Talk Elections

Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion => International Elections => Topic started by: Michael Z on June 10, 2004, 05:21:09 PM



Title: UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 10, 2004, 05:21:09 PM
So I went and participated in four separate elections today. London Mayoral elections, London Assembly, Local Council, and European Parliamentary elections.

One thing that does bother me as I watch the election coverage unfolding on television is the rise of the UK Independence Party. To me they seem like the nastiest bunch of Little Englanders, a party whose sole policy rests on the wish to take this country out of the European Union. I find it absolutely disgraceful that anyone would want to pursue a policy like that, after all our continent has been through. We spent centuries fighting wars with each other simply because we spoke slightly different languages or believed in slightly different things or fancied this or that bit of each other's territory. The EU, for all its faults, is a wonderful thing in principle. It ensures that countries which were once at each other's throats can co-operate in harmony and peace. And yet some idiots want leave all that behind, go back to the Europe of yore, the Europe of Hitler and Napoleon, and worse some people are perfectly willing to cheer them on. It's a disgrace.

The EU is far from perfect but it is better improved upon from within. Not by ignoring all the good it has achieved and leaving it altogether. Not that this will ever become government policy of course, but a good performance by the UKIP may result in a rightward shift in the general policy on Europe, and that can only be a bad thing.

[/rant]


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 10, 2004, 05:29:28 PM
The UKIP better not get a seat. It would be bloody embarassing in my opinion.

Are you watching it on BBC Newsnight?

They were interviewing people outside the polling station about their votes and some woman came out and said they were trying to "keep politics out of it". The guy just started laughing and said "this is an election".

What a fool that woman was, heh.

I think Ken is going to stay as Mayor.

I believe UKIP also supports isolationism and not trading with anybody don't they?

They have Robert Kilroy Scum Silk in their party, thus, I have no respect for any of them. The man said that all Arabs were terrorists for Christ's sake.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 10, 2004, 05:43:24 PM
The UKIP better not get a seat. It would be bloody embarassing in my opinion.

I said my piece on the UKIP. But yes, they are a total embarassment.

Quote
Are you watching it on BBC Newsnight?

They were interviewing people outside the polling station about their votes and some woman came out and said they were trying to "keep politics out of it". The guy just started laughing and said "this is an election".

What a fool that woman was, heh.

Yeah, I was watching that too. I did like the elderly couple though, they were kinda sweet.

Quote
I think Ken is going to stay as Mayor.

Ken will probably be re-elected, albeit by a very narrow margin. If some of the polls are to be believed he's neck-on-neck with Steve Norris. Shame that Simon Hughes isn't doing so well in the polls, he was actually my first choice mainly on grounds of his public transport policy (he wants to lower tube fares, which is definitely a big issue for me). I bumped into him when he was campaigning in Hyde Park and he seemed like a genuinely nice and affable fellow. He comes across much better in real life than on television, where he just appears stiff.

Quote
I believe UKIP also supports isolationism and not trading with anybody don't they?

Yes. They call it "standing on our own two feet." ::) Classic example of Little Englanders, right there. Living in a cosmopolitan place like London it's easy to forget that there are still people like this in our country.

Quote
They have Robert Kilroy Scum Silk in their party, thus, I have no respect for any of them. The man said that all Arabs were terrorists for Christ's sake.

I can't stand Kilroy-Silk either. In fact I loathe the man. He is a total opportunist, and that's about the nicest thing I can say about him.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: bullmoose88 on June 10, 2004, 06:05:33 PM
Erm...Go Tories and LDs...>P

Can't decide which I'd like to see win.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Tory on June 10, 2004, 07:19:55 PM
Erm...Go Tories and LDs...>P

Can't decide which I'd like to see win.

Pull for the Tories. We need all the help we can get, especially with those raving mad UKIPers running around stealing all of our votes!!!


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 10, 2004, 07:23:54 PM
Erm...Go Tories and LDs...>P

Can't decide which I'd like to see win.

Pull for the Tories. We need all the help we can get, especially with those raving mad UKIPers running around stealing all of our votes!!!

Do you think a good (or even semi-decent) performance by UKIP will reignite the Tory party's internal quarrels over Europe? I personally would hate to see that happen, because we need a credible opposition now more than ever, not one which keeps destroying itself over a single issue like Europe.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Tory on June 10, 2004, 07:29:05 PM
Erm...Go Tories and LDs...>P

Can't decide which I'd like to see win.

Pull for the Tories. We need all the help we can get, especially with those raving mad UKIPers running around stealing all of our votes!!!

Do you think a good (or even semi-decent) performance by UKIP will reignite the Tory party's internal quarrels over Europe? I personally would hate to see that happen, because we need a credible opposition now more than ever, not one which keeps destroying itself over a single issue like Europe.

The UKIP has the potential to destroy everthing The Conservative Party has worked for. The current form of our party is still in infancy. If Labour is to fully work for the people it needs us to keep it in check. If we get embarassed by these loonies we can kiss our hopes of a quick comeback goodbye.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 10, 2004, 07:38:14 PM
Erm...Go Tories and LDs...>P

Can't decide which I'd like to see win.

Pull for the Tories. We need all the help we can get, especially with those raving mad UKIPers running around stealing all of our votes!!!

Do you think a good (or even semi-decent) performance by UKIP will reignite the Tory party's internal quarrels over Europe? I personally would hate to see that happen, because we need a credible opposition now more than ever, not one which keeps destroying itself over a single issue like Europe.

The UKIP has the potential to destroy everthing The Conservative Party has worked for. The current form of our party is still in infancy. If Labour is to fully work for the people it needs us to keep it in check. If we get embarassed by these loonies we can kiss our hopes of a quick comeback goodbye.

I totally agree with that, a scenario like this would be extremely unhealthy for our democracy and only add fuel to Blair's autocratic tendencies if the Tories remain in a dysfunctional state. Still - Tory and "old" Labour, quite the unlikely alliance there. But anyway, let's hope the UKIP is simply an overhyped fad which won't be able to translate headlines into election figures.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: bullmoose88 on June 10, 2004, 07:45:30 PM
Erm...Go Tories and LDs...>P

Can't decide which I'd like to see win.

Pull for the Tories. We need all the help we can get, especially with those raving mad UKIPers running around stealing all of our votes!!!

Stealing your votes?

We learned this lesson 8 and 12 years ago...they're not your votes...you have to earn them.

Looks like the Tories aren't having as good (still decent) of a showing as they'd like


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Tory on June 10, 2004, 07:59:04 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3796075.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3796075.stm)

It looks like the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives are doing well in the council elections, but it's far too early to make any solid judgements. The Lib Dems gain an even larger presence in Liverpool. The Greens take a seat in Oxford and Manchester(I actually like the Greens and hope they do well).

The British National Party failed to gain ground on Burnley Council, losing one seat to the Conservatives but gaining one from Labour.

Tory chairman Liam Fox said his party had won "spectacular results" in Tamworth and Trafford, but the Conservatives failed to take their target seat of Carlisle.

The UK Independence Party has won a council seat in Hull and is averaging 19% where it has put up candidates. Boo



Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 10, 2004, 09:19:45 PM
Many of the Green seats in Oxford (my town) were on a knife edge before the election, especially my ward, which had a Lib Dem majority of about 12 over the Greens, it didn't take much of a swing. They will probably go into coalition with the Lib Dems to control the council

Oxford Result:
Party - No of seats in 04 (Change)
Lab - 20 (-9)
Lib Dem - 18 (+3)
Green - 7 (+4)
Other - 10 (+6)
No Conservative Councillors.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 04:12:35 AM
Many of the Green seats in Oxford (my town) were on a knife edge before the election, especially my ward, which had a Lib Dem majority of about 12 over the Greens, it didn't take much of a swing. They will probably go into coalition with the Lib Dems to control the council

Oxford Result:
Party - No of seats in 04 (Change)
Lab - 20 (-9)
Lib Dem - 18 (+3)
Green - 7 (+4)
Other - 10 (+6)
No Conservative Councillors.

