Talk Elections

Forum Community => Forum Community => Topic started by: Reaganfan on September 03, 2012, 04:36:07 PM



Title: How's your family voting?
Post by: Reaganfan on September 03, 2012, 04:36:07 PM
My family:

Myself - Romney (voted McCain in 2008)
Father - Romney (voted McCain in 2008)
Mother - Obama (voted Obama in 2008)
Stepfather - Obama (voted Obama in 2008)
Stepmother - Romney (voted McCain in 2008)
Sister #1 - Obama (voted Obama in 2008)
Sister #2 - Romney (voted Obama in 2008)
Stepbrother - Romney (NEW VOTER)
Brother in law - Romney (voted McCain in 2008)

So for my family it is:
Romney: 6
Obama: 3

One change from Obama to Romney, and one new Romney vote.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: They put it to a vote and they just kept lying on September 03, 2012, 04:38:26 PM
Mom: Romney
Dad: Romney


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: morgieb on September 03, 2012, 04:39:34 PM
They don't.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Donerail on September 03, 2012, 04:42:06 PM
Mine are probably voting for Obama :(


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 03, 2012, 04:44:11 PM
Man, reaganfan, you've got a complicated family.

Myself - Romney (neutral in 2008)
Father - Romney (supported Obama in 2008)
Mother - Romney (supported Obama in 2008)
Brother - Romney (? in 2008, but voted Democrat in 2006, so probably Obama)

Yeah...


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: CLARENCE 2015! on September 03, 2012, 04:44:19 PM
Older Daughter- Romney
Son- Likely does not vote
Younger Daughter- Obama



Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: pepper11 on September 03, 2012, 04:53:01 PM
Me: Romney (McCain)
Wife: Romney (McCain)
Mom: Obama (Obama)
Dad: Romney (McCain)
Sib 1: Undecided (DNV)
Sib 2: Romney (DNV)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: jaichind on September 03, 2012, 07:15:33 PM
Me - Romney (voted McCain in 2008 mostly because pressure from my wife who detested Obama, I was going to vote for Barr to protest McCain's Iraq policy)
Wife - Romney (she did not vote in 2008 because she was not a citizen yet but I think made sure she became a citizen by 2012 election so she can vote against Obama)
Mother - Romeny (she has voted GOP since the 1980s)
Cousin - Obama (he has always been Democrat)
Aunt - Obama (she has been always Democrat)
Uncle - Will not vote (he is mostly pro-Democrat but being someone who is a radical supporter of Taiwan Independence he will not against a PRC-hostile GOP)

It is funny, but since I was able to vote since 1992 I have never voted for the winner of the popular vote.  In 1992 I was for Bush I (lost), 1996 Dole (lost), 2000 Bush II (he lost the popular vote), 2004 Badnarik (I voted Libertarian to protest against the Iraq War), 2008 McCain (lost).


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: angus on September 03, 2012, 07:20:29 PM
The wife is not a registered voter.  She won't vote.  The boy is 7.  If he could vote, he'd be voting for more TV, a later bedtime, and violent video games.  There's also a hermit crab who lives here named Mister Frederickson.  We bought him at Petsmart about a month ago for my son.  He came with a two-week warranty.  He has outlived his warranty by at least 15 days.  To my knowledge he is fairly apolitical as well.  All of which means that 100% of my immediate family will vote for Mitt Romney.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: HST1948 on September 03, 2012, 07:20:55 PM
Me: Obama
Mom: Obama
Dad: Romney
Sister: Obama
Maternal Grandfather: Romney
Paternal Grandfather: Romney
Paternal Grandmother: Romney
Aunt: Romney
Uncle: Romney
Aunt: Idk


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Snowstalker Mk. II on September 03, 2012, 07:23:31 PM
Me: Too young
Sister: Obama
Mom: Obama
Dad: Obama
The rest: No idea.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY on September 03, 2012, 07:35:41 PM
Obama. My sister's a new vote, so she could help in this critical swing state.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: J. J. on September 03, 2012, 07:38:08 PM
My commie aunt in CA, Obama.

My commie cousin in IL, Obama. (Though she looks like Palin.)

The other 15, Romney.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Reaganfan on September 03, 2012, 07:45:06 PM
Totals thus far:

Romney: 42
Obama: 16


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Small Business Owner of Any Repute on September 03, 2012, 07:57:42 PM
My parents are likely both voting for Romney, and both getting an earful from me about it when Thanksgiving rolls around. :/


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Beet on September 03, 2012, 08:00:41 PM
No idea, as I don't talk to my family about politics.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: tmthforu94 on September 03, 2012, 08:02:54 PM
In my close family, there are 7 of us, and all will be voting for Romney. I am the only one who didn't vote McCain in 2008, only because I couldn't vote.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on September 03, 2012, 08:23:09 PM
Dad, oldest brother, sister in law, uncle, aunt, and four cousins- Likely Romney
Me-Undecided, likely a Paul write in
Younger sister-Romney Johnson or a Paul write in: likel first time voter



Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Niemeyerite on September 03, 2012, 08:27:50 PM
My mother's cousin, who lived in NJ (she died 3 years ago) was a democrat, so I guess her husband and her daughters are voting for Obama.

My uncle, who settled in Miami for 6 years, (1994-2000), is a reliable republican, and still is, so I'm sure he'd vote Romney if he could. I think he voted Bush in 2000, but I'm not sure if he could vote. He votes DEM in Brazil, now.

The rest of my family, excluding my maternal grandpa, would be liberal democrats if they lived in the USA.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: NVGonzalez on September 03, 2012, 08:31:29 PM
Mom: Obama
Dad: Obama
Both of my sisters: Obama
Me: Obama
Uncle: Romney


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: GLPman on September 03, 2012, 08:46:32 PM
Most likely this:

Me: Romney
Dad: Romney
Mom: Obama
Brother: Obama
Grandmother: Romney


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Reaganfan on September 03, 2012, 08:50:30 PM
Updated totals:

Romney: 86
Obama: 25


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Vosem on September 03, 2012, 09:08:27 PM
My parents will vote Romney. My maternal grandmother will vote Romney. Other wings of the family will vote unanimously Obama.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Frodo on September 03, 2012, 09:11:05 PM
I am fairly confident that everyone who is planning on voting this year will vote for the Obama/Biden ticket. 


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: sg0508 on September 03, 2012, 09:19:33 PM
Mom, dad, grandma and myself...all 4 voting for Obama.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Comrade Funk on September 03, 2012, 09:20:58 PM
Me: Obama
Dad: Obama
Sister: Obama
Mom: Stein (she isn't political all that much, but she actually liked Stein when I talked about her)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: FEMA Camp Administrator on September 03, 2012, 09:25:25 PM
The only member of my immediate family who can vote is voting Romney. My Dad's side is pretty solidly Democratic, and my Mom's side is more conservative, looks like the majority of the old folks will be voting Republican, one planning on not voting. My Mom's generation in her family is trickier. Not sure on them.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: NHI on September 03, 2012, 09:54:00 PM
Romney all the way!!


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: TJ in Oregon on September 03, 2012, 10:26:06 PM
Me: Romney
Mom: Romney
Dad: Romney
Brother: Romney
Sister: Romney

Dad's side:
Paternal Grandfather: Romney
Paternal Grandmother: Romney (although there is a possibility of a protest Santorum write-in)
Aunt 1: Obama
Uncle 1: Obama
Aunt 2: Romney
Uncle 2: Romney
Aunt 3: Romney
Uncle 3: Romney
Aunt 4: Romney
Uncle 4: Romney
Uncle 5: Romney

Mom's Side:
(Grandparents deceased)
Uncle 1: Romney
Aunt 1: Obama
Uncle 2: Obama
Aunt 2: Obama
Aunt 3: Lean Romney
Uncle 3: Romney (though a lifelong Democrat)
Uncle 4: Romney
Aunt 4: Who knows?

