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General Discussion => Religion & Philosophy => Topic started by: ?????????? on October 01, 2008, 10:18:24 PM



Title: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: ?????????? on October 01, 2008, 10:18:24 PM
Christians, Muslims and Jews here, what is your take on this issue?


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Countess Anya of the North Parish on October 01, 2008, 10:27:00 PM
no. Sometimes people believe in fate/ destiny. And you can't control it. But sometimes times in after life you can repent. That is if you believe in it.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: © tweed on October 01, 2008, 10:28:12 PM
I'm not going to vote because I am not a member of said religions.

but what is 'eternal separation from God?'  what makes it so bad?  Hell would suck if it's all fiery and whatnot, but from what I understand that is a medieval creation and the initial definition was, in fact, 'separation from God.'


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Reluctant Republican on October 01, 2008, 10:37:51 PM
I don’t know. I hope not, personally. Most people who kill themselves are in such dire straits already, I’d hope God would grant some leniency to them. And what about the people who are old, or dying of some terrible disease who take their life because they can no longer take the physical pain? What if they kill themselves to spare their family from going bankrupt over their care? I personally  just think there have to exceptions to the whole rule, depending on the whole situation. I guess the question really is, is there such a thing as a “justifiable suicide?” And is it a sin in God’s eyes to begin with? But hey, I guess no one truly knows.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Countess Anya of the North Parish on October 01, 2008, 10:42:54 PM
I don’t know. I hope not, personally. Most people who kill themselves are in such dire straits already, I’d hope God would grant some leniency to them. And what about the people who are old, or dying of some terrible disease who take their life because they can no longer take the physical pain? What if they kill themselves to spare their family from going bankrupt over their care? I personally  just think there have to exceptions to the whole rule, depending on the whole situation. I guess the question really is, is there such a thing as a “justifiable suicide?” And is it a sin in God’s eyes to begin with? But hey, I guess no one truly knows.

The way you just wrote, " What if they kill themselves to spare their family from going bankrupt over their care" sounds like they would kill themselfs over the amount of money. Yet god thinks money is not what should keep a family together.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Reluctant Republican on October 01, 2008, 10:49:54 PM
I don’t know. I hope not, personally. Most people who kill themselves are in such dire straits already, I’d hope God would grant some leniency to them. And what about the people who are old, or dying of some terrible disease who take their life because they can no longer take the physical pain? What if they kill themselves to spare their family from going bankrupt over their care? I personally  just think there have to exceptions to the whole rule, depending on the whole situation. I guess the question really is, is there such a thing as a “justifiable suicide?” And is it a sin in God’s eyes to begin with? But hey, I guess no one truly knows.

The way you just wrote, " What if they kill themselves to spare their family from going bankrupt over their care" sounds like they would kill themselfs over the amount of money. Yet god thinks money is not what should keep a family together.

Well, it depends on they could hold on in agony for three months or so and rack up a huge bill at the hospital that goes to their family and ruins all their lives, or they can end it now and save the family finances and prevent the family from having them see the decline of their once beloved family member. Faced with these options, what would you do? I’d hope to have enough courage to kill myself, in this scenario.

And Money is not everything, but we live in an imperfect world, and I so for the sake of things, I think it’s better to do everything you can to protect your family from additional hardships, I think.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Countess Anya of the North Parish on October 01, 2008, 11:07:38 PM
I don’t know. I hope not, personally. Most people who kill themselves are in such dire straits already, I’d hope God would grant some leniency to them. And what about the people who are old, or dying of some terrible disease who take their life because they can no longer take the physical pain? What if they kill themselves to spare their family from going bankrupt over their care? I personally  just think there have to exceptions to the whole rule, depending on the whole situation. I guess the question really is, is there such a thing as a “justifiable suicide?” And is it a sin in God’s eyes to begin with? But hey, I guess no one truly knows.

The way you just wrote, " What if they kill themselves to spare their family from going bankrupt over their care" sounds like they would kill themselfs over the amount of money. Yet god thinks money is not what should keep a family together.

Well, it depends on they could hold on in agony for three months or so and rack up a huge bill at the hospital that goes to their family and ruins all their lives, or they can end it now and save the family finances and prevent the family from having them see the decline of their once beloved family member. Faced with these options, what would you do? I’d hope to have enough courage to kill myself, in this scenario.

And Money is not everything, but we live in an imperfect world, and I so for the sake of things, I think it’s better to do everything you can to protect your family from additional hardships, I think.
Why are you looking at in in the "Napoleon" way?