Ouch.

So far I think Labour have lost 211 Councillors and the Tories have gained something like 101.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 04:27:38 AM
God... local politics... I ing hate the way that ing local politics is done over here...

As far as the results go these are LOCAL elections folks, LOCAL here that? LOCAL... they offer no guide to the next general election (or national trends).
The BBC's reporting has been dire. Absolutely dire. Almost biased.
They do that WORTHLESS poll thingy ("who won the most votes in total in the LOCAL ELECTIONS") and are using it to claim that this is Labour's worst result in living memory.
Bullsh**t.
Back in the late '60's (when we had a sane local government system) the Tories controlled just about every council in the country... and in the late '70's the Tories swept the board again.
I repeat again: these are LOCAL ELECTIONS they will have utterly no effect on the General Election and any idiotic reporter that says so should be shot.
---
BTW I'm happy that local gun-nut far right Tory Albie Fox (who none of you will of heard of) went down in Shrewsbury. This is what local politics should be about.
Tell the national media to  off will ya?


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 04:46:46 AM
I know these are no indications of the General Election, I never said they were, merely that Labour have lost a lot of councillors in these elections.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 04:57:15 AM
I know these are no indications of the General Election, I never said they were, merely that Labour have lost a lot of councillors in these elections.

I know that.
I've just been REALLY PISSED OFF by the biased slanted news coverage... and the INSANE struture of "local" government in the U.K...

What should have been reported was competent councils (Liverpool, Barrow in Furness) get re-elected and the unpopular Mayor of Stoke on Trent getting punished... :)


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 06:20:31 AM
Something else that's bad: a well run council (Newcastle-Upon-Tyne) is almost certain to be defeated as a result of the Iraq war (NUT has a lot of Progressive Yuppie types).
Way to go idiots.
They'll  it's finances up like they do everywhere else.
People in Sunderland will be laughing in the street (oh yeah: in the rest of the North East Labour have done fairly well).


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 06:26:03 AM
Labour hold Gateshead (a working class suburb town across the river from NUT).
They'll be laughing as well.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 11, 2004, 07:21:34 AM
But then the Labour Council in Oxford was pretty incompetent and got its marching orders. Lots of money wasted on city centre improvements that had to be improved within a few months didn't go down too well with the electorate. I was particularly amused that the Labour Mayor himself was defeated.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 11, 2004, 07:27:32 AM
If you've been watching the 1 O'Clock news Al, you will probably be screaming because the BBC have pretty much called the next general election for the Tories.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 07:29:15 AM
If you've been watching the 1 O'Clock news Al, you will probably be screaming because the BBC have pretty much called the next general election for the Tories.

LOL. Oh dear! Not going to happen methinks.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 07:56:03 AM
But then the Labour Council in Oxford was pretty incompetent and got its marching orders. Lots of money wasted on city centre improvements that had to be improved within a few months didn't go down too well with the electorate. I was particularly amused that the Labour Mayor himself was defeated.

Fair enough. Incompetent councils deserve to go down.
The LibDems have won control of NUT, but with a smaller majority (18 seats) than I had expected.

---
Wales news:

Labour are likely to win back RCT and Caerphilly from Plaid, while losing overall control in Swansea (after a scandel involving the local Leisure centre) where it still has the most seats, and Cardiff (which may be more of a vote against the controversual council leader... but he's blaming the whole D-Day row. The LibDems might win the most seats on Cardiff City Council, partially because of the Progressive Yuppies and the Iraq War).
A mixed bag really... something for everyone.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 07:58:46 AM
If you've been watching the 1 O'Clock news Al, you will probably be screaming because the BBC have pretty much called the next general election for the Tories.

Is that some form of sick joke or something? Has the BBC gone gaga or something?


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Umengus on June 11, 2004, 08:06:15 AM
God... local politics... I g hate the way that g local politics is done over here...

As far as the results go these are LOCAL elections folks, LOCAL here that? LOCAL... they offer no guide to the next general election (or national trends).
The BBC's reporting has been dire. Absolutely dire. Almost biased.
They do that WORTHLESS poll thingy ("who won the most votes in total in the LOCAL ELECTIONS") and are using it to claim that this is Labour's worst result in living memory.
Bullsh**t.
Back in the late '60's (when we had a sane local government system) the Tories controlled just about every council in the country... and in the late '70's the Tories swept the board again.
I repeat again: these are LOCAL ELECTIONS they will have utterly no effect on the General Election and any idiotic reporter that says so should be shot.
---
BTW I'm happy that local gun-nut far right Tory Albie Fox (who none of you will of heard of) went down in Shrewsbury. This is what local politics should be about.
Tell the national media to f**ck off will ya?


Sorry Al but I don't agree. Some people vote at local with national reasons. it's maybe bad but it's the case...

"Government ministers and analysts agreed the Iraq war and violence since had taken its toll, with election returns raising new doubts about Blair's future as British PM in his seventh year in power." I'm not alone to think that.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 08:12:04 AM
Sorry Al but I don't agree. Some people vote at local with national reasons. it's maybe bad but it's the case...

True to a certain degree, but LOCAL elections are a really, really, really bad way to measure political changes... (otherwise the following would have been P.M's: Foot, Kinnock, Hauge, IDS)


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 08:14:35 AM
Sorry Al but I don't agree. Some people vote at local with national reasons. it's maybe bad but it's the case...

True to a certain degree, but LOCAL elections are a really, really, really bad way to measure political changes... (otherwise the following would have been P.M's: Foot, Kinnock, Hauge, IDS)

Al, see nomorelies' post in the 2004 Election Discussion, he is talking about this. You may have something to add to the discussion.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 08:26:50 AM
Sorry Al but I don't agree. Some people vote at local with national reasons. it's maybe bad but it's the case...

True to a certain degree, but LOCAL elections are a really, really, really bad way to measure political changes... (otherwise the following would have been P.M's: Foot, Kinnock, Hauge, IDS)

Al, see nomorelies' post in the 2004 Election Discussion, he is talking about this. You may have something to add to the discussion.

I swore at him a bit :)


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 08:29:25 AM
Sorry Al but I don't agree. Some people vote at local with national reasons. it's maybe bad but it's the case...

True to a certain degree, but LOCAL elections are a really, really, really bad way to measure political changes... (otherwise the following would have been P.M's: Foot, Kinnock, Hauge, IDS)

Al, see nomorelies' post in the 2004 Election Discussion, he is talking about this. You may have something to add to the discussion.

I swore at him a bit :)

I saw :) He is just quoting bits from the BBC, he failed to quote this though:

This would give the Tories a result on a par with its local election results achieved under William Hague's leadership in 2000.

Hmmm.... I don't recall Hague winning the General Election the following year.....


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 08:29:46 AM
Really, really, really, really, really bad news... the BBC is reporting that the NSDAP BNP have picked up 3 seats in Epping Forest :(


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 08:31:37 AM
Really, really, really, really, really bad news... the BBC is reporting that the NSDAP BNP have picked up 3 seats in Epping Forest :(

Urgh..... UKIP have picked up a seat in Hull and one in Derby. :(.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 08:35:23 AM
Really, really, really, really, really bad news... the BBC is reporting that the NSDAP BNP have picked up 3 seats in Epping Forest :(

Urgh..... UKIP have picked up a seat in Hull and one in Derby. :(.