My family should help Naso's stat :P


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Hoverbored123 on September 03, 2012, 10:34:48 PM
My family:

Myself - Romney (voted McCain in 2008)
Father - Romney (voted McCain in 2008)
Mother - Obama (voted Obama in 2008)
Stepfather - Obama (voted Obama in 2008)
Stepmother - Romney (voted McCain in 2008)
Sister #1 - Obama (voted Obama in 2008)
Sister #2 - Romney (voted Obama in 2008)
Stepbrother - Romney (NEW VOTER)
Brother in law - Romney (voted McCain in 2008)

So for my family it is:
Romney: 6
Obama: 3

One change from Obama to Romney, and one new Romney vote.

Blended political families are more than common, I imagine.  As for us:

Mom and Pop: Romney
Me: Romney
Sister 1: Obama (likely)
Sister 2: Obama (likely)
Brother: unknown (possible Romney)

I'm not surprised by the trend: older and male voters seem to favor Romney, ladies leaning Obama (the younger, the more so).


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: bgwah on September 03, 2012, 10:38:27 PM
Me: Obama
Dad: Obama
Mom: Obama
Brother: I don't think he votes. If he did, maybe Johnson?


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Reaganfan on September 03, 2012, 11:22:48 PM
Updated totals:

Romney: 105
Obama: 42


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: The world will shine with light in our nightmare on September 03, 2012, 11:32:16 PM
Mom: Obama (Obama)
Dad: Obama (Obama)
Myself: Too young

Not sure about anyone else in my family.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Chaddyr23 on September 04, 2012, 02:15:51 AM
Me, Mom, and dad. All Obama.
Both Aunts and five cousins in the US all for Obama.
Interesting thing is one of my uncles is a NRA member, military loving, former Bush voter but he's voting for Obama. Claims Republicans are disgusting now. Idk what happened!


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Free Palestine on September 04, 2012, 02:24:40 AM
Me: Jill Stein or Gary Johnson.  Or Stewart Alexander if he's on the ballot here.
Father: Probably not voting.
Mother: Will probably just vote for whoever I convince her to vote for.

Imbecile relatives in Bakersfield: Probably Romney since they're all a bunch of racist hicks.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Alcon on September 04, 2012, 02:34:06 AM
All of my grandparents, now-deceased, were rock-ribbed Republicans -- although my Southern, virulently intolerant/crazy grandmother had a bizarre conversion to NPR Democrat when she moved to Washington in her later years.

For whatever reason, all of my family is now Democratic, although there might be one or two closeted Republicans over fiscal issues (although probably not.)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Marokai Backbeat on September 04, 2012, 02:52:23 AM
In short: Mothers side, Obama. Father's side, Romney.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: opebo on September 04, 2012, 07:14:02 AM
100% of my immediate family will vote for Mitt Romney.

You're kidding, you're actually voting for Romney?  Why on earth?

As for my family everyone is either out of the country or mad as march hares, so I don't expect much meaningful voting.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Franzl on September 04, 2012, 09:23:10 AM
All close American family members (mother, uncle, grandfather) will certainly vote for Obama. All German family...obviously....would if they could.

And I'm certainly voting for Obama.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: afleitch on September 04, 2012, 09:36:36 AM
Michael is voting for Obama. Sadly he's registered in New York not in Pennsylvania. Still better there than no-where :)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: krazen1211 on September 04, 2012, 09:38:41 AM
12 Romney
3 Obama


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Hatman 🍁 on September 04, 2012, 09:41:10 AM
My closest American family (3rd cousins) seem like the religious teabagger types, so I would imagine Romney. But, they don't post political stuff on facebook that much except for something that was "pro-traditional marriage". It always seems like a culture clash when they come up to the cottage.

I apparently have other family in the US (2nd cousins I think), but I don't know them.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: SPC on September 04, 2012, 10:38:33 AM
Me: Johnson (Ineligible in 2008)
Mom: Romney (McCain in 2008)
Dad: Romney (McCain in 2008)
Uncle: Romney (McCain in 2008)
Aunt: Romney (McCain in 2008)
Grandmother: Romney (McCain in 2008)
Grandfather: Romney (McCain in 2008)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on September 04, 2012, 10:40:56 AM
I don't know. My immediate family will vote for Romney. I think the only Democrats in my family live in DC.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: © tweed on September 04, 2012, 10:42:28 AM
everyone Obama unless I can convince my mom to protest vote for Rocky or Jill Stein or etc.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: minionofmidas on September 04, 2012, 10:52:25 AM
Not in this election.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: angus on September 04, 2012, 10:55:03 AM
100% of my immediate family will vote for Mitt Romney.

You're kidding, you're actually voting for Romney?  Why on earth?

As for my family everyone is either out of the country or mad as march hares, so I don't expect much meaningful voting.

I voted for Obama in 2008 and it's raining today.  Obama's fault.  

No, seriously, mainly because we only have one shot at overturning the medical insurance bill passed in the last congress.  You know I'm normally a fan of divided government.  If I think the congress will be Republican, I want a Democrat president and vice-versa.  But this year we need a Republican president and a Republican congress.  Even that's no guarantee, but all the conservative think tanks and all the right wing lobbyists, in the event that the GOP controls both elected branches of government, will put tremendous pressure on them to Repeal and Replace.  Or, better yet, just Repeal.

Beyond that, I'm still a fan of having the two elected branches of government controlled by different parties.  Gridlock is good.  If they can't pass laws, then at least they're not fu()cking everything up.

Also, Obama's foreign policy still suits me, and some of his domestic agenda does.  If he wants to pull a Grover Cleveland and come back in four years, after a mediocre one-term Romney presidency, then I'd consider supporting him again.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Bacon King on September 04, 2012, 11:01:13 AM
Me: Obama (Obama)
Brother: Undecided (first time voter)
Dad: likely Johnson (McCain)
Mom: Obama (Obama)

maternal grandmother: lean Obama (Obama)

paternal grandmother: likely Romney (McCain)
paternal grandfather: Romney (McCain)

Of my five uncles, 4 are Romney (McCain) and 1 is lean Obama (McCain).
Of my five aunts, 3 are Romney (McCain), 1 is Undecided (McCain), and 1 is Stein (Nader).

Of my 7 male cousins, 3 are Obama (Obama), 1 is Obama (McCain), 1 is Undecided (McCain), 1 is a first-time voter for Obama, and 1 voted for McCain in 2008 but has since been convicted of a felony and is thus unable to vote.
Of my 5 female cousins, 1 is Obama (Obama), 2 are Undecided (Obama), 1 is a first-time voter for Romney, and one will only be 17 on election day but supports Romney.
   


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: bore on September 04, 2012, 11:10:17 AM
My only american relatives (a great uncle, a great aunt and their son) will be voting for Obama, not that it really matters, what with them living in Massachusetts.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: opebo on September 04, 2012, 11:21:13 AM
...mainly because we only have one shot at overturning the medical insurance bill passed in the last congress.

You consider that a big deal?  Can't imagine why. 

I guess if we're doing extended families here I should hazard a guess that most of those awful racist intolerant people will vote for Romney.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: RJ on September 04, 2012, 11:37:56 AM
My family is voting 6-2 in Obamas favor. Both Romney votes are from women(mom and sister) and no one is changing parties this time around.

My brother's and his wife's votes don't count as much as mine since they live in Illinois!


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 04, 2012, 11:49:47 AM
Also, Obama's foreign policy still suits me, and some of his domestic agenda does.

I've yet to meet anyone who can seriously tell me that Obama and Romney would have different foreign policies. (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/05/23/barack_oromney\)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 04, 2012, 12:00:30 PM
My parents are voting for Obama, obviously; I don't know of any other US citizens of voting age in my family.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: angus on September 04, 2012, 12:19:16 PM
...mainly because we only have one shot at overturning the medical insurance bill passed in the last congress.

You consider that a big deal?  Can't imagine why.  

I guess if we're doing extended families here I should hazard a guess that most of those awful racist intolerant people will vote for Romney.

I'm still thinking that a federal debt that is greater than 100% of the GNP is probably our biggest problem.  Well, that and the fact that we're unnecessarily paranoid.  I think the latter is a more systemic problem with a tougher, longer-range solution, but the former, although also a systemic problem, is more easily mastered.  

