Talk Elections

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
-Disagree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
-Agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
-Disagree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
-???

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
-Agree (I guess)

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
-Disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
-Disagree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
-Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
-Disagree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
-Disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
-Strongly Agree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
-Agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
-Strongly Disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
-Agree (18 to drink, serve, and vote.)

"Treat others the way you want to be treated."

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. -- SD

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. -- A

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. -- D

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. -- A

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. -- A

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. -- D

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. -- D

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. -- D

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. -- D

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. -- D

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. -- A

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. -- A

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. -- D

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. -- SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. -- D

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. -- SA

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. -- SA

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. -- A

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. -- SA

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. -- D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. -- SD

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. -- A

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. -- SD

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. -- SD

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. -- SA

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. -- D

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. -- SA

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. -- SD

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. -- SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. -- SA

1.) SD

2.) A...

3.) SA

4.) SA

5.) D up to a point. It's important, but not the main thing

6.) Depends. Actually that's a very complicated issue...

7.) No opinion

8.) SD (cannot stress that STRONGLY enough)

9.) Need to know what it would do

10.) A (just)

11.) D

12.) A

13.) SD

14.) SD (note that I don't consider the Hizb-ut-Tahir "kill all the Jews where you find them" stuff to be criticism...)

15.) Don't care

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
AGREE. Although local elections might be problematic.
2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
STRONGLY AGREE. Basically a condition of democracy.
3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
DISAGREE. It's in our genetic code to be obsessed with sex.
4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
DISAGREE. Capitalist society is impossible under the Golden Rule. The Poorest would be better off, but the bulk of the world's population would not be if we returned to the Neolithicum.
5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
DISAGREE. The government's main responsibility should be to conserve Democracy. Define "order".
6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
AGREE in principle. Has to be done right though. Super-subsidized state orchestras and theatres that noone wants to hear are not the way to go. Nor are "market forces".
7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
DISAGREE. It's an empty phrase that makes no difference whatsoever in practice. And of course the people have the right to overthrow an undemocratic government anyways - it can't be granted by the government. The very notion of the government allowing the people to rebel against the government is rather ridiculous, don't yu think?
8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
STRONGLY DISAGREE. "Vote SDP for a larger cranium and abolution of the appendix"? LOL.
9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
DISAGRREE/UNSURE. What's it exactly going to do that's not already done by the Department of Agression and the State Department?
10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
STRONGLY AGREE. Although I prefer 14.
11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
AGREE. Although the US is much better at handling it than Europe. Of course the only sensible - and the only morally acceptable - policy is legalizing all immigration.
12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
STRONGLY AGREE on part one.
STRONGLY DISAGREE on part two as long as we're "only" talking knowledge. A lot of murders would be much easier to solve if the US government (or the states, I don't care) had such records.
UNSURE. Somebody will have to keep these records, if only to combat fraud. And I'd trust the worst ofgovernments before I trust a large corporation. Then again these are going to have thses data anyways, they're not going to give 'em upü to the government are they? Make that an AGREE.
13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
DISAGREE. I don't want to be wiretapped. I don't know about the US legal situation, but restrictions in Germany certainly don't need loosening, and restrictions in ITaly are in desperate need of tightening.
14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
STRONGLY DISAGREE. Of course they are. So is criticism of their critics.
15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
In the US, STRONGLY AGREE.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
-Disagree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
-Disagree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
-Strongly Agree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
-Strongly Agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
-Strongly Agree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
-Strongly Disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
-Strongly Agree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
-Strongly Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
-Strongly Disagree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
-Strongly Disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
-Agree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
-Agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
-Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
-Strongly Disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
-Agree

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.  SD

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. D

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. A

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. SA

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. A

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. D

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. D

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. SD

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. D

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. D

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. D

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. D

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. A

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. A

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Disagree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. Disagree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. Disagree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. Strongly Disagree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. Disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. Disagree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. Strongly Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. Strongly Disagree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. Disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. Strongly Disagree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. Strongly Agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. Strongly Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. Very Strongly Disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. Agree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. agree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.strongly agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.disagree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.depends which golden rule...presuming 'please and thank you', then I agree, I suppose...;)

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.*A* main responsibility, not *the* main responsibility...disagree, i suppose.

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.agree (I wish I could qualify EVERYTHING, but I suppose I should leave some black-and white stuff)

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.unfamiliar with NH constitution, but from an uninformed viewpoint, disagree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.strongly disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.To replace defence? No. But i can see no negatives of a department promoting peace, and aiding in the continuation of it. Agree.

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.argh, want to qualify again...must resist...disagree.

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.strongly disagree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.disagree; but I don't think they're really comperable.

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.strongly disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.strongly agree (Abolish it; and have the purchasing age at 18)

1.) Disagree: Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

2.) Disagree: Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

3.) Strongly Agree: In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.

4.) Agree: We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

5.) Agree: The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.

6.) Strongly Disagree: Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.

7.) Generally Agree: The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.

8.) Strongly Disagree: Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.

9.) Strongly Disagree: A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.

10.) Disagree: The voting age should be lowered to 16.

11.) Strongly Agree: Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.

12.) Depends on who you are: The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.

13.) Disagree: Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.

14.) Disagree: Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.

15.) Disagree: The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. -- SD

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. -- A

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. -- D

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. -- SA

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. -- SD, plenty of tyrannies keep order. Government's main responsibility should be to protect our rights, which in turn normally leads to a sufficiently ordered society.

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. -- D

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. -- A

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. -- D

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. -- SD, sounds too much like a Ministry of Truth

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. -- D

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. -- A

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. -- SA

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. -- D

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. -- SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. -- A

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. 
Strongly Disagree
2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Disagree
3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
Strongly Agree
4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
Agree
5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
Strongly Agree
6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
Strongly Disagree
7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
Disagree
8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
Strongly Disagree
9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
Strongly Disagree
10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
Strongly Disagree
11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
ILLEGAL Strongly Agree / otherwise Disagree
12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
Strongly Disagree
13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
Strongly Disagree
14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
Disagree
15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
Strongly Disagree

Strongly Agree:

Agree:

Disagree:

Strongly Disagree:

Lunar,

Even though it's written in the constitution you strongly disagree that the governments job is to maintain order?

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. D

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. A

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. D

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. A

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. D

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. A

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. SD

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. A

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. A

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. SD

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. SA

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. SD

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. D

I don't believe that is the 'main' purpose of a government.   The question wasn't contextual to the United States, I didn't factor in the Constitution.

