Talk Elections

General Politics => U.S. General Discussion => Topic started by: Inmate Trump on March 20, 2017, 07:41:56 PM



Title: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Inmate Trump on March 20, 2017, 07:41:56 PM
I'm gonna say no. And even if they did see something a little unnerving about there being an investigation at all, they wouldn't care. They wouldn't care if it was revealed the Trump campaign had direct ties to the Russian hack of the election.

They don't care.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Ronnie on March 20, 2017, 07:48:16 PM
I voted no, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  My feeling from the beginning has been that the Trump campaign was too incompetent to successfully carry out such a covert operation without promptly getting caught.  I suspect that all this hysteria will backfire if and when the FBI says that nothing is there, and he'll get a fairly significant approval bump.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: ApatheticAustrian on March 20, 2017, 08:00:04 PM
depends on the results but the amount of people interested is still very small.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: TJ in Oregon on March 20, 2017, 08:03:28 PM
Only if they find something worthwhile, like collusion with the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. If "hacked the election" simply means getting and leaking John Podesta's emails via phishing scam, I don't think many more people will care all that much. We already know about those.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: ApatheticAustrian on March 20, 2017, 08:04:44 PM
Only if they find something worthwhile, like collusion with the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. If "hacked the election" simply means getting and leaking John Podesta's emails via phishing scam, I don't think many more people will care all that much. We already know about those.

that's not even the point.

the question is, if people like manafort, flynn and stone talked directly with russian agents and or cooperated with assange or shared information, etc etc.



Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Hindsight was 2020 on March 20, 2017, 08:06:28 PM
They don't the sad truth is these people see democrats as the embodiment of evil thus any dirty borderline treasonous thing done to win is good


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Pericles on March 20, 2017, 08:16:48 PM
His diehard supporters will remain loyal. But most Trump voters aren't diehard supporters. There are the millions of people who opposed him in the primary and then voted for him in the general. There's the Obama-Trump voters, who will be easier to flip, and the traditionally Republican voters who very reluctantly voted for Trump. If Trump is found to have committed serious crimes, he will lose enough support to either lose him the 2020 election or have him removed from office. Nixon lost the support of his party and 75% of the country after the truth was revealed in Watergate, while 2016 is more partisan Trump has less public and party support than Nixon had and will probably lose a lot of support. Don't give up, Donald Trump can be toppled and the truth can be exposed.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: ApatheticAustrian on March 20, 2017, 08:21:21 PM
most important:

comey confirmed today, that the russians hacked members of both parties but only released the anti-hillary stuff, cause they wanted to help the candidate - trump - who was seen as pro-putin.

no coincidence.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: TJ in Oregon on March 20, 2017, 09:07:04 PM
Only if they find something worthwhile, like collusion with the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. If "hacked the election" simply means getting and leaking John Podesta's emails via phishing scam, I don't think many more people will care all that much. We already know about those.

that's not even the point.

the question is, if people like manafort, flynn and stone talked directly with russian agents and or cooperated with assange or shared information, etc etc.

I mean, we already know pretty much everyone imaginable has talked directly with Russian agents. It's just a question of whether we can demonstrate they said anything incriminating.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: ApatheticAustrian on March 21, 2017, 03:30:07 AM
Comey has promised congress in..june?.. to brief it again, IF something new re:mailgate would come up..and so he did.

imho he has handed trump the election anyway.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Middle-aged Europe on March 21, 2017, 04:49:34 AM
Frankly, the outcome of this FBI investigation could also be that the administration is cleared in the end.

If anything, an eye-opener for Trump supporters should have been that Donald Trump is prone to act completely irrational and that through this irrational behavior he is undermining the citizens' trust in the presidency and the trust of America's allies in the United States. (And collusion or not this is exactly what Vladimir Putin had hoped for.)
 
He wrote on frigging Twitter that his predecessor ordered a wiretap in him and compared it to Watergate, because of something he thought he saw on the news. Despite all evidence on the contrary (or rather the absence of any evidence to back up his claims) he continues to insist that he's right. He also claimed that the intelligence service of an close ally helped Obama with the wiretapping, again because of something he thought he saw on the news. Despite the fact that the Republican Speaker of the House, the Republican Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, and the Director of the FBI are saying that he's wrong, he still seems to insist that he was right.

And for weeks, the government is spending time, ressources, and manpower for this bullsh**t instead of using it for something useful and constructive instead, like actually governing.

Since Trump has shown no willingness or capacity to reform so far, we have to assume that this kind of behavior will continue as long as Trump is president. Which could be for another four years. As a recent opinion piece for the Washington Post put it correctly: "In one of the presidential debates, CNBC's John Harwood asked Trump if he was running "a comic book version of a presidential campaign." Now Trump seems to be running a cartoon version of a presidency, and he's Elmer Fudd."


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: EnglishPete on March 21, 2017, 09:38:14 AM
I voted no, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  My feeling from the beginning has been that the Trump campaign was too incompetent to successfully carry out such a covert operation without promptly getting caught.

