Talk Elections

General Discussion => History => Topic started by: Meeker on August 24, 2008, 11:29:02 AM



Title: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Meeker on August 24, 2008, 11:29:02 AM
I was discussing this last night and we couldn't come to a conclusion. Openly gay only, none of this "Oh well they may have been gay according to this book published in 1957 which is based on diary entries published in 1893..." I want hard facts.

And Dumbledore doesn't count.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on August 24, 2008, 11:32:11 AM
Define "gay".


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Torie on August 24, 2008, 11:35:47 AM
Aristotle.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: The Mikado on August 24, 2008, 11:44:17 AM
Alexander.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Meeker on August 24, 2008, 11:45:55 AM

Dominantly sexually attracted to those of their own gender.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Torie on August 24, 2008, 11:47:31 AM

Aristotle's pupil. :P


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: dead0man on August 24, 2008, 02:11:16 PM
Elton John?



edit-oh!  Senator Craig!


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: afleitch on August 24, 2008, 02:32:21 PM
Alexander was bisexual, if he even had any homosexual relations at all.

In his time it would have been seen as strange if he hadn't :)


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on August 24, 2008, 03:09:59 PM
     Is there any requirement for at what point they became openly gay? If not, Freddy Mercury. ;)


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on August 24, 2008, 03:52:05 PM

There's no way of knowing that. Possible to tell (to a limited extent) which gender they fucked the most, but that might not be the same thing (especially as you go further and further back, beyond the systems collapse out of which our own civilisation was, more-or-less, born).


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: afleitch on August 24, 2008, 04:00:10 PM

There's no way of knowing that. Possible to tell (to a limited extent) which gender they fucked the most, but that might not be the same thing (especially as you go further and further back, beyond the systems collapse out of which our own civilisation was, more-or-less, born).

You could 'scale' them. But the idea of having exclusively male/male partnerships is fairly modern. Not to say they did not happen, nor that they were not tolerated at any given time but it was a matter of necessity to have an heir. 500 years ago, I too would probably have married, had a child to secure the future of my estate then went back on discrete 'hunting' trips with the boyfriend.

And 500 years later, detractors would say 'oh no it was just a friendship' 'he had a child and was married blah blah' and others would say 'well if you look closely at his supposed friendship with x...'

Which really makes sexuality the play thing of two sides of the divide and the truth can often be lost.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Person Man on August 24, 2008, 04:21:30 PM
Well, despite what this thread says, the Greek thinkers, executives and war fighters between 900 BC and 150 BC were pretty gay. I mean, the entire idea that western culture evolved from requiring all guys to have homosexual tendancies to a economic polity based on non-assisted reproduction really clouds this idea. Perhaps the least common denominator would be that they admitted to participating in homosexual behavior when they were alive.

Actually, Emperor Hadrian was pretty openly Gay. He lavishly mourned the loss of his boyfriend, Antonius, and married for political convience. In fact, he was called "The Greekling". :P


He was also the world's most powerful Emo...

Animula, vagula, blandula
Hospes comesque corporis
Quae nunc abibis in loca
Pallidula, rigida, nudula,
Nec, ut soles, dabis iocos...
P. Aelius Hadrianus Imp.
Little soul, roamer and charmer
Body's guest and companion
Who soon will depart to places
Darkish, chilly and misty
An end to all your jokes...


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Cubby on August 24, 2008, 04:33:58 PM
Roman Emperor Hadrian

In the United States, President James Buchanan



Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Verily on August 24, 2008, 04:45:08 PM

Agreed, probably Hadrian. The Qianlong Emperor of China isn't a bad choice, either, but China was in serious decline relative to the rest of the world by that point (and you have to contend with conflicting stories about his relationship with Heshen as to whether he was actually homosexual).


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Chiahead on August 24, 2008, 08:58:19 PM
Wouldn't it be more PC as "homosexual"?