It's not that I believe that a government shouldn't provide order, the question was basically whether that was the primary purpose.  In my humble opinion, a government's sole purpose is to provide a mechanism for people to act collectively.  Yes, this does sometimes mean an enforcement of order, but not always.  Sometimes people demand a degree of disorder in exchange for other values (privacy, for example). 

The main reason I wrote "strongly disagree" for my answer instead of a generic "disagree" though, was because I feel it's dangerous for a government to obsess over the theme of 'order.'  I haven't researched it, but I imagine that most tyrannies have been justified by establishing 'order' as their primary purpose.

To address the Constitution, are you referring to the Preamble?


If so, yes, this does clearly establish 'order' as one of the main goals of our government, but not clearly THE main one.  I am kind of nitpicking at this point, I know, but again, I'm wary of infatuation with order.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Those in jail - D, Felons who are out of jail - A

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. SA

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. - SD

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. - SA

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. - D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. - A

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. - neutral, I think it's just pointless

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. - SD

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. - depends on what it would do

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. - D

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. - SD. One issue I could hardly care less about. Would if I lived in Europe though.

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. - A

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.  - SD

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. - SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. - SA

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
SA

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
SA

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
SD

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
wtf?

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
First part SA, second part D

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
Redundant

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
SD

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
D

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
SA

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
SD

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
SA

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
SD

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
D

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

Disagree

2.) Everyone who answered agree to the above question is a total moron.

Strongly Agree

1. A
2. SA
3. D
4. SA
5. D
6. A
7. A
8. SD
9. A
10. D
11. SD
12. SA
13. SD
14. SD
15. D

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
-Agree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
-Agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
-Disagree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
-Agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
-Strongly Disagree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
-Agree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
-Neutral

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
-Strongly Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
-Agree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
-Disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
-Strongly Disagree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
-Agree on the first and third, disagree on the second

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
-Strongly Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
-Strongly Disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
-Agree, lowered to 18.

LOL!

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
A
2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
SA
3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
SD
4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
SD
5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
A
6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
D
7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
SA
8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
?
9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
SA
10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
SA
11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
SD
12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
SA
13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
SD
14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
SD
15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
A

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Felons - AGREE, in jail - DISAGREE

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. AGREE

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. DISAGREE

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. AGREE

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. AGREE

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. AGREE

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. ?

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. DISAGREE

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. DISAGREE

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. AGREE

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. DISAGREE (it is a positive)

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. AGREE, DISAGREE, AGREE

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. DISAGREE

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. DISAGREE

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. AGREE

Don't worry. I'll be the secretary of the Dept of Peace. ;)

Very disappointing.  To think, I'm more liberal than opebo on voting rights.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

I strongly agree in democracy

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

I strongly agree in democracy

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.

Disagree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

Generally, but this doesn't cover rape.

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.

Disagree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.

Somewhat agree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.

Agree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.

Strongy Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.

Sounds like an interesting idea. May be a waste though, what would they do?

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.

Well, I believe it should be eliminated

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.

Seriously?

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.

Gun purchases, yes for the others no

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.

Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.

SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.

Yes, it should be abolished.

Well, clearly, any rapist is not doing unto his rapee as he would have them to do him.

You support letting 5 year olds vote?

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Disagree
2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strongly Agree
3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
Agree
4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
Agree
5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
Agree
6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
Agree, partly
7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
Agree
8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
Disagree
9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
Strongly disagree
10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
Strongly disagree
11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
Strongly disagree
12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
Disagree
13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
Don't know (what are the current restrictinos?)
14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
Strongly disgaree
15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
Agree

--------------

If a five year old wants to vote, I dont see why not. They aren't going to though, so there is no problems.

As for the Golden rul question, Im not sure how a rapist would feel about being raped- especially by the woman he is raping.  My feeling is some wouldnt mind.

Because the number of five year olds who actually want to vote is much much lower than the number who will simply however their parents tell them.

Not to mention they'd be almost completely unable to understand the issues. Try explaining the budget to a five year old.

You guys are really worried about nothing.

Letting five year olds vote is a bad idea - I don't let bad ideas stand without being refuted by sound reason, otherwise more people are likely to listen to them. You're honestly too smart to think that five year olds should be allowed to vote.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

A (undecided, really, but I feel like being positive ;P)

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

A

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.

SA

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

A

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.

D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.

(lean) D

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.

SD

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.

SD

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.

SD (sounds like meaningless federal bureaucracy)

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.

D

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.

SD

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.

D (hardline anti-gun stance outweighs the other two)

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.

SD

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.

SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.

D

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Strongly disagree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Disagree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. Disagree -parents need to talk more about sex with their kids, rather than letting it be known that this is a verbotten subject not fit for conversation

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. What's that?

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. Agree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. Agree -sort of, though not to the first part of your sentence.  Government should provide some measure of support to public school districts around the country that offer programs in the arts.

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. Agree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. Strongly disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. Disagree -though its goals, as elaborated upon by Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, are laudable

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. Disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. Disagree -it is illegal immigration

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. Strongly agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. Strongly disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. Agree

I honestly don't see the problem. Five year olds will not vote, anyways. There will of course be laws (if they dont already exist) against parents forcing their children to vote they way they want to. There will be so few five year olds voting that it would not effect the results. In fact, nothing bad could come of it, you're just worried about nothing. Think outside the box.  Of course if this were to happen, and there were problems with it (that could not be fixed  by strict laws) then I will say the voting age should still be very low.

Any laws preventing such abuse wouldn't be effective

I'm not so sure about that.  The people at the polling stations can enforce and heavily fine any offenders.

Hi! This is mine!

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strongly Agree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strongly Agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
Disagree - Just allow children to hear and know about it from early, so as adults, they will not be as Sex-Crazed as BRTD :P Suppression of knowledge is unconstitutional.

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
Unsure

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
Strongly Agree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
Disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
Strongly Agree Texas kann kiss the US good-bye... as can Quebec w/ Canadia and the Basque Nation with Spain.

8.) Improvement of the human SPECIES through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
Agree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
Disagree Is Homeland Security alright? You tell me!

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
Strongly Disagree These minor pricks do not know $hit about our government. Let alone how it works.

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
VERY Strongly Disagree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun (sword for me) purchases, or credit card use.
Agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
Strongly Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
Strongly Agree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
-Agree

I'm just asking for you to answer for me... what is my ideology based on these replies???

You've never been to Bradford before have you? ;D

When I was 5, I didn't know what the word "politics" really meant; when I was 10, I just supported whoever my parents were rooting for during the TV coverage.  The voting age should be, at minimum, 14, but 16 is better.