The far right moveth... oh sh**t. The UKIP might do disturbingly well come Sunday


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 09:03:36 AM
Normal service is resumed in Rhondda-Cynon-Taff: http://www.rhondda-cynon-taff.gov.uk/Elections2004/index.htm (http://www.rhondda-cynon-taff.gov.uk/Elections2004/index.htm)


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: bullmoose88 on June 11, 2004, 09:51:45 AM
Yawn...Labour really shouldn't flip out...Its not Howard is actually going to become prime minister...in an age of live TV and internet...he looks like the Count himself.

He's running against a Labour government that is unpopular (relatively speaking) because of Iraq, because the economy hasn't been as strong (still doing decently) as before, and large amount of popular anger at the way Blair's handled the EU?

and he's only recieved 38%? on par with Hague and IDS?

Thats terrible for the Tories. With Iraq fading out of the picture and the world economy improving...

A Tory government isn't gonna happen this time...not until they put someone eloquent AND electable at the top...


The Liberal Democrats on the other hand...did pretty damn well/are doing well.

Thats the party to watch.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 09:55:52 AM
Yawn...Labour really shouldn't flip out...Its not Howard is actually going to become prime minister...in an age of live TV and internet...he looks like the Count himself.

He's running against a Labour government that is unpopular (relatively speaking) because of Iraq, because the economy hasn't been as strong (still doing decently) as before, and large amount of popular anger at the way Blair's handled the EU?

and he's only recieved 38%? on par with Hague and IDS?

Thats terrible for the Tories. With Iraq fading out of the picture and the world economy improving...

A Tory government isn't gonna happen this time...not until they put someone eloquent AND electable at the top...


The Liberal Democrats on the other hand...did pretty damn well/are doing well.

Thats the party to watch.

I agree with you on the Tories, not on the Liberal Democrats, they are really only prominent at the moment because of the war in Iraq, as it dies away from prominence, so will they, fading back to where they have always been.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: bullmoose88 on June 11, 2004, 10:00:48 AM
I see the LDs giving the Tories a run for their money--unless the Conservatives shape up--as the Loyal Opposition.

New Labour is so close to what was mainstream conservativism (or what normal tory voters would have voted for) that the Tories have been co-opted....

makes the LDs the natural opposition.

Unless Blair gets ousted and is replaced by someone who's a bit more socialist and old labour...then the Tories can move back to center...until then...they're more right than Labour on the policies people seem to vote for (I can't say of course which...since I don't live in the UK).

Tories really needed to break 40%...maybe Howard can get it done...my money is on that he can't.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 10:02:39 AM
Yawn...Labour really shouldn't flip out...Its not Howard is actually going to become prime minister...in an age of live TV and internet...he looks like the Count himself.

He's running against a Labour government that is unpopular (relatively speaking) because of Iraq, because the economy hasn't been as strong (still doing decently) as before, and large amount of popular anger at the way Blair's handled the EU?

and he's only recieved 38%? on par with Hague and IDS?

Thats terrible for the Tories. With Iraq fading out of the picture and the world economy improving...

A Tory government isn't gonna happen this time...not until they put someone eloquent AND electable at the top...


The Liberal Democrats on the other hand...did pretty damn well/are doing well.

Thats the party to watch.

Results were mixed for ALL parties (hey: these are local elections after all. The media seems to have forgotten that) and whoever is in power always does badly in them...
Like I said earlier what I get worried by is competent councils getting voted out because of things like Iraq. Ah yes... it is true... the most educated can be the most foolish...
But our whole local government structure is just... daft.
---
Re: the % of the vote thingy: that's just plain useless bullsh**t. Basically the BBC added the results for what they decided were "key wards" and did a bit of maths to get "national" results. That sort of gimmik is
a) Useless (hey: it SEATS THAT COUNT YOU IDIOTS. Oh and did I mention that these are local elections?)
b) Innacurate (for obvious reasons)
c) Useless
d) Making a mockery of "local" government.
---
As far as the LibDems being ones to watch, that's true, but not in the areas they did well out of protest votes today (hell, they've controlled L'Pool CC for 6 years and didn't even come close to winning back a Westminster Seat last time round), where I'd watch 'em like a hawk is rural areas (bye, bye Ollie, Theresa, David et al. You won't be missed)


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: bullmoose88 on June 11, 2004, 10:05:57 AM
They could have done a bit better in the south...that would really kill any Tory momentum for next year.

But yeah...I wouldn't worry about this...be thankful the voters chose to vote in a manner  (giving some votes to the LDs, Greens, and not an overwhelming majority to the Con's) and a time that would hurt Labour the least--relatively speaking.

By Next Year Labour should be fine.

I would like to see the Tories do a little better against UKIP though...those guys sorta worry me.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 10:13:20 AM
They could have done a bit better in the south...that would really kill any Tory momentum for next year.

Sunday (when the Euro results are announced) might do that all on it's own...

Quote
But yeah...I wouldn't worry about this...be thankful the voters chose to vote in a manner  (giving some votes to the LDs, Greens, and not an overwhelming majority to the Con's) and a time that would hurt Labour the least--relatively speaking.

Point.

Quote
By Next Year Labour should be fine.

Agreed

Quote
I would like to see the Tories do a little better against UKIP though...those guys sorta worry me.

UKIP are scary... and might come 3rd on Sunday :(


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: bullmoose88 on June 11, 2004, 10:19:05 AM
hah...a scenario where Al would want Tories to win...

a Tory MEP is better than a UKIP MEP....

heheh.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 11, 2004, 10:25:40 AM
UKIP consider themselves to be a "moderate" party.

Moderate compared to what? The BNP?


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 10:35:47 AM
UKIP consider themselves to be a "moderate" party.

Moderate compared to what? The BNP?

Or Norman "Chingford Skinhead" Tebbit? ;D


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 11:09:20 AM
UPDATE:

Leeds and Doncaster have gone NOC. Not suprising at all. Leeds CC includes a large suburban area (of the liberal yuppie sort), while the Labour council in Donny has been involved in more scandels than I can care to remember... (Donnygate anyone?)

Suprisingly they've kept their majority on Sheffield CC.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 11:52:35 AM
BNP has picked up 4 seats in Bradford >:(


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 12:04:09 PM
BNP has picked up 4 seats in Bradford >:(

Bugger.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 11, 2004, 01:52:14 PM

That is extremely worrying.

First Epping Forest, now Bradford (of all places). How many seats did the NSDAP BNP win in total?

I'd be lying if I said the rise of the far right didn't bother me.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 01:53:54 PM
My Constituency was carried by Labour.

Greenwich & Lewisham:

  NAME PARTY VOTE % +/- % VOTES  
  Leonard Duvall LAB 33.3 -9.2 36251  
  Gareth Bacon CON 20.4 -3.2 22168  
  Alexander Feakes LD 17.6 0.5 19183  
  Timothy Reynolds UKIP 12.4 0 13454  
  Susan Luxton GRN 10.4 -2.1 11271  
  Stephen Hammond CPA 3.3 0 3619  
  Ian Page RESP 2.6 0 2825

Large drop for Labour but they still comfortably carried it by 12.9%


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 01:55:45 PM
Overall GLA results:

CON - 31% (-2)
LAB -25% (-7)
LIB DEM 18% (0)
UKIP 10% (+10)
GREEN 8% (-2)
Respect 5% (+5)
TURNOUT 35% (+4)

Look at UKIP... Ouch!