If the Trump campaign did indeed carry out such a 'covert operation' and promptly get caught then why has no one produced any such evidence or even claimed that such evidence exists? On the contrary Comey and others have repeatedly said that they are not aware of any such evidence of collusion.

So if the Trump campaign is so inept as to not be able to carry out such a covert operation without being caught

and given that there is no indication that they have been caught in this way

wouldn't that suggest that no such 'covert operation' ever happened in the first place.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Silent Hunter on March 21, 2017, 09:56:33 AM
Not being aware of any evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is every chance it will turn up, especially if someone rolls over on the others to save their own skins.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: EnglishPete on March 21, 2017, 11:12:31 AM
Not being aware of any evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is every chance it will turn up, especially if someone rolls over on the others to save their own skins.
There's all kind of things that no one is aware of evidence for. To say that 'there is every chance it will turn up' suggests that there is good reasons for thinking that such evidence exists. Given that the Dems have been pushing this 'Trump collaborated with the Russians' fabricated narrative for months and that not only has no proof of this turned up, no evidence for it has turned up either.

What has happened is that there have been leaks of various bits of intelligence, such as the report of Flynn-Russian Ambassador conversation, that appear to back up this narrative when taken out of context. Who might have made these leaks, obviously designed to look as though they backed up the Democrats fabricated narrative? Well possible answers to that question was provided by Trey Gowdy's questioning of Comey on the question of who could have had access to that data. It was established that

James Clapper
James Brennon
Susan Rice
Loretta Lynch
Sally Yates
Barak Obama

would all have likely had such access.

Like the farce over the recounts and the electoral college I think this will be another case of Wile E Coyote Democrats trying to hit Road Runner Trump and getting hit with their own Acme rocket.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Ronnie on March 21, 2017, 11:43:03 AM
I voted no, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  My feeling from the beginning has been that the Trump campaign was too incompetent to successfully carry out such a covert operation without promptly getting caught.

If the Trump campaign did indeed carry out such a 'covert operation' and promptly get caught then why has no one produced any such evidence or even claimed that such evidence exists? On the contrary Comey and others have repeatedly said that they are not aware of any such evidence of collusion.

So if the Trump campaign is so inept as to not be able to carry out such a covert operation without being caught

and given that there is no indication that they have been caught in this way

wouldn't that suggest that no such 'covert operation' ever happened in the first place.

I believe I implied that I don't think they colluded with the Russians.  There should still be an investigation, but until we see evidence, I don't know if there's any reason to believe the connection is there.

That said, I believed the same thing about Hillary Clinton's FBI investigation.  Hysteria in these circumstances is always the wrong thing to do, whether on the left or right.



Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: EnglishPete on March 21, 2017, 11:50:32 AM
I voted no, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.  My feeling from the beginning has been that the Trump campaign was too incompetent to successfully carry out such a covert operation without promptly getting caught.

If the Trump campaign did indeed carry out such a 'covert operation' and promptly get caught then why has no one produced any such evidence or even claimed that such evidence exists? On the contrary Comey and others have repeatedly said that they are not aware of any such evidence of collusion.

So if the Trump campaign is so inept as to not be able to carry out such a covert operation without being caught

and given that there is no indication that they have been caught in this way

wouldn't that suggest that no such 'covert operation' ever happened in the first place.

I believe I implied that I don't think they colluded with the Russians.  There should still be an investigation, but at this point, I don't know if there's any reason to believe the connection is there.

That said, I believed the same thing about Hillary Clinton's FBI investigation.  Hysteria in these circumstances is always the wrong thing to do, whether on the left or right.


Misunderstood your point there. My mistake.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: EnglishPete on April 02, 2017, 06:32:00 PM
Who might have made these leaks, obviously designed to look as though they backed up the Democrats fabricated narrative? Well possible answers to that question was provided by Trey Gowdy's questioning of Comey on the question of who could have had access to that data. It was established that

James Clapper
James Brennon
Susan Rice
Loretta Lynch
Sally Yates
Barak Obama

would all have likely had such access.

Like the farce over the recounts and the electoral college I think this will be another case of Wile E Coyote Democrats trying to hit Road Runner Trump and getting hit with their own Acme rocket.

Unconfirmed report about one of the above names ordering the 'unmasking', lets see if we hear any confirmation.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Hindsight was 2020 on April 02, 2017, 06:45:36 PM
Now it's being reported that the FBI is investigating aid in the hacking itself by the Trump team. This could get really ugly


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Devout Centrist on April 02, 2017, 06:52:51 PM
Now it's being reported that the FBI is investigating aid in the hacking itself by the Trump team. This could get really ugly
Source?


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: EnglishPete on April 02, 2017, 06:53:09 PM
Now it's being reported that the FBI is investigating aid in the hacking itself by the Trump team. This could get really ugly
Any sign that they've found any evidence yet for this Trump/Russia/hacking conspiracy theory?


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Pericles on April 02, 2017, 07:10:32 PM
Now it's being reported that the FBI is investigating aid in the hacking itself by the Trump team. This could get really ugly
Any sign that they've found any evidence yet for this Trump/Russia/hacking conspiracy theory?

