Talk Elections

Nanny Statist.

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/07/romneys_new_ad_smart_move.html?xid=rss-rcp

Hi my name is Mitt Romney.

I think that only material the church of latter days saints approve of should be seen on tv.

I will be sure to legislate my religion on the people of the United Church oh I mean States of America.

I really am conservative..... what I really am! Would a fake conservative has as nice hair as I do?

I'm Mitt Romney and the church approves this message.

Yes the reason kids go bad is because of TV and not bad parenting. What exactly can a president actually do to achieve anything he said in his commercial? Is he planning on repealing the 1st amendment? If parents want to keep stuff from their kids they should do it themselves....not expect the federal government to do it for them.

but for the GOP primary it is a good ad and I am sure will help him with the conservative base

That's really low attacking the man because of his religon.

We all know how Romney pushed his religion on the people of Massachusetts, right? I'm never amazed at how dumb people are.

BTW, you got the name of the church wrong, bigot.

I see ignorance, intolerance, bigotry, and stupidity still runs rampant on this forum against the faith of a major Presidential candidate.

Grow up!   

I count one (1) person in this thread who showed any kind of deliberate intolerance towards Romney's faith.

I never knew that a single person was capable of "running rampant" to such a degree.

Romney's very dangerous because he's a massively compelling and attractive personality.

It's funny to see you calling someone a bigot.

well said

Why is that?

Read my post.  I said forum, not thread.  

There are many derogatory and bigoted remarks on this forum aimed squarely at Romney's faith.

Aside from this, why do you support a candidate who's in such favor of the state inteveneing in your personal life.

Better yet, would you or ANY conservative like to give me a reasonable explanation as to how pornography actually damages kids?

My chance of supporting Romney in any sort has now gone from about 1.3% to absolutely none at all.

Hi, my name is poughies.

I'm a bigot.

I'm poughies and The Bigots Society Of America approves this message.

Pornography?  What exactly is he going to do to stop that as a president?  Besides, parents get internet filters.  Even if it gets through once, maybe twice, seeing porn is not going to destroy a ten-year-old's life forever.

But this ad's going to appeal to who he wants it to appeal to:  the conservative Christian family who doesn't really bother to understand these issues, but is frightened of them anyway.

Meaningless and substanceless ad, designed to appeal to, well, idiots. I have 100% confidence that I'll still have the ability to go on the internets and download more porn than I could possibly ever watch during my lifetime if Mitt Romney is elected President.

CUZ THOSE RELIGIOUS R BIG DUMMIES!

Also didn't Obama give some hints of being "nanny statist".  

Hmm, so I guess we know how you operate Eraserhead: make nasty insinuations with no evidence, and then run away....thats nice.

Uh no actually I had stuff to do in real life before going back on the computer. I seem to recall you making some anti-black and anti-Brazilian statements on here in the past.

...like what?

You have no reason to say that. To make such a dirty allegation over unspecific comments you "seem to recall" me making(that never happened) is beyond the pale. You had to go back in my posts to get the Brazilian thing from like a year ago I assume, and the post youre refering to is one where I said that Brazilian girls were easy. At the time I lived in Brazil and my girlfriend was Brazilian, as are a part of my family(through marriage), so don't try to backtrack and find justifications for your ridiculousness. There was nothing bigoted about it.

I would say that is pretty bigoted...much more than Poughies post. You said Brazilians (in general) were dumb as well.

Not what I meant.  Pretty much every voting bloc has some issues where most voters feel strongly and vaguely.  Conservative Christian voters probably mostly support limitations on pornography to some extent.  I'm sure it tested well among Romney's focus group members.  But few bother to understand the mechanics behind any such governmentally-enforced prevention.  If they did, they'd probably realize that this is a pretty empty promise on Romney's part.

I'm not blaming the voters for being undereducated (it's a complex, technical issue) or falling for pandering.  I'm not even blaming Romney for using a pipe dream issue.  It's just the nature of politics.

There's no voting bloc that is especially educated on this issue (maybe Ron Paul supporters)...it just happens to be that this voting bloc is the one that's most interested anyway.

First of all, saying the girls in a certain place are easy is a) not bigoted and b) nowhere near poughies' statements.

