Talk Elections

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-bishop-communion,0,191450.story

"BLACKWOOD, N.J. -- The incoming leader of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Camden said that he would not serve Holy Communion to Gov. James E. McGreevey, a divorced Catholic who supports abortion rights."

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This is terrible.  Just pathetic.

If you are against the church, why should you be able to take part in its most sacred practice?

We've had this debate before. The church has every right to decide who they want to give communion to, and if a person is in sin, or is against church doctrine, you can't recieve communion- easy as that.

As i've stated before, Communion in it's own meaning means you must be 100% in communion with the church- we're all in the community of Christ's body. But if somebody doesn't believe in something, he's not in Christ's body, and therefore cannot participate in communion.

Fortunately, John Kerry did NOT recieve communion in a Catholic Church, but a reformed heretical "catholic" church, which was more similar to a liberal lutheran or anglican church.

He is not 'against the church'.  He does not agree with every last thing the pope (or some other bishop or w/e they call them) says.

Just so you know, I am Catholic, and I would never support denying Communion to anyone.  It is simply hypcritical, and I want yall to know that every Catholic isn't an idiot.

He is certainly not WITH the church. The pope has said abortion is wrong, and that cannot be questioned as the pope is infallible. He is AGAINST fundamental Catholic doctrine, and therefore should be excommunicated. He is a heretic.

If you excommunicate all pro-choice catholics you excommunicate a helluva lot of people...like RUDY GIULIANI (REPUBLICAN).

(Giuliani is also against a PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION BAN!  OFF WITH HIS HEAD!)

I am not for excommunicating Giuliani, but am I do support denying him communion

Good point. A majority of Canadians are Catholics.

Only 45% of Canadians are Catholics. Most of those are Quebecers(who aren't even real Canadians).

Excommunicating someone is removing them from the body of Christ.  By denying them Communion you are doing just that.

1) Working out % of religion in a given country is next to impossible. About 45-50% seems fairly accurate...
2) Quebec voted to stay in Canada. So they are Canadians.

McGreevey has already removed himself from the body of Christ. Communion is for believers.

Your attitude is unchristian

Denying someone Communion based on his sins is totally hypocritcal.

And being pro-choice is not a sin.

Nobody is denying anyone communion for thier sins. they are denying them communion for thier support of sin.

Eh?

Good point.  Having an abortion would be the sin.

Why, because I think people should be held responsible for thier actions? You don't know the first thing about Chistianity. Christ only forgives those that want to be forgiven, not those that support anti-Christian behavior without remorse.

Abortion is a sin. The church does not deny communion to women who have had abortions and are remorseful for thier sin. It should deny communion to those who support that sin.

Er... I think I know a little bit about Christianity seeing as I base my moral and political beliefs on it...
Hatemongering is Unchristian.
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BTW exactly who will be saved is a complex theological debate going back hundreds of years... Look at the different predestination theories.

First of all, whatever Unitarian beliefs you have are not Christian.

Following Christian teaching is not hatemongering.

Predestination(the version to which I am sure you are reffering) is a heretical Protestant theory to which I do not subscribe

1) I am not a Unitarian (I'm a Methodist)
2) Hatemongering is not Christian teaching.
3) Predestination is not heretical (I'm not sure if it's right or not though) and Protestantism is not heretical.

1) Just as bad
2)Once again, following Chuch doctrine is not hatemongering.
3) Predestination rejects free will( Catholic doctrine), and therefore is heretical. Protestantism rejects many Christian teachings and is heretical

Sectarian bigot

If faithful Catholics are sectarian bigots, then I'm guilty as charged! :)

Why do you support excommunicating McGreevey, but you do not feel the same way towards Giuliani?  Their stance on abortion in exactly the same.

Go away and read the Bible...

I would imagine you're talking to aaron.

Giuliani is not trying to defy anybody or make a political statement. McGreevey has come out publicly and has said the church is wrong.

Your the one who bases your "moral and political beliefs" on something you don't understand.

I understand it

Now you guys see why I stay away from religion?  Look at the hatred it causes.

If you understand the Bible then you would have a problem with people like McGreevey.

I'm through here...you two go rip each other's heads off.

Aaron, are you completely brainwashed?

BTW, where are you in Virginia? I'm in Lynchburg

I don't like McGreevey anyway... but banning him from communion is wrong...

Welcome back, Duke Fan!

The Church can do whatever it wants....

I knew this Newark cop who told me that McGreevey used to attend gay sex orgies when he was the mayor of Newark, New Jersey.  He swears it.  So, if true, its a double whammy, he loves aborting babies and he loves gay sex.  No communion for him.  The priesthood, maybe, but no communion.  

OK, I guess I let my Jr. Member status go to my head.  I was way out of line with the above post.  Plus, he was never the mayor of Newark.  He was the mayor of Woodbridge.  I can't stand him.  

you're an offensive idiot

Senator Harry, sorry, I was out of line with that post.  As soon as I wrote it, I wish that I hadn't.  

