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Title: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Passed) Post by: Boston Bread on February 23, 2015, 09:49:08 PM Quote Article I: Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor 2. All previous rights, privilages and responsibilities conferred to the Lieutenant Governor are still valid and maintained 3. The Lieutenant Governor shall be able to break deadlocks in the Assembly by breaking ties 4. The previous clause shall only kick in if there is a vacancy or case of gross inactivity with a member of the Assembly 5. This amendment shall be in force upon it's ratification Sponsor: JCL Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on February 24, 2015, 01:31:27 AM This was inspired out of the recent deadlock situation due to a serious level of inactivity by one of our assemblyman. Plus as one of architects of the amendment to add a lt gov to rectify a mistake I made by not putting something in to give him or her specific duties. I'm open to any ideas to improve the amendment and will work with my fellow assemblymen on this matter.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on February 24, 2015, 10:58:48 AM What would constitute gross inactivity? 7 days of not posting and missing two votes in that period? That was the definition used in the amendment to Article I on inactivity.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on February 24, 2015, 02:46:38 PM What would constitute gross inactivity? 7 days of not posting and missing two votes in that period? That was the definition used in the amendment to Article I on inactivity. Four days or 2 votes Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: TDAS04 on February 24, 2015, 03:46:07 PM This is a good idea. The Lt. Governor should have more responsibilities and there should be a way in which such ties may be broken.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 24, 2015, 05:20:26 PM I oppose this. It's clearly a politic tactic for the right wing to gain a majority in the Assembly.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on February 24, 2015, 06:30:36 PM I oppose this. It's clearly a politic tactic for the right wing to gain a majority in the Assembly. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: windjammer on February 24, 2015, 06:38:17 PM Sorry for the interruption but when Crabcake will be removed from office (keep him in your thought and prayers considering his current problems), TDAS04 will appoint a new representative. So in the end, the 2-2 won't stay indefinitely.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on February 24, 2015, 07:08:48 PM I oppose this. It's clearly a politic tactic for the right wing to gain a majority in the Assembly. This is no tactic to give the right a working majority. This is to encourage activity for the Lt. Governor. The left would benefit from this as well. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Hatman 🍁 on February 25, 2015, 01:26:31 PM Sorry for the interruption but when Crabcake will be removed from office (keep him in your thought and prayers considering his current problems), TDAS04 will appoint a new representative. So in the end, the 2-2 won't stay indefinitely. Ahh, I hadn't seen his "attention whore" thread until now. I was wondering he was posting elsewhere but not here. I will certainly keep him in my thoughts. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on February 26, 2015, 11:28:46 PM As opposed to anything about inactivity, maybe we can institute this in case where the time for a vote has expired and it is a tie.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on February 27, 2015, 10:42:09 AM I agree with Shua, what does everyone think about this amendment to the amendment?
Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor 2. All previous rights, privilages and responsibilities conferred to the Lieutenant Governor are still valid and maintained 3. The Lieutenant Governor shall be able to break deadlocks in the Assembly by breaking ties Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on February 27, 2015, 03:40:37 PM I agree with Shua, what does everyone think about this amendment to the amendment? Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor 2. All previous rights, privilages and responsibilities conferred to the Lieutenant Governor are still valid and maintained 3. The Lieutenant Governor shall be able to break deadlocks in the Assembly by breaking ties The amendment is hostile. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on February 27, 2015, 08:39:38 PM The reason I introduced my amendment is because my view is that a 2-2 tie that was the result of an abstention should be able to be broken. But I think now that if one legislator is missing for a short time, then there should be a restriction so that a 2-2 tie cannot be broken, so I acknowledge JCL's objection to removing all restrictions.
I withdraw my previous amendment, and I am proposing this amendment instead. Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor 2. All previous rights, priviliges and responsibilities conferred to the Lieutenant Governor are still valid and maintained 3. The Lieutenant Governor shall be able to break deadlocks in the Assembly by breaking ties 4. The previous clause shall only come to effect when at least one of the following situations hold: a. There is a vacancy b. One or members of the Assembly is grossly inactive. Gross inactivity is defined as having at least four consecutive days where no post was made in an Assembly thread, or missing two consecutive votes. c. There is a tie where all assembly members participated in the voting, with one or more members abstaining 5. This amendment shall be in force upon it's ratification Edit: made 4 more clear Edit: included the typo Shua found in 2. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on February 28, 2015, 12:04:37 AM The reason I introduced my amendment is because my view is that a 2-2 tie that was the result of an abstention should be able to be broken. But I think now that if one legislator is missing for a short time, then there should be a restriction so that a 2-2 tie cannot be broken, so I acknowledge JCL's objection to removing all restrictions. I withdraw my previous amendment, and I am proposing this amendment instead. Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor 2. All previous rights, privilages and responsibilities conferred to the Lieutenant Governor are still valid and maintained 3. The Lieutenant Governor shall be able to break deadlocks in the Assembly by breaking ties 4. The previous clause shall only come to effect when: a. There is a vacancy b. One or members of the Assembly is grossly inactive. Gross inactivity is defined as having at least four consecutive days where no post was made in an Assembly thread, or missing two consecutive votes. c. There is a tie where all assembly members participated in the voting, with one or more members abstaining 5. This amendment shall be in force upon it's ratification This is much better Mr. Speaker. It also tidys up clause 4. So.... I give it a friendly amendment. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on February 28, 2015, 09:45:19 PM is that (a, b, OR c) or (a, b, AND c)?