But I'm not going to argue about it.  I've argued with Beet and others about the medical bill, and we all admit that we really don't yet know its cost.  My gut feeling is that it is bad legislation, passed with secrecy and in ignorance--most legislators openly admitted that they did not read it--and that it will exacerbate the debt problem.  It is a patchwork solution to a terrific and pervasive problem.  If we want to tackle the problem of rising health care costs, we should, but having this bill looming over us inhibits any meaningful efforts.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: opebo on September 04, 2012, 12:53:49 PM
I'm still thinking that a federal debt that is greater than 100% of the GNP is probably our biggest problem.

That's caused by under-taxation of the wealthy - it has nothing to do with spending.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Gass3268 on September 04, 2012, 01:05:44 PM
Me: Obama (Obama)
Mom: Obama (Obama)
Dad: Obama in MO (Obama in WI)
Brother: Obama (Too young to vote)
Dad's Girlfriend: Obama in MO (Obama in MO)

Maternal Grandmother: Obama (Obama)
Maternal Grandfather: Obama (Obama)

Maternal Grandfather's Sister: Obama (Obama)
Her Daughter: Obama (Obama)
Her Son-In-Law: Obama (Obama)

Maternal Grandfather's Nephew: Undecided, could vote for either Romney or Obama, doesn't like either, voted for Johnson and Walker in 2010 (Obama)
His wife: Probably Romney, but may fallow her husband (Don't know)
Their oldest Daughter: Romney (McCain)
Her Husband: Romney (McCain)
Their youngest Daughter: Obama (Obama)
Her boyfriend: Obama (Obama)

Paternal Grandmother: Obama (Obama)

Uncle on my Dad's side: Obama (Obama)
His wife my Aunt: Obama (Obama)
Their Daughter my Cousin: Obama (Obama)
Their Son my Cousin: Obama (To young to vote)

Totals

2008 it was: Obama 16-17 (15-16 in Wisconsin, 1 in Missouri) McCain 2-3
2012 it will be: Obama 18-20 (16-18 in Wisconsin, 2 in Missouri) Romney 2-4


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: zorkpolitics on September 04, 2012, 01:18:37 PM
Me    McCain -> Romney
Wife  McCain -> Romney
Older daughter   Obama -> undecided
Younger Daughter   McCain -> Romney
2 sisters   McCain -> Romney
Other sister   Obama -> Obama


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: angus on September 04, 2012, 01:26:41 PM
I'm still thinking that a federal debt that is greater than 100% of the GNP is probably our biggest problem.

That's caused by under-taxation of the wealthy - it has nothing to do with spending.

Precisely the tax policy that Obama has pursued in order to remain popular. 

I would agree that you either need to decrease spending or increase revenues.  (There's some argument that lower taxes increase revenues indirectly, of course, since lowering the tax rates spurs investment, etc.  I guess that's supply-side economics.)  Either way, this bill will only have the affect of increasing both the percent of GDP that we spend on health care, and the number of dollars spent, so it seems less like an amelioration than an exacerbation of the problem. 

Your tacit assumption may also be a right:  with the GOP in control of both branches, the debt crisis may worsen, and it's why I generally prefer divided government.  Our best years were the period from 1994 to 2000.  Growth and surpluses.  Assuming that we ignore the looming mortgage crisis that started with the housing boomlet during that period, and credit crunch that resulted in the following decade, those were good times.  Fine, we can throw the bums out in 2014.  Romney with a Democrat congress would be a good setup.



Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: opebo on September 04, 2012, 01:52:14 PM
...Our best years were the period from 1994 to 2000.  Growth and surpluses., those were good times..

Well, lets remember, those were still terrible times compared to previous eras - particularly the '40s-early '70s.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 04, 2012, 02:51:20 PM
Precisely the tax policy that Obama has pursued in order to remain popular. 

I would agree that you either need to decrease spending or increase revenues.  (There's some argument that lower taxes increase revenues indirectly, of course, since lowering the tax rates spurs investment, etc.  I guess that's supply-side economics.)  Either way, this bill will only have the affect of increasing both the percent of GDP that we spend on health care, and the number of dollars spent, so it seems less like an amelioration than an exacerbation of the problem. 

You know, there are other ways to increase revenue besides raising tax rates. Like for one, having the economy recover faster. And when the majority of businesses list "regulatory uncertainty" as the reason they're not hiring more people and expanding, I perhaps think Obamacare had an influence on our revenues as much as it had on our spending.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Fmr. Pres. Duke on September 04, 2012, 02:56:45 PM
Debt making up over 100% of GDP is going to hamper growth more than you can imagine. Granted I do think raising taxes on the upper incomes to the 1990s levels would help, I fear that doing it now in a recession/gentle period like right now would really hurt revenues, as people would look for loopholes and decrease investment spending.

As it stands though, we are looking at a structural deficit even if the economy recovers to its full capacity, so spending much be reeled in or taxes raised significantly. With the government making up 30% of the economy now, cutting spending will lead to a decrease in GDP, so we are screwed either way, but we will have to make hard choices to avoid bankruptcy in the future.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: sparkey on September 04, 2012, 03:00:34 PM
Myself - Johnson (Barr)
Wife - Obama (did not vote)
Mother - Romney (McCain)
Father - Romney (McCain)
Sister - Obama (Obama)
Mother-in-law - Romney (not Obama)
Father-in-law - not a citizen
Sister's fiance - dunno (dunno)
Wife's brother - not Romney (did not vote)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 04, 2012, 03:07:00 PM
Debt making up over 100% of GDP is going to hamper growth more than you can imagine. Granted I do think raising taxes on the upper incomes to the 1990s levels would help, I fear that doing it now in a recession/gentle period like right now would really hurt revenues, as people would look for loopholes and decrease investment spending.

As it stands though, we are looking at a structural deficit even if the economy recovers to its full capacity, so spending much be reeled in or taxes raised significantly. With the government making up 30% of the economy now, cutting spending will lead to a decrease in GDP, so we are screwed either way, but we will have to make hard choices to avoid bankruptcy in the future.

I can agree with most of this. Though I am very skeptical of the effect of raising income taxes rates (for the rich) to the 1990's levels. For one, that would generate about $49 billion in tax revenues every year. Or roughly 1/18th of what we need to pay for the ARRA.

Also, nit picking point, government spending actually makes about 41% or so of the GDP. It was 42.5% in 2010 (according to the OECD). We've probably dropped a little from 2010, but we're still probably still around 41%. Of course, only a little over half of that is federal spending, but we know many programs are both partially state and federal. And how large parts of the ARRA were primarily used to shore up state budgets. And that's not counting tax expenditures, which are about another 7% of GDP.

Though I do agree with on that point. Reducing government spending will hurt the economy in the short-term. And deficits also hurt. And raising taxes hurt. Every possible option will hurt. And considering how weak the economy is, I'd oppose both raising tax rates and seriously cutting current spending. At the same time, there are steps we can take to reduce the future debt without harming the current recovery - like tackling future obligations by reforming the entitlements that are really going to send us careening off the fiscal edge. Since that's not money we're spending right now, but rather money that we will spend in the future. So cutting that wouldn't decimate aggregate demand the same way cutting current spending would.

Which is why I find the Democrat/leftist opposition to entitlement reform and frothing hatred of Ryan so astounding. There are tons of things I want the government to do - from providing public education, some degree of public healthcare, a strong social safety net, nutritional aid, building infrastructure, subsidizing childcare, promoting new energy resources, development aid abroad, and others. All expenditures that entitlements will crowd out and expedintures that I used to think Democrats wanted to preserve.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Reaganfan on September 04, 2012, 03:43:45 PM
Updated totals:

Romney: 144
Obama: 101

Not including leaners.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: opebo on September 04, 2012, 03:49:50 PM
Updated totals:

Romney: 144
Obama: 101

Not including leaners.

Many of us didn't give any exact number of family members, Naso.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Reaganfan on September 04, 2012, 03:53:37 PM
Updated totals:

Romney: 144
Obama: 101

Not including leaners.

Many of us didn't give any exact number of family members, .