EDIT: after further review of the post in question it does seem like I said brazilians were dumb, but i wasnt referring to the people of brazil, i was talking about the people I worked with, so I'll give you that one. If you look further down in that post I said "the people I come into contact with", being directed at the vapid, airheaded, materialistic rich people I was teaching English to.

Why the hell would he quote Peggy Noonan of all people? Why not someone who matters and isnt all political?

Why, they cause them to take up arms and shoot people at their high schools in a dramatic manner guaranteed to make the news, you dummy.

"No, I'm not Brazilian, I'm from the USA. I hate it here because the people are soooo dumb and thier accents just make you want to scream sometimes. People are pre-occupied with really stupid things, especially the bourgeoisie upper-middle-class types I come into contact with."

As for the level of their promiscuity, I stick by that wholeheartedly. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's definitely a part of their culture, and it's not my cup of tea

BTW, I still havent gotten an answer on my comments about Blacks, which was the original reason Eraserhead made the statement. He didnt find the Brazilian thing until later

Do you think his first act as president would be to sign an executive order renaming the United States the Republic of Gilead?

The ironic thing is that you and poughies' statements aren't even comparable because poughies did not actually say anything bad about the 'church of latter days saints'.

I admit the things I said were written in a harsh way, but come on, IT WAS TWO YEARS AGO. My critique was of a culture I found devoid of compassion, values, and seriousness(something shocking to me because of my good experiences with Brazilian family and my girlfriend.) If you want me to apologise for it, sure whatever, but I wasn't mocking any of the races of Brazil or their devotion to Catholicism. If anything I was citicizing their(certain segments of the population, specifically the kids of executives that I met and those that moved in their circles) extreme embrace of American capitalist values, and therefore criticizing American style hedonism. I had moved to a place full of millions of Paris Hiltons

I've said all I'm going to say about that post from October of 2005. If any of you can find a hint of prejudice towards blacks in any of my posts I will adress that, as that was the original claim of Eraserhead, that I had made anti-black statements.

Did Romney have his $300 makeup on in this new ad? :D

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0707/4982.html

Oh sorry! My mistake, I thought being a bigot actually required someone to be a bigot. WOuld u prefer for me to be to say generic church. The point was that Romney is clearly trying to appeal to religious conservatives by appealing to the church. The same way Pat Robertson tries to force his views from the evangelical church. I would make the same joke when Lieberman appeared in those stupid Jerry Falwell ads. I would say he was trying to force his religious views on everyone (I'm jewish). I support Harry Reid. I love the fact that if u dare mention the fact that Romney has tried to make religion apart of this campaign then somehow you are a bigot by trying to say that he is clearly saying that he will listen to his religious views when leading. And these were not the arguments that Romney tried to make when running for the governorship. He has decided to run on as a religious conservative. As such, any person who runs saying that their faith in religion will lead them is open to the attack that the church or temple or mosque (or one of the eastern religions) they belong to will lead them.

Let me ad the post itself was not to be offensive in anyway. If that wasn't clear from above the original post was merely saying that he is clearly trying to inflict his religious beliefs upon the nation. Now that doesn't mean that he is trying to make everyone a Mormon. It merely means that the views held by him are the views he is trying to legislate. The same way George Bush tried to legislate his evangelical views upon the nation. The same way many in the middle east try to inflict their islamic views upon the nation.

I find it so funny that those who call islam a religion of hate try to say that anyone who critiques Romney as a bigot (if they bring up he is the Christian conservative).

I edited the post to make it more clear what i was saying.

In a personal message someone brought up a good point about faith and candidates and Obama. First let me say I don't like Obama. But as to the overall tones of religion. I will almost always vote for the candidate who tries to inflict his religious views least. Sure there are certain races (Harold Ford for example) where both candidates are religious, and I vote for the one I most agree with. I should also there is a big difference about how a candidate inflicts his religious views. To curtail poverty is one thing, while curtailing pornography with a religious overtone are two different things.

That said, I don't like the going into churches.... any candidate (and that includes a lot of Democrats of past).

