Talk Elections

I'm still gonna go out on a limb and still say edge Biden. But a Ryan debate legit scares me now. Can the old man pull it out? What does it look like? And no trolling saying " Ryan will out-statistic Biden, and he'll just gaffe the entire time". (Winfield and Politico)

Biden only just scraped by against Palin. He'll be crushed.

To be fair, Ryan probably will out-statistic Biden.

Its going to be fun to watch no matter what...

Palin just beat expectations. Everyone thought Biden won.
"According to a poll of uncommitted voters conducted immediately after the debate by CBS News and the former Knowledge Network, 46% thought Senator Biden won the debate, 21% thought Governor Palin had won, and 33% thought it was a tie. Fox News Channel held a poll regarding the performance of each candidate, with 51% of the votes in favor of Biden, and 39% in favor of Palin. The Opinion Research Corporation's poll on the debate revealed that 51% of viewers felt Biden had won, while 36% were in favor of Palin. In the same poll, 87% said Biden was capable of fulfilling the duties of the vice presidency, while 42% said Palin is. Palin was considered more likable however, scoring 54% to Biden's 36%.Mark Halperin of Time graded both candidates' performances a B."

I've seen Ryan taking on Obama.  Edge to Ryan (though it will have about as much effect and Bentson's win in 1988).

Too bad Ryan won't be debating Obama.

It really depends on the debate topics. I'm sure Biden would win big points on foreign policy discussion, while Ryan has the edge on deficit reduction. The fact that Ryan has a plan (which lets him attack) while Biden will be forced to defend the administration and his role in it has me give Ryan an edge. And yeah, Ryan probably will out statistic Biden.

Biden clearly won the debate but it was seen as a victory because Biden didn't pummel her. Biden is going to be playing defense for most of this one however. It seems like domestic issue have dominate the past few VP debates.

Biden will represent older Americans who are accustomed to Medicare and Social Security. Republicans would not want people in Ohio and Florida to watch that debate.

Seeing that Ryan's plan would not change anything for older American's I am not so sure about this.

Paul Ryan could make Joe Biden look stupid, the trick for him is not doing so. Ryan is in the tough position of defending entitlement reform in a debate with a senior citizen, he does not want to look like a disrespectful, inconsiderate punk by blowing Biden out of the water. Romney has enough of an "a-hole" problem as it is.

Objectively, Biden is boned. The man legitimately did just scrape by Palin, proving that either she had one night out of character or that his specialty seriously isn't debating, and now he gets to match someone who has spent most of his recent years in Congress debating.

Ryan might have all the charisma of a toaster, but strictly speaking, I find him far more intelligent than both his opponent and his predecessor.

Ryan vs Biden is a going to be a much more interesting debate anyways. Obama/Romney is going to be a relatively safe debate while Ryan/Biden could get interesting

Ryan will win, however the bar by blabbing conservatives and fox will set the bar very high that it may look like a tie.

What is all this "Biden scraped by against Palin" nonsense? He easily won but he did so while looking like a gentleman, which is what he had to do. Biden is not dumb. He won't have to hold back against Ryan.

Ryan isn't dumb either though, so it should be a good and hopefully intense debate. It'll definitely be better than the snoozefest we would have got with Portman or the annihilation we would have seen with Pawlenty.

This is assuming they aren't jealous bastards who don't care about their kids or grandkids. Why is there an exemption down to 55 years old besides electoral advantage? Is there any valid reason for it? Those already enrolled in Medicare should be allowed to continue, but why exempt those who are years away from enrolling?

The logic is probably that it gives those close to enrolling a pass since their financial planning was done with the understanding that they would be able to enroll. I'm sure there is some electoral consideration involved too. Obviously a budget plan must be able to actually pass for it to actually happen. The line has to be drawn somewhere and Ryan chose 55.

Discussing changes to the Medicare/Social security system is one of the unspeakable truths in American politics, that it will one day collapse if significant changes are not made. It remains to be seen if the voters will appreciate such honesty or eviscerate him for breaking the taboo. By choosing Ryan, Romney may have defined this election as such.

The thing is, the campaign didn't want Biden to pummel Palin and seem like he was talking down to her, like Bush seemed in 1984 against Ferraro. Now with Ryan, Biden can go all out against Ryan and Romney like he did back in the Senate. Don't forget, Biden comes from a time where there was actually spirited floor fights and debate in the US Senate. Everything wasn't done beforehand by party leaders in committee back then. Ryan is also gifted at argument. What's certain, this will be the most interesting VP debate in decades.

The Medicare and Social Security "problems" are two of perhaps the easiest solved issues in American politics right now, let's not pretend they require some unknown, wonky, new approach that has never been attempted ever before. The only reason no headway has been made on those issues and have subsquently been made "taboo" is because the ideology of the Right in this country has never actually been geared toward problem solving, but rather, focused on using problems as a vehicle to implement their ideological view of what government should do, rather than what it can do.