I still don't think we need to bring "gross inactivity" into it. How about this? Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor 2. All previous rights, priviliiges and responsibilities conferred to the Lieutenant Governor are still valid and maintained 3. The Lieutenant Governor shall be able to break deadlocks in the Assembly by breaking ties once the time for voting on a piece of legislation has been exhausted. Also, what does clause 2 mean? What "previous rights, priviliges and responsibilities" does this speak of and where are these listed? Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on February 28, 2015, 10:23:24 PM My intention was that 3. would come into affect if any of 4a. 4b. or 4c. were true.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 01, 2015, 10:28:28 AM is that (a, b, OR c) or (a, b, AND c)? I still don't think we need to bring "gross inactivity" into it. How about this? Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor 2. All previous rights, priviliiges and responsibilities conferred to the Lieutenant Governor are still valid and maintained 3. The Lieutenant Governor shall be able to break deadlocks in the Assembly by breaking ties once the time for voting on a piece of legislation has been exhausted. Also, what does clause 2 mean? What "previous rights, priviliges and responsibilities" does this speak of and where are these listed? Clause 2 is a confirmation of the powers already invested. @New Canadaland's interpretation of clause 4 is totally accurate. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 01, 2015, 01:05:59 PM Where are the powers of the LG invested if not in the Constitution?
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 01, 2015, 08:44:38 PM Where are the powers of the LG invested if not in the Constitution? The powers are listed in the section on the governor. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 02, 2015, 02:39:43 PM Where are the powers of the LG invested if not in the Constitution? The powers are listed in the section on the governor. If it is in a different part of the Constitution, and we aren't changing that part of the Constitution, we don't need to add something to the Constitution saying we aren't changing it. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 02, 2015, 04:22:45 PM We should decide on whether we should have a vote on my or Shua's amendment. The two amendments are contradictory, after all.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: TDAS04 on March 02, 2015, 07:42:51 PM Shua's amendment makes sense to me. Regardless of the Lt. Governor's politics (which may change with a change in Lt. Governor), he should just be able to break a tie when there is one after voting time has expired.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 03, 2015, 01:24:56 PM JCL, do you consider Shua's amendment friendly? If so I will call a vote on it.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 03, 2015, 04:51:12 PM JCL, do you consider Shua's amendment friendly? If so I will call a vote on it. If clause four stays it is. Otherwise no. The change to clause 3 is fine but the question is over clause 4. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 03, 2015, 09:16:07 PM JCL, can you explain the importance of section 4? Ultimately I would accept either mine or Shua's amendments but the rest of the assembly seems to agree that section 4 isn't necessary in its current form.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 03, 2015, 10:01:45 PM JCL, can you explain the importance of section 4? Ultimately I would accept either mine or Shua's amendments but the rest of the assembly seems to agree that section 4 isn't necessary in its current form. Clause 4 explains the possible cases of needing the Lt. Gov. to cast a decide a tie breaking vote. I'm just trying to understand why my fellow assemblymen don't see the need for clause 4. I'm willing to work with either amendment. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 03, 2015, 10:27:03 PM I believe tie-breaking procedure should be more flexible so it does a better job of breaking gridlock, but I'm willing to compromise.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 03, 2015, 10:35:28 PM JCL, can you explain the importance of section 4? Ultimately I would accept either mine or Shua's amendments but the rest of the assembly seems to agree that section 4 isn't necessary in its current form. Clause 4 explains the possible cases of needing the Lt. Gov. to cast a decide a tie breaking vote. I'm just trying to understand why my fellow assemblymen don't see the need for clause 4. I'm willing to work with either amendment. Do you believe we need to limit when the LG can break ties? Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 04, 2015, 07:57:49 PM JCL, can you explain the importance of section 4? Ultimately I would accept either mine or Shua's amendments but the rest of the assembly seems to agree that section 4 isn't necessary in its current form. Clause 4 explains the possible cases of needing the Lt. Gov. to cast a decide a tie breaking vote. I'm just trying to understand why my fellow assemblymen don't see the need for clause 4. I'm willing to work with either amendment. Do you believe we need to limit when the LG can break ties? I'm trying to figure a way to give him/her this power but still maintain separation of powers and prevent abuse of said power. Giving an absolute tie breaker vote may subvert that. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 05, 2015, 01:05:10 PM Let's start sorting this out. I will call a vote on Shua's amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 05, 2015, 05:28:46 PM Abstain
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 05, 2015, 08:27:23 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: Boston Bread on March 07, 2015, 02:05:50 PM Abstain
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: Boston Bread on March 08, 2015, 12:10:19 PM There has been enough voting time on Shua's amendment, and it has passed 1-0, 2 abstaining.