Watergate was a conspiracy theory too once.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Hindsight was 2020 on April 02, 2017, 08:06:08 PM
Now it's being reported that the FBI is investigating aid in the hacking itself by the Trump team. This could get really ugly
Source?
CBS news


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Tartarus Sauce on April 02, 2017, 09:12:50 PM
Now it's being reported that the FBI is investigating aid in the hacking itself by the Trump team. This could get really ugly
Source?
CBS news

Not seeing it anywhere.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Hindsight was 2020 on April 02, 2017, 09:15:38 PM
Now it's being reported that the FBI is investigating aid in the hacking itself by the Trump team. This could get really ugly
Source?
CBS news

Not seeing it anywhere.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-probing-whether-trump-aides-helped-russian-intel-in-early-2016/


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin on April 02, 2017, 10:17:02 PM
Frankly, the outcome of this FBI investigation could also be that the administration is cleared in the end.

At this point, if he wants to ever be an effective President (doubtful), Trump needs the FBI investigation to clear him, so that he can move past Russiagate.  That he and his supporters are not confident that an investigation (by the man who more than any other individual handed Trump the Presidency, no less) will clear Trump says volumes. His followers think he's guilty (not that they'll admit it), and he and his cronies obviously have things they want to keep hidden.

Trump's clumsy, desperate-looking pushback and maneuvering against the Congressional and DoJ investigations is what convinces me that he is guilty, more than anything else.


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: EnglishPete on April 03, 2017, 02:45:17 AM
Frankly, the outcome of this FBI investigation could also be that the administration is cleared in the end.

At this point, if he wants to ever be an effective President (doubtful), Trump needs the FBI investigation to clear him, so that he can move past Russiagate.  That he and his supporters are not confident that an investigation (by the man who more than any other individual handed Trump the Presidency, no less) will clear Trump says volumes. His followers think he's guilty (not that they'll admit it), and he and his cronies obviously have things they want to keep hidden.

Trump's clumsy, desperate-looking pushback and maneuvering against the Congressional and DoJ investigations is what convinces me that he is guilty, more than anything else.

Firstly its not the job of the FBI to 'clear' people. Their job is to investigate and the most they can do is declare that they have found no evidence against someone. They've already said they have no evidence so far against Trump and his team and it hasn't stopped the Dem witch hunt.

Secondly if you think that the behaviour of Trump and his supporters is that of people who know he's guilty and are worried about being found out then please explain how their behaviour differs from people who think that the Dems and their allies in the deep state are working to get him out of office by framing him for something that he's not guilty of?


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: EnglishPete on April 03, 2017, 02:47:59 AM
Quote
Susan Rice, who served as the National Security Adviser under President Obama, has been identified as the official who requested unmasking of incoming Trump officials, Cernovich Media can exclusively report.

The White House Counsel’s office identified Rice as the person responsible for the unmasking after examining Rice’s document log requests. The reports Rice requested to see are kept under tightly-controlled conditions. Each person must log her name before being granted access to them.

Upon learning of Rice’s actions, H. R. McMaster dispatched his close aide Derek Harvey to Capitol Hill to brief Chairman Nunes.

Under President Obama, the unmasking rules were changed. Circa originally reported:

Quote
As his presidency drew to a close, Barack Obama’s top aides routinely reviewed intelligence reports gleaned from the National Security Agency’s incidental intercepts of Americans abroad, taking advantage of rules their boss relaxed starting in 2011 to help the government better fight terrorism, espionage by foreign enemies and hacking threats, Circa has learned.
https://medium.com/@Cernovich/susan-rice-requested-unmasking-of-incoming-trump-administration-officials-30085b5cff16


Title: Re: The FBI is investigating possible collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia
Post by: yankeesfan on April 03, 2017, 08:51:09 AM
Quote
Susan Rice, who served as the National Security Adviser under President Obama, has been identified as the official who requested unmasking of incoming Trump officials, Cernovich Media can exclusively report.

The White House Counsel’s office identified Rice as the person responsible for the unmasking after examining Rice’s document log requests. The reports Rice requested to see are kept under tightly-controlled conditions. Each person must log her name before being granted access to them.

Upon learning of Rice’s actions, H. R. McMaster dispatched his close aide Derek Harvey to Capitol Hill to brief Chairman Nunes.

Under President Obama, the unmasking rules were changed. Circa originally reported:

Quote
As his presidency drew to a close, Barack Obama’s top aides routinely reviewed intelligence reports gleaned from the National Security Agency’s incidental intercepts of Americans abroad, taking advantage of rules their boss relaxed starting in 2011 to help the government better fight terrorism, espionage by foreign enemies and hacking threats, Circa has learned.
https://medium.com/@Cernovich/susan-rice-requested-unmasking-of-incoming-trump-administration-officials-30085b5cff16

If Cernovich is the first person reporting this---that means Breitbart, FoxNews, and all other Trump mouth-pieces won't touch this story.  What does that signal to you, hmmm?