I didn't include that, either. Those numbers are the for sures. My sister, my uncle, ect. I didn't include leaners, possibles or vague guesses.

Do not tamper with NEPOTE Polling Data.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: SPC on September 04, 2012, 04:09:59 PM
Updated totals:

Romney: 144
Obama: 101

Not including leaners.

Did you adjust for how they voted last election?


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Reaganfan on September 04, 2012, 04:49:57 PM
Updated totals:

Romney: 144
Obama: 101

Not including leaners.

Did you adjust for how they voted last election?

New voters, and switches were included in NEPOTE™ polling data.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Sbane on September 04, 2012, 04:55:23 PM
Me: Obama
Dad: Obama ( I think it's the PPACA that did it for him since he doesn't like higher taxes and Obama's plan would raise it at the margins)
Mom: Obama
Sister: Needs to register first but likely Obama.
Uncle: Haven't asked him but he hates California Democrats so likely Romney.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Torie on September 04, 2012, 05:20:30 PM
I am a lone Pub island in a sea of Dems.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Link on September 04, 2012, 05:25:58 PM
Man, reaganfan, you've got a complicated family.

Yes just like the real Reagan.  I guess that's what happens with all those "family values."

Anyway I never really thought about it till this question was asked.  I guess my family has real family values.  I can't think of a single blood relative who would vote for a Republican for president.  All the Republican candidates in my lifetime have been totally against my family's values.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: TNF on September 04, 2012, 07:25:10 PM
Paternal Grandfather: Unknown
Paternal Grandmother: Not voting (McCain)
Father: Not voting (Didn't vote)
Stepmother: Not voting (Didn't vote)
Half-sister: Too young
Half-sister: Too young

Maternal Grandfather: Obama (Obama)
Maternal Grandmother: Not voting (Didn't vote)
Mother: Not voting (Nader)
Stepfather: Not voting (Barr)
Stepsister: Romney (McCain)
Stepbrother: Obama (McCain)
Me: Obama (Too young)
Stepbrother: Too young
Brother: Too young

Girlfriend: Obama (Too young)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Indy Texas on September 04, 2012, 08:04:05 PM
In the immediate family (me and my parents), three votes for Obama (same as last time).


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: King on September 04, 2012, 09:35:08 PM
My grandmother I believe is the only one voting for Romney.  She's the only one that voted for McCain.

My whole family voted for Bush in 2004.  Except maybe an aunt or uncle here and there.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Beet on September 04, 2012, 11:28:37 PM
koenkai-

Where do you get the notion that the majority of businesses list regulatory uncertainty as the reason they're not hiring?

Obama doesn't oppose entitlement reform. He was clearly willing to do it in 2011. He's not playing up his willingness to do so now because it's campaign season, but it would be a top item on his agenda along with job creation if he were to win. With Romney I give him credit for picking a VP who has a specific plan. The thing is--Obama has proposed a specific plan too, from 2011.

The Democrats are actually on board with the idea of short-term stimulus and long-term deficit reduction. That's their position.

I actually think it's incomplete. For one thing, government stimulus will always be needed to keep the economy going at an acceptable rate so long as the private sector is in the downswing of the credit cycle. So any budget plan that combines short-term stimulus with long-term deficit reduction needs an estimate of how long the downswing in the private credit cycle will last. Government policy can also be used to perk up the private credit cycle, but there is the question of how much debt the private sector can sustain and at what point goosing up the private credit cycle leaves an economy exhausted. Neither party has, as far as I am concerned, even identified these dynamics, let alone made them clear to the American people. The holy grail, so to speak, would be to return to a pre-1980 dynamic, where a gently increasing private credit cycle in line with (but no faster than) GDP created an acceptable number of jobs.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 05, 2012, 12:02:46 AM
Well, for one, we have seen that centrally planned institutions are often quite bad at instituting stimulus. Yes, in a perfect world, we would have perfectly counter-cyclical spending. And more often than perfectly calibrated stimuli, we see overreactions to not-so-serious problems (see: how stimulus worked out in China) that tend to create problems down the road. And it's fairly obvious why. Imperfect information, the fatal conceit, etc. etc. etc.

The reason why short-term stimulus is acceptable in this case, or at least why short-term spending cuts would not be desirable, is because we took such an awful dip, it's quite obvious that we're in a situation that can responded to without going over the top. I don't believe that we can plan for economic dips deep enough so that they cannot be handled by automatic stabilizers. They don't happen very often. We're probably looking at the Great Depression and Now.

And at least if we have a good, detailed timetable for how we're going to reform entitlements, people are acting with the knowledge of how much we're greasing the wheels. Those should already be priced in. We wouldn't spark a downward animal-spirits spiral.

Obama promised entitlement reform. He had a debt commission - which he frankly ignored. Half of his campaign is predicated around attacking entitlement reform. Every powerful interest group in the Democratic Party is lined up against entitlement reform. The base has rallied against it. It's ludicrous to suggest that either Obama or the Democratic Party would be capable of seriously pushing any kind of entitlement reform. As opposed to the GOP, which has actually voted on the Ryan Plan (in the House). The Democrats aren't in favor of short-term stimulus and long-term entitlement reform. They're in favor of short-term stimulus and long-term "lol we have no clue what we're doing". And If anything else, we're much more likely to flal off the fiscal cliff with Obama. The only candidate who any investor believes could deliver short-term stimulus and long-term entitlement reform is Mitt Romney.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: King on September 05, 2012, 12:15:45 AM
You're contradicting yourself, sir.  You're saying it's great to have timetables and then attacking Obama because timetables like the debt ceiling, debt commission, etc., etc., etc. were ultimately worthless.

The Ryan plan was voted on because they knew it would be defeated.  I absolutely guarantee that Romney would not sign that bill nor would it get passed nor even make it out of committee in a 2 GOP Congress.  It was pure politics.  Ryan himself has spoken against many of the proposals within it earlier in this century. 

The Republicans plan for America is to win the election and then go from there. 


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 05, 2012, 12:24:12 AM
You're contradicting yourself, sir.  You're saying it's great to have timetables and then attacking Obama because timetables like the debt ceiling, debt commission, etc., etc., etc. were ultimately worthless.

The Ryan plan was voted on because they knew it would be defeated.  I absolutely guarantee that Romney would not sign that bill nor would it get passed nor even make it out of committee in a 2 GOP Congress.  It was pure politics.  Ryan himself has spoken against many of the proposals within it earlier in this century. 

The Republicans plan for America is to win the election and then go from there. 

That's hardly a contradiction. A budget plan that changes how medicare/social security works sets a pretty accurate timetable for how future expenses will look. Which is what the Ryan Plan does. Obama's debt commission did nothing because there was no binding timetable. It was just, "I'll get some people to make a plan, then I'll ignore it." No actual policy.

Yes, in politics, sometimes bills are changed before they are passed, largely because other people get to have input. Will the Ryan plan pass in its current form? Of course not. That's not how politics works. After all, we saw Obamacare change many times before it actually passed. But will Mitt Romney try to sign some kind of entitlement reform based on the Ryan plan? Absolutely.

It's again this double-standard. The sausage factory of politics is only wrong when Mitt Romney engages in it. Personal animus again.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Beet on September 05, 2012, 12:27:23 AM
Obama promised entitlement reform. He had a debt commission - which he frankly ignored. Half of his campaign is predicated around attacking entitlement reform. Every powerful interest group in the Democratic Party is lined up against entitlement reform. The base has rallied against it.

Which is mostly silly election year politicking. The fact is, Obama released a $3.6 trillion deficit reduction plan last September, and he agreed to a $4 trillion plan including entitlement reform last summer. This is all public knowledge. $4 trillion long term deficit reduction is in his 2013 budget.

At the end of the day, I'm skeptical of all of these plans. In 1995, the goal of balancing the budget by 2002 was considered a reach. And indeed, the 2002 budget failed to be balanced-- but the 1998-2000 budgets were. In 2001, it was thought that the debt would be paid off by 2010. And so on. These things aren't as predictable as fiscal planners think.