Assemblyman JCL, would you rather have a vote on my amendment or a final vote now? Like I said I would accept either of the two amendments. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 09, 2015, 05:11:29 PM There has been enough voting time on Shua's amendment, and it has passed 1-0, 2 abstaining. Assemblyman JCL, would you rather have a vote on my amendment or a final vote now? Like I said I would accept either of the two amendments. I'd like to request a vote on your amendment. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 10, 2015, 11:01:26 AM I am calling a vote on my amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain. Note that Shua's amendment will be replaced if it passes.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 10, 2015, 08:20:22 PM Nay
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 11, 2015, 03:12:50 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: Boston Bread on March 11, 2015, 03:31:58 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: Boston Bread on March 12, 2015, 09:01:19 AM The amendment has passed 2-1. A final vote will follow if there is no additional debate by tomorrow.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 13, 2015, 01:28:19 AM I have an amendment removing the two clauses which I consider superfluous given their enactment is assumed by the process of adopting a constitutional amendment.
Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor a. There is a vacancy b. One or members of the Assembly is grossly inactive. Gross inactivity is defined as having at least four consecutive days where no post was made in an Assembly thread, or missing two consecutive votes. c. There is a tie where all assembly members participated in the voting, with one or more members abstaining Also I think we may need to clarify what is meant by a "deadlock." Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 13, 2015, 09:25:17 AM I support Shua's suggestions. Regarding the ambiguity of a deadlock, I am proposing a modified amendment to clarify what a deadlock is.
Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor a. There is a vacancy b. One or members of the Assembly is grossly inactive. Gross inactivity is defined as having at least four consecutive days where no post was made in an Assembly thread, or missing two consecutive votes. c. There is a tie where all assembly members participated in the voting, with one or more members abstaining Shua, would this suffice? Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 13, 2015, 06:16:17 PM I'll go ahead and amend it further to show the kind of clarification i think we need:
Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor 2. If a bill has been voted on by the Assembly and a tie remains, the Lieutenant Governor shall, under certain conditions, be able to break the tie by voting on it within a period of two days after the final vote by the Assembly has been declared. a. There is a vacancy b. One or members of the Assembly is grossly inactive. Gross inactivity is defined as having at least four consecutive days where no post was made in an Assembly thread, or missing two consecutive votes. c. There is a tie where all assembly members participated in the voting, with one or more members abstaining Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 13, 2015, 09:47:35 PM I accept Shua's suggestion. I withdraw my amendment.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 13, 2015, 10:41:10 PM Why is clause 5 marked out?
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 13, 2015, 10:46:10 PM Why is clause 5 marked out? Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 13, 2015, 10:50:47 PM Why is clause 5 marked out? Then I'm ok with it. Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 14, 2015, 05:44:36 PM I am calling a vote on Shua's most recent amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: Negusa Nagast 🚀 on March 14, 2015, 06:11:12 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 14, 2015, 06:18:51 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: Boston Bread on March 14, 2015, 06:29:45 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 15, 2015, 09:02:17 AM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Voting on Amendment) Post by: Boston Bread on March 15, 2015, 09:06:43 PM By a 3-0 vote, this amendment has passed.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 15, 2015, 09:51:45 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 16, 2015, 12:45:06 AM Just so make my position clear on this up front, in spite of the improvements we made, I plan to vote nay at this point. I think we either have the Lt Gov. be able to break ties or not, without complicating it.
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 Post by: Boston Bread on March 16, 2015, 03:58:47 PM I am calling a final vote on the amendment. The final draft is displayed below. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
Quote Section 5. The Lieutenant Governor 1. The Governor shall be assisted in his duties by a Lieutenant Governor 2. If a bill has been voted on by the Assembly and a tie remains, the Lieutenant Governor shall, under certain conditions, be able to break the tie by voting on it within a period of two days after the final vote by the Assembly has been declared. 3. The previous clause shall only come to effect when at least one of the following situations hold: a. There is a vacancy b. One or members of the Assembly is grossly inactive. Gross inactivity is defined as having at least four consecutive days where no post was made in an Assembly thread, or missing two consecutive votes. c. There is a tie where all assembly members participated in the voting, with one or more members abstaining Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Final Vote) Post by: Hatman 🍁 on March 16, 2015, 07:21:06 PM aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Final Vote) Post by: 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 on March 16, 2015, 07:41:15 PM Nay
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Final Vote) Post by: Boston Bread on March 16, 2015, 08:19:24 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Final Vote) Post by: Negusa Nagast 🚀 on March 16, 2015, 08:20:41 PM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Final Vote) Post by: MyRescueKittehRocks on March 17, 2015, 10:46:15 AM Aye
Title: Re: MA: Amendment to Article I, Section 5 (Final Vote) Post by: Boston Bread on March 17, 2015, 05:57:21 PM All assembly members have voted thus I am ending the vote. The amendment passes by a 4-1 vote.
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