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 01:57:32 PM
Yes I know, scary thing is, they did better than that in my constituency, 12.4%.....

Oh well, Labour still comfortably carried it..... I must find and remove those fascists though..... A friend of mine (he is a Conservative) actually likes their policies.....


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 11, 2004, 01:58:34 PM
If you've been watching the 1 O'Clock news Al, you will probably be screaming because the BBC have pretty much called the next general election for the Tories.

The BBC are still bitter over the Hutton Report. They're trying to cause a panic among Labour MPs so they get rid of Blair. I mean, look at this:

"How bad is it for Blair?"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3796497.stm

Dunno about you guys, but to me it seems the BBC may well have a little agenda going on here.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 02:00:45 PM
Ken's baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!


In other news: Labour have had a last minute surge in Brum (current count[seats]: Lab 46, Con 37, LD 22)



Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 02:01:38 PM
Urgh Bexley & Bromley Results:

 NAME PARTY VOTE % +/- % VOTES  
  Robert Neill CON 40.4 -6.8 64246  
  Duncan Borrowman LD 18.9 -2.8 29992  
  Heather Bennett UKIP 16.8 0 26703  
  Charles Mansell LAB 15.6 -6.4 24848  
  Ann Garrett GRN 5.1 -3.0 8069  
  Miranda Suit CPA 2.1 0 3397  
  Alun Morinan RESP 1.1 0 1673


UKIP beat Labour, 16.8% For crying out loud!!!!


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 11, 2004, 02:03:04 PM
Yes I know, scary thing is, they did better than that in my constituency, 12.4%.....

Oh well, Labour still comfortably carried it..... I must find and remove those fascists though..... A friend of mine (he is a Conservative) actually likes their policies.....

I have a nasty feeling about people like UKIP and the BNP, bearing in mind that most Germans didn't take Hitler seriously either during the mid-1920s (in fact the majority of Germans saw him as a laughing stock).

It probably borders on hysteria to suggest that what we see now is in any way comparable to the rise of European Fascism in the 1920s, but there are some historical similarities which do bother me. All it would take is a major economic crisis like the great depression and I may well have to consider emigrating to New Zealand.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 11, 2004, 02:04:04 PM
Urgh Bexley & Bromley Results:

 NAME PARTY VOTE % +/- % VOTES  
  Robert Neill CON 40.4 -6.8 64246  
  Duncan Borrowman LD 18.9 -2.8 29992  
  Heather Bennett UKIP 16.8 0 26703  
  Charles Mansell LAB 15.6 -6.4 24848  
  Ann Garrett GRN 5.1 -3.0 8069  
  Miranda Suit CPA 2.1 0 3397  
  Alun Morinan RESP 1.1 0 1673


UKIP beat Labour, 16.8% For crying out loud!!!!

In Bromley? Hardly surprising, to be honest.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 02:04:35 PM
If you've been watching the 1 O'Clock news Al, you will probably be screaming because the BBC have pretty much called the next general election for the Tories.

The BBC are still bitter over the Hutton Report. They're trying to cause a panic among Labour MPs so they get rid of Blair. I mean, look at this:

"How bad is it for Blair?"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3796497.stm

Dunno about you guys, but to me it seems the BBC may well have a little agenda going on here.

The coverage has been disgraceful.
Assinder is a pompus jerk anyway...


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 02:04:41 PM
Urgh Bexley & Bromley Results:

 NAME PARTY VOTE % +/- % VOTES  
  Robert Neill CON 40.4 -6.8 64246  
  Duncan Borrowman LD 18.9 -2.8 29992  
  Heather Bennett UKIP 16.8 0 26703  
  Charles Mansell LAB 15.6 -6.4 24848  
  Ann Garrett GRN 5.1 -3.0 8069  
  Miranda Suit CPA 2.1 0 3397  
  Alun Morinan RESP 1.1 0 1673


UKIP beat Labour, 16.8% For crying out loud!!!!

In Bromley? Hardly surprising, to be honest.

Yes but still.......


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 02:08:51 PM
Full Constituency Results:

Barnet & Camden:

Brian Coleman CON 35.3 2.4 47640  
  Lucy Anderson LAB 26.8 -5.7 36121  
  Jonathan Simpson LD 17.5 -0.2 23603  
  Miranda Dunn GRN 8.8 -2.9 11921  
  Magnus Nielsen UKIP 6.4 4.8 8685  
  Elisabeth Wheatley RESP 3.8 0 5150  
  Humberto Heliotrope CPA 1.4 0 1914


Bexley & Bromley:

Robert Neill CON 40.4 -6.8 64246  
  Duncan Borrowman LD 18.9 -2.8 29992  
  Heather Bennett UKIP 16.8 0 26703  
  Charles Mansell LAB 15.6 -6.4 24848  
  Ann Garrett GRN 5.1 -3.0 8069  
  Miranda Suit CPA 2.1 0 3397  
  Alun Morinan RESP 1.1 0 1673


Brent & Harrow:

Robert Blackman CON 34.0 0.8 39900  
  Toby Harris LAB 30.0 -7.6 35214  
  Havard Hughes LD 17.7 0.1 20782  
  Daniel Moss UKIP 6.1 0 7199  
  Mohammad Ali GRN 5.9 -3.1 6975  
  Albert Harriott RESP 3.9 0 4586  
  Gladstone Macaulay CPA 2.3 0 2734  


City & East:

John Biggs LAB 29.1 -16.9 38085  
  Shafi Choudhury CON 18.1 -1.4 23749  
  Oliur Rahman RESP 15.0 0 19675  
  Guy Burton LD 13.9 -4.6 18255  
  Christopher Pratt UKIP 13.8 0 17997  
  Terry McGrenera GRN 6.6 -5.4 8687  
  Christopher Gill CPA 3.4 0 4461


Croydon & Sutton:

Andrew Pelling CON 38.6 -2.0 52330  
  Steven Gauge LD 21.1 -4.5 28636  
  Sean Fitzsimons LAB 19.1 -5.7 25861  
  James Feisenberger UKIP 11.2 0 15203  
  Shasha Khan GRN 4.6 -2.9 6175  
  David Campanale CPA 3.1 0 4234  
  Waqas Hussain RESP 2.3 0 3108


Ealing & Hillingdon

Richard Barnes CON 32.4 -5.0 45230  
  Gurcharan Singh LAB 24.5 -7.2 34214  
  Michael Cox LD 16.8 -1.7 23440  
  David Malindine UKIP 10.5 0 14698  
  Sarah Edwards GRN 6.7 -3.1 9395  
  Dalawar Chaudhry IND 3.8 0 5285  
  Salvinder Dhillon RESP 3.0 0 4229  
  Genevieve Hibbs CPA 2.2 0 3024


Enfield & Haringey:

Joanne McCartney LAB 29.2 -3.0 33955  
  Peter Forrest CON 27.9 -1.3 32381  
  Wayne Hoban LD 17.0 3.6 19720  
  Brian Hall UKIP 9.2 0 10652  
  Jayne Forbes GRN 8.9 -1.2 10310  
  Sait Akgul RESP 5.9 0 6855  
  Peter Wolstenholme CPA 2.0 0 2365


Greenwich & Lewisham:

Leonard Duvall LAB 33.3 -9.2 36251  
  Gareth Bacon CON 20.4 -3.2 22168  
  Alexander Feakes LD 17.6 0.5 19183  
  Timothy Reynolds UKIP 12.4 0 13454  
  Susan Luxton GRN 10.4 -2.1 11271  
  Stephen Hammond CPA 3.3 0 3619  
  Ian Page RESP 2.6 0 2825  


