Talk Elections

As introduced by Sen. MasterJedi:

2005 Puerto Rican Statehood Bill

I.   The commonwealths of Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands are hereby the 51st state of the union of the Atlasia with the name of Puerto Rico.
II.   The Senate shall vote on which region/district Puerto Rico shall be designated into.
III.   The State of Puerto Rico shall be given full rights from whichever district/region it’s placed into and be under full jurisdiction of the Atlasian constitution.

I hereby open debate on this bill.

Does anybody really need to ask me where I stand on this bill? :P

Well if this is to pass I would rather see the Virgin Islands remain a territory and not lumped in with Puerto Rico since they are very different culturally and linguistically and would probably not work well together if they were one state.

If that needs to happen for this bill to pass I would vote for the change.

Personally, I support this bill, although I agree with Colin Wixted's idea.  I also think it might be a good idea to say that this will only come into force after those from Puerto Rico approve of it, although simulating that when we have no one from Puerto Rico might be kind of hard.

I oppose this bill and my feelings on this stuff are well-known. 

But if its admitted, I will vote for it to join the Southeast.  :)

I oppose this bill, so long as the Virgin Islands are in it.  Having been to both places, I can say that Puerto Rico and the VI are quite different from one another.  It would be like puting PA and New Jersey together.

Is there any way we can add Puerto Rico to Dave's map generator?  Just so that we can still make accurate maps and stuff.  If not, I have my own custom maps that people can use if they want.

As nobody really seems to support the Virgin Islands being included, I introduce this amendment:

Section I is hereby stricken and replaced with the following:

I.   The commonwealth of Puerto Rico is hereby the 51st state of the union of Atlasia under the name of Puerto Rico.

I'm sorry to interfere, but wouldn't it be simpler if, instead of holding a separate vote on the matter, the region designation is determined by bill itself?

See no problems here.

We had a similar bill several sessions ago.  It was an idiotic idea then, and it's an idiotic idea now.  Main reason?  We don't HAVE anyone from Puerto Rico on the forum!

We don't have anybody from Utah either.  I think if Puerto Rico was a state in Atlasia, I'd be tempted to move there.

We have people registered in Utah though. I would rather do something like have the GM make up some sort of referendum numbers, so we can say that we held a referendum, in Puerto Rico, since nobody is in Puerto Rico at this time.

Actually, yes, there is.  I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a secret or not, but in the URL of the image produced by the EV Calculator, if you change the date to "2008" and then add a bit at the end that says "&PR=x;y;z" where x, y, and z are the winning party, the number of EVs, and the winning percentage, respectively, Puerto Rico is displayed on the map.

As for practical realities, a good argument could be made that the Senate does not have the power to do this sort of thing under this Constitution and this bill could well face court challenge.

What would be the relevant sections of the Constitution to make that challenge?

I'm sorry, I misread the Constitution.  It does have the power to do this in the Powers of the Senate.  Apologies.  :)

Ah, okay.  I thought that was the case, but I figured I'd just make sure I wasn't missing something.

Sorry for (kind of) spamming the thread, but I just wanted to test Gabu's map-jigging trick:

()

... Wow, it works!

^ I agree completely with this guy.

The Virgin Islands should remain a territory, or better yet, be given independence. They should never become a state.

Puerto Rico, on the other hand, is very American, and should be a state.

I would rather support making all U.S. territories into registrable-Atlasian territories (which only vote for President) that will become states only if the registered voters of the territory wish to.  Those voters will also get to choose which region to join and what state they wish to be congruent to for redistricting.

That would, however, require this becoming a constitutional amendment.

Sounds good. Are there any Atlasian Puerto Ricans willing to vote, though?

Altough I'd rather not see the Virgin islands grouped in with Puerto Rico, I give full support to the admission of Puerto Rico as the 51st state. 

I still support us changing this to a constitutional amendment with this policy:

This bill is utterly stupid with the VI in it. Unless this bill is amended to read that the Puerto Ricans vote for statehood I intend to vote nay and filibuster this bill. I will not have this Senate force statehood on a island that has voted NO for statehood over 3 times in the past. And if they voted "None of the Above" that's still NO Sen. Jedi.

I agree with my colleague MAS on this, 100%.

We don't have anyone from Utah either.  Not that I am all for this idea, but I don't think it hurts us by adding this.

As is, you are FORCING statehood on Puerto Rico.

As there appears to be no debate on my amendment, I hereby call a vote:


All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

---

Aye.

Aye

Aye to the amendment.  We might as well get rid of something.

Aye.

I also propose this filibuster amendment to beat MAS:

Every accurance of the letter "a" shall be changed to "å."

I support this amendment, as "accurance" is not a word, and thus this amendment will be completely ineffectual. :)

Someone should propose an amendment to make "accurance" a word. ;)

As this comment appears to have been completely ignored, I'll address it.

The main reason why I personally like it in its current form is because the question of "Should Puerto Rico become a state?" is entirely different than the question of "What region should Puerto Rico be located in?"  If this bill both declared that Puerto Rico is made into a state and declared what region it would reside in, there would be a much higher chance of it failing purely because senators didn't like the region it was being put in, not because they didn't like the idea of Puerto Rico being a state.

When the two votes are separated, it allows us to first settle the issue of whether or not Puerto Rico should be a state at all, and then we can settle the issue of where it should go, without the fear that a location suggestion could torpedo its entire admission into the Union.

Aye on the amendment.

Aye to the amendment.

Aye

Aye

Well this has defintily passed now. I hope the Senators who wouldn't have voted for it with the VI in the bill will now be able to commit their vote.

I am sure a past GM did that, or something similar at the least upon my request. IIRC Statehood lost.

