Talk Elections

General Politics => International General Discussion => Topic started by: dead0man on May 13, 2014, 11:43:43 PM



Title: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: dead0man on May 13, 2014, 11:43:43 PM
BBC link (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27388289)
Quote
A top EU court has ruled Google must amend some search results at the request of ordinary people in a test of the so-called "right to be forgotten".

The European Union Court of Justice said links to "irrelevant" and outdated data should be erased on request.

The case was brought by a Spanish man who complained that an auction notice of his repossessed home on Google's search results infringed his privacy.

Google said the ruling was "disappointing".

Backers of the "right to be forgotten" are celebrating this ruling. EU Commissioner Viviane Reding has called it "a clear victory for the protection of personal data of Europeans".

But the judgement could have huge consequences for anyone who publishes material online about individuals, and they will urgently be asking their lawyers exactly what it means.

Can anyone who does not like an old story about them simply demand that it is wiped away? That does appear to be the case - the ruling says the rights of the individual are paramount when it comes to their control over their personal data, although there is a public interest defence when it comes to people in public life.

Google, having won at earlier stages of this legal battle, is both surprised and furious at this outcome. But it isn't clear that the search firm can do anything about it.

<snip>
I agree with Google, this is unworkable, will no doubt be abused (mostly by the wealthy) and just seems silly to this American.  So if somebody takes a picture of you doing something stupid, you can ask the court to have Google remove the picture from their searches, because it would be illegal to ask the person that took the picture to remove it....yeah, makes no sense.


(curious to see who and how this is defended)


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Snowstalker Mk. II on May 14, 2014, 10:09:09 AM
I don't trust Google with my personal online data any more than I trust the government with it.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: angus on May 14, 2014, 11:28:36 AM
Censorship isn't just for the Chinese, apparently.  This Spanish guy should be careful, because he's probably going to end up with far more than he bargained for.  Bad precedent, imho.

()


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: dead0man on May 15, 2014, 12:01:40 AM
None of our Euros have an opinion on this?  Perhaps you're appropriately embarrassed?


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on May 15, 2014, 08:45:08 AM
None of our Euros have an opinion on this?  Perhaps you're appropriately embarrassed?

I wholeheartedly endorse the court's decision as a huge victory in the fight for the protection of data privacy.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: ingemann on May 15, 2014, 01:42:59 PM
None of our Euros have an opinion on this?  Perhaps you're appropriately embarrassed?

You know I find your Stockholm Syndrome toward BB fascinating.

As for this case it's not a big deal. You more or less have to sue search engines for them to remove these information, and there they major difference between USA and most of the rest of the World in. Outside USA it's a major investment to sue someone, the compensation when you sue are smaller, so it's very rare to see a lawyer willing to sue against getting part of the compensation, so this is expensive for the plaintiff, so this are unlikely to be very expensive for Search Engines.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Lief 🗽 on May 15, 2014, 02:45:40 PM
Wait, don't you libertarian types support privacy rights?


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Franzl on May 15, 2014, 03:37:52 PM
None of our Euros have an opinion on this?  Perhaps you're appropriately embarrassed?

Embarrassment would be a peculiar reaction.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Deus Naturae on May 15, 2014, 03:53:29 PM
None of our Euros have an opinion on this?  Perhaps you're appropriately embarrassed?

Embarrassment would be a peculiar reaction.
Really? You aren't embarrassed about the fact that your government has made it illegal for search engines to display certain forms of information?


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Deus Naturae on May 15, 2014, 03:57:42 PM
I don't trust Google with my personal online data any more than I trust the government with it.
Google doesn't own any personal data (well, it may keep track of your search history, but that has nothing to do with this case). It just displays links to websites. I doubt you'd support this decision if the EU court had ruled that the Socialist Worker was full of "outdated" information and couldn't be linked to by Google.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: PiMp DaDdy FitzGerald on May 15, 2014, 03:59:54 PM
None of our Euros have an opinion on this?  Perhaps you're appropriately embarrassed?

Embarrassment would be a peculiar reaction.
Really? You aren't embarrassed about the fact that your government has made it illegal for search engines to display certain forms of information?
By that logic you would be opposed to Child Porn bans. After all, it is the government making it illegal for search engines to display certain forms of information.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: dead0man on May 16, 2014, 01:09:45 AM
None of our Euros have an opinion on this?  Perhaps you're appropriately embarrassed?

You know I find your Stockholm Syndrome toward BB fascinating.
I have no idea what this means.
Quote
As for this case it's not a big deal. You more or less have to sue search engines for them to remove these information, and there they major difference between USA and most of the rest of the World in. Outside USA it's a major investment to sue someone, the compensation when you sue are smaller, so it's very rare to see a lawyer willing to sue against getting part of the compensation, so this is expensive for the plaintiff, so this are unlikely to be very expensive for Search Engines.
You are correct on all counts.  It is way to easy to sue in the US and this will only be used/abused by the wealthy.  Hopefully anyone (else*) that tries will have the Striesand effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striesand_effect) happen to them.