But to say Obama hasn't put something on the table is false. Yes, Democrats want to protect the social safety net relative to Republicans, so they're willing to go slightly higher taxes for the rich and would vote slightly smaller entitlement cuts. Yes, they're making a lot out of these differences in the campaign. But despite all the partisan bickering the actual differences in what the parties are willing to vote for at the end of the day, in terms of numbers, are not all that great.

Quote
And If anything else, we're much more likely to flal off the fiscal cliff with Obama. The only candidate who any investor believes could deliver short-term stimulus and long-term entitlement reform is Mitt Romney.

It seems as if you're trying to convince yourself of this just be repeating it.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 05, 2012, 12:35:43 AM
Which is mostly silly election year politicking. The fact is, Obama released a $3.6 trillion deficit reduction plan last September, and he agreed to a $4 trillion plan including entitlement reform last summer. This is all public knowledge. $4 trillion long term deficit reduction is in his 2013 budget.

At the end of the day, I'm skeptical of all of these plans. In 1995, the goal of balancing the budget by 2002 was considered a reach. And indeed, the 2002 budget failed to be balanced-- but the 1998-2000 budgets were. In 2001, it was thought that the debt would be paid off by 2010. And so on. These things aren't as predictable as fiscal planners think.

But to say Obama hasn't put something on the table is false. Yes, Democrats want to protect the social safety net relative to Republicans, so they're willing to go slightly higher taxes for the rich and would vote slightly smaller entitlement cuts. Yes, they're making a lot out of these differences in the campaign. But despite all the partisan bickering the actual differences in what the parties are willing to vote for at the end of the day, in terms of numbers, are not all that great.

Quote
And If anything else, we're much more likely to flal off the fiscal cliff with Obama. The only candidate who any investor believes could deliver short-term stimulus and long-term entitlement reform is Mitt Romney.

It seems as if you're trying to convince yourself of this just be repeating it.

That abortion of a deficit plan? The plan that included $1 trillion in savings for not being in Iraq (aka something not entitlement reform that already happened) and then $1.2 trillion that the "super committee" would naturally create. And then $1.5 trillion in tax hikes (a non-starter). And then almost no changes at all to how Medicare/Social Security work? Oh yeah, that "entitlement reform" plan? I can't believe you're even trying to spin that as a real plan.

I have also literally never met a nonpartisan investor or businessman who could say with a straight face that Obama would be better for the economy. Of course, Obama winning wouldn't be an excuse to instantly flee from the stock market, but it'll certainly be disappointing.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: CultureKing on September 05, 2012, 12:45:56 AM
Hmm:

Immediate family:
Me: Obama
Brother: Obama
Dad: Obama
Mom: Obama

Mom's side:
Aunt: Obama
Uncle: ??? (probably Obama?)
Cousin 1: Obama
Cousin 2: Obama

Dad's side:
Aunt: Romney (though I have a feeling that she may vote for Obama on the DL, she hates a lot of politics and only supports Republicans for economic reasons)
Uncle 1: Romney
Uncle 2: Romney
Uncles 3/4: don't vote (but would be Romney voters if they did)
Cousins (roughly 8 of them): Don't vote but would be solid Romney voters (even-though they heavily depend on social services like Medicaid)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: CatoMinor on September 05, 2012, 12:56:57 AM
Me: Johnson

Mom: Romney
Stepdad: maybe Johnson
Dad: Either Romney or Johnson
Sister: Romney
Brother: Obama (I am working to get him to vote for Stein)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Spamage on September 05, 2012, 12:59:12 AM
Father-Romney
Mother-Romney
Brother-Romney

Mom's Side

Maternal Grandmother- Not voting (says she always chooses a bad candidate was Obama in 08 but Bush before that)

Aunt 1- Obama

Aunt 2-Romney
Uncle 2- Romney
    Cousin 1 Obama
    Cousin 2 Not Voting
 
Aunt 3-Obama
Uncle 3 Obama
    Cousins 3-6 Obama

Aunt 4- Romney
Uncle 4- Romney
    Cousin 7 Obama
    Cousin 8 Romney
    Cousin 9 Romney

Dads Side

Maternal Grandmother- Romney

Aunt 1- Obama
Uncle 1-Obama

Aunt 2- Romney

Aunt 3- Obama
Uncle 3- Obama
     Cousins 1-6 Obama

Aunt 4-Obama
Uncle 4 Obama
     Cousin 7 Obama

Aunt 5 Romney

Aunt 6-Romney
Uncle 6 Romney

Aunt 7- Romney
Uncle 7 Romney

Uncle Romney

Total
Romney 17
Obama 20




Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: King on September 05, 2012, 01:10:55 AM
You're contradicting yourself, sir.  You're saying it's great to have timetables and then attacking Obama because timetables like the debt ceiling, debt commission, etc., etc., etc. were ultimately worthless.

The Ryan plan was voted on because they knew it would be defeated.  I absolutely guarantee that Romney would not sign that bill nor would it get passed nor even make it out of committee in a 2 GOP Congress.  It was pure politics.  Ryan himself has spoken against many of the proposals within it earlier in this century. 

The Republicans plan for America is to win the election and then go from there. 

That's hardly a contradiction. A budget plan that changes how medicare/social security works sets a pretty accurate timetable for how future expenses will look. Which is what the Ryan Plan does. Obama's debt commission did nothing because there was no binding timetable. It was just, "I'll get some people to make a plan, then I'll ignore it." No actual policy.

Yes, in politics, sometimes bills are changed before they are passed, largely because other people get to have input. Will the Ryan plan pass in its current form? Of course not. That's not how politics works. After all, we saw Obamacare change many times before it actually passed. But will Mitt Romney try to sign some kind of entitlement reform based on the Ryan plan? Absolutely.

It's again this double-standard. The sausage factory of politics is only wrong when Mitt Romney engages in it. Personal animus again.

It's wrong when both sides participate it.  I don't understand how that gives Romney the right to win.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 05, 2012, 01:13:45 AM
It's wrong when both sides participate it.  I don't understand how that gives Romney the right to win.

Because one person should not be immediately disqualified on the basis for participating in politics (just like the other guy), especially when we have much more pertinent things to consider - such as who would be better for the country. I mean, you're free to disagree with neoclassical economic theory and back Obama, because naturally he'd be the better candidate in that case. But this? This is not reasonable.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: King on September 05, 2012, 01:18:52 AM
It's wrong when both sides participate it.  I don't understand how that gives Romney the right to win.

Because one person should not be immediately disqualified on the basis for participating in politics (just like the other guy), especially when we have much more pertinent things to consider - such as who would be better for the country. I mean, you're free to disagree with neoclassical economic theory and back Obama, because naturally he'd be the better candidate in that case. But this? This is not reasonable.

He should be disqualified if there's nothing else to him.  Romney is a total zero of a candidate.  I can't emphasize this enough.  Romney has nothing to do with neoclassical economic theory because there is nothing to suggest he has any real affiliations to any theory of anything.  You're projecting your beliefs onto Mitt Romney.

Romney's vague proposals are either nonsense that don't subscribe to any theory or so similar to Obama they are pointless.  Beet has given you plenty of examples where Romney's beliefs are not different from Obama yet you dismiss Barack as political theater.  You've got it wrong.  Romney is the panderer here.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 05, 2012, 01:24:27 AM
Romney's vague proposals are either nonsense that don't subscribe to any theory or so similar to Obama they are pointless.  Beet has given you plenty of examples where Romney's beliefs are not different from Obama yet you dismiss Barack as political theater.  You've got it wrong.  Romney is the panderer here.

Except they aren't at all the same. On important issues like the fiscal cliff and entitlement reform, the two candidates take very different approaches. The only major approach on which they both claim to share the same stance was corporate tax reform, an issue where Obama declined to lead.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: opebo on September 05, 2012, 05:33:30 AM
I am a lone Pub island in a sea of Dems.

You don't belong.  You should move to Arizona, or at least the Inland Empire.  Or get better taste.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on September 05, 2012, 07:28:27 AM
Mother - probably SPD
Father - No idea, either SPD or CDU though.
Maternal grandmother/stepgrandfather - probably NPD
Maternal grandfather - I'd guess CDU
Maternal stepgrandmother - Not sure if she'll be able to go out and vote next year. Seems to be moderate CDU.

