Talk Elections

These are the leaders (general secretaries or first secretaries or presidents of the party, with the sole exception of Nagy, PM, and of secretary Rakowski, not included as he wasn't Poland's nr.1 at that time) of Communist Parties (whatever their real name) in power in the USSR and in the Central and East European countries between 1945-49 and 1989 (November, 9th, Berlin wall's fall), that were, at least for a period of time, members of the Warsaw Pact.
Hence, Yugoslavia is not included (besides, with one leader each year after 1980, it would have been a bit long... sorry to our "titists" !).


1. Wladyslaw Gomulka (Poland, 1945-1948, 1956-1970)
2. Boleslaw Bierut (Poland, 1948-1956)
3. Edward Ochab (Poland, 1956)   
4. Edward Gierek (Poland, 1970-1980)   
5. Stanislaw Kania (Poland, 1980-1981)   
6. Wojciech Jaruzelski (Poland, 1981-1989)   

7. Georgi Dimitrov (Bulgaria, 1945-1949)
8. Vulko Chervenkov (Bulgaria, 1949-1954)
9. Todor Zhivkov (Bulgaria, 1954-1989)

10. Wilhelm Pieck (East Germany, 1946-1950)   
11. Walter Ulbricht (East Germany, 1950-1971)
12. Erich Honecker (East Germany, 1971-1989)   
13. Egon Krenz (East Germany, 1989)   

14. Matyas Rakosi (Hungary, 1945-1956)   
15. Ernö Gerö (Hungary, 1956)
16. Imre Nagy (Hungary, 1956)
17. Janos Kadar (Hungary, 1956-1988)
18. Karoly Grosz (Hungary, 1988-1989)

19. Enver Hoxha (Albania, 1944-1985)
20. Ramiz Alia (Albania, 1985-1991)   

21. Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej (Romania, 1945-1954, 1955-1965)
22. Gheorghe Apostol (Romania, 1954-1955)   
23. Nicolae Ceausescu (Romania, 1965-1989)

24. Klement Gottwald (Czechoslovakia, 1945-1953)
25. Antonin Novotny (Czechoslovakia, 1953-1968)
26. Alexander Dubcek (Czechoslovakia, 1968-1969)   
27. Gustav Husak (Czechoslovakia, 1969-1987)   
28. Milos Jakes (Czechoslovakia, 1987-1989)   

29. Iosif Dzhugashvili Stalin (USSR, 1922-1953)
30. Georgy Malenkov (USSR, 1953)
31. Nikita Khrushchev (USSR, 1953-1964)
32. Leonid Brezhnev (USSR, 1964-1982)
33. Yuri Andropov (USSR, 1982-1984)
34. Konstantin Chernenko (USSR, 1984-1985)   
35. Mikhail Gorbachev (USSR, 1985-1991)


Results:
round one: Stalin 10
round two: Hoxha 5, Ceausescu 4
round three: Ceausescu 6, Rakosi 1, Bierut 1
round four: Rakosi 5, Bierut 2, Zhivkov 2
round five: Zhivkov 3, Bierut 2, Gottwald 2, Chervenkov 1
round six: Gottwald 4, Bierut 3, Chervenkov 2
round seven: Bierut 4, Chervenkov 1
round eight: Gheorghiu-Dej 5, Chervenkov 2
round nine: Ulbricht 3, Honecker 2, Chervenkov 1
round ten: Chervenkov 5, Gomulka 1
round eleven: Novotny 3, Gerö 2, Husak 1
round twelve: Gerö 6, Gomulka 1, Brezhnev 1
round thirteen: Dimitrov 4, Brezhnev 3
round fourteen: Brezhnev 5, Chernenko 2, Alia 1, Krenz 1
round fifteen: Chernenko 7, Honecker 1
round sixteen: Honecker 6, Malenkov 2
round seventeen: Alia 3, Husak 2, Gomulka 1, Krenz 1, Malenkov 1
round eighteen: Malenkov 3, Gomulka 2, Ochab 1
round nineteen: Gomulka 5, Husak 1, Ochab 1, Khrushchev 1
round twenty: Pieck 4, Krenz 3, Husak 1
round twenty-one: Husak 7, Krenz 2
round twenty-two: Krenz 6, Khrushchev 2
round twenty-three: Jakes 3, Ochab 1, Khrushchev 1, Kadar 1
round twenty-four: Apostol 5, Kadar 1, Jaruzelski 1
round twenty-five: Ochab 6, Khrushchev 1
round twenty-six: Gierek 5, Jaruzelski 2, Khrushchev 1
round twenty-seven: Kania 4, Khrushchev 3, Jaruzelski 2, Kadar 1
round twenty-eight: Jaruzelski 3, Khrushchev 2, Kadar 2
round twenty-nine: Khrushchev 6, Kadar 1, Gorbachev 1
round thirty: Kadar 5, Andropov 2, Gorbachev 1
round thirty-one: Andropov 6, Gorbachev 1
round thirty-two: Grosz 6, Dubcek 3
round thirty-three: Gorbachev 6, Dubcek 3
round thirty-four: Dubcek 6, Nagy 3

Vote for the leader you want to eliminate. Vote is open for 24 hours+.

Before my 20th century survivor and as Kalwejt Polish survivor is over, let's try this one...

Don't blame me for accents, misspellings, wrong writings, etc...

It will be a difficult choice between mostly evil men, but I've always been fascinated by the communist machinery...

VOTE IS NOT OPEN FOR THE MOMENT.

Just a few hours for comments, ideas, critics, and we'll be able to start.

Great idea :D

I got one comment. I'm not sure we can count Rakowski, who became the first secretary when Mazowiecki already takes over government and Jaruzelski became President. Yes, he was prime minister before, but Jaruzelski was the one most important. 

He became first sec when Kiszczak was PM, but, you're right, Jaruzelski was the real nr.1 as President.
Mmmm... not very easy...

And I wonder whether I should keep Grotewohl and add Nagy, in order to have only real nr.1.

     Hmm, this seems like it will be quite interesting.

Stalin

Voting not open.

Can we have all communist leaders?

What do you mean ?

Yugoslavia ? It would be too long, unless I don't pick anybody after 1980 or only "real" nr.1, which is very hard to do.

Other countries ? With China, it's too complex to pick only a handful of leaders (and why stop in 1989 ?) and would be too long here (but that's an idea I've got for another Survivor !).