Havering & Redbridge:

Jeremy Evans CON 34.6 -3.0 44723  
  Keith Darvill LAB 21.7 -8.3 28017  
  Lawrence Webb UKIP 14.2 0 18297  
  Matthew Lake LD 10.6 -2.3 13646  
  Malvin Brown RA 5.4 -6.4 6925  
  Ashley Gunstock GRN 4.7 -1.6 6009  
  Abdurahman Jafar RESP 4.0 0 5185  
  Juliet Hawkins CPA 2.3 0 2917  
  David Stephens TW 1.6 0 2031  
  Peter Thorogood IND 1.2 0 1597


Lambeth & Southwark:

Valerie Shawcross LAB 31.7 -5.9 36280  
  Caroline Pidgeon LD 26.9 4.7 30805  
  Bernard Gentry CON 15.2 -3.9 17379  
  Shane Collins GRN 10.4 -2.7 11900  
  Frank Maloney UKIP 7.7 0 8776  
  Janet Noble RESP 4.3 0 4930  
  Simisola Lawanson CPA 3.2 0 3655  
  Navindh Baburam IND 0.5 0 608


Merton & Wandsworth:

Elizabeth Howlett CON 38.8 -0.7 48295  
  Kathryn Smith LAB 25.3 -3.0 31417  
  Andrew Martin LD 14.4 3.5 17864  
  Roy Vickery GRN 8.2 0.8 10163  
  Adrian Roberts UKIP 6.7 0 8327  
  Ruairidh Maclean RESP 3.5 0 4291  
  Ellen Greco CPA 2.2 0 2782  
  Rathy Alagaratnam IND 1.0 0 1240


North East:

Jennette Arnold LAB 29.1 -7.1 37380  
  Terry Stacy LD 18.7 -2.5 24042  
  Andrew Boff CON 18.1 0.2 23264  
  Jon Nott GRN 13.0 -2.6 16739  
  Robert Selby UKIP 8.9 0 11459  
  Dean Ryan RESP 8.7 0 11184  
  Andrew Otchie CPA 2.5 0 3219  
  James Beavis CPB 1.1 0 1378


South West:

Tony Arbour CON 33.0 -2.4 48858  
  Dee Doocey LD 30.3 0.0 44791  
  Seema Malhotra LAB 17.0 -5.8 25225  
  Alan Hindle UKIP 8.4 0 12477  
  Judy Maciejowska GRN 6.7 -3.2 9866  
  Omar Waraich RESP 2.6 0 3785  
  Peter Flower CPA 2.0 0 3008


West Central:

Angela Bray CON 44.7 0.5 51884  
  Ansuya Sodha LAB 18.9 -8.2 21940  
  Francesco Fruzza LD 15.1 1.9 17478  
  Julia Stephenson GRN 9.3 -2.2 10762  
  Nicholas Hockney UKIP 6.2 0 7219  
  Kevin Cobham RESP 4.2 0 4825  
  Jillian McLachlan CPA 1.7 0 1993



Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 11, 2004, 02:13:37 PM
Havering & Redbridge:

Jeremy Evans CON 34.6 -3.0 44723  
  Keith Darvill LAB 21.7 -8.3 28017  
  Lawrence Webb UKIP 14.2 0 18297  
  Matthew Lake LD 10.6 -2.3 13646  
  Malvin Brown RA 5.4 -6.4 6925  
  Ashley Gunstock GRN 4.7 -1.6 6009  
  Abdurahman Jafar RESP 4.0 0 5185  
  Juliet Hawkins CPA 2.3 0 2917  
  David Stephens TW 1.6 0 2031  
  Peter Thorogood IND 1.2 0 1597

Ah, my local results.

UKIP in third place??? At any rate, what exactly does an anti-European party have to do with local issues?


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 02:15:32 PM
By the way, the number after the percentage is the percentage change since the last election.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 11, 2004, 02:15:43 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3799861.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3799861.stm)

The BNP beat the Greens in the Mayoral Race. Not good, not good at all


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 02:19:17 PM
I think these are first preference thingys:

Livingstone   Lab              685,541
Norris            Con              542,423
Hughes         LD                284,645
Maloney        UKIP             115,665
German         Resp./Gall.      67,731
    ?                BNP                58,541
    ?                Green             57,331



Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 02:21:14 PM
I think these are first preference thingys:

Livingstone   Lab              685,541
Norris            Con              542,423
Hughes         LD                284,645
Maloney        UKIP             115,665
German         Resp./Gall.      67,731
    ?                BNP                58,541
    ?                Green             57,331



BNP -  Leppert
Green - Johnson


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 11, 2004, 02:21:40 PM
Darren Johnson was the Green Candidate
Julian Leppert was the BNP candidate


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 11, 2004, 02:23:25 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3799861.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3799861.stm)

The BNP beat the Greens in the Mayoral Race. Not good, not good at all

No, it isn't. :(


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 02:26:45 PM
What were the 2nd Pref. votes?


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 11, 2004, 02:26:51 PM
Darren Johnson was the Green Candidate
Julian Leppert was the BNP candidate

Truth be told, Darren Johnson was an extremely lacklustre candidate for the Greens. He never aroused much sympathy in me. That and he took part in what had to be one of the worst party political adverts in history (some hip hop group rapping "Vote Green, keep it clean!" etc. It was extremely cringe-inducing and didn't do the Green Party any favours.)


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 02:27:54 PM
Darren Johnson was the Green Candidate
Julian Leppert was the BNP candidate

Truth be told, Darren Johnson was an extremely lacklustre candidate for the Greens. He never aroused much sympathy in me. That and he took part in what had to be one of the worst party political adverts in history (some hip hop group rapping "Vote Green, keep it clean!" etc. It was extremely cringe-inducing and didn't do the Green Party any favours.)

Was he the one with the weird teeth?


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 02:30:18 PM
Darren Johnson was the Green Candidate
Julian Leppert was the BNP candidate

Truth be told, Darren Johnson was an extremely lacklustre candidate for the Greens. He never aroused much sympathy in me. That and he took part in what had to be one of the worst party political adverts in history (some hip hop group rapping "Vote Green, keep it clean!" etc. It was extremely cringe-inducing and didn't do the Green Party any favours.)

Oh yeah! He was the one who rapped about his party on the radio! LOL!


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 02:32:47 PM
What were the 2nd Pref. votes?

We don't have them yet, all we have is what BBC has reported so far, only first preference votes.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 11, 2004, 02:43:45 PM
All first and second preferences for Mayor:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/london/html/front.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/london/html/front.stm)

These votes aren't right though,; They give a 16% turnout.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 02:47:07 PM
All first and second preferences for Mayor:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/london/html/front.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/london/html/front.stm)

Livingstone LAB 288925 34.3 110179 15.5 399104  
  Norris CON 257069 30.5 106002 14.9 363071  
  Hughes LD 127177 15.1 203143 28.6 N/A  
  Maloney UKIP 58319 6.9 93262 13.1 N/A  
  German RESP 36052 3.7 33444 4.1 N/A  
  Leppert BNP 29333 3.5 34723 4.9 N/A  
  Johnson GRN 26741 2.8 96810 11.9 N/A  
  Gidoomal CPA 22476 2.3 29925 3.7 N/A  
  Reid IWCA 4741 0.5 20295 2.5 N/A  
  Nagalingam IND 3843 0.4 11004 1.4 N/A


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 11, 2004, 02:48:34 PM
All first and second preferences for Mayor:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/london/html/front.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/london/html/front.stm)