Uncle - probably Labour


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Sbane on September 05, 2012, 10:02:26 AM
I am a lone Pub island in a sea of Dems.

You don't belong.  You should move to Arizona, or at least the Inland Empire.  Or get better taste.
I think he was talking about his family. His neighborhood is plenty Republican. So he isn't that alone, until he moves to Silver Lake of course.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Reaganfan on September 05, 2012, 12:44:33 PM
Updated totals:

Romney: 168
Obama: 139


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on September 05, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
Mother: Johnson
Father: Romney
Me (If I could): Johnson

Mothers Mother: Romney
Fathers Mother: Romney

Mothers Sister: Obama
Uncle 1: Obama
Mothers Brother: Obama
Aunt 1: Obama

Fathers Sister: Obama
Uncle 1: Very, very quiet about his own politcs. I would guess Romney  this time around, but I have no idea.

Great Aunt 1: Romney
Great Aunt 2: Romney
Great Aunt 3: Romney
Great Aunt 4: Romney


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Supersonic on September 05, 2012, 02:36:57 PM
Not to interrupt, but how does everyone know who their family voted for so well?

No one in my family ever says who they vote for. Ever. Apparently its 'private'.

I don't know if it's a British thing or not..


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 05, 2012, 02:43:12 PM
Not to interrupt, but how does everyone know who their family voted for so well?

No one in my family ever says who they vote for. Ever. Apparently its 'private'.

I don't know if it's a British thing or not..

No, no, I think that's pretty normal. America is different. Our partisan politics have distinctively lined up with social and cultural cleavages. So you can pretty accurately predict someone's voting pattern without actually talking to them about politics.

There's a very good book out there called The Big Sort (by Bill Bishop), which the Economist gives a one-page summary of here (http://www.economist.com/node/11581447), describing this phenomenon.

That being said, it's probably responsible for why the rhetoric from some of the leftists here can be very shrill. Because the some of them probably don't actually interact with anyone right-of-center in their daily lives. Of course, that can go both ways (as the book shows), but the user demographics of the internet differ from the demographics of the rest of the world.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: opebo on September 05, 2012, 02:46:18 PM
I am a lone Pub island in a sea of Dems.

You don't belong.  You should move to Arizona, or at least the Inland Empire.  Or get better taste.
I think he was talking about his family. His neighborhood is plenty Republican. So he isn't that alone, until he moves to Silver Lake of course.
.

Oh I see.  Yes I always forget about the existence of Republicans in California.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on September 05, 2012, 02:48:15 PM
Mrs. M - Romney.  Daughter - Probably Obama.  The rest - (insert Gary Coleman death point pic here)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: CultureKing on September 05, 2012, 02:49:26 PM
Not to interrupt, but how does everyone know who their family voted for so well?

No one in my family ever says who they vote for. Ever. Apparently its 'private'.

I don't know if it's a British thing or not..

In my family everyone who votes is pretty adamant about their positions.. We don't follow the 'avoid politics' at the dinner table thing very well (meanwhile religion is a non-issue because only one person is religious in my family).


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Niemeyerite on September 05, 2012, 05:36:49 PM
Not to interrupt, but how does everyone know who their family voted for so well?

No one in my family ever says who they vote for. Ever. Apparently its 'private'.

I don't know if it's a British thing or not..

I know how my entire family votes, I even know how my neighbours vote :P. Id's say everyine in my family (in Spain) votes PSOE, with some voting IU, but only 2 or 3. In Brazil, almost everyone votes PSDB/DEM/PP/whoever is the right candidate, with my cousin and one of my aunts voting Green/PSOL.
My neighborhood is full of IU voters, with some socialists and 2 couples voting PP.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Maxwell on September 05, 2012, 06:00:05 PM
If Gary Johnson is not on the ballot, here is my family:

Mom: Barack Obama
Dad: Mitt Romney
Me: Undecided

IF he is,

Mom: Barack Obama
Dad: Gary Johnson
Me: Gary Johnson


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Yelnoc on September 05, 2012, 06:04:06 PM
R


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: angus on September 05, 2012, 07:32:18 PM
Not to interrupt, but how does everyone know who their family voted for so well?

Depends upon your family.  I'm certain my wife is not a US citizen and I'm certain my son has many years till he will be old enough to vote.  Of course, I never discuss politics with them, but I'd be willing to bet my left nut that neither of them vote.

As for my family, growing up, I'd be equally willing to bet that 100 percent of them voted for George McGovern, then for Jimmy Carter, and then for Walter Mondale, etc.  I don't discuss politics with them, but I know my parents were Democrats.  I grew up thinking that Nixon was a dirty word.  Seriously.  And that Reagan was an even dirtier word.  I was so screwed up.  We all get brainwashed like this.  It takes you till you're about 30 years old to figure sh**t out.  Till then, you just basically vote for who your parents voted for.  This is why I voted for Dukakis in 1988 and for Clinton in 1992 and in 1996.  Just didn't know any better.  I'm pretty sure that not all families are like that, but that a majority of them are.  Your parents don't try to harm you.  They love you.  But if they're both Democrats, it just doesn't occur to them that they're brainwashing you when they always badmouth Republicans.  And if they're both Republicans, it just doesn't occur to them that they're brainwasing you when they always badmouth Democrats. 

Now, if one parent is of one party affiliation, and the other parent is of another, it is probably a bit more interesting.  This is how it is with a small minority of people.  I was never in that position, but my son will be.  FWIW, I'm generally centrist but I align slightly with the GOP, so for all practical purposes, my son can think of me as a Republican.  My wife, on the other hand, although neither a registered voter nor a US citizen, is very sympathetic to the communist party, and generally is greatful to the communist party of the PRC for putting her family in a position that one day would enable her to study in the USA and find a nice job in the USA.  So my son will have one parent who is a Republican, more or less, and one parent who is a communist, more or less.  Maybe he and I will discuss politics, at some point, when he's older.  He's already asking questions like, "Daddy, why can't we carry liquids more than four ounces on an airplane?"  And I have to answer honestly, "Because we're a paranoid society, son."  Of course, he then asks me what paranoid means, and I have a tendency to give lengthy answers, and by the end of it he forgets what he asked in the first place, but nevertheless, we have evidence that he is already asking, and I am already answering, political questions.  Maybe he'll be more balanced and less brainwashed than children whose parents were of the same political persuasion. 


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 05, 2012, 08:24:38 PM
My wife, on the other hand, although neither a registered voter nor a US citizen, is very sympathetic to the communist party, and generally is greatful to the communist party of the PRC for putting her family in a position that one day would enable her to study in the USA and find a nice job in the USA.  So my son will have one parent who is a Republican, more or less, and one parent who is a communist, more or less.

That's actually uh...pretty weird. The CPC doesn't really have an ideology besides self-enrichment. The only Chinese person I know who legitimately believes in Marxism-Leninism despises the CPC for "betraying the proletariat". And is strangely pro-American because America helped fight the "revisionist Muscovite Empire".

Also, it is strange that she is married to a US citizen and retains PRC citizenship. From what I've seen, almost all Chinese in America try to shed their PRC citizenship ASAP. It's actually both a relevant and visible trend, because citizenship matters when applying for patents.
ROC citizens usually maintain dual-citizenship, but the PRC has no provisions for such, so most people try to adopt US citizenship ASAP.

It's also consistent with polling: like that Weibo poll where 90% of respondents answered that if they lived on those disputed isles in the news now, they'd rather be ROC, Hong Kong, or Japanese citizens than PRC citizens. I know a naturalized immigrant from China who actually firmly opposes open borders, because she reasons that "All of us in China would move to America" and thought that it'd be a disaster.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: angus on September 05, 2012, 08:47:21 PM
The CPC doesn't really have an ideology besides self-enrichment.

And how does that differ from the GOP?  Or the Democrats?  Or the SPD of Germany?  Or the PAN of Mexico?  Basically, if you can show me someone who is convinced that his party's bosses aren't interested self-enrichment, then I'll show you someone who really has been brainwashed.

