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September 16, 2014, 06:25:21 am
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News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

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1  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Scottish independence - The Official Atlas Forum mock referendum on: September 15, 2014, 10:10:09 pm
no of course not

and if they do vote yes, then the queen should raise the peasant levies and send prince charles north with a grand army to quash the would-be rebels

Ban finger bowls!
2  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Americans: if your state... on: September 15, 2014, 10:07:57 pm
No one except for a handful of people would support the movement, so no.
3  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: Is Andrew Cuomo to the right of the average New York voter? on: September 15, 2014, 10:04:08 pm
BRTD's question is, of course, unanswerable, because it assumes that Andrew Cuomo has actual political convictions.

Or that the "average New York voter" does, either.
4  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Post Dissolution Elections: February 2013 on: September 15, 2014, 09:53:19 pm
I vote for me.
5  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Most iconic avatar in Atlas history? on: September 15, 2014, 08:53:59 pm
6  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: All Atlasia Progressive Rashtriya Janata Dal (Cultural Marxist) on: September 15, 2014, 08:50:50 pm
Discrimination is a terrible evil. Therefore AAPRJD(CM) proposes that 80% of cabinet posts at a regional level and 70% at a national level should go to posters from backwards classes (backwards being defined as having a low registration number: i.e. the longer you have been registered on Atlas Forum the more 'backwards' you are).

7  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Pacific Council:ROLC.(Final Vote.). on: September 15, 2014, 08:48:29 pm
This passes, 2-0, with one abstention.
8  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: A fun fact about billionaires. on: September 15, 2014, 05:55:47 pm
And this?

Well, someone should at least attempt to assess the costs of such legislation, rather than all of you just paddling around in circles asking, "how much will it cost?".

The last unemployment report put the rate at 8.9%. The target is 3%. We'll assume that to get to a (BLS-style?) rate of unemployment, half of the measured percentage-point difference (being working-age, willing and able-bodied people) would need to be hired. If we roughly assume a country with 315,000,000 people, then such a program would need to hire approximately 9,000,000 people (5.9% / 2 = 2.95; 2.95 * 3,150,000).

So a minimum wage job at $10.50/hour - excluding any sort of benefits or additional costs - would come to around $3.9 billion per week, or $203 billion per year.
9  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Atlasia Public Officials Temperature Survey on: September 15, 2014, 04:47:51 pm
Outofbox6 is not a member of the Legislative Council.
10  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What type of climate do you live in? on: September 15, 2014, 08:59:19 am
I knew it! South Jersey is practically the South.
11  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Pacific Council:ROLC.(Final Vote.). on: September 15, 2014, 08:40:15 am

Please cease and desist. 
12  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections / Re: Cuomo v. Teachout on: September 14, 2014, 10:40:53 pm
Who cares? Let him do what he wants. Insisting thst people be attracted to people of other races or be deemed racist is absurd. He's not saying it should be banned. Christ, whatever happened to "live and let live"?

Next thing you know you'll be calling us transphobic because we don't want to date men who have had gender reassignment surgery.
13  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Forty years. on: September 14, 2014, 04:24:34 pm
Good points Simfan, but wouldn't you say that most of Menelik's conquests were basically bad for Ethiopia, making the country harder to keep together and nation building tougher to accomplish?

Had the country not been taken over by ethnically-obsessed left wing student radicals, this would not have been a problem. Development, education, and communication would have helped forge a nation the same way they did in, say France. Like I mentioned, towns, particularly in the south, were almost as a rule "Amhara"; it makes sense to conclude assimilation would follow with urbanisation or through formal education. Haile Selassie did not fall because of ethnic strife, although certain elements of his nation-building strategy, of which I am not an expert, were admittedly too narrow- marginalising the figure of the Tigrayan hero of Adwa, Ras Alula Engida. A broad based nationalism, stressing the roles played by diverse figures such as Ras Gobena Dacche, Ras Balcha Safo, Ras Mengesha Yohannes, and so forth, is the way forward.

Indeed I'd suggest many of the "Oromos" were assimilated by southern invaders into that culture, and their adoption of "Ethiopian" customs could have been presented as "reclaiming" their identity- they likely spoke semitic languages such as Harari, Silte, Zway, or Gurage that survive as linguistic exclaves. One could even be quite innovative and present the Ethio-Semitic languages (sans Tigrinya) as a singular "Ethiopian Language" and the Amharic spoken in Addis Ababa merely as "Modern Standard Ethiopian" or something like that. Thus they would "speak Ethiopian, like their ancestors".
14  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Forty years. on: September 14, 2014, 03:49:32 pm
This map (unfortunately in Russian) shows the overlap between the old shaded provinces and the outlined modern regions:

As you can see every province, sans Arsi, is multiethnic. This is not by chance, as this next map of the provinces before 1936 shows, a great many smaller provinces were merged to form heterogeneous provinces:

And a note on Menelik's conquests: they are often presented as a take-over of vast regions that had never been under Ethiopian control, whether in Fascist propaganda, the pseudo-historiography of proponents of the terrorist Italian colonial entity, or even misguided historians

(There was an Fascist propaganda piece that literally presented the same case)

But this is not actually the case:

15  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Forty years. on: September 14, 2014, 03:20:45 pm
Yes, their common nickname of "Woyane" alludes to the insurrectionists of 1942-3 in Enderta (now part of Tigray) that were known by the same name.