The left hasn't been remotely interested in dealing with it either. Every mention of what to do about the massive budget apocalypse of these programs is either demagogued ruthlessly as ___ hates old people/sick people/poor people/etc or just proposing some statement-making tax increase that does nothing to address the massive looming shortfall. No, the left has been raiding social security over the years just like everyone else.

The trick is to make Biden look very old and out of touch.  Biden has the energy of a man ten years younger, but he's still a relatively old guy; and the age will catch up to him at some point.  Make Biden look senile and stupid with all his gaffes.  I would advise Biden to get a lot of rest for the next month, just try to do nothing stressful.  

Ryan may look too young and nerdy compared to Biden.  Ryan has to connect to voters empathetically and not with numbers.  He needs to be the compassionate next generation of Catholic politicians, taking the baton from Biden.  

Biden's always been very good at ramble-rousing, and that is his strength.  Ryan has to make voters love him more than Joe.  

A left-wing party would follow through on those solutions. Your problem is considering the Democratic Party as a left-wing party.

Biden has only made like one gaffe all year, and that was his endorsement of marriage equality. And even that one wasn't considered a huge gaffe.
That's easier said than done. Biden's very popular among working class whites. He's got that crazy lovable grandpa, or favorite drunk uncle thing going for him. Romney strikes you as your smug neighbor or boss and Ryan is tour brother in law who the family never quite likes.
And I think Brian Schweitzer is next in line as "the compassionate next generation of Catholic politicians." That title been in the Democratic Family since the 1960s. JFK, RFK, EMK, JRB, and now BDS.

Biden had to be held back on Palin because they didn't want him to look condescending when he was up against a woman. He can look condescending against Paul Ryan, because of the huge age difference and experience gap.

The choice is whether we do this while preserving tax cuts for the rich (hell Romney and Ryan want to cut their taxes more) or do we have a balanced approach. To be honest no candidate is running on a balanced approach, but personally I find letting the wealthy off the hook at the expense of middle class seniors as unacceptable. Obviously pain needs to be shared, but the Romney and Ryan plan would shift the pain on to those who can least afford it, and none to those who can most afford it.

What in particular are you thinking of?

I think this will be evenly matched like 2000 was. Two serious, down-to-earth wonks who know their stuff and each other. Biden could gaffe or appear condescending, Ryan could come off too green-eyeshady if he's badly coached. Both should just be themselves.

On Biden-Palin: What sirnick said. Anyone who thinks Palin "beat" Biden either didn't watch it or is trolling.

I think you're right. 2000s debate, information and preparedness wise was a draw. BUT, Cheney came off as funny and like able (weird huh?) and so people gave it to him. That's probably what's gonna happene here. They'll both come off as knowledgeable, but Biden will seem funnier and more down to earth, while Ryan will seem eager and to matter-of-factly.

I agree with you. This personality part of the debate won't matter as much for Biden, he's the incumbent with a well-established persona amongst the voters. For Ryan it does matter because of the inevitable Dem attacks on him (and especially Romney) as a heartless accountant. He needs to come off like he does on the trail, not try and outdo Biden. That would be a redux of Jindal's response, trying to adopt someone else's personality/style.

Yeah, I think Paul Ryan is too much brains and not enough Heart. 

He sounds too much of an randian to care about the plight of the working class.  He needs a little more of Clinton and Dubya's "I feel your pain" empathizer-in-chief. 

Even Obama has a good "I feel your pain" vibe, hence the Obama-care. 

Its funny how simple it is winning the presidency when you compare "I feel your pain" candidates to their losing opponents.  Romney tried to be like Reagan but is quickly coming up short.  Romney needs to out-empathize Obama, which is difficult and can only be done by making him look "out of touch with the common man." 

The Romney-Ryan ticket is quickly being known for being the "arrogant rich guy" ticket and not the "common man's ticket"

Obama did not want to take Ryan on.

Ryan will get the better of Biden by a long shot.

::)   


.....Ryan was the VP the Obama camp was rooting for......

Experience gives Biden the edge, the ticket really lacks any foreign policy knowledge, so that issue coming up a lot and given Biden the opportunity to really outpace Ryan.

In rsponse to Mondale84

You obviously did not see the exchange between Ryan and Obama on CNN footage where Obama backed down in an exchange with Ryan on budgetary matters by stating that is a matter that requires further discussion.

So you're basing your claim that Obama is somehow scared of Ryan on some CNN "footage" where Obama "backed down"? LOL

You obviously didn't see the exchange between Ryan and Obama and pretty much every other House Republican back in 2010. He answered Ryan's question and then went on to explain everything soma caveman could get it. He smacked down each and everyone of them.

Not according to liberal media outlet CNN my friend, in particular John King.

John King is good at analyzing maps but little else...

What?  But John King is a member of "the best political team on television" accoridng to Wolf Blitzer. 

Wolf Blitzer is a troll and so is the Corporatist News Network

But I thought all the trolls occupied this forum.