With other countries outside the COMECON, were they really communist ? (Ethiopia, Angola, South Yemen, Afghanistan, etc)

With other countries INSIDE the COMECON, I've thought about it, but it would be too "exotic" in comparison with old Czechosloavia or East Germany (Cuba is really another debate; Vietnam also) or we wouldn't be able to have an "enlightened" view, I think (see Mongolia).
And that would put inside Vietnam and aside North Korea. And if I include Vietnam, I must put inside North Korea and I must include China, and Laos, etc.

So, I'd prefer to stick to the USSR and East European countries, unless you have another idea.

Kiszczak was obvious placeholder for little over half of a month. This was after election after round table.

Ironically, Rakowski was rather a positive figure of post-World War II history. Not because involvment in the government (at end), but heading "Polityka", the most independent press title in entire bloc, for decades. He acted positivly during March 1968 sad events.

My opinion:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Bulgaria
Benin
Cambodia
China
Cuba
Czechoslovakia
Ethiopia
Germany (East)
Grenada
Hungary
Korea (North)
Laos
Mongolia
Mozambique
Nicaragua
Poland
Romania
Somalia
Soviet Union
Vietnam
Yemen (South)
Yugoslavia

I am sure I have forgotten some countries.

Nicaragua was never communist.

Eh, they were COMECON observers.

If you take also allies like Somalia, you have to include Congo, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, and even Syria, Iraq, Sao Tomé...

It goes too far.

I wanted to justify my list with Soviet-imposed regimes (to justify that Yugoslavia, but also Cuba and Vietnam are excluded) and I would have included Mongolia, but Albania wouldn't fit.

So, let's stick to Warsaw Pact, a big criteria BTW !

Some changes and we can go:

ROUND ONE IS OPEN

Vote away !

I vote for Stalin.

     Stalin.

Stalin

Stalin

Stalin

Stalin

Stalin, the most obvious choice!

A unanimous first round ?

Come on, guys, please vote for this opening round !

Stalin

Stalin.

Stalin

There are only two leaders on this list that could be considered overall positive, and maybe another two or three that could be considered "acceptable" (under the circumstances of the time) making most of it rather uninteresting like this round.

I also don't understand why Lenin wasn't included.

Cold War is a reason

Please read the opening post.
It's about Warsaw Pact leaders.

Survivors aren't only among "good" people ! Or they are boring.
And what are "overall positive" and "acceptable" people ?
Everyone has his own definition.
What is more, I'm not responsible for, ahem, the bad quality of communist leaders :D

What is interesting in a Survivor is the order in which people are eliminated... And here, I think it's especially interesting :)
Sorry for writing something so obvious...

It's fine to see a quite good turnout for an austere Survivor in a not-very-read board.
But you aren't forced to vote in, if you don't like it ;)

Stalin is out, with a big unanimity. Thanks for this fine turnout.

ROUND TWO IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders in opening post)

I vote for Hoxha

Nicolae Ceausescu

The worst from all later Warsaw Pact leaders

Sorry, just one more comment, Gomółka was the PPR first secretary from 1945, but Bierut still was effective leader.

Anyway, really cool idea :D

Already a fight in sight between Ceausescu and Hoxha !
Fine !

Come & vote, guys !

Hoxha

Ceausescu

Nicolae Ceauşescu

Hoxha.

     Nicolae Ceausescu

Hoxha

First round was unamious, and now we got close race :D

Enver Hoxha
His misrule continued far longer and went even further in reshaping his country's society.

After a close contest, the little Stalin of Albania is out.

ROUND THREE IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders in opening post)

I vote for Ceausescu,
who indeed deserves to be ousted now.

Ceausescu

Strange that it only takes three to be knocked off before all the notably odious leaders are gone.

Nicolae Ceauşescu

     Nicolae Ceauşescu

Nicolae Ceauşescu

Matyas Rakosi

This time Bierut

After his death Poland has the softest regime in entire bloc, but under him it was harsh as hell

We've killed Ceausescu.

ROUND FOUR IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders in opening post)

I vote for Rakosi, a really harsh one in Hungary.

     Bierut

Zhivkov

Bierut

Zhivkov

Matyas Rakosi -  one of the worst of the Stalin era party leaders.

Matyas Rakosi

Oh yes !

Rakosi

Matyas Rakosi

The little Stalin of Hungary is out.

ROUND FIVE IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders in opening post)

I vote for Klement Gottwald.

Zhivkov

Zhivkov.

I'm surprised GMantis doesn't seem to have a personal grudge against him.

     Bierut

Zhivkov wasn't that bad. True, he reigned far too long and of course he was a dictator and committed crimes, but he wasn't anywhere in Hoxha's or Ceausescu's league. The country also developed greatly during his rule and unlike Bulgaria's current leaders, he seems to have genuinely cared about Bulgaria's national interests. Many people who were against him when he was in power, have fond memories of his rule now.
In any case, he's much better than Vulko Chervenkov (means Wolf Red and is entirely fitting), who tried very hard to be Bulgaria's Stalin.
My vote is for Vulko Chervenkov.

Zhivkov

Klement Gottwald

Bolesław Bierut, little Stalin from Poland

The little Brezhnev of Bulgaria is out, after a fiercely contested round. He's the first to be eliminated with only a plurality of votes.

ROUND SIX IS OPEN

I vote again for Klement Gottwald,
the man who killed the only real democracy in Eastern Europe and who launched the Slansky-London et alii trials.

Ok, Gottwald

But in next rounds I won't rest until Bierut is out

Bierut

Bierut

If Zhivkov deserves to go, Chervenkov certainly does so. After all, Stalin was worse than Brezhnev, so Bulgaria's Stalin logically was worse than Bulgaria's Brezhnev.

     Bierut

Kalwejt: no rule prevents you from switching your vote, now that Bierut seems to be about to fall ;) (but, sure, Hans-im-Glück hasn't voted and the Zhivkov voters are up for grabs)
Of course, if Gottwald is ousted this round, I'll vote for Bierut in the next :)

GMantis: does that mean you vote for Chervenkov ?

Yes.

Gottwald

Vulko Chervenkov

Gottwald

Another fiercely contested round :)
I'll wait a bit, all the more as some of our "usual voters" haven't come yet.

The man of the Prague Coup is out in a quite competitive round.

ROUND SEVEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders in opening post)

I vote for Bierut
:)

Vulko Chervenkov

Boleslaw Bierut

Bierut

Come on guys, we need your vote !

Bierut

At last, Bierut is out, but with the lowest turnout :(
Come on, guys, please vote and make other forumers vote !

