Talk Elections

Election Archive => 2012 Elections => Topic started by: Politico on October 04, 2012, 11:48:08 PM



Title: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Politico on October 04, 2012, 11:48:08 PM
When will the president man up and take responsibility for at least the last year or two? For a change, Obama should be more like Romney and take responsibility:

(CNN) — Mitt Romney said he was “completely wrong” when he argued that nearly half of Americans were “victims” and dependent on government.

The admission came Thursday as the GOP presidential candidate sought to clarify his controversial “47%”
comments.

“Clearly in a campaign with hundreds if not thousands of speeches and question-and-answer sessions, now and then you’re going to say something that doesn’t come out right,” Romney said on Fox News. “In this case, I said something that’s just completely wrong.”

On Fox News Thursday night, Romney was asked what he would have said if the president had brought up the controversial statements–which is when the GOP nominee went as far as to say he was “wrong.”
He then argued that, if elected, he would represent all Americans, not just half.

“I absolutely believe, however, that my life has shown that I care about 100% and that’s been demonstrated throughout my life. And this whole campaign is about the 100%. When I become president, it will be helping the 100%.”

Source: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/04/romney-on-47-comments-i-was-completely-wrong/


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on October 04, 2012, 11:49:52 PM
The 47% was not a gaffe... he didn't misspeak... there was a clear stream of consciousness and a line of argument.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Politico on October 04, 2012, 11:53:30 PM
The 47% was not a gaffe... he didn't misspeak... there was a clear stream of consciousness and a line of argument.

Romney admits he was wrong, which takes character to do. He misspoke. We have 8% unemployment, 23 million people out of work, from 32 million to 47 million people on food stamps, and the first and only presidential term of four years of trillion dollar deficits. Which is worse? Who wants four more years of the last four years?


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Yank2133 on October 04, 2012, 11:55:24 PM
His credibility is already shot.

No matter what he says about the 47%,  everyone is going to assume he is simply pandering and telling them what they want to hear.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: DrScholl on October 04, 2012, 11:56:12 PM
He didn't misspeak, he was speaking to a room full of donors and said exactly what he meant.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Speed of Sound on October 04, 2012, 11:57:54 PM
He had two options:

1) Apologize right off the bat.

2) Grit it out all the way to the end.

He chose neither of those. This is the worst possible way to go. Nothing quite like the flip-flop of surrender on an issue to make independent voters shake their heads.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Politico on October 04, 2012, 11:59:39 PM

Last night, the Governor laid out a vision for the next four years. It is the president who failed to defend the last four years, let alone set down a vision for the future. Last night proved that the Romney that Obama keeps talking about is a figment of the Obama campaign's imagination.

But some of you completely missed this because you're blinded by partisanship and an emotional connection with a politician who was, in a word, hype.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Likely Voter on October 05, 2012, 12:08:59 AM
This is why Team Obama decided not to hit Romney with the 47% last night. They knew Romney would be ready for it and would use it as an opportunity to show contrition and humanity. Being that Obama didn't give him the chance he went on Hannity to do it.

I'm not saying that Obama's prevent defense strat was good last night, but in this one case they probably made the right call. The damage of the 47% has been shown in the polls. Bringing it up would only have given Romney this chance to prove he is human.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on October 05, 2012, 12:15:09 AM
He didn't just misspeak. Seems like he's admitting as much now - that he was just plain wrong on this. He needed to say this the day after.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: 5280 on October 05, 2012, 12:17:19 AM
I think people need to move (liberals especially) 'forward' and drop the entire subject about the 47% and 53%, this sh*t is getting ridiculous. The country has more important things to worry about.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: ○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└ on October 05, 2012, 12:36:11 AM
Everything Romney says that he doesn't want you to hear is him misspeaking?


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Antonio the Sixth on October 05, 2012, 01:52:14 AM
I think people need to move (liberals especially) 'forward' and drop the entire subject about the 47% and 53%, this sh*t is getting ridiculous. The country has more important things to worry about.

Yeah, right... In any normal country, a candidate saying he doesn't give a sh*t about half of the country (especially when it happens to be the half who suffers the most) would be politically dead, to the point of being forced to drop out in order to avoid the humiliation of a 30%/70% debacle.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Chaddyr23 on October 05, 2012, 01:55:27 AM
Mitt Romney's definitely apologized for more things than he claims Barack Obama ever did apologize for. It's okay, the genie's out of the bottle already.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: jeron on October 05, 2012, 02:16:56 AM
Too little too late


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY on October 05, 2012, 04:58:32 AM
Bullsh**t.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Indy Texas on October 05, 2012, 06:03:52 AM
He sure took his time taking responsibility.