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Sam Spade on August 24, 2008, 09:36:36 PM
I like the fact that none of the responses in this thread actually answer the question asked.  Amusing.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on August 24, 2008, 09:44:47 PM
John Edwards


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on August 24, 2008, 09:45:37 PM
I like the fact that none of the responses in this thread actually answer the question asked.  Amusing.

     That would be far too simple. ;)


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: YRABNNRM on August 24, 2008, 11:28:01 PM
Lyndon Johnson.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Platypus on September 05, 2008, 02:17:57 AM
Tyson


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: TomC on September 05, 2008, 09:06:47 PM
J Edgar Hoover


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 06, 2008, 06:09:17 PM
Elagabalus

This one is really easy, folks.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Torie on September 06, 2008, 09:04:41 PM

My wiki does not suggest he was gay, per se, just decadent, and if one if equate power with long term influence, he was a nebbish.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Verily on September 06, 2008, 10:37:33 PM

My wiki does not suggest he was gay, per se, just decadent, and if one if equate power with long term influence, he was a nebbish.

Going by historical accounts, he appears to have been transgender, not gay. But there is a wide body of evidence that suggests the period historical accounts were attempts at slander by his successors, not what actually happened. Regardless, it is unlikely that Elagabalus was gay by any modern standard, while Hadrian most certainly was. And the Roman Empire was stronger in Hadrian's day than in Elagabalus's.

I think Hadrian was blatant enough to qualify as openly gay.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 07, 2008, 04:32:23 PM
But if we look at lasting effects, Egalabalus was the founder of Christmas. Hadrian was the founder of a wall in Northern England. ;D


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on September 08, 2008, 05:37:08 AM
It's been a very useful wall, you know. Great for building material.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 09, 2008, 04:43:45 PM
It's been a very useful wall, you know. Great for building material.

But Christmas is great for selling stuff. Which thus makes it the most useful thing America has.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: King on September 13, 2008, 10:11:47 PM
God (he did make the penis first).


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: J. J. on September 13, 2008, 10:53:58 PM
Patrick J. Buchanan


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Sensei on September 13, 2008, 10:55:57 PM
If the rumors are right, Hitler


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 14, 2008, 01:00:58 PM

Generally speaking, they're not.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Verily on September 14, 2008, 09:50:45 PM
But if we look at lasting effects, Egalabalus was the founder of Christmas. Hadrian was the founder of a wall in Northern England. ;D

El-Gabal existed as a target of worship, and his feast on the 25 December, long before Elagabalus tried to merge the sun cult and the state religion.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Lunar on September 15, 2008, 03:55:44 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_royalty

A
Alexander the Great
Alexander the Great's personal relationships
Luisa Isabel Alvarez de Toledo, 21st Duchess of Medina Sidonia
John Campbell, 9th Duke of Argyll
Prince Aribert of Anhalt
B
James Brooke
C
Charles I of Württemberg
Christina of Sweden
Grand Duke Constantine Constantinovich of Russia
E
Edward II of England
Elagabalus
F
Ferdinand I of Bulgaria
Francis, Duke of Cádiz
Frederick II of Prussia
G
Prince George of Greece and Denmark
Gian Gastone de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany
Manvendra Singh Gohil
Gustaf V of Sweden
H
Hadrian
J
James I of England
John II of France
K
Prince George, Duke of Kent
L
Ludwig II of Bavaria
L cont.
Archduke Ludwig Viktor of Austria
M
Mehmed II
Mwanga II of Buganda
P
Philip, Prince of Eulenburg
Prince Philipp of Hesse
Philippe I, Duke of Orléans
R
Rudolf II, Holy Roman Emperor
T
Trajan
U
Umberto II of Italy
W
William III of England


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: The Dowager Mod on September 15, 2008, 04:43:19 PM
Richard I of England.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on September 16, 2008, 10:45:00 PM
But if we look at lasting effects, Egalabalus was the founder of Christmas. Hadrian was the founder of a wall in Northern England. ;D

El-Gabal existed as a target of worship, and his feast on the 25 December, long before Elagabalus tried to merge the sun cult and the state religion.