ROUND EIGHT IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders in opening post)

I vote for Chervenkov.

I vote for Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej

I think he was worse than Ceausescu. He was the founder of the Securitate and extrem violent against the opposition.

Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej

Very unpleasent guy like Ceaucescu, but in worse, Stalinist period

Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej

Oh, I was about to vote for him in next round. Indeed, he was a really bad one...
Fine vote, guys.

Anyway, it seems as if he won't need my vote to be ousted :)

Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej

Gheorghiu-Dej is a good idea, but he doesn't need my vote.
Vulko Chervenkov

     Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej

Another evil Romanian leader is out (maybe even worse than Ceausescu, Hans-im-Glück is right).
I only regret not to have voted for him ;)

ROUND NINE IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders in opening post)

I vote for the monolithic Walter Ulbricht.

East German leaders haven't even received one vote up to now. And still, there are here some big bad guys !

Honecker

     Ulbricht

Vulko Chervenkov

Erich Honecker

I vote for Walter Ulbricht, the man of the 17 June 1953 and who build the Berlin Wall

My ranking of the East German Leaders:

11. Walter Ulbricht (East Germany, 1950-1971)   A Evil Man (but the Saxons Vote him as the "Saxon of the Millennium" ;))
  
13. Egon Krenz (East Germany, 1989)  totally incompetent, a joke politician

12. Erich Honecker (East Germany, 1971-1989)  evil, but less than Ulbricht, more a bureaucrat

10. Wilhelm Pieck (East Germany, 1946-1950)   Not my favourite man, but the best in this list, old school communist

Ulbricht was really a slave of the Soviet Union (and of Stalin, first), a stupid slave, what is more.

Ulbricht has been eliminated, over its successor Honecker.

ROUND TEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders in opening post)

I vote for Chervenkov, a real dictator, even if not well known in the West.

Wladyslaw Gomulka

For March 1968

Vulko Chervenkov

     Chervenkov

Vulko Chervenkov
I would say that calling him a dictator would be flattering him. He was just the tool with which Stalin ruled Bulgaria. Not surprising that he didn't last long after Stalin's death.

Vulko Chervenkov

At last, Chervenkov is eliminated.
With Bierut, he's our biggest vote-getter for the moment, with more votes than Stalin and Ceausescu... but over many rounds of course !

ROUND ELEVEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders in opening post)

I vote for Ernö Gerö.

If Rakosi was the little Stalin of Hungary, Gerö was nothing else than a little... Rakosi.

Ernö Gerö

Gustav Husak. Mostly for how he was installed.

Well, if I can... ;) it's a disappointing vote, as Novotny is far worse (even if he ruled under the Khrushchevian era and many still think he was far better than Gottwald, he was in fact a real Stalinist): so, you would have a "fine" contender against Gerö.

But, of course, that's only my opinion.

Novotny

     Novotny

Antonín Novotný

Even if some of our usual voters haven't voted, Novotny is out.
A fine choice ;), I wish I'd voted for him myself :'(.

ROUND TWELVE IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote again for Ernö Gerö.

As I've said, Rakosi = "little Stalin", Gerö = "little Rakosi".

Ernö Gerö

Ernö Gerö

I goint to be sectarian once again ;)

Wladyslaw Gomulka

Brezhnev

Ernö Gerö

Boleslaw Bierut

Nice to see you again in this survivor.
But not nice to see you voting for an already out leader ;)
No strict rules in here, so please pick another guy !

     Gerö

Ernö Gerö

A clear "victory" for Gerö and, what is more, a high turnout. Thanks guys ! :)

ROUND THIRTEEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for Georgi Dimitrov.

He may have had an image of former communist hero, sort of, and he may have benefited from dying early.
But he was a very loyal Stalin "agent".

I'm awaiting for some reactions... ;)

Ok, it's a time or a biggie:

Leonid Brezhnev

Leonid Brezhnev

He was the man of the stagnation.

Zastoi, yes, but wasn't a Stalinist like Dimitrov worse, or even ... Khrushchev, as he took part actively in Stalin's repression ?

@ fab
Yes there gives worse leaders like Brezhnev, but he had a long time the power to make something good. What he did? Nothing. No he begin a war in Afghanistan.

You're right, I just wanted to discuss...
He was a stupid and frightened guy, corrupt and hypocritical. He began his career under Stalin. He promoted dumb asses (Chernenko, Tikhonov, Grishin, Kunaev, Rashidov, etc). He was (collectively) responsible for Prague 1968 and Kabul 1979.
His only positive gestures were not to have killed Sakharov, Soljenitsyn (but he simply couldn't afford it...since the Soviet Union was already weakened) and Khrushchev (but I think he was afraid to be killed himself if he were ousted... and Shelepin was still around at this time, 1964...).

     Dimitrov

Another tie: Dimitrov-Brezhnev.
Fine !
But please vote...

That's really a testament to Khrushchev more than anything else. His system made political killings largely unfeasible.

Dimitrov; young Brezhnev wasn't worthless like his older version.

Leonid Brezhnev.

Did a lot worse than some minor figure.

Georgi Dimitrov
Yes, he played a positive role by standing up against the Nazis during his trial. But after that? He didn't help his co-defendants from the Leipzig trial when they became a victim of Stalin's paranoia. As head of the Comintern he did nothing but justify Stalin's bizarre foreign policy turns in grand words. Finally, when he returned to Bulgaria, a caricature of his former self, he might as well have been a robot, considering the way he implemented Stalin's will. His only streak of independence was ironically in the service of an even more anti-Bulgarian cause: the attempted annexation of Bulgaria to Tito's Yugoslavia and the forced Macedonization of part of Bulgaria's population. It's the last two that can't be forgiven and why he must go as soon as possible.

Dimitrov is out, after a tight race with Brezhnev.

ROUND FOURTEEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for Ramiz Alia.

Of course, in the end, he led Albania towards a "democratic" regime, but he first wanted to save his own *ss....
He was a loyal Hoxhist all around. He was so loyal that he didn't show too much behind him: a discrete evil....
He was a very lucky guy, as Hoxha died just after Gorbachev's rise to nr.1 post. He was able to appear as a modernizer, sort of....

Chernenko

Brezhnev × 100. Even if he didn't do anything, he doesn't deserve to stay on.

I've hesitated a bit between Alia, Honecker and... Chernenko.
Indeed, Chernenko was a dumb *ss, a stupid and brutal zero.