Yet another case of Mitt shaking the ol' Etch-a-Sketch. It's easy to do that when you don't have any core values to build your political beliefs around.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Snowstalker Mk. II on October 05, 2012, 06:40:13 AM
The 47% was not a gaffe... he didn't misspeak... there was a clear stream of consciousness and a line of argument.

Romney admits he was wrong, which takes character to do. He misspoke. We have 8% unemployment, 23 million people out of work, from 32 million to 47 million people on food stamps, and the first and only presidential term of four years of trillion dollar deficits. Which is worse? Who wants four more years of the last four years?

You know what? I'm sick of your crap. You used to have some entertainment value due to your absurdity, but this is the last straw. You contribute absolutely nothing to this forum. You have effectively made this exact post dozens, if not hundreds, of times. All you do is vomit talking points or whatever Romney said in the debate, and then get people to argue with you. But it's not worth it. You are the dictionary definition of white noise. When you say something not related to vomiting stats Romney told you or flailing about "hype" and "Chicago politics", maybe I'll reconsider. But for now you are doubtlessly the worst thing about this board.

But you know what? Stick around. If you don't run away with your tail between your legs, I'd love to see your reaction when Obama wins next month.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: memphis on October 05, 2012, 08:01:59 AM
Is there anything upon which this valueless cipher won't flip flop?


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Politico on October 05, 2012, 08:09:18 AM
He sure took his time taking responsibility.

We're still waiting for the president to take responsibility for at least the last year or two.

Romney misspoke. Under Obama's leadership, we have 23 million people out of work, trillion dollar deficits each of the last four years, and 47 million people on food stamps. Which is worse? When somebody honestly answers this, then they can slam Romney for being man enough to take responsibility for his mistakes.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: BlueSwan on October 05, 2012, 09:00:24 AM
He had two options:

1) Apologize right off the bat.

2) Grit it out all the way to the end.

He chose neither of those. This is the worst possible way to go. Nothing quite like the flip-flop of surrender on an issue to make independent voters shake their heads.
This is exactly right. Apologizing NOW accomplishes nothing. Romney shot himself in the foot there (again).


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on October 05, 2012, 09:09:53 AM
Again, Romney did not mispeak, he did not fluff a line - he was clear on what he meant and in fact he doubled-down on the message suggests that...

Romney is making a desperate scramble for the centre - but what was said (and backed up through Romney AND the entire GOP leadership after the fact) cannot be unsaid.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Torie on October 05, 2012, 09:14:26 AM
Clearly Mittens misspoke because he made a factual error. It was not just an ideological perspective. Obviously, millions of folks who don't pay income taxes will be voting for Mittens. Heck the correlation between wealth and partisan affiliation is a weak as it has ever been in the Fruited Plain - certainly in my lifetime at least, and my parents' lifetime as well.  Thank you.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: memphis on October 05, 2012, 09:51:54 AM
Clearly Mittens misspoke because he made a factual error. It was not just an ideological perspective. Obviously, millions of folks who don't pay income taxes will be voting for Mittens. Heck the correlation between wealth and partisan affiliation is a weak as it has ever been in the Fruited Plain - certainly in my lifetime at least, and my parents' lifetime as well.  Thank you.
A factual error? So, in non-lawyer speak, you're claiming he was lying? Or do you think he was so misinformed to believe something that, as you point out, is wildly off target.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: You kip if you want to... on October 05, 2012, 09:54:07 AM
Obama should throw out another ad about it.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Torie on October 05, 2012, 09:59:41 AM
Clearly Mittens misspoke because he made a factual error. It was not just an ideological perspective. Obviously, millions of folks who don't pay income taxes will be voting for Mittens. Heck the correlation between wealth and partisan affiliation is a weak as it has ever been in the Fruited Plain - certainly in my lifetime at least, and my parents' lifetime as well.  Thank you.
A factual error? So, in non-lawyer speak, you're claiming he was lying? Or do you think he was so misinformed to believe something that, as you point out, is wildly off target.