Well, I think that the people have right to attack Romney because of his religion. If you're crazy enough to believe something that has been proven to be a charade, what makes you think your political beliefs aren't also whacky?

Then again, I am an atheist.

I truly don't know a lot about Mormonism except for what South Park (no pun intended) said. So I cannot comment on whether its a "charade" or not. Personally, I don't care as it should have no part of the debate. If it is brought in by the candidate (religious conservative), then I believe it can be commented on. His faith, no the religion itself.

Brazil sounds like my type of place!


I'd say his tendency for massive gaffes and extreme lack of political savvy far outweighs any of that. If he gets nominated a Democratic victory is basically all but assured.

BTW, that ad could've easily been for Ralph Nader.

does anyone here want to live in a wold that is entirely child safe? I am an adult and I enjoy adult things. I do not wanted a rated G world.

Especially since the last serious attempt to regulate porn on the internet was overturned UNANIMOUSLY by the Supreme Court.

I don't... I like my Rescue Me. At the same time, I want my kids (when I have them) to live in a friendly environment. Its called buying a fricken box that blocks out the bad stuff (whats it called again). Its called being involved in your kids lives. Its called making sure they know the difference between fake and real violence. The consequences of unprotected sex (the consequences of protected sex). Getting south park off the air won't do anything.

I find it ironic that conservatives say that they want to preserve american culture and yet what they really want to do is change it. I also find it hypocritical, when obviously, porn and all of these other horrible things will be wiped out by the free market. Duh.

I will not allow Romney to take South Park off the air.

XSouth Park Conservative

Of course they do.

I've said it a hundred times, the Republicans are becoming fascist and the Democrats are becoming socialist. Regardless of who between them wins, at the end of the day the people are f***ed.

This is about the mentality of what I would expect from someone who calls himself "South Park Conservative," who approves of "attack Romney because of his religion."

This is low, this is disgusting, this is bigoted, to attack anyone because of their religion.

I find it incredible that such narrow minded attitudes still cast their dark and decaying shadow over 21st century society.   

Don't get me wrong. I would vote for Romney in a hearbeat if he agreed with me on the issues. I'm just thinking the way the average american would. I, too, would rather see ROmney lose because he is a Christian Right flip-flopper than because of the crazy stuff he believes in. In other words, to a lot of Americans, it would be like electing a Scientologist to the White House.

I know I said I wasn't going to say anything else about it, but I can't let that go. That comment was regarding a small subsect of Brazilian society, which I made abundantly clear later in the paragraph.

BTW, I talked with Poughies privately and I think we were harsh with him, and he really didn't mean to offend.

I should say I private messaged all that I thought were offended and conveyed in a personal matter what the intent of my original post was.

Many of those sentiments by me have been echoed in this thread.

I should also say that all those who have responded to my messages were kind and forgiving. So I thank them for that and hope we can all just get back to the state (pun intended on religion and state).

I am getting so sick of the rabidly pro-Romney assholes on here who call anyone who attacks Romney a bigot.

Romney himself was attacked for being a Mormon by a Christian evangelical at a campaign speech, and responded by saying that while America was a nation of different faiths, it was important to have someone of faith be President-- which drew cheers and applause from his audience.

Romney himself is a bigot and is exploiting religious intolerance to shift away anti-Mormon sentiment to an even more disliked portion of society.  Anyone who has the audacity to call someone bigoted for opposing Romney's clear support of theocracy but won't acknowledge that Romney himself is a bigot is a complete joke.

It's not attacking Romney that is bigoted, it is attacking his faith that is bigoted.

There is a BIG difference.

Attack Romney all you want, I don't care. 

Leave his religion out of it.

While I agree with this 100%, you can attack the man while mentioning his religion if u feel that he will let his religious beliefs guide the nation. Its not the religion that should be attacked, its the fact that the man is going to allow the nation to be ruled by the religion. Its the same thing that George W. Bush has done with his form of evangelical christianity. If Romney does that with his mormon faith then he should be called out. If he won't, then I don't care what religion the man is. Either way, the church shouldn't be attacked. I don't care if he is jewish, mormon, or sikh.