Mr. President, I submit a amendment to the clerk's desk regarding the 2005 Puerto Rican Statehood Bill:

Clause I is hereby stricken and replaced with:

I. After a majority vote of the citizens of Puerto Rico voting in the affirmative for statehood in a referendum administered by the territorial government of Puerto Rico, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is hereby entered in the Union of Atlasia as the 51st state under the name of Puerto Rico.

I'll likely vote for it because it seems that Mas might give his vote for this bill if it passes.

I think it is somewhat implied that it would need the consent of Puerto Rico, but anyway, if you want the bill to say that, fine.

No, its not implied Senator. This was why I was against this bill. My amendment is necessary to the passage of this bill, and yes I do want it in words.

Let me register my discomfort with being granted unquestioned authority over how the referendum turns out.  I'm not at all sure that I like the idea of me determining the outcome out of nothing.

I'm not sure about how the dinamics would work about this at this time.

Aye on the amendment.


You guys need to start these votes at normal times.

With nine votes in favor to none against (I'm assuming that Colin's vote was for the first one), the first amendment has passed.

As for this one:


...I'm going to ignore it per the Senate Procedural Resolution on Multiple Issue Bills.

And as for MAS':


I hereby open voting on this amendment.

All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

Aye on Mas's amendment

Aye.

ASye.

Aye

Aye on the Amendment. 

Since I lived in Texas, I know a little about the importance of this amendment.

Aye

With six votes in favor to none against, this amendment has passed.

Aye

Aye

Aye

Aye

Aye for the record.

Sorry I missed so many votes, I was in South Dakota having  wondeful time. :)

Well I'm glad people are more receptive this time :D

I say might as well get rid of something like this Puerto Rico Bill now. :)

If anybody doesn't have any more resignations or would like to continue to debate on this bill I would like to motion for a vote. If someone posts that they would just ignore the motioning. :)

I agree, let's have a vote.

Well I am very leery about this bill. I do not want to force statehood upon those who do not want it. If the Puerto Ricans, in other words the GM, finds themselves in favour of this resolution then I see no reason to vote against it but if the opinions of the Puerto Ricans are not taken into account, again this is GM territory, then I am against this bill.

MAS' amendment that just passed requires a majority of Puerto Ricans to be in favor of statehood for this to come into effect.

I'm guessing that would have to be simulated by the GM for that to take affect then?

I'm not really sure how that work work, actually.  Given that no actual Puerto Rican vote for statehood is coming up, it seems to me that having the GM do it would be akin to having the GM just make stuff up.  However, I don't know of any other way of doing it, so I don't know.

I ask for a vote too.

Okay we have three people that want a vote (including me), can we get a vote Gabu or do we have to wait still?

I was mainly waiting to see if Colin Wixted had anything more to say, but it appears he doesn't, so okay, I'll call a vote on this bill.

The bill's final form is as follows:

2005 Puerto Rican Statehood Bill

I. After a majority vote of the citizens of Puerto Rico voting in the affirmative for statehood in a referendum administered by the territorial government of Puerto Rico, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is hereby entered in the Union of Atlasia as the 51st state under the name of Puerto Rico.
II.   The Senate shall vote on which region/district Puerto Rico shall be designated into.
III.   The State of Puerto Rico shall be given full rights from whichever district/region it’s placed into and be under full jurisdiction of the Atlasian constitution.

All senators in favor, vote "aye"; all against, vote "nay".

Aye

Aye

Aye.

Aye.

Nay

Aye

Aye.

This bill now has enough votes to pass; senators now have 24 hours to change their vote.

So let me see if I have this correctly, if nobody changes their mind on this we have to wait to see how Ford has it play out. And if the Puerto Rican's choose statehood then we start debate on the region to put it in?

Yes, that's correct.

Aye

I say we wait until another referedum from the actual Puerto Rican government rather then leave it to the GM.

That could take years and it wouldn't happen for at least another couple of years. If we waited Atlasia might not be here anymore or we could be waiting forever!

:)

Aye

Oh, no, you don't. :P

Just as my minor legal observation of this whole bill and everything:

Since there is no part of this bill that specifically calls immediately for a referendum on statehood by the people of Puerto Rico, no referendum can legally be called right now by anyone.

That's how the courts will call it; that's how it will be interpreted legally.

Once again, I will continue to advise everyone to read what you vote for before you vote.

Blah. Well, it is an entirely different Senate.

Doesn't matter.  As I stated above, nothing will happen will this bill, because it doesn't really specify doing anything.

Also, it's been 24 hours on this thing.  We can send this to the President.

With seven votes in favor to one against, this bill has passed.

I hereby present it to the president for his signature.

I strongly advise the President to veto this bill. Not that anyone cares what a former Senator has to say, but I might as well try.

I strongly advise the President to sign this bill!

But the bill is apparently useless...

Ford is holding a plebescite on Monday, without this bill it can't happen so yes it needs to be signed. :)

Areas we have no avatars for?  I'm pretty sure this is a Puerto Rican avatar:

()

Oh, I thought you were saying "this is the only area without an avatar that I will allow."

Can the Senate get started on the next bill please?  :P

Since the Official Senate Procedural Resolution is now in effect, I need to wait 24 hours after a bill passes or fails before bringing a new one to the floor.

Ah crap.

Please excuse my impatience, by the way.  If you hadn't already figured, I'm quite keen to get the Secret Ballot Bill to the floor in time for the next federal election.  A week before it would be even better. ;)

Okay I'll shut up now.

If you want to, you could start a motion to override the specific clause making you wait 24 hours and with a majority vote, you could introduce something faster. 

It's much easier with a President of the Senate actually serving.  Then you two could just start a new bill by letting us know you wanted to start it.

Getting six votes on that would probably take around 24 hours anyway, so I figure I might as well not expend the effort.