Leonid Brezhnev
He did more damage.

Brezhnev

Brezhnev

     Chernenko

Leonid Brezhnev

Egon Krenz

Little significance, crappy politician, leader at very end: why should he stay?

Because he didn't stop the East German popular movement ?

Because it's more difficult to weigh the (very tiny) part of good in him than in others ?

But it's fine to have "open" rounds like this one ;)

Egon Krenz was totally incompetent. He was more a parody about a communist/socialist leader. Fab you can say that he wasn't so worse, because he make no war against the opposition. The truth is that when he come in power East Germany was dead and he cannot reanimate a dead country. I'm not sure he had the power to send the military on the street. Would they break down the Civil Forum and the opposition. The implosion of SED was started and he comes only with the old speeches (like Honecker). Nobody wanted to hear it. This man had no control over East Germany. The only good thing was, this incompetence save many people the life.

Krenz because to remove all short-termers (the same reason for peoples like Chernenko) and focus then on biggies ;)

Leonid Brezhnev

Brezhnev is out, with a quite big majority.

ROUND FIFTEEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for Chernenko,
the most loyal Brezhnevian !

Chernenko

Chernenko.

Konstantin Chernenko

Chernenko

Out of reality, past-living, unintelligent man and a very short-termer. While Andropov was really smart, he was just a pathetic

Mmmm... some unanimity in here ?

     Chernenko

Chernenko

Erich Honecker

After the master (Brezhnev), the servant (Chernenko) is out.

ROUND SIXTEEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for the unrepentant Erich Honecker.

Georgy Malenkov

A**hole, who could not do anything when his master gone

     Honecker

Erich Honecker

I love that in June of 1989 he said the Berlin Wall would stand for at least a hundred more years.

Malenkov wasn't the worst of Stalin's circle, IMO.

Honecker

Erich Honecker

Honecker

Georgy Malenkov

Indeed !
Khrushchev, for example, was far worse before 1953...
But, after that, Malenkov wouldn't have been able, alone, to oust Beria and to launch a destalinization. I think he wasn't very sure of himself and eventually fell in the conservative side with irrelevant Molotov, Kaganovich, Bulganin et alii.

But, at this stage of our survivor, it's a fine choice against Honecker ;)

The East Germany old guardian is out.

ROUND SEVENTEEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for Ramiz Alia

as I've already said, he was a very, very loyal "hoxhist" and took part without any hesitating in the dictatorship.
He was just lucky that Hoxha died just after Gorbachev took power, making it possible for Alia to appear as an open guy, just by dropping the ugliest aspects of the regime, first, and by saving his *ss afterwards by slowly giving up power.

I should add that I expect a "competitive" round ;)

Egon Krenz

Not the worst man in the list, but a complet idiot and totally incompetent

Husak

Wladyslaw Gomulka

And please vote in Obama cabinet survivor and last round to the Brazilian presidential survivor as well (sorry for advertisment, Fab ;) )

     Malenkov

You're welcome !

BTW, we've got a 5-way tie in here !!!
I thought it would be competitive...
Alia - Krenz - Husak - Gomulka - Malenkov !

Ramiz Alia

Krenz was more pathetic than insidious, same with Alia. Malenkov, despite being from Stalin's inner circle, was the second most tolerable Sovet leader. So between Husak and Gomulka I'll go with Husak due to how he took office.

Ramiz Alia

What a round ! Hash has just broken our tie.
Alia is ousted with a very tiny plurality.

ROUND EIGHTEEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for Malenkov.

But I must ackonwledge Husak, Krenz and Ochab are tempting... (less Gomulka)
Another "hot" round ? :)

Malenkov

Gomulka

Edward Ochab
A complete non-entity

We are just in the middle of our Survivor. So, time for some statistics:

Biggest total of votes in the round when eliminated:
Stalin: 10
Chernenko: 7

Lowest total of votes in the round when eliminated:
Zhivkov, Ulbricht, Novotny, Alia: 3

Biggest vote in a round though not being eliminated:
Ceausescu: 4

Biggest total of votes up to elimination:
Bierut, Chervenkov: 12
Stalin, Ceausescu: 10

Biggest rate of votes when eliminated:
Stalin: 100%

Lowest rates of votes when eliminated:
Zhivkov, Alia: 37,5%
Gottwald: 44,4%
Ulbricht, Novotny: 50%

Eliminated without having received votes in previous rounds:
Stalin (no previous round), Hoxha, Gheorghiu-Dej, Ulbricht, Novotny, Dimitrov

Biggest delay between first vote and ousting:
Honecker: 9->16
Gomulka: 10->
Husak: 11->

Biggest turnout:
10 (first round)

Lowest turnout:
5 (seventh round)

Yes, but I have some respect for him after he resigned from the ceremonial office of formal head of state in 1968, protesting against Gomółka anti-semitic actions

     Malenkov

Malenkov is eliminated, but with a low turnout.
Come on guys, don't forget to come in this History board and to vote in this Survivor !

ROUND NINETEEN IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for Ochab.

A Polish round in sight, maybe ? Will Kalwejt finallt succeed in ousting Gomulka ?
Good luck, Kalwejt ! ;)

Everybody, come and vote in the Polish Communist Leaders Survivor !

Gomółka

Gomółka

Husak

Gomółka

     Gomółka

Khrushchev

You're a bad revisionist, Kalwejt ;)

This guy opposed drinking coffee. He believed that this is a demoralization for the nation

The result is clear, but not the name ;)
Gomoeuwka is out :D

ROUND TWENTY IS OPEN
Vote away !
(remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for Wilhelm Pieck

Ulbricht wasn't the only one to build DDR...
If Grotewohl may be judged more smoothly, Pieck was loyal to Stalin (see his period in the Komintern at a time where Stalin behave not very, *ahem*, smoothly).

What's the difference? They sound exactly the same.

Egon Krenz

Wilhelm Pieck was a old style communist and i think he believe in all what he did. Egon Krenz was only a joke. In the 40ies and 50ies it was good to be a Stalinist, when you don't want to die this was important and this speaks against Pieck, but Krenz see that the communist system, Moscow style, don't work and what he did. He sends congratulations to Chinese Government that they kill all at the Tiananmen Square.

But being in Moscow during the great purges and being at the head of the Komintern in the 1930s-1940s doesn't speak well for him.
And he remained president until 1960 (with the 1953 Berlin uprising crushed), even though Ulbricht was the one in charge.