Also, it is true that the PRC doesn't allow dual citizenship.  It is one of the few policies of that government that I greatly respect.  I wish ours did not either.  But that's a diatribe for a different thread.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Dr. Cynic on September 05, 2012, 08:52:38 PM
Mom: Obama
Dad: Obama
Uncle: Obama
Uncle: Romney (I'm guessing. He's a Repub, but he defends Obama more than his usual)
Aunt: Doesn't vote. In fact, that's probably for the best. She doesn't have a clue what planet she's on most of the time.

I do have more relatives, but I'm not on close speaking terms really with any of them, so I couldn't begin to guess the others.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: California8429 on September 05, 2012, 10:57:58 PM
Dad: Romney (Democrat)
Mom: Romney
Sister 1: Romney
Sister 2: Romney
Me: Romney probably

Mother's side (Catholic)
Grandpa: Romney
Great Aunt: Obama (her whole family, including herself, lives in Beverly Hills so they are all Obama folk)

Uncle: Undecided (corporate tycoon, has a lot of friends close to Romney)
Aunt: Undecided (big Obama '08)
Cousin 1: lean Obama
Cousin 2: Romney

Uncle: Romney (priest)

Uncle: Romney
Aunt: Romney

Dad's side (Protestant)
Grandma: Romney (Party elite)
Opa: Gary Johnson (Big Paul supporter)

Uncle: Romney
Aunt: Romney

Uncle: Romney
Aunt: Obama


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 後援会 on September 05, 2012, 11:22:58 PM
The CPC doesn't really have an ideology besides self-enrichment.

And how does that differ from the GOP?  Or the Democrats?  Or the SPD of Germany?  Or the PAN of Mexico?

Because the top 50 members of the CPC made more money in 2012 than the entire combined networth of all 535 members of Congress, President Obama, Vice President Biden, and all nine members of the Supreme Court. In a country where the average person makes 1/20th of what the average American makes.

That's your god damned difference.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: LastVoter on September 05, 2012, 11:30:21 PM
Looks like an easy Obama win if all of your family is white and lives in Ohio.
Mother - probably SPD
Father - No idea, either SPD or CDU though.
Maternal grandmother/stepgrandfather - probably NPD
Maternal grandfather - I'd guess CDU
Maternal stepgrandmother - Not sure if she'll be able to go out and vote next year. Seems to be moderate CDU.

Uncle - probably Labour

No Die Linke voters?


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: timothyinMD on September 05, 2012, 11:55:59 PM
This has been a surprisingly interesting post.

Mother: Romney
Sister: Romney
Me: Romney
Harford MD


Mom's side:
Aunt Alice: Obama (San Diego CA)
Aunt Eileen: Obama (Orange CA)
Aunt Ann: Obama (Queens NY)
Aunt Nancy/Uncle Tommy: 2 likely Romney (Broward FL)

Dad's side:
Uncle Bob/Aunt Joan: 2 Romney (Harford MD)
Cousins Ray/Sherry/Rob/Barb: 4 Romney (Harford MD)
Cousins Linda/Bruce/Micah/Ben: 4 Romney (Dorchester MD)
Uncle Pat/Aunt Dot: 2 Obama (York PA)
Cousins Teri/Donna: 2 Obama (York PA)
Uncle Bill/Aunt Ginger: 2 Romney (Harford MD)
Cousin Bill/Beth: 2 Romney (Anne Arundel MD)
Aunt Teresa: Romney (Baltimore MD)
Aunt Lorrie/Uncle Jim: 2 Romney (Baltimore MD)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: All Along The Watchtower on September 06, 2012, 12:07:04 AM
We're Democrats, thank you.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Reaganfan on September 06, 2012, 01:41:18 AM
Updated totals:

Romney: 214
Obama: 158


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: SUSAN CRUSHBONE on September 06, 2012, 04:49:52 AM
Looks like an easy Obama win if all of your family is white and lives in Ohio.
I think he's totalling this thread, not just his own family.
Mother - probably SPD
Father - No idea, either SPD or CDU though.
Maternal grandmother/stepgrandfather - probably NPD
Maternal grandfather - I'd guess CDU
Maternal stepgrandmother - Not sure if she'll be able to go out and vote next year. Seems to be moderate CDU.

Uncle - probably Labour

No Die Linke voters?
Not in a million years.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: opebo on September 07, 2012, 07:23:49 AM
...my son will have ... one parent who is a communist, more or less.

Lucky little chap!  Actually I would say that my parents were 'different' politically, though they voted the same: one was a very bright autodidact who had terrible instincts, who voted Republican from a kind of Goldwatery viewpoint, and the other a person who despite existing in almost perfect ignorance understood politics and voted for 'better reasons' (in the sense that her reasons were more reflective of reality) from purely instinctive motivations.

It worked this way - one could think but was completely deluded, and voted for X for well-thought-out reasons which had no real application to X, while

The other could not understand any intellectual argument, and voted for the same party out of vicious deeply held hatreds, fears, prejudices, and bigotry.

Now, the interesting question is - is this a false dichotomy?


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 07, 2012, 09:21:57 AM
Not to interrupt, but how does everyone know who their family voted for so well?

No one in my family ever says who they vote for. Ever. Apparently its 'private'.

I don't know if it's a British thing or not..

Nobody in my family would ever vote Republican, so that makes things pretty simple.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: AndrewTX on September 07, 2012, 09:34:52 AM
I dunno.. my Dad will vote for Romney, and my mom will probably either vote Romney or Johnson. I don't know about my brother or sister.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: angus on September 07, 2012, 09:45:53 AM
Now, the interesting question is - is this a false dichotomy?

I guess it would be, in the sense that it excludes other options, if you had claimed that there could be no other possibilities.  You didn't make such a claim, though, so it is not a false dichotomy.

It may be more of a false distinction, if you will, depending upon your own views.  I'm sort of Kantian in my thinking about these things, so I see a real distinction between the two.  In my humble opinion, the former is operating on a higher sociological order than the latter.  

My parents may be described by your analysis as well.  My father voted for Democrats because his parents did.  He was actually fairly apolitical, but always voted and even held elected office (two terms city council).  My mother, on the other hand, talked to me at great length about things like public education, workers rights, capital punishment, wealth redistribution, and the like.  She voted for Democrats because she genuinely believed that they were more likely to share her views.  


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: nhmagic on September 07, 2012, 11:11:39 AM
Me: Romney (McCain 2008)
Mom: Romney (McCain 2008)
Mom's BF: Romney (McCain 2008
Brother: Non-voter

Aunt 1: Romney (McCain 2008)
Aunt 2: Undecided, but likely Romney (Non-voter 2008)

Uncle: Undecided, 50/50 Romney Obama, hes union (McCain 2008)
Cousin 1: Romney (McCain 2008)
Cousin 2: Undecided, 50/50 Romney Obama (McCain 2008)

Dad's Side of the Family - Nonvoters


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Peter the Lefty on September 07, 2012, 05:16:38 PM
Mom: Obama
Dad: Obama
Me: Rocky Anderson, if I could

Dad's side:
Grandmother: Obama
Uncle: Obama
Aunt 1: Obama
Aunt 2: Obama
Cousin 1: Obama
Cousin 2: Obama

Mom's side:
Grandmother: Former Republican for Obama
Uncle 1: Former Republican for Obama
Uncle 2: Former Republican for Obama
Cousin 1: Politically apathetic, Obama if she does vote
Cousin 2: Same


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Donerail on September 07, 2012, 05:30:05 PM
If Gary Johnson is not on the ballot, here is my family:

Mom: Barack Obama
Dad: Mitt Romney
Me: Undecided

IF he is,

Mom: Barack Obama
Dad: Gary Johnson
Me: Gary Johnson

He will, but he'll be Gary Johnson (Americans Elect), not Gary Johnson (Libertarian).