You must keep in mind a few things. The old guard of the TPLF (Meles, Sebhat Nega, Seyoum Mesfin, Siye Abraha, etc.) were almost uniformly university students who fled to the hills after 1975 to fight the regime. They, like most of their peers, besides being entitled ingrates (Meles, in fact, had received a scholarship from the Haile Selassie I Prize Trust), were Marxist-Leninists of one sort or another. Indeed, their early semi-vanguard party, the Marxist–Leninist League of Tigray, was an overtly Hoxhaist outfit. They patterned themselves after the EPLF as left wing secessionists- their goal was an independent Tigray. Why they dropped that goal is not entirely clear, I'd hazard that they realised they could enrich themselves more by controlling a whole country rather than a small province.

In contrast keep in mind that the Derg was, at its core, non ideological. This seems surprising considering we all known Mengistu as a "Communist despot", but the Derg simply appropriated the "scientific socialism" popular amongst the students a good deal after the fact (the monarchy persisted, without Haile Selassie, until 1975), when it became apparent that the US would not back the new regime. Of course, they killed the students anyway. So come 1990, with the Soviets faltering, Mengistu renounces communism, the already impotent "Workers' Party" declares its support for market liberalism, and so forth. The effect of this that the Derg comes across less as some sort of revolutionary movement rather than just a faction of the ruling group... your "Amharas".

So, in the eyes of some, both Mengistu and Haile Selassie were simply two "Amhara chauvinists" focused on oppressing minorities and centralising authority. This is a view appreciated by the ruling regime because 1) it allows themselves to present their regime as an inclusive regime in marked contrast with the past and 2) it creates tension between the "Amharas", ever eager to take control of their country once again, and other groups, namely the Oromo, that can be exploited to preserve the dominance of the Tigrayan elite. This "divide and conquer" strategy is also mirrored in the "ethnic federalist" arrangement and the idea Ethiopia is a state composed of separate and discrete "nations, nationalities, and peoples". The idea that Amharas constituted an actual ethnic group is a rather novel one, dating perhaps no earlier than the 1970s, and it's not one that has truly entered popular conception. The idea that the Oromos were a single group, as opposed to a number of related ones, is as well fairly new.

Of course all this ethnic fragmentation has had its consequences. A proposal to expand Addis Ababa's (an "Amhara" city, as the majority are, almost by definition, which surrounded by the Oromo Region) territorial boundaries sparked a number of violent protests in the Oromo Region. The government claimed that the cause of the riots was not their plan, but in fact the statue of Menelik II in Addis Ababa. This followed a Twitter campaign against Heineken's sponsoring of a tour by a popular singer, Teddy Afro, whose most recent big hit was a song ("Tikur Sew", or "Black Man") praising Menelik and his (ethnically diverse) generals for the victory at Adwa. Some Oromos (mainly living abroad, a point missed by many) were offended by this, as Teddy Afro had (supposedly) remarked in an interview that he considered Menelik's campaign to re-conquer the southern (and mainly Oromo) parts of the country a "holy war". The government seemed more than happy to have this whole charade play out, and was eager to shift the blame onto the long-dead Menelik and Teddy Afro (who had been jailed on blatantly trumped-up charges a few years prior, having had a reputation for criticising the government). Last year a monument was even built in the town of Ankole to commemorate the "victims" of Menelik's brutality.

Of course, this is all nonsensical, not to mention hardly conducive to stability and development. A great many Ethiopians are ethnically mixed, and the idea of being able to divide the country neatly on "ethnic" lines is a fools errand (there is an Oromia Zone in the Amhara Region!). Perhaps this why the government has mooted the idea of making a good many of the country's major cities "chartered cities" akin to Dire Dawa and Addis Ababa. To me it seems like a way of weakening the power of the regions by taking away their biggest cities and their capitals, which in Bahir Dar, for example, they've just put a lot of money into. It is a tacit admission their experiment has failed.

This all goes back to Haile Selassie- they feel somewhat lacklustre in terms of stature (there was a flap as to why no statue of him was erected at the AU when one of Nkrumah was, and a conference about his contribution to the AU last year wound up mysteriously cancelled) but for the most part he is dead and not a threat. The country is so young hardly anyone remembers the "old days". The claimants- quite extant- are virtual unknowns. It is not a positive opinion but there is no active demonisation.
16  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: BREAKING: American forces bomb ISIS targets in Iraq on: September 14, 2014, 02:15:51 pm
Turkey refuses to host U.S. anti-ISIS forces
Turkey will refuse to allow a U.S.-led coalition to attack jihadists in neighboring Iraq and Syria from its air bases, nor will it take part in combat operations against militants, a government official told AFP Thursday.