But Egalabalus is the main reason it is commemorated today, AFAIK.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Verily on September 17, 2008, 11:41:52 AM
But if we look at lasting effects, Egalabalus was the founder of Christmas. Hadrian was the founder of a wall in Northern England. ;D

El-Gabal existed as a target of worship, and his feast on the 25 December, long before Elagabalus tried to merge the sun cult and the state religion.

But Egalabalus is the main reason it is commemorated today, AFAIK.

Maybe. Constantine was officially a follower of Sol Invictus, too, and the cult was already common among the army (not as much as Mithraism, but close) by the time Elagabalus came to the throne.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: War on Want on September 27, 2008, 02:26:36 AM
Alexander The Great, I bet he has been mentioned but he takes the cake. I mean he started a period of Hellenistic dominance for hundreds of years, without him history would have been radically different.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: ?????????? on September 30, 2008, 08:28:05 PM
Either Richard Simmons, Elton John or Liberace.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on October 01, 2008, 06:19:10 PM
Either Richard Simmons, Elton John or Liberace.

You're joking, I hope.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on October 09, 2008, 12:21:30 AM

     You deny the power of Liberace?! >:(


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: YRABNNRM on October 12, 2008, 11:58:18 AM

Of course he is; all three of those men are perfectly straight.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Dr. Cynic on October 15, 2008, 01:18:02 AM
Lots of old world leaders (especially in Rome) were flaming homosexuals. Not really a judgable category since we don't know everyone whow was gay...

Although Andrew Jackson sure had his suspicions about William Rufus DeVane King.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on October 15, 2008, 01:20:03 AM
Not really a judgable category since we don't know everyone whow was gay...

     Pretty much. There weren't many places where being gay was really acceptable until recently.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home. on October 20, 2008, 01:53:50 PM
Colon...POW!


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: RosettaStoned on November 17, 2008, 07:29:57 PM
Brian Kinney


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: chinaglenn on November 18, 2008, 07:41:18 AM

Richard Nixon?


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: pbrower2a on March 14, 2009, 02:09:22 AM
Music?

Frydryk Chopin.

Franz Schubert.

Piotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky.

George Gershwin.

Billy Strahorn.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: RosettaStoned on April 01, 2009, 02:52:23 PM
Me, when I become the first openly gay man to be elected to the Senate.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Bono on April 01, 2009, 04:18:14 PM
Walt Whitman.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Earth on April 01, 2009, 06:47:02 PM
I am the mostest powerful ghey in history. I'm not ghey.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: The Mikado on April 01, 2009, 10:45:55 PM
Plato?

In lasting influence, not in political power.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Platypus on April 01, 2009, 10:48:02 PM
*Probably* Zeus.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: 12th Doctor on April 02, 2009, 12:09:03 AM
King Herod

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_9uH-ELJE


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on January 15, 2010, 09:26:21 AM
Another gay thread ;)


In the United States, President James Buchanan

Unproven.


You're biggest intelectual fail I've ever saw here.


In the U.S., I think so.


My God, that's a nice point!


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: MASHED POTATOES. VOTE! on January 15, 2010, 09:27:16 AM

It's FRYDERYK Chopin!!!!


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Tetro Kornbluth on January 15, 2010, 09:31:18 AM
To consider Alexander the Great 'gay' is actually quite anachronistic.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on January 15, 2010, 10:01:28 AM

Chopin wasn't a homosexual anyway. Plenty of other composers were, of course.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Filuwaúrdjan on January 15, 2010, 10:08:32 AM

Chopin wasn't a homosexual anyway. Plenty of other composers were, of course.

The same goes for some of the other names on pbrower's list. Amazing.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Grumpier Than Uncle Joe on January 15, 2010, 11:06:54 AM

The pupil becomes the master......  ;)

Alexander


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: Bo on January 15, 2010, 09:51:12 PM
Alexander the Great.


Title: Re: Most powerful gay in world history
Post by: patrick1 on January 15, 2010, 11:27:20 PM
Julius III