I wasnt offended by what Poughies said. But the generalizations you made were pretty harsh on the brazilians.

this of course is the fundamental paradox of the GOP coalition

you have your small government, low regulation, free market Libertarian types mixed in with your 'government should be involved in your bedrooms and censoring what you see' religious types.

it is just a strange byproduct of our elctoral system that they ended up in the same party when they really have little in common

If he wants to suppress free speech based on what his religious says is objectionable, then it's completely fair game.

I don't care if, say, Harry Reid is a Mormon.  Great for him.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. 

Romney speaks for what he believes.  He does not speak for his church, his church does not speak for him.

It is never "fair game" to attack anyone's church.  Rather, it is repugnant, no matter how you try to disguise it.

As President, Romney will have no control over his church, and his church will have no control over him.

Romney is a firm believer in the separation of church and state.   

Wants to supress free speech?  Nonsense.

It's amazing how I tend to agree with you on almost all matters of religion.

So why are churches above criticism?

They're above criticism because of the First Amendment. Because the First Amendment gives the right to freedom of religion, that means that it is illegal to criticize one's religion. [/sarcasm]

We have political positions because we have faith in them.

People may invest more importance in their religion, but it is no more a form of faith than many political positions.  I don't see why it is beyond reproach.

Personally I hate all religions equally.

As much as I'd like to think that my vote wouldn't be affected by a candidate's religion, there's no chance in hell I'd vote for someone whose religious beliefs included a vehement denial of evolution, an unflinching opposition to the use of stem cells in any capacity, and the desire to use tax dollars for the construction of a really, really tall ladder to reach heaven.

I have no problems with the ad nor the message, except for when he starts talking about movies and video games.  Those are items within the family's control, and the responsibility for that access belongs on the parents.  Drugs on the streets and so on cannot be controlled by the individual family unless the plan to keep their kids locked up indoors all day, which in my opinion, does more harm than good.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

From what objective and secular logic does he determine that pornography and allegedly violent or offensive TV shows should be censored?

That's right... he's proposing that we legislate his religious beliefs into government policy which affects everyone.  The ad clearly states that he wants to improve the culture of America based on his religious views.

If you want to see real attacks on his religion though, how about the fact that Mormonism is a cult that was started by a drunken adulterer and lunatic who tricked people into thinking he could read Egyptian heiroglyphics from a bunch of tablets with special glasses that only he had access to?  Or the fact that the church he started makes decisions overturning their past polygamy, racism, and sexism only when suddenly politically expedient?

You see, his church is a complete fraud and sham, but again, what matters here is that he wants to legislate religious beliefs into public policy.

Anybody else get the impression that Romney just took the demo video from some random home movie software and started talking over it?

Again no one at all should be attacking Romney for his religion,If Romney was Catholic, Jewish,or Protestant no one would be attacking him. This is just as bigoted you should not be attacking Romney for his religion,It would be like me going around calling Barack Obama a c**n Senator or something.    

No but that doesn't mean he is immune from the same attacks of attempting in this ad to suggest in my opinion to threaten as Bush the separation between church and state....

Now, don't tell me any things from Massachusetts governor... he's a different politician.....

However like I said both Republicans and Democrats seem to be gunning for the value vote this time around although this as everyone knows totally overshadowed by the war in Iraq.

Uh not really. Religion is a choice, race isn't...not that I really care if you call Obama or anyone else names because of their race. It would only serve to make you look foolish but that's your choice. I support the first amendment.

The same for religion.   

You have truly demonstrated your complete ignorance of and your unbridled prejudice toward The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a church you so obviously know nothing about.

It is ignorance and attitudes like yours that perpetuate narrow minded bigotry in the 21st century.

You must be a direct descendant of some of the fanatics who presided at the Salem witch trials. 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a heretical church based on lies and the false prophet Joseph Smith, and a complete perversion of the truth of Jesus Christ.

True though this a difference between speaking of value as poverty and equality... vs value of God this and God that... Look I god bless america, but jeez this stuff is getting insane.

But u are right on some level.

Actually, as I said, I don't care that he's a Mormon.  You keep saying that Romney is the subject of prejudicial attacks and I provided you an example of a real attack.  But hey, why not.  You seem to think that religious institutions should be immune from criticism, so let's talk this out.  What did I say that was incorrect?  Prove me wrong.