“Turkey will not be involved in any armed operation but will entirely concentrate on humanitarian operations,” the official said on condition of anonymity.


Turkey now sees itself a victim of ISIS with Islamist militants holding 49 Turks hostage, including diplomats and children, abducted from the Turkish consulate in Mosul in Iraq on June 11.

Ankara is therefore reluctant to take a stronger role in the coalition against ISIS militants in apparent fear of aggravating the hostage situation.

“Our hands and arms are tied because of the hostages,” the official told AFP.

Also, a recent survey conducted by Metropoll found that only 62.5% of AKP supporters consider Isis a terrorist organization.

Damn them. Everyone knows good and well this isn't really about about the hostages. I mean c'mon what do they take us for? And they won't even let us use our base in Airbase in Incirlik to conduct operations. Ingrates.

We should get with Britain/France/et al and threaten to expel Turkey from NATO unless they cooperate with us on this.

They can either be a Western country or they can be a neo-Ottoman Islamist-appeasing pseudo-empire. They need to choose one or the other.

Expelling them isn't likely to make the former more probable. If we want Turkey to bend to the will of the West as opposed to doing its own thing, we'd need to re-inspire some "postmodernism" in the remainder of the Turkish General Staff that has not yet been purged.
17  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: A fun fact about billionaires. on: September 14, 2014, 02:11:13 pm
Consider the ongoing debate over the proposed repeal of New York's scaffold law, for instance.

I haven't read past this, but this is going on? I'm inclined to say good riddance to the ugly things and the make-work union justification for them, but they're godsends when it rains...
18  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Update XVII: This is not the Update thread on: September 14, 2014, 08:40:25 am
This thread is Martin V.
19  General Politics / International General Discussion / Re: Forty years. on: September 13, 2014, 08:00:33 pm
TPLF was rather dependent on the EPLF. It wasn't really a choice. There were several opportunities for an agreement on decentralisation or federalism that would have allowed Eritrea to remain part of Ethiopia- all of which the TPLF rejected out of hand. Having the EPLF as a force in a united Ethiopia would not allowed the TPLF to enjoy the free reign over the country it did after separation.

Even during the war, Meles resisted calls to press towards Assab, Asmara, and generally take over the country.
20  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Perhaps the most out-of-touch video ever on: September 13, 2014, 07:44:03 pm
Simfan is just determined to be penniless. He won't be the first.

21  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: A fun fact about billionaires. on: September 13, 2014, 07:39:56 pm
Hey, at least I never had the country invaded by Chinese people pretending to be aliens.
22  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Scottish independence - The Official Atlas Forum mock referendum on: September 13, 2014, 06:10:09 pm
23  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: A fun fact about billionaires. on: September 13, 2014, 05:40:27 pm
Psst, this is only for hedge fund managers.

Hedge fund managers are the only people who have cash incomes that large.

Since when do other earned assets not count as effective income? This wasn't stipulated. There are many others who earned much more in 2013 than the guys on your list.

That is true, but they saw larger increases in net worth rather than in terms of taxable income. We could only tax capital gains.

Perhaps I've missed a Senate debate that revolves around taxable income? I assumed you posted this as an out-of-the-blue defense/rebuttal against the notion that the accumulation of wealth to an extent is harmful to the economy. Yet those effects would be similar whether it is taxable or not - and perhaps, it could be argued that accumulation of non-taxable income is even riskier (due to there being no government mechanism that ensures some redistribution through taxes).

At any rate, we can't be sure how many billionaires or how many people earned a billion dollars last year in Atlasia, due to the fact that the country has taken a fundamentally different course over the past 10 years in regards to economic policy. This is why the office of Game Moderator is important.

The post was in reference to the proposal of a 100% on all income greater than $1 billion. Indeed, that is exactly why the office of GM is important. Alas, when I made steps towards doing just that, I was ousted by your party.

>molds unemployment numbers and other numbers to fit his own ideological/political agenda
>complains about politics elsewhere

>Thinks Marxism is a viable guide for economic policy-making in the 21st century
>Is literally the second most important person in the country at the point
>Seems surprised that someone adhering to mainstream economic thought would assume this has lead to economic catastrophe


Is there any reason to think that Atlasian policies would actually result in more taxable income by billionaires than IRL?


24  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Post Dissolution Elections: October 2012 on: September 13, 2014, 04:15:17 pm
I recall with fondness the days when I led a major political party.
25  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Government / Re: Energy for the Future Bill 2014 (Debating) on: September 13, 2014, 04:12:55 pm
I would just say nuclear energy is the long-term energy solution right in front of our noses.
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