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: tik 🪀✨ on October 01, 2008, 11:35:41 PM
As a post-Christian, I have heard Christians declare to me that suicide is an unforgivable sin. None could ever point at why this was. Perhaps it is the ultimate act of selfishness, ending your own existence. It's playing God with your very being. If you could see me I would be shrugging right now.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: © tweed on October 02, 2008, 12:05:11 AM

hah, I like that.  it sounds like a music or art genre.  but I think you chose that phrasing over "ex-Christian" for a reason.  is post-Christianity the natural evolution of a disillusioned and intellectual yet spiritual individual who doesn't categorically reject Christ but instead, sees him as a set of guidelines but rather than a set of rules?  this has potential.  it really is too bad I shouldn't have anything to do with it as I DO categorically reject Christ.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Associate Justice PiT on October 02, 2008, 01:06:54 AM
As a post-Christian, I have heard Christians declare to me that suicide is an unforgivable sin. None could ever point at why this was. Perhaps it is the ultimate act of selfishness, ending your own existence. It's playing God with your very being. If you could see me I would be shrugging right now.

     As I heard it, they decided that committing suicide was an unforgiveable sin because many Catholics were committing suicide in the early days of the Church. I don't remember the details though.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Eraserhead on October 02, 2008, 11:50:29 AM

hah, I like that.  it sounds like a music or art genre.  but I think you chose that phrasing over "ex-Christian" for a reason.  is post-Christianity the natural evolution of a disillusioned and intellectual yet spiritual individual who doesn't categorically reject Christ but instead, sees him as a set of guidelines but rather than a set of rules?  this has potential.  it really is too bad I shouldn't have anything to do with it as I DO categorically reject Christ.

^^^^

lol.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 02, 2008, 05:41:12 PM
Absolutely not and I don't believe it is a sin either.

I think few people believe this these days.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: DownWithTheLeft on October 02, 2008, 06:21:58 PM
Absolutely not and I don't believe it is a sin either.

I think few people believe this these days.
???

Really?  Its the ultimate act of selfishness and trying to destroy God's will.  Its a sin but I'm not sure if it ends in eternal seperation from God.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Kaine for Senate '18 on October 02, 2008, 06:26:20 PM
Shockingly, I agree with DWTL.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Хahar 🤔 on October 03, 2008, 12:13:02 AM
Option 2.

I think DWDL says it here.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 03, 2008, 12:15:38 AM
Absolutely not and I don't believe it is a sin either.

I think few people believe this these days.
???

Really?  Its the ultimate act of selfishness and trying to destroy God's will.  Its a sin but I'm not sure if it ends in eternal seperation from God.

I really don't think suicide is the "ultimate" act of selfishness.

Those that committ suicide are not stable. I don't believe (and neither does the Church, by the way) that God punishes those that aren't able to think rationally.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: they don't love you like i love you on October 03, 2008, 12:26:23 AM
Absolutely not and I don't believe it is a sin either.

I think few people believe this these days.
???

Really?  Its the ultimate act of selfishness and trying to destroy God's will.  Its a sin but I'm not sure if it ends in eternal seperation from God.

I really don't think suicide is the "ultimate" act of selfishness.

Those that committ suicide are not stable. I don't believe (and neither does the Church, by the way) that God punishes those that aren't able to think rationally.

So what about the 9/11 hijackers?


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: memphis on October 03, 2008, 12:51:48 AM
God is everything and everywhere. Nothing and noone can be separated from God.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: © tweed on October 03, 2008, 01:26:15 AM
God is everything and everywhere. Nothing and noone can be separated from God.

spooky!


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: John Dibble on October 03, 2008, 07:51:11 AM
God is everything and everywhere. Nothing and noone can be separated from God.

spooky!

Spooky? Not really, but God is rather disgusting. He's watching you when you're taking a dump, he's watching you when you masturbate, and he's seen your mom naked too. I really wish someone would do something about that disgusting pervert.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 03, 2008, 12:50:11 PM
Absolutely not and I don't believe it is a sin either.

I think few people believe this these days.
???

Really?  Its the ultimate act of selfishness and trying to destroy God's will.  Its a sin but I'm not sure if it ends in eternal seperation from God.

I really don't think suicide is the "ultimate" act of selfishness.

Those that committ suicide are not stable. I don't believe (and neither does the Church, by the way) that God punishes those that aren't able to think rationally.

So what about the 9/11 hijackers?

What about them? Are you really asking if I think that their suicide was justified? It doesn't compare, dope. Their suicide isn't simply excused since they were responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people. It's not simply a suicide.

Then again, I'm not in God's position to say whether or not they're truly sorry for their sin. I do have a feeling that with their warped, murderous thinking that they aren't in heaven...


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: afleitch on October 03, 2008, 01:19:44 PM
I don't think it should; as in ending one's life through choice whether rational or irrational. That's all I can say as someone who intends to prepare a 'living will.'


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: © tweed on October 03, 2008, 02:25:37 PM
God is everything and everywhere. Nothing and noone can be separated from God.

spooky!

Spooky? Not really, but God is rather disgusting. He's watching you when you're taking a dump, he's watching you when you masturbate, and he's seen your mom naked too. I really wish someone would do something about that disgusting pervert.

not only has he watched my naked mom, he is my naked mom.  weird!