Livingstone LAB 288925 34.3 110179 15.5 399104  
  Norris CON 257069 30.5 106002 14.9 363071  
  Hughes LD 127177 15.1 203143 28.6 N/A  
  Maloney UKIP 58319 6.9 93262 13.1 N/A  
  German RESP 36052 3.7 33444 4.1 N/A  
  Leppert BNP 29333 3.5 34723 4.9 N/A  
  Johnson GRN 26741 2.8 96810 11.9 N/A  
  Gidoomal CPA 22476 2.3 29925 3.7 N/A  
  Reid IWCA 4741 0.5 20295 2.5 N/A  
  Nagalingam IND 3843 0.4 11004 1.4 N/A


These numbers are far too low to be the actual results - looks the beeb ed up.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 11, 2004, 02:50:36 PM
All first and second preferences for Mayor:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/london/html/front.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/vote2004/london/html/front.stm)

Livingstone LAB 288925 34.3 110179 15.5 399104  
  Norris CON 257069 30.5 106002 14.9 363071  
  Hughes LD 127177 15.1 203143 28.6 N/A  
  Maloney UKIP 58319 6.9 93262 13.1 N/A  
  German RESP 36052 3.7 33444 4.1 N/A  
  Leppert BNP 29333 3.5 34723 4.9 N/A  
  Johnson GRN 26741 2.8 96810 11.9 N/A  
  Gidoomal CPA 22476 2.3 29925 3.7 N/A  
  Reid IWCA 4741 0.5 20295 2.5 N/A  
  Nagalingam IND 3843 0.4 11004 1.4 N/A


These numbers are far too low to be the actual results - looks the beeb f**cked up.

Not like the Scottish Elections *again*??????


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 03:03:19 PM
Okey dokey.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 11, 2004, 03:08:23 PM
Updated the Constituencies data, all reports now in.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: afleitch on June 11, 2004, 03:09:52 PM
I voted in Scotland on Thursday, European elections only up here. With a heavy heart, I voted Conservative. With such a split electorate, there are rumours that the Tories could come a close second or shock horror FIRST! Scotland has never been in on the whole Lib Dem thing, and its only geography that give them the seats that they do, and Tommy Sheridans socialists have divided opinion, equally loved and loathed by many. I even shouted at the man on Buchanan Street, Glasgow yesterday evening. In England, frustrated Labour voters often turn to the Lib Dems, but in Scotland the votes go everywhere. Hardcore votes go to the SSP, traditional Labour or 'old' Labour to the SNP, liberal minded voters to the Lib Dems, and middle class progressives like me to the Tories. It should be interesting to see what happens. No one party will take more that 25% up here.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 12, 2004, 04:35:38 AM
I've just noticed something odd about the local results. And it wasn't mentioned on the news or the BBC internet site:

This is a list of all the councils Labour lost overall control/lost to another party:

Newcastle
Leeds
Bassetlaw
Burnley
Cardiff
St Helens
Oxford
Ipswich
Swansea
Hastings
Doncaster
Bridgend
Slough
Tamworth
Thurrock

Of those, these have been involved in *major* scandels/dodgy leaders etc:

Cardiff
Oxford
Swansea
Doncaster

But most interesting is this. The following have large "Progressive Yuppy" population:

Newcastle
Leeds
Cardiff
Oxford
Ipswich
Swansea
Hastings
Slough

While the following have lots of [middle class] suburbs/commuting "villages":

Newcastle
Leeds
Bassetlaw
Cardiff
Swansea
Bridgend
Tamworth
Thurrock

Meanwhile this is a list of the councils that Labour won over control over:

Stoke
Hartlepool
Rhondda Cynon Taff
Caerphilly
Redditch
Newcastle-under-Lyme
Merthyr

Of those the following could be described as having a *very* large working class population:

Stoke
Hartlepool
Rhondda Cynon Taff
Caerphilly
Newcastle-under-Lyme
Merthyr

Go figure.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 12, 2004, 04:55:07 AM
Interesting, Labour is really picking up support from the working classes and losing the middle classes who were once very strong supporters.

The middle class is presumably now breaking for the Tories and Lib Dems, who did control of those councils go to?

It is an interesting development.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 12, 2004, 05:07:30 AM
Interesting, Labour is really picking up support from the working classes and losing the middle classes who were once very strong supporters.

The middle class is presumably now breaking for the Tories and Lib Dems, who did control of those councils go to?

It is an interesting development.

And yet has been ignored by the media. Which is strange... it's by far the most interesting trend (the same thing happend with the Welsh elections in 2003. ie: it's no fluke) and the only one that gives *any* clues to how the General election will shape up (my guess: a Wilson '66 majority).

Why has it been ignored? Are there no Psephologists in the BBC anymore? :(
---
NUT went LD, while Thurrock and Tamworth went Tory. All others are now NOC.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 12, 2004, 07:48:36 AM
Another example of extremely biased coverage: the Indie. Which has only written about results that fit into it's Iraq-obsessed editorial line.
Shame.
It used to be a quality paper.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Gustaf on June 12, 2004, 09:44:46 AM
So, do you guys have any predictions on the European elections?

Btw, is UKIP really that bad? I thought they cleaned out the racists, etc after the last election? Still, let's keep in mind that we're talking European parliament here...let 'em have it... ;)

We're stable, mature democracies, and we don't need an excessive, bureacratic, African farmer-starving organization to prevent us from engaging in silly wars...I mean, come on...


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 12, 2004, 09:45:31 AM
So, do you guys have any predictions on the European elections?

Btw, is UKIP really that bad? I thought they cleaned out the racists, etc after the last election? Still, let's keep in mind that we're talking European parliament here...let 'em have it... ;)

We're stable, mature democracies, and we don't need an excessive, bureacratic, African farmer-starving organization to prevent us from engaging in silly wars...I mean, come on...

UKIP support full withdrawal from Europe and an isolationist foreign policy I believe.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 12, 2004, 12:26:16 PM
So, do you guys have any predictions on the European elections?

Btw, is UKIP really that bad? I thought they cleaned out the racists, etc after the last election? Still, let's keep in mind that we're talking European parliament here...let 'em have it... ;)

We're stable, mature democracies, and we don't need an excessive, bureacratic, African farmer-starving organization to prevent us from engaging in silly wars...I mean, come on...

UKIP support full withdrawal from Europe and an isolationist foreign policy I believe.

And anti-immigrants. And homophobic. Oh... there ads contained racial slurs against other E.U countries.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Gustaf on June 12, 2004, 12:58:07 PM
So, do you guys have any predictions on the European elections?

Btw, is UKIP really that bad? I thought they cleaned out the racists, etc after the last election? Still, let's keep in mind that we're talking European parliament here...let 'em have it... ;)

We're stable, mature democracies, and we don't need an excessive, bureacratic, African farmer-starving organization to prevent us from engaging in silly wars...I mean, come on...

UKIP support full withdrawal from Europe and an isolationist foreign policy I believe.

And anti-immigrants. And homophobic. Oh... there ads contained racial slurs against other E.U countries.

THey don't seem to be isolationist, actually. But I can well imagine that they're homophobes... ;)


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: afleitch on June 12, 2004, 06:11:59 PM
If the UKIP does well, it is possible its most well known candidate, Richard Kilroy Silk, will replace its current unknown leader. A Kilroy led UKIP would be extremely populist, but I doubt it would be 'phobic' as Kilroy himself is liberal minded socially. If Kilroy did lead, commentors who have seen him in action say he is a fantastic campaigner. If it can outflank the Conservatives and Labour, There could be a 1981 'seismic' shift in voting intentions, aka SDP, though whether that would translate into a good election performance we would have to wait and see. This is, of course, only if Kilroy- a man who speaks his mind- becomes the leader of the party. Don't count them out....just yet

Bearing that in mind- I still wouldn't vote for them :)


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: struct310 on June 12, 2004, 06:35:56 PM
Just to clarify, the UKIP, is it close to the Republican party in its views?