Therefor I prefer to eliminate those who were in charge and bad, like Pieck, than those who were no more in charge even if they were stupid and bad, like Krenz.

fab, you are right, but for me is a man who believe what he did and doesn't do extrem evil things not so bad, like a incompetent Apparatchik (i don't know i write it correct ;)) who fight for a idea with no future. By the way, Pieck hasn't the power in East Germany. The strong man was Ulbricht. He was only the symbol of the past (of the old KPD)

But you did write it correctly!

Yes, sound exactly the same in Polish, it's only writing

Anyway I'm glad this asshole is out ;D

Vote Gustav Husak

Egon Krenz
I agree with Hans-im-Glück

It's common in Polish to mark the same sound with more than one letter. I know Kalwejt will not like this, but most Polish orthographic problems can be solved if they switch to Cyrillic ;)

Wilhelm Pieck

He truly was evil. Krenz may have been as well, but he was more pathetic than evil.

Вўадысўав Гомуўка?

A Hussite Latin alphabet would work well (Vwadyswav Gomuwka), and I'm not sure Cyrillic has enough diacritics.

     Pieck

Krenz

Yay, a tie !
But it will be hard to break many of our usual voters have already posted and since Xahar, who hasn't yet voted (shame on him ! ;)), may vote for Husak (or not...).

Some fighting rounds before we enter the "good" guys period...

Wilhelm Pieck

Pieck has eventually prevailed over Krenz.

ROUND TWENTY-ONE IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for Gustav Husak

(sorry, Hans-im-Glück, Krenz will be my next vote, if he's still here in next round ;))

Gustáv Husák

Gustav Husak

One more time ;)

Egon Krenz

But i must say Husak is a good decision too.

Ugh, meant to vote Husák. Will do that this round.

Husak

     Husak

Ok, Husak

Egon Krenz

Husak is out with a clear majority. He is one of our biggest vote-getters.

ROUND TWENTY-TWO IS OPEN
Vote away !
(list of remaining leaders and results in opening post)

I vote for Egon Krenz

Nikita Khrushchev

Yep, an interesting vote, as Mr K was one of some important and "hard" Stalinists who implemented repressions of all sorts.

Did he have a specific and personal action in "destalinization" ?
Or would others have been able to do the same: Beria, of course; but maybe also Malenkov (but he was weak) or Zhukov (but he wasn't at the heart of power in 1953) ?
(Voroshilov was too much "stalinized" and Bulganin wasn't clever enough)

Egon Krenz

Krenz

Krenz

Nikita Khrushchev

Time to kill Egon Krenz

     Krenz

With Krenz -our new biggest vote-getter- gone, East Germany joins Bulgaria and Albania as country with no more leader in the game.

ROUND TWENTY-THREE IS OPEN

I vote for Ochab.

Kadar

Of course, this will end as Dubček v. Nagy.

I'm not going to vote for Ochab. Guy acted pretty resonably during a transition from Stalinism and resigned in protest of March 1968 anti-semitic actions.

Milos Jakes, another brief leader

     Jakes

I've hesitated with Jakes... He wasn't credible...

Kadar wasn't (relatively) bad. He was probably the best leader Hungary could've had during that time. Hungary had the most mild regime of the Eastern Bloc, no large secret police force, and was probably more free than some NATO and Western European countries (Spain, Portugal under the mid-70s and Greece under the military regime.)

I vote Khrushchev again.

I vote for Milos Jakes

All other finals would be very big surprises

The hypocritical, mediocre and, in fact, conservative Jakes (his so-called "gorbachevism" was only opportunism) is out, but in a low turnout.

Come on guys, vote, vote, vote, even during Atlasia's election days!

ROUND TWENTY-FOUR IS OPEN

We have now some two-face leaders, some ambiguous ones and some quite good ones.
Hard to choose, really.
It should be good to get rid of Ochab, a small one and an orthodox (even if he wasn't the worst).

But, this round, I vote for Gheorghe Apostol.

All those so-called "reformist" Rumanians were fake. They were reformists when they saw the end coming closer and closer... He was, first, a big leader in the 1950s-1960s and not a smooth one.

Wojciech Jaruzelski (Mr. Martial law)

Actually post 1956 Poland was closer with martial law exceptions

Kadar

Jaruzelski was the first to launch real negotiations with an organized opposition. He was probably a clever guy. It seems as though he didn't do it on Andropov's and Gorbachev's order, but on its own.
It seems as if the martial law was a way to avoid a Soviet military intervention.

But at the same time, he may have tried to (*ahem*) polish his own image: he lost partially his vision because of the Siberian snow, during captivity there; he was a saviour, sort of; all these may have been pure rewritings of history...
And, well Solidarnosc and the Catholic Church were so strong that nobody could have ignored them.
And in 1981, even if an ailing Brezhnev and, more than him Suslov, Gromyko, Ustinov and even Andropov were very angry at Poland, how could they have intervened with the Afghan war, a stretched economy and a restful Soviet population after some very bad harvests.

Jaruzelski, like Kadar and Andropov, was a typical ambiguous guy.

Kadar betrayed Nagy, but said he had to do this just to "save" Hungary from an even worse fate. Are we so sure ? And Hungary had a mild regime, sort of, but, what is more, a mediocre regime with a sort of "political correctness" that didn't favored strong and smart oppositions as in Poland and Czechoslovakia.

Therefore I think Apostol deserves to go first ;): at least, Kadar and Jaruzelski have done something positive, even after very bad things.
Apostol hasn't done anything: he tried, with Iliescu, Brucan, Voican, Manescu, to take advantage from Ceausescu's fall of power and to rewrite history by making these guys "real" opposition !

Gheorghe Apostol

Statistics updated, including round 23:

Biggest total of votes in the round when eliminated:
Stalin: 10
Chernenko, Husak: 7

Lowest total of votes in the round when eliminated:
Zhivkov, Ulbricht, Novotny, Alia, Malenkov, Jakes: 3

Biggest vote in a round though not being eliminated:
Ceausescu: 4

Biggest total of votes up to elimination:
Krenz: 13
Bierut, Chervenkov, Husak: 12
Stalin, Ceausescu: 10

Biggest rate of votes when eliminated:
Stalin: 100%

Lowest rates of votes when eliminated:
Zhivkov, Alia: 37,5%
Gottwald: 44,4%
Ulbricht, Novotny, Malenkov, Pieck, Jakes: 50%

Eliminated without having received votes in previous rounds:
Stalin (no previous round), Hoxha, Gheorghiu-Dej, Ulbricht, Novotny, Dimitrov, Pieck, Jakes

Biggest delay between first vote and ousting:
Husak: 11->21
Gomulka: 10->19
Krenz: 14->22
Honecker: 9->16

Biggest turnout:
10 (first round)

Lowest turnout:
5 (seventh round)

Gheorghe Apostol

You know, following two years of PiS rule I'm, as a large part of Polish population, rather alergic on using historical contests in politics, and Jaruzelski was one of such "issues".

