Whatever % would leave that person with 200k/year sounds good. No one needs more than that amount.

So you want a marginal tax rate of 100% for income in excess of 200K per year?


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: muon2 on July 09, 2012, 03:23:51 PM
How much does the highest salaried person make? Whatever % would leave that person with 200k/year sounds good. No one needs more than that amount.

So you want a marginal tax rate of 100% for income in excess of 200K per year?

Sounds like the Occupy plan. A hard cap on income from all sources is needed mathematically to achieve the wealth disparity reduction they espouse.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Redalgo on July 09, 2012, 03:48:14 PM
50% would be my preferred individual top income tax rate, if all else was just as I want it to be. In a country like the United States I would be willing to go higher only for redistributive purposes.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Torie on July 09, 2012, 04:38:12 PM
How much does the highest salaried person make? Whatever % would leave that person with 200k/year sounds good. No one needs more than that amount.

So you want a marginal tax rate of 100% for income in excess of 200K per year?

Sounds like the Occupy plan. A hard cap on income from all sources is needed mathematically to achieve the wealth disparity reduction they espouse.

It would be a great way to turbocharge the barter system. :P

On a side note, when Ingmar Bergman realized that his marginal tax rate in Sweden was 101%, he emigrated. :)


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 09, 2012, 08:53:12 PM
How much does the highest salaried person make? Whatever % would leave that person with 200k/year sounds good. No one needs more than that amount.

So you want a marginal tax rate of 100% for income in excess of 200K per year?

I guess that's one way of looking at it. But, I would only say approaching 100%, but never at. :D


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: morgieb on July 10, 2012, 03:23:09 AM
50%, though in the States it should be a little higher to solve budgetary problems.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Gustaf on July 10, 2012, 03:33:07 AM
How much does the highest salaried person make? Whatever % would leave that person with 200k/year sounds good. No one needs more than that amount.

So you want a marginal tax rate of 100% for income in excess of 200K per year?

Sounds like the Occupy plan. A hard cap on income from all sources is needed mathematically to achieve the wealth disparity reduction they espouse.

It would be a great way to turbocharge the barter system. :P

On a side note, when Ingmar Bergman realized that his marginal tax rate in Sweden was 101%, he emigrated. :)

He was actually arrested by the police in the middle of a rehearsal at the theatre. Then he left the country in protest. Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking and other children stories, wrote a story about the 100%+ tax rates she was paying, which is often credited with contributing to the centre-right finally winning in 1976.

I don't fully understand why people think equality is so important that it is preferable to make everyone poorer just to achieve it.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: So rightwing that I broke the Political Compass! on July 10, 2012, 05:51:55 AM
Firstly I want to know the situation re tax credits.

Secondly I want to know the situation re taxes other then income taxes.

Assuming both are identical to the present situation in America... probably no lower then 40%, maybe 50%. At the same time I'd be increasing the tax rates on the middle class... because mathematically speaking you can't levy enough money through income taxes on the top few percent to make a dent in the deficit... the middle class is where most of the income is.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Napoleon on July 10, 2012, 12:13:50 PM
It should not exceed 50%, but the brackets should be structured in a way to make taxation progressive and fair.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: © tweed on July 10, 2012, 12:21:53 PM
How much does the highest salaried person make? Whatever % would leave that person with 200k/year sounds good. No one needs more than that amount.

So you want a marginal tax rate of 100% for income in excess of 200K per year?

Sounds like the Occupy plan. A hard cap on income from all sources is needed mathematically to achieve the wealth disparity reduction they espouse.

or a confiscation.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: opebo on July 10, 2012, 12:45:05 PM
It would be a great way to turbocharge the barter system. :P

On a side note, when Ingmar Bergman realized that his marginal tax rate in Sweden was 101%, he emigrated. :)

With the kind of 100% tax I envision, they wouldn't be able to barter or emigrate afterwards.  Or do any further crimes of any kind, if you see what I mean.



Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Franzl on July 10, 2012, 12:52:40 PM
It would be a great way to turbocharge the barter system. :P

On a side note, when Ingmar Bergman realized that his marginal tax rate in Sweden was 101%, he emigrated. :)

With the kind of 100% tax I envision, they wouldn't be able to barter or emigrate afterwards.  Or do any further crimes of any kind, if you see what I mean.



I see you've learned to avoid death points? :)


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: cavalcade on July 10, 2012, 07:50:37 PM
Federal 40%, and let the states sort it out from there.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: TeePee4Prez on July 10, 2012, 09:35:42 PM
Federal 42%.  No caps on SSI/Medicare.  Exempt Self-Employment taxes up to $20,000 to encourage hiring.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on July 11, 2012, 08:00:56 AM
How much does the highest salaried person make? Whatever % would leave that person with 200k/year sounds good. No one needs more than that amount.

So you want a marginal tax rate of 100% for income in excess of 200K per year?

Sounds like the Occupy plan. A hard cap on income from all sources is needed mathematically to achieve the wealth disparity reduction they espouse.

It would be a great way to turbocharge the barter system. :P

On a side note, when Ingmar Bergman realized that his marginal tax rate in Sweden was 101%, he emigrated. :)

He was actually arrested by the police in the middle of a rehearsal at the theatre. Then he left the country in protest. Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking and other children stories, wrote a story about the 100%+ tax rates she was paying, which is often credited with contributing to the centre-right finally winning in 1976.