All the more reason to support this, as 5 year olds wont vote anyways. And, people vote for who their family votes for all the time, no matter what your age is. That's a terrible argument!

A 5-year old may vote if told to do so by the parent.

Well, any forced voting would be prevented with strict laws, I've already covered this.

How exactly would you stop parents from forcing 5 year olds to vote?  Wouldn't it make more sense to just have a voting age?

Any forcing they do in the vicinity of the polling area would be restricted of course. It may make more sense to have a voting age, but I don't believe it is what democracy is about.

Mother to child: "Honey, if you vote for George Bush, I'll give you a piece of candy."
Father to child: "And if you vote for John Kerry, I'll take away your computer for a week."

This activity would be fined.

How exactly would you find out about it?  Putting security cameras in every home?

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
disagree...not in jail but:

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
no opinion

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
agree (?)

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
disagree?

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
strongly agree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
disagree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
strongly disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
strongly agree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
agree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
strongly disagree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
strongly disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
strongly disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
disagree (a recent flip-flop of mine)

Well, this kind of activity would most likely happen at the polling station.

Why?  If they knew that it would be monitored at the polling station, couldn't the parents just do it at home before leaving for the polling station?

Strongly Disagree
1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.




Agree
3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.


Strongly Agree
4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.

Of couse, but we are talking about 5 year olds here, they need to be reminded. But I degress, these are the kinds of arguments people brought up during the woman's suffrage movement.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Disagree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Undecided

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
Agree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
Strongly agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
Agree

6a.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish...
Strongly agree

6b.) ...and should be funded by the government.
Disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
Neutral

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
Strongly disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
Strongly disagree; what the heck would it do?

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
Disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
Disagree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
Agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
Strongly disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
Agree - lowered.

(PS: "undecided" means that I don't know; "neutral" means that I don't care.)

Gabu! You've become a Conservative! This is, you know unconstitutional?

That's a bad comparison.  There's nothing inherent in women that would make them less able than men to make up their own minds.  There is, however, something inherent in little kids that would make them less able than adults to make up their own minds.  At five years old, there are very, very few people that would even understand what politics is, let alone understand it enough to make an informed decision.  It's much more likely that they'd just think it's a silly, fun game that Daddy gave you where you have to put the X beside the right name on a sheet of paper.

If you're honestly declaring an equivalence between the intelligence level of adult women and that of little kids by making your argument that this is what was said about women's suffrage, don't you think that's a little insulting to women?


I don't think people in jail should be able to vote.  Once they're out, I'm leaning towards fully restoring their full voting rights, but I think that if you do a crime, and hurt society as a byproduct, you should be given punishment, and one of the punishments should be forfeiting your ability to vote (and thereby have a further impact on society) while in prison.

Whether or not it's constitutional is entirely irrelevant, given that this is simply asking what you feel should be the case.

Voting is a right, not a privelege. It is a fundemental right. This is my belief, and is why I believe everyone should be able to vote.

When women were given the right to vote, many people used the very same arguments you are using. I am not saying they were right, of course. I find it very offensive that you would accuse me of such things as comparing the intelligence of a woman to a five year old. Voting is not about intelligence. We already let any old idiot vote, there is nothing wrong with letting five year olds vote. Just like your average idiot, a five year old wouldn't vote.

Not exactly.

"Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State."

(Fourteenth Amendment)

You do know we're both Canadian right? We have a different constitution here, and this has been through the courts, and prisoners are allowed to vote.

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strongly Disagree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Disagree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
Agree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
Strongly Agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
Agree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
Disagree (due to gov't funding part)

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
Agree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
Strongly Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
Disagree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
Disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
Agree (especially when it comes to illegal immigration)

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
Agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
Strongly Disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
Agree (19)

Wow, you live in a backwards hellhole.

It's a secret ballot. Women can make up their own minds. Kids almost always agree with their parents.

The power to vote is the power to destroy. It is the power to apply force. If that is a right, then there are no other rights.

Well, evidently, we simply see voting in two different lights, and as such, are likely going to have to simply agree to disagree.

Personally, I see voting as a means through which the citizens of a country can decide the direction in which they want their country to go.  As such, I feel that only those who actually know what they're doing should be allowed to vote - I feel that voting is not a game; it's serious business, and those who don't take it seriously and just vote for someone for the heck of it (or whatever) only serve to hinder the ability of the government to truly represent the will of the people.

Take this example as an analogy: suppose that there are five people in a car, including the driver.  The car comes to a fork in the road.  The driver and the front passenger have been through this area numerous times, and they have a pretty good idea regarding  which direction they should go.  They put it up to a vote regarding where they should go.  The two in the front both vote for the left fork, because they've been here before and are pretty sure that that's where they should go.

However, the three in the back all vote for the right fork.  They've never been here before and are totally unfamiliar with the area, but they voted purely because they wanted to have a say in the matter.  Thus, the five go down the right fork and find out that, indeed, the two in the front, who actually knew what they were talking about, were right, and that the left fork was the correct option.

Now, the three might have been correct by sheer dumb luck, but the odds are not very high.  I view this as analogous to voting on a grand scale: the people who have no idea what they're doing might steer their country onto the right track by dumb luck, but it's much more likely that their ignorance will simply lead the country astray and counteract the efforts of those who actually know what they're doing.

Now, of course, one's job is significantly more difficult when you feel this way about voting, to be sure.  It would be very nice if you could neatly separate voters into two groups - "capable of making an informed decision" and "incapable of making an informed decision" - but you can't, and as such, simple statistics must be brought into play.  Your best bet is to simply draw a line in the sand, one that minimizes both the number of knowledgable people being barred from voting and the number of unknowledgable people allowed to vote.  Personally, I think that 18 is an acceptable line, albeit slightly arbitrary, as no extensive research has yet been done into when exactly people tend to become knowledgable.  I think that such research would be very beneficial, actually.

Gabu's in the U.S., though, so the context there was not clear.

Sauvé v. Canada was not, in my opinion, correctly decided. Section 3 of the Charter of Rights cannot be interpreted in a vacuum; the right to vote granted there is not absolute, as Section 1 explicitly provides.

I think you live in a vacuum, Emsworth :P

This is not to be offensive.  Please do not take offense :-(

That insult sucks, ILV. ;)

It does, until you realize IT'S TRUE! :o

I shall even make a diagram.

I was more making a lame reference to the word "vacuum".