For a generation of my parents in 1980s Jaruzelski was a personification of evil and dictatorship following declaration of martial law, but today, from perspective, many of them, former Solidarity members like my parents, who fought with communism and are glad from victory, actually shares the views that he did so to prevent worse scenario.

And, as Big Bad Fab mentioned here, Jaruzelski was the first to launch real negotiations with an organized opposition. We shall not forgot that.

Very complicated and tragic person anyway. Comparing him to many others fellow in this list is really unfair.

     Apostol

Gheorge Apostol
Complete non entity

Apostol has been swiftly eliminated and Romania joins Bulgaria, Albania and East Germany among the countries with no more leader surviving.

Some fine discussions too.

ROUND TWENTY-FIVE IS OPEN

I vote for Ochab.

Again, an orthodox one, even if he disagreed with anti-semitic campaigns (his wife was a Jew).
And, as GMantis would say, rather a non-entity.
It would be fine to get rid of him before ousting the ambiguous, double-face and quite good leaders.

All right, all right, Ochab, because he was very brief leader

Interstingly, many Poles can't say who was Frist Secretary between Bierut and Gomułka

     Ochab

Ochab

Edward Ochab

Ochab

Nikita Khrushchev

Ochab landslide is cooming ;)

Ochab (small) landslide indeed.

ROUND TWENTY-SIX IS OPEN

I vote for Gierek.

Many "promises", few successes. Unable to face unrest, unable to dare to speak with the opposition, unlike Kania or Jaruzelski.

He was in fact a little Brezhnev (remember, in 1960-1964 and just after K's ousting, Brezhnev was a young, smiling, dynamic and peaceful leader: many in the East and the West were happy to see him ousting the rebel and unforeseeable K, especially after Cuba). BTW, he was Brezhnev's man in Poland.

Even more, he may have been a little Kosygin: young technocrat promising reforms but implementing few things and succeeding in even fewer; and Kosygin was first promoted during the last years of Stalin's era, just like Gierek climbed the hierarchy during Bierut and then Gomulka years, without any problem.

I'm not saying he was evil, but we are now at a point where we begin eliminating not entirely evil men.
I must acknowledge it's difficult for me to vote "for" Khrushchev yet... Even though I don't like him and he was a pure Stalinist, he did very courageous things. But would have Béria been more efficient ?

     Gierek

Wojciech Jaruzelski

He fight for a dead regime. Gierek is a small Brezhnev, a bad man, but not extreme. Khrushchev with the Cuba-crisis he create a atomic war, but he was better like the alternatives as successor of Stalin and for a Soviet leader amusing ;)

Gorbachev should be removed soon, but he's probably too popular, so Edward Gierek for now.
Oh, and this is my 3000th post :)

Khrushchev

Wojciech Jaruzelski

Gierek. I'm still paying as my countrymen his debts. He was a failure. Jaruzelski at least acheived something.

Gierek

That's a fine characteristic. Also, Gierek "succeesed" were not only short-lived, but also very costly for generations. And if we add we was unable to reach beyond the party. I getting mad when I hear sometimed "we were so good under Gierek".

Another Polish leader down.

ROUND TWENTY-SEVEN IS OPEN

I vote for Kadar

He betrayed Nagy. He was a mediocre guy after all. I think he has bought his image and the Hungarian people's quietness.
His mediocre system (I don't bother you, so don't bother the party) has resulted in a weak opposition.
Of course, we can say that it was better to live in Hungary in the 1970s-1980s than in East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria or Romania.
And we can say that the Nemeth, Pozsgay, Grosz et alii emerged inside the party, under Kadar's rule.
But I remain convinced that in 1956, something would have been possible in Hungary, more than in Czechoslovakia, 1968.

And we have to pick someone after all... ;)

Khrushchev

Come on guys...

     Khrushchev

Wojciech Jaruzelski

About him i can't say something good, Kadar have made some positive things (not many, but a few)

Stanislaw Kania
He didn't manage to do almost anything

Wojciech Jaruzelski

Stanislaw Kania

Better and wiser than Gierek, but still another brief mediocre

Fine...
Kania 2, Khrushchev 2, Jaruzelski 2, Kadar 1... That's what I call a suspense. I have no preference: I'm happy to lose this one, as Kania and K are probably better choices than Kadar, but it was too difficult for me to oust them ;)

Waiting for Xahar and Edu...
Maybe a four-way tie first and then a final surprise !

Khrushchev

Kania

Kania, to break the tie.

Still in our Polish series, with Kania out after a suspenseful round. Thanks to you all.

ROUND TWENTY-EIGHT IS OPEN

I vote for Kadar.

     Khrushchev

Wojciech Jaruzelski

Wojciech Jaruzelski

Jaruzelski

Kadar

Khrushchev

For all those Jaruzelski was least bad

OMG, all Polish leaders are out in an astounding series... Jaruzelski is the last one.
Even if I've changed my vote in Khrushchev, there would have been a tie.
I've waited a bit more for GMantis and BRTD but we need to open the next round.

ROUND TWENTY-NINE IS OPEN

I vote for... Khrushchev
(voting Kadar while wishing that Mr. K is eliminated is a bit silly...)

Also, can we have a little debate: why is Andropov is still here and with absolutely NO vote until now, what is more ?

As for me, I know why, but it's for bad reasons: tough and mysterious guy, the "last chance" man, in power when I was 12 years old and fast becoming a lil' (bad) kremlinologist, my first subscription of Le Monde paper with, on frontpage, "La mort de M. Iouri Andropov" (underlined and thick),... Nostalgia...

But, well Andropov, even if he wasn't Ordzhonikidze, Iezhov, Beria, Shelepin and even if he opposed a military intervention in Poland in 1980-81,
was president of the KGB.
He wasn't at all opposed to interventions in Czechoslovakia (68) and in Afghanistan (79).
He took a big part in crushing Budapest 56.
In the autumn of 1983, the destruction of the Korean Boeing was very frightening.
He was very tough on the missile crisis in Europe.
His aim was more to be efficient, not liberal or democratic: that's why he didn't want to waste troops and finances in Poland.