I don't fully understand why people think equality is so important that it is preferable to make everyone poorer just to achieve it.

Everyone wouldn't get poorer, just the rich. And I don't see the problem there.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: TNF on July 11, 2012, 08:45:38 AM
49% on all income over $1,000,000,000.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Franzl on July 11, 2012, 12:07:46 PM
49% on all income over $1,000,000,000.

How many people do you think would be affected by this?


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Green State on July 11, 2012, 03:02:21 PM
90%

The rich only get their  money through manipulating it and using the middle & poor classes!


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: opebo on July 12, 2012, 11:50:39 AM
90%

The rich only get their  money through manipulating it and using the middle & poor classes!

Good man!  Welcome to the forum - love the signature.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Miles on July 12, 2012, 04:10:15 PM
70% seems fair to me.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: The world will shine with light in our nightmare on July 12, 2012, 07:07:55 PM
About 43% or so.

90%

The rich only get their  money through manipulating it and using the middle & poor classes!

I don't entirely disagree, but I think it's safe to say: troll confirmed.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: LastVoter on July 12, 2012, 11:12:54 PM
about 80  or so


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Gustaf on July 13, 2012, 03:45:50 AM
How much does the highest salaried person make? Whatever % would leave that person with 200k/year sounds good. No one needs more than that amount.

So you want a marginal tax rate of 100% for income in excess of 200K per year?

Sounds like the Occupy plan. A hard cap on income from all sources is needed mathematically to achieve the wealth disparity reduction they espouse.

It would be a great way to turbocharge the barter system. :P

On a side note, when Ingmar Bergman realized that his marginal tax rate in Sweden was 101%, he emigrated. :)

He was actually arrested by the police in the middle of a rehearsal at the theatre. Then he left the country in protest. Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking and other children stories, wrote a story about the 100%+ tax rates she was paying, which is often credited with contributing to the centre-right finally winning in 1976.

I don't fully understand why people think equality is so important that it is preferable to make everyone poorer just to achieve it.

Everyone wouldn't get poorer, just the rich. And I don't see the problem there.

Lol. You would reduce overall economic growth, thus making everyone poorer. As I pointed out rates above 50% are generally revenue-reducing, meaning that their negative effect on GDP are fairly substantial.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee on July 13, 2012, 06:25:49 AM
About 50% or so but you would have to consider the whole tax code and I would envision significant changes to it at all levels.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: phk on July 13, 2012, 02:31:41 PM
Depends on how things are going.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: RI on July 14, 2012, 12:15:34 AM
Like most economic issues, I try not to weigh in unless I have seen empirics/regressions/econometrics and understand the theory behind it. I am not yet to this point on taxes. What I can say is that basing tax rates on personal whimsies or some misplaced moral sentiment is both short-sighted and destined for many unintended consequences. I neither believe inherently in soaking the rich nor defeating some tyrannically vampiric government, though I believe that the income tax is an important and necessary tool at the government's disposal. There are many variables to consider, from the width of the brackets to their height to their multiplicity (though I intuitively prefer an upward-sloping continuous function rather than a piece-wise one for a number of reasons), not to mention various different institutions levying said taxes.

If someone like Beet or phnkrocket or ag want to chime in, I'm all ears, but forgive me if I disregard the notions of non-economists or at least of non-quantitatively-based individuals.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Gustaf on July 14, 2012, 04:46:39 AM
Like most economic issues, I try not to weigh in unless I have seen empirics/regressions/econometrics and understand the theory behind it. I am not yet to this point on taxes. What I can say is that basing tax rates on personal whimsies or some misplaced moral sentiment is both short-sighted and destined for many unintended consequences. I neither believe inherently in soaking the rich nor defeating some tyrannically vampiric government, though I believe that the income tax is an important and necessary tool at the government's disposal. There are many variables to consider, from the width of the brackets to their height to their multiplicity (though I intuitively prefer an upward-sloping continuous function rather than a piece-wise one for a number of reasons), not to mention various different institutions levying said taxes.

If someone like Beet or phnkrocket or ag want to chime in, I'm all ears, but forgive me if I disregard the notions of non-economists or at least of non-quantitatively-based individuals.

One of the problems with income tax is that it is one of those taxes that hurt the economy the most. After a lots of back and forths on the issue I think that it has been settled that there is a  fairly high intertemporal elasticity of labour supply on the macro level (I want to emphasize that I think this to be true, because I suspect I was given a biased perspective on this by my education). Thus, higher taxes on income mean fewer hours worked and thereby lower GDP.

This effect becomes especially marked at high marginal rates, which is what I've been saying in this thread.

There are still plenty of reasons to have income taxes, of course, but it is rather dubious to have them at the high rates some people here seem to want.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on July 14, 2012, 04:54:39 PM
Little late to the party, but I'd say somewhere between 22% and 28% sounds about right. I support a flat tax, of course.


Title: Re: Preferred Individual Top Income Tax Rate
Post by: Supersonic on July 14, 2012, 06:20:41 PM
I think it's currently 45% in the UK currently, cut from 50% in March.

Though if I had my way, I'd lower it to 40%, with the chance of further reductions depending on the state of the economy. Ideally, it could be 35%.