He just had brain lock for a moment. Have you ever said anything that just came out wrong? His larger point that the more folks there are dependent on government largess, the stronger the headwinds for a Pub, is true - at least until insolvency ensues.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on October 05, 2012, 10:20:00 AM
Can the patently ridiculous piece of Newspeak that is 'misspeaking' please disappear down the memory hole, ideally yesterday?


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: memphis on October 05, 2012, 02:34:41 PM
Clearly Mittens misspoke because he made a factual error. It was not just an ideological perspective. Obviously, millions of folks who don't pay income taxes will be voting for Mittens. Heck the correlation between wealth and partisan affiliation is a weak as it has ever been in the Fruited Plain - certainly in my lifetime at least, and my parents' lifetime as well.  Thank you.
A factual error? So, in non-lawyer speak, you're claiming he was lying? Or do you think he was so misinformed to believe something that, as you point out, is wildly off target.

He just had brain lock for a moment. Have you ever said anything that just came out wrong? His larger point that the more folks there are dependent on government largess, the stronger the headwinds for a Pub, is true - at least until insolvency ensues.
Rick Perry's oops was a brain lock. And if you'll look up the thread on it from way back, I defended him on it. Brain chemistry is a funny thing. Mitt's statement was not an off the cuff remark or in any way a misrepresntation of the GOP position. They've been making the same claim for a long time now. OMGZ half of people don't pay taxes. Nevermid that this is not true. The problem with telling different people different things is that sooner or later the truth comes out and you look like a fool. And that must be what the fuss is all about,  because, again, it's a standard GOP talking point. And we're all benefeciaries of government largess, just as we are all contributers. These days, it just isn't possible to live in a cabin on Walden Pond.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Torie on October 05, 2012, 05:23:53 PM
Can the patently ridiculous piece of Newspeak that is 'misspeaking' please disappear down the memory hole, ideally yesterday?

No, because in this case it is true - Mittens misspoke. Surely Mittens knows, and knew then, that not everybody who does not pay income taxes will be voting for Obama. Now, you may think what he said was a nasty slam on those who do not pay income taxes (like retired old people and young folks in college, and those working at a low wage rate), but that is another matter, and of course what hurt him politically.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck on October 05, 2012, 05:25:58 PM
When will the president man up and take responsibility for at least the last year or two? For a change, Obama should be more like Romney and take responsibility:

(CNN) — Mitt Romney said he was “completely wrong” when he argued that nearly half of Americans were “victims” and dependent on government.

The admission came Thursday as the GOP presidential candidate sought to clarify his controversial “47%”
comments.

“Clearly in a campaign with hundreds if not thousands of speeches and question-and-answer sessions, now and then you’re going to say something that doesn’t come out right,” Romney said on Fox News. “In this case, I said something that’s just completely wrong.”

On Fox News Thursday night, Romney was asked what he would have said if the president had brought up the controversial statements–which is when the GOP nominee went as far as to say he was “wrong.”
He then argued that, if elected, he would represent all Americans, not just half.

“I absolutely believe, however, that my life has shown that I care about 100% and that’s been demonstrated throughout my life. And this whole campaign is about the 100%. When I become president, it will be helping the 100%.”

Source: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/04/romney-on-47-comments-i-was-completely-wrong/

Are you an implant from the Romney campaign?  Honestly, because if your posts are for real you are the most deluded individual I've ever seen.  


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: opebo on October 05, 2012, 05:30:39 PM
Can the patently ridiculous piece of Newspeak that is 'misspeaking' please disappear down the memory hole, ideally yesterday?

No, because in this case it is true - Mittens misspoke. Surely Mittens knows, and knew then, that not everybody who does not pay income taxes will be voting for Obama.

Generalizing to make a point is not 'misspeaking'.  He said what he believed, and it was largely true in the sense that yes, the vast majority of the most severely oppressed will not vote for him.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Torie on October 05, 2012, 07:36:56 PM
Can the patently ridiculous piece of Newspeak that is 'misspeaking' please disappear down the memory hole, ideally yesterday?

No, because in this case it is true - Mittens misspoke. Surely Mittens knows, and knew then, that not everybody who does not pay income taxes will be voting for Obama.

Generalizing to make a point is not 'misspeaking'.  He said what he believed, and it was largely true in the sense that yes, the vast majority of the most severely oppressed will not vote for him.

