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Title: anyone heard this argument before Post by: freepcrusher on July 10, 2012, 07:12:34 PM I've met plenty of fundies before and argued with them. One thing I've heard them say is that the point of the separation of church and state is to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state.
Anyone heard this argument before? What's your view on it? Title: Re: anyone heard this argument before Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on July 10, 2012, 07:29:46 PM Yes I have. I'm not a fundamentalist, but I wholeheartedly agree with it. One of the reasons why religion has thrived here in the States even as it has precipitously declined in Europe is that our churches are not state sponsored. The pastors and denominations can't count on getting paid via taxes but actually have to make what they say relevant to the laity.
Title: Re: anyone heard this argument before Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on July 15, 2012, 10:52:20 AM The point for the Jeffersonian idea of separation was that neither interferred with the other. Not one gets priority over the other like both sides might argue. Church stays out of government matters, government stays out of church matters. No established churches, no taxes going to churches, no government controlling who gets what religious job, no church saying who gets what political job, etc.
Title: Re: anyone heard this argument before Post by: HagridOfTheDeep on July 15, 2012, 09:03:58 PM I generally agree with Cathcon, but I think it's important to distinguish between Church and God. While Church and State may be separate to make sure neither entity interferes in the administration of the other, I don't believe anyone ever intended God to be precluded from government.
Title: Re: anyone heard this argument before Post by: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian. on July 15, 2012, 11:34:49 PM I generally agree with Cathcon, but I think it's important to distinguish between Church and God. While Church and State may be separate to make sure neither entity interferes in the administration of the other, I don't believe anyone ever intended God to be precluded from government. Well, no. We want folks to vote and govern according to their beliefs and core values. The way this works in America means that we come late to much-needed change sometimes, but on the whole I'd say it's been immensely good for us as a polity and a people. Title: Re: anyone heard this argument before Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on July 18, 2012, 04:58:53 PM I've met plenty of fundies before and argued with them. One thing I've heard them say is that the point of the separation of church and state is to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state. Anyone heard this argument before? What's your view on it? Title: Re: anyone heard this argument before Post by: The Mikado on July 20, 2012, 03:00:42 PM It makes a lot of sense. Try to imagine Congress confirming the appointment of Bishops of the United American Church. Or Congressmen trying to weasel themselves a nice cushy bishopric as a retirement sinecure.
Title: Re: anyone heard this argument before Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on July 20, 2012, 04:04:40 PM It makes a lot of sense. Try to imagine Congress confirming the appointment of Bishops of the United American Church. Or Congressmen trying to weasel themselves a nice cushy bishopric as a retirement sinecure. Which is exactly what would happen. Because it would be America. Title: Re: anyone heard this argument before Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on July 20, 2012, 10:24:30 PM It makes a lot of sense. Try to imagine Congress confirming the appointment of Bishops of the United American Church. Or Congressmen trying to weasel themselves a nice cushy bishopric as a retirement sinecure. Were I a Congressman, I'd definitely go for the latter. |