*Google Mario Costeja González (https://www.google.com/search?q=Mario+Costeja+Gonz%C3%A1lez&rlz=1C1ASUC_enUS570US570&oq=Mario+Costeja+Gonz%C3%A1lez&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61.739j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8)


This isn't a win for "privacy".


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on May 16, 2014, 02:43:12 AM
Folks, we must recognize the fact that there's an almost insurmountable cultural divide between Americans and Europeans on the issue which we won't be able to solve in this thread. Europeans want data protection and privacy rights, Americans freedom of information and transparency. That's simply how it is.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Franzl on May 16, 2014, 03:18:57 AM
Folks, we must recognize the fact that there's an almost insurmountable cultural divide between Americans and Europeans on the issue which we won't be able to solve in this thread. Europeans want data protection and privacy rights, Americans freedom of information and transparency. That's simply how it is.

That's the issue. I could start a thread asking how embarrassed Americans are that almost anyone can walk into a gun shop and buy a semi-automatic weapon, but I doubt a majority find that as embarrassing as I would.

But it's another case of culture being so different that it's not really worth debating anymore, as Europeans and Americans just aren't going to agree.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Niemeyerite on May 16, 2014, 04:56:59 AM
None of our Euros have an opinion on this?  Perhaps you're appropriately embarrassed?

You know I find your Stockholm Syndrome toward BB fascinating.
I have no idea what this means.
Quote
As for this case it's not a big deal. You more or less have to sue search engines for them to remove these information, and there they major difference between USA and most of the rest of the World in. Outside USA it's a major investment to sue someone, the compensation when you sue are smaller, so it's very rare to see a lawyer willing to sue against getting part of the compensation, so this is expensive for the plaintiff, so this are unlikely to be very expensive for Search Engines.
You are correct on all counts.  It is way to easy to sue in the US and this will only be used/abused by the wealthy.  Hopefully anyone (else*) that tries will have the Striesand effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striesand_effect) happen to them.


*Google Mario Costeja González (https://www.google.com/search?q=Mario+Costeja+Gonz%C3%A1lez&rlz=1C1ASUC_enUS570US570&oq=Mario+Costeja+Gonz%C3%A1lez&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i61.739j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8)


This isn't a win for "privacy".

Yes, it is. This is the kind of reasoning some journalists used here against Mario Costeja, but he said he knew that and that he doesn't care about it if he manages to win the case (and he won). Because, you know, now he isn't the criminal whose name is in google, now he's the man who managed to beat a giant,, a kind of hero for many Spanish who, like me, are libertarian-esque ;)


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: dead0man on May 16, 2014, 05:03:02 AM
Except now a LOT more people know about his embarrassing past and will still know it if they search Google.  What exactly did he accomplish?


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: dead0man on May 16, 2014, 07:44:41 AM
He accomplished a bad law, he didn't accomplish his goal of having his embarrassing past erased.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: dead0man on May 16, 2014, 08:55:10 AM
You don't think the same thing is going to happen every time a rich guy tries to get a link removed from every search engine in the world?


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: freefair on May 16, 2014, 02:12:42 PM
I must be American on this issue, for practical reasons & a mistrust of those with the power to possibly abuse this system.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Deus Naturae on May 16, 2014, 02:36:19 PM
I'm really not seeing what allowing the government to ban people from viewing information that they have determined is "outdated" has to do with privacy rights...


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on May 16, 2014, 03:47:53 PM
I'm somewhat sympathetic to the idea of a "right to be forgotten" but when it comes up against freedom of the press like this I find it disconcerting.

Is Google required to just remove the link from the search results for the man's name, or is Google supposed to remove all links to the article even with different search terms?


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: dead0man on May 16, 2014, 09:07:20 PM
You don't think the same thing is going to happen every time a rich guy tries to get a link removed from every search engine in the world?

Why do you presume this is only available to rich people? The media reports suggest there are many applicants already. Surely they won't all result in their cases being highlighted - I'm presuming they'll get some safety in numbers.
I'm not the only one that thinks that way.
As for this case it's not a big deal. You more or less have to sue search engines for them to remove these information, and there they major difference between USA and most of the rest of the World in. Outside USA it's a major investment to sue someone, the compensation when you sue are smaller, so it's very rare to see a lawyer willing to sue against getting part of the compensation, so this is expensive for the plaintiff, so this are unlikely to be very expensive for Search Engines.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: ingemann on May 17, 2014, 03:25:07 PM
You don't think the same thing is going to happen every time a rich guy tries to get a link removed from every search engine in the world?

Why do you presume this is only available to rich people? The media reports suggest there are many applicants already. Surely they won't all result in their cases being highlighted - I'm presuming they'll get some safety in numbers.
I'm not the only one that thinks that way.
As for this case it's not a big deal. You more or less have to sue search engines for them to remove these information, and there they major difference between USA and most of the rest of the World in. Outside USA it's a major investment to sue someone, the compensation when you sue are smaller, so it's very rare to see a lawyer willing to sue against getting part of the compensation, so this is expensive for the plaintiff, so this are unlikely to be very expensive for Search Engines.