If I can be propagated in a vacuum, then I must be... light! Which means that I can move faster than you.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. D

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. D

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. A

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. A

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. SA

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. SD

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. SA

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. SD

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. SD

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. A

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. SD

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. SA

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. D

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. SD

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. SA

()

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW

oh

Of all people to represent me, you had to choose an actor?

I just searched 'India'.

And I thought he looked vaguely familiar.  Isn't he that guy from Crossing Jordan?

()

Now you're Manmohan Singh.  Would you rather be someone else?

Singh is much more reasonable than a mere actor. (But just to note, I bear no resemblance to either, or to any other celebrity whatsoever.)

To get back on topic, the Canadian Charter of Rights does not, Chief Justice McLachlin's assertions to the contrary notwithstanding, guarantee prisoners the right to vote. The whole decision predicates itself on the concept that denying felons the right to vote is not a "reasonable limit" (per Section 1).

As Justice Charles Gonthier put it, "the disenfranchisement of serious criminal offenders serves to deliver a message to both the community and the offenders themselves that serious criminal activity will not be tolerated by the community." Disenfranchisement is indeed nothing but a punishment, and is a perfectly reasonable limit on the rights of felons.

Well, the bottom line is they can now vote, and that is because of how the constitution was interpreted. Just like gay marriage.

Yes, of course, but on the other hand, the issue of whether the Charter required gay marriage was never decided by the Supreme Court.

I suppose you are aware of the court cases earlier in the year, so I am guessing you mean they technically didn't make the decision. However, they have ruled that sexual orientation is included as something that can be descriminated against.

Yes, the provincial courts were the ones who made the decision (except in Alberta, IIRC)

Well, Alberta wasn't the only one, but that's neither here nor there.

Just because an argument was incorrect when used against one movement (woman suffrage), it is not necessarily incorrect when used against another (child suffrage).

It comes from the same fear of a segment of the population voting. It's all poppycock in the end. 

It has nothing to do with fear. It has to do with responsibility and maturity.

Incidentally, do you believe that insane persons should be able to vote?

Yes, as they do now.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strong Disagree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
No Opinion

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
Disagree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
Agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
Disagree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
Disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
Disagree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
No Opinion

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
NO DENNIS

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
No Opinion

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
Its a problem, but not one of the worse

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
Agree/Disagree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
Disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
Strongly Agree, lowered to 18

I'm interested in your answer to this question: what do you believe the purpose of voting is?

Am I missing something? Are you looking for some philisophical answer?

Do you believe that children should have the right to keep and bear arms?

I doubt he does, because he doesn't think adults should either

Well he seems to believe that everyone, no matter their age, have every single fundamental right, and the right to bear arms is fundamental. If we're going to treat five year olds like adults we might as well be consistent. :)

Yes, I agree. The next time a five-year old steals candy from a store, let's charge him with larceny and put him in jail for a year.

Oh, I agree with that too. It is for this reason, I believe those under 18 should not be accountable to the law, because they are denied voting rights.

As for "the right to bear arms" that is not a fundemental right, it's just something Libertarians create as an excuse to keep guns to make up for their small penises :D

Wow!! Just... WOW !!! HAHAHAHAHAHHA

At least we don't have small minds like some people here. ;)

It's not made up by modern Libertarians; it's been accepted for over three centuries. The English Bill of Rights also declares that there is a right to bear arms.

In the words of the famous jurist Sir William Blackstone:

"In vain would these rights be declared, ascertained, and protected by the dead letter of the laws, if the constitution had provided no other method to secure their actual enjoyment. It has therefore established certain other auxiliary subordinate rights of the subject, which serve principally as barriers to protect and maintain inviolate the three great and primary rights, of personal security, personal liberty, and private property...

The fifth and last auxiliary right of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defense [which] is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self-preservation."

Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strongly Disagree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
agree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
Strongly agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
Eeeeh yes (well dooh) Strongly agree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
Strongly agree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
agree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
disagree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
agree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
agree (My own land instead US of course) with some small disagreement

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
disagree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
agree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
Strongly disagree, as long as it´s not "hate speech"

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
Don´t care

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strongly Agree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strongly Agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
Strongly Disagree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
Agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
Agree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
Strongly Disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
Agree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
Strongly Disagree- It's called the Secretary of State.

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
Strongly Agree!

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
Strongly Disagree- The Immigration 'problem' is racists standing at the border trying to stop people from coming into our country. The country that has an immigration problem is the corrupt Mexican government. If you wanted to come here from Mexico legally, honestly, you'd have to bribe a lot of people.

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
Library Records and credit card use- Strongly Agree. Gun Purchases- Stronly Disagree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
Strongly Disagree.

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
Strongly Agree.

The U.S. is one of the few countries where this is a right. I hardly call that fundemental.

If the U.S. was the only country that allowed free speech, would that make free speech not a fundamental right?

1. Disagree
2. Agree
3. Disagree -After all, it's only natural.
4. Strongly Agree
5. Agree
6. Disagree
7. Undecided.  States is gonna love this.
8. Strongly disagree.  No race is better than any other.   Government-sponsored eugenics?  Hitler's Final Solution ring a bell?
9.  Strongly Disagree.  This is the job of the Departments of Defense and State
10. Strongly disagree
11. Strongly Agree only if it is ILLEGAL immigration, otherwise Disagree.
12. I can't see what they would want with this, unless for the gun purchase there is a background check on suspicious activities.  Otherwise, agree for the most part.
13. Agree, but it depends on who the user is and if they are a criminal/terrorist or not; if so, then disagree
14. Disagree -depends on what is said
15. Strongly disagree

That's not the case though! Why? because freedom of speech is a fundemental right.  Gun ownership is not a fundemental human right, I'm sorry.

good point. one of the things I have to agree with you! besides the Waffle House hashbrowns

No, that's not why, nor is it relevant. If everyone else on the planet is doing something wrong that does not make it right if you do it too.

I know it's not about the rest of the world. It's just evidence that the rest of the world doesnt think it is a fundemental right. The rest of the world is more likely than the U.S. to be correct on things, however.

The rest of the world not thinking it's a fundamental right doesn't make it not a fundamental right. True or false: people have a fundamental right to defend themselves.


My, we're not arrogant at all, are we? Just a brilliant argument you've brought to the table here.

Why is it arrogant to think its more likely that 6 billion people are right than 400 million.

But that doesn´t mean that it´s 6 billion who is right it´s just more likely.

Well, I think that the actual majority of the population lives in less educated countries for one thing. Europe, Australia, and others are educated as well, but you've also got countries like China and India that have tons of people who are mostly not really that educated.

You can't base the argument on numbers alone.