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Gustaf on June 13, 2004, 03:40:27 AM
Just to clarify, the UKIP, is it close to the Republican party in its views?

It's not translatable. Since their major issue is oppositoin to the EU... ;)

But yes, they're conservative, that's for sure.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 13, 2004, 04:29:22 AM
If the UKIP does well, it is possible its most well known candidate, Richard Kilroy Silk, will replace its current unknown leader. A Kilroy led UKIP would be extremely populist, but I doubt it would be 'phobic' as Kilroy himself is liberal minded socially. If Kilroy did lead, commentors who have seen him in action say he is a fantastic campaigner. If it can outflank the Conservatives and Labour, There could be a 1981 'seismic' shift in voting intentions, aka SDP, though whether that would translate into a good election performance we would have to wait and see. This is, of course, only if Kilroy- a man who speaks his mind- becomes the leader of the party. Don't count them out....just yet

Bearing that in mind- I still wouldn't vote for them :)

You doubt it would be "phobic"?

Robert Kilroy Silk is the man who said that all Arabs are terrorists.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Ben. on June 13, 2004, 10:04:33 AM
I have a number of friends who live in the East Midlands and they mostly voted for Kilroy and a number of them are Labour Party members. From what I can tell a strong performance by UKIP and the Greens in the Euro Elections will be a good thing as it will “rattle a few cages” and force the main parties to take notice of the vast majority of people’s unease about the EU, it is not that they want to withdraw it is that they what a final settlement as opposed to the continuing pressure from France and Germany for “ever closer union” which always struck me as faintly sinister. Kilroy is vain but he isn’t hateful, I think that he does care and is a fairly Republican esqu figure for the UK, he very much a “personal candidate” as opposed to a “party candidate” he runs on his ability and his achievements rather than the party tag next to his name (unlike many very dull politicians in the UK), he is good on TV usually and seems earnest and intelligent, he taps wonderfully into a deep seated resentment within the UK  towards both the EU and the “metropolitan elite” it proper nationalism, not thuggish fascism (al-la the BNP) but a spirited nationalism and in Kilory’s case linked with a social liberalism that could really turn the UKIP into something more than a “doss house for the disaffected right of the Conservative Party” he as leader would be able to build on any success in the euro elections and possible stage some powerful campaigns in a number of selected constituencies at the time of the next election… On Europe I think UKIP are a bit far the right but most of the other party’s are way way to the left imho, with Kilroy-Silk as their leader UKIP would have the very real potential to become a populist-rightwing party that could do well.  

   Another point, a UKIP party as a respectable nationalist party, like the SNP or Pliad Cymre could do well… populist polices that would play well with middle and lower  income groups and could allow for inroads amongst both poorer Labour voters and middle class Labour and Tory voters... my final word, they could do well…    


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 13, 2004, 12:49:47 PM
UKIP have severe problems in my eyes, they say that the nation is "full up" and that we should stop immigration because if our people can't do the jobs they aren't necessary effectively. They say there isn't enough space for letting anyone else in and that no asylum seekers should be allowed in.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 13, 2004, 04:03:59 PM
Kilroy-Silk is this country's Jorg Haider.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: bullmoose88 on June 13, 2004, 05:16:32 PM
Any news on EU elections in the UK?


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 13, 2004, 05:31:44 PM
First Region to Declare - London;
Turnout 36.7%

PartyVotes% VoteMEPs Elected
Conservative504,94126.8%3
Labour466,58424.7%3
Liberal Democrats288,79015.3%1
United Kingdom Indepence Party232,63312.3%1
Greens158,9868.4%1
Respect91,1754.8%0
British National Party76,1524.0%0
English Democrats Party15,9450.8%0
Others50,2432.7%0

Second Region - North East
Turnout - 40.6%

PartyVotes% VoteMEPs Elected
Conservative144,96918.6%1
Labour266,05734.1%1
Liberal Democrats138,97117.8%1
United Kingdom Indepence Party94,88712.2%0
Greens37,2474.8%0
Respect8,6331.1%0
British National Party50,2496.4%0
Others39,6585.1%0

3rd Region - Yorkshire & The Humber
Turnout 42.2%

PartyVotes% VoteMEPs Elected
Conservative387,36924.6%2
Labour413,21326.3%2
Liberal Democrats244,60715.5%1
United Kingdom Indepence Party228,66614.5%1
Greens90,3375.7%0
Respect29,8651.9%0
British National Party126,5388.0%0
English Democrats Party24,0681.5%0
Others28,5381.8%0


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: bullmoose88 on June 13, 2004, 06:40:38 PM
What do these numbers mean for the major parties?

conservatives in trouble?


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 13, 2004, 06:58:34 PM
Later results indicate trouble for the govt - only about 23% share of vote. Massive gains for UKIP, polling 18% and about 11 seats in the Parlt. Lib Dems seeing gain in vote but might lose a seat. Tories arent doing well, about 28% of vote, but could expect to gain the majority of the UKIP support in a general election.

I will publish results on my website as soon as I can.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Peter on June 13, 2004, 07:15:52 PM
I have six of the results up on my website:

UK results for EU 2004 (http://ukconstitution.net/politics/elections/Europe_04.html)

And for comparison:
1999 results (http://ukconstitution.net/politics/elections/Europe_99.html)

Note that UK number of seats has gone from 87 to 78 in total.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 14, 2004, 03:00:52 AM
The results are bad for all three parties... probably worse for the Tories because Labour can say that all Euro elections result in large anti-govt swings and that the Tories have failed to take advantage of that (they also did better than most other european governments), despite falling into 4th the LibDems can be pleased there vote went up...
Both UKIP and the BNP did disturbingly well...


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 14, 2004, 06:59:22 AM
()

He *does* look like Haider...
---
Re: UKIP voters... my guess is that the disaffected Tories will head back in a Toryward direction... and that the "Reagan Democrat" ones will head back in a Labourwards direction... (and anyways more Labour voters will turnout at the General)
Which leaves a hard core of support. Question is: how big is it?
My guess (or is it a hope) would be about 5% of the electorate.

Oh yeah... heard a rumour that Chris Gill might be standing as UKIP's candidate in Ludlow next General election.
You have been warned.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Michael Z on June 14, 2004, 07:25:39 AM
()

He *does* look like Haider...

Their views are roughly the same too. In fact, see little difference between UKIP and Austria's Freedom Party. Or, for that matter, Front Nationale, Vlaams Blok... they're all symptoms of the same disease. Petty nationalists who want to drag us back into the dark days.

You can't imagine how angry I am with the British electorate right now.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 14, 2004, 09:16:02 AM
()

He *does* look like Haider...

Their views are roughly the same too. In fact, see little difference between UKIP and Austria's Freedom Party. Or, for that matter, Front Nationale, Vlaams Blok... they're all symptoms of the same disease. Petty nationalists who want to drag us back into the dark days.

You can't imagine how angry I am with the British electorate right now.

They are very like the "Freedom" Party...


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Ben. on June 15, 2004, 04:49:54 AM
()

He *does* look like Haider...

Their views are roughly the same too. In fact, see little difference between UKIP and Austria's Freedom Party. Or, for that matter, Front Nationale, Vlaams Blok... they're all symptoms of the same disease. Petty nationalists who want to drag us back into the dark days.