I know nothing about the LDS?  Criticising a church's origins is tantamount to presiding over the Salem witch trials?  Those are some tall claims.  You ought to back them up.

By the way, it's interesting that you are not disputing that Romney himself is a bigot.  Presumably you agree with him that we need someone of faith to be the nation's commaner-in-chief... because an atheist or agnostic is incapable of doing the job.

I suppose you whole heartedly support The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints then?

He thinks that anyone who opposes Romney because he's a Mormon is a bigot.

But, strangely, Mormons who support Romney solely because of his religion seem to be doing nothing wrong.

Yes, but I am speaking of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Yeah, I got that.

Mainstream Mormons hate the FLDS because they're an annoying reminder of some of their past practices.

I will not be drawn into this type of an internet dialogue with individuals who are obviously predisposed to an already unenlightened stance and prejudicial attitude.

That's what we like to call dodging the bullet.

Tell me, though.  Are you willing to admit that Mitt Romney is a bigot against the non-religious?

You don't know what you are even talking about. And you dodged my question? Do you support the FLDS?

The secular argument is that violence and sex in the media leads to kids becoming more violent and having more sex, and therefore we have a responsibility to regulate the amount of indecency in the culture.  This is a secular argument Romney is making.  His premise, that violence and sex on TV leads to kids having more sex and being more violent, is almost universally endorsed by experts in the field.  The American Psychiatric Association tells us that violent video games, TV shows, and movies lead to kids behaving violently.  Are the members of the American Psychiatric Association religious zealots also?  To say that the only argument in favor of regulating indecency is religious when the nation's premier mental health organization says there is perfectly secular reason for concern shows that you have no interest in engaging with the facts.

Not only is there a secular argument to be made here, the argument is hardly novel.  Ever hear of the Federal Communications Commission?

As for the rest of your post, it is plainly objectionable that you would attack Mitt Romney's faith by launching a proxy attack on the founders of his religion.  You know that you can't make a credible attack on Romney's own religious views, which are well inside the American mainstream, so you launch a broadside against Brigham Young and Joseph Smith hoping to succeed in playing a guilt by association game.  Its disgusting, frankly.

Go spew your lies, bigotry, ignorance, and your venomous hatred on some hate site  where bigots like you have a good time getting together to perpetuate your sheer stupidity. 

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/07/in_a_nutshell.html

There's the point i was trying to make..... of course, it could be secular but it rarely if ever is the argument made in the way. And no u don't have to mention God in order to get the point across.....

i do not believe that anyone who has issues with mormons is automatically a bigot. (some have issues with muslims others with catholics, etc) I believe that many voters will not be able to see past Romney's Mormonism, but does that mean that here on this forum we have to debate it for every Romney topic.

America is a changing nation,People saw past Kennedy's Catholic faith and I think people will do the same with Romney.

Actually, it is called not wasting my time with an exercise in futility.

I do not wish to expend the effort of launching a cruise missile to flatten an ant hill.

Mitt Romney is not a bigot against the non-religious.  He simply has a firm conviction that strong moral values make for a strong nation.  Strong moral values will prevent the nation from decaying from within.

Just because you say it in a grandiloquent way doesn't really make it true...

So basically he doesn't like non-religious people but that doesn't make him a bigot towards them?

He said that an atheist or agnostic should not be elected as President.  Are you saying that someone without the Christian faith does not have strong moral values?


Mitt Romney is closer to Al Smith than John Kennedy, in terms of this analogy you're trying to make.

My belief is that anyone, regardless of race, color, or creed, can have strong moral values, be they Christian or non Christian.

By the same token, anyone, be they Christian or non Christian, can have few if any moral values.

I know many non Christians, and I am proud to call them my friends.

It is entirely untrue to state that Mitt Romney does not like non religious people.  As a good Christian, Romney has love for all mankind. 

I am aware that Romney has stated that a person of faith should be President.  This by no means should be construed to indicate that Romney believes that only a Christian should be President.  A  person of faith is one who has values and principles that are for the betterment of society, and a person of faith is one who believes in a Supreme Being.  Clearly, a person of faith can be Christian, non Christian, Jewish, Muslim, what have you.