How can someone be 'right' about something being a fundamental right or not?  I mean, unless two people agree to a pre-determined framework for determining what is and is not a 'fundamental right' (say, some offshoot of Kant's Catagorical Imperative or something), there is no way for one of them to be 'wrong' since the two people would be operating from different frameworks.

It's like arguing that "6 billion people agree with me that red is a better color than blue" or "Ricky Martin is a better singer than Cher."
 

It's just a philisophical argument. You try to convince someone else that your philosophy is better than theirs, so they move into the framework you think in if you succeed.

I will agree that the right to bear arms is not as significant as (for example) the right to life. However, it is a very important auxiliary right, which derives from the fundamental right of self-preservation. It is, in a sense, a corollary of the right to life, and is therefore fundamental.

I would have to agree. In this case, I think that a general framework of accepting the right to life and self-preservation would work.

You have the fundemental right to own a gun just as I have the fundemental right to own a computer they are both objects of possession. Ok, guns are used as self defence, but no other weapons seem to be fundemental rights? I dont have the fundemental right to own mace, or to own a bomb, or to own a knife. What makes firearms so special?

There's nothing special about guns. You have a fundamental right to own a knife, as well, or in fact anything else suitable for your personal defense. There is a "right to keep and bear arms," not a "right to keep and bear firearms."

So you have the right to own a nuclear bomb then? Very well. Just because the U.S. does it, doesn't make it right. No one should have the right to own anything highly dangerous, except the police and the army.

I said "suitable for your personal defense." A nuclear bomb does not qualify.

That does not exclude a nuclear bomb. I could "personally use" a nuclear bomb.

With all due respect, I did not say "suitable for your personal use." I said "suitable for your personal defense." A nuclear bomb is not suitable for your personal defense.

Your argument now operates from the assumption that a 'fundamental right' cannot have arbitrary limitations.

It is if I am being attacked by various rogue states!

This is great.  North Korea and Iran are going to attack Earl's house!

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Strongly Disagree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Strongly Disagree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. Disagree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. Agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. Strongly Agree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. Disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. Disagree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. Strongly Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. Strongly Disagree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. Disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. Disagree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. Strongly Agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. Agree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. Strongly Disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. Strongly Disagree

A nuclear bomb is by its very nature not used for personal defense, but only to attack.

You're starting to get into defintions that dont mean anything. They're both weapons, they're both used for attacking.

A gun can be used in defending oneself from lawless attack. A nuclear bomb, by its very nature, cannot.

The right to bear arms is indeed subject to certain arbitrary boundaries, but, then again, so is almost every other right. The right to free speech, for example, does not cover libel, slander, or fighting words. The right against double jeopardy does not preclude a second trial if the first results in a hung jury. The right to property is limited by taxation. If all of these rights can be reasonably limited without overstepping the bounds of logic, then so can the right to bear arms. I don't see why there should be a distinction here.

I disagree.


Except that the right to bear arms is not a fundemental human right.

So if I am about to rob your home, you will use a nuclear bomb against me?


Except that the right to bear arms is not a fundemental human right.
That's a fundamental disagreement we have, then. I feel that there is a fundamental right to self-preservation and to resistance to tyranny, from which there flows the auxiliary right to bear arms. You don't.

If a rogue state were to invade my home, a nuclear bomb would come in very handy :)


There certainly is a right to defend oneself, but I dont think it is a God given right to have a gun to do so.  If you need a revolution, then the right to own a gun wont really help  you.  It's the same government that gives you those rights that you are fighting against. It's a double standard.

What, you plan to blow up yourself and the entire surrounding area to defend your house? I don't think that qualifies as self-defense.


Hardly a double standard. Just because a government at one point respects your right to do something does not mean that government will always respect it. Once the government does try to take away the right, it becomes time to exercise it.

"The real beauty of the second amendment is that it is absolutely meaningless until they try to take it away." - Thomas Jefferson

And you say that we have a right to defend ourselves, but how would you expect people to do that in this modern world without the aid of a weapon? With their bare fists? If you are attacked by someone stronger, or by a large group, or anything similar, your physical force will not allow you to defend yourself adequately. In this modern world, the single most effective means of self-defense is a gun. Denying law abiding citizens the right to own a gun is tantamount to denying them the right to defend themselves, therefore gun ownership is a fundamental right so long as the right to defend oneself is also fundamental.

No right, I believe, is "God given." God has nothing to do with it. 

The rest is as John Dibble said above.

If a revolution becomes necessary, there will be means of getting a gun if necessary.  There are also other ways of defending yourself than to use guns. There is absolutely nothing fundementaly inherent about the right to an object of any sort. Democracy is not an object, speech is not an object, life is not an object. Weapons are.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. SD

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. A

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex. D

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. A

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order. D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. A

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have. D

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government. SD

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration. SD

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16. SA

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. D

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use. A

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened. D

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech. A

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. D

Dave

It is more difficult to attain weapons once the government forbids them. Yes, it's possible, but if you need to commit to a revolution you want to be armed immediately and beforehand.



With your bare fists? You haven't answered my question - how in this modern world can a person be expected to defend themselves sufficiently without one? Do you expect women to defend themselves from a rapist with her bare fists? Do you expect someone to stop themselves from getting mugged by a group of thugs with a knife?


You don't have a right TO one, but you have the right to own one so long as you have the right to self defense. You deny people their right to self defense if you deny them the right to own a firearm. Allowing people to own firearms is essential to the preservation of liberty.


Back to the subject of five year olds getting to vote - you say they should because it is a fundamental right. Now tell me this: Do they have the right to free speech? If yes, then you support making it illegal for parents to punish them for cursing. You need to face the facts - children are not mature enough to have the same rights and privileges as adults, and any sane society recognizes this.

I disagree. If the people want it enough, the lack of immediate firearms is not going to stop them.

When was the last time a woman defended herself from rape with a gun? They use mace. Knives are also a good thing. The bottom line is, if the attackers have no gun either, there is nothing to worry about. Sure, there will be a black market, but even in just a well regulated area, crimes invaulving firearms are rare. (like here).


No more than I have a right to this computer. It's an object too.


They do have the right to freedom of speech, but only the government can take that away, not their parents obviously. If they chose to live with their parents, they are tennats and have to abide by the rules of the dwelling.

It is more difficult to attain weapons once the government forbids them. Yes, it's possible, but if you need to commit to a revolution you want to be armed immediately and beforehand.


However they will be at a fundamental disadvantage if the need for revolution arises.