If I had to wildly guess, about 40% of those who do not pay income tax and vote, will be voting for Mittens.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Fmr President & Senator Polnut on October 05, 2012, 07:47:53 PM
Basic point is, he should have apologised for it from day one, not permitting the basic falsehoods to become the GOP talking points. He said it was 'inelegantly stated' not 'wrong'...


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Beet on October 05, 2012, 07:51:17 PM
Can we just insert some facts into this discussion- as in, what Romney really said? Let me just paste the actual text of the quote, if you will.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax…[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. "

Am I wrong in reading that Romney said that there are 47 percent of people with a series of characteristics, which include:
(a) they're dependent on government
(b) they believe they're victims
(c) they believe government has a responsibility to care for them
(d) they believe they're entitled to health care, food, housing, and "you-name-it"
(e) they will vote for Obama
(f) they pay no income tax

It seems to me that Romney's statements were quite clear. It seems to me that he was speaking emotionally, and got carried away when he mentioned the income tax portion. He was not saying that people who don't pay income tax are all for Obama. He was saying that 47 of people who will never vote for him pay no income tax. Logically, it's absurd, but it was more about emotion and sentiment, even though he is using the language of facts. Does that make sense?


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Torie on October 05, 2012, 07:56:41 PM
Beet, 47% don't pay income tax. Connect the dots.

What Mittens was getting at, was those who game the government rather than sweat for a living won't vote for him really. The "gamer" percentage number is far lower of course - and some of those will be voting for Mittens too in fact who don't like Obama for whatever reason. The whole thing was a total cf.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on October 05, 2012, 07:57:20 PM
No, because in this case it is true - Mittens misspoke.

No, he said something stupid - and inadvertently revealing about his worldview - which is not the same thing at all.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on October 05, 2012, 07:58:28 PM

Mitt Romney never did that.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Torie on October 05, 2012, 08:02:57 PM
No, because in this case it is true - Mittens misspoke.

No, he said something stupid - and inadvertently revealing about his worldview - which is not the same thing at all.

We just won't agree on this one Al, other than that both of us found it to be a statement as to which we don't subscribe. I don't think Mittens begrudges old folks living off their SS, etc, or as he said, helping those who are physically unable to work, and so on.

Just who needs more tough love out there is probably an area where our Venn diagrams are not co-extensive, and just possibly don't intersect at all outside the plutocrat cohort, but that is off topic.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Torie on October 05, 2012, 08:04:02 PM

 Nope, and neither did you I suspect, nor I, nor Obama for that matter.

Are you impishly suggesting Mittens is a gamer?  That opens up a whole new field - mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the biggest gamer of them all? :P


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on October 05, 2012, 08:09:41 PM
About 47% do not pay net income tax, and about 47% in polls are non-swing votes in favor of Obama. Romney conflated the two.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Torie on October 05, 2012, 08:13:48 PM
About 47% do not pay net income tax, and about 47% in polls are non-swing votes in favor of Obama. Romney conflated the two.

Surely his mind is more supple than that. You have made the biggest slam on Mittens yet.  Only a Biden type could really think in such silly erroneous simplistic terms. :)

Nice and pithy and well phrased post by the way.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Beet on October 05, 2012, 08:46:43 PM
Beet, 47% don't pay income tax. Connect the dots.

What Mittens was getting at, was those who game the government rather than sweat for a living won't vote for him really. The "gamer" percentage number is far lower of course - and some of those will be voting for Mittens too in fact who don't like Obama for whatever reason. The whole thing was a total cf.

Errr-- aren't the more obvious "dots" when someone says that 47% won't vote for him, that it is taken to mean Obama has a floor of 47%? If I say that "wow, these refinery explosions in California mean by premium gas prices are $6.66", I am talking about a financial subject. I am not thinking about the Bible just because it also happens to include a number with the same three digits, even if I mention that later.

There are no insinuations here. What Romney made a series of simple declarative assertions, clearly and in plain English. There is no need for anyone to translate anything. Or is that now too much to handle as well?


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Politico on October 05, 2012, 11:34:03 PM
Beet, 47% don't pay income tax. Connect the dots.

What Mittens was getting at, was those who game the government rather than sweat for a living won't vote for him really. The "gamer" percentage number is far lower of course - and some of those will be voting for Mittens too in fact who don't like Obama for whatever reason. The whole thing was a total cf.