I do hate McGreevey though.  Its one thing to sit in your house as a Catholic and have your beliefs about being pro-choice.  Entirely another to campaign on the abortion issue, use it to garner votes, accept massive campaign contributions from Planned Parenthood, Emily's List, NARAL etc.  Those organizations are funded in part from the money that women spend on abortions.  Abortions aren't free, I would imagine that the scared women who walk into the abortion clinics pay hundreds of dollars to have their baby aborted.  Some of the money goes to the clinic to pay the staff, some goes to the corporate PParenthood and some of that makes it to political candidates.  As a good Christian, I find abortion repulsive and an abomination.  I could never in good conscience, support any candidate who is pro-choice.  Someone like Rudy G., otherwise qualified, would lose my vote over the abortion issue.  My litmus test is, if a candidate can't say "I am pro-life" then that guy ain't getting my vote.  

What Al (the fellow Methodist :)) said.

I went to a Catholic wedding once.  It was really sweet and touching (I almost got a little teary because of a combination of my hormones, the setting and the traditionalist way of doing it, and the fact that the bride was my favorite cousin :)), except for the fact that my mom (a former Catholic) told me not to go up to recieve communion because she thought she remembered they didn't give it to non-Catholics.

Sheesh.

that is correct about Communion.

and fellow Catholics will think this quite signifant--I was confirmed today.

Congrats :)

You're not Catholic if you believe that. That's actually heresy you're saying.


Yes he is. If he doesn't like something the church says and so simply goes against it, he's against the church, and therefore not in communion. He's heretical.


Yes, Rudy Giuliani isn't truly a Catholic, and neither are most nominal Catholics today.

And yes, being pro-choice is very much so a sin. Being pro-choice is equally as bad as being pro-holocaust.

I meant that I wouldn't support denying communion to anyone who is Catholic.

Well, yes. You cannot deny sacraments to CATHOLICS, but Kerry is not Catholic; he's excommunicated (anyone who supports abortion with full knowledge of Chruch teachings is automatically).

funny that you'd say that when you just on another board encouraged capital punishment to be more common--it too has been condemned by the church.
we should all try to be less judgmental.
and if Kerry wants Communion, it should be given to him--God can decide what to do with him, but we should not

The Catholic Church doesn't have an opinion on the Death Penalty. The Pope has an opinion,  but it's non-doctrinal. Many Cardinals are pro-death penalty.

You lower the quality of your whole post with a last line as blatently disgusting as that one.

If one believes that abortion is murder then why should they not feel it is comparable to the holocast? In fact it would be much worse. 43 million compared to 6.

The people in the holocaust felt pain, and lots of it.  Most (not all, but most) aborted pregnancies do not.

I realize that, but I was just saying that if one believes abortion is murder I can see thier reasoning behind connecting the two

And the Nazis intended to cause their victims to suffer; women seeking abortions aren't trying to cause anybody's suffering.

A good 10 million of the children killed by abortion feel pain.

But is something really not bad if they don't feel pain? "Oh, as long as they don't feel it, it's okay!"

That is DISGUSTING.

How do you know the unborn babies don't feel pain.  How would you know?  

Look, abortion is disgusting.  Using a vacuum to suck an unborn living baby out of a mother's womb, where the baby should be the most safe, is horrible and utterly so.  No one can honestly say they think its right.  Its always "well, I would never have one, but why should I tell someone they can't."  There are so many other options.  

My paternal grandfather was Eastern Orthodox and he never converted to my grandmother's Roman Catholicism.  They attended mass together at a catholic church and the monsignor who married them and gave them communion apparently didn't have a problem with it.  They raised their eleven children in the Catholic church.

Russian Orthodox are in the KATHOLICOS community, even though they are not in communion with the Pope. Meaning, they have apostolic authority to do their stuff, but they disagree that Peter is the head of the Church. The Catholic Church allows Orthodox to recieve communion at a Catholic mass whenever they want, but a Catholic must ask the Orthodox priest if they want to recieve communion.

Members of the Orthodox churches and the Assyrian church are considered to be in communion with Rome and can receive the Eucharist.

That's not true. Some Eastern Rite Catholics are joined in communion with the Church- these include the Byzantine "Greek" Catholics, the Byzantine "Ukranian" Catholics, Armenian Catholics, Assyrian Catholic Church of the East, Chaldean Catholics, Syro-Malabar Catholics (st. Thomas Christians), and dozens of others. However, the Russian Orthodox, the Ukrainian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, and several others are NOT in full communion with Rome. They accept that the Pope is the patriach of the Church of Peter, and the successor of him, but they don't believe he has supremecy over the other aposotlic successors. Nonetheless, they are still allowed to recieve communion since they ARE in apostolic succession.

Tariq Aziz?  would you share your last wafer with him?