1. Here's a couple examples. Only a gun control nut would think a raped woman is superior to a dead rapist.
http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/firearms/crime/defense/mar1994/rapist.html
http://iafrica.com/news/sa/351374.htm

If more women carried guns, there would be less attempts at rape.

2. Mace will not necessarily stop a rapist, and it's virtually useless against a group. More info:
http://www.users.fast.net/~behanna/mace.html

It is especially ineffective if the criminal is on some sort of drug like PCP or some other drug that might dull pain.

3. When law abiding citizens can't have guns, only criminals will. And even if they don't, they will have a fundamental advantage anyways - criminals generally prey on those weaker than themselves, but when the defender has a gun the criminal's strength no longer matters. So either you can have a level playing field where the weak can have adequate defense or you can

4. Knives have the highest injury rate for the victim among any means of self-defense, even higher than non-resistence. Guns have the lowest - in fact in most cases where a gun is employed for self-defense the criminal will run away without a shot needing to be fired. A 120lb woman is not going to have much of a chance in hand to hand combat with a 250lb rapist.

Further, melee weapons take time that most people do not have to become proficient with.


Yes, a five year old is going to choose to go live on his own. ::)

You are aware that child labor is illegal in most countries that have freedom of speech, right? So how do you propose children who decide to leave the nest survive. Sheesh, I'm glad most people in society don't believe in this nonsense.

I disagree completely. But I think, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.


Giving people more weapons is not the solution to these problems. You will only create a society of fear by weaponizing everyone. Mace is a great alternative to firearms I think.


Group rapes are very rare. Again, weaponizing people is not the answer.

Sure criminals will have guns, but they will be very difficult to attain, and there will be less of them, and therefore less problems.
Again, criminal acts involving guns are rare in societies that have strict gun laws.


The numbers for accidental deaths due to guns going off accidentaly is huge. They are a dangerous weapon.




They can't survive, and that is why they have to live with their parents.

Calling my views as nonsense is a real low blow, Mr. Dibble. I certainly dont think democracy is nonsense.

This statement seems to imply that because a majority is opposed to guns, there should be no right to guns. If so, I would have to absolutely disagree. Rights are and ought to be absolutely independent of the whims of the majority.

Abolishing the voting age, giving the right to vote to 4 year olds, and fining parents who force their kids to vote the way they want them to... is nonsense.

This way, the libertarian party can win the popular vote.

It is extremely offensive that anyone would feel democracy is nonsense. I believe that democracy ought not be restricted based on anything, including age. Why is this so hard to comprehend? I like democracy, I think it is a good thing, it should have restrictions.  That is my belief. I dont call your beliefs nonsense.

Wow, you are the absolute dumbest person I've ever met in my life. Now we're going to let four year olds decide what our rights are. I guess that's better than Democrats, but still not ideal. A better method needs to be worked out.

 you. You're the last person who should be talking about democracy.

And if my reasoning skills were as poor as yours, I might actually think that opposition to democracy means one should not oppose a form of democracy. Thankfully they're not, so I can just laugh at that post.

You're free to believe whatever you wish, but that's no reason to call me the dumbest person ever. I have my beliefs about democracy, just as you do.

I'll clarify my question a few pages back regarding your thoughts on the purpose of voting.  I like democracy because I feel that a large, informed populace can better dictate where a country should go than any other form of government.  If an elected official is doing a bad job, an informed populace will be able to identify this, and replace that official.  Obviously there will be disagreements, but I feel that if the people at least know somewhat what they're talking about, that the general consensus reached through democracy will steer the country in the wrong direction.

This is why I don't feel that five-year-olds should vote: five-year-olds are - face it - incapable in general of being informed at all about pretty much any issue under the sun, and are much more likely to vote purely based on who they feel like, who has the funniest name, or whatever.  Given that, in almost every case, there are a lot more wrong decisions to be made than right decisions, choosing completely randomly as a five-year-old would probably do is very likely to heavily dilute the efforts of the informed among the populace to steer the country in the right direction.  Quite frankly, I feel that allowing people who are almost 100% likely to have no idea what they're doing to steer the direction of an entire country is a very dangerous thing to do.

In short, I feel that allowing five-year-olds to vote would hurt a country, because it's essentially placing someone who doesn't know how to drive behind the wheel of a car.

On the other hand, you seem to be treating democracy as an end, rather than a means to an end - i.e., that it doesn't matter what the democracy produces - it can run a country into the ground and thrust everyone into poverty - as long as we have as much democracy as possible.  It's for this reason that I ask you what you feel the purpose of voting is.  Why is democracy a good thing even if it runs a country into the ground and makes its citizens badly off?

Again, you guys are focusing too much on the five year olds. Not enough five year olds would cast proper ballots for the election to be swayed in their favour. It's not like all hell is going to break loose if this happens. And just to be on the safe side, I am in favour of lowering the voting age by a couple of years every decade or so, to make it more gradual. But you have to understand the principle I believe in, is that I believe everyone should have the right to vote. There are always going to be uninformed voters, adding to that number will never be a problem.

Why is this a reason to make there be a lot more uninformed voters?  What benefits do you exactly see coming from allowing five-year-olds to vote?

It's not about benefits, its about a fundemental right. I suppose, that's the benefit. A fundemental right will be extended to everyone, regardless of age.

That doesn't answer the question.  You can't just say "it's a fundamental right, so everyone should be able to do it".  Who gets to define what's a fundamental right and what isn't?

It's what I believe, that's why I support my plan. Of course, you don't have to agree with me. I just think it is a fundemental right.

If one must be consistent, then, children should also bear the same responsibilities as adults?

So the next time an infant hits someone else while playing, let's put him in jail for assault and battery.

Why?

And you say it's not about benefits; if it benefits no one whatsoever to do something, then why do it?

I've already stated my opinion on this.

Well, what benefit did giving women the right to vote? The answer to this is similar to the answer the question you are asking.

It allowed a group of people to contribute to the electoral process who had been barred for no real reason whatsoever, given that they were just as able to be informed as men, which is the major difference between giving women the right to vote and giving children the right to vote.  I don't understand why you keep bringing up women's suffrage when I've repeatedly shown why the two cases are very different.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strongly Disagree- An inmate can be too easily coerced.  If there were a way to assure that an inmate's true intention could be expressed on a ballot, then perhaps I would agree.

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
Strongly Agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
?  It's none of my business how much someone else thinks about the topic.

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
Strongly Agree.

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
?  "Order"?  What is that?

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish
Agree (maybe)
and should be funded by the government.
Strongly Disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
Agree- but definitions are obviously needed

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
Strongly Disagree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
Strongly Disagree- It would be better to gear Defense to securing the peace.  Additional bureaucracy to oppose another government agency would be ridiculous.