Yeah, Romney misspoke any way you slice or dice it.

Romney should have generalized instead of sticking a 47% figure with his comments. The real number is probably more like 20-30% (e.g., Obama Phone Lady (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio), etc.), but it is impossible to know for sure.

That said, Romney is a good person who cares about 100% of the country. He will be a president for 100% even if half of the 100% do not back him.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: anvi on October 05, 2012, 11:53:18 PM
Mitt Romney's political history tells me two basic things.  He is smart enough to have considerable investment and sales skills and some decent governing skills, but during a campaign, he will say anything he has to in order to win.  In this instance, he didn't misspeak, he didn't have a brain lock.  He said a mean-spirited thing at a donor function to pull some more money out of pockets because he thought it would appeal to his audience, many of whom probably relate to the idea that the CEO of a company (him as president) only has a responsibility to the shareholders in the company (the taxpayers).  Except that the government isn't a company, and his characterization of people who don't pay taxes was both absurd and demeaning.  Does he really believe it?  I haven't the slightest earthly idea what Mitt Romney really believes, and listening to him talk over extended periods of time has never helped me figure it out either.  Now he says it was "completely wrong." I agree with that in part.  But the other part is that it was totally asinine.        


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Cobbler on October 06, 2012, 02:03:56 PM
I agree with Anvi's post with regards to this whole 47% thing. I felt like odds were, he was saying things that would appeal to the wealthy donors he was speaking to. I'm not entirely sure why people are saying that in front of donors whose money his campaign needs, that it was a moment where he is actually saying what he "clearly believes." He's still campaigning in that room.

He has a history of saying what he thinks the audience wants to hear.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Lincoln Republican on October 06, 2012, 02:42:37 PM
Mitt said he was wrong, and that he would be the President for 100% of Americans.

You will just have to trust Mitt on this one.



Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Politico on October 06, 2012, 02:57:44 PM
Mitt said he was wrong, and that he would be the President for 100% of Americans.

You will just have to trust Mitt on this one.



Yeah, and I would just add that Mitt has spent countless hours and resources in volunteer activities over the past forty years. He did not do any of this volunteering for political purposes, which is why he refuses to highlight it for political points today.

Romney IS a savvy numbers guy and an exceptional businessman, but he is also a caring person who hates to see anybody struggle, let alone struggle and think they are dependent upon the government when they are not.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: All Along The Watchtower on October 06, 2012, 05:17:27 PM
Clearly Mittens misspoke because he made a factual error. It was not just an ideological perspective. Obviously, millions of folks who don't pay income taxes will be voting for Mittens. Heck the correlation between wealth and partisan affiliation is a weak as it has ever been in the Fruited Plain - certainly in my lifetime at least, and my parents' lifetime as well.  Thank you.
A factual error? So, in non-lawyer speak, you're claiming he was lying? Or do you think he was so misinformed to believe something that, as you point out, is wildly off target.

He just had brain lock for a moment. Have you ever said anything that just came out wrong? His larger point that the more folks there are dependent on government largess, the stronger the headwinds for a Pub, is true - at least until insolvency ensues.

Everybody is dependent on the government, in some form or another. "Rugged individualism" is a myth that has largely been manufactured in recent decade to justify redistributing wealth from the working and middle classes to the rich and powerful. And besides, there are tons of lower or middle class people (most of them white) who have taken full advantage of government assistance, yet vote Republican because they don't want "Other" people to get the same benefits that they themselves enjoy.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Torie on October 06, 2012, 05:24:03 PM
Clearly Mittens misspoke because he made a factual error. It was not just an ideological perspective. Obviously, millions of folks who don't pay income taxes will be voting for Mittens. Heck the correlation between wealth and partisan affiliation is a weak as it has ever been in the Fruited Plain - certainly in my lifetime at least, and my parents' lifetime as well.  Thank you.
A factual error? So, in non-lawyer speak, you're claiming he was lying? Or do you think he was so misinformed to believe something that, as you point out, is wildly off target.

He just had brain lock for a moment. Have you ever said anything that just came out wrong? His larger point that the more folks there are dependent on government largess, the stronger the headwinds for a Pub, is true - at least until insolvency ensues.

Everybody is dependent on the government, in some form or another. "Rugged individualism" is a myth that has largely been manufactured in recent decade to justify redistributing wealth from the working and middle classes to the rich and powerful. And besides, there are tons of lower or middle class people (most of them white) who have taken full advantage of government assistance, yet vote Republican because they don't want "Other" people to get the same benefits that they themselves enjoy.

