Talk Elections

ward 6: Obama-476-58-mccain
ward 10: Obama-496-86-mccain
ward 12: Obama-464-23-mccain
ward 13: Obama-330-11-mccain
ward 18: Obama-46-448-mccain
ward 20: Obama-123-512-mccain
ward 21: Obama-98-375-mccain
ward 28: Obama-51-518-mccain
ward 35: Obama-12-671-mccain

I could continue but you get the point.

anyone know where this is from?

hint: not the south.

Interesting results, but no clue where it could be. It has to be somewhere where its minorities living close to very conservative whites.

Not in the South? Cincinnati? Springfield MO?

Not close to the south and not culturally southern either.

Oakland?

Hmm.  Hassidic Jewish enclave?  Monroe County, NY?  Somewhere in NYC?  Am I on the right track?

The right track, but not the places you mentioned.

Oakland???? Let me break down Oakland voting habits real quick. The blacks and hispanics on the plains vote 9-1 democrat while the rich whites and Asians on the hills vote 7-3 democrat. This year those hill people probably went close to 8-2 Obama. Needless to say you are wrong. :)

Ocean County, NJ?

Wisconsin

Williamsburg or Crown Heights, Brooklyn?

My thought was Milwaukee.

I have a friend in Baltimore who was surprised to find herself in an 85% McCain neighborhood of Orthodox Jews. Was this it?

It is indeed Hasidic Jews, but the place is the town of Ramapo, New York, which includes monsey and new square.

http://www.co.rockland.ny.us/BOE/DISTRICT110408.PDF (http://www.co.rockland.ny.us/BOE/DISTRICT110408.PDF)

So, does that mean one rebbe said McCain and another one said Obama?

Far more likely that all the ultra-orthodox voted McCain, and it's other groupings who voted Obama.

Yep, that's pretty much how it works.

Although the ultra-orthodox do vote Democratic en masse, just not nearly as often.  Extremely strong tribal voting patterns.

they are single issue voters.  If they think either candidate MIGHT do something they perceive as iffy with respect to Israel, they will avoid that candidate like the plague.  I'd imagine those areas are regularly voting REpublican (for PRes, at least) and voted stronger than usual for McCain this time.  Most Israelis I know voted McCain.

Yup, the one country in the world who weren't crazy for Obama was Israel.
I think that although the Jewish vote is generally Democratic, the ultra-orthodox are far more Republican. This time it was even more so, due to Obama being lighter on Iran, and also fears for his stand on the entire middle-east.

See also Stamford Hill in Hackney.

And golders green, but there's more variation there, although traditionally they've supported the Conservatives, like the wider Jewish community. However, recently more ultra-orthodox have been voting Labour. With the obvious exception of Ken Livingstone.

Yes, it's interesting in that there's actual anti-Semitism and widespread anti-Israel sentiment in the British left, while in the U.S., it's almost completely marginalized.

Because the British left consists mostly of class lines. There are plenty of American "rightists" who would be staunch "leftists" in Britain (read: Republicans, Labourites), and the reverse is also true. The US's left-right economic divides, where it has them (rarely) tend to be along racial lines. And many of those American Republicans who would be British Labourites harbor some pretty strong anti-Semitic views. Of course, even that is mitigated by the very American view that Israel is basically a satellite state of the US.

In part that'd be because they're richer; IIRC the party affluent Jews in Golders Green and so on voted for when the local Tory establishment was at its most anti-Semitic (this'd be over 40 years ago now) were the Liberals, not Labour (you still get traces of this in local elections, weirdly). Mind you, under normal (ie; non-Livingstone-influenced) circumstances Labour does a lot better in the strongly Jewish (according to the census; so many secular Jews are missed, changing the geographical pattern) parts of Barnet than you'd normally expect for affluent-to-rich middle suburbia. Not so much in Harrow for whatever reason.


In that part of London (extending out into Herts), yeah (since the '70's or so anyway). The Manchester and Leeds Jewish votes have been quite heavily Labour in recent General Elections IIRC.


Though even Livingstone did well with them in 2004 IIRC. But that was before... well... aha...

Fun fact; in one ward in Hendon with a big Jewish population, several hundred more people voted for the Labour candidate in a local council by-election than for Livingstone (both were on the same day). And it's obvious from turnout figures that a lot of them didn't vote in the London elections at all.

Of course you also have a strong tradition in the opposite direction; the guy who Livingstone (basically) cheated out of his seat in 1985 (Reg Freeson) ran (amongst other things) the British branch of Poale Zion for years.

Out of interest, where do you think there is a stronger representation of Jews - in the Conservative party or Labour? I've always thought the Conservatives had more, but even Labour have a couple of Jews actually in government, and the likely next leader of Labour is Jewish! Also, does that affect the Jewish vote at all? What about the guys running for to be councillers in Jewish areas, whom I presume are mostly Jewish themselves, does that affect the party they'd go for?

Notes from the New Square precincts (Precinct 55 & 58 in Ramapo)

1) Casting 14 votes and over 1900 blank ballots on a statewide question
2) 619 blank ballots and 44 votes for Obama. 1/4th of the blank ballot total came out of there
3) Engel wins 1897 to 18 with 25 blanks
4) Morahan wins 1903 to 9 with 28 blanks

so, it sounds like McCain didn't get a full endorsement, or some endorsed him and some didn't.

Hillary won 849 to 0 in the primary with 1 blank.

McCain won 456 of 474 votes in the Republican primary, with 10 votes for Huckabee, 4 for Rudy, 2 for Romney, 1 for Ron Paul and 1 blank.

In 2004, Bush won 1567 to 16 with 1 vote for Nader

In the 2004 primary, John Edwards won 296 votes, Kerry won 3 votes, Clark won 1 vote.