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
Strongly Disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
Disagree- The actual arrival of additional residents is not the problem.

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
Strongly Agree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
Strongly Disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
Strongly Disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
Strongly Agree - to whatever the draft (and voting) age is.

I think there are some perfectly capable people under the age of 18 as well, Gabu- who are just as informed than those over the age of 18. This is just another step in the suffrage movement.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
-Strongly Disagree
2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
-Agree
3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
-Agree
4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
-Agree
5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
-Strongly Agree
6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
-Disagree
7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
-Agree
8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
-Disagree
9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
-Disagree
10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
-Strongly Agree
11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
-Agree
12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
-Disagree
13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
-Disagree
14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
-Strongly Agree
15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished. 
-Strongly Agree

Well, of course there are some, but each time you decrease the voting age by one year, the number of uninformed voters will increase practically exponentially.

Lowering the voting age is really stupid. And, Earl, you don't think that every parent will make sure that their kids vote the way they want? Ever heard of voting through someone else? Disabled people and the likes grant their right to vote to someone else because they can't physically perform teh act (the person is supposed to cast the vote in teh way the disabled person wants to). There will be a lot of new-borns voting that way, I can assure you. And you acn't strip them of that right, since that would be undemocratic right? :P

The voting age should probably be higher than it is today. Most young people make horribly poor judgements on political issues.

The only people who have to fear when law abiding citizens are armed are the criminals who would seek to harm them. I swear, gun-control advocates often act as if putting a gun in someone's hand will make them a berserk killer or something. ::)

I've already pointed out that mace is not sufficiently effective. I does not immobilize the criminal to the degree that they are unable to harm you, and in some cases it's completely ineffective.

And once again I repeat that using guns as self-defense has the lowest injury rate to the victim of ALL other self-defense methods.

()

I'd also like you to explain it to me why gun ownership in the US has been going up(along with an increased amount of concealed carry states) while crime in the US has gone down over the last decade.


Rare doesn't mean you shouldn't be prepared for it.


Yes, apparently you are fine with a society where the weak are easily preyed upon by criminals. In a society where the law abiding can protect themselves with guns, they have an equalizing force that makes the criminal's superior strength not matter anymore.


Typical anti-gun tactic - make up stuff about the 'huge' number of accidental gun deaths. But if you actually bother to look up the truth, you'll find the number of gun deaths is extremely small compared to the other ways you can die:

http://www.torontofreepress.com/2005/tabor010405.htm

Doctors: (A) There are 700,000 physicians in the U.S. (B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians total 120,000 per year. (C) Accidental death percentage per physician is 0.171.

Guns: (A) There are 80 million gun owners in the U.S. (B) There are 1,500 accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups. (C) The percentage of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.0000188.

Statistically, then, doctors are 9,000 times more dangerous to the public health than gun owners. Fact: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR. Following the logic of liberals, we should all be warned: "Guns don't kill people. Doctors do."


Not just counting doctors, there are tons of other accident types that kill far more than 1500 a year, and considering that guns in the hands of the potential victims save far more lives than that I think it is worth the trade off.


Democracy isn't nonsense, but letting five year olds have equal political standing to adults is. I think Gabu and others cover pretty much why this idea is nonsense. Do you advocate letting kids drive, work, have sex, drink, and everything else that adults can do?

But for obvious reasons, newborns can't make political decisions in the first place. And lowering the voting age is not stupid. As long as the person voting is educated about the issues, why shouldn't they vote? It's age discrimination.

Have you ever met a five year old that was adequately informed on political issues?

Why do people act as if discrimination is a bad thing?

It could if they're already prone to going berserk, but they happen to have a gun on them when they go beserk :P as was the case of some murder last year in Minneapolis.  No, I cannot remember when/where this was, so I can't provide any evidence.

Oh, and there was also a murder of some bouncer by a guy with a concealed gun this year :P (at least, I think it was concealed; I'm about 95% sure it was legal)


For one, that fails to account for people who have multiple guns (I can't fathom a reason why you'd actually want to collect guns, but ::))

For two, that figrue most likely includes guns that would not be used for crime (hunting, etc.)

However, I see no reason why the two must be correlated.  The population increased in the last decade, while crime in the US has gone down!  Internet use has increased in the last decade, while crime in the US has gone down!  They must be related!

  One could attribute the decreasing crime rate to the generally increasing level of US education (right? :P), or the fact that the US had a generally prosperous economy in the '90s, making socioeconomic indicators of a high crime rate go down.

Besides, 'crime rate', just like 'guns', is much too vague.  What are the statistics for murder and rape like?

I'm sure you can easily explain off my concerns and provide a million more graphs, but I feel like making a pithy attempt to at least provide some argument for gun control :P

There was a little kid that was on the news a few months ago because he was interested in politics. And there are a lot of 18 year olds who aren't adequately informed on political issues either.

Discrimination is a good thing?

It depends. "Discriminating" on the basis of age when it comes to voting, for example, is not something I object to.

Indeed. Discrimination is telling unlike things apart. Discrimination isn't inherently bad. When you decide on the which cereal you are going to buy at the store, you discriminate the difference between cereals.

Discrimination isn't a problem, prejudice however is, but to be prejudiced your reason for discrimination has to be irrational. If age discrimination is prejudice, and you say we shouldn't have that discrimination, then please start allowing five year olds to have drivers licenses and allow them to work.

Okay, so the news decided to do a story on the 0.000001% of little kids who are actually interested in politics (note that "interested" does not necessarily translate into "informed").  How does this justify allowing the uninformed 99.999999% to vote?

Discrimination is a good thing.

Because all informed voters have the right to vote :)

You still have yet to justify that statement or state why we should do that (beyond simply stating "it's a fundamental right" with no explanation or justification given).  Letting in all informed voters below 18 (a very small group, relatively speaking) will also let in all uninformed voters below 18 (a much larger group), thoroughly negating the positive aspect of gaining a handful of new informed voters.

It's the same as a court system.  In a court, there are the "obviously guilty" and the "obviously innocent" (these are very few and far between), and then there's the middle ground.  It's impossible to separate these groups, and we don't (or at least, most don't) want to convict every single person - that would convinct a ton of innocent people - or let every single person go free - that would free a ton of guilty people.  Thus, we must establish some standard of judgement that minimizes both guilty people freed and innocent people convincted.

