Talk Elections

One thing that concerns me deeply about the next election is the implementation of paperless electronic voting machines. Last thing I had read, 1/3 of the votes would be tallied in such a manner. The problem is that the voting machines being used do not give the user any kind of physical confirmation of their vote. No reciept, or anything. Just a screen saying "Thanks for your vote!" This means that results could be tampered with, and there would be no paper trail with which to recount. These amchines have already failed in elections in Maryland, Virginia, and Mississippi. These machines have also proven to be easily hacked in forms hindering the electoral process.

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/

What are your thoughts on this?

This is one of the few areas where I am opposed to change. I don't trust balloting corporations, and the idea of these machine being intentionally hacked to alter results are scary.

Thanks for the welcome, friend.

The Democrats cried about this so much and wanted it so badly after 2000. Why are they complaining now? Floridas Electronic voting has paper backup.

I will admit that it's a possible concern.  Of course, the voting machines here look to be about 50 years old and are simple levers, so I'm not that worried about ours.

This does make me very nervous.  I think that traditional voting machines are fine, but I prefere the paper ballot.

Welcome, by the way.

I'm hoping this electronic 'voting' puts Bush over the top.

I'm VERY concerned.  With no paper trail, this is like a pregnant chad, only invisible.  There is a lot of room for problems and, uh, "errors."

This is especially true since Walden O'Dell, Chief Executive of Diebold, the company which makes the touch screen voting devices, is also fund-raising for Bush.  In a fund-raising letter he was quoted as saying "I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

Paul Krugman covered it in a New York Times article that you can read for free here:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1202-02.htm

I wonder if Fidel Castro will have to offer to help us with our recount again this year, like he did last time.  I really hope not.  

I didn't even know that the companies manufacturing these machines were tied to Bush. That is rather disturbing, and makes me even more concerned now...

I love the old-fashioned lever booths.  They seem pretty good to me.  Though a receipt would be nice...

Blue opebo!

I support electronic voting, but only so long as there is a receipt so that a recount is possible.

But otherwise I strongly support it, as it will lessen the risk of mistakes being made and votes not being counted properly.

I used these to vote in the 80's in MA. I never understood the hue and cry about a receipt, especially from leaders in the Dem states that have historically used the lever machines.

^^^^

I would prefer a scan-tron like ballot over the touch screens used in Ohio even if we do have a paper receipt.

Pencil+paper, maybe +magnetic scanning machine=best system.

How does this work when you have a 100 different races on the ballot, and dozens of different ballot combinations in a single county?  How do you make sure that voters get the correct ballot, especially for early voting?

Reduce the number of races to simply be: local races, state race and national race. None of this electing people for ever position.

100 races on the ballot is not a great situation for most voters. Chicago has situations that approach this with races to elect and retain judges tacked on the end of the ballot. The voters and press routinely complain.

One solution to long ballots is to run local races at a different time from the state and federal races. We used to run two different local elections, further separating the offices, in the spring and fall of odd years, but the expense associated with the election forced a consolidation about ten years ago.

I like the scantron-type ballot. For early voting, I recommend an electronic device that can print the scantron ballot as needed for the voter. This minimizes the advance printing costs.

All the better to allow people to vote early and vote often! ;)

More seriously, any feedback on how Estonia did with it's internet voting in election just concluded?

I just counted.  It was only 96 in 2006:

Straight Ticket.
US Senator
US Representative

Governor
Lt. Governor
Attorney General
Comptroller
Land Commissioner
Ag Commissioner
RailRoad Commissioner

Supreme Court 5 judges
Court of Criminal Appeals 3 judges

State Senator
State Representative

Appeals Courts Judges 10

County Judge
County Clerk
County Treasurer

District Judges 37

County Law Judges 23

County School Trustee 2

Justice of Peace

But even if they did away with all the judges (or even just their election), there would still be all the combinations of races, which are mainly due to the combination of state senate, state representative, US representative, county commissioners districts, and JP districts.

Can you guarantee the print quality?  In Texas, most early voting is in person.

I did say approach, not exceed. :)

Can you guarantee the print quality?  In Texas, most early voting is in person.
[/quote]
I've worked in non-election events, where people checked in to get a form. With two (or three) networked computers and two printers, we never had a problem getting a custom-printed form to each person.

In the case of the optiscan voting it would not be hard to have the scanned part pre-printed, and then just add the ballot choices on the side column as needed by the individual voter. It's no worse, and probably better, than a printed vote slip at the end of a voter's use of an electronic voting machine.

What do you mean by a side column?

A typical ballot could have two columns of offices. For each office there are a number of candidates and ovals to mark one's choices. In the column the candiadates names appear on the left side and the voting ovals on the right. It is possible to leave some of the names for races off the ballot if it varies by precinct in the county. Those names can be printed on a generic ballot for the voter during check-in. The printing shouldn't interfere with the scanned ovals.

Internet voting? WTF?

Estonia allowed voting over the internet in its most recent election (just a couple of weeks ago). IIRC it was the first national election worldwide to do so.

Texas permits voting by astronauts on the ISS.

How would you ensure that I got the right combination of US representatives, state board of education, state senators and representatives, county commissioners, constables, and JPs on my ballot?

In many cases, the district offices are for 4 years, with staggered terms, so I may or may not vote for a state senator, for example, based on my precinct.  There are also provisions for removing uncontested races from the ballot.

How would you check for undervotes or overvotes?

How large of ballot paper is required for 100 races?

If the paper is alignhed correctly there shoudl be little problem. Tnhe addition of a printed bar code or equivalent can be used to detect misaligned ballots. In any case the ballots are paper and available for a recount.

I was only proposing to print the races that were on the current ballot. In IL uncontested races must remain on the ballot.

The bar code I suggested earlier can also notify the reader about the expected fields that should be marked.

Cook county judicial ballots are a problem for any system of voting.