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: JSojourner on October 03, 2008, 03:24:47 PM
No.

It is a sin.  A particularly selfish one in SOME cases.  In a few cases, it is not a sin at all, but a very noble act. 

Most of the time, it's just wrong.  And selfish.

But the question always worries me.  I wonder what's behind it. 


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 03, 2008, 04:37:43 PM
I'm pretty surprised at how many people here think that it's a selfish act. Is it selfish is some regards? Yes. I'm not sure that it is in most cases though. Now when we're talking about Budd Dwyer type situations...well...don't even get me started on that disgrace...


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: ?????????? on October 04, 2008, 02:13:11 AM
I'm pretty surprised at how many people here think that it's a selfish act. Is it selfish is some regards? Yes. I'm not sure that it is in most cases though. Now when we're talking about Budd Dwyer type situations...well...don't even get me started on that disgrace...

Well, I think when a lot of people say it's "selfish" they are not necessarily talking about the person who kills himself. I think, at least to me, that the act is selfish to the family of the loved one. How a person could end their life when they may have a lot of family for support and he is taking himself from his/her family. I worked with someone who killed himself and he had a wife and two children, very sad for his family and very selfish.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Keystone Phil on October 04, 2008, 02:18:25 AM
I'm pretty surprised at how many people here think that it's a selfish act. Is it selfish is some regards? Yes. I'm not sure that it is in most cases though. Now when we're talking about Budd Dwyer type situations...well...don't even get me started on that disgrace...

Well, I think when a lot of people say it's "selfish" they are not necessarily talking about the person who kills himself. I think, at least to me, that the act is selfish to the family of the loved one. How a person could end their life when they may have a lot of family for support and he is taking himself from his/her family. I worked with someone who killed himself and he had a wife and two children, very sad for his family and very selfish.

Oh, yes, I totally agree with that.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: J. J. on October 04, 2008, 08:25:07 AM
I could see this situationally.  An act of martyrdom could be considered suicide. 

I would also say that it is not always, even in non-martyrdom cases, selfish.  Someone who kills themselves not to be a burden to others is not selfish.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: ?????????? on October 04, 2008, 09:11:47 AM
I could see this situationally.  An act of martyrdom could be considered suicide. 

I would also say that it is not always, even in non-martyrdom cases, selfish.  Someone who kills themselves not to be a burden to others is not selfish.

I think calling someone a "burden" to someone is a horrible way to look at life.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: © tweed on October 04, 2008, 09:54:43 AM
I could see this situationally.  An act of martyrdom could be considered suicide. 

I would also say that it is not always, even in non-martyrdom cases, selfish.  Someone who kills themselves not to be a burden to others is not selfish.

I think calling someone a "burden" to someone is a horrible way to look at life.

life is no fairytale, States.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: ?????????? on October 04, 2008, 10:01:42 AM

Duh, but that doesn't make that statement non-great. Of course, as of late, you've had a rather depressing view of things.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: J. J. on October 04, 2008, 12:02:44 PM
I could see this situationally.  An act of martyrdom could be considered suicide. 

I would also say that it is not always, even in non-martyrdom cases, selfish.  Someone who kills themselves not to be a burden to others is not selfish.

I think calling someone a "burden" to someone is a horrible way to look at life.

There may be a time when it will be me.  I've signed the order and have the person to carry it out chosen.  I've basically told everyone else to f*** off.

Terminate with extreme prejudice. 

I'm not one to stand on ceremony.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: Joe Biden 2020 on October 04, 2008, 04:13:54 PM
Option 4.  I believe that suicide, while its a sin, is no more sinful than any other sin outside of blasphemy of God himself.  It depends if the person had given their heart and life to Christ sometime in their life before he or she ended it.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: jokerman on October 05, 2008, 10:35:55 PM
but what is 'eternal separation from God?'  what makes it so bad?
Because humanity's relationship with God could be its only source of purpose in the universe.  Of course you're a nihilist, so you've given up on the pursuit of meaning or purpose for humanity, but it's a question that troubles me constantly.


Title: Re: Does suicide end in eternal separation from God?
Post by: tik 🪀✨ on October 05, 2008, 11:11:24 PM
but what is 'eternal separation from God?'  what makes it so bad?
Because humanity's relationship with God could be its only source of purpose in the universe.  Of course you're a nihilist, so you've given up on the pursuit of meaning or purpose for humanity, but it's a question that troubles me constantly.

Why does humanity need a purpose in the universe? We can fool ourselves with faith into believing whatever suits us to mask the meaninglessness of existence, and therefore be bombarded with complications and implications arising from said faith. What is so wrong with believing that our existence is unexplainable and therefore living our lives simply in the best ways we're aware, seeking no fulfillment besides solutions to that which seems prudent now and in the long term? There is happiness in simplicity and contentedness in simply living to be - for whatever flicker of time we've been granted. Ultimately a search for a "deeper purpose" will arrive to something wholly simplistic, as such.