In the voting populace, it's the same deal.  There are the "obviously informed" and the "obviously uninformed" (again, these are very few and far between), and then there's the middle ground.  Again, here, unless we want to let everyone vote, which would result in a ton of uninformed people voting, or bar everyone from voting, which would result in a ton of informed people being barred from voting, we must establish some standard of judgement that minimizes both uninformed people being allowed to vote and informed people being barred from voting.

This is a basic concept from statistics.  Of course, you want to let everyone vote purely because it's allegedly "a fundamental right" (a statement which you have neither justified nor even defined), but I would prefer to minimize those two groups, so the above must apply.

Well, Gabu- the difference between you (and most everyone else) and me is that you have something against uninformed people. I on the other hand, look past their misguidedness, and still want them to have the same priveleges as the rest of the citizenry.

I don't have anything against them as people.  I simply don't see why letting all the uninformed people under the sun would be beneficial to society.  I view democracy as a means to an end - the end is the betterment of everyone under the democracy - and I feel that letting everyone vote who has no idea what they're doing would not help democracy better the lives of the people under the democracy.

The fundamental question to which I can't see an answer is this: if the democracy does not make the people's lives better, what good is it?

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

A

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

SA

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.

SD

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

SD

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.

D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.

A

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.

D

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.

A

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.

A

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.

A

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.

D

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.

A

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.

SD

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.

SD
15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.

A- to age 18

He asked me a question and I answered it. I don't think people should have to wait until they are 18 to be able to vote. As long as they are informed about the election. I do think that the age to vote should be around 12, not 5.

Well, why reduce it to only 12, and not to 5, if we want to let all informed people vote?

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
SD

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
A

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
A

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
SA

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
D

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
D

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
D

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
D

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
A

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
A (illegal immigration more specifically, i don't have a big problem with legal immigration)

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
A

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
SD

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
D

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
D

Can anyone see the politicians pandering for the votes of little kids?

"If elected, I'll have ice cream served free with your school lunch!"
"Well if you elect me, I'll have cake served in class daily!"

;D

A big issue in my school in 2000 was that Gore supposedly wanted school uniforms :P

 Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.-Agree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.-Agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.-Agree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.-Agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.agree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.-disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.-disagree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.-agree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.-agree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.-disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.-disagree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.-disagree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.-disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.-disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.-Strongly Disagree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.  Strongly Disagree.

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.  Strongly Disagree.

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.  Agree.

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. Strongly Agree.

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.  Strongly Agree.

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. Strongly Disagree. 

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.  Agree.

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.  Strongly Disagree. Eugenics Wars, anyone?  *Is an obessed Trekie.

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.  Strongly Disagree.

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.  Strongly Disagree.

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. Agree.  Illegal Immigration is a problem, Legal Immigration isn't.

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.  Strongly Agree.

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.  Strongly Agree, but the people doing the taping should be required to prove that the person is a Terrorist/Criminal.  That should be the only restriction.

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.  Strongly Disagree.

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.  Unsure.

Why the hell not?  Someone screws up and they lose all of their rights even after they're out of jail?

The right to apply the overwhelming, near invincible force of the state must be guarded carefully. I'm sorry, someone who raped a twelve year old shouldn't be voting to lower the age of consent or something.

Exactly, if they screw up badly enough.  I see no reason to go easier on criminals.  They're already not punished nearly enough for their crimes, in my opinion.  There are many, many, many causes that would attract my support long before a cause to gratuitously benefit people who have committed serious crimes.

If you got every child molester to vote, lowering the age of consent would still fail miserably.

Anyway, someone who has served their jail sentence and repaid their debt to society should be able to vote.

Can a murderer ever truly repay his debt to society?

Honestly, I probably could be brought around to supporting allowing ex-felons to vote a period of time after they are off parole, and haven't gotten into any additional trouble.  That would probably be very few of them.

But I just can't see this as an issue that I should care about.  I see no reason to gratuitously do something nice for criminals.  They are a scourge on society, and their prison terms are rarely anywhere near long enough, in my opinion.

And I doubt too many of them care about voting anyway.  Plus, if they vote, they'll vote Democratic (itself an indictment of the Democratic party).  So I see no reason to support it, while there are other unresolved problems in society.  This is right at the bottom of my list.

I disagree. I see oppression as a bad thing.

Yes.  If they commited a crime they should pay the price.  All I see this as is an attempt to get votes by the Democratic Party.  I may consider changing my opinion if one Republican, even a moderate one, decides to support this, but for now, Hillary and you are not enough to convince me.

Forgive me, but I find it rather difficult to fathom that you are so partisan as to support something only if some Republican does so.

I think what he meant is that he'd then consider it, since it wouldn't be pure politics. Not that that makes sense either, but it's different from being hyper-partisan.

We need to bring back that "Laughing Stock of Atlasia" title.  First of all, I see your attempt to sabotage the right to vote as a way to take away votes from the Democratic Party and to help the Republicans.  I didn't realize that Hillary and I were the only proponents of voting rights.  I believe that the state of Nebraska has restored voting rights to its ex felons, and Iowa is considering it.  Very liberal states, right?

If the Democratic Party needs the votes of outlaws to win, the Democratic Party needs to be outlawed.

By the way, someone who actually thinks murderers in jail should be able to vote shouldn't be complaining about other people's views on voting rights.

Would you say the same thing if ex-felons leaned Republican?  How about in a close race?

This isn't about felons, it's about ex-felons.

Yes. I don't want murderers voting period. I don't care if they support my party or not, because I'm not a partisan hack.

An ex-felon is a felon.

I don't support letting ex felons vote because it will help the Democratic party; I support letting them vote because they're citizens.

So are plenty of four year olds.

Citizens who are old enough to vote.

You're just stating your position. That some people should be able to vote, and others shouldn't, and that people who commit crimes of extreme cruelty should be able to rule.

People who commit crimes of extreme cruelty should be able to rule?  I didn't say nor imply that; they should just have the same voting rights as anyone else.  Also, it's unwise for a Republican to state their dislike of people who commit acts of extreme cruelty ruling.  After all, I consider administering executions and going to war extremely cruel.

The ability to vote is the ability to rule.

I don't really care what some four year communist considers extreme cruelty.

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

SD

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

SD

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.

A

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

N

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.

SA

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.

SD

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.

D

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.

SD

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.

SD

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.

SD

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.

A

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.

SD

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.

SA

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.

SA

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.

SD

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
SA
2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
SA
3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
D
4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
A
5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
SD
6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
A
7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
SA
8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
SD
9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
A
10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
SA
11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
SD
12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
SA
13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
SD
14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
SD
15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
SA