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/americans-elect-submits-gov-gary-johnson-to-oklahoma-presidential-ballot (http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/americans-elect-submits-gov-gary-johnson-to-oklahoma-presidential-ballot)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Jerseyrules on September 29, 2012, 04:43:11 PM
Mom and Dad: Romney

Mom's side:
Grandma: Romney
Aunt and Uncle: Romney
Aunt 2: Undecided (Democrat, Obama voter in 08)
Uncle 2: Lean Romney (Democrat, Obama voter in 08)
Aunt 3: probably doesn't give a damn; voted Obama in 08 but has a lot of personal stuff to figure out before she's capable of making a decision like that IMO

Dad's side:
Grandma: Romney
Uncle and Aunt 1: Romney
Uncle 2: Romney
Aunt 2: I'm not sure if she has full citizenship yet; she's Fillipino and has lived here a few years but I'm not sure if she's been naturalized yet, or knows/cares about US politics


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Barnes on September 29, 2012, 05:56:17 PM
Mom: Obama
Dad: Obama
Elder Brother: Obama
Middle Brother: Obama


Maternal Grandmother: Obama

Dad's side: All Obama
Mom's side: Most likely all Romney; my aunt says she's undecided.

We all live in Georgia, with the exception of one of my paternal uncles who lives in Hawaii.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Oldiesfreak1854 on September 29, 2012, 07:11:09 PM
Me: Romney
My Mom: Obama
My Grandma: Romney
My Maternal Aunt: Romney

Just about everyone whose votes I know is voting for Romney, except my mom, who's voting for Obama (she also voted for him in 2008.)  I have another aunt who is a teacher and a liberal for the most part, and though she doesn't like Obama that much, I think she will probably vote for him.  However, I believe she voted for John McCain in 2008, which would be the first time she ever voted for a Republican for president.  My other aunt mentioned above was a very liberal Democrat for many years and voted for all Democrats from 1984-2000.  But after my convincing, and more personal experiences, she has become more conservative.  She voted for George W. Bush in 2004 and McCain in 2008, and she's voting for Romney this year.  As I mentioned, however, she voted Democrat for president in every election before that, starting with 1984.  This is the first presidential election since I have been old enough to vote, but I would have voted for McCain in '08.  One of my cousins (from the first aunt I mentioned) who is also voting for president for the first time is undecided but is leaning Obama because Obama is supposedly "better for teachers."  
As for my mother, her voting patterns have been very erratic (she couldn't stand Clinton).  I believe she voted for Gore in 2000, but I'm not so sure about 2004 (I seem to remember her saying she didn't like John Kerry but her significant other voted for Kerry).  Since then, she has become more and more liberal and was the only member of my immediate family that I know of who voted for Obama.
But, to my knowledge, all Romney except my mom.  (Interstingly enough, most of my family that I know of who could vote voted for Carter over Reagan in 1980, but have been relatively independen-minded, voting for whoever they thought was the best person rather than the best leader.)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Smash255 on September 29, 2012, 10:35:44 PM
Me- Obama
Mom- Obama
Dad- Obama
Sister-Obama
Cousin (who lives with me)- Obama

My parents are in S.C outside Charlotte, my sister is in R.I, my cousin and myself are in NY

Aunt in S.C (down the block form my parents)- Romney
Uncle in S.C (mom's brother down the block from parents)- I think Obma, but not sure
Cousin in N.C- Romney

rest of family not sure


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Politico on September 29, 2012, 11:37:08 PM
I am closeted about my support for Romney when it comes to my family, but I sense there's a strong probability that a few of them will sit this one out. I know getting a good turnout is going to be tough for Obama when some members of my staunchly Democratic family are talking about sitting this one out. These are people who backed Dukakis and Mondale.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: The Mikado on September 29, 2012, 11:50:14 PM
All Obama.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: BaldEagle1991 on October 13, 2012, 10:06:36 PM
My father and I are going for Obama

Mom - Romney

Sister - Third party (she won't tell me who though)

Uncle and all of his family (Father's side) - Romney

My cousins (Mother's side) - Obama

The rest are in the Philippines, Australia, or Canada, so they can't vote. But they prefer Obama over Romney.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on October 14, 2012, 10:34:15 PM
If Gary Johnson is not on the ballot, here is my family:

Mom: Barack Obama
Dad: Mitt Romney
Me: Undecided

IF he is,

Mom: Barack Obama
Dad: Gary Johnson
Me: Gary Johnson

He will, but he'll be Gary Johnson (Americans Elect), not Gary Johnson (Libertarian).

http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/americans-elect-submits-gov-gary-johnson-to-oklahoma-presidential-ballot (http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/americans-elect-submits-gov-gary-johnson-to-oklahoma-presidential-ballot)

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2012/09/gary-johnson-removed-from-oklahoma-ballot/   :(


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Speed of Sound on October 14, 2012, 10:49:15 PM
Me: Undecided, leaning Jill Stein
Father: Barack Obama
Brother: G. Johnson/J. Stein, if he votes (he doesn't actually care, he just enjoys voting not Dem/Rep)
Mother: Doesn't vote, would be centre-right Independent/Rep if she followed politics.
Grandfather: Barack Obama
Uncle: Doesn't vote, would vote Mitt Romney or Gary Johnson (Economic conservative).

(No color disrespect to Johnson, the yellow was just really illegible and painful to the eyes)


Title: The Naso Institute for Family Questions
Post by: Mr. Morden on October 14, 2012, 10:52:45 PM
Does (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=98455.0) your family (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=112146.15) know about (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=155944.0) voting? (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=156142.0)


Title: Re: The Naso Institute for Family Questions
Post by: Speed of Sound on October 15, 2012, 12:33:15 AM
Does (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=98455.0) your family (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=112146.15) know about (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=155944.0) voting? (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=156142.0)

Our Forum Community is....a special community. lol

As to the actual answer (not that you were looking for it), almost all of my family members who don't vote are conservatives so....I never discourage anyone voting, but I don't go knocking on their door twice on election day. ;)


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Beet on December 03, 2012, 01:12:08 AM
My wife, on the other hand, although neither a registered voter nor a US citizen, is very sympathetic to the communist party, and generally is greatful to the communist party of the PRC for putting her family in a position that one day would enable her to study in the USA and find a nice job in the USA.  So my son will have one parent who is a Republican, more or less, and one parent who is a communist, more or less.

Just because she's sympathetic to the CPC or what they're doing over there currently, it doesn't mean she's a communist. The 'Communist' part has become name-only. I know a lot of Chinese who are sympathetic to the party, but their 'American' ideology would best be described as 'indifferent' or cynical of all sides.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Snowstalker Mk. II on December 03, 2012, 12:50:49 PM
So what happened was...

Dad: Obama
Mom: Obama
Sister: Obama

Dad was the only one who didn't vote straight-ticket Democrat; he voted D for everything except Congress, where he voted for some random independent.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: fezzyfestoon on December 03, 2012, 01:13:27 PM
Mom regrets voting for Romney, Dad voted for a friend, and my brother voted for Obama.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: Snowstalker Mk. II on December 03, 2012, 08:57:28 PM

Uh, clarify?


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: fezzyfestoon on December 03, 2012, 10:26:38 PM

Oh, you know, just his pal Barack. He makes a habit of making agreements with friends or neighbors to vote for each other for President, which I actually quite like the idea of.


Title: Re: How's your family voting?
Post by: TNF on December 04, 2012, 01:32:18 AM
Paternal Grandfather: Unknown
Paternal Grandmother: Romney (McCain)
Father: Not voting (Didn't vote)
Stepmother: Not voting (Didn't vote)
Half-sister: Too young
Half-sister: Too young

Maternal Grandfather: Obama (Obama)
Maternal Grandmother: Not voting (Didn't vote)
Mother: Stein (Nader)
Stepfather: Johnson (Barr)
Stepsister: Romney (McCain)
Stepbrother: Obama (McCain)
Me: Obama (Too young)
Stepbrother: Too young
Brother: Too young

Ex-Girlfriend: Obama (Too young)
Current Girlfriend: Obama (Obama)

Updated this. My parents essentially voted Green and Libertarian as protest votes, not out of any real desire towards Stein or Johnson. They just don't like Obama and like Romney even less.