I actually largely agree with this, although the way I would phrase the reverse Robin Hood thing, is that the rich and the powerful and those in neighborhoods adjacent are the biggest welfare queens of them all. That includes myself. I have probably received more government largess vis a vis the pension plan laws, the tax code past when you could write off real estate depreciation against ordinary income, the farm subsidies, the housing rehabilitation subsidies, Prop 13, and on and on, than the rest of you combined I suspect. Thank heavens there are not too many of them/us!


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on October 06, 2012, 06:33:52 PM
I agree with Anvi's post with regards to this whole 47% thing. I felt like odds were, he was saying things that would appeal to the wealthy donors he was speaking to. I'm not entirely sure why people are saying that in front of donors whose money his campaign needs, that it was a moment where he is actually saying what he "clearly believes." He's still campaigning in that room.

He has a history of saying what he thinks the audience wants to hear.

That's precisely why altho I had hoped to be able to support Romney after he won the primaries, I ultimately was unable to do so.   Romney is altogether too eager to shift what he says to fit his audience. If I didn't know better I'd think his last name was Rorschach instead of Romney since he tries so hard to be an ink blot in which people can see what they want to see.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Brittain33 on October 06, 2012, 06:40:34 PM
anvi is right, he neither misspoke nor revealed his inner worldview. He was telling these people what he believed they were looking for in the leadership of the country. And whether or not he believes it, it's the kind of thing his Republican allies in Congress would expect him to act upon as President, which he would do to some extent.

This is possible because he has very little empathy so has nothing holding him back from making baseless smears like this--it's just business.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: Politico on October 07, 2012, 12:06:05 AM
If I didn't know better I'd think his last name was Rorschach instead of Romney since he tries so hard to be an ink blot in which people can see what they want to see.

*Takes off the partisan hat and puts on the policy hat*

I hate to say it, or at least be so blunt about it, but this is the type of leader that America thrives on. Most of America loves BS, loves hearing what they want to hear, which is why most of us loved The King of BS AKA Bill Clinton (e.g., "When I was in England I experimented with marijuana a time or two -- and didn't like it -- and didn't inhale and never tried inhaling again"). Give us a president who thrives on BS and is open and honest about it, somebody like Clinton, and confidence soars. Give us a Debbie Downer, somebody like Carter, and confidence tanks. As we all know, confidence matters in an economy.

Should it be this way? Not necessarily. But there is no changing it. We might as well embrace it, and give the people what they demand. Restore confidence, and thrive as a result.

Ultimately, what matters is the bottom-line: A growing economy where most people are seeing their incomes go up, and therefore their overall happiness go up. We can achieve these results with Romney's leadership, policies and, yes, his confidence-boosting Rorschach calculus.


Title: Re: Romney Takes Responsibility for Misspeaking (47% Gaffe)
Post by: True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자) on October 08, 2012, 12:58:31 AM
If I didn't know better I'd think his last name was Rorschach instead of Romney since he tries so hard to be an ink blot in which people can see what they want to see.

*Takes off the partisan hat and puts on the policy hat*

I hate to say it, or at least be so blunt about it, but this is the type of leader that America thrives on. Most of America loves BS, loves hearing what they want to hear, which is why most of us loved The King of BS AKA Bill Clinton (e.g., "When I was in England I experimented with marijuana a time or two -- and didn't like it -- and didn't inhale and never tried inhaling again"). Give us a president who thrives on BS and is open and honest about it, somebody like Clinton, and confidence soars. Give us a Debbie Downer, somebody like Carter, and confidence tanks. As we all know, confidence matters in an economy.

Should it be this way? Not necessarily. But there is no changing it. We might as well embrace it, and give the people what they demand. Restore confidence, and thrive as a result.

Ultimately, what matters is the bottom-line: A growing economy where most people are seeing their incomes go up, and therefore their overall happiness go up. We can achieve these results with Romney's leadership, policies and, yes, his confidence-boosting Rorschach calculus.

You're conflating Romney's style with his lack of substance.  Granted, there is often considerable overlap, which is a major reason we're in the mess we're in.  I've seen nothing from the man to make me think he will do better, and I have plenty of reasons to fear he will do worse, especially in foreign policy.