You can't imagine how angry I am with the British electorate right now.

They are very like the "Freedom" Party...

They seem like a rightwing populist party with a heavy does of non-racist nationalism... While i disagree, I can understand why they are apealing and if properly lead and managed could do well.  


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Gustaf on June 16, 2004, 05:51:24 AM
Now, now...I don't think UKIP should be compared to Le Pen or Vlams Blok...there's a marked difference between xenophobic nationalists and racist idiots, IMHO. Vlams Blok vice chairman had to resign after claiming that the Holocaust was very exaggerated. I don't think a lot of people in the UKIP would do that.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 16, 2004, 05:55:07 AM
Now, now...I don't think UKIP should be compared to Le Pen or Vlams Blok...there's a marked difference between xenophobic nationalists and racist idiots, IMHO. Vlams Blok vice chairman had to resign after claiming that the Holocaust was very exaggerated. I don't think a lot of people in the UKIP would do that.

One of their new MEP's was a member (and a candidate!) for a white supremicist party.
Kilroy-Silk has made racist remarks about Arabs and Spanish people (he actually lives in a villa in Spain. Hypocrite).


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Gustaf on June 16, 2004, 06:03:42 AM
Now, now...I don't think UKIP should be compared to Le Pen or Vlams Blok...there's a marked difference between xenophobic nationalists and racist idiots, IMHO. Vlams Blok vice chairman had to resign after claiming that the Holocaust was very exaggerated. I don't think a lot of people in the UKIP would do that.

One of their new MEP's was a member (and a candidate!) for a white supremicist party.
Kilroy-Silk has made racist remarks about Arabs and Spanish people (he actually lives in a villa in Spain. Hypocrite).

OK...I'll admit to not being an expert but the impression I got is taht there is a difference between Vlams Blok, Le Pen and such parties and more moderate nationalist parties like UKIP...but I could be wrong.


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 16, 2004, 06:12:31 AM
Now, now...I don't think UKIP should be compared to Le Pen or Vlams Blok...there's a marked difference between xenophobic nationalists and racist idiots, IMHO. Vlams Blok vice chairman had to resign after claiming that the Holocaust was very exaggerated. I don't think a lot of people in the UKIP would do that.

One of their new MEP's was a member (and a candidate!) for a white supremicist party.
Kilroy-Silk has made racist remarks about Arabs and Spanish people (he actually lives in a villa in Spain. Hypocrite).

OK...I'll admit to not being an expert but the impression I got is taht there is a difference between Vlams Blok, Le Pen and such parties and more moderate nationalist parties like UKIP...but I could be wrong.

It's not as bad as LePen (and out-and-out fascist) but it's rather "Powellite"...


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: JohnFKennedy on June 16, 2004, 10:29:05 AM
Now, now...I don't think UKIP should be compared to Le Pen or Vlams Blok...there's a marked difference between xenophobic nationalists and racist idiots, IMHO. Vlams Blok vice chairman had to resign after claiming that the Holocaust was very exaggerated. I don't think a lot of people in the UKIP would do that.

One of their new MEP's was a member (and a candidate!) for a white supremicist party.
Kilroy-Silk has made racist remarks about Arabs and Spanish people (he actually lives in a villa in Spain. Hypocrite).

I believe the Arab comment he made was not so much a comment as a long article which can be summed up by his own phrase which he used that "All Arabs are terrorists".


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Ben. on June 16, 2004, 11:08:46 AM
Now, now...I don't think UKIP should be compared to Le Pen or Vlams Blok...there's a marked difference between xenophobic nationalists and racist idiots, IMHO. Vlams Blok vice chairman had to resign after claiming that the Holocaust was very exaggerated. I don't think a lot of people in the UKIP would do that.

One of their new MEP's was a member (and a candidate!) for a white supremacist party.
Kilroy-Silk has made racist remarks about Arabs and Spanish people (he actually lives in a villa in Spain. Hypocrite).


Not about the Spanish, it was a "joke" at the time that he made in the "stump speech" he made across the east midlands.

Yeah there is defiantly some prejudice in that party but not blatant racism, Kilroy is simply an islamiphobe, its as i said a small populist rightwing party that could do a lot of damage to the Tory party as a Kilroy lead,  assertive, UKIP could split the Conservative vote and make big inroads into the lower and middle income groups who could support the conservatives and even Labour and the LibDems it would be interesting if you ended up with LibDems (Radical Left) Labour (Moderate Left) Conservative (Moderate Right) and UKIP (Radical Right), its unlikely but not totally impossible...


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 16, 2004, 12:41:57 PM
Well the LibDems are unlikely ever to develop into a radical leftist party... unless you mean social issues...


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Ben. on June 16, 2004, 01:33:46 PM
Well the LibDems are unlikely ever to develop into a radical leftist party... unless you mean social issues...


I say radical... I really mean the "Guardian Party"... "Big State, Social Liberals" (pretty similar to what Kennedy thinks is about right now)... basically a leftwing party positioned as the "real Social Democratic” party, quite a turnaround but not impossible with their constant chasing of the leftwing and leftwing middle class vote.  


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 16, 2004, 01:39:09 PM
Well the LibDems are unlikely ever to develop into a radical leftist party... unless you mean social issues...


I say radical... I really mean the "Guardian Party"... "Big State, Social Liberals" (pretty similar to what Kennedy thinks is about right now)... basically a leftwing party positioned as the "real Social Democratic” party, quite a turnaround but not impossible with their constant chasing of the leftwing and leftwing middle class vote.  


Most of them aren't too keen on "Big State" from what I've seen... hell they want to abolish the DTI... but social liberalism is about right...
Kennedy is waaaaaay to the left of most of his party mind.
---
As far as the progressive yuppy vote goes, that's a local thing I think... almost a hangover from the old SDP really...


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Ben. on June 17, 2004, 01:14:38 AM
Well the LibDems are unlikely ever to develop into a radical leftist party... unless you mean social issues...


I say radical... I really mean the "Guardian Party"... "Big State, Social Liberals" (pretty similar to what Kennedy thinks is about right now)... basically a leftwing party positioned as the "real Social Democratic” party, quite a turnaround but not impossible with their constant chasing of the leftwing and leftwing middle class vote.  


Most of them aren't too keen on "Big State" from what I've seen... hell they want to abolish the DTI... but social liberalism is about right...
Kennedy is waaaaaay to the left of most of his party mind.
---
As far as the progressive yuppy vote goes, that's a local thing I think... almost a hangover from the old SDP really...

Yeah, with Kennedy there is a definite sense that his politics are shaped by the facts that he’s a former Labour Party Member and an SDP MP.

But I just don’t understand how the Liberals suffer no hit to their credibility as they turn around and take stands to the left of all of Labour’s Domestic agenda. As I say though after the next election (by which time it is likely that Iraq will be subsiding as an issue) and shortly after that (probably) Blair will be gone and Borwn will probably be leader and while polices will not change much, the style of leadership and that leaderships concern for cementing its grassroots  support will be very different.

This will all leave Kennedy will loses on the right where traditional LibDem supporters could gravitate to the Conservatives and at the same time he will probably witness much of the Leftwing Middle Class and Antiwar vote behind a Brown lead “LABOUR” Party.    


Title: Re:UK Local Elections / European Parliamentary Elections
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on June 17, 2004, 11:07:55 AM
What ever happened to Michael Meadowcroft and the remnants of the Liberal Party? You know, the Liberals who refused to see how a merger with the Social Democrats would benefit true liberalism.

They've got the odd counciller here and there, and come second in Liverpool-West Derby every General Election.