Please, do not change your vote, but just discuss.

Khrushchev

Michail Gorbachev. It's time to get rid of him. He bears most of the responsibility for all the disasters which befell the Soviet Union after his blunders caused its collapse.
Andropov was trying to reform the Soviet Union, but in a way that wouldn't necessarily have led to its collapse. It was rather unfortunate he died so soon.

Khrushchev

Nikita Khrushchev

Khrushchev

Kadar

I like Khrushchev. :(

     Khrushchev

I'm dissapointed Jaruzelski has been eliminated. After all he actually played a huge role in ending of communism and was the first to talk and deal with opposition.

And so, ironically, he accomplished more good than Nagy or Dubcek, who failed.

A big one is out, Nikita Khrushchev, with a clear majority.

ROUND THIRTY IS OPEN
Vote away !
List of remaining leaders and results in opening post

I vote for Kadar.

He betrayed Nagy, he was hypocritical, he let Hungary a bit quieter than in other countries but without really much liberalization and with very bad economic results, he grew more and more Brezhnevian in his style and behaviour.
A mediocre leader.

Janos Kadar

Statistics updated, including round 29:

Biggest total of votes in the round when eliminated:
Stalin: 10
Chernenko, Husak: 7

Lowest total of votes in the round when eliminated:
Zhivkov, Ulbricht, Novotny, Alia, Malenkov, Jakes, Jaruzelski: 3

Biggest number of rounds without any vote:
Nagy, Grosz, Dubcek, Andropov: 29 (and on)
Gorbachev 28
Kania: 26

Biggest vote in a round though not being eliminated:
Ceausescu: 4

Biggest total of votes up to elimination:
Khrushchev: 17
Krenz: 13
Bierut, Chervenkov, Husak: 12
Stalin, Ceausescu: 10

Biggest rates of votes when eliminated:
Stalin: 100%
Ochab: 85,7%
Chernenko: 83,3%
Bierut: 80%
Husak: 77,8%
Ceausescu, Gerö, Honecker, Krenz, Khrushchev: 75%

Lowest rates of votes when eliminated:
Zhivkov, Alia: 37,5%
Kania 40%
Jaruzelski 42,9%
Gottwald: 44,4%
Ulbricht, Novotny, Malenkov, Pieck, Jakes: 50%

Eliminated without having received votes in previous rounds:
Stalin (no previous round), Hoxha, Gheorghiu-Dej, Ulbricht, Novotny, Dimitrov, Pieck, Jakes, Apostol, Gierek, Kania

Biggest delay between first vote and ousting:
Husak: 11->21, Khrushchev 19->29
Gomulka: 10->19
Krenz: 14->22
Honecker: 9->16, Ochab 18->25

Biggest turnout:
10 (rounds one and twenty-seven)

Lowest turnout:
5 (round seven)

Kadar

Yuri Andropov

Kadar

Mikhail Gorbachev

     Yuri Andropov

:(

Kadar

Kadar is out.

ROUND THIRTY-ONE IS OPEN
Vote away !
Remaining leaders and results in opening post

I vote for Andropov...

Well, he was fascinating (and made all he can through many... "friends" in the West to be so).
But was he more than a clever and clean Putin ?
Note that being Putin with cleverness and without corruption, it's a lot !
And had he lived and succeeded at least a bit (he couldn't have saved the USSR, though, which was too broken at the time), I don't know if Western people would have been so happy...

Yuri Andropov

Yuri Andropov

Michail Gorbachev
I'm not certain that Andropov could not save the USSR. Of course, it probably couldn't be saved in the way Gorbachev wanted to save it, but a more authoritarian system could be perhaps be successful. Perhaps it would be better for most Soviet Union citizens in the long term.

Andropov

Andropov

Switching immediately to a Putinesque regime, sort of ?
OK, my comparison isn't very good, as I'm not sure Andropov was a Russian nationalist.

Brezhnev should have been ousted in1974-75... Then, it may have been saved.

BTW, GMantis, have you been to International What-Ifs, there's a very good idea by Kalwejt with a topic on alternate Soviet leaders ;)

More like something of the Chinese model, though perhaps it was too late by then for that.
The latest time that something like Gorbachev's system have worked would be most likely the 70's. They should have let the Prague Spring continue and use it as a model. Then again this would require far more rationality about their Warsaw Pact allies than the Brezhnev and his allies had.

     Yuri Andropov

When asked the difference between the Prague Spring reforms and his, Gorbachev responded "19 years".

One of the early initial signs the Soviet Union was done was shortly after Gorbachev took office, he appointed an ethnic Russian to head Kazakhstan. Mass protests broke out in the Kazakh capital. Gorbachev couldn't give the orders to fire and massacre them, so instead he relented, withdrew the appointment and replaced him with an ethnic Kazakh. That's hardly a negative development and if it required massacres to keep the Soviet Union...

Kazakhstan, along with most Soviet republics, overwhelmingly supported the continuation of the Soviet Union in a referendum in 1991: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Union_Treaty What they wanted was more self rule, not the collapse of the Union, which today is regretted everwhere except the Baltic Republics. Not surprising, considering the consequences.
In any case, the protests were another sign how stupid Gorbachev was. The practice in the Soviet Union was that the first secretary of the local Communist party always was from the "titular nationality". Changing this all of sudden clearly shows that he didn't understand at all what he was doing.
Gorbachev should have first carried out economic reforms and only then political ones. Because he did it the other way round, he lost support to carry out the reforms that were needed and most importantly, nationalism became too strong, which led to the decline of his powers.

Andropov is clearly out and I'm a bit sad...

ROUND THIRTY-TWO IS OPEN

I vote for.... Dubcek !

I want some fight for the end...
And Dubcek was a disappointing one. He agreed on a defeat and on remaining for one year with a "normalized" regime. He was a fine guy and a peaceful one, sure. But maybe too kind and without enough guts to make history.
And I think 1968 was FAR MORE favorable than 1956 to try something really courageous (out of the Warsaw Pact, e.g.).
During 1989, he showed he hasn't understood at all what was at stake...
As for me, another one in the list is the "real" survivor...

I expect some shoutings over my vote, but, well, it's a game !

Karoly Grosz

     Alexander Dubcek

Karoly Grosz

Karoly Grosz

This is a tactical vote. Normally I want to vote for Gorbachev, but Alexander Dubček is a hero and i don't want that he eliminate now.