I didn't say anything about rich people, most middle class people could afford these lawsuit, but it would be a significant investment, which would ensure few people would care to push these cases.





Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Tirnam on May 30, 2014, 03:52:58 AM
Today Google launches its webform through which people can submit their requests.

Google:
Quote
In implementing this decision, we will assess each individual request and attempt to balance the privacy rights of the individual with the public’s right to know and distribute information. When evaluating your request, we will look at whether the results include outdated information about you, as well as whether there’s a public interest in the information—for example, information about financial scams, professional malpractice, criminal convictions, or public conduct of government officials.

Please note that this form is an initial effort. We look forward to working closely with data protection authorities and others over the coming months as we refine our approach.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: swl on June 27, 2014, 07:53:36 AM
Google started removing links today. It does not seem so difficult after all. Yahoo and Microsoft are working on a similar process, and cases similar to the one in Europe may soon be heard in Canada and Japan.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/google-starts-removing-search-results-under-europes-right-to-be-forgotten-1403774023


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: dead0man on November 15, 2014, 10:31:14 AM
Now they want to enforce this stupidity world wide (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834670/Google-faces-daily-1-000-euro-fine-France-right-forget-article-not-taken-down.html)
Quote
Google’s French arm has been told it will have to pay a 1,000 euro fine every day should the parent company in America – Google Inc - fail to remove a defamatory article from its global network.
The order, by a court in Paris, is an enforcement of the controversial so-called ‘right to be forgotten’ ruling.
The case was brought against Google by Dan Shefet, a Danish lawyer employed in France, last August following a malicious campaign against his firm by various blogs and sites that was overseen by someone who couldn’t be traced.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Lief 🗽 on November 15, 2014, 11:47:35 AM
Now they want to enforce this stupidity world wide (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834670/Google-faces-daily-1-000-euro-fine-France-right-forget-article-not-taken-down.html)
Quote
Google’s French arm has been told it will have to pay a 1,000 euro fine every day should the parent company in America – Google Inc - fail to remove a defamatory article from its global network.
The order, by a court in Paris, is an enforcement of the controversial so-called ‘right to be forgotten’ ruling.
The case was brought against Google by Dan Shefet, a Danish lawyer employed in France, last August following a malicious campaign against his firm by various blogs and sites that was overseen by someone who couldn’t be traced.

Wonderful news! I know the libertarian/right-wing types oppose privacy rights, but for the rest of us, this is a step in the right direction.


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Atlas Has Shrugged on November 15, 2014, 12:07:15 PM
Now they want to enforce this stupidity world wide (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834670/Google-faces-daily-1-000-euro-fine-France-right-forget-article-not-taken-down.html)
Quote
Google’s French arm has been told it will have to pay a 1,000 euro fine every day should the parent company in America – Google Inc - fail to remove a defamatory article from its global network.
The order, by a court in Paris, is an enforcement of the controversial so-called ‘right to be forgotten’ ruling.
The case was brought against Google by Dan Shefet, a Danish lawyer employed in France, last August following a malicious campaign against his firm by various blogs and sites that was overseen by someone who couldn’t be traced.

Wonderful news! I know the libertarian/right-wing types oppose privacy rights, but for the rest of us, this is a step in the right direction.
Good. I hope the Koch brothers get every anti-Koch/Citizens United ad stripped from Google as well. If public figures and businessmen have the right to silence criticism and competition on the internet, than let everybody have that right....


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Lief 🗽 on November 15, 2014, 12:14:18 PM
To Sanchez's weird strawman of a "point"; do European defamation laws have the public figure/private figure (/limited purpose public figure) distinction or is that a purely American thing?


Title: Re: EU court backs 'right to be forgotten' in Google case
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on November 22, 2014, 12:41:16 AM
Now they want to enforce this stupidity world wide (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2834670/Google-faces-daily-1-000-euro-fine-France-right-forget-article-not-taken-down.html)
Quote
Google’s French arm has been told it will have to pay a 1,000 euro fine every day should the parent company in America – Google Inc - fail to remove a defamatory article from its global network.
The order, by a court in Paris, is an enforcement of the controversial so-called ‘right to be forgotten’ ruling.
The case was brought against Google by Dan Shefet, a Danish lawyer employed in France, last August following a malicious campaign against his firm by various blogs and sites that was overseen by someone who couldn’t be traced.

Wonderful news! I know the libertarian/right-wing types oppose privacy rights, but for the rest of us, this is a step in the right direction.
Good. I hope the Koch brothers get every anti-Koch/Citizens United ad stripped from Google as well. If public figures and businessmen have the right to silence criticism and competition on the internet, than let everybody have that right....

     Hmm, there's an idea. We could foment a mass movement to get removed from Google. With any luck, Google will collapse having been reduced to irrelevance. Those in power will be forced to meet our demands, lest that we should shut down the other major search engines and force the internet to truly fall.