I have made it a policy of mine not to discuss my personal life on this forum.  However, let me make it perfectly clear, like Mitt Romney, for example, like John Edwards, for example, like most of the Presidential candidates, for example, I am a devout Christian, and my Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ.

Never at any time, not in the past, not now, and at no time in the future, have I, or am I, or will I ever be, a member, or supporter, or have any association with, in any way, shape, or form, with the FLDS.

I am proud to number among my friends Christians and non Christians alike, and I am as well proud to number among my friends people of many different races, nationalities, and creeds.

I seem to remember a certain Jr. senator from New York who as far as I can recall has similar positions on various popular media.  Heck, I'm old enough to remember Tipper Gore's crusade against dirty words in songs and all that other 'wicked' stuff.

Do I care that these two ladies are Southern Baptists?  Not really.   Does the fact that Bush associates with the generally moderate Methodists make his religious pronouncements less over the top. uh-uh. 

For the most part Religion only matters in how much they wear it on their sleeve and try to  incorporate it into policy.   (exceptions exist for actual dangerous cults like $cientology, branch davidians, Heavens gate, and amway distributors).

His positions, OTOH, I disagree with and make me less likely to consider voting for him should he end up running against the aforementioned senator from New York.

If you ask me, you sound like a hypocrite. And my comments on this thread had nothing to do with Romney's religion. In fact, when I see Romney speak on CNN or wherever, he has always seemed like a great person. I still believe that he truly believes in everything he did in 1994, too. Also, I'd proudly vote for Harry Reid or any other Mormon like him. Anyway, your comments just aren't consistent.

How the f**k is this lies, bigotry and hatred?

I'm not a Mormon. Because of this, I believe Joseph Smith as a false prophet who preached lies. If I didn't, and thus believed he told the truth, I would convert to Mormonism, but I haven't. Therefore, I see Mormonism as a false religion, which all non-Mormons obviously do, and as a perversion of the faith of Jesus Christ, as all Christians obviously do. If someone didn't, they'd convert to Mormonism.

So essentially, you are saying all Mormons are bigoted.

Well me and most of the people I know don't believe in a "Supreme Being". I guess we can't run for President according to Romney.

Unless you're opponent is gay, and even then, you would be a longshot.

Unless the gay was non believer too...then I would almost certainly be the favorite.

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If you ask me, you sound like a hypocrite. And my comments on this thread had nothing to do with Romney's religion. In fact, when I see Romney speak on CNN or wherever, he has always seemed like a great person. I still believe that he truly believes in everything he did in 1994, too. Also, I'd proudly vote for Harry Reid or any other Mormon like him. Anyway, your comments just aren't consistent.
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Conan, I have never said at any time in this thread anything about any of your comments, nor have I said that any of your comments had anything to do with Romney's religion.  I agree, none of your comments had anything to do with Romney's religion.   

The only comment I have made to you is in answering a question you posed to me.  That's the extent of any dialogue between yourself and me.

In fact, I appreciate the comments you made above about Romney.  They are most magnanimous. 

On the other hand, as to you referring to me as a hyprocite, and as being inconsistent, I disagree, but, well........ that's another matter altogether.

No, that was me, not Romney, that made reference to a Supreme Being.

So, if you or your friends never run for President, or never become President, blame me. 

I will you bigot!

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Same could be said for you. That's the point. ;)

Mitt Romney evokes the same kinds of passions and emotions that America's great Presidents, Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D Roosevelt, and Ronald Reagan, have awakened in the hearts and minds of the American people.

If that's the case, why do a quarter of GOP voters currently support the 'NOTA' option?  Hardly an inspiring statistic to come from Romney's (and the others') own base, is it?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070717/ap_on_el_pr/presidential_race_ap_poll

Nope

Mitt Romney is the reason why cleaning mops will be sold at high speed to Democratic and Independent housewives next year.

Reason: Mitt Romney is part of The Emetic Gang (what cool words you find in the dictionary ...) :P

Mitt Romney evokes the feelings i get when i go to the waffle house and beach. Flip-Flopping.

Buddhists?

.....???...