Károly Grósz

It's ridiculous to vote for Dubcek at this stage.
Karoly Grosz

Grósz

Unsurprisingly, Grosz is out.
Don't regret it, after all, Gorbachev is a great man by his influence, whatever the opinion -positive or negative- you have on him.

ROUND THIRTY-THREE IS OPEN
Vote away !

I vote again for Dubcek.

Gorbachev was so fascinating when you were politically conscious between 1983 (he began to be prominent under Andropov) and 1991.
I remember that, each time, he was the most moderate of the Politburo, even with the so-called "reformists" he promoted, who became conservatives one or two years later because changes were faster than them: Vitalyi Vorotnikov, Lev Zaikov, Vadim Medvedev, Nikonov, Talyzin, Razumovski, Kriuchkov, Pugo and his dark friend Anatolyi Lukyanov.
Even Aleksandr Yakovlev wasn't more moderate than him: just like him, just regretting a bit more efficiency in (failed) reforms.

The only one who was a bit different: Eltsin. And he was the only one promoted by Gorbachev who later fell. He didn't forgive Gorbachev to have let him down against the Moscow regional apparatus.

And well, when you've lived under the freezing of East-West relations between 1978 and 1984 (missiles in Europe, Afghanistan, South Korean Boeing, Grenada, Iran, Somalia-Ethiopia, Nicaragua, etc), it was fine to see a Soviet leader never resorting to violence, even if in home matters, sometimes, some apparatchiki provoked repression (the first "red fascist" inside the army, like Alksnis, having crushed some demonstrations in Lithuania; or the Bakou uprising in 1990).

That's why I can't vote for Gorbachev. I know he will be out this round anyways.
Won't he ? ;)

Actually, since Jaruzelki is unjustly go (thanks, Hash >:( ) I'd like to see Gorbachec prevailing over Kadar of Dubcek

So, Dubcek!

Mikhail Gorbachev

Mikhail Gorbachev

So we're down to the only three who did any good. Of which Gorbachev did the most good, but also didn't plan as much or plan as well.

So I'll say Gorbachev.

Michail Gorbachev
The very fact that the reformers became "conservatives" shows how brainless his reforms were.
Whatever the merits of Dubcek and Nagy, at they're not indirectly responsible for over ten civil wars.

Mikhail Gorbachev

Gorbachev

     Alexander Dubcek

All the Grosz voters gathered around Gorbachev... who is out :(

FINAL ROUND !

Without any surprise: Dubcek against Nagy !

Vote away ! As usual, vote for the leader you want to eliminate.

Statistics updated, including round 33:

Biggest total of votes in the round when eliminated:
Stalin: 10
Chernenko, Husak: 7

Lowest total of votes in the round when eliminated:
Zhivkov, Ulbricht, Novotny, Alia, Malenkov, Jakes, Jaruzelski: 3

Biggest number of rounds without any vote:
Nagy: 33
Grosz, Dubcek: 31
Andropov: 29
Gorbachev 28
Kania: 26

Biggest vote in a round though not being eliminated:
Ceausescu: 4

Biggest total of votes up to elimination:
Khrushchev: 17
Krenz: 13
Bierut, Chervenkov, Husak: 12
Kadar: 11
Stalin, Ceausescu: 10

Biggest rates of votes when eliminated:
Stalin: 100%
Ochab, Andropov: 85,7%
Chernenko: 83,3%
Bierut: 80%
Husak: 77,8%
Ceausescu, Gerö, Honecker, Krenz, Khrushchev: 75%

Lowest rates of votes when eliminated:
Zhivkov, Alia: 37,5%
Kania 40%
Jaruzelski 42,9%
Gottwald: 44,4%
Ulbricht, Novotny, Malenkov, Pieck, Jakes: 50%

Eliminated without having received votes in previous rounds:
Stalin (no previous round), Hoxha, Gheorghiu-Dej, Ulbricht, Novotny, Dimitrov, Pieck, Jakes, Apostol, Gierek, Kania, Grosz

Biggest delay between first vote and ousting:
Husak: 11->21, Khrushchev 19->29
Gomulka: 10->19
Krenz: 14->22
Honecker: 9->16, Ochab 18->25, Kadar 23->30

Biggest turnout:
10 (rounds one and twenty-seven)

Lowest turnout:
5 (round seven)

Eliminate: Dubcek

I really want Imre Nagy to win:
he lost his life,
he tried to pull out of the Warsaw Pact,
it was far more difficult to cut links with Moscow in 1956 than in 1968,
he was courageous all along, until the end.

Imre Nagy, the Survivor !

BTW, it was a very fine and interesting survivor, thanks to all of you, to your regular votes and to smooth, respectful and clever debates.
I enjoyed it.

Expected, but biased final 2. Gorbachev and Jaruzelski already did something positive, and those tow were a failures

Dubcek, bigger failure to go

NAGY FOR SURVIVOR!

Dubček

:)

Eliminate: Dubcek

Nagy

Alexander Dubček is my Survivor. Nagy was very good too, but in Prag they want to create somethig new.

Dubcek

     Alexander Dubcek.

Nagy

Dubcek was a better fighter.

Bump.

Currently, Nagy is the Survivor (6-2).
But you still can vote !
Come on, guys !
It's the final !

Alexander Dubcek
Of course, Nagy was a hero, but Dubcek avoided the fate of Hungary in 1956. And with his non-violent resistance did much for the undermining of communism.

GMantis, you have to vote for the leader you want to ELIMINATE.

Am I right if I understand you want Ducek to win ?

Sorry. Yes, I want him to win and I vote for Imre Nagy.

OK, guys, all our regular voters have cast their votes and this final has lasted more than 24 hours, so...
it's over !

Dubcek was a brilliant fighter, he had good friends, but....
()

sometimes he lost, especially with some "fatal kisses":
()

So, hail for our Survivor, Imre Nagy:
()

And it's fair that our Survivor is the one who lost his life for having tried to do some little things for his people:
()

Thanks to you all for your regular votes, for our interesting debates, for some suspense (not in our final, but in the order in which our leaders were ousted).

I think homogeneous survivors, with all people from the same "category", from the same ideology especially, are better, because there is less partisan hacking or parochialism.
And survivors from the past.
That's why Kalwejt's Stalin inner circle is a very good idea (I hate you ! ;D)...

And don't forget to vote in my 20th century history makers survivor !
And try also Hashemite's 20th century French heads of the executive survivor...